To the low level trophy chasers...

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Originally Posted by WWM

You're missing the point. Is it fair in that it matches your trophies, well of course. No one is arguing that. Is it overall fair, or even remotely challenging or fun anymore. No.........

if it were based on a siding scale of levels, which lets say is 5 levels ahead or 5 behind. That would make sure no one is pillaging way below their actual ability. It would give incentive for one to upgrade and farm. This would still entice those as well to purchase gems. To upgrade faster...... Currently it's based on trophies which doesn't equal power at all. Beyond that people would have incentive to gain trophies. Rise to the top the of the boards and have the best clan.

Your post also indicates you do not know how the game is played. Why would anyone sit there and create troops just to level up? This would be such a waste of time, and if someone did do this. They deserve to be pillaged and lose all their resources. That's not how the game is suppose to be played. Then you go on to say the same bases can vary by user control, and thats not fair. Pardon me, but I am pretty sure hat's how competitve games are suppose to be played. If I am level 31 and I battle someone who's level 31, because I am better than them tactically, that's not fair. Give me a break. People won't want to do upgrades because their matchmaking will be harder, that's not fair? Yet that's how it should be. The more powerful you become the better your opponents should be.

none of your reasoning makes any sense.... You basically want the game to be a clash of clans boring version of FarmVille. This game has so much more potential than that.....

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Most people don't create troops "just to level up", they do it because the gem reward is very substantial and donating troops is a good a thing to do. Some people, however, do level up for the heck of it. It isn't many, but it is some.

Regardless you are not the end all be all judge on how the game should be played. Dismissing corner cases, problems, and pitfalls simply because "the game shouldn't be played like that" is a terrible idea from a design stand point. Just because you play the game a certain way doesn't mean everyone should.

Also it appears that you have decided to attack me by telling me I don't know how to play instead of attacking my arguments. I gave lots of reasons why level based match making is bad. Reasons you have not bothered to attempt to counter. If this is how you are going to attempt to frame the discussion, I see no reason to discuss this issue with you further.

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Originally Posted by dahimi

That's not true. You could use option 2 to your advantage by reaching a certain point, and simply attacking for trophies without doing upgrades. This is basically what low level trophy chasers do now. They increase their trophies at the expense of resources and upgrades.

If you are terrible at the game you may not be able to succeed by only attacking people with the same upgrades as you. Likewise, if you're really good, you'll be stuck attacking people similar to you instead of being able to attack people with more upgrades (for more trophies and profit) than you.

Option 2 also doesn't address the issue of resources. The whole reason people drop their trophies is to gain resources. Remove this mechanism without adding another and everyone with more upgrades will be resource starved.

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The first thing you mention isnt correct you cant stay at a certain point because your apponents are equal in strength. This way it is still an equal fight.

On the second comment you say tha people are farming without upgrading. If so, what are they farming for. You can't store that much because then you would need a bigger storage and for that you need a bigger townhall which gives you better apponents. And SC already covered this by giving you less gold/ elixir (-75%) when you TH is 2 lvl's higher than your apponents. So I guess "camping" on the same lvl doesn't benefit you

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Originally Posted by r4y383

The first thing you mention isnt correct you cant stay at a certain point because your apponents are equal in strength. This way it is still an equal fight.

On the second comment you say tha people are farming without upgrading. If so, what are they farming for. You can't store that much because then you would need a bigger storage and for that you need a bigger townhall which gives you better apponents. And SC already covered this by giving you less gold/ elixir (-75%) when you TH is 2 lvl's higher than your apponents. So I guess "camping" on the same lvl doesn't benefit you

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So you're saying if you don't upgrade, the match making system will simply not match you with opponents? That sounds sucky. For the most part as long as it is matching you, you can win trophies.

When did I say people are farming without upgrading? I never said that. The whole point of farming is to get resources for upgrading.

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Originally Posted by r4y383

The way you advise to play is to keep your T as low as possible and max out your base (by farming other low T players) and once that is done, the game finally starts.

