Do you think heroes sleeping time too long? 6% more power with 10% longer sleep?

From lvl1 and up, each upgrade give merely 6% more HP/ATK but with 10% longer sleeping time. So lvl1 is the most efficient for farming, which makes little sense. If you look into the numbers, take King for example:

At lvl1, HP recovery per min = 1500/60 = 25 HP/min
At lvl5, 1755/84 = 20.89 HP/min
At lvl30, 4678/234 = 19.99 HP/min

On what earth is this "upgrade"? And see the difference between lvl1 and lvl5. Isn't it ridiculous?!

Sure higher level gives more stats and it certainly helps with trophy hunt. But trophy hunters are minority and most of top trophy hunters use gems ( no offense ) to cooldown heroes. They dont care much about the sleeping time. In the meanwhile most players use heroes for farm, and for fun. What fun is that if you have to wait hours to be able to use your toys for like 3 mins?

Some may argue shortening sleeping time would reduce SC's income from gemmers. Well, SC can reduce the sleeping time but increase the cooldown cost to maintain the gem cost. After all gemmers don't care much about the sleeping time. As long as the cost doesn't go up they don't care.

Similar issues happen to wizards/balloons. How many actually use these troops for farm? Very few.

Whats your thought?


-----------
Edit:

Just found out 6% boost per upgrade is even overrated already.

Level 1 -> Level 5:
Stats increase 17%
Sleeping time increase 40%

Didn't even realize it is this ridiculous!.............

Quote:

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Originally Posted by loonger

From lvl1 and up, each upgrade give merely 6% more HP/ATK but with 10% longer sleeping time. So lvl1 is the most efficient for farming, which makes little sense. If you look into the numbers, take King for example:

At lvl1, HP recovery per min = 1500/60 = 25 HP/min
At lvl30, it becomes 4678/234 = 19.99 HP/min

Why on earth is this "upgrade"?

Sure higher level gives more stats and it certainly helps with trophy hunt. But trophy hunters are minority and most of top trophy hunters use gems ( no offense ) to cooldown heroes. They dont care much about the sleeping time. In the meanwhile most players use heroes for farm, and for fun. What fun is that if you have to wait hours to be able to use your toys for like 3 mins?

Some may argue shortening sleeping time would reduce SC's income from gemmers. Well, SC can reduce the sleeping time but increase the cooldown cost to maintain the gem cost. After all gemmers don't care much about the sleeping time. As long as the cost doesn't go up they don't care.

Similar issues happen to wizards/balloons. How many actually use these troops for farm? Very few.

Whats your thought?

---

i think more on the wizard and balloon side, farmers want them in 3-5 minutes and trophy people dont care so if the put it around 4-6m each it would make alot more people use them. their cook time is the only reason i dont

Spent tons of time to upgrade BK to lvl5 at th7. Now I just don't use King too much. The "upgrade" just takes the fun. Not cool. :(

I always thought that the longer sleep time is due to more hp to regenerate at higher levels.

Obviously we can't expect a 2000 hp bk's regen time to b the same as a 5000 hp one.

Also, the dps is a factor when it comes to regen time as well. Imagine a 200 dps hero to regen the same time as a 120 dps hero.

So, 6% dps increase plus 6% hp increase, in return for 10% more regen time. Someone do the math.

I have a suggestion that I may make a thread about in the suggestion section unless somebody beats me to it....

My suggestion is let us make up a sleeping BK to come to battle even tho he is not 100%. Lots of people dont want to upgrade the BK because it adds regen time, but being able to wake him and take him into battle at any point would make that point moot. Lets say its your last battle of the night and you dont care if your BK is only at 50%, you'd rather have him just in case, it would be nice to have the option....:cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CHINOBEER

I have a suggestion that I may make a thread about in the suggestion section unless somebody beats me to it....

My suggestion is let us make up a sleeping BK to come to battle even tho he is not 100%. Lots of people dont want to upgrade the BK because it adds regen time, but being able to wake him and take him into battle at any point would make that point moot. Lets say its your last battle of the night and you dont care if your BK is only at 50%, you'd rather have him just in case, it would be nice to have the option....:cool:

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I thought he was going to work like this when I got him. I would live to see this added.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CHINOBEER

I have a suggestion that I may make a thread about in the suggestion section unless somebody beats me to it....

