Loot System Needs A Real Fix

This post is something I first typed up under the popular loot thread in General. I've decided to give the post it's own shot here as it's own thread since that thread gets a new page every 5 minutes. Let me know what you think : ) I will be editing/adding as I think of more logical ideas and as others (you) provide feedback. Enjoy!

A few weeks ago I went for Champ for the first time and got it. At first I was going to drop back down immediately to farm because getting to Champ hurt my resources bad. Instead I decided to try Barching for the first time and stay around 3200. Yes, that's correct, I a TH 10 had not once barched before because I have always enjoyed using stronger armies. Anyways, I was shocked to find how amazing barching in champ is with the increased loot bonus. Once I got the hang of it I knew which base layouts to look for and it became easy to maintain trophies as long as I session raided on occasion. Believe it or not, I was able to session raid without the use of gems as long as I attacked well. A good attack included me using my army, 0-1 or 2 lightning spells, and using my AQ but not allowing her to get hurt enough to have to wait for her before my next attack. Unfortunately after a few weeks I just dropped back down to 2600 because I need to upgrade my AQ and do not have the time to session raid to maintain Champ easily. Now that I'm back down in trophies and farming, I once again hate loot.


The main point to this story is that I really enjoy loot at Champ (when barching), but those few weeks I was there was the ONLY time I've found loot to be acceptable. It was also the only time I've ever not had to worry about nexting more than a dozen or so times. For once loot actually felt right. I'm not saying that increasing the loot bonus once again is going to solve the loot system's problems. On the contrary, I'm extremely disappointed that SC's solution to poor loot was the recent loot increase. As great as the increase is, SC should accept that their loot system is once again outdated and CHANGE it.


In my last post on this thread I believe I provided some loot system changes that I thought up at the time that seemed much better than the current one. The fact alone that better possible loot systems exist and SC still has yet to fix CoC's broken one amazes me.


Let me first address a couple of my main issues with the loot system. I feel like a broken record when I say that my biggest issue with the loot system is that people recieve a greater reward for attacking an inactive base instead of an active base. If this was flip-flopped then players would competitively attack with their better armies so take out harder bases to earn greater rewards. Again I'm NOT suggesting we depend on the loot bonuses! My other large concern with the system is that players are basically rewarded for having their TH outside!! *Even during my time in Champ I found it much more rewarding to have my TH outside to save trophies, my storages, and especially the drag of wasting resources to re-arm traps, etc when my TH was inside (That ♥♥♥♥ gets expensive!)


This time instead of suggesting detailed loot systems which I thin are better than the current, I'd like to lost some individual mechanic changes that could be used by SC to change the loot system for the better. I'm not saying these should all be added, but this list could easily make the loot system more enjoyable and even more fair for players:

-Take away ALL trap re-arm costs and instead require the TH to be (rebuilt) after it is destroyed.
-Whenever traps are bought or upgraded by the player, the cost to rebuild the TH increases.
-Whenever traps are used in a defense, they will AUTOMATICALLY re-arm afterwards as long as the defender's TH is not destroyed.
-When a player's TH is destroyed, the cost to rebuild it is equivalent to the traps that were used in the defense. Those traps will not re-arm until the TH is rebuilt.
-If a player chooses to not rebuild his/her TH, those traps will remain unarmed. During future defenses, the TH will appear only partly destroyed and have less HP. Therefor a TH that has not been rebuilt is weaker until it is rebuilt.
-The purpose of this idea is to reward players who successfully defend their TH by not having to re-arm traps. This also promotes leaving THs INSIDE.

-Make the TH hold more loot
-The increased loot in the TH can all 100% be stolen by the attacker
-Maybe make this loot unavailable if the attacker's TH level is above the defenders?