Right now i'm lvl 42 and all the attacks I get are from lvl 60~70 people. Who apperently keep their T low. It is not possible to defend to them sinds everything they have is based on their higher lvl.

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Why do you need to defend against them? Keep your gold low and there's nothing to defend. Nobody will attack you. If they do, there will be nothing of value to steal.

@dahimi I don't understand your text. Maybe I don't read it correct but you litteraly say that these are the things farmers do and I never said the matchmaking would stop if you don't upgrade. It just doesn't benefit you because other apponents are always equal in strength. Now they can manipulate by just losing trophys to get weaker apponents.

@mediapluck at higher lvl's you really need to safe for updates so most of the times you have a lot of gold and elixer

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Originally Posted by r4y383

@dahimi I don't understand your text. Maybe I don't read it correct but you litteraly say that these are the things farmers do and I never said the matchmaking would stop if you don't upgrade. It just doesn't benefit you because other apponents are always equal in strength.

@mediapluck at higher lvl's you really need to safe for updates so most of the times you have a lot of gold and elixer

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Can you quote the text where I literally say, "people are farming without upgrading"?

How does it not benefit you? As long as you're matching, you'll be gaining trophies. That's how it benefits you. You get to gain trophies using fewer and quicker to build troops against easier bases. Meanwhile higher level bases cannot attack you. The logical extension of this is you'll have people at high trophy ranges that are invulnerable to high level bases which share those ranges. You're advocating this because you're only considering the low end of the range. You have to consider the high end of the range too.

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Originally Posted by dahimi

Most people don't create troops "just to level up", they do it because the gem reward is very substantial and donating troops is a good a thing to do. Some people, however, do level up for the heck of it. It isn't many, but it is some.

Regardless you are not the end all be all judge on how the game should be played. Dismissing corner cases, problems, and pitfalls simply because "the game shouldn't be played like that" is a terrible idea from a design stand point. Just because you play the game a certain way doesn't mean everyone should.

Also it appears that you have decided to attack me by telling me I don't know how to play instead of attacking my arguments. I gave lots of reasons why level based match making is bad. Reasons you have not bothered to attempt to counter. If this is how you are going to attempt to frame the discussion, I see no reason to discuss this issue with you further.

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Actually I pointed out two examples in your flawed logic. No one is going to sit there and level (they don't get gems for donating troops, I don't know why you keep saying this) and to upgrade their base. That's idiotic and defeats the whole purpose of the game.

1. Level means nothing in this game. You get experience points for all sorts of things that aren't directly related to upgrades. You get experience for donating troops. You get experience for clearing obstacles. You get experience for completing achievements. You get experience for destroying someone's town hall.

Levels actually mean a whole hell of a lot to the game. Just as trophies do. It tells how much effort you've Put in the game and how far along you have come. I don't see how this is an argument against using levels for matchmaking. If anything this is exactly why it should be used for exactly that. Those who spend the time on the game should have a fair shot when battling.

Let's examine troop donation. You get 1 exp point for each troop space you donate. To get the max achievement for donating troops you have to donate over 30,000 troops. The formula for how much exp is needed to go up one level is 50*your level. So it's about 1000 exp to go for from level 20 to 21. That means if your clan agrees to go for this achievement by rapidly donating troops as fast as possible, one can quickly raise their level. 30,000 exp at level 20 is worth 15-20 levels.


Ummm so, if people are dumb enough to gain levels by simply donating troops. Then they deserve to be pillaged. The game is obviously designed for one to work on all fronts. Farming, upgrading, and battling...... This is a moot and invalid point.


2. People of the same levels have vastly different strengths. Let's say you want to concentrate on your defenses and not your troops. You could easily, through upgrades, level yourself into a range where your troops will not be able to do anything.

yeah, again so what. One person shouldn't be punished for being better than another on the same level. Same goes for one being rewarded for being inferior. That logic rewards those who suck and don't play the game.

