Please add this to clan wars asap. I don't want my friends to hate me

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Originally Posted by TheWompyOverlord

I believe an opt in/out of cw button has been ruled out by supercell. As a clan it should be all or nothing!

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Ive seen posts in here about "oh supercell said this" and "oh supercell said that"

Anybody have any sources...some type of evidence...anything?
If they dont want to do it then itd be nice to know we are wasting our time.

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Originally Posted by Stickerz

Having capable and effective war roster would reduce the mismatched wars.

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If you can't create a "capable and effective war roster" without this feature, you don't deserve to win.

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Originally Posted by Stickerz

A. Wars can be unbalanced due to human error, if a few people suck at attacking, thats not taken into the formula or whatever, therefore they are worth less in reality than what the game rates them as.

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You would like to handicap clans that have skilled attackers from top to bottom somehow? The whole point of clan wars is matching up two clans that look like each other on paper (offensive power and defensive strength) and seeing which one has more skilled attackers. Of course players that look good on paper but can't attack well are "worth less in reality than what the game rates them as." This is the most bizarre post I've ever seen.

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Originally Posted by Stickerz

B. If I could choose the roster, (I can in-fact do this by kicking people and re-inviting them afterwards, but lets look from the perspective of someone who doesn't want it to come to that)(Aka someone who is "Soft"-Kruzkal)

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You admit that you have the power to choose your roster, but "don't want it to come to that." I agree with Kruzkal that this makes you soft, and believe you should live with the consequences if you're unable to cut players you don't want on your war roster.

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Originally Posted by Stickerz

I know these players are capable, therefore the clan war ranking system more accurately reflects their ability to contribute to the war, and that would bring us into a more balanced war.

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This is one reason why I imagine SC opposes the idea. They don't want someone like you deciding who is "capable" of fighting in war, and who isn't.

This is SC's official stance on the matter, as of last September:

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Originally Posted by SuperSteve[Supercell]

Hey Guys,

We've talked A LOT about adding an opt-out feature in Clan Wars and it's not currently in the cards. At this point, we just haven't found the right solution that fits Clash how it should.

We always try to avoid unnecessary complexity in our feature design and strive for features that work consistently and simply for all players. Some players would be thrilled with an opt-out system, but others would prefer things like opt-in, leader-chooses, variable team sizes, or other solutions. Also, letting players pick-and-choose what components of their clan experience they participate in is not a design philosophy we support. When you're in a clan, you should all be in it together! Even further, implementing a system that can enable undue pressure on players ("Opt out or we'll kick you" or "Give me Crab Claws or you can't come to war with us") falls far short of this mark.

That being said, we're in favor of adding more control and meaningful direction to Clan Wars. When we look into the next batch of Clan Wars features, that will be the time to reconsider things like opt-out systems, and possibly come up with better solutions that encourage everyone in their Clan to stick together and participate no matter what. We'll see what happens!

We'll keep tabs on any feedback and ideas you guys come up with for future Clan Wars improvements. Keep the feedback coming.

Cheers,

Steve

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Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood

If you can't create a "capable and effective war roster" without this feature, you don't deserve to win.



You would like to handicap clans that have skilled attackers from top to bottom somehow? The whole point of clan wars is matching up two clans that look like each other on paper (offensive power and defensive strength) and seeing which one has more skilled attackers. Of course players that look good on paper but can't attack well are "worth less in reality than what the game rates them as." This is the most bizarre post I've ever seen.



You admit that you have the power to choose your roster, but "don't want it to come to that." I agree with Kruzkal that this makes you soft, and believe you should live with the consequences if you're unable to cut players you don't want on your war roster.



This is one reason why I imagine SC opposes the idea. They don't want someone like you deciding who is "capable" of fighting in war, and who isn't.

This is SC's official stance on the matter, as of last September:

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JohnnyBGood, regarding SuperSteves post, I suggest you go back and read it. He does not say Supercell is opposed to it. he in fact says they are still in the processes considering how to implement it and that they are continuing to monitor our feedback. This is very good reason for all these people to speak up.

