For some reason I always seem to find great loot in the morning and terrible loot in the afternoon (European time)
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For some reason I always seem to find great loot in the morning and terrible loot in the afternoon (European time)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wip3ed
I've tried a few times to respond to this but i cant get away from the fact that you say this as a farmer...
the very individual that Supercell wish didnt exist.
You should be attacking better bases not crushing children into the ground.
You should also be properly rewarded for attacking better bases and winning... this will give you the resources you need to upgrade and get better - higher up the food chain.
Handing out free resources under the same loot/reward system isnt the answer.
Also having shields for a th snipe or leaving the th with no loot is not the answer.
1 star should be well rewarded..
2 star should be better rewarded...
Getting the TH should come with a bonus - why not from the defenders resources?
3 star should be the most rewarded.
Dropping cups to farm lower bases should never happen and should come with penalties.
You raid to progress... you do not progress to become a bully. (Or use BAM/BARCH when all your troops are maxed)
The economy at the moment isnt generating enough resources to provide for all who live in it.
this is called a recession.
The recession is caused by the systematic removal/de-prioritization of dead bases.
If Supercell what you to attack properly and not farm then they need to reward you for getting better not cripple our resources so you cannot continue high level raiding.
This situation calls for a redesign of what makes you attack a base.
the resources you need to progress has to come from beating a base not solely cherry picking objects (storages/collectors) in a base.
We would all like this loot situation sorted out sooner rather than later but if you understand that simply adding dead bases/more league bonuses etc will only serve to plug the hole and that it never fixes the problem of 'FARMING', then you will realise that to fix this game it will take a huge change in attitude.
Supercell love balance, this isnt a simple tweak its an attacking re-design.
I really think biggest issue with loot is th sniping. Now most people put th outside for a snipe. I have been sitting with almost full resourse storages and still almost every time get sniped. Usually i see about 1/40 attacks to my village others than snipe.
When you are nexting, do you realize these low loot villages you see have most of time th inside. They are less active players. Best loot come from inactives or active farmers. These farmers have often nice loot and th on corner. You just have to be lucky to find them before they get sniped in seconds.
So again. Th should hold some % of loot. And yes, every star should give better win bonus. Shield should also come from dmg done to base, not just that th plus some more at end. Like 2 hours for every 10% dmg done or something like that.
And last, don't cry about bad loot if you aren't ready to risk your resources. This game is about competition. Its not working now as everyone who play more than once a day are hiding behind easy shield.
Havnt raided in 3 days :cool: Is loot better yet?
Stupid question never mind:rolleyes:
I support that idea but found out if you come out for it you'll eat ♥♥♥♥ so I figured if you can't beat them join themQuote:
Originally Posted by Kaagelus
If biggest loot issue is th sniping, why only certain town hall levels have loot issue ? Farmers are everywhere at every th levels. Why we don't have th 6 with loot issue ?
Th6's don't know th outside thingy yet....
At around th8 ppl starts realize, you get penalized when you protect th.
Edit: If i lose almost zero resources on attacks to me because of sniping, why should others doing same, lose less? Means, you'll almost never see us with resources. Yeah, th sniping isn't a issue...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaagelus
Same here. At TH9 and my storages always offer nice loot. The snipers give me a shield instead. IMO, THs should hold more than 1k of resources. Probably your first 50k or so.... that would at least give the person tossing their TH outside a reason to contemplate if losing 50k/50k is worth a shield.
The problem is, leaving your TH outside is the most effective way of protecting your resources. Let’s face it, even if you put 50% of the resources in the TH you are still better off to keep it outside your base.
When my TH is inside I can hit 3 or 4 times before someone hits my TH or gets 40%, I can lose over 100,000 or so of each if they get to 1 storage and a bunch of mines and pumps. I could still end up losing less by leaving my TH outside, I get hit once, I look 100,000 let’s say instead of 4 time for 300 or 400.
Sure I can wake up to over 60 cups, but who cares.
In other words, putting more resources in the TH will not stop sniping.
I'm a town 9 with a 390 gold grabbed, i played this game for 10 month now i decide to make some calc.
Gold Grab:395 milion
Gold earned by mines:85 milions
My base worth about 400 milion gold
So 80 milion disappered in nothing?
Of course not, they have been spent on nexting and losed on difence (trap+ gold losed)
80 milion/~270 days= 275k gold losed per day.
Put 175-200k losed in raid( and trap)
And 80-100k in nexting
The point of this tread is======> I losed about 30 milion gold in nexting
Now, i don't play this game 10 hours a day, 1-4 max hour unbosted.
Imagine how much gold is wasted on nexting by player that bost.
Bilion and bilions of gold wasted......
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoardGuest808888
Cause you dont start the game at TH10 and you can get to TH6 in a matter of weeks...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonioca
Expand your mind a little.
Youre thinking about it in the current game setup and focusing on 1 aspect.
What happens if you wake up to 2-300k along with your 60 cups. (Which you got for having a good base setup after all your work.)
Hypothetical i know but the game needs a change in direction not 1 simple tweak.
Wouldn't SuperCell love farmers because they take loot out of the economy for the casual player, forcing him/her to gem?Quote:
Originally Posted by Keywal
A major problem IS Townhall sniping. Adding loot to the townhall would make bigger bases appear in the queue, but it does not inject loot into the system or reward defenses. The solution has to be on multiple fronts. Supercell does the following things and this game would be amazing again, and I for one would go back to spending $10-$20 a month on gem purchases to boost my big armies.
1. Add some loot to the TH. Make it equal to a gold/elixir storages
2. Do something with nexting cost so it doesn't disappear into nothing. Idea I like the best is every time my base is skipped, that nexting gold goes into a bank that the attacker who finally takes me out would get. It would reward high level play and reward you for taking on difficult bases, it would also add loot to loot poor bases making them more desirable later potentially.
3. Lower trap re arming costs, current loot does not warrant 200k plus rearming costs, it's really crazy high. Last time I re armed the bill was 236k gold... Really?!? That is multiple raids now for just traps not counting resources lost in the raid...