My suggestion is let us make up a sleeping BK to come to battle even tho he is not 100%. Lots of people dont want to upgrade the BK because it adds regen time, but being able to wake him and take him into battle at any point would make that point moot. Lets say its your last battle of the night and you dont care if your BK is only at 50%, you'd rather have him just in case, it would be nice to have the option....:cool:

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i'll have to agree with this. Why does BK need to be at 100% to fight? We should be able to bring him to battle despite him not being at full health. We just need an additional meat shield for gods sake!:mad:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CHINOBEER

I have a suggestion that I may make a thread about in the suggestion section unless somebody beats me to it....

My suggestion is let us make up a sleeping BK to come to battle even tho he is not 100%. Lots of people dont want to upgrade the BK because it adds regen time, but being able to wake him and take him into battle at any point would make that point moot. Lets say its your last battle of the night and you dont care if your BK is only at 50%, you'd rather have him just in case, it would be nice to have the option....:cool:

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It would be a good suggestion only if the regen time is not affected by damage per second.

However, the current balance of the game clearly states that regen time needs to be related to dps (why else would the regen time be 10% increase per upgrade when hp increase is only 6%?).

So, i don't see this happening unless the dps is reduced when the BK is not at full health.

I see your point, because the upgrade involves increased DPS, HP, and regen time. To be realistic, there is NO unit in the game that has reduced DPS as HP decreases. So your hero only loses HP on the battlefield, not DPS. So I think the hero only regenerates HP and not DPS. The suggestion is to simply be able to get the hero services early for the reduced HP since the DPS was never affected.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CHINOBEER

To be realistic, there is NO unit in the game that has reduced DPS as HP decreases. So your hero only loses HP on the battlefield, not DPS. So I think the hero only regenerates HP and not DPS. The suggestion is to simply be able to get the hero services early for the reduced HP since the DPS was never affected.

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It would be overpowering if u can use a BK at every raid with say, 1/6 of its HP but with maximum DPS. Too easy to exploit i think.

Imagine that on an Archer Queen, who is already very difficult to damage due to her range.

I still think they ”forgot” to reduce the regeneration time from upgrading when they reduced the initial regeneration time on a fresh level 1 hero. Think they reduced it from 3h to 1h if my memory serves me right. This was an awesome upgrade and heroes where used more frequently. But I don’t see any reason for upgrading them as long as the increase in reg. time is 6min with each upgrade, make it 2min and I will start upgrading my heroes!
On a side note the gem costs for waking heroes up “pre” time is around 3 times greater than say speeding up troops. Think they “forgot” to reduce this as well, not that it matters to me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sandalhat

It would be overpowering if u can use a BK at every raid with say, 1/6 of its HP but with maximum DPS. Too easy to exploit i think.

Imagine that on an Archer Queen, who is already very difficult to damage due to her range.

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Well I'm not sure how it would be exploited. Personally I would rather be attacked with an AQ or BK with 1/6 HP than with full HP. Of course SC doesn't mind a full powered hero every raid, every 5 minutes, if the gems are spent! :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CHINOBEER

I have a suggestion that I may make a thread about in the suggestion section unless somebody beats me to it....

My suggestion is let us make up a sleeping BK to come to battle even tho he is not 100%. Lots of people dont want to upgrade the BK because it adds regen time, but being able to wake him and take him into battle at any point would make that point moot. Lets say its your last battle of the night and you dont care if your BK is only at 50%, you'd rather have him just in case, it would be nice to have the option....:cool:

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I 100% agree. This is how it should be in all honesty. Farmers will be happy to be able to use a their toy whenever they feel like it, though at the cost of it going into battle partially damaged already, AND this won't prevent the gemmers from gemming their heroes to full HP after each fight. SC wins, gemmers win, AND the farmers win. All happy =]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CHINOBEER

Personally I would rather be attacked with an AQ or BK with 1/6 HP than with full HP.

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The option shd be whether u will prefer to be attacked by an army that has no Archer Queen, or an army that has an Archer Queen with 25% health, Since currently you can't use an AQ until she's fully healed.

