What loot stage are you in?

1. Denial

I'm doing something wrong. Loot was fine a month ago. I have to change my army or my cup range. Maybe I'll ask for some advice on the forums.

2. Anger

How could SC ruin this game! I has having so much fun and just bought my 5th builder. They are so greedy! I'm going to go vent on the forums.

3. Bargaining

What can I do. Maybe make some suggestions on the forum? Make war better? Change the loot bonus? Oh if only an attack made enough to pay for my army, it might be ok. I could keep playing.

4. Depression

SC intentionally turned off the loot and they're never going to fix it. No point in raiding, I'll just run my collectors and maybe log in for my war attacks.

5. Acceptance

Ok, it's just another bad pay to win game. No big deal. Not the first one I quit, and won't be the last.

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I'd say I'm in late stage 3 to early stage 4.

ARE U KIDDING ME!!!????!! Loot is amazing! TH 8 at 1400-1600 range! Loot is amazing! Find 300-600k in less than 20 searches!

er .....


Getting on with it? :cool:

Only th10 and the odd th9 have an issue with loot according to what I've read. I'm only th8 and gold 3 has a decent amount of loot. I just barch those collectors, with a few wallbreakers on stand by if their storages are easily obtainable :cool:.

Poll would have helped...also a positive outlook on loot. Seems like th8 and below are saying good, while most late th9s and 10s are saying bad. so its split with the majority of players sitting in a sea of loot, but nothing to spend it all on or lose it all, or the more experienced, players of another age, who have been here the longest.

th9, no problem with loot here. doing 4-5 lavas a day

Another th9 with absolutely no problem with loot, i had to stop earlier because my storages were full

As a late th10 left doing heros and walls, I have just learned to live with the loot. When its terrible, I just do something else. I have learned not to keep raiding when loot is dry and also don't play much on the weekend as loot is generally the worst on the weekends, which is why I love weekend clan wars.

TH9. No loot problem for me. I have 5 builders but can only keep 4 busy or I'm busting at the seams with gold waiting 2-3 days for one to finish. Need to keep 1 builder free to spend the loot on walls instead of being trampled by TH 10s when my storages are completely full.

I play about 2-3 one-hour sessions a day.

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Originally Posted by Muraad11

Loot is amazing! TH 8 !

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:rolleyes:



Im pretty sure most people have given up. The game really isn't worth playing except for my clan members.

I am between your 1) and 2)...and it's exactly like you said,"...it was fine a month ago and then....farrrrrt."

♥♥♥ happened? :(

I call the ♥♥ on the guy who said that he does 4-5 lavas per day. Yeah....♥♥.

The thread assumes grief and I am not grieving so cannot answer.

I am using some of the energy I might have spent playing the game here explaining why I won't continue spending money playing the game.

Which is fine, and empowering. It may annoy some people, but after 18 months playing I have earned the right to state my opinion.

It was a five star game in the AppStore .... It is now 4.5.

I am not alone.

6. OMG LOOT EVERYWHERE.. need to jump on the forums and teach people how to farm storages.

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Originally Posted by Wendle

I'd say I'm in late stage 3 to early stage 4.

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6. The Force Awakens!

You start a new base. Now, when you see a base with 50K of each resource, you DANCE ALL OVER THAT THING.

Loot is OK.

Nice poll. Every option is negative. Yeah, that's unbiased...

I am a TH10, and the loots are okay. :cool:

I'm th9 and I have no problem finding loot. I'm in gold 2 and I'm not leaving. 200-300k of each on 15 skips. Loots great

TH9, had to stop farming twice this week because storages were full and all 5 builders and lab were busy.

All these people with no avatars and less than 500 posts saying loot is good...


I smell a conspiracy :rolleyes:

I simply moved up to Crystal 2 and barch every base I find that I can easily 50% for the league bonus no matter how little loot is offered. It only takes a few nexts to find a base this way. Loot is slow but steady. Not sure which of your stages that falls into (probably acceptance).

6: it's fine most of the time.

Built my first lava wall on Tuesday now i'm sitting with 10 lava walls.
Loot is always fine. Sometimes it's just OK but it's part of the game.
I'm raiding with 1/2 rax boosted depending on how long it took me to get my first abandoned base showed up on queue. I'm doing 2-3 lavas daily and usually ended with 250-300 attacks won per season.
For the side record i do BAM with giants in my CC for storage raids while upgrading my queen.

