Spell Defence/Fizzle Trap

Branching off of one of yesterday's conversations as requested without reviving a necro thread . . .

The idea here is to provide a level of defense against spells. Not to stop them outright or nerf them directly but to provide a form of defense against the only indefensible weapon in the game, which also happens to be the only one you can drop anywhere on the map.

Fizzle Trap
When a spell is dropped in the trigger radius the fizzle trap attempts to interrupt any spell dropped within its radius.
One available at TH9
lvl2 trap available at TH10 (still only one trap)
lvl1 5 second duration
lvl2 8 second duration
Trigger radius the same as a lightning spell
Effect Radius the same as a lightning spell

I see three solid options for how the fizzle mechanic can work to start the conversation. Other ideas are of course welcome.
1) The spell(s) being fizzled are simply reduced by a level or two. The benefit here is that the impact is predictable and easy to code. Spells still work exactly as they normally do but with a diminished reward for their full duration.
2) The spell(s) being fizzled are reduced by duration by a %. Again, this would be very easy to code and produce very predictable behavior. Spells still work exactly as they normally would but not for as long.
3) The spell(s) being fizzled have a more deliberately random response. For instance, lightning spells would have some strikes diverted outside their normal radius to surrounding buildings (same damage done just spread out more). Heal spells would have no effect on 10% of the troops covered. Rage spells would cause 10% of the troops in it's radius to run away in fear. Jump spells would function as a spring trap to 10% of the T1 troops in it's radius. Freeze spells would freeze 10% of the attacking troops as well as the buildings that were targeted.

While option 3 would be more difficult and time consuming to code it does lend itself to a more dynamic battleground. At times the fizzle effect could even be beneficial to the attacker. How often have you wished one of the dragons that is flying in a circle would break away and attack the TH or that last pesky AD? With a little luck a fizzled rage spell might send them in that direction. Or a few frozen troops get held up while the rest bunch up to be splattered by a mortar. Not likely but sometimes chaos ends up being beneficial.

Since the trap has a fairly short duration a clever player may not be impacted by them very much, or may drop a lightning spell in an effort to trigger the trap ahead of time. A more hasty player who drops a heal and rage spell in the same location would be more impacted because both spells get fizzled. While the trap could be used to defend DE storages the short duration of the fizzle would mean it only reduces a single spell unless the attacker drops all of them at once leaving zapping essentially unchanged unless the attacker's skill is exceptionally low. It would have far more effective defensive use in other situations but that of course is up to each player.

Reserved for future updates.

Thanks, iceagag.

I like this for several reasons. First, it alleviates my concerns of seriously affecting gameplay at lower leagues. While the higher THs are given an additional advantage, it's not enough to make them invincible. They can still be zapped.

Second, this adds a whole new dynamic to higher league play. I think this should reduce some of the zapping in Crystal and above while opening the door for new and interesting strategy.

Third, this a well rounded concept that doesn't suffer the shortsightedness of simply nerfing lightning, which is the most popular spell at lower levels. A defender can now gameplan for defending every spell rather than having the far simpler task of defending lightning, which is a no brainier decision based on what league you play. This actually requires strategy with each choice having its pros and cons.

Now my concerns. I think the times are too long. 8 seconds is a really long time. I'd suggest 3 and 5 instead of 5 and 8. Also, what would be the re-arm cost? And you mentioned it already, but the programming might be tricky. I don't think we can really know what this will do to troop AI, which seems iffy at best sometimes. While the randomness can be entertaining, it could also lead to a ton of frustration.

Personally I like this idea a lot. Rather than only supplying a nerf to a select spell, this is more of a leveling effect for all spells. People will choose how they want to place the trap, be it to mitigate zapping, or to protect their most valuable defenses. It will prove to be a challenge in CW though, imagine going to freeze an IT during a GoWiWi/WiPe and your Golem gets frozen also:rolleyes: your tank is down and your wiz/witches/PEKKA all keep going forward with nothing to stop them from being wailed on by the defenses.

I like Option 1 the most so far, Its simple and still allows people to use a spell, although not to its fullest potential. That and it sounds like the easiest to code.

The idea that it rewards the attacker that lies in wait is also fair. I have done my fair share of 4 second zaps and left without a scratch. Rewarding those that wait for the fizzle to fizzle out rather than zap n' leave is still on the same principal of zapping, just not lightning quick lol

i dont know man.
it sounds good
but spells should not have a counter to it
they are supposed to give the user an advantage

i think that if this was implemented, it would have to be an actual building placed, not an invisible trap.
make the person somewhat weaken the core to have to build around this defense

i dont like it personally
i think that it goes around the intent of spells, which is to give the user of them an advantage in battle
but im open to the idea of a defensive building like this

a hidden trap though, absolutely not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iceageg

Branching off of one of yesterday's conversations as requested without reviving a necro thread . . .