So we have all these many people speaking up and you jumping on every one of their posts telling them they are 'wrong' or even calling them 'soft'. Is it really necessary to be derogatory or do you have something better to offer than that they see things 'wrong' or are 'soft'. Is it not possible that their lives just work differently than yours? Is it not possible that what they want to get out of the game might be different from what you are seeking to get back?

Regardless of what you, they or anyone else wants to get out of this game, is not the important thing that they are trying to get something out of it? Is it not good that each one of them is added to Supercell/COC's customer base? How would it (and especially since polls show that the folks that want this are a 75-80% majority) affect Supercell and COC if all those people really did chose to take themselves and their 'soft' way of seeing things out of the picture? When you say they 'deserve to lose' what exactly are you suggesting that they should do instead? If they have to chose between quitting school, quitting their jobs, or quitting this game which choice are you suggesting?

Earlier in this thread I made the below prediction and it appears to have proven correct...

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Originally Posted by rwelshjr

I know there is the 'suck it up pal and get your priorities straight' contingent that will say those guys should do get with the program or be kicked as coc losers. But there actually are folks that do put their families, work , and/or school ahead of their video gaming in their life priorities. Supercell wants to cater to that crowd too since they are the ones that are going to have money for gems.

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Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood

You admit that you have the power to choose your roster, but "don't want it to come to that." I agree with Kruzkal that this makes you soft, and believe you should live with the consequences if you're unable to cut players you don't want on your war roster.

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Honestly how many phones do you go through on average per month ruling with that iron fist of yours?

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Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood

This is one reason why I imagine SC opposes the idea. They don't want someone like you deciding who is "capable" of fighting in war, and who isn't.

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So this isnt already going on when you kick and re-invite people?

Whats actually bizarre is that you attempt to argue against adding a feature that you already reap the benefits of.
"You shouldn't be able to pick who goes to war...brb gotta kick these people real quick so I can start my clan war search with people that I determine to be capable of fighting in war" -JohnnyBGood

And please amuse me and go into detail about what exactly you mean by "people like you". Are you trying to imply that you are somehow better suited than I and that you have the intellectual prowess to choose who goes to war and its something that I lack?

And just to point it out, according to that post they are in favor of adding more control and meaning to clan wars, and they are going to reconsider this subject when the time comes.

Which means all of us here complaining about it is completely warranted lol.
Because maybe a dev will see it and go "oh yeah we should do that"

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Originally Posted by Stickerz

Ive seen posts in here about "oh supercell said this" and "oh supercell said that"

Anybody have any sources...some type of evidence...anything?
If they dont want to do it then itd be nice to know we are wasting our time.

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Supercell said it was under consideration, They did not say it was ruled out. All those guys saying 'Supercell has ruled it out' are hanging their hats on how a single post did not say it was about to happen in the next update. (But that was a few updates ago so who knows what it means this far down the road?)

Please don't take my word for it though. If you go up a couple posts one such gentleman was kind enough to share the post in question (the one from SuperSteve). You are free to read it yourself and draw your own conclusion.

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Originally Posted by rwelshjr

JohnnyBGood, regarding SuperSteves post, I suggest you go back and read it. He does not say Supercell is opposed to it. he in fact says they are still in the processes considering how to implement it and that they are continuing to monitor our feedback. This is very good reason for all these people to speak up.

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I suggest you do the same. Here are the sentences that stand out to me:

"Also, letting players pick-and-choose what components of their clan experience they participate in is not a design philosophy we support. When you're in a clan, you should all be in it together! Even further, implementing a system that can enable undue pressure on players ("Opt out or we'll kick you" or "Give me Crab Claws or you can't come to war with us") falls far short of this mark."

You make it sound like SC agrees with the idea, and just needs to decide how it should be implemented, which does not appear to be the case.