Edited : Actually the reason why most people who said loot is fine don't post much is because they are farming :)

The loot is fine... Th 9 at 1800-2100 is great, about 200k every other next,max i have found was 900k 50k DE was sweet!

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Originally Posted by colt240

The loot is fine... Th 9 at 1800-2100 is great, about 200k every other next,max i have found was 900k 50k DE was sweet!

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Wow, a base that offered 50K DE. That's about 10x more than I've ever seen, and I've had 1M+ raids (combined gold and elixir)

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Originally Posted by Wendle

1. Denial

I'm doing something wrong. Loot was fine a month ago. I have to change my army or my cup range. Maybe I'll ask for some advice on the forums.

2. Anger

How could SC ruin this game! I has having so much fun and just bought my 5th builder. They are so greedy! I'm going to go vent on the forums.

3. Bargaining

What can I do. Maybe make some suggestions on the forum? Make war better? Change the loot bonus? Oh if only an attack made enough to pay for my army, it might be ok. I could keep playing.

4. Depression

SC intentionally turned off the loot and they're never going to fix it. No point in raiding, I'll just run my collectors and maybe log in for my war attacks.

5. Acceptance

Ok, it's just another bad pay to win game. No big deal. Not the first one I quit, and won't be the last.

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I'd say I'm in late stage 3 to early stage 4.

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None, I just started my lvl 3 inferno tonight. 8M gold needed.

Been playing over 2 years and loot is absolutely horrible. I've pretty much given up, occasionally I try it but its so bad I usually just collect and log off.

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Originally Posted by Brett771

Been playing over 2 years and loot is absolutely horrible. I've pretty much given up, occasionally I try it but its so bad I usually just collect and log off.

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So you read forums of games you occasionally play? Just wondering...

None of the above. I find loot just fine. I don't see why so many people complain.

6. Overcome and Adapt

Raid for the loot bonus, attack weaker bases for 1-2 storages. Try to do anything besides adding to the multitude of complaints on the forums..

Can we have a separate sub-forum for loot so that we can see something else for a change in General :rolleyes:

I think evry th 1-8 should be in acceptance. Me, as a th 9, am still in that phase. Its not as bad as it could be.

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Originally Posted by Wendle

1. Denial

I'm doing something wrong. Loot was fine a month ago. I have to change my army or my cup range. Maybe I'll ask for some advice on the forums.

2. Anger

How could SC ruin this game! I has having so much fun and just bought my 5th builder. They are so greedy! I'm going to go vent on the forums.

3. Bargaining

What can I do. Maybe make some suggestions on the forum? Make war better? Change the loot bonus? Oh if only an attack made enough to pay for my army, it might be ok. I could keep playing.

4. Depression

SC intentionally turned off the loot and they're never going to fix it. No point in raiding, I'll just run my collectors and maybe log in for my war attacks.

5. Acceptance

Ok, it's just another bad pay to win game. No big deal. Not the first one I quit, and won't be the last.

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I'd say I'm in late stage 3 to early stage 4.

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Actually you're in the late stage of helplessness cycle. Three of the most known symptoms are :

1. Blame : consider him/herself as right and the other person/party as wrong.
2. Excuse : does not accept constructive and positive input from others.
3. Justify : always consider him/herself as the victim and other person/party as the root cause of his/her misery.

I'm saying this because perhaps i'm sick of people posting hate/depression posts on forums.
To be awfully honest i think you're the one who's doing it all wrong. Loot is always fine and will always be fine.
I'm not one of the mega farmers who play 16 hrs daily. All i do at most is 1-2 boosting sessions per day (1-2 rax depending on how long it took me to get my 1st abandoned base) to farm 3-6m gold and elixir per day. I'm done with legos and i'm doing lavas right now.
And seriously i'm not by myself. I'm in a clan of farmers who do 30k-50k donations per session (could be more because of war hoppers).

You know, instead of posting messages like one of these to attract your kin before moving from one "bad pay" game to the next why don't you learn to win like everyone else and do something more productive in life while having fun?

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Originally Posted by hotshot007

Can we have a separate sub-forum for loot so that we can see something else for a change in General :rolleyes:

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I'd like to see a separate forum for verified th10's. You may be tired of read about loot, but no more so than I am of reading about dropping lightning on DE storage, or how hard it is to raid DE.