If SC were to allow heroes to attack when in partial health, ALL TH9 attacks will have the AQ, unless they haven't "build" her yet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sandalhat

The option shd be whether u will prefer to be attacked by an army that has no Archer Queen, or an army that has an Archer Queen with 25% health, Since currently you can't use an AQ until she's fully healed.

If SC were to allow heroes to attack when in partial health, ALL TH9 attacks will have the AQ, unless they haven't "build" her yet.

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okay you obviously don't like the idea...i get it. Some points to address:

-- I would rather be attacked with no AQ on defense, I'd rather have a partial health AQ on offense.

-- ALL TH9 attacks may have an AQ. Maybe some people don't want a low HP AQ and wait it out.

-- As it stands all TH9 attacks may have an AQ using the gem "exploit".

-- If SC were to allow heroes to attack when in partial health I would not complain.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asasnator

I 100% agree. This is how it should be in all honesty. Farmers will be happy to be able to use a their toy whenever they feel like it, though at the cost of it going into battle partially damaged already, AND this won't prevent the gemmers from gemming their heroes to full HP after each fight. SC wins, gemmers win, AND the farmers win. All happy =]

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Well said. And this can somehow compensate the loot penalty for th9. Why not? SC should listen to this.

Option to use Heroes whenever we want is great regardless of remaining hitpoint (no need to be full).

On topic, as a farmer, I'm ok with longer sleeping time in exchange of increased HP and Damage output. Sometimes, I prefer to use Barb King as additional tank to get to central core for 1,000 - 2,000 DE. I don't care much if he need 1+ hour before next use, as long as he get the job done.

In my mind, it should be a case for he is either ready or he isn't, I don't really see the value of increasing his recoup time as he levels up as it is counter game intuitive, player has to decide if they want to upgrade it because it takes longer to regenerate, when you pay the upgrade price you should not be feeling this is a you win some you lose some situation.

You have worked hard to make the upgrade, waited for your hero to sleep as he has upgraded you should get all the benefits, increased life increased DPS. Much like normal units, when you level them up they don't take more time to build, they cost more to build, yes but you don't build a Hero, that's the point of all that hard work isn't it?

All I am saying is the increase recovery time is a sucky mechanic, and it is not actually needed. You invest a sizable chunk of resources into it there is the cost plain a simple. Less hoops and hurdles.

my idea if choosing the stats to upgrade (when you have the DE) is much better.

you can either

• increase DPS
• increase Hit-Points
• Decrease healing time

You can even implement this already, and give the ppl the equivalent number of points to the level that the hero already is.
You could also limit it to 10 upgrades per category, so that all lvl 30 hero's would be the same...but it gives a bit of variety before then.

The resason u can't use bk unless full hp is because of healer abuse. Bring to goblin map then heal to full with healer.

I think the time to regen increase per upgrade should just be removed completely. I won't upgrade my BK anymore.

When BK came out i saved DE to upgrade my BK to lv2, but realised I am better off not leveling it because i want to use it as much as possible every raid. Now i have AQ lv1 and BK lv1 and the DE i get i use on DE troops for speeding up my army camps.

https://www.youtube.com/user/Animuz1 you can see me farming effectively with BK and AQ + tier 1 troops destroying any base

Hmm, I met many people who said that they aren't upping their BK/AQ higher than lev6, because of the sleep times..... :(

Agree. Sleeping time should be cut down to half. Additionally, hero should be available while you upgrade them. The level 14 upgrade takes 7 days and by the time the upgrade is done, I'll have enough to upgrade him again. I feel I haven't been using him at all.

edit. Low level heroes should be balanced at least.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AngrehBard

I think the time to regen increase per upgrade should just be removed completely. I won't upgrade my BK anymore.

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I am doing exactly the same. Sad actually that the “upgrade” of the heroes ends up being an obstruction as you can use them much less frequently.
And that renders Dark Elixir rather useless other than for DE troop research -.-

I changed my mind that Heroes need to be ready only when full health.

Healer abuse in Goblin map seems likely the reason.
And Able to Deploy Archer Queen in every battle even she has only few HP can get annoying to the defender.

