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Very well stated - pretty much nailed every thing I believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbtcrazy
I know that there really isn't a good solution to this but I do believe the 30% loser loot has become far more attractive than the previous 20% making this happen more frequently and gaining in popularity.
In the meantime, keeping my fingers crossed for a real war next time! It can't happen 4 times in a row can it?
I don't think he was commenting on you - only that his opinion (which I tend to share) is that there are better ways to use your army to gain loot.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackieHope
We've had clans quit against us since the beginning, although I've never had a clan not fill the war CC's at all or to attempt to raid en masse. Usually they just don't attack, and oftentimes it seems to just be a ploy to try to convince us not to fight them. Just a couple of wars ago, our opponents posted a message that they had some internal issues and were quitting. But they filled their CC's and one of the "quitters" left his TH out. We never give up regardless of what our opponents do, so by the time the "quitters" rejoined the clan about 12 hours later, they were hopelessly sunk. Whether they intended to quit or not, I don't know, but only one of them attacked by the end, and the majority of our players still managed to get easy loot off the outside TH.
There is a balance that needs to be struck. If the penalty for a loss is too high, clans just won't bother warring. If raising the loot for a loss gets more to play, even if just to put in a half-hearted effort and raid, I'm in favor of it. If the choice is between an easy win and not having an opponent at all, I'll take the easy loot every time.
If you truly feel that the game isn't fun unless you're always have a tough battle, you may be in the minority. There are vast numbers of people in the regular game who leave their TH's out, snipe others' TH's, collector raid, next past an opponent, seek out inactives, etc. in order to find a favorable raid. The forum is full of people complaining that they have to Next too much, so it shouldn't be a surprise that players would want to gain loot as cheaply as possible in Clan Wars, too. And since doing so still gives you the opportunity to plan out your attack (even with no CC troops) and keep 100% of the loot you earn, I don't see the harm.
There are many ways to have a difficult challenge if that's truly what you seek. If your opponents don't fill their CC's or declare they quit before battle, you could do the same and leave your CC's empty, put your TH's out, remove walls, put your infernos in a corner, have everyone use their first attack vs. their #1 player, or a host of other options to handicap your ability to win the war. I, personally, would never do this, but I also don't care if our opponent quits either.
Thank you for your insightful comments and feedback. Of course there are better ways to use your army for loot, but if you have a chance to make a profit for free, wouldn't you take that in addition to your normal farming? That's exactly what these last three war enemy's have done. And in these cases it is clearly not the clans quitting, it is the clans looting the war system.Quote:
Originally Posted by SharkyFinn
This balance you speak of - I agree - the loser loot is out of balance, making it too attractive to abuse or loot the war system with giving no effort. This obviously is my opinion. I understand I am the minority here - seems like no one wants a challenge or to earn a reward for their hard work - all want something for nothing, that is our society.
I never said the game wasn't fun, I enjoy the game and have played for a very long time. Warring against a clan who is putting in zero effort and giving you the win is incredibly boring and takes the fun out of war for me. Your suggestions to make the war more of a challenge or interesting directly contradicts the ploys you speak of. We raid hard every single war looking to gain the most stars possible, just in case the enemy is pulling one of these many tricks you referred to or have other tricks planned. It's too risky to not fill war cc or give it a full effort - we want the challenge, we want to win, we want the winner bonus! Loser bonus is not good enough for me or my team!
This isn't a real problem.
If somehow you end up seeing NOTHING BUT these cheesy 1* attempts, then you redesign your base such that it can't be 1* by cheap attacks. This obviously means you could be victimized by real attacks... no design is good for everything. But it seems like a really unfriendly thing to complain about. Because YOUR clan saw it 3 times in a row, other competitive clans that aren't on your tier should have war loser loot reduced? Nah.
SC can fix this by incentivizing war achievements more, but really, until it becomes a widespread problem that people are effectively "farming" war, you should count yourselves lucky that you get easy wins and easy loot.
Hi HanSolo - thanks for your feedback and comment. Maybe this is a widespread problem or maybe it's not - don't know until someone puts it out there as I did. This post was started to discover if it is widespread as having it happen three times in a row seems like a trend and not a coincidence to me. I wanted to open a discussion about this, get other peoples insight to see what they think, see, knowQuote:
Originally Posted by HanSolo90125
Never did I say the loser loot should be decreased - I said I am not sure what the solution should be or even if there needs to be a solution.
Oh yes, we are very lucky to get free winner loot from war. Again, I am the minority actually looking for a challenge and not a give me.
no, i'm sure the situation you describe is happening, though i don't think it's as widespread a problem as you believe. all of our wars in the past 3 weeks have seen people go for two or three stars, for example.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackieHope
it's pitiable that there are people who would use clan wars as a way to snipe 400 DE.
it's also pitiable that someone would use mass archers to get 30% loot on a TH9(?) base -- what is that, like 80-90k of gold/elixir? i'm fairly certain you could get more with mass archers just farming at virtually any range.
at the end of the day, i'd rather have a softer safety net for people to try, even if leechers marginally benefit.
what if, as you say, that extra 10% matters to people? would you prefer that people who continually lose in wars stop queueing, so that there are fewer wars overall? as bad as winning lopsided wars may be, i guarantee you that having no wars -- being in queue for days on end -- would be much worse.
My experience has been that with the old 20% loser loot (20% of a smaller amount, at that), when our clan lost some wars, lots of people left, because it was too expensive to try hard and lose. With the increased winning loot, and the increased percentage for the loser, I think that's somewhat mitigated, so that clans that are struggling with wars might be more inclined to keep warring and keep trying hard. If some clans feel that the loser loot is now high enough to war with the intent of losing, well, okay. I can't see that being a consideration other than for clans having many TH10s, because I doubt the loser loot for other TH levels is better than just doing farming raids.
Gotchya - I think we are on the same page now :)Quote:
Originally Posted by resnullius
Yes, I think this type of play and tactics is pitiable too but it is what it is and people always look for the easy way out. I am not saying there is a good solution or that there should be a solution at all, just wanted to see what others were seeing because 3 in a row seems like more than a coincidence to me.
come on, you have your perspective of what is interesting and fun, others think differently.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackieHope
You like tough war, mostly win and occasional lose. you have a fully active clan and good attacking skills.
Well not every clan is the same. Some play just for fun. Some just war once every few weeks and losing every war is not the most fun thing for them. Especially if they met a clan who had won 40+ wars of course they settle for war loot. Either that or they wont even try to 1 star.
Thus let them have their loot, your clan can practice 3 starring their toughest base. And when you meet your equal match, then you can have your fun war.....
I am meeting equal matched clans who just simply don't try - where is the fun in that? For me, my clan, their clan too. My clan plays for fun too - we are not hardcore war mongers, we enjoy this game too much to take it that seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by necro17000
By the way, my clan wasn't always a winning war clan (and we still lose a fair amount of real wars) with good attacking skills - we have worked hard to train our team to improve their skills and continue to each and every real war. We chose to get better and give our full effort to win our loot. We decided to be winners! Try harder! Get better! We did not choose to give up and accept loser loot with zero effort - again I seem to be the minority with this way of thinking.