Battle rebalancing: Hogs and Dragons

In early July there was an update where Hogs took a killing hit as they got 1.5 times damage multiplication from giant bombs. This ended the era of the Hogs. From personal experience I have noticed that in Clan Wars the attacks will be all dragon, with only a few delightful exceptions. An all dragon attack is very low risk, and because of the very low risk also very boring. You know that there are the four seeking air mines, but that takes only four dragons out of the twelve in a all dragon attack. There is nothing that could go catastrophically wrong in a all dragon attack.

Risk should be rewarded, and avoidance of risk should be punished. It is not good business if a game turns boring. To save Supercell from ruin, I recommend that the damage per second of the hogs be increased and the dps of the dragons be reduced.

Or maybe the seeking air mine do biger damage to dragons and a splash damage that kills all dragons in a range.

Before, hogs were almost invincible, so that's why they were nerfed. Personally I feel like hogs can't be killed if this was taken back, so sorry no.

Dragons aren't that OP right now in my opinion either, they were when we were in lower leagues, but it's not easy to 3-star with dragons AT ALL

The main issue is that there is not enough variation in Clan Wars attacks. At every TH level there should be several plausible strategies, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. At the moment the only "weakness" of the all dragon attack is the cost, but that is not a real strategic weakness. Battles should be fought with skill, so that with the same composition of army the outcome should be very different with a different player.

I'm not saying that making Hogs stronger is the best or the only way to deal with the issue, I'm dissapointed in how low risk an all dragon attack is and how little skill it requires and how devastating damage it does - you're quite sure to get atleast two stars.

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Originally Posted by erantala

The main issue is that there is not enough variation in Clan Wars attacks. At every TH level there should be several plausible strategies, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. At the moment the only "weakness" of the all dragon attack is the cost, but that is not a real strategic weakness. Battles should be fought with skill, so that with the same composition of army the outcome should be very different with a different player.

I'm not saying that making Hogs stronger is the best or the only way to deal with the issue, I'm dissapointed in how low risk an all dragon attack is and how little skill it requires and how devastating damage it does - you're quite sure to get atleast two stars.

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At TH9 people drag but its stupid, you can't 3 star with drags and if all you want is a 2 star there are much cheaper ways of doing it. I love it when my clan goes up against a drag spam clan. We 3 star half their TH9s with gowipe they 3 star none of ours

Dragons are pretty much worthless after you upgrade your TH to level 9. A well designed base is tricky to even 2-star, whereas 2 or even 3 starring a base with other army compositions is more fun and more reliable.

In fact, I even made a thread once upon a time requesting that Dragons get a buff (of sorts).

This thread, as a matter of fact

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Originally Posted by erantala

In early July there was an update where Hogs took a killing hit as they got 1.5 times damage multiplication from giant bombs. This ended the era of the Hogs. From personal experience I have noticed that in Clan Wars the attacks will be all dragon, with only a few delightful exceptions. An all dragon attack is very low risk, and because of the very low risk also very boring. You know that there are the four seeking air mines, but that takes only four dragons out of the twelve in a all dragon attack. There is nothing that could go catastrophically wrong in a all dragon attack.

Risk should be rewarded, and avoidance of risk should be punished. It is not good business if a game turns boring. To save Supercell from ruin, I recommend that the damage per second of the hogs be increased and the dps of the dragons be reduced.

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the problem with your argument is the combination logical fallacies known as the Texas Sharpshooter and anecdotal. you are cherry-picking specific data used in conjunction with your own personal experience and saying this is true for everyone. you also make a huge generalization of dragon attacks thay they cannot be beaten. this could not be further from the truth. dragons as you know are an air attack, and air defenses, wizard towers, archer towers, teslas, inferno towers, and cross bows all defend against air attacks. i have personally seen a defense stand up to an all dragon attack and suffer only 1 star.

you only bring personal opinion to this argument, some of which is wrong. when you want a game mechanic changed, you need to provide facts and figures. not anecdotes.

your argument is invalid

It's been mentioned in hundreds if not thousands posts that dragons are pretty much useless at th9 or above unless you combine the dragons with balloons then early th9 still can be 3 starred. Dragons are fine the way it is now. Because even mass 12 lvl 4 dragons with 5 spells can't 3 star a good designed th 9

Maybe you need to change your war base.....

No one is saying that Dragons are all powerful at every level, but at TH7 they are OP, and at 8 they are until your air defence is maxed.

Why not move where you can level the dragons, level 2 at TH8 and 3 at TH9? Of coruse I'm well aware the odds of this happening but it would be the simplest solution.

I think they did too much to hogs, like against a TH9, AQ will annihilate Hogs. Keeping the Heroes in the center fixed that issue, but they really nerfed them to extinction. Dragons are widely used for Th7 and Th8, still I don't believe they should be so easy to 3 star any Th7 or TH8. Outside of that Dragons suck. Make hoggers harder to use, but I want em back.

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Originally Posted by Spinner7980

the problem with your argument is the combination logical fallacies known as the Texas Sharpshooter and anecdotal. you are cherry-picking specific data used in conjunction with your own personal experience and saying this is true for everyone. you also make a huge generalization of dragon attacks thay they cannot be beaten. this could not be further from the truth. dragons as you know are an air attack, and air defenses, wizard towers, archer towers, teslas, inferno towers, and cross bows all defend against air attacks. i have personally seen a defense stand up to an all dragon attack and suffer only 1 star.

you only bring personal opinion to this argument, some of which is wrong. when you want a game mechanic changed, you need to provide facts and figures. not anecdotes.

your argument is invalid

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I very rarely get blaimed for logical fallacies, but giving the argument a tint of colour does miracles to publicity! I have an early TH9, so maxing my air defence should solve the issue for me.

