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When you say this, you sound like a dumb baby. Don't say it.
They are not greedy. They are a business, and they work really hard, and they do excellent work, and they deserve the money they make. It astounds me that they can make a fantastic game that is free to play and also make good money doing it, and I'm really glad they can.
Crybabies are shocked to discover that gaming companies are not charities.
Most people just expect them to function more like a gaming company than some cash cow constantly implementing things into the game designed to make you spend money, most times at the expense of playability.
The things you just said don't make sense. You shouldn't have said them and you look worse for having said them.
There's a difference in how money is made:
1) Make everyone pay the same amount for the game
2) Let some people pay more than others to advance more quickly but not in a way that provides a direct advantage in battles
3) Let people who pay gain a direct advantage in battles over people who don't pay
#1 and #2 are ethical for-profit business practices. #3 is greedy. So -=D =D, OP.
I teach, and I think I will print that quote and put it up in my office. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Blobertson
If people want to be outraged at people makeing too much money, I' suggest researching the proffit margins involved in oil and liquid petrolium. Quite impressive. SC is a business, i hope they make money, and as much as they can for as long as they can. Business is survival of the fittest, market trends can change drastically and your margains can drop overnight. So business quite literally tend to go hard or go home, otherwise they might just get eaten by a polar bear. So if people really want to get mad, get that tie dyed T-shirt and headband out the old closet, blame capitslism and move to North Korea. I think you will certainly be happier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blobertson
PS i agree with you I don't know why i quoted you like that haha.
Whoa whoa, MisterV, let's keep the language mild.
First, what crazy system of ethics are you using? IF SC let people gain direct advantage in battle using money (which they don't) it wouldn't be unethical at all, unless you were maybe forced to play the game and you lost money for losing or something.
Second, nobody who enjoys the game without spending money ends up spending money on the game- they just stop playing. If they do like it, they can pay money to reduce the amount of time it takes to progress. That's the only thing you can buy in this game, time. SC does this because they're intelligent and the game is much more successful than it would be if the game was pay-to-win.
In terms of global rankings, yes, you have to spend money to stay at the top, but that's a side effect of the game's bias toward attacking (by which I mean the fact that a skilled player will usually win against a base designed by an equally player at the same level of progress in the game) which, given the asynchronous combat style, makes the game for fun for everyone over all. I'd go so far as to say that SC has sacrificed metagame balance in high level play in order to balance the metagame for the mid-game (800-2400 trophies) which is exactly the opposite of catering to gemmers. Do you think that the game Jorge Yao plays is more fun than the game you play? I don't.
Epic!! Might have to instagram this!Quote:
Originally Posted by Blobertson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blobertson
Entire post was good, but specifically:
"Do you think that the game Jorge Yao plays is more fun than the game you play? I don't."
Headshot.
How can you advance more quickly without having an advantage in battles? 2 and 3 are the same in my eyes.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
If you don't like the setup, no one is forcing you to play.
Actually that's a good point. From a top ranked clan member:Quote:
Originally Posted by Blobertson
Quote:
Originally Posted by test
Ooof, that's even worse than I thought. Yeah, definitely not upset that I'll never be playing up there.
Anyways, you have my respect for replying with a cool head instead of vitriol. *fist bump*
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKStus
Because when you pay to advance, you're matched against people who have also advanced, whether or not those people paid to get where they are. Gemming to TH8 or 9 doesn't give you an advantage- certainly you can beat TH7 players more easily, but the loot penalty means that if you can't do so profitably. You advanced more quickly, but at the same time all your opponents have advanced, since now you have to attack TH8 or 9 bases to profit.
Matchmaking is based on your trophy count, not how "advanced" your base is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blobertson
Perhaps I should reword my statement... Why would anyone pay money if it didn't offer them an advantage in battles? Obviously the people who rushed their town halls didn't know any better. A gemmer who knows what they are doing has a clear advantage and rightfully so.