Taking the total hp / total regeneration time. We can calculate the HP regeneration Rate. When we plot this vs lvl, we find a minimum.
https://app.glassboard.com/web/api/b...f1e623919/data

The minimum happens around lvl16. We can see that the first 5 levels have the highest rate of hp regeneration. So, if regeneration rate is your primary concern, then keep your BK below lvl 5, otherwise take it all the way to 30.

AQ shows same results as far as the minimum, she just has a much lower rate overall due to her lower total hp at each level.

They won't cut sleeping time because they want impatient peoples to gem them back to life faster.

/End thread. Sad but true.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fakhouri

Hmm, I met many people who said that they aren't upping their BK/AQ higher than lev6, because of the sleep times..... :(

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Have you met me yet? :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by loonger

From lvl1 and up, each upgrade give merely 6% more HP/ATK but with 10% longer sleeping time. So lvl1 is the most efficient for farming, which makes little sense. If you look into the numbers, take King for example:

At lvl1, HP recovery per min = 1500/60 = 25 HP/min
At lvl5, 1755/84 = 20.89 HP/min
At lvl30, 4678/234 = 19.99 HP/min

On what earth is this "upgrade"? And see the difference between lvl1 and lvl5. Isn't it ridiculous?!

Sure higher level gives more stats and it certainly helps with trophy hunt. But trophy hunters are minority and most of top trophy hunters use gems ( no offense ) to cooldown heroes. They dont care much about the sleeping time. In the meanwhile most players use heroes for farm, and for fun. What fun is that if you have to wait hours to be able to use your toys for like 3 mins?

Some may argue shortening sleeping time would reduce SC's income from gemmers. Well, SC can reduce the sleeping time but increase the cooldown cost to maintain the gem cost. After all gemmers don't care much about the sleeping time. As long as the cost doesn't go up they don't care.

Similar issues happen to wizards/balloons. How many actually use these troops for farm? Very few.

Whats your thought?


-----------
Edit:

Just found out 6% boost per upgrade is even overrated already.

Level 1 -> Level 5:
Stats increase 17%
Sleeping time increase 40%

Didn't even realize it is this ridiculous!.............

---

Nice calculations. I sort of realized it wasnt worth it upgrading, but at TH8 there isn't much DE to spend on...

How about a regen boost that would cost gems to use just like the boosts from barracks, collectors and spell factory

I only have a lv1 BK , but if numbers you offer is true. I wouldn't agree more with you. I wish SC can fix this in the next update

i have BK level 4 and i know that it does take quite a while for him to regenerate. however, i have found that it is better to make him sleep before you go offline, because then when you come back on and start attacking, he will be ready. i know that many people use him for defense, but seroiusly thats a horrible job of defending he does.(unless of course you are attacked by pekkas) all you have to do is lure him in a undefended area with a couple troops, then when he is there you launch a bunch of troops on him. so my opinion is, you might find it more helpful to use heros for attacking, because you dont want to come back online with the desire to attack, but your hero is taking their beauty sleep.

BK is pretty awesome against the healer+giant combo. I like how he dismantles those Giants in seconds and screws up the entire raid overall.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sandalhat

I always thought that the longer sleep time is due to more hp to regenerate at higher levels.

Obviously we can't expect a 2000 hp bk's regen time to b the same as a 5000 hp one.

Also, the dps is a factor when it comes to regen time as well. Imagine a 200 dps hero to regen the same time as a 120 dps hero.

So, 6% dps increase plus 6% hp increase, in return for 10% more regen time. Someone do the math.

---

It makes sense to have a longer regeneration time to make up for the increased attack and health. Since the barbarian king isn't used in most attacks, it basically is more of a defensive troop. When I'm raiding I only get to use mine maybe every 3 raids. It's an addition to the army, and the increased regeneration time is easily explainable if you consider all the factors.