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Originally Posted by rwelshjr

So we have all these many people speaking up and you jumping on every one of their posts telling them they are 'wrong' or even calling them 'soft'.

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You copy and paste your idea for an opt-out system in virtually every thread that raise the issue; what's the difference? I don't tell all posters they are "wrong" for wanting it, and I don't know what else to call someone that wants to cut weak attackers from their war roster but doesn't have it in themselves to do so, do you? I can think of several less pleasant alternatives, however...

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Originally Posted by rwelshjr

Is it not possible that their lives just work differently than yours? Is it not possible that what they want to get out of the game might be different from what you are seeking to get back?

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Everyone leads different lives, but I assume most want the same thing out of clan wars, and that is to win! Some of us take this more seriously than others, and are willing to do what it takes to be successful under the current system.

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Originally Posted by rwelshjr

Regardless of what you, they or anyone else wants to get out of this game, is not the important thing that they are trying to get something out of it?

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I don't spend a great deal of time thinking about what those outside of my clan get out of this game. I suppose they find it fun, or they wouldn't be playing.

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Originally Posted by rwelshjr

Is it not good that each one of them is added to Supercell/COC's customer base? How would it (and especially since polls show that the folks that want this are a 75-80% majority) affect Supercell and COC if all those people really did chose to take themselves and their 'soft' way of seeing things out of the picture?

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I don't see this happening, and apparently, neither does Supercell. Don't you think they would implement this system overnight if loads of players were willing to walk away over it? I think the current system puts more pressure on players to remain active than one that allows players to sit on clan rosters without fully participating in clan activities, and I imagine Supercell feels the same.

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Originally Posted by rwelshjr

When you say they 'deserve to lose' what exactly are you suggesting that they should do instead?

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I'm suggesting they figure out how to win under the current system, instead of asking Supercell to make it possible for clans to be filled with players that are not "war ready."

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Originally Posted by rwelshjr

If they have to chose between quitting school, quitting their jobs, or quitting this game which choice are you suggesting?

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Oh please, stop being so dramatic. Most of us manage to stay in school and/or stay employed while playing this game. If some players find it impossible to do so, I suggest they delete the app until they learn some time management skills. Of course, players in my clan are welcome to take a break from the game and come back to the clan at any time.

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Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood

I suggest you do the same. Here are the sentences that stand out to me:

"Also, letting players pick-and-choose what components of their clan experience they participate in is not a design philosophy we support. When you're in a clan, you should all be in it together! Even further, implementing a system that can enable undue pressure on players ("Opt out or we'll kick you" or "Give me Crab Claws or you can't come to war with us") falls far short of this mark."

You make it sound like SC agrees with the idea, and just needs to decide how it should be implemented, which does not appear to be the case.



You copy and paste your idea for an opt-out system in virtually every thread that raise the issue; what's the difference? I don't tell all posters they are "wrong" for wanting it, and I don't know what else to call someone that wants to cut weak attackers from their war roster but doesn't have it in themselves to do so, do you? I can think of several less pleasant alternatives, however...



Everyone leads different lives, but I assume most want the same thing out of clan wars, and that is to win! Some of us take this more seriously than others, and are willing to do what it takes to be successful under the current system.



I don't spend a great deal of time thinking about what those outside of my clan get out of this game. I suppose they find it fun, or they wouldn't be playing.



I don't see this happening, and apparently, neither does Supercell. Don't you think they would implement this system overnight if loads of players were willing to walk away over it? I think the current system puts more pressure on players to remain active than one that allows players to sit on clan rosters without fully participating in clan activities, and I imagine Supercell feels the same.



I'm suggesting they figure out how to win under the current system, instead of asking Supercell to make it possible for clans to be filled with players that are not "war ready."



Oh please, stop being so dramatic. Most of us manage to stay in school and/or stay employed while playing this game. If some players find it impossible to do so, I suggest they delete the app until they learn some time management skills. Of course, players in my clan are welcome to take a break from the game and come back to the clan at any time.

