Clash of Clans is not a strategy game!

I have played two or three strategy games in the past few years, but all of them support one fact: Clash of Clans is not a strategy game! CoC is a good game to pass time, but it doesn't deserve to be called a strategy game by the general populace. For one, it doesn't have any time span for reaching other villages, and villages don't have specific positions that affect their time span(through distance). In all the games I have played, This has added a HUGE strategic factor to the game,. Also, it doesn't allow you to capture other villages for resources, another feature of many good strategy games. If this were possible(though there would have to be a village or group of villages that are impregnable to attack, so that it is easy to get back in the game if you are away long enough to lose all your other villages, you can still get back in the game quickly(assuming you have a good strategy for such an event)), then you could consider CoC as a true strategy game, but there are not enough factors for planning, a key factor in strategy(and subsequently strategy games), to be of as much use as it should be, in my opinion. I would like to see who here agrees with me, and why the game is designed in this way

EDIT: I am sorry for being unclear, but by time limit I meant time span. Also, I forgot to add that this should be affected by distance to the village from the farthest of the attacking units

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Originally Posted by jason1stlegion

I have played two or three strategy games in the past few years, but all of them support one fact: Clash of Clans is not a strategy game! CoC is a good game to pass time, but it doesn't deserve to be called a strategy game by the general populace. For one, it doesn't have any time limit for reaching other villages. In all the games I have played, This has added a HUGE strategic factor to the game. Also, it doesn't allow you to capture other villages for resources, another feature of many good strategy games. If this were possible(though there would have to be a village or group of villages that are impregnable to attack, so that it is easy to get back in the game if you are away long enough to lose all your other villages, you can still get back in the game quickly(assuming you have a good strategy for such an event)), then you could consider CoC as a true strategy game, but there are not enough factors for planning, a key factor in strategy(and subsequently strategy games), to be of as much use as it should be, in my opinion. I would like to see who here agrees with me, and why the game is designed in this way

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then why do I feel like a strategist every time I upgrade another wall to level 11?

Your examples are strange. You're saying because it doesn't have a few features other strategy games you have played have make it not a strategy game. You have to plan attacks, create troop combo's, trap placement, predict where attacks will come from, manage upgrades, predict where the troops will go with the AI etc. There's a lot of strategy involved in the game to be honest.

I agree to doesnt take a lot of strategy to win battles. Apart from 3 star hogging th10s.

I know what kind of games the OP is talking about, and i can make arguements to say yours isnt much strategy either. While your game may be more of a war game, both games involve lots of strategic planning. What troops to use, what to upgrade and when, how to get pay back.

Yeah it's really not a strategy game. I don't think a mobile game can be a true strategy game. It takes a pc game to really get in-depth.

interesting post OP, i would say there is strategy to the game to quite a wide extent for a mobile game. its a shame we can't discuss other mobile games to compare it to. Time limits are for faster paced strategy games, this is not a fast paced strategy game, its casual.

Boom beach has all those factors if you don't like this game go play that since you like waiting you will love waiting 14 hours to find a free village.

I would say that CoC is a strategy game, but of course it won't be as "in depth" as some of the others out there. The making of troops (as in combinations), protecting of resources, trap placement, and the experience that comes with raiding time after time are all strategic parts of this game. And as I saw somebody say, it is a casual strategic game. Not all people looking for some strategy have hours at a time to spend in front of their computer!

There is strategy in base design, and attack among other things. I would argue the games you're talking about are not as in-depth as others - civilization for example.

Every game is different with different reason to play, and different amounts of time to play them.

i would say(suppose the op is right), it is the unpredictable(stupid) AI that make it a lotto instead of a strategy game

Well by this logic,we can debate that mass effect isn't a shooter game because you can't ride tanks and other cars like you can in halo.
You are connecting 2 diffrent stuff.
what defines a stratagy game is...well strategy,you planning how to attack and how to defend.
nothing more and nothing less. two games of same genre can be very diffrent,they don't all have to be the same game that you like,otherwise that will suck,they all simply have the same core gameplay idea

Your argument is borderline idiotic.