Th9 loot is fine for me

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Originally Posted by hauw

Actually you're in the late stage of helplessness cycle. Three of the most known symptoms are :

1. Blame : consider him/herself as right and the other person/party as wrong.
2. Excuse : does not accept constructive and positive input from others.
3. Justify : always consider him/herself as the victim and other person/party as the root cause of his/her misery.

I'm saying this because perhaps i'm sick of people posting hate/depression posts on forums.
To be awfully honest i think you're the one who's doing it all wrong. Loot is always fine and will always be fine.
I'm not one of the mega farmers who play 16 hrs daily. All i do at most is 1-2 boosting sessions per day (1-2 rax depending on how long it took me to get my 1st abandoned base) to farm 3-6m gold and elixir per day. I'm done with legos and i'm doing lavas right now.
And seriously i'm not by myself. I'm in a clan of farmers who do 30k-50k donations per session (could be more because of war hoppers).

You know, instead of posting messages like one of these to attract your kin before moving from one "bad pay" game to the next why don't you learn to win like everyone else and do something more productive in life while having fun?

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lol. I can understand and appreciate that you're getting loot, but when someone differs in their findings you go fanboy mode and say "you're doing it wrong."

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Originally Posted by LordAmbreon

lol. I can understand and appreciate that you're getting loot, but when someone differs in their findings you go fanboy mode and say "you're doing it wrong."

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So what am i supposed to say, pls leave this game, or maybe, i think you should at least quit posting, or what?

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Originally Posted by hauw

I'm not one of the mega farmers who play 16 hrs daily. All i do at most is 1-2 boosting sessions per day (1-2 rax depending on how long it took me to get my 1st abandoned base) to farm 3-6m gold and elixir per day.

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You don't think playing 2 to 4 hours a day is playing a lot? I can see why we feel loot is different then because even at my most active, I could barely fit in 2 hours.

I could make at best about 1.5M per hour pre-summer as a th9. Now I'm lucky to even make 500K per hour boosting. I haven't tried in weeks. I was wrong about the list in that I really have given up. You're right about that. You could give me a signed promise that there are 1M/1M abandoned bases down at 1800 cups, and I wouldn't even go down there to check. I've just tried too many times.

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Originally Posted by Wendle

You don't think playing 2 to 4 hours a day is playing a lot? I can see why we feel loot is different then because even at my most active, I could barely fit in 2 hours.

I could make at best about 1.5M per hour pre-summer as a th9. Now I'm lucky to even make 500K per hour boosting. I haven't tried in weeks. I was wrong about the list in that I really have given up. You're right about that. You could give me a signed promise that there are 1M/1M abandoned bases down at 1800 cups, and I wouldn't even go down there to check. I've just tried too many times.

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1.5M per hour is a lot.
I don't really go down to 1800 cups. I hover around 1900-2100. Instead of aiming for 200k/200k bases or maybe 500k/500k base which might not show up after 10000 nexts i break even my search cost and army cost with league bonus and satisfy myself with 100k/100k. Occasionally the 200k/200k will pop up and hopefully 300k/300k. That sums up on how i get resources.

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Originally Posted by hauw

1.5M per hour is a lot.
I don't really go down to 1800 cups. I hover around 1900-2100. Instead of aiming for 200k/200k bases or maybe 500k/500k base which might not show up after 10000 nexts i break even my search cost and army cost with league bonus and satisfy myself with 100k/100k. Occasionally the 200k/200k will pop up and hopefully 300k/300k. That sums up on how i get resources.

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Sounds boring to me....

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Originally Posted by LordAmbreon

Sounds boring to me....

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If you don't like me buying lava walls while having a life and work and career and having fun at clash of clans with my clan mates maybe you should aswell as click the ignore button below my profile. Haters gonna hate hate hate.

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Originally Posted by hauw

If you don't like me buying lava walls while having a life and work and career and having fun at clash of clans with my clan mates maybe you should aswell as click the ignore button below my profile. Haters gonna hate hate hate.

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:confused: I don't hate you, I dislike your method of disregarding others simply because you have different findings than they do.

