We Need Clarification of What Can Go in Clan Description During War

I used to lurk here, and was following a thread in which several leaders and coleaders had their accounts suspended for harrassment of the other clan through the clan description during war.

I am not questioning the legitimacy of SuperCell's actions and fully support the measures taken. That said, I have combed the depths of this site and others and haven't come across any written policy which could give us guidance as to when we might want to edit out what some overzealous CoLeader has written in the clan description or face the possible consequence of suspension or the termination of our account.

So basically, I'd like to know or have some examples of what SuperCell looks for as to what crosses the line? What standards are there?

I would say no cussing and no making any racial remarks

Do you need a written policy on everything?

What happened to common sense?

Patrick

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Originally Posted by ClashySquill

I would say no cussing and no making any racial remarks

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Cussing is eliminated by the filters. So that's not really a concern. Racial remarks though? Let me illustrate why written rules would help.

If you were warring a Syrian clan and said in your clan description: "Greetings! We will make your bases look like Aleppo! Get out your gas masks! Here we come!" or to a clan with the name Cherokee in it "Get ready to be sent packing on the Trail of Tears!"

Other examples (of which I've seen from other clans) would include them doing sexual things to our mothers, beheading us, etc., do those run afoul?

While the above are obviously offensive and insensitive, if Supercell is potentially eliminating accounts, there should be some subjective guidelines so we can police ourselves. Otherwise, don't we run into situations where one clan could bait the other into saying something stupid, change their own description to something generic and then report the other clan?

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Originally Posted by pmhausen

Do you need a written policy on everything?

What happened to common sense?

Patrick

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Agreed. If you have to ask then you obviously shouldn't be trash talking the other team to begin with. For a clan that advertises adults only, you'd think this question would never have to be asked by you as you'd already know the response.

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Originally Posted by Terraist

Agreed. If you have to ask then you obviously shouldn't be trash talking the other team to begin with. For a clan that advertises adults only, you'd think this question would never have to be asked by you as you'd already know the response.

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Obviously? So I should just start winning wars by reporting the other clan for trash talking?

It's all banter. don't go too far, but light banter is never bad.

In my day job as a lawyer, I have to interpret statutes all of the time. Statutes are the rules we have to live by in society. If I opened up the statute book and it said "use common sense, dummy," what good would that be if I had been accused of violating the rules? How does someone know whether their behavior or someone else's behavior crosses the threshold of proriety?

This forum has rules and guidelines readily available to anyone who is curious. The same does not exist (to my knowledge) to the clan description. Or if it does exist, can someone post a link?

This thread is relevant to my interests. My clan regularly engages in wartime banter.

I wouldn't ever put anything in there that I wouldn't let my kids read, but I'd like to know I'm not going to get banned for it...

Read through their TOS: http://www.supercell.net/terms-of-service

The clans that were banned posted offensive clan descriptions and were reported. They also ban players for kicking whole clans and other offensive chat etc. It goes against the spirit of the game.

"Do not post any information which is . . . otherwise objectionable."

Nice clarification there in the TOS. I'll try and not post any information which is "otherwise objectionable." Does anyone else see the problem there? Under that definition, if I was to put in the clan description "Hey, clan x, sorry that the matchup system failed you this time. Prepare to be demolished." That might be "otherwise objectionable."

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Originally Posted by LegionOK

"Do not post any information which is . . . otherwise objectionable."

Nice clarification there in the TOS. I'll try and not post any information which is "otherwise objectionable." Does anyone else see the problem there? Under that definition, if I was to put in the clan description "Hey, clan x, sorry that the matchup system failed you this time. Prepare to be demolished." That might be "otherwise objectionable."

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That's right, so don't post it in your clan info if you don't want to be banned. It's pretty simple really but you seem to be struggling with the concept.

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Originally Posted by facescraper

That's right, so don't post it in your clan info if you don't want to be banned. It's pretty simple really but you seem to be struggling with the concept.

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I don't think you know what "otherwise objectionable" means.

I don't think anyone knows what that means.

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Originally Posted by LegionOK

I don't think you know what "otherwise objectionable" means.

I don't think anyone knows what that means.