3. Two people with identical bases can vary wildly in ability. One person can be great at playing and able to tackle much stronger bases then the other guy who may only be able to destroy weaker bases because they simply suck at troop deployment.

Yeah same as above. That logic is asinine, and rewards the wrong people.....


4. There are a ton of weird cases. There are people with level 9 town halls that are in the 20s. There is sneakydave who may be level 200 by now.

There are also cheats and hacks for the game....... I don't see the point in this one either.

5. People who advance their bases with gems will be lower level than people who have the same upgrades but didn't. That's because people that didn't use gems will have likely donated more troops, destroyed more town halls, cleared more obstacles, etc.

They're also paying for that privilege. It's not a whole lot of people doing this either. Yet I don't see the issue with allowing this. Again, they're paying for it, let them have the extra benefit. Especially if it encourages people to spend the money to help the game get better.


6. Basing match making on level will have the same exact as effect basing loot on town hall level did. It will cause people to not want to level, just like people now don't want to level their town hall. This will have two negative effects. First people will no longer donate troops. Second, they will not want to do upgrades because it will make their matches harder.

I don't see why people would stop donating troops. Especially if you want to stay Ina clan. You have to donate, this will in no way I courage people not to level up. And should the matches get easier as you upgrade? That makes no sense, I can't follow that logic. I've been playing video games for 30 years and this is not how video games work. As you progress so does your opponents. Otherwise, there is no point.....


7. If match making is based on level, low level people will be at a huge advantage with trophy chasing. They will be immune to the powerful bases that currently sit at the top. Would it not frustrate you if have worked months maxing your base only to see some low level guy at the top of the charts simply because no one who is high level can match with them? This will completely ruin any incentive to make your base better.


This is just not true. First of all, keep the matches within a cap. No ore than 5 higher and no more than 5 lower. Also the higher the level the better troops and defense they're going to have. So if some low level guy did have more trophies than some high level guy it'd be for two reasons. First, they were more proactive in getting them. Secondly, they are better at the game then the other and deserve the status that they get.

8. At higher levels gaining enough resources to pay for higher upgrades will become impossible. After a certain point it takes a full load of spells and dragons or pekkas to take people out. In short it costs more per battle then you can possibly win.

Thats where the cap comes in, it will make it easier to upgrade and play. If we are only battling those within our level range, we have a better opportunity at advancing. Not to mention, we can't get pillaged by those who dump trophies but are leagues ahead of you. This is ridiculous.....

Actually I pointed out two examples in your flawed logic. No one is going to sit there and level (they don't get gems for donating troops, I don't know why you keep saying this) and to upgrade their base. That's idiotic and defeats the whole purpose of the game.

I keep saying it because it's true.
http://clashofclans.wikia.com/wiki/A...Friend_in_Need

Levels actually mean a whole hell of a lot to the game. Just as trophies do. It tells how much effort you've Putin the game and how far along you have come. I don't see how this is an argument against using levels for matchmaking. If anything this is exactly why it should be used for exactly that. Those who spend the time on the game should have a fair shot when battling.

They say nothing about how that effort was spent. You seem to think there is only one way to play the game and if you play it different you deserve to get screwed.

Ummm so, if people are dumb enough to gain levels by simply donating troops. Then they deserve to be pillaged. The game is obviously designed for one to work on all fronts. Farming, upgrading, and battling...... This is a Mott and invalid point.

You say one group deserves to be pillaged for playing one way and maintain that people that play your way don't. Yeah that's certainly, "fair".

yeah, again so what. One person shouldn't be punished for being better than another on the same level. Same goes for one being rewarded for being inferior. That logic rewards those who suck and don't treat the game.

How is that punishment? Again, different people play differently and have different strengths. You should never end up in a situation where the upgrades you select cause you to dig a hole you cannot get out of.

Yeah same as above. That logic is asinine, and rewards the wrong people.....

No because with an incentive system in place that makes trophy collecting valuable, people that gain more trophies will be properly rewarded for doing so.