Farming gets boring eventually. Seeing if you can hit the top 10 is a fun goal. LOL, I was top 5 for a day, dropping now because, yes, it can get tedious at times looking for a match ;) If you could chat to your clan while looking for a match that would be cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blobertson
To answer your question, DKStus: this is not purely, or even primarily, a competitive game. (This changes at the very top end, obviously, but is true for the bulk of the game.) The object of the game is to develop your base, which is done most easily by competing with other players for resources. The loot cap, mines, and shields mean that the individual player is cushioned from a purely competitive environment- even if you're terrible at the game, you automatically generate loot to spend, and less than half can be stolen every day. No one can stop you from maxing out your base totally- it just takes a lot longer if you're bad at the game. The only difference between a skilled player, an unskilled player, and a gemmer is the amount of time they spend getting to where they are. A player buys gems to save time, not to win battles. (End game excepted, as I mentioned)
Matchmaking is based on your trophy count, which you generally manipulate in order to find a sweet spot between the amount of loot you can raid and how difficult it is to get.
An example: right now I'm maybe 75% done maxing my base at TH7. My camps and important troop upgrades were maxed pretty shortly after I got to TH7. The best way to instantly make my army stronger (gain an advantage in battle) would be to gem to TH8 and gem my lab upgrades. At that point, however, the trophy range at which I can raid profitably has to increase, since I can no longer farm TH6. So, I've used gems to advance my base, but the bases I'm raiding now are more advanced too. I haven't done anything a non-gemmer can't do, I've just done it in less time. My battles aren't any easier because I have to battle more difficult bases in order to get the same amount of loot.
There is an exception: I could stay at TH7 and gem 3 spells per battle, gem my BK to L10 and gem him awake for every battle. What's the point, though? I'd be spending way more money for loot than I would be spending if I just gemmed my buildings directly- after all, isn't the point of battles getting loot to spend on upgrades?
Greed is wants, everyone has wants, therefore everyone is greedy. Supercell is as greedy as everyone else. Even the church is greedy because they "want" more people.
This is one of the most immature threads made on here to date, let alone today. You don't speak for them, or anyone else for that matter. If paying players are calling them greedy, it's for SC to respond, not some nobody like yourself. Stop making ♥♥♥♥ threads, please.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blobertson
That's incorrect, Syaoraen. Greed is want that is excessive and selfish.
Thecageyone, there's nothing wrong with being offended on behalf of someone or something else. It's natural to want to intervene when you see a good thing being defamed.
Those who think SuperCell is greedy have probably never played the game Crime City by Gree.
By the way, Blobertson, I completely agree. +1
You cannot draw a line for excessive therefore your arguement is invalid. Same with selfish, there's always a reason other than just for ones self.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blobertson
Greedy or not is an opinion, you wanting to justify your way of thinking is too greedy.
There's nothing human do that can be consider selfless.
Exactly. Building up your base can be done with or without gems. It's just that with gems, it happens faster. One could argue you are shooting yourself in the foot because by gemming yourself to a maxed out base more quickly, you're missing out on the fun of playing the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blobertson
On the other hand, it is not possible to maintain 3000+ trophies without gems. Keeping a high trophy count is impossible when your adversaries are gemming their troops, spells, and barracks. They can recover trophies quickly and attack you more often.
Excessive means "exceeding what is usual, proper, necessary, or normal." I haven't seen any evidence that Supercell's desire to earn a profit exceeds what is usual, proper, necessary, or normal. Greed is subjective, yes, but there are values that can be generally agreed upon. Most people would agree that a man who only wants money to feed his family is not greedy, and that a man whose needs are all satisfied but who still wants more money when others are in need is greedy.
I'll agree that no human is purely altruistic, but selfishness is not binary. You can consider your own wants and needs and not be selfish as long as you also consider the wants and needs of those whose lives you affect. There's no evidence that Supercell is disregarding the desires of the community- in fact, there's substantial evidence that they're doing their best to listen to and process our complaints and requests.
Yes, MisterV, that's true. My argument is that maintaining 3000+ trophies is not a necessary part of the game, and that maintaining 3000+ doesn't negatively impact the gameplay of those who don't want to play at that trophy level, and so there's no sense in which a player at 3000+ trophies "has an advantage" over me, farming happily at TH7.
EDIT: This thread is so much fun.
This thread is too greedy.
I disagree! I started the thread because there are real people who work for SC, and they don't deserve to be publicly maligned when they're doing nothing wrong, and quite a lot of things right. I was thinking specifically of the people who are payed to represent SC here in the forums, and who can't possibly enjoy all the defamation they have to read. I figured I'd try to balance things out, let them know not everyone feels that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blobertson
Noooo, don't start defining words again, quick hide before he comes back and corrects you!