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Did you read the link I posted? There's a lot more detailed info on the terms of service page.

"You agree that you will not, under any circumstances:

- Engage in any act that Supercell deems to be in conflict with the spirit or intent of the Service or make improper use of Supercell’s support services.

- Post any information that is abusive, threatening, obscene, defamatory, libelous, or racially, sexually, religiously, or otherwise objectionable or offensive."

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Originally Posted by facescraper

Did you read the link I posted? There's a lot more detailed info on the terms of service page.

"You agree that you will not, under any circumstances:

- Engage in any act that Supercell deems to be in conflict with the spirit or intent of the Service or make improper use of Supercell’s support services.

- Post any information that is abusive, threatening, obscene, defamatory, libelous, or racially, sexually, religiously, or otherwise objectionable or offensive."

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facescraper buddy... you are dealing with a lawyer so there is no win in this for any trying to argue a point as going through fine print and making up jargon as they go along comes with the territory. Too bad really as I'm not sure why the question really needs to be asked. Not sure why any clan feels the need to use trash talk that "may" get them banned.

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Originally Posted by Terraist

facescraper buddy... you are dealing with a lawyer so there is no win in this for any trying to argue a point as going through fine print and making up jargon as they go along comes with the territory.

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I find the above to be abusive and otherwise objectionable. Should I now report you for failure to follow the TOS? I'm sure attacking people's professions is not within the spirit and intent of Supercell's services.

So should you be banned? Or at least warned? Are there further guidelines, or does it just depend on which moderator responds when I report you?

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Too bad really as I'm not sure why the question really needs to be asked. Not sure why any clan feels the need to use trash talk that "may" get them banned.

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Or perhaps I'm interested for general informational purposes? Or perhaps another clan is being abusive in its description and should probably be reported? Why are you even commenting here? What does the reason I want the information have to do with the general good policy of having more detailed guidelines for players who don't want to be banned?

Just for the record, the clans that I know have been banned in the past have been reported beforehand. I know of two clans where all the Co's and Leader were banned as any of them could have been responsible for the clan info and in both cases the clan info was offensive towards others. SC don't have time to go through every clan in the game to see who's written something offensive but if you get reported they act upon it. If you're worried about what you can or can't say regarding another clan in your clan info it's probably best not to write anything at all. There's no need for it anyway to be perfectly honest...

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Originally Posted by LegionOK

I find the above to be abusive and otherwise objectionable. Should I now report you for failure to follow the TOS? I'm sure attacking people's professions is not within the spirit and intent of Supercell's services.

So should you be banned? Or at least warned? Are there further guidelines, or does it just depend on which moderator responds when I report you?



Or perhaps I'm interested for general informational purposes? Or perhaps another clan is being abusive in its description and should probably be reported? Why are you even commenting here? What does the reason I want the information have to do with the general good policy of having more detailed guidelines for players who don't want to be banned?

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As an attorney could it not be within reason to assume you could realize how hard it would be to clarify a subjective area like 'spirit of the game' when considering all the cultural diversities, ethnic mixes, etc betweeen and even within clans/clan members/players?

i.e. aren't you asking for a bit of an unrealistic request for clarity (thru SC's eyes) in terms of black and/or white when there could be millions of gray areas given the multitude of potential diversities of players' thoughts on what is 'offensive' or not and leave it to SC to determine the 'spirit' part woithout sweating it to a dotted 'i' or crossed 't'?

What if SC put it into black and/or white context (no racial intent BTW with that silly phrase being used) as you seem to want and then were sued for not including some group's potential ideas on offensive banter?


I could potentially understand as an attorney you may want a black or white answer to a subjective and gray area but would hope some view of SC's potential position would help clarify how tough your particular request might be.

IMO only and hopefully it falls back to a bit of 'common sense' at least in the eyes of SC's position with the spirit of the game and game play.

Good luck and happy raiding (and/or warring) to all of us.:cool:

PS and also personal opinion but thought your response to terraist could be viewed as potentially a bit threatening (veiled or not, I have no idea and little care) and that is purely opinion from me. Good luck we all gotta work on being happy and enjoying this! It is a game after all. Have a good one.