4. Make defense wins mean something other then the privilege of re arming overpriced traps and useless trophies or the wonderful chance to lose to second or third attacker losing resources over and over... If manipulation is the concern then add a % to it so ppl cant drop 1 troop and give bonus
5. Increase collector output 25% or more. However, if the other changes were made, this may not be necessary
6. League bonus multiplier... 2* worth more then 1* etc... Reward bigger accomplishments
7. Further discourage bots, any activity by them is too much
8. Elixir for walls needs addressed.. Either make it so only elixir above X amount can be used for walls leaving some elixir for theft, or make only lvl 10+ walls for elixir, or some other elixir solution. Being able to burn all your resources on walls is too much, elixir is the lifeblood of the game, NOT gold... Again, if the oer changes are made, this one may not be needed
Do those things and th10s will immediately start seeing full storages in their queues again and people with near maxed defenses like me will break shields again and probably put our townhalls inside
The snipping problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaagelus
I know guys with th7s in masters living off the loot bonus.
They stay online all day to avoid attacks(how I don't know)..
Remove the loot plenty for revenge !
A TH6/7 that takes out a TH9 or TH10 town, should not be protected by the loot plenty.
Also allow revenge even when a base is under a shield !!
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordAmbreon
Hardly.... Farmers farm cause the system allows it and is the fastest way - without buying gems - to progress.
Stopping farming in favour of active, good players would be more financially beneficial to Supercell.
Barracks boosting, SF boosting, instantly upgrading that arch tower cause im losing defences on that side... etc.
right now its put the TH outside and raid raid raid raid... sleep... get sniped.... raid raid raid.
Why not enjoy an attack with a huge expensive army that you spent 2 years upgrading to then be rewarded for doing well? :)
People have been using the TH outside defensive technique since the early stages of the game. It's not the cause of bad loot issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaagelus
Loot getting worse has not been a slowly evolving thing - Loot got worse, in abrupt steps, every time SC made economy related updates.
We know and were not saying its the cause we are saying it doesnt help the situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by pmos69
its just a symptom of the game mechanics that need to be changed.
Yes, but going that way doesn't counter the root issue (not enough resources being produced vs being consumed at higher th levels - especially since the elix-for-walls update).Quote:
Originally Posted by Keywal
Discouraging th outside layouts might be better implemented in some way that actually introduces resources in the economy, such as a loot bonus for defensive wins.
I agree, I was just trying to say that focusing on that one aspect of the game will not fix the over all issue. It's complicated and I don't blame SC for taking there time and trying to get it right the first time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keywal
The real problem is this lack of communication. We don't really know anything. Do they think it's an issue? We don't really know. Are they working on it? Well, we don't even know if they think it's an issue, so how can we tell if they are working on it. They may be disusing it, that much we do know, or do we?
Im sorry, but you are dead wrong. For two months in my last farming session in high crystal, low masters, I was not attacked once for my storage loot! This is despite having filled storages most of the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by pmos69
If this is happening to me, i guarantee it is happening everywhere. Adding loot to the townhall is one of several changes they need to do to bring up the loot totals earned and the fun back into the game at its highest tier of play. My previous post a few back addresses them.
The reasons lower townhall sniping doesnt adversely affect the game is very simple. Upgrades are very cheap and loot is plentiful because everyone can play in a very casual way and still progress just fine. Semi active players are the key point, they log in every couple days, dink around, and log off. Or they break shields over and over leaving their storages for grabs to a bigger army. Since lower townhalls are easy to crush, people have fun, AND progress any way they choose.
At th10 this dynamic drastically changes, and before that somewhat at th9, although th9 still gets to crush th8s for easy loot at will... Our upgrades are crazy expensive, we have to play for hours to accrue anything significant, and the most important thing is we manage our shields. You will never get loot from my collectors unless i cant log in for some reason. I time my playing sessions to break my shields, and I logout with my TH outside to be 99% sniped. Active players have either full storages but get sniped so they arent in the queue or they have empty storages and are left in the queue. Inactive th10s get pushed back into the queue and or down in trophies and disappear.
About what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcman
Completly redesigning the lootsystem is of course something else than just increasing TH storrage, that by itself is just a terrible idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keywal
Can't see a complete redesign comming as this is the most sucesessfull f2p-p2w game in the world and the formula makes SuperCell millions of dollars every day. So you need to have a really well thought out idea on all levels to make them listen to you. Whats good for our playability isn't necesarry good for their bankaccount.
Fully agree and will point you back to my original post where i countered the gem purchasing situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by wip3ed
This is unfortunately only my perception of how it could turn out so again i agree it needs to be air tight for Supercells bottom line but think of it this way...Quote:
Originally Posted by Keywal
there are those that farm and those that dont.
Those that farm are trying to upgrade their base to compete with the best players.
those that dont are already competing.
What if those that farmed were encouraged to compete as this was how they progressed. (Gained the most resources)
Like i've said a few times now... what are we upgrading our bases for??
to get better of course, to compete more.
but if we spend our time farming then one day have to say, 'Dam, how do i actually raid with the big troops now?' then years of effort is wasted.
If we put our focus on completing from the start, focus our gem spending on completing then this can only be good for Supercell. Competing in this game could potentially never end... upgrading defences will end when your base is maxed.
anyway, i hope you get what im trying to say... there are many ways in which Supercell could earn money... and us loot AKA progression... but it should be about the very nature of the game and not being a coward behind a shield.
Hit the nail in the head.Quote:
Originally Posted by wip3ed
If they want to try completely new ideas they'll probably do it in new games, not in the non-stop worldwide n1 grossing app in apple and google stores. That would be completely idiotic, and they're not idiots.
Personally, I even think most of the more deep economy related tweaks they've done have made playability worse, so I rather fear any big changes they make in that area.
