Loot is slowly getting drier for TH9/10 and why (MINDBLOWING)

Disclaimer : This is not a thread complaining about loot!!
It's about raiding getting progressively harder every day.

1. What you need :
   Every account needs 2,875,201,950 gold to be maxed.
   Most of the gold needed is required in TH9 and TH10. A maxed TH8 needs 2,552,065,350 gold to be a maxed TH10.
2. What you produce :
   Level 11 gold mine = 3k gold per day, 72k gold per hour, 6 maxed gold mines = 432k gold per day. That's 2,500 days for 1 billion gold!! To get 2,875,201,950 gold would mean 6,656 days. Discouraging number. For TH9 and 10 alone that's 5,908 days!! (2.55b / 432k)
3. What you can raid :
   Assuming all loot produced is raided every 12 hours, one TH9/10 has to raid 5,908 other TH9/10's worth-of-a-day loot. Raiding TH8 is only viable for TH9.
   If there is exactly 5,908 TH9 in the realm, only 1 of them progress to maxed TH10 on average per day.
   Inactives which is removed from the queue does not inject resources to the economy.
   There are a finite amount of resources available to be raided.
4. Why there is clogging in the economic system?
   Because it takes 5,908 days for a new TH9 maxed TH8 and 748 days for a new account to be a maxed TH8 hitting upgrade to TH9 button, it could be assumed that it's only a matter of time before players are "clogged into" TH9/10.
   Except from a very few maxed TH10, every other TH9/10 out there is a gold sink. You will compete farming with them.
   Clogging in TH8 and lower is less severe because people move on to higher TH whereas the number of TH10 will never reduce except by quitting. TH10 is affected the most and TH9 is slightly affected because they have to compete raiding with more people.
5. The economic system as it is :
   Similar to a pyramid.
   It is working as intended but as i've stated before the longer you wait in the game, the more it will get harder for you to progress. As the game progresses, the pyramid turns into a hourglass. Raiding will get infinitely harder to the point of reverse pyramid where every active players are TH10 and the non TH10 are inactives.
   If more TH8 is turning into TH9 than TH9/10 quitting the game, getting loot is harder as the game goes on.
6. Other things to consider :
   Gold lost on nexting, gold gain on clan wars, gold gain on league bonus, gold produced from gemming/boosting and 7th mine is not accounted.
   Apparently the same goes for Dark Elixir... Elixir is the only resource which comes in abundance.
   Skipping level 8 walls and above saves you... 2,062,500,000 gold which is 4,775 days of resources. But the same cannot be said for dark elixir - you will always want them.
   
   If a mod or even better SC staff reads this, instead of paying ads and TV commercials why not increase longevity of the game?
   New stuff brings back old players, raiding keeps players playing, and longer boosting on collectors gives incentives for players to spend gems. A lot of my TH8 friends are now TH9 and they quit because they see too much 30k~50k raids.

Over dramatizing a bit. Most heavy farmers are in the 3-4 mil a day in raiding at TH9. Certainly it takes a big hit at TH10. Only way to make it much better is to reduce the loot penalty to make TH8's a better target but it's not going to fix anything, only push it down farther. People start playing, people quite playing. I don't see what they could really do, it's just the nature of the game as it's set up. Whenever we get a TH11 it may improve things a bit.

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Originally Posted by boomhower

Over dramatizing a bit. Most heavy farmers are in the 3-4 mil a day in raiding at TH9. Certainly it takes a big hit at TH10. Only way to make it much better is to reduce the loot penalty to make TH8's a better target but it's not going to fix anything, only push it down farther. People start playing, people quite playing. I don't see what they could really do, it's just the nature of the game as it's set up. Whenever we get a TH11 it may improve things a bit.

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Actually i'm one of those heavy farmers realizing that i need to dedicate a lot of time into this game the way it is designed and having my second thoughts... Lol...

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Originally Posted by hauw

1. Every account needs 2,875,201,950 gold to be maxed. [I'll take your word for it.]
2. Level 11 gold mine = 3k gold per day, 72k gold per hour, 6 maxed gold mines = 432k gold per day. That's 2,500 days for 1 billion gold!! To get 2,875,201,950 gold would mean 6,656 days. Discouraging number. [But people raid others, many people can earn 10x what they make from collectors by barch/BAM farming for 3-4 hours each day.]
3. Most of the gold needed is required in TH9 and TH10. A maxed TH8 needs 2,552,065,350 gold to be a maxed TH10. That's 5,908 days!! [See above.]
4. Assuming all loot produced is raided every 12 hours [why do you make this assumption? I leave my th outside and 95% of the time only lose 1000 of each gold and elixir each time I get raided], one TH9/10 has to raid 5,908 other TH9/10's worth-of-a-day loot. Raiding TH8 is only viable for TH9. [This is false. It's viable for TH9s to also raid TH9/10s.]
5. If there is exactly 5,908 TH9 in the realm, only 1 of them progress to maxed TH10 on average per day. [There's more than 5,908 TH9s in the realm. And people spend gems on their bases, which you don't account for.]
6. Because it takes 5,908 days for a new TH9 maxed TH8 and 748 days for a new account to be a maxed TH8 hitting upgrade to TH9 button, it could be assumed that it's only a matter of time before players are clogged into TH9/10. [Since TH10 is the current highest TH, then yes I agree, people who reach TH10 will be "stuck" there.]
7. Except from a very few maxed TH10, every other TH9/10 out there is a farmer. [Farming is a strategic choice of attacking and protecting one's resources. [How maxed your based is has no bearing on whether you are a farmer or not.]
8. If more TH8 is turning into TH9 than TH9/10 quitting the game, getting loot is harder as the game goes on. [How do you figure that? More abandoned TH9/10 means better loot from their abandoned collectors. This means loot is actually EASIER to get.]
   Supercell please fix this!!!!!!!! Introduce new loot to the system!

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quite honestly, I don't quite follow your train of logic for the reasons mentioned above in red. The loot system is fine.

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Originally Posted by hauw

Actually i'm one of those heavy farmers realizing that i need to dedicate a lot of time into this game the way it is designed and having my second thoughts... Lol...

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If it takes a long time to progress in the game, it's not because the loot system is broken, it's because SC designed it this way and doesn't want it to be too easy to max out your base. They want to keep you playing as long as possible. If you max your base fully, you're more inclined to get bored and quit, and in turn, they will make less money if this happens. More money = good.

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Originally Posted by hawdog

quite honestly, I don't quite follow your train of logic for the reasons mentioned above in red. The loot system is fine.

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Replied yours with mine in blue :D

1. Level 11 gold mine = 3k gold per day, 72k gold per hour, 6 maxed gold mines = 432k gold per day. That's 2,500 days for 1 billion gold!! To get 2,875,201,950 gold would mean 6,656 days. Discouraging number. [But people raid others, many people can earn 10x what they make from collectors by barch/BAM farming for 3-4 hours each day.]
   Someone has to produce that amount of loot. It doesn't just came out of nowhere.
   It means that maxing TH10 = 6,656 days of 6 level 11 gold mine whether it's yours or others.
2. Assuming all loot produced is raided every 12 hours [why do you make this assumption? I leave my th outside and 95% of the time only lose 1000 of each gold and elixir each time I get raided], one TH9/10 has to raid 5,908 other TH9/10's worth-of-a-day loot. Raiding TH8 is only viable for TH9. [This is false. It's viable for TH9s to also raid TH9/10s.]
   You get the wrong idea. Assuming you raid 5,098 another TH9/10 with 6 full and maxed gold mines it would take you to max TH 10. I never said anything about losing your loot.
3. If there is exactly 5,908 TH9 in the realm, only 1 of them progress to maxed TH10 on average per day. [There's more than 5,908 TH9s in the realm. And people spend gems on their bases, which you don't account for.]
   There is and i am merely stating the number. You also didn't account gold lost on nexting. And i'm not going to debate which is more, gold lost on nexting or gold produced by gemming. I am merely stating the number.
4. If more TH8 is turning into TH9 than TH9/10 quitting the game, getting loot is harder as the game goes on. [How do you figure that? More abandoned TH9/10 means better loot from their abandoned collectors. This means loot is actually EASIER to get.]
   Again you get the wrong idea. What i am saying is if there is 100 TH8 is turning to TH9/10 and 10 TH9/10 quitting, getting loot will get harder.

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Originally Posted by hawdog

If it takes a long time to progress in the game, it's not because the loot system is broken, it's because SC designed it this way and doesn't want it to be too easy to max out your base. They want to keep you playing as long as possible. If you max your base fully, you're more inclined to get bored and quit, and in turn, they will make less money if this happens. More money = good.

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Yeah i know but it has been over a year since the witch update and inferno tower update... Game is progressing slowly... I guess i'm just bored.

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Originally Posted by hauw

1. Every account needs 2,875,201,950 gold to be maxed.
2. Level 11 gold mine = 3k gold per day, 72k gold per hour, 6 maxed gold mines = 432k gold per day. That's 2,500 days for 1 billion gold!! To get 2,875,201,950 gold would mean 6,656 days. Discouraging number.
3. Most of the gold needed is required in TH9 and TH10. A maxed TH8 needs 2,552,065,350 gold to be a maxed TH10. That's 5,908 days!!
4. Assuming all loot produced is raided every 12 hours, one TH9/10 has to raid 5,908 other TH9/10's worth-of-a-day loot. Raiding TH8 is only viable for TH9.
5. If there is exactly 5,908 TH9 in the realm, only 1 of them progress to maxed TH10 on average per day.
6. Because it takes 5,908 days for a new TH9 maxed TH8 and 748 days for a new account to be a maxed TH8 hitting upgrade to TH9 button, it could be assumed that it's only a matter of time before players are clogged into TH9/10.
7. Except from a very few maxed TH10, every other TH9/10 out there is a farmer.
8. If more TH8 is turning into TH9 than TH9/10 quitting the game, getting loot is harder as the game goes on.
9. It is working as intended but as i've stated before the longer you wait in the game, the more it will get harder for you to progress.