There are also cheats and hacks for the game....... I don't see the point in this one either.

So apparently you don't see the difference between a cheat or a hack and legitimate game play that puts you in a position different from the rest of people.

They're also paying for that privilege. It's not a whole lot of people doing this either. Yet I don't see the issue with allowing this. Again, they're paying for it, let them have the extra benefit. Especially if it encourages people to spend the money to help the game get better.

Because this sets up a bunch of cases that are contrary to what you are attempting to achieve with level based matching. Note the case I described above which you compared to a cheat or hack.

I don't see why people would stop donating troops. Especially if you want to stay Ina clan. You have to donate, this will in no way I courage people not to level up. And should the matches get easier as you upgrade? That makes no sense, I can't follow that logic. I've been playing video games for 30 years and this is not how video games work. As you progress so does your opponents. Otherwise, there is no point.....

People will stop donating troops because donating troops gives you experience. Experience gives you levels and gaining levels under your system makes the game harder. Anything you do that isn't a base upgrade will make your game harder with absolutely no gain. Plenty of clans will simply abandon the concept of troop donation entirely.

As you upgrade, your capacity for gaining trophies should go up. Whether or not that makes the matches easier is up to you. Again you are stuck on saying things should work a certain way because you say so.

This is just not true. First of all, keep the matches within a cap. No ore than 5 higher and no more than 5 lower. Also the higher the level the better troops and defense they're going to have. So if some low level guy did have more trophies than some high level guy it'd be for two reasons. First, they were more proactive in getting them. Secondly, they are better at the game then the other and deserve the status that they get.

Simply not true. The troops required for attacking are much more expensive and time consuming to build at higher levels than lower ones. This means people with weaker bases can afford to build more troops in less time and attack more often. Without the threat of attacks from higher levels, they would rise through the ranks unchecked.

Thats where the cap comes in, it will make it easier to upgrade and play. If we are only battling those within our level range, we have a better opportunity at advancing. Not to mention, we can't get pillaged by those who dump trophies but are leagues ahead of you. This is ridiculous.....

No it won't. If you can only battle people of the same level you will simply not be able to earn enough resources to make up the cost of attacking. You seem to be ignoring the fact that at a certain point only PEKKAs, dragons, and rage spells will work. Getting pillaged costs you at most 180k. I'd much rather get pillaged for 180k every time my shield is up then only to be able to extract small amounts of resources at great cost a couple of times a day.

This is where you litteraly say that.

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Originally Posted by dahimi

That's not true. You could use option 2 to your advantage by reaching a certain point, and simply attacking for trophies without doing upgrades. This is basically what low level trophy chasers do now.

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And sinds your matching you can win and also lose battles/trophys. And of course matchmaking should be capped. If you can get ranked for instance between 1 and 100 then it should be possible to attack someone directly above and below you. This way you match up with someone of equal strength. And you cant be only upgradeing units because to do so you need to upgrade other buildings as well. And this way you'll be automatically in a higher ranking so stronger apponents.

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Originally Posted by r4y383

This is where you litteraly say that.




And sinds your matching you can win and also lose battles/trophys. And of course matchmaking should be capped. If you can get ranked for instance between 1 and 100 then it should be possible to attack someone directly above and below you. This way you match up with someone of equal strength. And you cant be only upgradeing units because to do so you need to upgrade other buildings as well. And this way you'll be automatically in a higher ranking so stronger apponents.

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I don't see the word "farming" in that quote at all. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't I have to actually use the word "farming" in order to literally say anything about farming?

A number of people believe that the objective of the game is to get the most trophies as possible. In a system that penalizes you for upgrading by making your game harder, it should be clear that for some there would be plenty of incentive to attack only for trophies without concern for performing upgrades.

I still don't see what stops people who are lower level, who can attack more times with fewer troops, from gaining more trophies than higher level people. There will be a complete disconnect between how upgraded your base is and your capacity for gaining trophies.