Oh, and Go Seahawks (hope that doesn't offend anyone but if it does it is unintended, honest)! :P

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Originally Posted by littlefish

As an attorney could it not be within reason to assume you could realize how hard it would be to clarify a subjective area like 'spirit of the game' when considering all the cultural diversities, ethnic mixes, etc betweeen and even within clans/clan members/players?

i.e. aren't you asking for a bit of an unrealistic request for clarity (thru SC's eyes) in terms of black and/or white when there could be millions of gray areas given the multitude of potential diversities of players' thoughts on what is 'offensive' or not and leave it to SC to determine the 'spirit' part woithout sweating it to a dotted 'i' or crossed 't'?

What if SC put it into black and/or white context (no racial intent BTW with that silly phrase being used) as you seem to want and then were sued for not including some group's potential ideas on offensive banter?

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Nothing against SC personnel, but typically online gaming companies aren't paying top dollar to content moderators for online games, so.. and I could be totally wrong here.. but I doubt many of those individuals have the cultural competency to deal with those sorts of issues and so much has to do with the alleged offender's intent.

If you followed the Oklahoma-State vs. Florida State game last weekend, you'd have seen that some well-meaning OSU fan made a big 'ol sign saying something stupid and #TrailofTears, which if you don't know was basically part of the genocide of the Native Americans in their forced relocation from their land in the Southeast to the Oklahoma Territory. The kids thought it was legitimate fan banter and it turned into a national headline.

Do I expect SuperCell to pay folks to know what the Trail of Tears is, why it's offensive or the vast other number of things which can be foudn to be offensive? No. Does that raise even more question marks? Yes.

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I could potentially understand as an attorney you may want a black or white answer to a subjective and gray area but would hope some view of SC's potential position would help clarify how tough your particular request might be.

IMO only and hopefully it falls back to a bit of 'common sense' at least in the eyes of SC's position with the spirit of the game and game play.

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Again, that's too vague a term. "The spirit"? What is that? How about this? We have this thing called war. War in real life is using every possible tool to beat your opponent. That would include potential spying, i.e., getting one of your members to join the other clan, take screenshots of all of their bases and post 'em in your clan's Facebook. On the one hand, war is hell, spirit of the game, Nobel Prize. On the other hand, "that's ♥♥♥♥♥ing," spirit of the game, banning of accounts. Which is right? No idea. We need clarification on these things. I was not even aware SuperCell was policing content to this degree and if they are, the community needs fair notice of exactly what is allowed.

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PS and also personal opinion but thought your response to terraist could be viewed as potentially a bit threatening (veiled or not, I have no idea and little care) and that is purely opinion from me. Good luck we all gotta work on being happy and enjoying this! It is a game after all. Have a good one.

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Meh.. it was more an ironic illustration of how vague the TOS are. They look like they were cut and pasted from some other internet forum to apply here, and that's probably the case.

All rules and regulations that common folks deal with everyday are like that. Some objective examples and then a catch-all "or anything else we deem to be so".

Whatever is offensive in global chat, is offensive in clan description. There won't be any clarification. Sure people can report each other if they think the other party is offensive. Then SC makes the decision (trial by judge, not jury) using "their own common sense".

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Originally Posted by ssiu

All rules and regulations that common folks deal with everyday are like that. Some objective examples and then a catch-all "or anything else we deem to be so".

Whatever is offensive in global chat, is offensive in clan description. There won't be any clarification. Sure people can report each other if they think the other party is offensive. Then SC makes the decision (trial by judge, not jury) using "their own common sense".

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In the U.S., if there was a criminal law so vaguely worded, it would be void.

my clan has been actively communicating to the other team in wars via clan descript...

our motto is, trash talk is fine, but no censored word as in no censor bypass... it all works out... and often encourages the enemy clan to throw some jabs.... really fun...

however there is a line, u can't say outlandish stuff, jus respect w/e words sc censors, and dont try and be racist, or discrimatory...

like callin an arab clan certain things, may not be censored... but know if u call em those words, u can get banned..

my clan prefers more like " x clan your going down. - simple and effective.
" x clan your bad and should feel bad" - look at that a clean insult.