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Nice going gemmer...........

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Originally Posted by hawdog

quite honestly, I don't quite follow your train of logic for the reasons mentioned above in red. The loot system is fine.

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You seems dont understand what op trying to point. They are assumptions, mathematically showing/assuming how loot circulating from th9/10 point of view. There are "ifs" there.

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Originally Posted by hauw

Replied yours with mine in blue :D

1. Level 11 gold mine = 3k gold per day, 72k gold per hour, 6 maxed gold mines = 432k gold per day. That's 2,500 days for 1 billion gold!! To get 2,875,201,950 gold would mean 6,656 days. Discouraging number. [But people raid others, many people can earn 10x what they make from collectors by barch/BAM farming for 3-4 hours each day.]
   Someone has to produce that amount of loot. It doesn't just came out of nowhere.
   It means that maxing TH10 = 6,656 days of 6 level 11 gold mine whether it's yours or others. Let me try again. YES, agree it would take 6,656 days to max out a TH10 base if you were ONLY using gold from collectors and you never got any of that gold stolen from you. But when you take into account that you raid other players and earn more than the 432k gold per day, you are able to progress FASTER by earning enough gold to do your next upgrade QUICKER than just collecting 432k gold each day. It doesn't matter who produces the gold, you steal it and it becomes yours. Their loss, your gain. I also win about 700k gold every two days from clan wars (if my clan wins, which is more often than not)
2. Assuming all loot produced is raided every 12 hours [why do you make this assumption? I leave my th outside and 95% of the time only lose 1000 of each gold and elixir each time I get raided], one TH9/10 has to raid 5,908 other TH9/10's worth-of-a-day loot. Raiding TH8 is only viable for TH9. [This is false. It's viable for TH9s to also raid TH9/10s.]You get the wrong idea. Assuming you raid 5,098 another TH9/10 with 6 full and maxed gold mines it would take you to max TH 10. I never said anything about losing your loot. You still didn't explain why you assumed all loot produced is raided every 12 hours. It is not really clear why you keep saying you raid 5908 bases :confused:
3. If there is exactly 5,908 TH9 in the realm, only 1 of them progress to maxed TH10 on average per day. [There's more than 5,908 TH9s in the realm. And people spend gems on their bases, which you don't account for.]
   There is and i am merely stating the number. You also didn't account gold lost on nexting. And i'm not going to debate which is more, gold lost on nexting or gold produced by gemming. I am merely stating the number. All your calculations are based off of 432k gold per day. This is false for anyone who raids other bases for a profit in gold each day. If I can raid 4 million gold in a day, I am earning 4 mil + 432k gold (minus say 500k gold in next costs, but + 300k gold in league bonus), I'm still earning gold fast enough to keep all 5 builders busy, allowing me to max my base MUCH faster than if I only earn 432k gold a day.
4. If more TH8 is turning into TH9 than TH9/10 quitting the game, getting loot is harder as the game goes on. [How do you figure that? More abandoned TH9/10 means better loot from their abandoned collectors. This means loot is actually EASIER to get.]
   Again you get the wrong idea. What i am saying is if there is 100 TH8 is turning to TH9/10 and 10 TH9/10 quitting, getting loot will get harder. But you neglect to consider that there are also new TH6s becoming TH7s each day, and TH7s becoming TH8s, it's an endless cycle with people getting stuck at TH10 eventually since that's the highest TH level right now. But who you encounter on raids is purely based on trophies, not on TH level, so you can encounter whichever types of bases depending on the trophy range you stay within.

Yeah i know but it has been over a year since the witch update and inferno tower update... Game is progressing slowly... I guess i'm just bored.

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green this time.

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Originally Posted by remired

You seems dont understand what op trying to point. They are assumptions, mathematically showing/assuming how loot circulating from th9/10 point of view. There are "ifs" there.

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I think I get it. I just see it differently. As you max out TH10 troops, you are very strong and are able to steal anywhere from 200k-300k of each gold and elixir from a rich TH9 or TH10 base in Crystal 1 or Crystal 2 league. This should take no more than 50-60 'next' clicks on average to find a base with this much stuff that you can raid. If you do this 10 times a day, that's 2-3 mil gold you earn per day (yes you lose gold in next costs, but you gain gold back from league bonuses and clan wars bonuses).

If you come across abandoned TH9/10 bases, it's even easier to ust raid their outer collectors as a TH10.

Yes, it's harder to get loot at TH10 compared to TH8 and TH9, but it won't take anywhere close to 6000 days to max TH10 if you farm gold actively.

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Originally Posted by hawdog

green this time.

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I think posts are slowly getting longer... LOL.

1. Level 11 gold mine = 3k gold per day, 72k gold per hour, 6 maxed gold mines = 432k gold per day. That's 2,500 days for 1 billion gold!! To get 2,875,201,950 gold would mean 6,656 days. Discouraging number. [But people raid others, many people can earn 10x what they make from collectors by barch/BAM farming for 3-4 hours each day.]
   Someone has to produce that amount of loot. It doesn't just came out of nowhere.
   It means that maxing TH10 = 6,656 days of 6 level 11 gold mine whether it's yours or others.
   Let me try again. YES, agree it would take 6,656 days to max out a TH10 base if you were ONLY using gold from collectors and you never got any of that gold stolen from you. But when you take into account that you raid other players and earn more than the 432k gold per day, you are able to progress FASTER by earning enough gold to do your next upgrade QUICKER than just collecting 432k gold each day. It doesn't matter who produces the gold, you steal it and it becomes yours. Their loss, your gain. I also win about 700k gold every two days from clan wars (if my clan wins, which is more often than not)
   Yes now you understand what i'm trying to point. It's about how much you need to get maxed.
2. Assuming all loot produced is raided every 12 hours [why do you make this assumption? I leave my th outside and 95% of the time only lose 1000 of each gold and elixir each time I get raided], one TH9/10 has to raid 5,908 other TH9/10's worth-of-a-day loot. Raiding TH8 is only viable for TH9. [This is false. It's viable for TH9s to also raid TH9/10s.]You get the wrong idea. Assuming you raid 5,098 another TH9/10 with 6 full and maxed gold mines it would take you to max TH 10. I never said anything about losing your loot.
   You still didn't explain why you assumed all loot produced is raided every 12 hours. It is not really clear why you keep saying you raid 5908 bases :confused:
   12 hours are the duration of a shield. 5,908 is 2.552b divided by 432k gold per day.
   Assuming that you and another inactive player plays the game and his/her 432k loot per day is raided completely every day, it would take 5,908 days for you if you produce 0 gold. If there are 10 players than it's 591 days, and so on.
3. If there is exactly 5,908 TH9 in the realm, only 1 of them progress to maxed TH10 on average per day. [There's more than 5,908 TH9s in the realm. And people spend gems on their bases, which you don't account for.]
   There is and i am merely stating the number. You also didn't account gold lost on nexting. And i'm not going to debate which is more, gold lost on nexting or gold produced by gemming. I am merely stating the number. All your calculations are based off of 432k gold per day. This is false for anyone who raids other bases for a profit in gold each day. If I can raid 4 million gold in a day, I am earning 4 mil + 432k gold (minus say 500k gold in next costs, but + 300k gold in league bonus), I'm still earning gold fast enough to keep all 5 builders busy, allowing me to max my base MUCH faster than if I only earn 432k gold a day.
   What if the number of TH9/10 raiders grows every day? Would you still able to loot the same amount every day? It's not about the raiding it's the clogging. Raiding 4 million today may not as easy as 4 million 1 year ago. Why it was easier 1 year ago again? Because less people is farming as a TH9/10 and more as TH8.
4. If more TH8 is turning into TH9 than TH9/10 quitting the game, getting loot is harder as the game goes on. [How do you figure that? More abandoned TH9/10 means better loot from their abandoned collectors. This means loot is actually EASIER to get.]
   Again you get the wrong idea. What i am saying is if there is 100 TH8 is turning to TH9/10 and 10 TH9/10 quitting, getting loot will get harder.
   But you neglect to consider that there are also new TH6s becoming TH7s each day, and TH7s becoming TH8s, it's an endless cycle with people getting stuck at TH10 eventually since that's the highest TH level right now. But who you encounter on raids is purely based on trophies, not on TH level, so you can encounter whichever types of bases depending on the trophy range you stay within.
   Which slowly clogs up to TH9/10... Remember this thread isn't about raiding, the core of the logic is the more TH9 is in the game, the more harder it is for other TH9s to progress the point of absolute scarcity.
   Why? Because we're competing and preying on the same target. It's G1/2 and C3 for everyone. Actually the same goes for every levels of TH, but then again it takes a lot and by a lot, i mean a whole new level of difficulty for TH 9 and TH 10 which is around 8 times of TH 8 and lower combined.
   