Actually no it wouldn't be a terrible idea. If you were to say that it doesn't solve the problem of creating more loot into the economy then you'd have a point.Quote:
Originally Posted by wip3ed
If you have lots of loot as a developed TH9 or a TH10, the safest place to go is in the Crystal leagues with your TH out. You will get TH sniped 100% of the time, at no cost to you. So much loot is hiding under cheap shields there. There should be an opportunity cost that changes people's behavior when holding a moderate amount of loot to holding brimming storages where they have to decide whether they sacrifice 20% of the availability, or bring it in and hope they can pull a 40%+ defense/loss with minimal storage loss. Again, this doesn't address the problem of all the bases with 50k/50k in storages, but it would start opening up some stocked storages that otherwise get immediately sniped for the league bonus.
You, personally, getting attacked is irellavant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcman
It's 100% update related. Starting with the December loot update and the uproar that basically never stopped up to today and the major uproar over the Lix for walls.
In each case loot was gonna be almost instantly. It's not rocket science. Good was bad because there is always things to use it on. Elixer you ran out if things to use it in so people would max it because there was nothing to do with it. Now it all goes into walls and there is none left to raid. People even admit it.
To say it isn't update related means you don't really pkay this game, or you're a shill, or you're trying to stir the pot.
But changes don't need to be made. They need to just put things back.Quote:
Originally Posted by pmos69
We would see 400/400/3000 bases routiney, almost overnight. Just like we used to.
See? Nothing to argue. There us no debate here. Those bases used to be plentiful. Updates come, now they are not.
And SC has the nerve to say the updates helped!!! Yeah, their bottom line, and only temporarily since now peeps are leaving.
Just like the gutting the heroes made them "better". Have we ever seen a company that has the stones to lie this blatantly? They obviously think we are stupid.
Exactly. Under the current system you get punished severely for defending. I'd love to put my TH back inside my base and watch people's failed raids. Unfortunately it takes at least 2 - 3 attacks before someone gets 40% or better, and every attacker gets some loot and sets off traps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonioca
If they lowered the threshold to get a defensive shield, or put a cap on how much loot you could lose before getting a defensive shield, I'd put my TH inside in a heartbeat.
As it stands, they could make the TH worth 100K or 200K and it would still be worth it to leave outside for a snipe.
You have to think a little bigger, not one very small example about how you think it is in one specific league. Real farmers don't hide behind shields very much. Thats what people with TH inside do. Ive had Maximum avaliable loot in my storrages most of the time since TH8 and they are avalible to raid at least ten times a day. If you really want to attack People with THs inside, climb higher. You wont find very much loot there, as the mechanics you ask for excist up there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goobers
These are all perfect. And yes like you said, if #1,2,4,6 and 7 are implemented, we wouldn't even need #3,5, and 8.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcman
Trap rearming from successful defenses could be partially compensated from defensive league bonuses.
Collector rate increases no longer needed as this collective change would fix the problem of active bases having little to no loot available.
It would also allow for the completely unregulated system of elixir for walls to not damage the economy as things like league bonus multipliers for multiple stars and a winnable pot from allowing a portion of Nexting costs (gold and elixir) to go into each skipped base.
These are simply the best options for the active playerbase, the people who are feeling the flaws of the current system the most. It also allows SC to almost drive away completely from the current system which needs inactive bases to sustain 80%+ of the economy. But unless they feel this either will benefit, or won't harm their bottom line, they will not implement this.
I'm getting confused as to what you're saying here. People with THs inside do not hide behind shields, in the sense that they show up for much more time and plenty more opportunities to get attacked than someone with a TH outside. If you're saying that farmers "don't hide behind shields" because they play in concentrated sessions where they break the shields, you're right. But they absolutely leave their THs outside, as when they do get hit they want to get hit for as little resources as possible, and "hiding behind a TH snipe" is the best way to do this.Quote:
Originally Posted by wip3ed
I just mentioned those leagues for a specific reason. I have two accounts, and there is a reason my TH9 with ~2-3M of each resource doesn't get instantly sniped at 1500 trophies. The league bonus down there sucks, so low levels and players with cheap armies tend to skip the TH snipe (although not always). Then a player with a capable army finally comes along and goes to hit it for the storages. Sure I still get sniped, but I would say 1 in 5 attacks on my base is for the storages when I have over 2M of each down there. Compare that to my TH10 up at 2400 trophies holding about the same loot. I can't log off for more than 60 seconds before I get instantly TH sniped. The elixir shortage has caused players to have to resort to cheap armies, so it's rare with Crystal bonuses ranging from 35k-65k each for a player to be hunting there with anything but BArch/BAM. Almost every farmer in that range is using cheap armies b/c of the broken system, looking for inactives or TH snipes to live off the bonuses. 100 times out of 100 someone will snipe my base up there when they come across it, b/c regardless of how many times they've Nexted, that's a free 4-8 trophies and 35-65k loot (100k if they're in M3) each and uses either 3 troops or a hero to get. Only people trying to stay in the trophy range, or fasttrack up to higher leagues will hit my Gold 2/3 base for the cheap TH.
You're saying you have loot available to raid, but b/c your TH is outside (I assume) you have a ridiculously higher chance of simply being sniped for free, every time, depending on where you're farming. If some of these changes people mentioned got implemented, people wouldn't be terrified to farm at leagues as low as even C3 with heavier armies, and those TH snipes could instead lead to attempts at the storage as well.
When you base your conclusion on the wrong assumptions the answer gets wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goobers
Yes. Farmers expose more loot and are avaliable to attack more often. People with THs inside are rearly attractive to attack. Get yourself a stronger army so you dont have to skip them. Just becase a lot of players prefer to grind with cheap armies doesnt force you to do the same.
You assume that farmers would like to expose the same loot with the townhall inside. Why? How do you plan to save up for your upgrades if there is no such thing as a cheap shield? How much would logging on/off 10 times a day cost you?
But if you dont like to answer those questions just continue to believe that making TH act like a storrage is the way solve the loot problem. It will just ruin the game without a complete overhaul of the lootsystem so I am sure it wont get implemented.
If you allways get those free shields, start filling your storrages completly. 2m is nothing.
SC knows that if they do nothing to fix this game, you'll all just get used to it and stop complaining.
Seems like this thread is slowing down... And it's not because the loot system is fixed and working great.
