The NEW one and only loot is good or bad thread

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Originally Posted by iceageg

If by "the old loot system" you mean the old quantity of inactive bases you could collector raid then you are correct. If you mean the old system of calculating how much you could take from any base you are wrong. Nobody has it to take because there is no effective source of NEW resources in the game. Inactive bases are the CoC equivalent of tourist dollars. They create resources and never spend any out of the economy. When SC took those away the only source left was the collectors of active players which is kept in their storages. So we built different armies and started raiding their storages then spending the winnings. The problem is once it is spent, it is gone. Now we have less for everybody to steal than before. Fast forward a few months and here we are. Even if they change the calculation to give you 100% of the resources your target has you will only be able to attack them once. Then that loot is gone forever when you spend it. Now who do you raid? The solution is not to allow players to take a larger percentage of the small numbers available, it is to make MORE available. Anything that does not involve adding inactive bases (tourists) back into the game or some method of generating loot "out of thin air" is only going to make the problem worse. This is economics at it's most basic.

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Originally Posted by Perseverance

Ok, make more available, I understand, but how? Finding a lot of inactives is great, but it makes little sense if you think of it, really. I mean what, you can only progress in the game by relying on people who quit? I appreciate the occasional inactive, but if they're not going to come in consistently, then Supercell has a lot of loot to make up. I can honestly estimate that about 3/4 of my gold grab is from inactive bases. Take those away, and you've got an issue. They have to make up all that loot, somehow without completely crushing the economy.

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With the status quo on how loot is currently acquired, iceagag is 100% correct.

Anyone from Supercell saying that they don't remove inactive bases, or that they haven't as of recently been aggressively reducing the amount of time until these bases fall into the "removed" list, are flat out lying. We have been experiencing this change over months. Most of the people playing this game may be 10 year olds, but we're not all complete idiots. In fact, tailoring a game that encourages large "sample-sized" farming sessions actually perfectly allows us to notice this downward trend of inactives over time.

It's either that, or 3rd party software and bots are robbing the difference in available inactive bases at an insane rate. But SC claims that bots are having a negligible effect on the economy, therefore the blame gets shifted back to them based on the first point.

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Originally Posted by iceageg

This is the core of the problem. CoC is based on a TH7-8 sustainable resource production. This works fine for a while but as more and more people get into TH9-10 spending habits it becomes unsustainable. NO AMOUNT OF TAKING THE EXISTING LOOT FROM OTHER PLAYERS WILL SOLVE THE PROBLEM! Rewards "from thin air" from successful defense, tourist dollars from inactive bases, increased league bonus across the board, lvl12 collectors, significant net gain from winning wars, etc. are the only way to fix it.

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I liked these ideas, mainly b/c you included both passive and active forms of adding loot to the economy that doesn't just evenly distribute more loot evenly to everyone, rather than only saying "more higher-leveled collectors and freebie injections to everyone!, etc." I would absolutely welcome a change to this game, where they phase out inactive collector farming as they're doing now. But they're doing this without implementing a radical overhaul to how loot can be earned that replaces this very large source of income for all players. They can't implement their vision for having a more active overall playerbase when the only change they implement is removing the source of the old system. The outcome of that will be a totally crippled economy, and we're seeing it happen here.

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Originally Posted by Arrow1993

8 pekka's, 2 drags would be 484,000 elixir (most expensive combination). 5 freeze spells (most expensive spells) are 175,000 elixir. That would be 659,000 elixir. Times 2... Not quite 2 million, on top this is a combo that is NEVER used. Don't exaggerate the war cost. War is completely optional, hence that shouldn't be brought in the equation. (You also gain 40% or 100% back, so you'd be talking about 1 million per war.) . . .

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Unless he takes on the majority load of donations to war castles, in which case 2,000,000 is easily achievable. I did this for a long time, then my clan mates grew and now we split the load. MUCH more sustainable.

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Originally Posted by Arrow1993

. . The loot system is fine, the loot injection is horrible.

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^^^ THIS!!! ^^^

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Originally Posted by badfish1979

If inactive bases wouldn't add lots of resources to the economy because they get shielded twice per day, then why are they so heavily deprioritized?



Which is why regenerating goblin bases after finite periods of time would keep a steady flow of new resources being generated.



They have already said that defense bonuses are somehow exploitable and won't be added. I'm not sure how they are exploitable, but apparently SC thinks they are.

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Don't get it either... maybe someone can explain.

I could see where a strong base may drop really low in trophies... but getting a 2k (or whatever the low leagues pay) wouldn't be worth it...