   Still confused? Compare this 3 scenario of the average ratio between active and inactives TH ranging from 8 to 10:
   1. 1 active TH10, 10 active TH9, 100 TH8, 300 inactives (10TH9, 50 TH8, 240 TH7)
   2. 10 active TH10, 30 active TH9, 80 active TH 8, 300 inactives (10TH9, 90 TH8, 200 TH7)
   3. 30 active TH10, 50 active TH9, 60 active TH8, 300 inactives (30TH9, 200 TH8, 70 TH7)

There are a few things that are not being accounted for:

1. as you said in one of your follow ups, the amount of gold being wasted nexting is not accounted for in your calculations
2. The amount of gold gained as loot bonus from wars is not being accounted for in your calculations
3. the amount of gold gained as win reward from your league is not being accounted for in your calculations
4. most of the gold required is for walls. Most people are pretty happy progressing without maxing walls.
5. lastly and perhaps most significantly, people who quit the game are pushed to the bottom of the attack que. Supercell has stated that they want people raiding other active players which means that all those inactive accounts which are churning out resources by the billions are going to waste because they almost never appear in the attack que. so when you talk about people quitting the game you have to remove them from the equation for the most part.

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Originally Posted by hawdog

Let me try again. YES, agree it would take 6,656 days to max out a TH10 base if you were ONLY using gold from collectors and you never got any of that gold stolen from you. But when you take into account that you raid other players and earn more than the 432k gold per day, you are able to progress FASTER by earning enough gold to do your next upgrade QUICKER than just collecting 432k gold each day. It doesn't matter who produces the gold, you steal it and it becomes yours. Their loss, your gain. I also win about 700k gold every two days from clan wars (if my clan wins, which is more often than not)

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That's not the point he's trying to make. Yes, it's possible (though highly unlikely) to farm all you need to max th10 in one day. What he's saying is that ALL gold comes from mines. Whether you farm it from someone else and they farmed it from someone else, at the start it came from a mine. He's not saying that it takes 6656 days to max a th10 by only using collectors. He's saying that it takes 6656 days to have all the gold needed to max out th10 produced from maxed out mines.

It's a sad economic design. It's an equation hawdog, not to hard to understand.

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Originally Posted by Jietoh

lastly and perhaps most significantly, people who quit the game are pushed to the bottom of the attack que. Supercell has stated that they want people raiding other active players which means that all those inactive accounts which are churning out resources by the billions are going to waste because they almost never appear in the attack que. so when you talk about people quitting the game you have to remove them from the equation for the most part.

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Then i suppose at the end only a handful number of players can get to max them all... The rest could farm each others to death for nothing... Not to mention that level 10 walls take 3 million gold or almost 400k loot raidable, it's impossible to get them if everyone is a TH10 and no one is inactive.

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Originally Posted by hauw

I think posts are slowly getting longer... LOL.

1. Level 11 gold mine = 3k gold per day, 72k gold per hour, 6 maxed gold mines = 432k gold per day. That's 2,500 days for 1 billion gold!! To get 2,875,201,950 gold would mean 6,656 days. Discouraging number. [But people raid others, many people can earn 10x what they make from collectors by barch/BAM farming for 3-4 hours each day.]
   Someone has to produce that amount of loot. It doesn't just came out of nowhere.
   It means that maxing TH10 = 6,656 days of 6 level 11 gold mine whether it's yours or others.
   Let me try again. YES, agree it would take 6,656 days to max out a TH10 base if you were ONLY using gold from collectors and you never got any of that gold stolen from you. But when you take into account that you raid other players and earn more than the 432k gold per day, you are able to progress FASTER by earning enough gold to do your next upgrade QUICKER than just collecting 432k gold each day. It doesn't matter who produces the gold, you steal it and it becomes yours. Their loss, your gain. I also win about 700k gold every two days from clan wars (if my clan wins, which is more often than not)
   Yes now you understand what i'm trying to point. It's about how much you need to get maxed. I always understood what you meant all along haha. I'm simply saying that almost no one will max TH10 just by collecting their collectors, they will max th10 by raiding, and if they raid 10 times what they make from just collectors, they will max their TH10 base in only 600 days from TH8-->TH10, instead of about 6000 days.
2. Assuming all loot produced is raided every 12 hours [why do you make this assumption? I leave my th outside and 95% of the time only lose 1000 of each gold and elixir each time I get raided], one TH9/10 has to raid 5,908 other TH9/10's worth-of-a-day loot. Raiding TH8 is only viable for TH9. [This is false. It's viable for TH9s to also raid TH9/10s.]You get the wrong idea. Assuming you raid 5,098 another TH9/10 with 6 full and maxed gold mines it would take you to max TH 10. I never said anything about losing your loot.
   You still didn't explain why you assumed all loot produced is raided every 12 hours. It is not really clear why you keep saying you raid 5908 bases :confused:
   12 hours are the duration of a shield. 5,908 is 2.552b divided by 432k gold per day.
   Assuming that you and another inactive player plays the game and his/her 432k loot per day is raided completely every day, it would take 5,908 days for you if you produce 0 gold. If there are 10 players than it's 591 days, and so on. I almost never let my shield run all 12 hours, I break it to raid usually. And on average per day, I would say I lose about 15k gold/elixir per day. I normally lose 1k gold/elixir at a time each time I get raided. I break my shield 10-20 times a day.
3. If there is exactly 5,908 TH9 in the realm, only 1 of them progress to maxed TH10 on average per day. [There's more than 5,908 TH9s in the realm. And people spend gems on their bases, which you don't account for.]
   There is and i am merely stating the number. You also didn't account gold lost on nexting. And i'm not going to debate which is more, gold lost on nexting or gold produced by gemming. I am merely stating the number. All your calculations are based off of 432k gold per day. This is false for anyone who raids other bases for a profit in gold each day. If I can raid 4 million gold in a day, I am earning 4 mil + 432k gold (minus say 500k gold in next costs, but + 300k gold in league bonus), I'm still earning gold fast enough to keep all 5 builders busy, allowing me to max my base MUCH faster than if I only earn 432k gold a day.
   What if the number of TH9/10 raiders grows every day? Would you still able to loot the same amount every day? It's not about the raiding it's the clogging. Raiding 4 million today may not as easy as 4 million 1 year ago. Why it was easier 1 year ago again? Because less people is farming as a TH9/10 and more as TH8. I'm not sure why you are thinking that the number of TH9s and TH10s in the game would have an effect on how much you can raid. Basically the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. If you are rich yourself and you only raid other rich TH9s anf TH10s as a TH10 player, you will make 200k-300k gold per raid, multiplied by 10 raids a day for example. Like I said before, if you make 10 raids a day and earn say 2.5 mil gold, and it takes 2.5 bil gold to max TH10 from TH8, then 1000 days later you're a maxed TH10, not 6000 days as if you only collected from your own collectors.
4. If more TH8 is turning into TH9 than TH9/10 quitting the game, getting loot is harder as the game goes on. [How do you figure that? More abandoned TH9/10 means better loot from their abandoned collectors. This means loot is actually EASIER to get.]
   Again you get the wrong idea. What i am saying is if there is 100 TH8 is turning to TH9/10 and 10 TH9/10 quitting, getting loot will get harder.
   But you neglect to consider that there are also new TH6s becoming TH7s each day, and TH7s becoming TH8s, it's an endless cycle with people getting stuck at TH10 eventually since that's the highest TH level right now. But who you encounter on raids is purely based on trophies, not on TH level, so you can encounter whichever types of bases depending on the trophy range you stay within.
   Which slowly clogs up to TH9/10... Remember this thread isn't about raiding, the core of the logic is the more TH9 is in the game, the more harder it is for other TH9s to progress the point of absolute scarcity.
   Why? Because we're competing and preying on the same target. It's G1/2 and C3 for everyone. Actually the same goes for every levels of TH, but then again it takes a lot and by a lot, i mean a whole new level of difficulty for TH 9 and TH 10 which is around 8 times of TH 8 and lower combined.
   
   Still confused? Compare this 3 scenario of the average ratio between active and inactives TH ranging from 8 to 10:
   1. 1 active TH10, 10 active TH9, 100 TH8, 300 inactives (10TH9, 50 TH8, 240 TH7)
   2. 10 active TH10, 30 active TH9, 80 active TH 8, 300 inactives (10TH9, 90 TH8, 200 TH7)
   3. 30 active TH10, 50 active TH9, 60 active TH8, 300 inactives (30TH9, 200 TH8, 70 TH7)I don't agree with the core logic that more TH9s in the game means it harder for other TH9s to progress. At TH9, I preyed upon raiding rich TH8s, I made a lot of money off of them, as well as off of abandoned TH9/10s. They could be inactive for just 24-48 hours and you can make a ton off their collectors

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in ORANGE.

Yea this is getting too long, starting to look like a rainbow lol. I think we just see things differently, that's fine I'll leave it at that :) I know what you mean in terms of how 432k gold gets created in the game every 24 hours on one player's base with 6 maxed lvl11 mines. But you can carry a lot more than that. And if you can steal more than you lose, you will essentially max out from TH8-TH10 much quicker than 6000 days, which is how long it would take only earning 432k gold per day. You do this by raiding a lot, and though it gets progressively harder to earn more gold at TH10, some would argue you make more gold FASTER at TH9 than at TH8.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blazenar

That's not the point he's trying to make. Yes, it's possible (though highly unlikely) to farm all you need to max th10 in one day. What he's saying is that ALL gold comes from mines. Whether you farm it from someone else and they farmed it from someone else, at the start it came from a mine. He's not saying that it takes 6656 days to max a th10 by only using collectors. He's saying that it takes 6656 days to have all the gold needed to max out th10 produced from maxed out mines.

