Economics of Clan Wars

I was just wondering about the economics of CWs and what the total effect is from an economics standpoint. I've roughed some of these numbers, but this that are close and in the ballpark.

Let's assume it's 10 v 10 clan war.

CW CC investment: estimated at 30K E and 350 DE (this obviously could be more or less depending on what specifically is requested). At 10 people, that would make the clan investment in CW CC's to be in the neighborhood of 300K E and 3500 DE. It's probably more in higher level clans, as one or ore witches are typical, so please forgive the estimates. This is a cost both sides incur to defend in CW.

CW Attk costs: Let's look at the cost of a Gowipe sort of raid, which is what I see 80% of the time at TH10 wars nowadays. That's about 400k E and 2000 DE for each attack. So for two attacks, that's 800k E and 4000 DE for each of the 10 players. Thats a total clan investment (10 members) of 8 mil E and 40k DE just to carry out 2 full attks.

Total Clan investment into clan wars: 8 mil E + 300K E = 8.3 mil E and 40k DE + 3500 DE= 43500 DE

FOR THE WINNING TEAM

PAYOFF: If you win, lets say your loot bonus is 900K each and 4500 DE for each player. That would be a total loot bonus for your 10 member clan of about 9 mil gold, 9 mil E and 45k DE. BUT, about 20%-30% of attacks often fail, meaning that the above amount would be reduced by those percentages. So a more likely clan haul would be 6.3 mil to 7.2 mil gold and elixer, and 31,500 to 36000 DE.

Comparing that to the investment, in victory, you clan comes out about 7 mil positive on Gold (great!), negative 1 million in E (Not great) and negative 10k in DE (not good). REMEMBER THIS IS WHEN YOU WIN.

Please feel free to play around with the numbers yourself. These are estimates based upon a largely TH 10 clan. Although that numbers may change some, I think the general results will still end up about the same.

Conclusion: It looks like CW is basically a means to gold grab at the cost of some elixer and DE.

FOR THE LOSING TEAM:

Now also consider that there are losers too. They have the same investment into the CW as described above, but as they lost, they only get 20% of their loot bonus. So if we award them 20% of what the winning clan got, their reward will 1.26 mil to 1.4 mil gold and elixer and 6300 to 7200 DE.

Comparing that to the investment, in DEFEAT, you clan comes out about 1.3 mil positive on Gold (OK), negative 7 million in E (OUCH) and negative 37k in DE (OUCH). This is alot of resources that go back to supercell and out of rotation.



It seems to me that CWs is Supercell's way of providing a fun cooperative feature to the game, but it also takes out a huge amount of resources from the game, regardless of who wins or loses. In a 10 v 10 war, it looks like Supercell pulls back in about 8 mil in E and 50K in DE, while giving out about 8.3 mil in gold. Maybe that's an ok exchange for gold, which is scarcer than E.

Just thought this was interesting, as I thought the upside for the players would be better than this.

Thoughts?

Oh, And I forgot there is another associated cost with clan wars....

the lost opportunity you had to use your army to farm for resources. 2 armies that could've netted you two 200k G/200k E/500de raids.

So that's an additional loss to you.

It's a waste of time. Peoples win records are nonsense because wars are mostly mismatched. My clan has been the smaller clan several times and so far we have been shut out twice in 14 matches. Many other match ups were unfairly favoring the opposing team. Now you couple in the fact that its a direct loss in resources especially for the higher levels.. Man I'm about done with war

I've always been in the mindset that it doesn't matter what it costs for my war armies, I will build what needs to be built to win the war.

I understand the concept of opportunity cost. However, my war armies are usually built overnight or when I'm not planning on playing anyways. So I don't lose out to any farming time, just the cost of elixir which is overflowing anyways.

Because it is a clan war there is by definition going to always be a winner and a looser (except in rare draws). So you need to do your loot distribution including both the winner AND losers to get the NET effect to the total economy of COC

This thread points out something that my clan mates do not understand.

They often clamor for more war. Partly because war is fun, but also because they say they love "the loot bonus."

Meanwhile, the bonus, as the OP points out, is mainly in gold. Often for heavy donators, like me, the loss in elixir or DE is quite extensive.

And, while 400-600k gold is a nice little haul for two battles, patient farming can yield that in 30 minutes (approximately), while a war actually takes two days (though, probably only three to six hours real time--depending how addicted you are... lol).