The idea here is to provide a level of defense against spells. Not to stop them outright or nerf them directly but to provide a form of defense against the only indefensible weapon in the game, which also happens to be the only one you can drop anywhere on the map.

Fizzle Trap
When a spell is dropped in the trigger radius the fizzle trap attempts to interrupt any spell dropped within its radius.
One available at TH9
lvl2 trap available at TH10 (still only one trap)
lvl1 5 second duration
lvl2 8 second duration
Trigger radius the same as a lightning spell
Effect Radius the same as a lightning spell

I see three solid options for how the fizzle mechanic can work to start the conversation. Other ideas are of course welcome.
1) The spell(s) being fizzled are simply reduced by a level or two. The benefit here is that the impact is predictable and easy to code. Spells still work exactly as they normally do but with a diminished reward for their full duration.
2) The spell(s) being fizzled are reduced by duration by a %. Again, this would be very easy to code and produce very predictable behavior. Spells still work exactly as they normally would but not for as long.
3) The spell(s) being fizzled have a more deliberately random response. For instance, lightning spells would have some strikes diverted outside their normal radius to surrounding buildings (same damage done just spread out more). Heal spells would have no effect on 10% of the troops covered. Rage spells would cause 10% of the troops in it's radius to run away in fear. Jump spells would function as a spring trap to 10% of the T1 troops in it's radius. Freeze spells would freeze 10% of the attacking troops as well as the buildings that were targeted.

While option 3 would be more difficult and time consuming to code it does lend itself to a more dynamic battleground. At times the fizzle effect could even be beneficial to the attacker. How often have you wished one of the dragons that is flying in a circle would break away and attack the TH or that last pesky AD? With a little luck a fizzled rage spell might send them in that direction. Or a few frozen troops get held up while the rest bunch up to be splattered by a mortar. Not likely but sometimes chaos ends up being beneficial.

Since the trap has a fairly short duration a clever player may not be impacted by them very much, or may drop a lightning spell in an effort to trigger the trap ahead of time. A more hasty player who drops a heal and rage spell in the same location would be more impacted because both spells get fizzled. While the trap could be used to defend DE storages the short duration of the fizzle would mean it only reduces a single spell unless the attacker drops all of them at once leaving zapping essentially unchanged unless the attacker's skill is exceptionally low. It would have far more effective defensive use in other situations but that of course is up to each player.

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No. Even if your idea is a bit different it's still basically the same idea

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spinner7980

i dont know man.
it sounds good
but spells should not have a counter to it
they are supposed to give the user an advantage

i think that if this was implemented, it would have to be an actual building placed, not an invisible trap.
make the person somewhat weaken the core to have to build around this defense

i dont like it personally
i think that it goes around the intent of spells, which is to give the user of them an advantage in battle
but im open to the idea of a defensive building like this

a hidden trap though, absolutely not.

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I do agree about the concept of spells. I'd be content leaving things as is. However, if anything would ever be done to mitigate zapping, I believe this is the route you have to go.

You can't nerf one spell and leave the others alone. I see this as a compromise. If anti-zappers are that upset over it, then they'll have to live with having their own spells addressed as well.

It's the only fair way.

From my perspective attacking is already dreadfully difficult and using spells are insanely costly. Adding a nerf to an expensive spell would be kinda hard to swallow. Unless with a nerf like this the spells themselves are adjusted in cost and effectiveness

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spinner7980

i dont know man.
it sounds good
but spells should not have a counter to it
they are supposed to give the user an advantage . . .

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That is why the trap would only impact a 3 square radius or so and would simply diminish the effectiveness of the spell dropped in that small circle if it was dropped there within a few seconds of the trap being triggered. The spell would still give the attacker an advantage that is simply reduced. After a few seconds (which may make the difference) the trap is done and you continue on normally. Worst case scenario the attacker drops rage, heal, jump, ice all as fast as possible all in the same spot and they get a little less performance. Most attackers would loose some of one spell and the next 3 or 4 would work as expected. In this way it rewards savvy game play.

For the record, I am 100% against anything designed to prevent zapping. I am OK with there being no defense against spells at all as it is currently. I do however see room for it within the current game mechanic. For most skilled players it would usually be merely an inconvenience but sometimes it could tip the scales.

I think these ideas just show how incredibly difficult it is to remove zapping from the game. Every solution presents even more problems, leading to just more complex solutions.