Same thing happened in December of 2013. Everybody just got used to the game being more tedious, less loot, harder to advance... It's Deja Vu all over again...
well done, SC!! Mission accomplished! You have succeeded in making your game more difficult for non-gemmers!
Still broken. Loot still sucks. Just like it has for the past 11 months. Only worse now, with no elixir, since the walls update.
Such a shame
It's amazing the amount of people who complain about loot, yes loot can be hard to come by at times but I have never once has issues being able to get loot. I even rushed my TH big time and have never had any loot issues!
If I saw exposed TH bases with 200k+ in loot I would definitely be hitting them for more than just the bonus. The issue is that they are getting immediately sniped as the elixir for walls update has forced almost everyone's hand into farming with tier 1 troops, so people who cannot hit those stocked bases simply snipe the TH for loot and move on. Your attempt at sh*tting on my argument by trivializing my loot in storages is welcomed, but I would agree with you. 2M is nothing, it's just what I'm hovering around by only collecting from mines/pumps and occasionally doing an upgrade. I've stopped farming entirely due to this problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by wip3ed
It's a vicious cycle: elixir from storages goes almost obsolete, so farmers adapt and use cheap troops. Cheap troops can really only get inactives and TH snipes (and prey on TH8s for a nice penalty), but when they come across the rare scenario where they find a base with loot in storages and an exposed TH, they don't have the army for it. So they take the snipe. So am I going to go and build a monster army capable of cracking into storages now? I do that, and I'm stuck nexting 200+ times b/c I fooled myself into thinking that one rare occasion would present itself again, and now I've learned my lesson and go back to BArching/BAMing.
By no means am I saying that treating the TH as another storage is the be-all, end-all solution to this problem. The only way this gets fixed is through either an overhaul of the system, through ideas similar to what many people have been posting here, or to release that stranglehold on inactive bases, which I don't think SC wants to do (a step backward, in their mind). But with those changes, this would curb the behavior of 100% all the time putting a TH outside with no risk, to understanding that if their layout is designed well enough to protect most of their storages with a 40%+ win/loss, they can opt to do that instead. Would I keep my TH inside when I'm sitting on 4M/4M/50k resources, meaning 400k/400k/2k available? Probably not, I'd stick it outside and hope for a TH snipe at a loss of only 80k/80k/400. Why is having something other than a completely free, no risk "don't touch my resources" option totally out of the question? Because the game started out in a way that allowed that? That's bull, you have to make changes as the dynamic of the game changes, and this should be one of them.
Your very lucky then !!Quote:
Originally Posted by fightondon
Haven't you noticed that most guys attacking now a days are using cheap armies ??
Look around you will see most peeps are using barbs and archers.
TH10 and TH9 with max troops having to raid with a light army, cuz we can not cover the cost anymore!!!
50k G and 50K E dose not cut it, plus add in the cost of endless nexting !!
Before the September update I was Looning 100% the day after the update Elixir was gone I could no longer cover the cost of my Balloon army and spells...
Putting a bonus for succesfull defense would prevent in a way the cheap shield part
if you lose your th, you lose the def so you don't have a bonus + your traps remain to re-arm
if you lose a def, your traps should be re-arm automatically (deducting from def bonus) and you get loot
the bonus should depend on the league tho or depending on the attack th lvl?
Yes, loot still sucks. I'm not getting used to it, just getting tired of stating it on the forums. Especially if SC isn't going to respond. So for now - no gem buying will continue. I take their silence these past 4 weeks or so to mean one of the following:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotten
1. They're too busy devising a solution to spend time on the forums. Hopefully a fix coming in next update..
2. They have concluded they are done working on this after the league bonus buff and have nothing further to say.
For me - I'm sticking around until the next update. If #1 is correct, then maybe they'll have me back as a paying player. If #2 is correct, I'll soon be gone after the next update or at most play in wars only with my clanmates who I've been with since my start about 2 years ago. We have a former top 200 player in our clan who is doing just that now. No raiding, no playing. Just fills his CC for defense, collects from collectors, donates to clanmates and shows up for wars. And he was a huge gemmer before all this..
i totally agree with you. I guess SC is "still monitoring" and will not "rush in" to add more loot. I hardly say 11 months is rushing in. How long do they need to monitor for??Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotten
I guess ill just give up. Youre looking at something thats actually good as something bad and we will never agree. Good luck hoping for 10+ of those shields a day while you save up. I'll go raid some farmers bases with filled storrages in the meantime. Grinding with Barch isn't my style.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goobers
Actually, 9 times out of 10 when I get attacked its with a high powered army or something that isn'h cheaper, hardly ever BARCH. I think people personally just need to chill about the loot and deal with it, the game is not meant to be easy as everyone wants it to be, if it was then millions of people wouldn't be playing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by WTH
A lot of the lower level th's say the same but you won't hear that from a th10 who knows what he's talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by fightondon
If you are consistently able to find farming bases with hefty storages, god bless ya man. I'm not posting up hypotheticals here: they don't exist anymore, and the reason is that they are hiding under cheap shields b/c the new updates have forced people to use cost-effective armies which then encourage sniping over raiding the entire base when presented with it. When I find a base with quality loot in it you bet your ♥♥♥ I'm hitting it--even with my gbarch army--and taking every bit that I can rather than snipe. But what I'm saying is that the sheer volume of people forced to use cheap troops now causes those bases to get taken off the radar immediately via a sniped league bonus, so instead of me prepping for a tough base, they never show up. So don't give him this holier than thou "you go barch snipe while I hit 10 consecutive bases with capped storages" line of ♥♥♥♥ as if I'm incapable of farming those same bases. That's exactly what we're all trying to do now, but they just aren't available anymore b/c of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by wip3ed
EDIT: And "looking at something good as actually bad?" Are you kidding me? This game was never meant to be played where you keep your TH outside and avoid any chance of losing what you've stolen from inactives. With the way the system is currently set up, there is no, NOT ONE SINGLE REASON why you should ever have your TH anywhere but outside your base. It's a basic flaw in the game that should be addressed, especially now that SC is just smothering inactives out of the queue b/c now they want us to hit storages. Well then let us hit the damn storages! Start implementing features that discourages a blind, all-scenarios "stick your TH outside" approach to the game.