In three hours, a good farmer should be able to pull 1.5 million with bad luck, and much more than that with good luck.

All this, I guess, is to say I agree completely with the OP, though I'm not entirely sure it is "money grab" by Supercell... It might just be a poorly executed economic distribution system. Maybe they'll tweak it to be more fair.

The bigger question is this: How do leaders convince clanmates that Clan Wars are not really profitable and only really worth it from a "team building" and "fun" perspective?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shadowof16

Because it is a clan war there is by definition going to always be a winner and a looser (except in rare draws). So you need to do your loot distribution including both the winner AND losers to get the NET effect to the total economy of COC

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I did, Shadow.

It seems to me that CWs is Supercell's way of providing a fun cooperative feature to the game, but it also takes out a huge amount of resources from the game, regardless of who wins or loses. In a 10 v 10 war, it looks like Supercell pulls back in about 8 mil in E and 50K in DE, while giving out about 8.3 mil in gold. Maybe that's an ok exchange for gold, which is scarcer than E.

The approx. net effect of a 10 v 10 CW as stated in my OP is Supercell giving out about 8.3 mil gold, but taking in 8 mil E and 50K DE. The winners basically just trades E and DE for gold, while the losers take a bath in the analysis.

CW is not about resources. boiled down, it is about winning.

CW does have benefits though.

1. It teaches teamwork. In a good clan, they work as a team, organizing who hits which bases, assisting with correct donations, advizing on base design, and how to pick up the slack if a few players get less that 3 stars.
2. Working in that team, the clan gets closer. They get to know eachother, they communicate. And lets be honest, a lot of game addicts out there could use that socialization right?
3. The pleasure of winning, as a team gives the players pride. The disappointment of loss gives the team a reason to practice tactics and improve strategies.

To me, CW is not about my loot. Its about the process. Its about the team. And it is about working together to win.


Sure, you can totally skip CW. I know there are plenty of clans and players who do not war. But if your clan does not war... you and your team are not getting those benefits.

I agree OP. I'm a near max defense (not walls) TH10, and this is how i view it.


Proposition: double elixir and dark elixir rewards.

Reasoning: I realize that most of the players are not TH10, and are wondering why i propose this. Aside from your evidence above, i spent TH1-9 bathing in elixir. It was never an issue other than times where i had just upgraded my TH; all other times it was overflowing.

Once you reach TH10 and push past "farming land (2000-2500)" an economical balloon raid using 5 spells still costs you ~300k elixir. Now you normally don't use 5 spells unless the opponent has sweet loot, but more often than not a "sweet loot" base is going to have 400-600k elixir.

The issue here is that with an economical loonion army you're still normally not getting all of the storages - 2-3 is more normal, thus your elixir gain in M1-3 is very slow and often a loss.

Result:
This would be meaningless to sub TH10 farmers who are bathing in elixir.
Would help sub TH10 players who participate in war and have recently upgraded TH level.
Would greatly assist TH10 players using expensive armies in and out of war to maintain resources.


TLDR; If you're TH10 farming in M1-3: army cost v. reward is near even. Wars are an added pressure to maintain elixir.

M3-1 = great for gold and DE
lower leagues = better for elixir

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kristinepixie

CW is not about resources. boiled down, it is about winning.

CW does have benefits though.

1. It teaches teamwork. In a good clan, they work as a team, organizing who hits which bases, assisting with correct donations, advizing on base design, and how to pick up the slack if a few players get less that 3 stars.
2. Working in that team, the clan gets closer. They get to know eachother, they communicate. And lets be honest, a lot of game addicts out there could use that socialization right?
3. The pleasure of winning, as a team gives the players pride. The disappointment of loss gives the team a reason to practice tactics and improve strategies.

To me, CW is not about my loot. Its about the process. Its about the team. And it is about working together to win.


Sure, you can totally skip CW. I know there are plenty of clans and players who do not war. But if your clan does not war... you and your team are not getting those benefits.

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Totally agree with you on the benefits of CWs. I like to do them too. Loot is not and should not be the focus in CWs, but it is important to look at it to see what your participation is doing to the over health of your clan's resources. If it's sucking valuable resources from your clan, then it's hampering your clan's ability to upgrade and better itself.

If your clan lost the majority of it's wars, then you are probably doing a disservices to your clan by continuing to do them.