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AGREE. all gold comes from mines. Well, it also comes from clan wars bonuses as well as league bonuses, to be truthful.

And yes, it does take 6656 days worth of gold mining to create 2.5 bil gold required to max out anyone's TH8-->TH10 base, I am agreeing there.

But this game has been around for 2+ years and due to the large amount of gold that people are not collecting from their collectors because they are too busy or they quit the game, they are earning LESS than the baseline $432k gold per day because others are raiding it from them.

This is why I was saying the rich become richer and the poor become poorer.

It's very possible to earn 2.5 mil gold per day (gold that already exists in the economy from people's collectors, from people's clan wars bonuses, from league bonuses, and from gemmers buying gold), which will shorten the amount of days to max a base from TH8-TH10 from 6000 days (earning only $432k per day losing nothing) to 1000 days (earning $2.5 mil per day losing nothing) or just 600 days (earning $4.32 mil gold per day).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by n3r0s

It's a sad economic design. It's an equation hawdog, not to hard to understand.

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Yes I understand the equation, it costs 2.5 bil gold to max a base from TH8-->TH10, 6 maxed collectors makes $432k gold each 24 hours, so it takes a bit less than 6000 days for 6 mines to produce that 2.5 bil gold.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hawdog

in ORANGE.

Yea this is getting too long, starting to look like a rainbow lol. I think we just see things differently, that's fine I'll leave it at that :) I know what you mean in terms of how 432k gold gets created in the game every 24 hours on one player's base with 6 maxed lvl11 mines. But you can carry a lot more than that. And if you can steal more than you lose, you will essentially max out from TH8-TH10 much quicker than 6000 days, which is how long it would take only earning 432k gold per day. You do this by raiding a lot, and though it gets progressively harder to earn more gold at TH10, some would argue you make more gold FASTER at TH9 than at TH8.

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I guess i'm dropping previous #1 because the post is getting too long @.@

1. Assuming all loot produced is raided every 12 hours [why do you make this assumption? I leave my th outside and 95% of the time only lose 1000 of each gold and elixir each time I get raided], one TH9/10 has to raid 5,908 other TH9/10's worth-of-a-day loot. Raiding TH8 is only viable for TH9. [This is false. It's viable for TH9s to also raid TH9/10s.]You get the wrong idea. Assuming you raid 5,098 another TH9/10 with 6 full and maxed gold mines it would take you to max TH 10. I never said anything about losing your loot.
   You still didn't explain why you assumed all loot produced is raided every 12 hours. It is not really clear why you keep saying you raid 5908 bases :confused:
   12 hours are the duration of a shield. 5,908 is 2.552b divided by 432k gold per day.
   Assuming that you and another inactive player plays the game and his/her 432k loot per day is raided completely every day, it would take 5,908 days for you if you produce 0 gold. If there are 10 players than it's 591 days, and so on.
   I almost never let my shield run all 12 hours, I break it to raid usually. And on average per day, I would say I lose about 15k gold/elixir per day. I normally lose 1k gold/elixir at a time each time I get raided. I break my shield 10-20 times a day.
   No it's not your shield but your victim's. Then again the shield doesn't really matter, what matters is the produce on per day basis.
2. If there is exactly 5,908 TH9 in the realm, only 1 of them progress to maxed TH10 on average per day. [There's more than 5,908 TH9s in the realm. And people spend gems on their bases, which you don't account for.]
   There is and i am merely stating the number. You also didn't account gold lost on nexting. And i'm not going to debate which is more, gold lost on nexting or gold produced by gemming. I am merely stating the number. All your calculations are based off of 432k gold per day. This is false for anyone who raids other bases for a profit in gold each day. If I can raid 4 million gold in a day, I am earning 4 mil + 432k gold (minus say 500k gold in next costs, but + 300k gold in league bonus), I'm still earning gold fast enough to keep all 5 builders busy, allowing me to max my base MUCH faster than if I only earn 432k gold a day.
   What if the number of TH9/10 raiders grows every day? Would you still able to loot the same amount every day? It's not about the raiding it's the clogging. Raiding 4 million today may not as easy as 4 million 1 year ago. Why it was easier 1 year ago again? Because less people is farming as a TH9/10 and more as TH8.
   I'm not sure why you are thinking that the number of TH9s and TH10s in the game would have an effect on how much you can raid. Basically the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. If you are rich yourself and you only raid other rich TH9s anf TH10s as a TH10 player, you will make 200k-300k gold per raid, multiplied by 10 raids a day for example. Like I said before, if you make 10 raids a day and earn say 2.5 mil gold, and it takes 2.5 bil gold to max TH10 from TH8, then 1000 days later you're a maxed TH10, not 6000 days as if you only collected from your own collectors.
   It's also a matter of advantage. It's impossible to progress if everyone is TH10, the next upgrade is 3 million, and no gemming is allowed. Since "clogging" exists in TH9/10 whereas maxing costs you 2.5 billion and the real difference is walls, advantage slowly dissapears. Over time, people would get to TH9/10, some will skip walls, and farming will get harder.
3. If more TH8 is turning into TH9 than TH9/10 quitting the game, getting loot is harder as the game goes on. [How do you figure that? More abandoned TH9/10 means better loot from their abandoned collectors. This means loot is actually EASIER to get.]
   Again you get the wrong idea. What i am saying is if there is 100 TH8 is turning to TH9/10 and 10 TH9/10 quitting, getting loot will get harder.
   But you neglect to consider that there are also new TH6s becoming TH7s each day, and TH7s becoming TH8s, it's an endless cycle with people getting stuck at TH10 eventually since that's the highest TH level right now. But who you encounter on raids is purely based on trophies, not on TH level, so you can encounter whichever types of bases depending on the trophy range you stay within.
   Which slowly clogs up to TH9/10... Remember this thread isn't about raiding, the core of the logic is the more TH9 is in the game, the more harder it is for other TH9s to progress the point of absolute scarcity.
   Why? Because we're competing and preying on the same target. It's G1/2 and C3 for everyone. Actually the same goes for every levels of TH, but then again it takes a lot and by a lot, i mean a whole new level of difficulty for TH 9 and TH 10 which is around 8 times of TH 8 and lower combined.
   
   Still confused? Compare this 3 scenario of the average ratio between active and inactives TH ranging from 8 to 10:
   1. 1 active TH10, 10 active TH9, 100 TH8, 300 inactives (10TH9, 50 TH8, 240 TH7)
   2. 10 active TH10, 30 active TH9, 80 active TH 8, 300 inactives (10TH9, 90 TH8, 200 TH7)
   3. 30 active TH10, 50 active TH9, 60 active TH8, 300 inactives (30TH9, 200 TH8, 70 TH7)
   I don't agree with the core logic that more TH9s in the game means it harder for other TH9s to progress. At TH9, I preyed upon raiding rich TH8s, I made a lot of money off of them, as well as off of abandoned TH9/10s. They could be inactive for just 24-48 hours and you can make a ton off their collectors.
   But then what would happen if all TH8 is TH9? Some of your previous TH8 preys were farming TH7, now they are TH9 preying your TH8 prey. Some of your TH9 peers are now TH10 preying at you. In order to avoid this, you have to gain "advantage" which is going ahead, moving to the next level.
   Sure more people would come and start fresh. But this works only in the case of TH8 and lower. In case of TH10 (end-game) you can't really gain an advantage, more people would turn into TH10, even if the number of TH9 stays the same it will be harder if there are more TH10 preying. And also in case of TH9 it would also be slightly harder if more people are turning into TH10 because TH10 can only farm TH9 and 10, you will have less TH9 target.

I find the loot to be harder to find at lvl9 hall than when i was lvl8. Get board hitting next scrolling through attack after attack trying to find one that 1 I can get most the loot off of or 2 will win back close to what my army cost to build. It has been months since i had a 1 or 2 mil day from looting. If loot is a constant argument with members why not lower the cost of the army to build? I miss the days of boosting my barracks and looting for a few hrs. Sorry supercell but i wont spend any $ on upgrading and instead of hitting next i will just click on a different game. Best of luck guys

I do agree with your core logic but you have not accounted for wars, league bonuses and the massive drain that is nexting.