I think the safest thing is to not use your clan description to address your opponent at all. Just leave there a good description of your clan and what its all about.

Then use your attack troops to make your statement. For example if to start the war you go over and three star their top guy that can be translated to mean "Hello"

I agree that should some kinda of guideline on this. I have met a fair share of trash talking clans and sometimes there are words exchanged from clan description. We have clans calling us noob/losers/no lifes etc... While to me those are really light and weak insults but people who can be offended by it. So are those insults ban-worthy?

Also I think it is not fair to ban all leader and co-leaders just because of 1 offensive message.

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Originally Posted by LegionOK

Nice clarification there in the TOS. I'll try and not post any information which is "otherwise objectionable." Does anyone else see the problem there?

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Nope. I can certainly work within the guidelines. If you have to ask if what you're thinking of posting in your clan description is out of line, I'm guessing it is. Clan descriptions are for describing your clan - not for posting petty comments about your opponents. If you do and they take offense, I think you'll probably get a temporary ban no matter how cleverly worded you make your insults.

I don't see anything wrong with a bit of trash talking but... We don't always know who our opponent is. Maybe it is a clan with a bunch of kids. Maybe it is a clan that comes from a different cultural background and their tolerance for trash talking is different that yours. Who's culture are we judging "otherwise offensive" from, because like it or not, this differs widely depending on where you are in the world. So does common sense. Sure, if you are an American clan firghting another adult American clan, you should be able to use common sense and keep it light and clean. But that is rarely the case, we get clans from all over the world in clan wars. I wouldn't want to give what I perceive as a light jab only to find out later I actually said something that heavily offended everyone in the clan. I would feel pretty bad because that wasnt my intent.

Just leave the clan description as a clan description.talking ♥♥♥♥ isn't that important.

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Originally Posted by SharkyFinn

Nope. I can certainly work within the guidelines. If you have to ask if what you're thinking of posting in your clan description is out of line, I'm guessing it is. Clan descriptions are for describing your clan - not for posting petty comments about your opponents. If you do and they take offense, I think you'll probably get a temporary ban no matter how cleverly worded you make your insults.

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Ah.. so you would say that any clan description not describing your clan should be reportable and bannable? And your expertise here is....?

I agree with the OP that it would be great to have a true list of objective criteria. We used to talk some pretty serious trash via desc when we would get matched with hardcore ghosters, and then when I heard about the banning incidents I got worried.

However this whole issue is moot. It makes SC's job much easier if they can just dole out punishment as they see fit, rather than trying to fit all of their actions into detailed pre-determined rules and laws. So why would they set forth specific rules that would only cause them a headache? They are judge, jury, and executioner... And who wants to be a judge and jury when you can just be executioner?? Much simpler that way.

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Originally Posted by rwelshjr

I think the safest thing is to not use your clan description to address your opponent at all. Just leave there a good description of your clan and what its all about.

Then use your attack troops to make your statement. For example if to start the war you go over and three star their top guy that can be translated to mean "Hello"

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Personally I think your idea is the best one. Especially the second part :P

Years ago we used to use something called common sense, it worked well as most people possesed this attribute.

Nowadays there appears to have been a complete decline in common sense and lots of people want everything to be defined and are unable/unwilling to think for themselves. I worry that the less that people are allowed to use the skill of common sense the more it will diminish.

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Originally Posted by LegionOK

"Do not post any information which is . . . otherwise objectionable."

Nice clarification there in the TOS. I'll try and not post any information which is "otherwise objectionable." Does anyone else see the problem there? Under that definition, if I was to put in the clan description "Hey, clan x, sorry that the matchup system failed you this time. Prepare to be demolished." That might be "otherwise objectionable."

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Surely if you're a lawyer you must come across vague provisions all the time, or perhaps have to determine what is "reasonable".

SC's TOS would have been drafted by their lawyers to give them maximum protection/scope for action.

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Originally Posted by Kirky

Surely if you're a lawyer you must come across vague provisions all the time, or perhaps have to determine what is "reasonable".

SC's TOS would have been drafted by their lawyers to give them maximum protection/scope for action.