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And there we have it. That is what you think. And the rest of this chain is what everyone else thinks. Sorry.

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Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood

You copy and paste your idea for an opt-out system in virtually every thread that raise the issue; what's the difference?
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LOL, indeed I do. Indeed I do. Indeed I do. Without apology too. And yes, I do find soooo many opportunities to do this, a point which speaks to how badly needed this idea really is. I just sign in every now and again and the chances are there waiting for me pretty much every time, often several. And every time I do its followed by a chorus of voices saying they agree and that it describes exactly what is needed. (Or mostly, a couple guys have offered variations of the idea even as they do like the overall concept) I keep it in a Microsoft Word document on my desktop so I can get it easily. I even did a poll asking how many would like to see it and it was a 76% majority that wanted it. Given that it has that much support I should certainly get it out as much as possible.

here let me show you..

How it should work...

There should be a button (it can be a new one or the war shield can be modified) that toggles a player as in or out.

Access to hit the button to toggle should go to the leader and the player in question.
---- individual players cannot opt each other in or out
---- its an argument either way to give it to co as well - Good for clans where co is a management job, bad for clans that give it out like candy. (I consider the latter to be a sign of a bad leader)
---- A leader who abuses authority to opt guys in against their wishes are really just hurting their own selves for how they are adding a risk to their war participation. (the guy might then just not attack anyhow, if not seeing eye to eye with leader he wont care)
---- A leader opting a guy out against his wishes has that prerogative to decide who he wants in his war. And its still nicer than just kicking the guy like happens now.

The status of a player is only a factor right at the time a war starts. Instead of just selecting all eligible players from the total population it will just be all eligible players from the opted in group.
---- Can even implement by leveraging the existing eligibility functionality that currently is only driven by a timer.

After that everything works the same. The list of warriors from the clan is rounded to an even 5 via the existing logic and then the matchmaking calculation takes place also using the existing logic.

A player joins a clan with his eligibility set the same way it is today. (He is in unless there is a timer)


Things that would not happen -
...A player cannot add themselves to a war after the fact. If they change their status during a war it makes no difference until the next war when that status is read at startup.
...This would not serve as a way to replace members that take off during war. if they do that then there is the same affect on the war as there is today. Unused attacks stay unused. (it will never change that this just stinks when guys pull that stunt)

"When we look into the next batch of Clan Wars features, that will be the time to reconsider things like opt-out systems, and possibly come up with better solutions that encourage everyone in their Clan to stick together and participate no matter what. We'll see what happens!"

Not guaranteed in, not ruled out. neither is stated here.

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Originally Posted by Jietoh

So you admit that clan wars will radically change from an activity where the whole clan must actively participate in order to achieve optimum results to something where only the top 10-20 players in the clan must actively participate in order to achieve optimum results and you're OK with that?

I'm not.

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I never said that I'm okay with it. I just said that some clans would do that if they could. I'm not a big fan of letting everyone opt out anyways. The main point of that quote was to say that opt out would make matches more balanced on average in terms of base strength.

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Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood

I suggest you do the same. Here are the sentences that stand out to me:

"Also, letting players pick-and-choose what components of their clan experience they participate in is not a design philosophy we support. When you're in a clan, you should all be in it together! Even further, implementing a system that can enable undue pressure on players ("Opt out or we'll kick you" or "Give me Crab Claws or you can't come to war with us") falls far short of this mark."

You make it sound like SC agrees with the idea, and just needs to decide how it should be implemented, which does not appear to be the case.

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Your idea of kicking people goes against SC's plans too

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Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood

The leader can choose war participants. If he thinks a player is not "war ready," all he has to do is kick. If he wants them back, all he has to do is invite from clan chat 30 seconds later.

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Originally Posted by Stickerz

Honestly how many phones do you go through on average per month ruling with that iron fist of yours?

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Zero. There is no need to rule with an iron fist when all members of the clan are on the same page.