-Increase the amount of loot a player can take from a defender.
-EX: Player A with the current loot system offers 65k gold, 80k elixir and 500 DE. After all normal loot system calculations are done, the offer is doubled to the attacker. So now the attacker can take 130k gold, 160k elixir, and 1k DE.
- While the attacker can loot twice the amount in this new loot system, the defender can still only lose the original amount. So if the attacker steals 100k gold, 150k elixir and 500DE, the defender only sees a loss of 50k gold, 75k elixir and 250DE.
-Loot caps remain unchanged. If player A (TH 10) would originally offer 250k gold 400k elixir and 2.5k DE, the attacker can only steal 400k gold, 400k elixir, and 3k DE.
-This added loot multiplier only affects a defender's STORAGES, not their collectors. This would result in actives more commonly offering better loot while inactive bases would not be affected as much.
-This added multiplier would promote players to attack active bases more over nexting endlessly for inactive bases.


-An attacker "sniping" a TH will earn a star but will not earn the loot bonus until the player has destroyed XX% of the base. My suggestion here would be 40% to make it more difficult to earn without a full army.
-This would still allow barching and other troop comps to be successful but would require the attacker to actually attack to win loot.


-A small resource bonus for winning a defense. This has been suggested by many before but makes more sense if implemented with some of these other ideas.
-This would again push players to move their TH's inside and protect them.


-There's plenty more. Again I just thought some of these up as I went. Some I already suggested but just got lost in this crazy thread. I may just create my own thread since it is probably even more of a waste of my time to post it here...


Let me know what you think!

I'm pretty much with it because I have a few of the same problems. I reached master 2 but then I had 2 choices. Maintain my league and loose a lot of loot or go farming (Which I once did and now regret) so I pretty much decided to keep my league while my builders are really glad they have nothing to do.

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Originally Posted by iDANglin

Let me first address a couple of my main issues with the loot system. I feel like a broken record when I say that my biggest issue with the loot system is that people recieve a greater reward for attacking an inactive base instead of an active base. If this was flip-flopped then players would competitively attack with their better armies so take out harder bases to earn greater rewards.

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Agreed, but your story sort of contradicts this. You said you were satisfied with the loot in champion league. Doesn't that sort of imply that the system is working as intended?

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Originally Posted by iDANglin

Again I'm NOT suggesting we depend on the loot bonuses! My other large concern with the system is that players are basically rewarded for having their TH outside!!

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You're losing me here. This benefits everyone. Easy bonuses. Easy shields. Easy trophies. Win. Win. Win.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iDANglin

-Make the TH hold more loot
-The increased loot in the TH can all 100% be stolen by the attacker

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How does this help the loot situation? All it does is increase the amount of loot transfer between players. You steal a bunch of loot from someone, and now that person has to steal it again. In fact each time loot changes hands, it's a net loss for us all because it costs resources for both troops and next costs to obtain that loot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iDANglin

-Take away ALL trap re-arm costs and instead require the TH to be (rebuilt) after it is destroyed.
-Whenever traps are bought or upgraded by the player, the cost to rebuild the TH increases.
-Whenever traps are used in a defense, they will AUTOMATICALLY re-arm afterwards as long as the defender's TH is not destroyed.
-When a player's TH is destroyed, the cost to rebuild it is equivalent to the traps that were used in the defense. Those traps will not re-arm until the TH is rebuilt.
-If a player chooses to not rebuild his/her TH, those traps will remain unarmed. During future defenses, the TH will appear only partly destroyed and have less HP. Therefor a TH that has not been rebuilt is weaker until it is rebuilt.
-The purpose of this idea is to reward players who successfully defend their TH by not having to re-arm traps. This also promotes leaving THs INSIDE.

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Again, why? THs being outside is not the cause of the loot shortage. All of this defensive based stuff is problematic because the defender has little influence over defense. By necessity all base designs can be defeated. This means whether you lose or not is based on what the attacker does, not what you as the defender do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iDANglin

-Increase the amount of loot a player can take from a defender.
-EX: Player A with the current loot system offers 65k gold, 80k elixir and 500 DE. After all normal loot system calculations are done, the offer is doubled to the attacker. So now the attacker can take 130k gold, 160k elixir, and 1k DE.
- While the attacker can loot twice the amount in this new loot system, the defender can still only lose the original amount. So if the attacker steals 100k gold, 150k elixir and 500DE, the defender only sees a loss of 50k gold, 75k elixir and 250DE.
-Loot caps remain unchanged. If player A (TH 10) would originally offer 250k gold 400k elixir and 2.5k DE, the attacker can only steal 400k gold, 400k elixir, and 3k DE.
-This added loot multiplier only affects a defender's STORAGES, not their collectors. This would result in actives more commonly offering better loot while inactive bases would not be affected as much.
-This added multiplier would promote players to attack active bases more over nexting endlessly for inactive bases.