Stop bringing real life logic into a game when its not neccasary. People shouldn't be using the barb king on every possible farming attack. The barb king shouldn't be able to be used to every attack for when you are aiming for that 2 mil resources for that next upgrade. He gets upgrades like any normal troop but unlike them he doesn't cost elixir to go onto battle and doesn't take any space. IMO he is a guy you use when the battle is tough or to get a faster three star by using him on that builders but in the corner of the map if you are close to a three star but don't have much time and since he loses no health you don't need to regen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by loonger

From lvl1 and up, each upgrade give merely 6% more HP/ATK but with 10% longer sleeping time. So lvl1 is the most efficient for farming, which makes little sense. If you look into the numbers, take King for example:

At lvl1, HP recovery per min = 1500/60 = 25 HP/min
At lvl5, 1755/84 = 20.89 HP/min
At lvl30, 4678/234 = 19.99 HP/min

On what earth is this "upgrade"? And see the difference between lvl1 and lvl5. Isn't it ridiculous?!

Sure higher level gives more stats and it certainly helps with trophy hunt. But trophy hunters are minority and most of top trophy hunters use gems ( no offense ) to cooldown heroes. They dont care much about the sleeping time. In the meanwhile most players use heroes for farm, and for fun. What fun is that if you have to wait hours to be able to use your toys for like 3 mins?

Some may argue shortening sleeping time would reduce SC's income from gemmers. Well, SC can reduce the sleeping time but increase the cooldown cost to maintain the gem cost. After all gemmers don't care much about the sleeping time. As long as the cost doesn't go up they don't care.

Similar issues happen to wizards/balloons. How many actually use these troops for farm? Very few.

Whats your thought?


-----------
Edit:

Just found out 6% boost per upgrade is even overrated already.

Level 1 -> Level 5:
Stats increase 17%
Sleeping time increase 40%

Didn't even realize it is this ridiculous!.............

---

Yeah upgrading the heroes is a waste of DE in my opinion. I did calculation and figured the increase at 3.5% with the downtime being increased by 10%.

For one, there should never be a "penalty" for something that is expensive and costly to upgrade, especially when the upgrade is so ridiculously minimal.

Secondly, they could've easily made these heroes cap out at 5 or 10 levels and actually give a bigger bonus than 3-4% per upgrade, considering the upgrade costs. I could work my butt off for a month and maybe gain a few levels, but the increase in strength will not be noticeable because it is so minimal. What will be noticeable is the downtime being increased significantly.

These levels, upgrade costs, stat increases, and down times were not thought out... If they were, the only criteria that was considered in this thinking was "how can we make these upgrades as tedious as possible to encourage gem usage."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheMightyDavid

i have BK level 4 and i know that it does take quite a while for him to regenerate. however, i have found that it is better to make him sleep before you go offline, because then when you come back on and start attacking, he will be ready. i know that many people use him for defense, but seroiusly thats a horrible job of defending he does.(unless of course you are attacked by pekkas) all you have to do is lure him in a undefended area with a couple troops, then when he is there you launch a bunch of troops on him. so my opinion is, you might find it more helpful to use heros for attacking, because you dont want to come back online with the desire to attack, but your hero is taking their beauty sleep.

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That's stupid. Even if you let him defend your base, he will be recovered by the time you wake up. Every little bit of defending counts. There has been many situations where I had to attack a base with a defending BK and clan reinforcement troops. That's 20-30 troops wasted on reinforcement alone (in case you don't use lightning).

He's already been buffed and can take out quite a few troops.

Not to mention it takes 4 months of upgrade time alone to bring a hero from level 20 to level 30. That's 4 months of an occupied builder and the hero is unavailable. Unless you have a few hundred dollars lying around, it's ridiculous to even consider it.

I was just about to start a thread pretty much exactly like this. It takes a truly absurd amount of DE and builder time to max out heroes, I doubt anyone has done it yet without gemming, but the end result is a unit that you almost never get to use unless you are willing to spend even more gems to instant heal. If supercell were to leave the heal time at 60 min for all levels they would probably see a huge rush of people spending gems to start leveling heroes up. Max level heroes will still be a paying customer only item, just like maxed walls at TH 9, but it would at least give us non whales a reason to actually want our heroes leveled up.

Yeah, I have pretty much stopped leveling my barb king. The extra health doesn't compensate for the extra regen time, so the incentives aren't right for it. Unless they changed it so that the health/regen time ratio actually improved, not even remained unchanged, with each upgrade, I will continue to hold this stance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CHINOBEER

I have a suggestion that I may make a thread about in the suggestion section unless somebody beats me to it....