But in order to understand it we have to look at it the right way. They need people to buy gems and it's those who are most heavily invested that are most likely to gem. When gem sales stop so will the servers. I don't know if I plan to go to far in this game because I can't afford it. But others can afford it and that's good for SC

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hauw

I guess i'm dropping previous #1 because the post is getting too long @.@

1. Assuming all loot produced is raided every 12 hours [why do you make this assumption? I leave my th outside and 95% of the time only lose 1000 of each gold and elixir each time I get raided], one TH9/10 has to raid 5,908 other TH9/10's worth-of-a-day loot. Raiding TH8 is only viable for TH9. [This is false. It's viable for TH9s to also raid TH9/10s.]You get the wrong idea. Assuming you raid 5,098 another TH9/10 with 6 full and maxed gold mines it would take you to max TH 10. I never said anything about losing your loot.
   You still didn't explain why you assumed all loot produced is raided every 12 hours. It is not really clear why you keep saying you raid 5908 bases :confused:
   12 hours are the duration of a shield. 5,908 is 2.552b divided by 432k gold per day.
   Assuming that you and another inactive player plays the game and his/her 432k loot per day is raided completely every day, it would take 5,908 days for you if you produce 0 gold. If there are 10 players than it's 591 days, and so on.
   I almost never let my shield run all 12 hours, I break it to raid usually. And on average per day, I would say I lose about 15k gold/elixir per day. I normally lose 1k gold/elixir at a time each time I get raided. I break my shield 10-20 times a day.
   No it's not your shield but your victim's. Then again the shield doesn't really matter, what matters is the produce on per day basis.
2. If there is exactly 5,908 TH9 in the realm, only 1 of them progress to maxed TH10 on average per day. [There's more than 5,908 TH9s in the realm. And people spend gems on their bases, which you don't account for.]
   There is and i am merely stating the number. You also didn't account gold lost on nexting. And i'm not going to debate which is more, gold lost on nexting or gold produced by gemming. I am merely stating the number. All your calculations are based off of 432k gold per day. This is false for anyone who raids other bases for a profit in gold each day. If I can raid 4 million gold in a day, I am earning 4 mil + 432k gold (minus say 500k gold in next costs, but + 300k gold in league bonus), I'm still earning gold fast enough to keep all 5 builders busy, allowing me to max my base MUCH faster than if I only earn 432k gold a day.
   What if the number of TH9/10 raiders grows every day? Would you still able to loot the same amount every day? It's not about the raiding it's the clogging. Raiding 4 million today may not as easy as 4 million 1 year ago. Why it was easier 1 year ago again? Because less people is farming as a TH9/10 and more as TH8.
   I'm not sure why you are thinking that the number of TH9s and TH10s in the game would have an effect on how much you can raid. Basically the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. If you are rich yourself and you only raid other rich TH9s anf TH10s as a TH10 player, you will make 200k-300k gold per raid, multiplied by 10 raids a day for example. Like I said before, if you make 10 raids a day and earn say 2.5 mil gold, and it takes 2.5 bil gold to max TH10 from TH8, then 1000 days later you're a maxed TH10, not 6000 days as if you only collected from your own collectors.
   It's also a matter of advantage. It's impossible to progress if everyone is TH10, the next upgrade is 3 million, and no gemming is allowed. Since "clogging" exists in TH9/10 whereas maxing costs you 2.5 billion and the real difference is walls, advantage slowly dissapears. Over time, people would get to TH9/10, some will skip walls, and farming will get harder.
3. If more TH8 is turning into TH9 than TH9/10 quitting the game, getting loot is harder as the game goes on. [How do you figure that? More abandoned TH9/10 means better loot from their abandoned collectors. This means loot is actually EASIER to get.]
   Again you get the wrong idea. What i am saying is if there is 100 TH8 is turning to TH9/10 and 10 TH9/10 quitting, getting loot will get harder.
   But you neglect to consider that there are also new TH6s becoming TH7s each day, and TH7s becoming TH8s, it's an endless cycle with people getting stuck at TH10 eventually since that's the highest TH level right now. But who you encounter on raids is purely based on trophies, not on TH level, so you can encounter whichever types of bases depending on the trophy range you stay within.
   Which slowly clogs up to TH9/10... Remember this thread isn't about raiding, the core of the logic is the more TH9 is in the game, the more harder it is for other TH9s to progress the point of absolute scarcity.
   Why? Because we're competing and preying on the same target. It's G1/2 and C3 for everyone. Actually the same goes for every levels of TH, but then again it takes a lot and by a lot, i mean a whole new level of difficulty for TH 9 and TH 10 which is around 8 times of TH 8 and lower combined.
   
   Still confused? Compare this 3 scenario of the average ratio between active and inactives TH ranging from 8 to 10:
   1. 1 active TH10, 10 active TH9, 100 TH8, 300 inactives (10TH9, 50 TH8, 240 TH7)
   2. 10 active TH10, 30 active TH9, 80 active TH 8, 300 inactives (10TH9, 90 TH8, 200 TH7)
   3. 30 active TH10, 50 active TH9, 60 active TH8, 300 inactives (30TH9, 200 TH8, 70 TH7)
   I don't agree with the core logic that more TH9s in the game means it harder for other TH9s to progress. At TH9, I preyed upon raiding rich TH8s, I made a lot of money off of them, as well as off of abandoned TH9/10s. They could be inactive for just 24-48 hours and you can make a ton off their collectors.
   But then what would happen if all TH8 is TH9? Some of your previous TH8 preys were farming TH7, now they are TH9 preying your TH8 prey. Some of your TH9 peers are now TH10 preying at you. In order to avoid this, you have to gain "advantage" which is going ahead, moving to the next level.
   Sure more people would come and start fresh. But this works only in the case of TH8 and lower. In case of TH10 (end-game) you can't really gain an advantage, more people would turn into TH10, even if the number of TH9 stays the same it will be harder if there are more TH10 preying. And also in case of TH9 it would also be slightly harder if more people are turning into TH10 because TH10 can only farm TH9 and 10, you will have less TH9 target.

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So many pretty colors!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hauw

Disclaimer : This is not a thread complaining about loot!!
It's about raiding getting progressively harder every day.

1. Every account needs 2,875,201,950 gold to be maxed.
2. Level 11 gold mine = 3k gold per day, 72k gold per hour, 6 maxed gold mines = 432k gold per day. That's 2,500 days for 1 billion gold!! To get 2,875,201,950 gold would mean 6,656 days. Discouraging number.
3. Most of the gold needed is required in TH9 and TH10. A maxed TH8 needs 2,552,065,350 gold to be a maxed TH10. That's 5,908 days!!
4. Assuming all loot produced is raided every 12 hours, one TH9/10 has to raid 5,908 other TH9/10's worth-of-a-day loot. Raiding TH8 is only viable for TH9.
5. If there is exactly 5,908 TH9 in the realm, only 1 of them progress to maxed TH10 on average per day.
6. Because it takes 5,908 days for a new TH9 maxed TH8 and 748 days for a new account to be a maxed TH8 hitting upgrade to TH9 button, it could be assumed that it's only a matter of time before players are clogged into TH9/10.
7. Except from a very few maxed TH10, every other TH9/10 out there is a farmer.
8. If more TH8 is turning into TH9 than TH9/10 quitting the game, getting loot is harder as the game goes on.
9. It is working as intended but as i've stated before the longer you wait in the game, the more it will get harder for you to progress.
10. Apparently the same goes for Dark Elixir and heroes...
11. Apparently the same also goes for lower THs except that they don't last forever like TH9/10. As in lower TH people move upwards, reducing the 'clog' whereas in end-game the clog could only be reduced by quitting.

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Very interesting and good mathematical analysis.
How many days it takes 5 builders to work non stop to get TH1 to max TH10?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ForgiveMeNot

Very interesting and good mathematical analysis.
How many days it takes 5 builders to work non stop to get TH1 to max TH10?

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I do not know the answer to your question, but I DO know that they large majority of the gold required are for walls and since walls are instant upgrades, the amount of gold you farm from raiding will determine how quickly you max out the most expensive upgrade in the game......... WALLS.

Let me tell you from personal experience, I started playing this game in March 2013, you can check out my base (details in my signature) and ignoring my walls (which are all lvl9 and 10), I feel that I'm about 30% of the way to maxing my TH10 defenses and offenses and the only thing I purchased gems for was one time to instantly finish my 6-day lvl5 spell factory. The rest of my gems were from achievements and removing obstacles, which allowed me to afford my 5th builder.

I think at this rate I'll max TH10 in half a year or so. The heroes will be the last thing to finish for sure. My builders have been occupied about 90% of the time since I started playing, approximately.

all the math in this thread.... it hurts my brain.

http://www.barbaraclifford.com.au/wp...outoforder.jpg

in all seriousness though, as others stated, your assumptions do not take into account any farming, league bonus', war wins/loot, gem buying or negatory things such as being attacked.

We also get 1-gem boost to inject alot of loot into the economy, thereby reducing the clog.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gazaniga

We also get 1-gem boost to inject alot of loot into the economy, thereby reducing the clog.

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Good point.

Some people like to have boosted collectors 24/7 and will spend the gems for this even when it's not a 1-gem boost event.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hawdog

in ORANGE.

Yea this is getting too long, starting to look like a rainbow lol. I think we just see things differently, that's fine I'll leave it at that :) I know what you mean in terms of how 432k gold gets created in the game every 24 hours on one player's base with 6 maxed lvl11 mines. But you can carry a lot more than that. And if you can steal more than you lose, you will essentially max out from TH8-TH10 much quicker than 6000 days, which is how long it would take only earning 432k gold per day. You do this by raiding a lot, and though it gets progressively harder to earn more gold at TH10, some would argue you make more gold FASTER at TH9 than at TH8.

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Jeez... How in the world is this so hard for you to comprehend? His logic is sound. I don't think you are realizing that he is assuming a perfect, hypothetical situation.

To those questioning the OP, I think you are missing the point. The point is that gold doesn't just appear within inactive bases' collectors. It takes time to get there. And with how many people are farming on a daily basis, people are taking (and expecting more) gold faster than collectors actually produce it.

Of course, there are other sources for gold such as war bonus, league bonus, and gems. But that isn't even what this post is about.

What needs to be happening is a pyramid scheme.
Hypothetical numbers so stay with me.