Seriously though, for some reason you start the best threads ;)
Supercell is not greedy, infact this is another update where I think overall gem usage (by the top players anyway) will be reduced. Once you max your base gems are mainly spend on:
1) gemming heros awake after a battle (no change here)
2) gemming spells so you can attack again (huge change here, all of us gem all spells immediately after a battle, this is now much cheaper)
3) geming elix to build an army (we now get more elix per attack, fewer gems required)
Gold is rarely gemmed at the high levels, can normally make enough in attacks.
Just a different perspective ;)
The game has changed a lot since it first started out. Before it was much easier to max your village out, with there being fewer defenses, fewer levels, infinite loot from the Goblin Missions; and I think the philosophy was "pay to stay on the top", since the most consumption came from making the troops, and shortening their training time for constant raids (and the fact that with easier build upgrades, people were more after trophies). Then with the new stuff being added on, the new levels, defenses, Goblin Missions no longer being infinite, people saw that the fastest way to max out your village was by the farming strategies, and trophies became irrelevant. Now the philosophy was "pay to get, and stay on the top", which is where the whining started. Even now, every update adds more things which are highly consuming, whether it is resources or time. Now most of the people that have maxed out bases are the Gemmers, as it became increasingly difficult for normal players to gather enough resources, and it became very time consuming to upgrade it all. So as you can see, the game has changed a lot. But is it fair for the people who paid a lot of money to be equal to those who don't spend a single cent? It is a company after all, and like with any company, you'd expect to get a better product with the increasing amount of money you spend on. That's all the Gemmers get: they get a better end product. The game is still the same for both parties. Everything they have, you can have. You just have to choose which path do you want to go with: "dedicating a lot of your time and skill" or "trading your skill and time in for money". Since Supercell is a company, you can't really criticize them for wanting their product to be more lucrative, as all companies want that. Ultimately, the choice is up to you.
Personally, I'd get bored if my village was maxed out and all I could do is trophy hunt. The fact that the upgrades are more difficult to achieve, provides me with the motivation that I need to play the game, and it provides me with the satisfaction after I get those upgrades. It's a win for SC and a win for me. Right now I'll be farming elixir like a mad man, to get to those Golems.
Super Cell is an absolutely amazing company for having made 3 winning games - as I play both HD & CoC and have spent maybe $50 between the 2 since last November I have gotten my money's worth for sure. Sure I haven't liked some things in the updates-but I'm still playing, and will probably continue to spend money on the games. I'd spend that much or more in a bar so I call it win win. Nice thread OP-and your right-real people work for this company.
Thanks Kendra, and thanks test and Lucas for your feedback. :) I wish people wouldn't be negative about the game, it's still good.
I understand supercell is a company that wants to make the most money but i feel like it will be mroe benficial for them to make updates that effect everyone and not just high level gemmers. If they have updates that are more than just a new high level upgrade the more people will join and more people will gem. Those updates may not have as much immdeiate gemming but overall will be better. I likemthe league idea but it just does not have a big enough impact to be useful.
This recent update benefited everybody. Playing for trophies used to be solely relegated to the very top players, but this league framework is a huge first step to making that kind of gameplay available to everyone, no matter where they are in the game. Many of the updates that did affect top players actually reduced their need for gems, so it's clearly not an attempt at a money grab. A league system encourages new players by giving them a leaderboard that's actually meaningful to them- some people really care about that kind of thing, and now that the framework is in place I'm sure SC will be perfecting the league into something that makes the game substantially more enjoyable for everybody.
Yo Bloberstoon and MisterV, you guys r awesome.
I can't see how could people would think that Supercell is taking an "greedy" aproach.
They are sacrificing the money they make for each player to balance the game (less gems to speed up spells, less gems for retraining cause of the 100k elixir).
The only thing I can see why people are kinda upset is that the league rewards are completely different from the ones they showed on San Francisco. There were even a guy who posted it on CoC fb.
I was excited for the leagues myself, I raised tophies for the first time on 3 months playing (I'm a farming th8). Shame that it wasn't worth it, but I got faith that maybe later they will fix some of the league bonus.
I'm happy with this update overall, reducing time for the mines/collectors to upgrade should make people do it, more resources in game, more good raids. The penality kinda sucks for TH9 and lower TH's, but for lower TH its already easy anyway.
Supercell should start selling 10ft iPad cables if they want to get greedy. I purchased one and it arrived today. It's my best clash of clans investment to date