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Originally Posted by Stickerz

Whats actually bizarre is that you attempt to argue against adding a feature that you already reap the benefits of.

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The feature is unnecessary, because my clan has done the work to be "war ready" at all times.

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Originally Posted by Stickerz

"You shouldn't be able to pick who goes to war...brb gotta kick these people real quick so I can start my clan war search with people that I determine to be capable of fighting in war" -JohnnyBGood

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All members of my clan are capable of fighting in war, or they would not be members. The only members that I remove before matchmaking are those that request to be dropped for one reason or another. There are never more than 1-2 members that want out (if any), so it's not a very difficult task to kick/invite.

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Originally Posted by Stickerz

And please amuse me and go into detail about what exactly you mean by "people like you". Are you trying to imply that you are somehow better suited than I and that you have the intellectual prowess to choose who goes to war and its something that I lack?

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I'll let readers of this thread decide for themselves which of us possesses greater intellectual prowess, though remember, you are the one complaining about not being able to make your clan work, not me.

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Originally Posted by rwelshjr

Not guaranteed in, not ruled out. neither is stated here.

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I never said it was ruled out, but it sure doesn't sound like SC agrees with your proposal. That said, if they do implement it, I certainly won't cry about it all over the forum.

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Originally Posted by rwelshjr

Regardless of what you, they or anyone else wants to get out of this game, is not the important thing that they are trying to get something out of it? Is it not good that each one of them is added to Supercell/COC's customer base? How would it (and especially since polls show that the folks that want this are a 75-80% majority) affect Supercell and COC if all those people really did chose to take themselves and their 'soft' way of seeing things out of the picture? .

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Please don't use polls performed on this website as a true or fair reflection of what the rest of the clash of clans players thinks, you have to factor in the following:

• This game is played around the world by people that may not speak english. In fact based on the necessity of different languages you can access this game through and the amount of flags there are for decorations, it would be a fair assumption that the majority of clash of clans players do not speak english.
• The amount of players actually using this forum or even knowing about it's existence. The player base represented here is very small in comparison to the actual clash of clans player base.
• Most if not all people are here because of a problem and they seek a solution, be it they are new and want some help with base construction, farming, attack strategies, clan management or whatever else everyone came to this website to seek a solution to their problems.
• This is clearly evident when most of the new threads on this website started by new people are normally complaining about or requesting something.
• It's also common marketing knowledge that people are more likely to complain about a product than to praise it.
• It's a poll on the internet anyone can make multiple accounts to rig the poll in their favour. Generally only people with a motive would do so, those that want change will have the biggest motivation.

Even of the polls leave out those demographics, there's still more evidence that opt out is favored by the majority. Whether the majority is right is a different question and wasn't talked about in this point

Complaints and requests are not necessarily a bad thing because the existence of the idea sub forum suggests that request are fine and SC wants feedback. The poll helps summarize the general opinion

Here's a public poll that would interest you then for the voting conspiracy (which isn't farfetched). Yeah lots of Yes people have no post but there's probably more Yes than No if single digit posters are excluded. Plus it seems like some people have a big motivation to have have the idea added so it could be assumed that Nos are inflated a bit too
http://forum.supercell.net/poll.php?...do=showresults

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Originally Posted by Sirix

Even of the polls leave out those demographics, there's still more evidence that opt out is favored by the majority. Whether the majority is right is a different question and wasn't talked about in this point

Poll participants are generally selected from groups which represents certain demographics to give a broader picture it will include people that are indifferent about whatever subject matter that the poll is on. Polls conducted on the internet on the other hand that are not mandatory will only have participants that are interested one way or another.

So your poll will miss the following participants:

• Those indifferent to the proposition
• Those who are opposed to the idea and avoid threads/polls like a plague
• Your poll may miss some people who support the idea that just missed the poll but chances of that are slimmer than the above two

I would be curious to know where you get your evidence that opt out is favoured by the majority of the clash of clans playing population.