You are saying that CoC is not a strategy game because:
a) it doesn't have time limit to reach other villages. What the hell does that suppose to mean anyway?

b) it doesn't allow you to capture (i assume u mean conqeur) other villages. You are talking about a whole different game here. Just because CoC doesn't work like some of the other game you play doesn't make it any less strategic.

Strategy- a plan, method, or series of maneuvers or stratagems for obtaining a specific goal or result:

We do this in CoC therefore it is a strategy game.

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Originally Posted by legoman7409

Strategy- a plan, method, or series of maneuvers or stratagems for obtaining a specific goal or result:

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Wouldn't that definition make nearly every game a strategy game in a tautology sense? Action shooting games has plans to kill people. Games where you simply farm like Hay Day is a strategy game since you plan your path to grow the farm.

It takes 0 (ZERO) skill/strategy to farm with barch... Only time or money are required.
(click next 100 times till you find a collector raid then drop barch and you repeat 2 billion times and get max walls)

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Originally Posted by Sirix

Wouldn't that definition make nearly every game a strategy game in a tautology sense? Action shooting games has plans to kill people. Games where you simply farm like Hay Day is a strategy game since you plan your path to grow the farm.

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Technically speaking yes. That means every game is a strategy game. Therefore the OP's complaint is invalid.

[QUOTE=Sirix;3148188]

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Originally Posted by legoman7409

Strategy- a plan, method, or series of maneuvers or stratagems for obtaining a specific goal or result: /QUOTE]

Wouldn't that definition make nearly every game a strategy game in a tautology sense? Action shooting games has plans to kill people. Games where you simply farm like Hay Day is a strategy game since you plan your path to grow the farm.

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Exactly. Ur figuring it out!

Clash of Clans has a lot of strategy in it. It doesn't have to be like every other strategy game you've played to be one. :)

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Originally Posted by Frozenarmy

It takes 0 (ZERO) skill/strategy to farm with barch... Only time or money are required.
(click next 100 times till you find a collector raid then drop barch and you repeat 2 billion times and get max walls)

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Depends on how you are farming. Dead bases, minimum or close to 0 skill. Active bases where you need to a) time your barbarian drops to distract defenses at critical raid phases and b) time your spell drops at the null window phase in order to gain maximum damage and movement output do require skills.

What definition for strategy game is different for each players. But yeah, Clash is like, more luck than planning. With gems added here and there to sometimes tip the balance in your favor.

Ermm....that is basically what Boom Beach is lol. But there is strategy. Base design, troops combos, upgrade order, etc.

I think that CoC is a strategy game, but the game mostly rewards time and money.

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Originally Posted by legoman7409

Strategy- a plan, method, or series of maneuvers or stratagems for obtaining a specific goal or result:

We do this in CoC therefore it is a strategy game.

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CoC does require some short-term planning, but long term is woefully irrelevant, except for positioning objects in your village. and that is too easy to do for you to have to plan in advance. So CoC is technically​ a strategy game, but not enough to be considered one

A lot of people are saying that what I am describing(I am OP) is the same as boom beach. but the crucial element is the time taken to reach places. Supercell got a good idea in making areas hidden until you had an island that was close enough to scout them, but that is not what I am talking about. I am saying that time difference can force you to look at all of your fleets, and that positioning(boom beach does have this factor) can work with it to make you think about where to attack next and what to capture. you could take over a completely worthless village for no other reason than to store troops for an attack on a more valuable village nearby, but there is no need for this in boom beach if you can see the island, so it has a different gameplay than what I'm suggesting.

it is a strategy game however there isnt much strategy in casual raiding most of the strategy is rly in clan wars

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Originally Posted by namless

it is a strategy game however there isnt much strategy in casual raiding most of the strategy is rly in clan wars

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True, I guess. It's still strategy in dealing with people, just not in gameplay (not in the fights during clan wars even, from my limited experience, though choosing your enemies involves some strategy)

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Originally Posted by jason1stlegion

CoC does require some short-term planning, but long term is woefully irrelevant, except for positioning objects in your village. and that is too easy to do for you to have to plan in advance. So CoC is technically​ a strategy game, but not enough to be considered one

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I don't understand. Coc involves everything mentioned in this definition. There is no maybe. Either it is a strategy game or it is not. Not it has some, but not enough. CoC has plenty of strategy and is therefore considered a strategy game.