Quantities of players at TH levels
TH1 = 1000
TH2 = 800
TH3 = 600
TH4 = 400
TH5 = 200
TH6 = 100
TH7 = 50
TH8 = 25
TH9 = 10
TH10 = 1

So, TH2s attack TH2s and TH1s, then TH3s attack TH3s and TH2s, TH4s attach TH4s & TH3s and so on all the way up to TH10. So the numerous lower levels are farming and raiding and obviously spending some of it, but the gold will accumulate as it gets higher in the pyramid. If there are more lower levels that are raiding then the gold should move up.

This all depends on where they are staying trophy wise. Maybe the higher levels need to come down in the ranks to get the more available loot.

It could be that there are a large number of TH7s & TH8s spending the money and none is left to trickle up to TH9 & TH10.

Another issue could be that if TH9s are only attacking TH9s there is not much gold generated, it is dependent on the higher TH raiding a lower TH all the way up.

Or, if there are less people joining the game then there are less "feeders" generating the loot.

I don't have number of people playing to know which is correct or it could be a combination of each.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by squirlz

What needs to be happening is a pyramid scheme.
Hypothetical numbers so stay with me.

Quantities of players at TH levels
TH1 = 1000
TH2 = 800
TH3 = 600
TH4 = 400
TH5 = 200
TH6 = 100
TH7 = 50
TH8 = 25
TH9 = 10
TH10 = 1

So, TH2s attack TH2s and TH1s, then TH3s attack TH3s and TH2s, TH4s attach TH4s & TH3s and so on all the way up to TH10. So the numerous lower levels are farming and raiding and obviously spending some of it, but the gold will accumulate as it gets higher in the pyramid. If there are more lower levels that are raiding then the gold should move up.

This all depends on where they are staying trophy wise. Maybe the higher levels need to come down in the ranks to get the more available loot.

It could be that there are a large number of TH7s & TH8s spending the money and none is left to trickle up to TH9 & TH10.

Another issue could be that if TH9s are only attacking TH9s there is not much gold generated, it is dependent on the higher TH raiding a lower TH all the way up.

Or, if there are less people joining the game then there are less "feeders" generating the loot.

I don't have number of people playing to know which is correct or it could be a combination of each.

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Exactly! This game's economy is designed like a pyramid. In the lower end it's TH 1 and in the top end it's TH 10.
However the core of the game, which is raiding, depends on picking easier targets.
And the higher you go, the harder you loot. 15 mins giant healer combo in TH7 vs TH6 may result in 100%. The same 15 mins army won't get the same result in TH10 vs TH9.

In addition to the increasing difficulty, the amount of loot skyrockets to 8 times in last 2 THs (2.5 billion versus 300 million). This creates the "clog" where every TH9/10 tries to get to max while competition grows harder. So at the very end, the pyramid became a hourglass unless SC do something about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thenextman

I do agree with your core logic but you have not accounted for wars, league bonuses and the massive drain that is nexting.

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I know, but apparently on end game, clan wars is a DE sink. You spend like 2k DE for 1 golem 3 witches or 30 hogs and you may break even if you win. Maybe you will profit a little. If you lose, then you end with a huge minus.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ForgiveMeNot

Very interesting and good mathematical analysis.
How many days it takes 5 builders to work non stop to get TH1 to max TH10?

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Here you can view it from here also with the gold costs and time.

http://clashofclans.wikia.com/wiki/Cumulative_Costs

But if you're too lazy i will answer it for you.
1,812 days 23 hours 7 minutes if you only use 1 builder.
With 5 builders it will take you almost a year if you can spread your builders perfectly.

Stop crying and be patience skipping! I'm a TH10 for 3 weeks now and I was afraid about the loot. My mates told me barching as a TH10 would be terrible but I experience nothing at all what they said. You don't get that million raids anymore but I dont have problems in finding 400-700 k raids.

I thought about this too. Although not to the extent that the op did! I only read the first page then got frustrated because of forum ♥♥♥♥♥ing (and someone not getting the concept that their are a finite amount of mines/collectors producing loot)...

At some point, the loot system will need to be looked at. Or, sc will have to move on to a different game. The problem with re-doing the loot system is that it could cut into profits. Sc makes the core of their cash flow on people buying resources(or time) and making loot easier to get would reduce the cash coming in.

The developers need to get paid! I hope they can find a balance between profits vs funfactor for their customers that works. Right now, I think its fine. Loot is pretty easy to come by (for the most part) and their isn't an issue. But I think it is something that sc should seriously look into.

its quite simple really. if everyone puts their th outside unprotected. we can all just snipe on every attack. that way everyone gets rich on the loot bonus instead of relying on finding a juicy base.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nunchaku

its quite simple really. if everyone puts their th outside unprotected. we can all just snipe on every attack. that way everyone gets rich on the loot bonus instead of relying on finding a juicy base.

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Lol, we'd all be in champions league in a day!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nunchaku

its quite simple really. if everyone puts their th outside unprotected. we can all just snipe on every attack. that way everyone gets rich on the loot bonus instead of relying on finding a juicy base.

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This would work, but everyone would have to clear the shield or we would run out of bases.

We should organize this, everyone put the TH out, then raid for 10-15 minutes, then stay off for 5 or until raided. Then get back on and raid again, rinse and repeat. If we did this for 24hrs we should effectively increase the loot in rotation.

And if everyone does get into crystal or above the loot bonus is a lot better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by herranton

Lol, we'd all be in champions league in a day!!!!

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exactly lets break the system and get rich while doing it. why spend 100k nexting when if every next base has a th outside you spend 4 barbs and for crystal league and above you get 20k+.

if you get hit well you only lose cups which doesnt matter anyways case every base is snipable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by herranton

I thought about this too. Although not to the extent that the op did! I only read the first page then got frustrated because of forum ♥♥♥♥♥ing (and someone not getting the concept that their are a finite amount of mines/collectors producing loot)...

At some point, the loot system will need to be looked at. Or, sc will have to move on to a different game. The problem with re-doing the loot system is that it could cut into profits. Sc makes the core of their cash flow on people buying resources(or time) and making loot easier to get would reduce the cash coming in.

The developers need to get paid! I hope they can find a balance between profits vs funfactor for their customers that works. Right now, I think its fine. Loot is pretty easy to come by (for the most part) and their isn't an issue. But I think it is something that sc should seriously look into.

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I agree that developers need to get paid and people who gem loot will still gem them anyway. I believe most of SC's profits came from the top .1% who is clouding at champs.
There are multiple ways to fix them. Such as :

1. Level 12+ collectors (since we're maxed with 11 at TH7)
2. Clan village system
3. Mastermind's Quest system
4. New buildings and units (seriously it has been a year since the last witch and inferno tower update)
5. Longer boost period for mines and pumps (it's like no one uses them)
6. Instead of hiding inactives allow them to get raided. People play the game to raid anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by squirlz

This would work, but everyone would have to clear the shield or we would run out of bases.

We should organize this, everyone put the TH out, then raid for 10-15 minutes, then stay off for 5 or until raided. Then get back on and raid again, rinse and repeat. If we did this for 24hrs we should effectively increase the loot in rotation.

And if everyone does get into crystal or above the loot bonus is a lot better.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by nunchaku

exactly lets break the system and get rich while doing it. why spend 100k nexting when if every next base has a th outside you spend 4 barbs and for crystal league and above you get 20k+.

if you get hit well you only lose cups which doesnt matter anyways case every base is snipable.

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Guys... Problem is how to relay this message to the players around the world. Forum is only a tiny fraction of the community here...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TMAllen

Jeez... How in the world is this so hard for you to comprehend? His logic is sound. I don't think you are realizing that he is assuming a perfect, hypothetical situation.

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But TMAllen, there was no part of that math I disagreed with. I even acknowledged that it would take as many days as the OP said it would require to max out ones base from TH8-TH10 (something like 6000 days or slightly less), but my simple point was that 6000 days ends up being way less than 6000 days if you raid and profit from raids each day. It only stays 6000 days if you never raid, you collect everything in your collectors before it ever reaches capacity, and no one ever raids you. Then it'll take all 6000 days.

I also understand the clogging of th9/10 bases because there's nowhere else to move up to from there and that's a popular place for premies to quit (because they upgraded their THs trying to unlock the new toys, not knowing about loot penalty and their offensive tier 1 troops are still only lvl 3).

But by quitting the game, their bases remain in the system for a while still, and still remain a part of the matchmaking system so people will find these bases and raid their collectors. This is resources these abandoners will never use, and will just generate for the rest of the economy to benefit from. They are injecting resources into the economy and not collecting any for themselves. This is what helps make the economy sustainable.

It has been rumored that SC tweaks the amount of abandoned bases that can be found or matched up against in matchmaking to keep control of the loot available in the game.

Gold in the game is created by gemming, mines, league bonuses, and clan wars.
Gold is removed from the game in being dumped into upgrades, and by 'next' costs.

SC has theoretical "control" over how much loot is injected into the economy by manipulating how many abandoned bases are considered active and are able to potentially generate $432k Gold each 24 hours for others to raid (it's a %age of that, something like 75-80%, because that's how much you can raid fro a collector, can't raid 100%. Don't quote me on the 75-80%).

Supposedly, there are enough abandoned bases in the game to make the "gold injected into game" figure higher than the "gold removed from the game" figure. The true numbers are only known by SC.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hauw

I agree that developers need to get paid and people who gem loot will still gem them anyway. I believe most of SC's profits came from the top .1% who is clouding at champs.
There are multiple ways to fix them. Such as :

1. Level 12+ collectors (since we're maxed with 11 at TH7)
2. Clan village system
3. Mastermind's Quest system
4. New buildings and units (seriously it has been a year since the last witch and inferno tower update)
5. Longer boost period for mines and pumps (it's like no one uses them)
6. Instead of hiding inactives allow them to get raided. People play the game to raid anyway.