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They're already covered. The Communication Decency Act states that where user generated content is concerned, the hosting service is not the publisher and therefore cannot be held liable. This has been upheld in case law and actually was the case law prior to the CDA. Of course, that's just in the United States and this is a very international game, but what assets do they have outside the United States to sue for? I'm guessing none.

One of my longtime clients is a software company and the fact is that where TOSes are concerned, they're all pretty much the same. Someone probably wrote a TOS back in 1991 or so and as lawyers do, if we find something good, we steal it and use it for our own clients. The SC TOS looks pretty similar, if not exactly the same to many others I've seen. Whether they are actually enforceable at all is an interesting question.

Here's my issue--many of us have spent actual money on this thing. Vague provisions like this tend to make me very wary that SC could arbitrarily confiscate what I've paid for. What we are talking about is SC having almost a quasi-quasi-quasi-criminal system in that they are the police, judge, jury and executioner and there are no rules, really. That is a little concerning. I mean there are some, but these catch all provisions in the TOS do not help me to understand what is going on there.

When you drive your car on the road, there are statutes and regulations which govern your use of your car on the road. When you build a factory, there are OSHA and EPA and other regulatory rules that you have to comply with. These are all known rules and we can just elect to follow them. Would you prefer the motor vehicle statutes say "use your common sense"?

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Originally Posted by VincentVegas

Years ago we used to use something called common sense, it worked well as most people possesed this attribute.

Nowadays there appears to have been a complete decline in common sense and lots of people want everything to be defined and are unable/unwilling to think for themselves. I worry that the less that people are allowed to use the skill of common sense the more it will diminish.

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So says every generation about the one which precedes them. A great man once said "Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents and everyone is writing a book." That man was Cicero and he said that around 30 B.C.E. I guess we've been in decline ever since?

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Originally Posted by LegionOK

They're already covered. The Communication Decency Act states that where user generated content is concerned, the hosting service is not the publisher and therefore cannot be held liable. This has been upheld in case law and actually was the case law prior to the CDA. Of course, that's just in the United States and this is a very international game, but what assets do they have outside the United States to sue for? I'm guessing none.

One of my longtime clients is a software company and the fact is that where TOSes are concerned, they're all pretty much the same. Someone probably wrote a TOS back in 1991 or so and as lawyers do, if we find something good, we steal it and use it for our own clients. The SC TOS looks pretty similar, if not exactly the same to many others I've seen. Whether they are actually enforceable at all is an interesting question.

Here's my issue--many of us have spent actual money on this thing. Vague provisions like this tend to make me very wary that SC could arbitrarily confiscate what I've paid for. What we are talking about is SC having almost a quasi-quasi-quasi-criminal system in that they are the police, judge, jury and executioner and there are no rules, really. That is a little concerning. I mean there are some, but these catch all provisions in the TOS do not help me to understand what is going on there.

When you drive your car on the road, there are statutes and regulations which govern your use of your car on the road. When you build a factory, there are OSHA and EPA and other regulatory rules that you have to comply with. These are all known rules and we can just elect to follow them. Would you prefer the motor vehicle statutes say "use your common sense"?

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Ummm i thought supercell wasn't a US company? pretty sure they're Finnish (citation needed). So i'm guessing they have many assets outside the USA ahahaha.

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Originally Posted by THEBANDIT240

Ummm i thought supercell wasn't a US company? pretty sure they're Finnish (citation needed). So i'm guessing they have many assets outside the USA ahahaha.

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Didn't know that, but more than likely, Finnish law is similar. And to be fair, they're now owned 51% by Japanese companies.

I can't imagine under EU or Finnish law that a non-publisher could be held accountable for user generated content. I mean, if someone was to spray paint a swastika on a storefront window, [not protected speech in the EU] could the shopkeeper be held liable?

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Originally Posted by LegionOK

One of my longtime clients is a software company and the fact is that where TOSes are concerned, they're all pretty much the same. Someone probably wrote a TOS back in 1991 or so and as lawyers do, if we find something good, we steal it and use it for our own clients. The SC TOS looks pretty similar, if not exactly the same to many others I've seen. Whether they are actually enforceable at all is an interesting question.