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Originally Posted by legoman7409

I don't understand. Coc involves everything mentioned in this definition. There is no maybe. Either it is a strategy game or it is not. Not it has some, but not enough. CoC has plenty of strategy and is therefore considered a strategy game.

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by that definition every game is strategy, as i think has been said before. Everything has some strategy, so what this thread considers is whether CoC has enough to count as a strategy game.

This whole thread is built upon a "No True Scotsman" argument (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman).

"Clash of Clans is not a strategy game!"

"But what about strategic elements A, B, and C?"

"Those don't count! Clash of Clans is not a TRUE strategy game!"


As No True Scotsman is a fallacy (and one of the more egregious ones at that), the only thing that the OP has conclusively proven is that he is an idiot.

Checkmate.

Maybe you should play Boom Beach...

Clash is designed like that though, it's about your attack strategy, not as much defensive strat. And...we don't "capture villages"

This is a strategy game. Evidence: the manner in which you design your bases to protect your resources from being looted. There is a whole sub-forum on base design. The leveling of your defenses that tie into your base design. You level your defense to account for troops and their damage/hitpoint abilities. What to upgrade and when. What type of troops do I request while my defenses are down due to upgrades. Do I protect my townhall or not to take advantage of the shield to protect my loot from farming or warring. That is just the defensive side of it. I will not go into the offensive side of it because I think the point has been made. That is what sets the better players apart from the average ones. The better ones understand that it is a strategy game! Good thread btw!

base design = distance
there you go.


further explanation?
base design will determine the distance from where you drop your troops going to the defensive or resource structures. you have options to place walls or decide where and when to drop troops and spells.

This is like saying a chocolate chip muffin is not a muffin because it doesn't have blueberry like the blueberry muffin.

For me COC is a muffin.

But it is up to you to put COC on any category as per your reference because it won't go anywhere.

no wonder I'm hooked with CoC..because its not a strategy game and I'm a non-strategic player, I only use lvl1 troops (barb+archer), what a noob.

The error the OP and some others are making is that they consider the word "strategy" to be a value judgment. It's not.
This type of discussion is similar to the "golf isn't a real sport" types of arguments that pop up over and over in sports media.

Based on the dictionaries definition of the word, COC is a game that requires strategy. The real discussion should be about how elevated the strategic thought process is for a typical player. It's not Chess or Go, but it's not Chutes and Ladders either.

I totally disagree with you, clash of clans is an addicting game and also strategy. No game can be better than clash.

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Originally Posted by DarkHero

No game can be better than clash.

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another argument starter right there XD

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Originally Posted by jason1stlegion

I have played two or three strategy games in the past few years, but all of them support one fact: Clash of Clans is not a strategy game! CoC is a good game to pass time, but it doesn't deserve to be called a strategy game by the general populace. For one, it doesn't have any time span for reaching other villages, and villages don't have specific positions that affect their time span(through distance).

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So true. The term "strategy game" was invented in 2011 by an independent panel of video game publishers who declared that all villages must take hours to reach. It's certainly not a term that has been used for hundreds of years before computers or video games were existed to describe games that require strategy, often played on a board with tangible pieces, like chess, checkers, othello, stratego, mancala, dominoes, etc. :rolleyes:

You have to remember this is a small game meant for casual mobile device play, not a true game that you would play for several hours at one go. Yes some people stay onlin for several hours in coc, but most of that time they do bot even look at the screen as there is nothing to play for.

Money wins it ALL
Einstein can't win massive gemers.

It was... Before they do too many stupid changes.