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Yes to all !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hauw

Guys... Problem is how to relay this message to the players around the world. Forum is only a tiny fraction of the community here...

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Totally true.

There is another similar example about gas prices and gas companies. The summary is that if we all boycott buying gas for our vehicles for just 3 days, it will force gas companies to drive gas prices down. That's a very dumbed down version, but you get the idea.

But like hauw said, this requires 100% consumer participation, but you're only reaching a small fraction of that population who will participate, so it won't work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hawdog

SC has theoretical "control" over how much loot is injected into the economy by manipulating how many abandoned bases are considered active and are able to potentially generate $432k Gold each 24 hours for others to raid (it's a %age of that, something like 75-80%, because that's how much you can raid fro a collector, can't raid 100%. Don't quote me on the 75-80%).

Supposedly, there are enough abandoned bases in the game to make the "gold injected into game" figure higher than the "gold removed from the game" figure. The true numbers are only known by SC.

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True. It would be similar to The Fed's quantitative easing.
Gold = dollars.
Inactives = the fed's dollar printing machine.
Stimulus = bringing more inactives into the queue.

Except that maybe it could be possible that they haven't realized this. Big problem is indeed big O.o
If a SC staff/mod ever read this, instead of paying ads and TV commercials, why not increase the longevity of the game?
Update brings back old players. Raiding keeps players playing.
Many of my TH8 friends are now TH9 and quitting because they see 30k~50k too much on the queue...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hawdog

Totally true.
But like hauw said, this requires 100% consumer participation, but you're only reaching a small fraction of that population who will participate, so it won't work.

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technically it can if everyone spreads the word. one clan here one youtube channel there.

its technically beneficial for everyone to have their th outside anyways.

put it on all the social media outlets, forums like reddit and have a spokesman like chief pat saying to put your th outside and you'll start seeing more people do it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nunchaku

technically it can if everyone spreads the word. one clan here one youtube channel there.

its technically beneficial for everyone to have their th outside anyways.

put it on all the social media outlets, forums like reddit and have a spokesman like chief pat saying to put your th outside and you'll start seeing more people do it.

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Alright so who has youtube channel or close friends with any streamer? Because i don't :p

Your logic is sound, however, when you look at the massive number of players you see that there are many more inactive players then actives. Thus, even though it would take 6k days to max with only mines (excluding next cost, ect.) with the insane amount of inactive players, everybody could max base much quicker sucking the loot out of the mines and collectors. However to combat this, SC has decreased the chance of finding an inactive in search Q (not to mention that if there is an active base, with little money, at low cups, players would continually skip over this player, and never attack him, having many of these players can make finding juicy attacks take longer) So we are left with 2 choices, farm the inactives (which is difficult with them being pushed down the Q) Or we can farm the loot from actives that chose choice 1. Thus only the most active players are maxing bases (I'd guess less then 100 players have maxed via 100% farming). So yes, you are correct in the sense that the more active TH9s there are, the more difficult it will be to farm. But there will also be more TH8s to farm, TH9s and 10s that are now inactive. We would have to know the numbers behind how many of each TH were active vs inactive.

You need to subtract about 2,000,000,000 from what people will take out of the system to max out thier village. The majority of players will not farm walls beyond level 8/9 let alone max out thier village.

As others have pointed out you have omitted other sources of gold and costs. The most significant source being league bonus which can pump more gold into the economy than active players collectors(?) And cost being the next button.

Inactives are not removed, I would say they are managed. There is no relevant queue/line you have to next through to get them. Think of the queue like gum ball machine you cannot see. The inactive gum balls represent a small fraction of the gum balls in the machine. The machine is constantly mixed and spits out a gum ball when you hit next. The amount of Inactives are scarce compared to actives, sometimes you get lucky and get an inactive on the first pull and sometimes you will need to pull 30+ times.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jietoh

There are a few things that are not being accounted for:

1. as you said in one of your follow ups, the amount of gold being wasted nexting is not accounted for in your calculations
2. The amount of gold gained as loot bonus from wars is not being accounted for in your calculations
3. the amount of gold gained as win reward from your league is not being accounted for in your calculations
4. most of the gold required is for walls. Most people are pretty happy progressing without maxing walls.
5. lastly and perhaps most significantly, people who quit the game are pushed to the bottom of the attack que. Supercell has stated that they want people raiding other active players which means that all those inactive accounts which are churning out resources by the billions are going to waste because they almost never appear in the attack que. so when you talk about people quitting the game you have to remove them from the equation for the most part.

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I agreed with this post until you suggested all inactives almost never appear in the attack queue. I, and others, find Inactives frequently which is far from almost never. They have the largest impact on the economy with, perhaps, the exception of league bonuses.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Coathanger

I agreed with this post until you suggested all inactives almost never appear in the attack queue. I, and others, find Inactives frequently which is far from almost never. They have the largest impact on the economy with, perhaps, the exception of league bonuses.

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Yeah inactives are there, eventhough they're difficult to find. But, don't you think it scary that the largest impact on coc economy rely upon players becoming inactives ? It's like, just to keep the ball rolling, certain number of players need to become inactives ?

Not really mind-blowing :rolleyes:

These are all just assumptions, hundreds of players reach a new TH level everyday. This just has a some numbers but no actual evidence.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hauw

I guess i'm dropping previous #1 because the post is getting too long @.@

1. Assuming all loot produced is raided every 12 hours [why do you make this assumption? I leave my th outside and 95% of the time only lose 1000 of each gold and elixir each time I get raided], one TH9/10 has to raid 5,908 other TH9/10's worth-of-a-day loot. Raiding TH8 is only viable for TH9. [This is false. It's viable for TH9s to also raid TH9/10s.]You get the wrong idea. Assuming you raid 5,098 another TH9/10 with 6 full and maxed gold mines it would take you to max TH 10. I never said anything about losing your loot.
   You still didn't explain why you assumed all loot produced is raided every 12 hours. It is not really clear why you keep saying you raid 5908 bases :confused:
   12 hours are the duration of a shield. 5,908 is 2.552b divided by 432k gold per day.
   Assuming that you and another inactive player plays the game and his/her 432k loot per day is raided completely every day, it would take 5,908 days for you if you produce 0 gold. If there are 10 players than it's 591 days, and so on.
   I almost never let my shield run all 12 hours, I break it to raid usually. And on average per day, I would say I lose about 15k gold/elixir per day. I normally lose 1k gold/elixir at a time each time I get raided. I break my shield 10-20 times a day.
   No it's not your shield but your victim's. Then again the shield doesn't really matter, what matters is the produce on per day basis.
2. If there is exactly 5,908 TH9 in the realm, only 1 of them progress to maxed TH10 on average per day. [There's more than 5,908 TH9s in the realm. And people spend gems on their bases, which you don't account for.]
   There is and i am merely stating the number. You also didn't account gold lost on nexting. And i'm not going to debate which is more, gold lost on nexting or gold produced by gemming. I am merely stating the number. All your calculations are based off of 432k gold per day. This is false for anyone who raids other bases for a profit in gold each day. If I can raid 4 million gold in a day, I am earning 4 mil + 432k gold (minus say 500k gold in next costs, but + 300k gold in league bonus), I'm still earning gold fast enough to keep all 5 builders busy, allowing me to max my base MUCH faster than if I only earn 432k gold a day.
   What if the number of TH9/10 raiders grows every day? Would you still able to loot the same amount every day? It's not about the raiding it's the clogging. Raiding 4 million today may not as easy as 4 million 1 year ago. Why it was easier 1 year ago again? Because less people is farming as a TH9/10 and more as TH8.
   I'm not sure why you are thinking that the number of TH9s and TH10s in the game would have an effect on how much you can raid. Basically the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. If you are rich yourself and you only raid other rich TH9s anf TH10s as a TH10 player, you will make 200k-300k gold per raid, multiplied by 10 raids a day for example. Like I said before, if you make 10 raids a day and earn say 2.5 mil gold, and it takes 2.5 bil gold to max TH10 from TH8, then 1000 days later you're a maxed TH10, not 6000 days as if you only collected from your own collectors.
   It's also a matter of advantage. It's impossible to progress if everyone is TH10, the next upgrade is 3 million, and no gemming is allowed. Since "clogging" exists in TH9/10 whereas maxing costs you 2.5 billion and the real difference is walls, advantage slowly dissapears. Over time, people would get to TH9/10, some will skip walls, and farming will get harder.
3. If more TH8 is turning into TH9 than TH9/10 quitting the game, getting loot is harder as the game goes on. [How do you figure that? More abandoned TH9/10 means better loot from their abandoned collectors. This means loot is actually EASIER to get.]
   Again you get the wrong idea. What i am saying is if there is 100 TH8 is turning to TH9/10 and 10 TH9/10 quitting, getting loot will get harder.
   But you neglect to consider that there are also new TH6s becoming TH7s each day, and TH7s becoming TH8s, it's an endless cycle with people getting stuck at TH10 eventually since that's the highest TH level right now. But who you encounter on raids is purely based on trophies, not on TH level, so you can encounter whichever types of bases depending on the trophy range you stay within.
   Which slowly clogs up to TH9/10... Remember this thread isn't about raiding, the core of the logic is the more TH9 is in the game, the more harder it is for other TH9s to progress the point of absolute scarcity.
   Why? Because we're competing and preying on the same target. It's G1/2 and C3 for everyone. Actually the same goes for every levels of TH, but then again it takes a lot and by a lot, i mean a whole new level of difficulty for TH 9 and TH 10 which is around 8 times of TH 8 and lower combined.
   