You cant really blame OP.

99% of clashers do not frequent the forums. They are ignorant to the beauty of Barch and BAM.

They see Dragons and PEKKAs and want the highest level to annihilate their opponents.

They also dont know much farming setups and the benefits thereof.

What we as a community should do is help educate him and provide suggestions to improve his overall gameplay.

I took in one such clasher in my clan, premmie 10 with pink walls and TH6 defenses. He was my project :rolleyes:

Now we fight side by side, got all purples now and started his skull 'grind' and got his defenses up to TH8 standard. Still very premmie but he will get there.

I would have advised him that he would progress much better if he started a new account from scratch, but when I was TH9 I enjoyed his Level 6 wiz and Level 5 PEKKA way too much to actually come out and tell him. Kudos to him though.;)

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Originally Posted by Anoushka

This is actually the biggest concern as far as I see it. If you have nothing to lose, then why stop nexting? Right now you might not settle for something less than 100k gold for instance, but if the cost of nexting is removed, then why not not stop nexting until you find 200k, 300k+ etc etc, thus decreasing the amount of attacks considerably? You'll always have the prospect of something better, this is the reason why I don't see it happening in a near future.
And I'm not saying that the cost of nexting does not get high at higher levels, it does but not sure if removing it completely makes 100% sense either

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How about this instead of removing or a flat reduction of cost to Next?

http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...=1#post3082928

You don't change the cost to Next, but instead of hundreds of thousands of people dumping their Nexting costs into nothingness endless times over while they look for--at least at this point--just a base they can come out a little bit ahead of from their troop cost, you allow a portion of it on a diminishing scale to go into a pot that can only be won based on destruction of storages (the way Supercell is currently encouraging people to farm, with them removing collector bases). This loot cannot be dumped (in the way that active players are dumping their gold and elixir into walls, leaving raiders with nothing in the form of storage raiding options) because it accumulates into a "bonus amount" separate from the amount in people's storages until the base is attacked and the loot is realized by the victor, either by the defender or attacker. Would this not substantially reduce the amount of Nexting going on, resulting in increased attacks?

icegag makes the most sensible arguments for a fix with simply allowing the inactives to be farmed again, but I'm just trying to think of how to best fix this without using inactive collectors as the solution.

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Originally Posted by stretty

You cant really blame OP.

99% of clashers do not frequent the forums. They are ignorant to the beauty of Barch and BAM.

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Assuming the OP is legit, of course. I'm always highly skeptical of someone who comes onto the forum, starts a thread with his only post ever, echoes what everyone else has posted, but claims to be completely ignorant of their posts, and then is never heard from again. Smells like a forum sock puppet to me.

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Originally Posted by Smalls

Where are you getting 58,800 from? And how is it that when I donate troops it's not my own elixir? Your not making any sense.

If I donate 1 dragon, thats 42,000 elixir (even more if I donate a pekka). It probably isn't 2 million, but it's definitely over 1.5 million per war if your clan uses dragons.

And war is profitable for gold. Tell me how you are going to find 500k+ in a normal raid? Yes, you need to build a big army but don't you sleep or do anything else during the day that would keep you away from clash for the couple of hours it takes to build a big fat army?

What that means is before the lix for walls debacle, it was worth it to war for the gold you won, in exchange for the ellixir and DE loss (right now DE is by far the easiest resource to get at th10). But now that elixir is so scarce, it might not even be worth it to war.

In other words, clan wars is contributing to the crappy CoC economy.

And that's just pretty sad that people will decide to miss out on the best part of the game because elixir is so scarce.

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58,800 elixir is a pekka, 2 wiz and 2 archers. The most common and usual cw cc. I am talking about YOUR army, as far as I recall you can't donate to yourself... Do correct me if I'm wrong. If I add all the elixir of troops I donate, well that's infinite.

Yoj don't find 500k+ bases, you take 5 100k+ ones. Clan wars was contributing so well to the economy that they decided to increase it by about one third in the last update (that's sarcasm).

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Originally Posted by Rotten

oh, you don't donate at all to your clan mates CC's?

Crawl back into your hole. You clearly have no idea how the game is played. I can EASILY get close to 2 mill lix in a war. Or if I went the other way, using DE, I can easily surpass 20k DE used in one war.

But it the point is, with the current loot system, we cannot play the game, AND enjoy all its best features, because the game is setup to hold us back too much.

Loot system is broken. Needs repair.

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I was debating whether to answer to your post or not. I mean... "crawl back into your hole" takes away a lot from your (good or bad) argument, as it's pretty silly. He was talking about armies, not donations. I played this game for 2.5 years, don't tell me how to play this game. Dark elixir has no place in this argument as he was referring to elixir, if we put DE in even less elixir is used.