"What if I'm saving up, and I get hit and lose loot several times throughout the day?" Holy sh*t guy are you serious? So you should have a foolproof method of being able to farm as you wish but never be at risk to lose what you take, exploiting a feature of the game that's beyond broken? How dense are you? That is the exact mentality which is leading to everyone to not being able to find any loot to hit in the first place.
We're gonna need some screenshots before this gets validated in any fashion.Quote:
Originally Posted by fightondon
If I could go back a week I would show you screenshots, currently most of my defenses are snipes because my TH isnt protected, Although a friend of mine and I were discussing the fact that I get hit hard quite often compared to him, but at the same time I hover around Masters III and Crystal 1 all the time so getting hit harder is expected to me anyways. So just for me personally I get hit hard, but my fellow friend and clan mate doesn't get touched.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goobers
So most of your defenses are snipes on you, and then it was just pure hearsay that you were getting hit 90% of the time with heavy armies. And you may get hit harder a bit more frequently than a lower league Crystal would, b/c you have M2/1 raiders with decent league bonuses to cover their costs hitting you. But still mostly snipes. That's more of what I thought it would be.Quote:
Originally Posted by fightondon
You overlook all the factors that doesnt suit your sollution. Like how much farming will cost you and what people will do to avoid that cost. You think that the problem is TH sniping. I have adapted and dont have loot problems at the moment, but eliksir is of course much harder to get by since the drain lix in wall update. Like your TH inside idea a lot of people thought it was a great idea to because they focused only on their problems from a narrow point of view. The sollution to a problem is not to create another one which making the TH act like a 5th storrage really is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goobers
Of course if my TH is outside i will get sniped more often, but what I meant to say and probably should have clarified is that when my TH is INSIDE 90% of the time I get hit hard and not with BARCH. Does that clear things up a bit more? Once I have logs, I'll post more stuff but I can only go by my word and in forums people tend to watch this and that which is understandable. Either way I have no had any issues whatsoever with loot, whenever I want it I can get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goobers
glad to see those in favor of getting rid of the cheap shield for town hall snipes become more vocal. It's long over due for supercell to incentivize us to protect our town halls instead of the current system where we are incentivized to expose the town hall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goobers
WELL SAID!Quote:
Originally Posted by Goobers
You are only looking at this from the point of view of changing this 1 little thing... The entire system needs changing and this is just a cog in the wheel...Quote:
Originally Posted by wip3ed
Take your skull out of 'farming' and try winning for a change...
It needs to be more rewarding on defence as well as offence..
Forget losing your ♥♥♥ 10 times a day as you put it because if thats what youre afraid of then youre too high in cups and have a really badly designed base...
A new system will bring new ideas, new defences and likely some fun back to the mundane systematic approach were currently struggling with.
He is right, 95% armies from M3 to M1 are only GowiXX or loons, rest are shared by either hogs plus some combo or barch or some weird combo trials... (atleast those attacking me), in fact I also got attacked by full L4 drags twice last week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goobers
Also leaving out Th is not so safe sometimes, I see a big loot with th out, sometimes I go for it with my full army since the bonus is guaranteed from the snipe...
But here is the problem. For tons and tons of players in this game, building their base is the fun part. In other words - farming efficiently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keywal
If you want a challenge and want to "win" you have clan wars and trophy pushing. If you want to farm and build your base, right now you have no game. Because the farming sucks. There is no other way to put it.
They created a game where an active player uses WAY more resources than they can produce. So what that means is, unless their are enough inactives to fuel the active players or they increase collector output by a massive amount, the economy is in complete collapse. They know this, why do you think they don't completely remove inactives even though they say they want true active vs active?
What I don't understand is why instead of ticking off their long term players, they just don't focus on creating content to keep those players interested. Long term, that's really the only strategy that will save them.
Just let people farm and give them a reason to max their base instead of choking it off like they do now.
The solution is not "make the TH a 5th storage, done." I've never said that's the fix to this problem. I have said over and over again that what SC is doing--these simple, slap it across the board fixes--are never going to work. If they want to gear farming/hunting away from inactives, a pretty drastic overhaul is needed. What I (and others) have been saying is that along with treating the TH as a storage, they need to:Quote:
Originally Posted by wip3ed
- instill a league bonus multiplier based on stars. apply a penalty to the multiplier similarly to the current loot multiplier so that it isn't exploited by TH9/10s
- allow for gold/elixir to be used for Nexting, and apply a percentage of each Nexting cost into each base skipped, on a diminishing scale, of which up to all of it can be won by either the attacker or defender, and is entirely storage-based (destruction/preservation)
- a league bonus for successful defenses
SC puts these in place, and not "just make the TH a storage," and you now have a system that can at least be far more sustainable by active players than the one we currently have.
I've already posted a message in this thread. But still. Loot is really fine to me. I'm at th10, master III, 2600-2750 cups, have no problem with loot at all.
archers, hogs, Giants - sometimes spells (healing). Loot bonus + 100-200k most of the time. 6-8 mln of gold per day, 4-6 hours of gameplay.
clan name: chinovniki, nick - dudethatrocks.
Just learn how to win and get that gold.
My apologies to him then. I have not yet farmed up in any of the Master leagues, but at 2400 trophies I only have TH snipes in my logs, with the occasional (failed) BArch raid (without spells now, I guess elixir really is that tight these days). I wasn't aware that the change in a couple hundred trophies caused that drastic of a behavioral shift in attacking armies. I have however been hearing that M3/2 is still not good as far as bases with decent loot in storages, so I was kind of surprised when you say most armies consist of those troops. I guess at that point a shift from elixir troops to dark elixir becomes more beneficial, seeing as dark elixir has been unaffected by these recent SC updates.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikky
Its some sort of record today for me, in last 24 hours won straight 10 attacks in masters 1, had 3.2 million gold & 2 million elixir 24 hours back... I have stopped counting the searches now... but right now I have 1.8 million gold & 3.4 million elixir (out of ten one was a th snipe)...
last 15 days am stuck at 3100 trops with consistently maintaining elix at 2 million, since yesterday fought a war, lost it still I am down in gold & up in elix which is shocking & I got looted 7 times !!!