This is the best idea I've seen by far, and as we can see, it's not a perfect solution with consequences we really can't predict (effect on troop AI is the primary downside in this case). Is it really worth creating several large problems to be rid of 1 minor annoying one?

This is the reason why SC has no plans to mitigate zapping. It's not worth the time and effort, and takes away developer time and company resources away from updates that actually make the game better.

All that said, this is one idea I'd like to see developed further to work on the kinks. If nothing else, the new strategies that would have to be devised at higher leagues is intriguing.

Agreed. While spell mitigation is far from perfect, this idea affects all spells rather than just the basic spells. There will never be something to just nerf or counter just one spell. But Option 1 for this idea seems the most plausible out of them all

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Originally Posted by Scuba061

I think these ideas just show how incredibly difficult it is to remove zapping from the game. Every solution presents even more problems, leading to just more complex solutions.

This is the best idea I've seen by far, and as we can see, it's not a perfect solution with consequences we really can't predict (effect on troop AI is the primary downside in this case). Is it really worth creating several large problems to be rid of 1 minor annoying one?

This is the reason why SC has no plans to mitigate zapping. It's not worth the time and effort, and takes away developer time and company resources away from updates that actually make the game better.

All that said, this is one idea I'd like to see developed further to work on the kinks. If nothing else, the new strategies that would have to be devised at higher leagues is intriguing.

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agreed.
this is not a bad idea, but it needs much more to work out the details.
i also am considering the new base layouts and strategies involved to work around it.
this kind of thing makes sense, unlike the most commonly requested "lightning rod", which only affects the lightning spell. this thing, whatever it could be, would affect all spells and possibly not in a complete countering sort of way, but another defense to have to plan for.

as i mentioned, this would have to be a whole new building and not just an invisible trap due to the fact that spells are supposed to give the user the advantage. hiding one of these would take that away. keeping it in the open, the user can plan for it, giving him back the advantage

Just another thread trying to discourage zapping, get over it guys, zapping is in the game and it always will be.

plus dragon raids are hard enough at TH9

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Originally Posted by KLHF

Just another thread trying to discourage zapping, get over it guys, zapping is in the game and it always will be.

plus dragon raids are hard enough at TH9

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OOOHHHH no you don't. Nobody can accuse me of being anti-zap. To me this is something that the anti-zapping crowd could use that would be a waste of defense and present them as easier targets. I am all for zapping. I understand why it exists and while I hate being zapped it serves an important purpose.

This is a secretly desguised end to DE zappping, because everyone would put it next to DE storage so that they couldn't get zapper.... :) not good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arsenalfc

This is a secretly desguised end to DE zappping, because everyone would put it next to DE storage so that they couldn't get zapper.... :) not good.

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No. It would be almost useless as anti-zapping. Just drop one on the DE, wait for the trap to trigger, then drop the rest as normal. It would be a HUGE waste of the trap but it would give them a warm-n-fuzzy that they could do something about it.

Lol if you guys read any of the other threads before this one, to I will know that all of us here do not want zapping to end. It's merely a compromise between the two sides to end all the Zapping threads in the forums

I don't really like this idea. Spells should not be countered. If something like this were added, spells would cease to be fun to use.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iceageg

Branching off of one of yesterday's conversations as requested without reviving a necro thread . . .

The idea here is to provide a level of defense against spells. Not to stop them outright or nerf them directly but to provide a form of defense against the only indefensible weapon in the game, which also happens to be the only one you can drop anywhere on the map.

Fizzle Trap
When a spell is dropped in the trigger radius the fizzle trap attempts to interrupt any spell dropped within its radius.
One available at TH9
lvl2 trap available at TH10 (still only one trap)
lvl1 5 second duration
lvl2 8 second duration
Trigger radius the same as a lightning spell
Effect Radius the same as a lightning spell

I see three solid options for how the fizzle mechanic can work to start the conversation. Other ideas are of course welcome.
1) The spell(s) being fizzled are simply reduced by a level or two. The benefit here is that the impact is predictable and easy to code. Spells still work exactly as they normally do but with a diminished reward for their full duration.
2) The spell(s) being fizzled are reduced by duration by a %. Again, this would be very easy to code and produce very predictable behavior. Spells still work exactly as they normally would but not for as long.
3) The spell(s) being fizzled have a more deliberately random response. For instance, lightning spells would have some strikes diverted outside their normal radius to surrounding buildings (same damage done just spread out more). Heal spells would have no effect on 10% of the troops covered. Rage spells would cause 10% of the troops in it's radius to run away in fear. Jump spells would function as a spring trap to 10% of the T1 troops in it's radius. Freeze spells would freeze 10% of the attacking troops as well as the buildings that were targeted.