My suggestion is let us make up a sleeping BK to come to battle even tho he is not 100%. Lots of people dont want to upgrade the BK because it adds regen time, but being able to wake him and take him into battle at any point would make that point moot. Lets say its your last battle of the night and you dont care if your BK is only at 50%, you'd rather have him just in case, it would be nice to have the option....:cool:

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Seconded.... Would make a ton of sense

Doubt if they will fix this on next update. Recently have to use 2 healers and to prepare 2 healing spells to make sure BK doesn't sleep to long.

BTW, in case you dont know, healers only give half healing on Heros.

It's rediculous. Forcing heavy gemming is the only explanation to all these nonsense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CHINOBEER

I have a suggestion that I may make a thread about in the suggestion section unless somebody beats me to it....

My suggestion is let us make up a sleeping BK to come to battle even tho he is not 100%. Lots of people dont want to upgrade the BK because it adds regen time, but being able to wake him and take him into battle at any point would make that point moot. Lets say its your last battle of the night and you dont care if your BK is only at 50%, you'd rather have him just in case, it would be nice to have the option....:cool:

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This. This just makes so much more sense, especially with such a higher % increase in regen time when compared to stats increase.

If it added 3-4 minute on the upgrade instead 6 mins, it would have helped just a bit.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chiefvey

Not to mention it takes 4 months of upgrade time alone to bring a hero from level 20 to level 30. That's 4 months of an occupied builder and the hero is unavailable. Unless you have a few hundred dollars lying around, it's ridiculous to even consider it.

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It does sound crazy...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zachUVA

Yeah, I have pretty much stopped leveling my barb king. The extra health doesn't compensate for the extra regen time, so the incentives aren't right for it. Unless they changed it so that the health/regen time ratio actually improved, not even remained unchanged, with each upgrade, I will continue to hold this stance.

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So what do you think is a good level to stop leveling the barb king? One, five, eight?

I want my heroes at least at level 20. That way, I can get all the graphic changes on them (king with gold shoulderpad and gauntlet and queen with gold bow and crown). :D

It's for aesthetic reasons for me. ^^

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beancounter

So what do you think is a good level to stop leveling the barb king? One, five, eight?

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lv5 I think has the biggest jump but I'm not sure.:confused:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CHINOBEER

I have a suggestion that I may make a thread about in the suggestion section unless somebody beats me to it....

My suggestion is let us make up a sleeping BK to come to battle even tho he is not 100%. Lots of people dont want to upgrade the BK because it adds regen time, but being able to wake him and take him into battle at any point would make that point moot. Lets say its your last battle of the night and you dont care if your BK is only at 50%, you'd rather have him just in case, it would be nice to have the option....:cool:

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+1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RegaliaRemix

I want my heroes at least at level 20. That way, I can get all the graphic changes on them (king with gold shoulderpad and gauntlet and queen with gold bow and crown). :D

It's for aesthetic reasons for me. ^^

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♥♥♥♥ yep, I'm stopping at lv10.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sandalhat

I always thought that the longer sleep time is due to more hp to regenerate at higher levels.

Obviously we can't expect a 2000 hp bk's regen time to b the same as a 5000 hp one.

Also, the dps is a factor when it comes to regen time as well. Imagine a 200 dps hero to regen the same time as a 120 dps hero.

So, 6% dps increase plus 6% hp increase, in return for 10% more regen time. Someone do the math.

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Yes, I know this post was awhile ago, but you are forgetting one major point. The people with the 200 dps heroes SPENT THE TIME AND DE to upgrade them and get them to that level. They should rightfully have that advantage. Am I wrong?

Anyways, SC should really remove this debuff to the "upgrade" because it is a serious downer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asasnator

Yes, I know this post was awhile ago, but you are forgetting one major point. The people with the 200 dps heroes SPENT THE TIME AND DE to upgrade them and get them to that level. They should rightfully have that advantage. Am I wrong?

Anyways, SC should really remove this debuff to the "upgrade" because it is a serious downer.

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True. Face it guys. The current hero system is designed to be this way only because of the gemming factor. If COC is a $60 game without in-app purchase I highly doubt they will do it this way.