I would say M3/M2 is nothing but storage raids(very few inactives) I am back down in C1 right now and last night I was finding tons and tons of inactives. But loot is the luck of the draw, but I seem to have always been lucky hahaQuote:
Originally Posted by Goobers
A few weeks ago I went for Champ for the first time and got it. At first I was going to drop back down immediately to farm because getting to Champ hurt my resources bad. Instead I decided to try Barching for the first time and stay around 3200. Yes, that's correct, I a TH 10 had not once barched before because I have always enjoyed using stronger armies. Anyways, I was shocked to find how amazing barching in champ is with the increased loot bonus. Once I got the hang of it I knew which base layouts to look for and it became easy to maintain trophies as long as I session raided on occasion. Believe it or not, I was able to session raid without the use of gems as long as I attacked well. A good attack included me using my army, 0-1 or 2 lightning spells, and using my AQ but not allowing her to get hurt enough to have to wait for her before my next attack. Unfortunately after a few weeks I just dropped back down to 2600 because I need to upgrade my AQ and do not have the time to session raid to maintain Champ easily. Now that I'm back down in trophies and farming, I once again hate loot.
The main point to this story is that I really enjoy loot at Champ (when barching), but those few weeks I was there was the ONLY time I've found loot to be acceptable. It was also the only time I've ever not had to worry about nexting more than a dozen or so times. For once loot actually felt right. I'm not saying that increasing the loot bonus once again is going to solve the loot system's problems. On the contrary, I'm extremely disappointed that SC's solution to poor loot was the recent loot increase. As great as the increase is, SC should accept that their loot system is once again outdated and CHANGE it.
In my last post on this thread I believe I provided some loot system changes that I thought up at the time that seemed much better than the current one. The fact alone that better possible loot systems exist and SC still has yet to fix CoC's broken one amazes me.
Let me first address a couple of my main issues with the loot system. I feel like a broken record when I say that my biggest issue with the loot system is that people recieve a greater reward for attacking an inactive base instead of an active base. If this was flip-flopped then players would competitively attack with their better armies so take out harder bases to earn greater rewards. Again I'm NOT suggesting we depend on the loot bonuses! My other large concern with the system is that players are basically rewarded for having their TH outside!! *Even during my time in Champ I found it much more rewarding to have my TH outside to save trophies, my storages, and especially the drag of wasting resources to re-arm traps, etc when my TH was inside (That ♥♥♥♥ gets expensive!)
This time instead of suggesting detailed loot systems which I thin are better than the current, I'd like to lost some individual mechanic changes that could be used by SC to change the loot system for the better. I'm not saying these should all be added, but this list could easily make the loot system more enjoyable and even more fair for players:
-Make the TH hold more loot
-The increased loot in the TH can all 100% be stolen by the attacker
-Take away ALL trap re-arm costs and instead require the TH to be (rebuilt) after it is destroyed.
-Whenever traps are bought or upgraded by the player, the cost to rebuild the TH increases.
-Whenever traps are used in a defense, they will AUTOMATICALLY re-arm afterwards as long as the defender's TH is not destroyed.
-When a player's TH is destroyed, the cost to rebuild it is equivalent to the traps that were used in the defense. Those traps will not re-arm until the TH is rebuilt.
-If a player chooses to not rebuild his/her TH, those traps will remain unarmed. During future defenses, the TH will appear only partly destroyed and have less HP. Therefor a TH that has not been rebuilt is weaker until it is rebuilt.
-The purpose of this idea is to reward players who successfully defend their TH by not having to re-arm traps. This also promotes leaving THs INSIDE.
-Increase the amount of loot a player can take from a defender.
-EX: Player A with the current loot system offers 65k gold, 80k elixir and 500 DE. After all normal loot system calculations are done, the offer is doubled to the attacker. So now the attacker can take 130k gold, 160k elixir, and 1k DE.
- While the attacker can loot twice the amount in this new loot system, the defender can still only lose the original amount. So if the attacker steals 100k gold, 150k elixir and 500DE, the defender only sees a loss of 50k gold, 75k elixir and 250DE.
-Loot caps remain unchanged. If player A (TH 10) would originally offer 250k gold 400k elixir and 2.5k DE, the attacker can only steal 400k gold, 400k elixir, and 3k DE.
-This added loot multiplier only affects a defender's STORAGES, not their collectors. This would result in actives more commonly offering better loot while inactive bases would not be affected as much.
-This added multiplier would promote players to attack active bases more over nexting endlessly for inactive bases.
-An attacker "sniping" a TH will earn a star but will not earn the loot bonus until the player has destroyed XX% of the base. My suggestion here would be 40% to make it more difficult to earn without a full army.
-This would still allow barching and other troop comps to be successful but would require the attacker to actually attack to win loot.
-A small resource bonus for winning a defense. This has been suggested by many before but makes more sense if implemented with some of these other ideas.
-This would again push players to move their TH's inside and protect them.
-There's plenty more. Again I just thought some of these up as I went. Some I already suggested but just got lost in this crazy thread. I may just create my own thread since it is probably even more of a waste of my time to post it here...
Let me know what you think.
It's pretty easy to win almost every battle when you have a lvl 40 AQ. The vast, vast majority of people don't have that. And when you are upgrading your queen it's very hard to win with that army you use unless you use a ton of spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudethatrocks
My queen is only 25 and when I have her available (which is almost never because I'm always upgrading her) loot is way, way easier to get.
I use loons at the exact same trophy range as you and win over 90% of the time. But I can't come anywhere close to 6 million gold per day, even if I attack every 40 minutes. My average gold take is under 150k (it was well over 250k before the lix for walls debacle) and I search for at least 15 minutes every time.