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Originally Posted by hauw

1.5M per hour is a lot.
I don't really go down to 1800 cups. I hover around 1900-2100. Instead of aiming for 200k/200k bases or maybe 500k/500k base which might not show up after 10000 nexts i break even my search cost and army cost with league bonus and satisfy myself with 100k/100k. Occasionally the 200k/200k will pop up and hopefully 300k/300k. That sums up on how i get resources.

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I guess that's the difference. I considered 1.5M per hour reasonable for a th9. It is less reasonable for a th10, and 500K per hour is in my mind unworkable as a th10. I just won't boost and play for that kind of return. I'm not even matching what I get in a day from collectors.

It sounds like you're doing a bit better than 500K per hour. I've been from 1700 through 2600, and haven't been able to find anyplace where I would consider boosting, so I raid maybe once or twice a day. I did more tonight because of this thread, and have been averaging 65/65 or 130/130 with bonus.

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Originally Posted by Wendle

I guess that's the difference. I considered 1.5M per hour reasonable for a th9. It is less reasonable for a th10, and 500K per hour is in my mind unworkable as a th10. I just won't boost and play for that kind of return. I'm not even matching what I get in a day from collectors.

It sounds like you're doing a bit better than 500K per hour. I've been from 1700 through 2600, and haven't been able to find anyplace where I would consider boosting, so I raid maybe once or twice a day. I did more tonight because of this thread, and have been averaging 65/65 or 130/130 with bonus.

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Well yes i do. Around 1.1m with 1 rax boosted and could go to 1.5m with 2 raxes boosted.
Try aiming for lower resources, they show up more often and use cheap army. I you could make 100k/100k with half your army camp that's 200k/200k already.

Well I'm farming 4 lv11 walls a day [i don't go higher because i am happy with this], COMBINED without boosting barracks so go figure...

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Originally Posted by JoshK

Well I'm farming 4 lv11 walls a day [i don't go higher because i am happy with this], COMBINED without boosting barracks so go figure...

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Great! How did you do that?

Where's the joyous stage? 'Cause that's where I am.

Whutt, woke up to see Kubbler-Ross? Going back to sleep

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Originally Posted by JoshK

Well I'm farming 4 lv11 walls a day [i don't go higher because i am happy with this], COMBINED without boosting barracks so go figure...

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You're farming 16 million per day un Boosted? Even if we assume the completely unrealistic figure of 4 million per hour, you play 4 hours a day?

I am at stage 5, acceptance. I know loot could be better, but, I can live it/don't care about current loot levels.
If I find a base with 130k/130K loot my reaction is essitally this:
Attachment 79510
(mainly due to the loot bouns at crystal 1-2)

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Originally Posted by LordAmbreon

You're farming 16 million per day un Boosted? Even if we assume the completely unrealistic figure of 4 million per hour, you play 4 hours a day?

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Yes, I am currently working at home so I am able to raid well in champ league as it fits more towards my situation.

In champ league the 300-400k storages are more plentiful up here and more exposed, compared to those in lower level leagues where they seem to be more protected near infernos and I find myself using less spells up here as I don't always go in deep. Reason that is people are more focused... on cups, hence the storage is nothing but more of a buffer. Use a bam army, queue 2/2/2 barb/archer/minions and you'll be surprised at 15 minutes per raid for a TH10 unboosted is relatively ok for me. On average my raids so far showing 300k at the minimum off active storage bases.

Reason I'm using BAM is because,
1) i have no use for DE anymore. all my lab/heroes are maxed. all thats left for me is walls so I rather throw all that DE and make use of 6 barracks fully.
2) 5 minute faster training time over a 2/2 barb/archer army queued. with 10 minions [20 minutes]. i don't really see much difference but for me it's better.

Rarely see dead bases, but that's fine with me. I'm happy for active storage raids because I'm not too dependent on inactives.

At least there's less nexting to do up here in champ league [50 at the worst if I recall] vs the lower level leagues where I waste even more nexting for even a 125-150k minimum raid.

Personally lower league farming is good only if you can boost your barracks as more easy bases and spend hours and hours staring at your screen => more opportunity to squeeze out more loot at a quicker pace off easier people. But for me I can't boost barracks like that while working as it's not viable for my kind of situation. I need to work so 15 minute is just nice enough for me to have a small break before commencing another raid.