And by the way, I donate to all my clanmates. We have a very well set up clan where everyone donates to the person below you, so not one person has to carry the load. Don't point the finger at me for having an organised clan. If on person in your clan has to donate to everyone, go look for a new clan.

Tip for your next argument: stick to the point and don't start with "crawl back into your hole", makes you look silly.

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Originally Posted by badfish1979

If inactive bases wouldn't add lots of resources to the economy because they get shielded twice per day, then why are they so heavily deprioritized?

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They get shielded. After the shield wears off they start at the end of the row (or very late) so it is normal that it takes a while for them to pop up. I doubt it's Supercells goal to make this game for cheap barchers.

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Originally Posted by badfish1979

Which is why regenerating goblin bases after finite periods of time would keep a steady flow of new resources being generated.

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Seems like I respond to your comment, you ignore mine and just repeat. Goblin missions are used to get that last 100k to start an update. It is worse than 1 gem collector boosts for a few days. Goblin missions can be done at will, while collectors get boosted while you sleep as wel so people have a (small) chance of actually getting some.[/QUOTE]

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Originally Posted by badfish1979

They have already said that defense bonuses are somehow exploitable and won't be added. I'm not sure how they are exploitable, but apparently SC thinks they are.

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First off I would like to see that post, secondly it might be exploitable at higher levels which is why these bonusses should be flattened towards master league. You have to see the bigger picture, not just the shortsighted "we want more loot please" attitude.

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Originally Posted by iceageg

Unless he takes on the majority load of donations to war castles, in which case 2,000,000 is easily achievable. I did this for a long time, then my clan mates grew and now we split the load. MUCH more sustainable.

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That's just a badly organised clan.

King Midas
Insurgence Family

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Originally Posted by Rotten

oh, you don't donate at all to your clan mates CC's?

Crawl back into your hole. You clearly have no idea how the game is played. I can EASILY get close to 2 mill lix in a war. Or if I went the other way, using DE, I can easily surpass 20k DE used in one war.

But it the point is, with the current loot system, we cannot play the game, AND enjoy all its best features, because the game is setup to hold us back too much.

Loot system is broken. Needs repair.

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Forgot to ask, what armies do you use?

King Midas
Insurgence Family

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Originally Posted by Arrow1993

Seems like I respond to your comment, you ignore mine and just repeat. Goblin missions are used to get that last 100k to start an update. It is worse than 1 gem collector boosts for a few days. Goblin missions can be done at will, while collectors get boosted while you sleep as wel so people have a (small) chance of actually getting some.

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If missions regenerated, it would make much more sense to raid them regularly. Why let them sit there and waste that loot you could get if they regenerated, say, once a week for example?

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Originally Posted by Arrow1993

First off I would like to see that post, secondly it might be exploitable at higher levels which is why these bonusses should be flattened towards master league.

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Here you go:

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Originally Posted by SuperSteve[Supercell]

Good discussion of suggestions is going here:


http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...-suggestion-is


We're considering most options at this point. Only additional collectors have been ruled out. In addition, anything that could be "easily exploitable," such as a defense bonus or earning your nexting cost, is highly unlikely to be considered.


Besides that, we're considering a wide variety of changes that will improve balance in the game.

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Originally Posted by Arrow1993

You have to see the bigger picture, not just the shortsighted "we want more loot please" attitude.

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Please enlighten us on this "bigger picture."

The bigger picture in my opinion is the amount of resources being generated vs the amount of resources being consumed, which I addressed in my original post.

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Originally Posted by badfish1979

They have already said that defense bonuses are somehow exploitable and won't be added. I'm not sure how they are exploitable, but apparently SC thinks they are.

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Originally Posted by cww007

Don't get it either... maybe someone can explain.

I could see where a strong base may drop really low in trophies... but getting a 2k (or whatever the low leagues pay) wouldn't be worth it...

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Yeah after thinking about this, I don't understand how people would really exploit it either. I guess I was thinking about people who are single-dropping troops to go down in trophy levels, or just zapping DE and taking the loss--but I can't remember the last time someone single-dropped a troop on me up in Crystal 2, and I might get my oil drum zapped once every 30 raids on me, possibly less. Surely not enough where it would run rampant the accumulation of defensive league win bonuses. What I'm saying is I don't think Supercell should think we're all gonna be waking up everyday to 10+ "oddball" defensive wins netting us like 500k/500k/2k in resources, lol.