Same TH level, same farming range, similar attacking times, comps and loot. Yet I completely disagree with you about loot being good. It's not. I never complained about loot prior to the elix-wall update but I certainly am now. It isn't so much that I'm not getting loot, it's that the ways we get loot are stupid and wrong. Some fixes could make it much more fun for everyone without the game just dishing out mass amounts of resources to us. The possible improvements exist. Read my last post and tell me you don't see potential for a better loot system even if it isn't with my ideas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudethatrocks
Those ideas are good on their own. You don't need to "force" people to put their TH's inside on top of it. It really isn't necesarry and wont increase overall loot, just more dumping and forcing people to play a certain way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goobers
I like to sleep at night knowing I have a 12 hour shield. I also prefer to log on/off during the day knowing that I wont loose more than I can gain in one or two raids. Take that away and you may end up destroying a big success.
No one is forcing people to put their TH anywhere... Unless you mean economically, then yes it makes no sense to ever have your TH inside.
The fact is my clan of mostly th10s all put their Townhalls outside, most do it even while pushing once near champs. Even in champs, they are sniped almost every time if they choose to stay and farm there.
Why do people think this isnt a broken mechanic?? Everyone wants to raid others, but have free shields for themselves... A system in which offense and defenses are properly rewarded needs to happen. Putting 20% of loot in the TH would not fix loot, but it along with a few tweaks listed in this thread would go a long way.
Pushing things to an extreme level often shows the truth about things... What if every single base put their TH outside, all the time? This would be FarmVille, and very quickly, we would all be in the clouds waiting for people to logout to get sniped instantly... That game would be the silliest game ever...
Offense and defense already properly rewarded. You get trophies for that isn't ?
Don't make me laugh. Trophies? Trophies? ! Hahaha. As useless as clapping villagers. I have my town hall outside. Winning a defense ( like today at work ) meant I got to be hit again immediately after. Yeah ... I'll sleep soundly knowing I got some trophies. Then later I can kill my battery in an endless search for nickels. This game has gotten so bad it's not even funny.
I have never said the economy isn't broken. Once a game is freemium something is broken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcman
It makes sense to SuperCell economically that players have their TownHalls inside. The players that pays a premium never put their townhall out. And now you suggest that SuperCell change the game so it is possible to farm while you have it inside. Why buy gems if you can afford everything while you play the game the way you are used to?
Or did I miss something here? Maybe you want other players that have not reached your level to slow down or stop their farming all togeter? Or do you just want their THs inside so you can ride their storrages that used to be well filled but wont be anymore since it would be impossible to save up resources?
Been away. Have I missed any announcements or even a post from SC?
Yeah, but that's how the game was initially intended to be played right ? Gaining trophies. I don't know what or when it went off-course but now it seems trophies become the least important thing. If something should be done about it, this game will need total overhaul, not patches here and there. It will be very different game. And that can not be done overnight. I don't want to side with anyone, but think if you're Supercell, and your game is played quite differently, how you're supposed to correct it ?
it's like you're a smith and one of your customer is back to you, want you to do something about this knife he bought from you. And it's broken. Because he used it as a screwdriver. What can you do ?
Lololol,,,,Good One !Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratbark007
You make it such a good knife no one would dream about using it as a screwdriver.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoardGuest808888
Can that really happen ? The only way to keep customer from abusing a product is to make its cost so exorbitant no one would want to screw himself doing that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danip
In terms of CoC, the gameplay, as far as trophy related is quite good. Not par excellent in higher trophy ranges, but fun in lower leagues nonetheless. However, the only way to keep players to misuse the loot system and leagues is to make it pay-to-play. I'm sure that's not what we really wanted.
I think SC said somewhere that if they change anything it will be over the next few updates.
With an update every few months you guys should already know you'll have to wait another 6 months-1 year for anything to be done.
This thread is the equivalent of your trash bin on your computer, or your junk mail box for your email. Maybe once it reaches 1000 pages they will empty the bin.
Instead of merging every loot thread under the sun into this thread, there should just be a loot subforum. The people reading and participating in those threads won't get lost, and those who don't care to see them won't have to do so. Win/win.
As I said earlier, the loot ISN'T Great, however it's still very good. Also, the servers can't work so that certain people always receive more loot than others, it's completely random. If I'm a th 10 getting by JUST fine, and they'res town hall 9's on here complaining about loot, that's sad, considering that we th 10s get 25% less loot than you guys do. You have to suck it up, and try farming hard for a change instead of using all of your time complaining on the forums!!! Not to mention, if you were offered like 300K each in the collectors every raid after like 3 searches, you would quit the game because it would be so repetitive and monotonous. Admit it, you like the challenge, being forced to raid core bases.
So got th10 2 days ago. In those 2 days got 4 lava walls and 1 zap wall, farmed for 2nd inferno and upgrading constantly traps, new AT and cannon. With all that I'm still sitting with about 4m of each.
My tip is - stop looking for those insane 600k loot raids and settle for 300-400k with loot bonus.
You forgot to say, that you play 18 hours a day;)Quote:
Originally Posted by israelclasher
About 6 hours a day.Quote:
Originally Posted by zork219
Quote:
Originally Posted by israelclasher
Someone give this chap a medal!Quote:
Originally Posted by israelclasher
About 25 million (not including traps or AT/Canon) in 12 hours play....
Well done sir... Pity were all not experiencing that which you neglected to consider in your little piece of 'advice' :)
No, I farmed around 20m in those 12 hours of farming. Had to farm only 500k for my 2nd inferno.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keywal
What league are u in? What army? Storages or collectors?Quote:
Originally Posted by israelclasher
Going up and down in Crystal. BAM. both.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzilla86
6 hours a day of BAM. Dull as hell, thats not gaming its grinding.Quote:
Originally Posted by israelclasher
And I dont believe that the loot is out there for a TH10 to get 300K plus league bonus each raid with that army without an awful amount of nexts used, which by the way is also dull as hell and a grind.
Basically you are just confirming what we all know. The economy is screwed and the only way to get decent loot is to grind it.