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Originally Posted by Frozenarmy

It takes 0 (ZERO) skill/strategy to farm with barch... Only time or money are required.
(click next 100 times till you find a collector raid then drop barch and you repeat 2 billion times and get max walls)

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Actually, strategy refers to long-term planning, while tactics is what is meant by how troops are deployed.

So, barch is a great strategy, and using it is strategically one of the best moves any clasher can make to advance their long term goals, since economic planning is vital to success, especially for those who don't have endless time to play video games.

Meanwhile, I would agree with I think you meant to say, which is that tactically it is far less difficult to master than most any other army composition.

I can't believe people actually argued the definition of strategy with the op. Somethings in life can't be fixed fellas.

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Originally Posted by jason1stlegion

I have played two or three strategy games in the past few years, but all of them support one fact: Clash of Clans is not a strategy game! CoC is a good game to pass time, but it doesn't deserve to be called a strategy game by the general populace. For one, it doesn't have any time span for reaching other villages, and villages don't have specific positions that affect their time span(through distance). In all the games I have played, This has added a HUGE strategic factor to the game,. Also, it doesn't allow you to capture other villages for resources, another feature of many good strategy games. If this were possible(though there would have to be a village or group of villages that are impregnable to attack, so that it is easy to get back in the game if you are away long enough to lose all your other villages, you can still get back in the game quickly(assuming you have a good strategy for such an event)), then you could consider CoC as a true strategy game, but there are not enough factors for planning, a key factor in strategy(and subsequently strategy games), to be of as much use as it should be, in my opinion. I would like to see who here agrees with me, and why the game is designed in this way

EDIT: I am sorry for being unclear, but by time limit I meant time span. Also, I forgot to add that this should be affected by distance to the village from the farthest of the attacking units

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Just curious, did you ever play evony?

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Originally Posted by DerinJosw

you must be special. Try spamming all your troops in the same spot and see if you get the same % everytime, dumb.

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This. I'm just going to assume the OP hasn't used higher level troop compositions or attacked any well made bases. Farming is one aspect of the game. Like many games out there, farming is used to progress to the point in the game where strategy is actually needed.

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Originally Posted by Nellybelly

Maybe you should play Boom Beach...

Clash is designed like that though, it's about your attack strategy, not as much defensive strat. And...we don't "capture villages"

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That was just one suggestion(sorry for being unclear)

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Originally Posted by Deccapio

Just curious, did you ever play evony?

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no, I haven't. It seems interesting from the description, but I'll have to try it out to comment

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Originally Posted by TheProfessor

This. I'm just going to assume the OP hasn't used higher level troop compositions or attacked any well made bases. Farming is one aspect of the game. Like many games out there, farming is used to progress to the point in the game where strategy is actually needed.

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you're right, but I have some friends who have, and I observed their gameplay. That was actually what prompted this thread, since they were using even less strategy than I had, following just these rules:
Barbarians/goblins first (depending on the person)
archers second
put them as close to the storages/town hall as you can (again, depending on the person)

As for defense, they had their storages around their town hall, and then mortars, and then an assortment of cannons third. Then there were barracks at the edge of the village.

Then u just deploy troops u dont make an strategy to attack...

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Originally Posted by jason1stlegion

you're right, but I have some friends who have, and I observed their gameplay. That was actually what prompted this thread, since they were using even less strategy than I had, following just these rules:
Barbarians/goblins first (depending on the person)
archers second
put them as close to the storages/town hall as you can (again, depending on the person)

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Dude, those are not high level gameplay.

We are talking about 3starring maxed bases with GoWiPe, GoWiWi, BallaVian, Holowiwi, GoVaWi etc etc.

You are starting to embarrass yourself. Claiming that this game is not strategic when you only know less than half of the total gameplay experience is just naive.

I think of it as a strategy game....... just because holding other peoples towns and timezones are not in does not make it a non-strategy game. I mean, thinking of it. You cannot place your barbarian king anywhere, and expect him to 100% the base. You need to place him in a good position, placing good enough wall breakers, tanks, figure out where the troop placement will be, what defenses will stop you......