Complaints and requests are not necessarily a bad thing because the existence of the idea sub forum suggests that request are fine and SC wants feedback. The poll helps summarize the general opinion

Agreed complaint and requests are not necessarily a bad thing. I used the "complaining and requesting" to establish the basis of why most people would come here in the first place, generally if there is no problem/issue great or small most people won't go to a forum. From that you can identify the frame of mind most posters are in, that of wanting change or wanting help (not necessarily a bad thing). So having polls which favours change one way or another is going to be almost guaranteed.

Here's a public poll that would interest you then for the voting conspiracy (which isn't farfetched). Yeah lots of Yes people have no post but there's probably more Yes than No if single digit posters are excluded. Plus it seems like some people have a big motivation to have have the idea added so it could be assumed that Nos are inflated a bit too
http://forum.supercell.net/poll.php?...do=showresults

I wouldn't dis the idea that the "no people" would be motivated to would do the same thing. But I would say the motivation levels for people who want change would be stronger than the ones who don't. The ones who don't want change don't need to do much, its always going to be up to the side who wants change to convince all parties involved that it is necessary and that it will benefit all involved.

This is the reason why the threads stating they want opt in/out outnumbers the threads opposing the idea. This is also the reason why polls will attract the people that want the change more than the people that don't. Which also indicates that any polls conducted on this website will be skewed.

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Response in bold.

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Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood

Zero. There is no need to rule with an iron fist when all members of the clan are on the same page.



The feature is unnecessary, because my clan has done the work to be "war ready" at all times.



All members of my clan are capable of fighting in war, or they would not be members. The only members that I remove before matchmaking are those that request to be dropped for one reason or another. There are never more than 1-2 members that want out (if any), so it's not a very difficult task to kick/invite.

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Missing the points again son. So busy declaring your superiority that its going right over your head.

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Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood

I'll let readers of this thread decide for themselves which of us possesses greater intellectual prowess, though remember, you are the one complaining about not being able to make your clan work, not me.

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Fair enough. It appears to be the other guy by a margin. (LOL, flame me son, I am sure you will)

Moderators - You should just close this one. The constructive discussion has broken down. A new thread for this will pop up soon enough and at their beginning they are always constructive. Its just later you will get some guy that's just to emotionally invested in his own ideas that starts disrespecting those of others and starts flaming. (And then the rest of us start using him for sport and so it goes...)

This is a good idea ! Choosing people for war will ensure that everyone attacks and gets stars. Simple idea, so it should be there in the next update.

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Originally Posted by JKL2207

Please don't use polls performed on this website as a true or fair reflection of what the rest of the clash of clans players thinks, you have to factor in the following:

• This game is played around the world by people that may not speak english. In fact based on the necessity of different languages you can access this game through and the amount of flags there are for decorations, it would be a fair assumption that the majority of clash of clans players do not speak english.
• The amount of players actually using this forum or even knowing about it's existence. The player base represented here is very small in comparison to the actual clash of clans player base.
• Most if not all people are here because of a problem and they seek a solution, be it they are new and want some help with base construction, farming, attack strategies, clan management or whatever else everyone came to this website to seek a solution to their problems.
• This is clearly evident when most of the new threads on this website started by new people are normally complaining about or requesting something.
• It's also common marketing knowledge that people are more likely to complain about a product than to praise it.
• It's a poll on the internet anyone can make multiple accounts to rig the poll in their favour. Generally only people with a motive would do so, those that want change will have the biggest motivation.

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Disagree, at this point there have been many polls and being multilingual I have had the chance to see that this comes up in different languages too. Some of these polls have had hundreds of participants. Some have also offered the option of saying 'indifferent' (which does get a sizable amount of votes, more than say they are against) At this point the sample size is big enough that the 76% number is pretty solid. In fact, the way all these different polls seem to come in right around the same number no matter where or how you ask it just shows how solid it is.

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Originally Posted by rwelshjr

Moderators - You should just close this one. The constructive discussion has broken down. A

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I agree
10 arguments