Am I grinding loot? I get so much loot I already started to farm walls lolQuote:
Originally Posted by CloudGigaTitan
Most of the regular players just use their loot on upgrading buildings and occasionally on upgrading walls. So lets say you upgrade the most expensive upgrades (2 infernos and 3 xbows), that means you need 40m gold to keep 5 builders busy. Lets say you get a free builder every 2-3 days (with those big upgrade times, that's what its gonna be), that means you will need to farm 40m in 10 days. That means you will need MAXIMUM 4m a day to keep a builder at th10. That's considering you upgrade only defenses of course and not using the builders to upgrade heroes or other buildings.
So yeah, I don't get what people complain about. That its not so easy like before to max your base? IT NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN EASY!
does not matter how many calculations you throw in to blind us all with your brilliance...Quote:
Originally Posted by israelclasher
6 hrs a day nexting with BAM is grinding.
and dull as hell.
LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by CloudGigaTitan
10 loot complainers
Yeh, call me a complainer too, AKA a person with a job, a family and a social life who won't waste 6 hours every day grinding away at a game. 40 plus hours per week? I think game is the key word here.Quote:
Originally Posted by israelclasher
Keep complaining about not being able to get a maxed base easy as you want. Its like expecting to play in a NBA team or a team in the championship league. Not everyone can do that, of course. But yeah, its also a game, no? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by rolemac
I got work, university, social life etc too. But I CHOOSE to spend 6 hours a day farming in clash of clans. You know why? because I love it, its challenging and I find it fun.
I am sure that if you really liked this game and got a job and family such that you can't afford to farm for 6 hours like I do, you can instead farm for 2-3 hours and buy some gems and boost your farming season. I think that someone with a job and family can afford 10$ a month to boost seasons if he wants to max as fast th10 as fast as someone who farm for 6 hours a day.
My point in my posts is that I still can farm at th10 as fast as I could at th9 and th8. Not to talk about how long I farm a day or something like that or to see people complain about the amount of time I'm playing.
Good for you, now understand this: Most adults don't think spending 6 hours a day playing a game is a good idea, either for them or their children.Quote:
Originally Posted by israelclasher
Like I said, you doesn't have to. But you can't expect to be able to max your base as fast as someone who does spend 6 hours a day playing that game.Quote:
Originally Posted by pmos69
That's what I see all the complainers are about.
Even if someone plays 2 hours a day he can still manage to max th10:
Lets say the worst case scenario he farms 1.2m of each in those 2 hours (average from what I see) + take into consideration the 450k of each you can get a day from collectors + 1-2m of each you can get from wars every week = 14m of each a casual farmer can farm a week. That means you can do 2-3 defenses upgrades a week (most of them takes 2 weeks to upgrade) + upgrade a hero and you can happily keep all your builders busy playing 2 hours a day as a th10.
If you want to upgrade walls too as I do, that's a different story. But again, farming walls are not meant for the casual farmers.
P.S. Like I said before, there isn't ANY game (and I am not talking about games like angry birds...) that will let you get to the last level easily as everyone seems to want it to be.
Here is the problem.... What you are doing is mind numbingly boring.Quote:
Originally Posted by israelclasher
I am a maxxed TH9, GG 1.3 billion 225 lava walls heroes 22 and 23.
I am( was) an addict, a "machine" of a farmer. I can still farm a ton of resources in low amounts....60 -100 k with barch or BAM but only boosted and raiding every ten minutes.....no chat .... No fun
But the thought of going to TH10 and doing this for week after week fills me with horror.
I never minded paying to have fun....I have happily paid Supercell over the last 16 months. But the last few months has increasingly felt like a job, and a pointless job since I cannot use the troops that I spent all that time AND MONEY upgrading!
THAT IS THEFT
PLUS I AM BORED, BARCH, BORED, BARCH, BORED, BARCH,BORED....
AND I WILL NOT PAY THEM TO BE BORED OUT OF MY MIND!
So I have parked my base and quit.
This won't please everybody, but why bother with the grind at TH9 and TH10. I love this game up to TH8 so I am on my third time through just now. Lots of raiding and upgrading, no need for gems once you are experienced, and you progress at a decent pace. I reckon I could do another couple of bases at least before getting bored.......
I also noticed the HUGE number of badge less bases that have CC troops and the odd thing upgrading.
This means a LOT of recently active players have quit raiding also.......
get your act together Supercell..... You are losing your client base !
Many of my friends have done this and enjoy their Alts a lot..... But they are still frustrated that their high level bases were a waste of time..... And Supercell made a lot of money from people TH9 and 10.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisteman
Think about it Supercell.......no gems needed to max out TH8.....no gems...no money....no jobs for you guys
i'm lvl 100 TH9... my defense need lvl 11 AT and cannons.. lvl 7 tesla and AD ... but there is'nt enough loot to upgrade them... so i decided to change my base structure...changed to trophy base with no loot in storage... pay both elexir and gold on walls is my strategy..LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Relentless
Lava walls are 3 million each....sorry but your 'strategy' won't be much use for them 😆Quote:
Originally Posted by 331410
woooow lava?Quote:
Originally Posted by Relentless
my walls:
60 lvl7
171 skull
19 lego
:cool:
♥♥♥♥, this is the funniest thing I've seen in a long time. Almost chocked on my coffee!Quote:
Originally Posted by israelclasher
So what your saying is, if you can't play for multiple hours a day. Don't bother playing.
Well, that explains why I don't play!
4 million a day? Not everyone can play for 6 hours a day. So I can play maybe, an hour a day, that 3 to 4 attacks a day. If I spend most of that time hitting next, then what's the point?Quote:
Originally Posted by israelclasher
And don't tell me I'm looking for easy bases or really big loot. I'm looking for options, things I can attack and move forward on with my 1 hour a day. I'm not asking to make 4 million a day. Hell, if I do 1 million I think I've had a really fun day! The problem is, all I seen is ♥♥♥♥, and more ♥♥♥♥.
You see this is the problem. You think that everyone should be like you. We are not, but we still want to enjoy the game. SC has to balance out people like you with people like me. We both spend money, we both enjoy the game but I can't enjoy the game anymore because they are trying to control people like you.Quote:
Originally Posted by israelclasher
And no the NBA is not a game, it's a business, and a job.