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I'd much rather see incentives tied to trophy count. Your system still encourages people to stay in low leagues and attack weaker targets.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iDANglin

-An attacker "sniping" a TH will earn a star but will not earn the loot bonus until the player has destroyed XX% of the base. My suggestion here would be 40% to make it more difficult to earn without a full army.
-This would still allow barching and other troop comps to be successful but would require the attacker to actually attack to win loot.

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Again, why? The current system of TH sniping is a benefit to all. If you really want to alter this behavior there needs to be better incentives for cup climbing. Your solution does not acknowledge this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iDANglin

-A small resource bonus for winning a defense. This has been suggested by many before but makes more sense if implemented with some of these other ideas.
-This would again push players to move their TH's inside and protect them.

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Nope. Again, whether a person successfully defends are not depends on the attacker not the defender. Bonuses should be based on successful attacking not successful defending.

In my opinion you have everything totally wrong. Loot should be tied to success. Success in this game is defined by trophy count. The game's reward mechanism should be tied to how many trophies you have. Your system basically allows players to extract more loot out of the current broken system that doesn't reward trophy hunting nearly enough.

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Originally Posted by dahimi

Agreed, but your story sort of contradicts this. You said you were satisfied with the loot in champion league. Doesn't that sort of imply that the system is working as intended?



You're losing me here. This benefits everyone. Easy bonuses. Easy shields. Easy trophies. Win. Win. Win.



How does this help the loot situation? All it does is increase the amount of loot transfer between players. You steal a bunch of loot from someone, and now that person has to steal it again. In fact each time loot changes hands, it's a net loss for us all because it costs resources for both troops and next costs to obtain that loot.



Again, why? THs being outside is not the cause of the loot shortage. All of this defensive based stuff is problematic because the defender has little influence over defense. By necessity all base designs can be defeated. This means whether you lose or not is based on what the attacker does, not what you as the defender do.



I'd much rather see incentives tied to trophy count. Your system still encourages people to stay in low leagues and attack weaker targets.



Again, why? The current system of TH sniping is a benefit to all. If you really want to alter this behavior there needs to be better incentives for cup climbing. Your solution does not acknowledge this.



Nope. Again, whether a person successfully defends are not depends on the attacker not the defender. Bonuses should be based on successful attacking not successful defending.

In my opinion you have everything totally wrong. Loot should be tied to success. Success in this game is defined by trophy count. The game's reward mechanism should be tied to how many trophies you have. Your system basically allows players to extract more loot out of the current broken system that doesn't reward trophy hunting nearly enough.

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I understand if you have a different opinion from my own on how the loot system can be improved, but your response felt kind of like an aggressive attack. You said that my logic for my ideas are contradicting and would backfire, but after reading your response I have I disagree. First off I said that the list includes suggestions. The idea of my original post as a whole was for SC to pick and choose some to most of the opinions to improve the loot. Many of these ideas promote putting players' THs inside. You say that the result would be players dropping trophies to take advantage of transferring loot from sniping, but on the contrary these ideas would result in players being forced to hide their THs in order to protect their loot. This would result in a more competitive environment.

You seem to be worried that players would gain resources from farming low and bullying, but the loot multiplier from differing TH levels would combat this. I think you should keep in mind that I am searching for additional ideas from others to improve this idea. Thank you for helping me come up with the idea that others could lot gain resources from taking out the TH itself if their TH level is above the defenders : D If you have any ideas I can add to my list to help improve my idea please post it : ) Thanks!

I don't get why people are making a big deal about loot

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Originally Posted by iDANglin

You said that my logic for my ideas are contradicting and would backfire, but after reading your response I have I disagree.