My argument of rewarding risk is perfectly valid. If you can get a higher or equal excepcted value for a smaller risk, then the choice is a no-brainer. The giant bomb poses a significant risk to hogs. One bomb can wipe out a herd of 20 hogs in a single blow. With dragons there is no such risk. You can see where the ad is and you know they do a steady damage - the outcome is predictable, and hence boring to death!

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Originally Posted by Tiler

Dragons are pretty much worthless after you upgrade your TH to level 9. A well designed base is tricky to even 2-star, whereas 2 or even 3 starring a base with other army compositions is more fun and more reliable.

In fact, I even made a thread once upon a time requesting that Dragons get a buff (of sorts).

This thread, as a matter of fact

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Originally Posted by Serenejazz

It's been mentioned in hundreds if not thousands posts that dragons are pretty much useless at th9 or above unless you combine the dragons with balloons then early th9 still can be 3 starred. Dragons are fine the way it is now. Because even mass 12 lvl 4 dragons with 5 spells can't 3 star a good designed th 9

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I would have said the same thing :D

I managed to save the third star from all out dragon attacks as a TH8. It did not work out all the time but it did sometime. As a TH9, I have had number of all out dragon attacks on my base and all they have managed is 1 star.

Drags are ok with their stats... No changes needed :p. It's hard to even 2 star bases with ads in the middle :p... Well... the movement of drags is kinda bad though

Dragons are no guarantee. It's not as simple as just spamming all dragons. I see attacks all the time with failed dragon attacks because noobs just assume they'll dominate.

It's a very easy attack to screw up if you have no experience with the attack. And there's plenty of risk involved given how expensive they are. Nothing worse than getting a 1-star with a 400k army.

It took me some time to master the attack. I'll still get 1 stars every now and then too if it's a well designed base. One time even my dragons got to the core quickly and the idiots circled the TH and continued on their merry way. Result was 98% and 1 star. Very frustrating.

Like previously stated, dragons are nowhere near perfect. Mass drag is wildly unpredictable given their AI. Just now, in my CW, a friend mass dragon-ed a moderate Th8 with 2 lvl 4 AD and a level 5 AD. Dragons cleared out one star to 84% then went to charge the TH. Defender had 2 ADs left, while my friend had about 4-5 dragons left. The dragons, turned around, avoided the TH and the ADs and went for a lowly Elixir storage, where they got rained Hell on by the two AD

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Originally Posted by HiFliya

Like previously stated, dragons are nowhere near perfect. Mass drag is wildly unpredictable given their AI. Just now, in my CW, a friend mass dragon-ed a moderate Th8 with 2 lvl 4 AD and a level 5 AD. Dragons cleared out one star to 84% then went to charge the TH. Defender had 2 ADs left, while my friend had about 4-5 dragons left. The dragons, turned around, avoided the TH and the ADs and went for a lowly Elixir storage, where they got rained Hell on by the two AD

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The funniest I ever saw was an attack against our last ranked player in a war, and it just highlights how badly a dragon attack can be for a noob...

The attacker lured out the clan troops first... Mistake #1.

The attacker didn't kill the clan troops... Mistake #2.

Then he spammed ALL his dragons in the same spot. The clan wizards took out all those dragons in ONE shot. Attack over in 25 seconds.

Hilarious to watch.

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Originally Posted by erantala

The main issue is that there is not enough variation in Clan Wars attacks. At every TH level there should be several plausible strategies, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. At the moment the only "weakness" of the all dragon attack is the cost, but that is not a real strategic weakness. Battles should be fought with skill, so that with the same composition of army the outcome should be very different with a different player.

I'm not saying that making Hogs stronger is the best or the only way to deal with the issue, I'm dissapointed in how low risk an all dragon attack is and how little skill it requires and how devastating damage it does - you're quite sure to get atleast two stars.

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I used to be in a war clan and all drag is a good way of getting easy 2 stars but usually not 3 against stronger opponents with 4 lvl6+ air defences.

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Originally Posted by Scuba061

Dragons are no guarantee. It's not as simple as just spamming all dragons. I see attacks all the time with failed dragon attacks because noobs just assume they'll dominate.

It's a very easy attack to screw up if you have no experience with the attack. And there's plenty of risk involved given how expensive they are. Nothing worse than getting a 1-star with a 400k army.

It took me some time to master the attack. I'll still get 1 stars every now and then too if it's a well designed base. One time even my dragons got to the core quickly and the idiots circled the TH and continued on their merry way. Result was 98% and 1 star. Very frustrating.

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True, dragon attacks do take some skill. Place dragons in a bad area such as near collectors or something and the defenses of the enemy base have a chance to take the dragon down. You just need to find where is the right location to attack.

It's still easier to three star most TH 8 with hogs than dragons. I did it today in our ongoing war with my TH8 account. A tight base is often easy to hog and an open antihog base is useless against GOWIPE. Dragons are often two stars, but not very often three.

Hogs and dragons are both fine as they are.

Using either one, you can three star, or you can fail miserably. It actually takes some thought to make it work, which is the way it should be.