While option 3 would be more difficult and time consuming to code it does lend itself to a more dynamic battleground. At times the fizzle effect could even be beneficial to the attacker. How often have you wished one of the dragons that is flying in a circle would break away and attack the TH or that last pesky AD? With a little luck a fizzled rage spell might send them in that direction. Or a few frozen troops get held up while the rest bunch up to be splattered by a mortar. Not likely but sometimes chaos ends up being beneficial.

Since the trap has a fairly short duration a clever player may not be impacted by them very much, or may drop a lightning spell in an effort to trigger the trap ahead of time. A more hasty player who drops a heal and rage spell in the same location would be more impacted because both spells get fizzled. While the trap could be used to defend DE storages the short duration of the fizzle would mean it only reduces a single spell unless the attacker drops all of them at once leaving zapping essentially unchanged unless the attacker's skill is exceptionally low. It would have far more effective defensive use in other situations but that of course is up to each player.

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BREAKDOWN TIME!

1. This one I personally don't like. I earned my levels, let me keep them. Next we would be taking away levels from troops.
2. I am more on board of this one, but still takes away from something of the leveling. Although, this one isn't too bad.
3. I like the lightning spell part. Eh, the heal one is alright, other than finding out what 10% of troops. I dislike the rage spell counter for this. Why would I want my AI to be even worse than what it already is. I find the jump spell part fun. The freeze spell, eh.

Part about dragons: Again I say, why mess with the AI even more.

Part about saving troops by being frozen: Eh, I guess.

I do like the idea of some form of counter to spells. I know they are meant to give an advantage to the attacker, but we should get some form of defense against anything thrown at us. Personally,I have always had the idea of having some form of actual defense, I guess you could say, "trap" for it. Simply put, its a slightly visible bubble that you can place anywhere within your base setup. Has the same radius as a jump spell, so it would be just enough to cover something of importance. While still being visible, somewhat, the affects of spells within that area would be countered. Bringing an end to either DE zapping, or placing it in a better location to stop from having a jump spell ruin your defense. I would love some form of counter to spells though. Would be nice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GoryRage

BREAKDOWN TIME!

1. This one I personally don't like. I earned my levels, let me keep them. Next we would be taking away levels from troops.
2. I am more on board of this one, but still takes away from something of the leveling. Although, this one isn't too bad.
3. I like the lightning spell part. Eh, the heal one is alright, other than finding out what 10% of troops. I dislike the rage spell counter for this. Why would I want my AI to be even worse than what it already is. I find the jump spell part fun. The freeze spell, eh.

Part about dragons: Again I say, why mess with the AI even more.

Part about saving troops by being frozen: Eh, I guess.

I do like the idea of some form of counter to spells. I know they are meant to give an advantage to the attacker, but we should get some form of defense against anything thrown at us. Personally,I have always had the idea of having some form of actual defense, I guess you could say, "trap" for it. Simply put, its a slightly visible bubble that you can place anywhere within your base setup. Has the same radius as a jump spell, so it would be just enough to cover something of importance. While still being visible, somewhat, the affects of spells within that area would be countered. Bringing an end to either DE zapping, or placing it in a better location to stop from having a jump spell ruin your defense. I would love some form of counter to spells though. Would be nice.

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Thanks for taking the time to respond. I am open to other ideas regarding how it would work. Leaving it visible would be fine but a savvy player would be able to avoid it entirely every time. The only "problem" I have with it being visible is that the attacker would know where to drop a single spell to trigger it before they actually attack, effectively rendering it useless except to get the attacker to waste a spell. I suppose if it was visible it would just have to remain effective for a longer duration or until the structure was destroyed. In that way it would be more disruptive at it's location but easier to avoid. 6 of one, half dozen of another in my book. Both good methods of possible implementation.

All of the specific examples listed in option 3 are open for discussion. The idea was to demonstrate that the is an opportunity (good or bad) to introduce something that was not a flat rate reduction in spell effectiveness, rather a partial counter-reaction. In the end the anti-zappers get a warm-n-fuzzy that somebody finally acknowledged their plight and waste it on that while the rest of us get a slight defensive enhancement.

Like you I believe that while spells (all spells) are designed to provide an advantage to the attacker there is room for some form of defense that while it does not cancel the advantage at least mitigates it some. In my example it would be mitigated in a small circle for 5 seconds. Hardly crippling to the attacker unless they are careless with their attack strategy.