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No I said that it's somewhat contradictory that you would say the game doesn't reward attacking active players, while also saying that your best loot experience in the game came from attacking pretty much only active players.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iDANglin

The idea of my original post as a whole was for SC to pick and choose some to most of the opinions to improve the loot.

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How could they reasonably do that? The ideas presented are largely meant to work in tandem with each other.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iDANglin

Many of these ideas promote putting players' THs inside. You say that the result would be players dropping trophies to take advantage of transferring loot from sniping, but on the contrary these ideas would result in players being forced to hide their THs in order to protect their loot. This would result in a more competitive environment.

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My point is how do any of these ideas (except for the one that allows for attacks to generate resources by allowing the attacker to get more than the defender loses) result in a healthier game economy?

I never said that the result would be players dropping trophies to take advantage of sniping. What I said is that these ideas don't address what is actually wrong with the game. The key issue with the game right now is that it doesn't appropriately award trophy climbing and ultimately progress. A TH7 with 0 trophies can get a lot more loot a lot faster than a TH10 with 4000 trophies. That is fundamentally broken. Your ideas collectively re-enforce that dynamic.

The end result of these ideas would be TH10s sitting amongst a bunch of low level bases, essentially impervious to attack. Then when the TH10s go to feed they get increased loot from going all out on the weaker surrounding bases. I get that the loot doesn't come at the expense of the low players, but it's still not a good game dynamic.

I don't really see this as being a more competitive environment. If you want a more competitive environment you need reward the acquisition and holding of trophies. This is what would cause people to compete more honestly. It should not be more profitable to deliberately plant yourself in a lower league than it is to strive for a higher one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iDANglin

You seem to be worried that players would gain resources from farming low and bullying, but the loot multiplier from differing TH levels would combat this. I think you should keep in mind that I am searching for additional ideas from others to improve this idea. Thank you for helping me come up with the idea that others could lot gain resources from taking out the TH itself if their TH level is above the defenders : D If you have any ideas I can add to my list to help improve my idea please post it : ) Thanks!

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No I'm not worried about that. That already happens. I'm worried that these ideas prop up the current fundamentally broken system that is in place by allowing folks to extract even more loot from weaker targets. This isn't going to drive people to gain more trophies. It simply punishes people for playing in a way you don't like while at the same time allowing you to extract more loot by deliberately keeping your trophy count low.

In my opinion, incentives such as increasing collector output and decreasing troop build times as a function of increased trophy count would do more to fix the game. Basically more trophies = easier access to better armies as well as increased amounts of loot availability. Imagine if it was like a boost weekend every day in the higher leagues. Sure you have to work to get there and stay there, but the rewards would also be worth doing so.

I feel like you have a lot of good ideas here. Here are my thoughts:

I think the loot bonuses are good as they are. Obviously being in gold 2 (where i am) is not very impressive and shouldn't earn me any big rewards.

Your thoughts on the trap rearm costs were very confusing. You said that traps shouldn't cost anything to rearm but the price to rebuild your town hall should be the same as how much the traps would have cost to rearm...? I think the traps are good as they are right now.

I completely disagree about the town hall holding more loot since you are sacrificing trophies for a free shield. It would also make no sense if a player couldn't take somebodies loot if they are weaker than them. If I am a town hall 9 I should be able to attack town hall 10's all I want.

Now your idea about the storage loot multiplier is what intrigued me. I do think there should be a loot multiplier for the attacker but the defender shouldn't lose as much as the attacker takes. This would essentially make money appear out of nowhere (like clan wars) and be a great boost to the economy. It would only be for the storages as you said to reward players who use more expensive armies to break into the core of the base. Barchers would still prosper since the new loot bonus and the collector bases will still be out there but the people with stronger armies wouldn't attack them as much since the storages are more appealing to them. I think this could be a great thing for SC to implement since attackers would gain more but the defenders would lose the same amount as before with the current caps that are in place currently

Your last point about the small resource bonus for a defense win I don't really care about. It would be cool for pushers but I am a farmer so whatever :p

Overall I really only agreed with the storage loot multiplier but it is a great idea. Great post man!