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Originally Posted by jason1stlegion

no, I haven't. It seems interesting from the description, but I'll have to try it out to comment

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Oh gotcha...
Just seemed very similar to what you were talking about. Troop walking distance and taking over cities has is VERY important in that game. Though the battles themselves aren't very strategic.

The OP described boom beach, what makes me think that he sees BB as a strategy game. But IMO, that have already played both, COC have much more strategy factors involved.

Of course you can play both, CoC and BB without any strategy, but that would result in a fail on both (and a bigger fail on CoC).

Conclusion: CoC is a strategy game. Only because other strategy games you play have factors that CoC doesn't, it wont make CoC less dependent on strategy.

I don't have the energy to read the entire thread after that OP, no facts what so ever, no other description of the game etc.

There's a lot of strategy games that are different from eachother, I have no idea what you would call CoC other then a strategy game.

OP, you are being silly. CoC is pretty heavily based on RTS games (that stands for Real-Time Strategy, btw) like Age of Empires. They got rid of direct unit control by only allowing us to choose what/where/when to place, but other than that, it's pretty much an RTS. Your examples of what a true strategy game should have are pretty optional at best.

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Originally Posted by jason1stlegion

I have played two or three strategy games in the past few years, but all of them support one fact: Clash of Clans is not a strategy game! CoC is a good game to pass time, but it doesn't deserve to be called a strategy game by the general populace. For one, it doesn't have any time span for reaching other villages, and villages don't have specific positions that affect their time span(through distance). In all the games I have played, This has added a HUGE strategic factor to the game,. Also, it doesn't allow you to capture other villages for resources, another feature of many good strategy games. If this were possible(though there would have to be a village or group of villages that are impregnable to attack, so that it is easy to get back in the game if you are away long enough to lose all your other villages, you can still get back in the game quickly(assuming you have a good strategy for such an event)), then you could consider CoC as a true strategy game, but there are not enough factors for planning, a key factor in strategy(and subsequently strategy games), to be of as much use as it should be, in my opinion. I would like to see who here agrees with me, and why the game is designed in this way

EDIT: I am sorry for being unclear, but by time limit I meant time span. Also, I forgot to add that this should be affected by distance to the village from the farthest of the attacking units

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Just an FYI...

http://forum.supercell.net/image/png...AASUVORK5CYII=

it might not be a strategy game like that but it still falls under the definition of strategy

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Originally Posted by jason1stlegion

I have played two or three strategy games in the past few years, but all of them support one fact: Clash of Clans is not a strategy game! CoC is a good game to pass time, but it doesn't deserve to be called a strategy game by the general populace. For one, it doesn't have any time span for reaching other villages, and villages don't have specific positions that affect their time span(through distance). In all the games I have played, This has added a HUGE strategic factor to the game,. Also, it doesn't allow you to capture other villages for resources, another feature of many good strategy games. If this were possible(though there would have to be a village or group of villages that are impregnable to attack, so that it is easy to get back in the game if you are away long enough to lose all your other villages, you can still get back in the game quickly(assuming you have a good strategy for such an event)), then you could consider CoC as a true strategy game, but there are not enough factors for planning, a key factor in strategy(and subsequently strategy games), to be of as much use as it should be, in my opinion. I would like to see who here agrees with me, and why the game is designed in this way

EDIT: I am sorry for being unclear, but by time limit I meant time span. Also, I forgot to add that this should be affected by distance to the village from the farthest of the attacking units

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Clash of clans has strategy, if it didn't you could build random units and spawn them random places on the map and the results would be the same no matter what.

You are right that it does not take a great amount of finesse to go out and BARCH for loot or spam Hogs or Dragons. War attacks (and more specifically war attack order) require a bit of strategy. It also teaches lessons about the greater good and cooperation. On top of attacking and upgrade priorities, building a clan takes more strategy than anything I have done recently. Effective marketing, managing individual personalities, and finding correct mix of player levels for beneficial war match-ups all require strategy. On the surface you may be correct but underneath there is great deal going on here.