Normally I always do at least 2 gold walls followed by 2 elixir walls a day and maybe raid till my storage are around 1-2m then log off. So that's pretty consistent and equal to what I really want. If I really have to boost I'll limit myself to archer queen only as she's more reliable for getting 50% whereas my kings love to run into suicide :P. And possibly spells, but i only have lightning/zaps if i really am struggling to get 50% in a certain situation w/o harming AQ too much.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoshK

Yes, I am currently working at home so I am able to raid well in champ league as it fits more towards my situation.

In champ league the 300-400k storages are more plentiful up here and more exposed, compared to those in lower level leagues where they seem to be more protected near infernos and I find myself using less spells up here as I don't always go in deep. Reason that is people are more focused... on cups, hence the storage is nothing but more of a buffer. Use a bam army, queue 2/2/2 barb/archer/minions and you'll be surprised at 15 minutes per raid for a TH10 unboosted is relatively ok for me. On average my raids so far showing 300k at the minimum off active storage bases.

Rarely see dead bases, but that's fine with me. I'm happy for active storage raids because I'm not too dependent on inactives.

At least there's less nexting to do up here in champ league [50 at the worst if I recall] vs the lower level leagues where I waste even more nexting for even a 125-150k minimum raid.

Personally lower league farming is good only if you can boost your barracks as more easy bases and spend hours and hours staring at your screen => more opportunity to squeeze out more loot at a quicker pace off easier people. But for me I can't boost barracks like that while working as it's not viable for my kind of situation. I need to work so 15 minute is just nice enough for me to have a small break before commencing another raid.

Normally I always do at least 2 gold walls followed by 2 elixir walls a day and maybe raid till my storage are around 1-2m then log off. So that's pretty consistent and equal to what I really want.

I don't really track the hours played as i'm not boosting barracks, but I'd guess it's around 6-7 hours or so. In and out. You can say boost barracks, and decrease that time by 4.

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Figured as much. I suppose you've also maxed your base and heroes.
Nowadays people are getting better and better at raiding i suppose.

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Originally Posted by hauw

Figured as much. I suppose you've also maxed your base and heroes.
Nowadays people are getting better and better at raiding i suppose.

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(zaps = level 11 walls)

I've maxed out my defenses pretty much and heroes and lab. I felt that the defense alone was more important than grinding out walls and negating stationary defenses as a whole. Only thing left for me is to complete zaps pretty much :/, so far I'm at 80/250. May slow down to 2 a day when I hit 200 zaps or so as that's when I've done pretty much most of my base already.

On a sidenote; the elixir update helped a lot of what was personally I think is too excessive as a resource. This point, is what I forgot to add inside my reply. Else I'll only be doing 2 zaps a day if gold was the only option... :(

So, judging by this thread, loot is AWESOME!!
I'm now going to play again and smash all that 500k gold bases ;)

Really?

Everything about every loot thread is negative these days, and don't get me started on those LIARS who say the loot is fine..

Btw, loot is fine for me :) Just dropped to [insert league of choice here]* and finding innactive after innactive. "You should't have to rely on innactives!" I don't, but it sure is nice when I can find one every time I need to raid, in little time too. Not saying in 5 skips, but no where near the stupid amounts of time people have been saying.

Maybe it is in peoples heads... Maybe it was hyped up so much everyone began to believe in it.. Maybe there was a problem for a bit, straight after the update, which SC admitted could happen and would need some time to settle... Maybe... Who knows.

*No, I won't tell you my league, go find the loot yourself.

Th10 in m2-m3 having no problem with loot.

Full storages, waiting on builders and lab.

Adultsclashtoo
Spyro

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Originally Posted by TheWompyOverlord

6. Overcome and Adapt

Raid for the loot bonus, attack weaker bases for 1-2 storages. Try to do anything besides adding to the multitude of complaints on the forums..

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This reminds me of a story.....

The parents of their first child are really worried because their kid is two years old and hasn't spoken a single word.

So they take him to speech therapists and doctors and no one can figure out why he won't talk.

Another year goes past and he hasn't said a single word. Then one day they are sitting at the dinner table and the child suddenly says "food's bad".

Amazed, they hug him crying tears of joy "why have you never spoken before?" Asks the father.

"food's never been bad before" the child replies.

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Originally Posted by hauw

Well yes i do. Around 1.1m with 1 rax boosted and could go to 1.5m with 2 raxes boosted.
Try aiming for lower resources, they show up more often and use cheap army. I you could make 100k/100k with half your army camp that's 200k/200k already.