   Still confused? Compare this 3 scenario of the average ratio between active and inactives TH ranging from 8 to 10:
   1. 1 active TH10, 10 active TH9, 100 TH8, 300 inactives (10TH9, 50 TH8, 240 TH7)
   2. 10 active TH10, 30 active TH9, 80 active TH 8, 300 inactives (10TH9, 90 TH8, 200 TH7)
   3. 30 active TH10, 50 active TH9, 60 active TH8, 300 inactives (30TH9, 200 TH8, 70 TH7)
   I don't agree with the core logic that more TH9s in the game means it harder for other TH9s to progress. At TH9, I preyed upon raiding rich TH8s, I made a lot of money off of them, as well as off of abandoned TH9/10s. They could be inactive for just 24-48 hours and you can make a ton off their collectors.
   But then what would happen if all TH8 is TH9? Some of your previous TH8 preys were farming TH7, now they are TH9 preying your TH8 prey. Some of your TH9 peers are now TH10 preying at you. In order to avoid this, you have to gain "advantage" which is going ahead, moving to the next level.
   Sure more people would come and start fresh. But this works only in the case of TH8 and lower. In case of TH10 (end-game) you can't really gain an advantage, more people would turn into TH10, even if the number of TH9 stays the same it will be harder if there are more TH10 preying. And also in case of TH9 it would also be slightly harder if more people are turning into TH10 because TH10 can only farm TH9 and 10, you will have less TH9 target.

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You guys psyched me out

Meh... I'm at th9, and two bases that are th7. I don't have any problems farming with any of them. So, no, loot isn't getting "drier". Nothing mindblowing about it. Some people are just to impatient. Sometimes I'll hit a base with 500K combined loot within a few "Nexts". Other times it might take 50-60+ "nexts".

I still get the resources, and continue raiding and upgrading.

Patience.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BoardGuest808888

Yeah inactives are there, eventhough they're difficult to find. But, don't you think it scary that the largest impact on coc economy rely upon players becoming inactives ? It's like, just to keep the ball rolling, certain number of players need to become inactives ?

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This is true to most multiplayer games of this sort.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hawdog

I do not know the answer to your question, but I DO know that they large majority of the gold required are for walls and since walls are instant upgrades, the amount of gold you farm from raiding will determine how quickly you max out the most expensive upgrade in the game......... WALLS.

Let me tell you from personal experience, I started playing this game in March 2013, you can check out my base (details in my signature) and ignoring my walls (which are all lvl9 and 10), I feel that I'm about 30% of the way to maxing my TH10 defenses and offenses and the only thing I purchased gems for was one time to instantly finish my 6-day lvl5 spell factory. The rest of my gems were from achievements and removing obstacles, which allowed me to afford my 5th builder.

I think at this rate I'll max TH10 in half a year or so. The heroes will be the last thing to finish for sure. My builders have been occupied about 90% of the time since I started playing, approximately.

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I started playing this game in end of Jan 2014, no gems, 4 builders (gems from achievement rewards), TH10 (premmie) and I am farming TH10 now... lucky i rushed my TH then.. if i max everything b4 upgrade TH, i have to wait a year and half to be able to farm TH10.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hauw

Here you can view it from here also with the gold costs and time.

http://clashofclans.wikia.com/wiki/Cumulative_Costs

But if you're too lazy i will answer it for you.
1,812 days 23 hours 7 minutes if you only use 1 builder.
With 5 builders it will take you almost a year if you can spread your builders perfectly.

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Yes, if ppl start playing the game and buy 5 builders, it ll take 1-2 years to max everything.
That means, for ppl like me who doesn't gem and only rely on archievements rewarded gems to buy the builders will take around 2 years to max everything.

I am a TH 9 and I cannot find a good trophy level to farm at!!! Farming has significantly slowed down since I got to TH 9.... I used to find around 3-5 600,000-800,000 combined loot atttacks a day and now it is hard to even find a 400,000 combined loot attack!!!
And with every Upgrade over 3,000,000 it is getting a lot harder to upgrade anything!!!

and makign the point that you only get TH sniped is a bad one bec I log of for like 2 seconds and get 600,000 combined taken from me when I only have 1.5 mil of Gold an Elixer.......

On Average I am clicking next 50,000 to only get around 150,000 Gold.....

today for instance rading for almost 2 hours was able to go from 1.6m Gold to 2.5m Gold....... So i was going to do my last raid and was unable to find a base.. spent around 150,000 looking for a base so i am down to 2.3m Gold then I just got raided for 1.8 gold but no shield bec he only 39% me....down to 2.1m gold so its almost like I did not raid at all in the last 2 hours....

This is almost an everyday occurance..... i get raided by TH 10's which take all my loot and I can hardly get any in return.....

Does anyone know of a good Trophy level to farm in... I have been staying around 1600-2100

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ownage21

I am a TH 9 and I cannot find a good trophy level to farm at!!! Farming has significantly slowed down since I got to TH 9.... I used to find around 3-5 600,000-800,000 combined loot atttacks a day and now it is hard to even find a 400,000 combined loot attack!!!
And with every Upgrade over 3,000,000 it is getting a lot harder to upgrade anything!!!

and makign the point that you only get TH sniped is a bad one bec I log of for like 2 seconds and get 600,000 combined taken from me when I only have 1.5 mil of Gold an Elixer.......

On Average I am clicking next 50,000 to only get around 150,000 Gold.....

today for instance rading for almost 2 hours was able to go from 1.6m Gold to 2.5m Gold....... So i was going to do my last raid and was unable to find a base.. spent around 150,000 looking for a base so i am down to 2.3m Gold then I just got raided for 1.8 gold but no shield bec he only 39% me....down to 2.1m gold so its almost like I did not raid at all in the last 2 hours....

This is almost an everyday occurance..... i get raided by TH 10's which take all my loot and I can hardly get any in return.....

Does anyone know of a good Trophy level to farm in... I have been staying around 1600-2100

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can you post a picture of your base or let us know your in-game name and clan name so we can check?

How can they only get 39% and not give you a shield if your TH is outside? Your TH should be far away from any defenses, so it's completely unprotected. If you cover the TH with decorations, then this increases your chances of getting TH sniped because players don't have to wonder if you have hidden teslas surrounding your TH. They can safely attack you without being afraid.

Right now, in my entire defense log, 38 out of 39 attacks are all just TH snipes. I have been holding 3-5 million of each gold and elixir too. 2200-2300 trophies.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ownage21

I am a TH 9 and I cannot find a good trophy level to farm at!!! Farming has significantly slowed down since I got to TH 9.... I used to find around 3-5 600,000-800,000 combined loot atttacks a day and now it is hard to even find a 400,000 combined loot attack!!!
And with every Upgrade over 3,000,000 it is getting a lot harder to upgrade anything!!!

and makign the point that you only get TH sniped is a bad one bec I log of for like 2 seconds and get 600,000 combined taken from me when I only have 1.5 mil of Gold an Elixer.......

On Average I am clicking next 50,000 to only get around 150,000 Gold.....

today for instance rading for almost 2 hours was able to go from 1.6m Gold to 2.5m Gold....... So i was going to do my last raid and was unable to find a base.. spent around 150,000 looking for a base so i am down to 2.3m Gold then I just got raided for 1.8 gold but no shield bec he only 39% me....down to 2.1m gold so its almost like I did not raid at all in the last 2 hours....

This is almost an everyday occurance..... i get raided by TH 10's which take all my loot and I can hardly get any in return.....

Does anyone know of a good Trophy level to farm in... I have been staying around 1600-2100

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They are all hiding at Sub 200.. i went there few days ago for the first time and was surprised seeing all those TH9-10 easy loots (200k-300k of each, looks like all the easy loot from crystal went down to sub 200)

Has there been a recent change to the loot system or the availability?

I just went to TH8 and I seem to mainly find bases with about 100K total combined. Nexting for 50K-100K gold just to profit about 50K seems like a waste of time. I used to find bases with patience and made it worthwhile to get 300-400K combined.
Is there a better trophy range to be in?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vinnie009

Has there been a recent change to the loot system or the availability?

I just went to TH8 and I seem to mainly find bases with about 100K total combined. Nexting for 50K-100K gold just to profit about 50K seems like a waste of time. I used to find bases with patience and made it worthwhile to get 300-400K combined.
Is there a better trophy range to be in?

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if you just went from TH7 to TH8, then you have been subjected to a different loot penalty system. It's not longer going to be worth it for you to attack TH6s, because you will only get 50% of what you used to be able to get from them as a TH7.

So now, you must attack TH7s (90% of available), TH8s (100% of what's available), or premie/abandoned TH9s/10s.

As a general rule of thumb, when you go up a TH level, you need to increase your farming trophy range to give yourself a greater chance to encounter bases that are your own TH level, or just 1 level below.

Read the bottom half of this link below, starting from the "loot" section: http://clashofclans.wikia.com/wiki/Raids

name: samuel
clan: WEUNASHAMED_116
24 MEMBERS
MY TH IS WAY ON THE OUTSIDE..... I JUST HAVE BAD FARMING... ITS DECENT FROM 6PM TO MIDNIGHT......