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Now I have no idea what you're talking about. Cheap resources? I find a collector raid maybe one time in 1000 nexts. I survive by finding storage raids where I can take enough to pay for a BARCH army. Are you th10, and do you play in the U.S.? If so, I don't get it. It's like we're playing two different games.

If I could make 1.5M an hour with BARCH boosted, I'd be playing right now instead of trying to change the situation though the forums.

While you are complaining on the forums, I am finding lots of collector raids in Crystal 3. If you really think that complaining on the forums will fix your loot, then I am really sorry for you.

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Originally Posted by Alex78

While you are complaining on the forums, I am finding lots of collector raids in Crystal 3. If you really think that complaining on the forums will fix your loot, then I am really sorry for you.

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I just came back from crystal 1. Picked up a loss and got 70K gold and 690 elixir. You'll say it's because I'm a poor player. The actual reason is because I'm desperate for anything and have to take chances.

That was after about 40 nexts too. I used two spells for about 60K, and a BARCH army for another 65K, and 40K in nexts.

So grand total:
gained 30K gold
lost 104K elixir

What a fun game! Yes, I'm getting off the forums and going right back in to play some more.

edit: been off the game for 1 minute and already got the notice I've been raided.

0. Haven't played in a couple of months. I want to though and I could but I don't want to be one of those guys who gets angry with the loot. :)

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Originally Posted by Wendle

I just came back from crystal 1. Picked up a loss and got 70K gold and 690 elixir. You'll say it's because I'm a poor player. The actual reason is because I'm desperate for anything and have to take chances.

That was after about 40 nexts too. I used two spells for about 60K, and a BARCH army for another 65K, and 40K in nexts.

So grand total:
gained 30K gold
lost 104K elixir

What a fun game! Yes, I'm getting off the forums and going right back in to play some more.

edit: been off the game for 1 minute and already got the notice I've been raided.

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May I ask what TH level you are?
Also, if you think that attacking once and logging off can make you profit, then you are really bad at this game. If you expect at least a 200k/200k collector raid every 40 nexts it's your problem. There are days when loot is good and loot is bad. Try different trophy ranges, because, as you said, you are desperate (it's only a game btw) and taking any chances.

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Originally Posted by Harrisman24

Really?

Everything about every loot thread is negative these days, and don't get me started on those LIARS who say the loot is fine..

Btw, loot is fine for me :) Just dropped to [insert league of choice here]* and finding innactive after innactive. "You should't have to rely on innactives!" I don't, but it sure is nice when I can find one every time I need to raid, in little time too. Not saying in 5 skips, but no where near the stupid amounts of time people have been saying.

Maybe it is in peoples heads... Maybe it was hyped up so much everyone began to believe in it.. Maybe there was a problem for a bit, straight after the update, which SC admitted could happen and would need some time to settle... Maybe... Who knows.

*No, I won't tell you my league, go find the loot yourself.

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I'm really confused....

im in stage 7, loot is awesome

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Originally Posted by LordAmbreon

I'm really confused....

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Some was sarcasm, which can be lost easily over text.

Next time I shall mark my sarcasm more clearly lol.

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Originally Posted by Alex78

May I ask what TH level you are?
Also, if you think that attacking once and logging off can make you profit, then you are really bad at this game. If you expect at least a 200k/200k collector raid every 40 nexts it's your problem. There are days when loot is good and loot is bad. Try different trophy ranges, because, as you said, you are desperate (it's only a game btw) and taking any chances.

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I am th10. Just to recap, last spring, I was bossting away as th9 getting 1.5M per hour no problem. Also, buried above I mentioned being everywhere from 1700 to 2600 as a th10 and consistently find nothing. I don't attack once and log off because I think it's a good way to make loot. I attack once and log off because there's no point in continuing to play.

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Originally Posted by LordAmbreon

You're farming 16 million per day un Boosted? Even if we assume the completely unrealistic figure of 4 million per hour, you play 4 hours a day?

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Dude, where have you been? We can upgrade walls with elixir now, you know. He probably just makes 8m of each resource.

I'm in the gigantic profit stage. loot is great at 3600.

Th10s will find way more loot than they can hold on to in master2-3, assuming you are not gemming build times.

If you are a th10 trying to find loot at gold and crystal leagues then you will definitely think loot is bad.

Adultsclashtoo
Spyro