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OK, so now I'm confused. You start by asking for guidance on what can/can't be included in a clan description without looking at the terms you sign up to. Once you've seen the terms you try to make an issue of the fact a term is not well defined. Now you seem to have a long term client who is a software customer with similar terms of service.

Surely as a lawyer with experience in the software industry with a question about how you can be banned, you would first look to the TOS, realise its the same as you've seen before and then have the skills and experience to understand what that means legally.

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Originally Posted by LegionOK

Here's my issue--many of us have spent actual money on this thing. Vague provisions like this tend to make me very wary that SC could arbitrarily confiscate what I've paid for. What we are talking about is SC having almost a quasi-quasi-quasi-criminal system in that they are the police, judge, jury and executioner and there are no rules, really. That is a little concerning. I mean there are some, but these catch all provisions in the TOS do not help me to understand what is going on there.

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Very true they are judge, jury and executioner, unless you want too take a case on it. Maybe you should just keep your clan description friendly so you don't get caught.

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Originally Posted by LegionOK

When you drive your car on the road, there are statutes and regulations which govern your use of your car on the road. When you build a factory, there are OSHA and EPA and other regulatory rules that you have to comply with. These are all known rules and we can just elect to follow them. Would you prefer the motor vehicle statutes say "use your common sense"?

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I don't live in the US, so I'm not familiar with the specific statutes. The statute I am familiar with has specific rules, but still requires some interpretation. That's why we have courts as you know. Sometimes the interpretation requires complex analysis, sometimes it reverts to little more than common sense.

Here the rule is that you can't include something that is otherwise objectionable in your clan description. This needs to be interpreted. I don't see why common sense is such a bad route here.

But, we are not talking about statute here, we are talking about a terms of service that you are free to accept or decline. If you don't like the terms, you don't have to accept them.

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Originally Posted by Kirky

Once you've seen the terms you try to make an issue of the fact a term is not well defined. Now you seem to have a long term client who is a software customer with similar terms of service.

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Well, my client isn't a game company and doesn't have to deal with user generated content. I'm just saying that most TOS don't have a lot of thought put into them and tend to be boilerplate. I am pointing out that this language leaves much to be interpreted.

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Surely as a lawyer with experience in the software industry with a question about how you can be banned, you would first look to the TOS, realise its the same as you've seen before and then have the skills and experience to understand what that means legally.

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Legally, it tells me a few specific things which are not permitted, but then says.. well.. you can be banned for well.. anything. No one's skill or experience is going to tell me how that clause will be interpreted. Someone needs to tell us what it means.

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Very true they are judge, jury and executioner, unless you want too take a case on it. Maybe you should just keep your clan description friendly so you don't get caught.

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I'm not just worried about my clan. It's a community standards issue. What is acceptable, what is not? What should I report, what should I ignore?

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Here the rule is that you can't include something that is otherwise objectionable in your clan description. This needs to be interpreted. I don't see why common sense is such a bad route here.

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Common sense tells me nothing. Might a TH6 person find a clan which says in their description "TH9 and up only" discriminatory and therefore "otherwise objectionable"? Maybe.

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But, we are not talking about statute here, we are talking about a terms of service that you are free to accept or decline. If you don't like the terms, you don't have to accept them.

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Obviously, I accepted them a long time ago. That still doesn't mean that an explanation as to what they mean might be helpful to me and the community at large.

I'll ask you the same thing I asked the other gentleman who was objecting to my line of inquiry. Why are you apparently opposed to having more information regarding what conduct is permissible?

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Originally Posted by LegionOK

f you were warring a Syrian clan and said in your clan description: "Greetings! We will make your bases look like Aleppo! Get out your gas masks! Here we come!" or to a clan with the name Cherokee in it "Get ready to be sent packing on the Trail of Tears!"

Other examples (of which I've seen from other clans) would include them doing sexual things to our mothers, beheading us, etc., do those run afoul?

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You honestly don't know whether the examples you've cited above cross the line?

Please.

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Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood

You honestly don't know whether the examples you've cited above cross the line?

Please.

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Maybe I do, but what of the community at large? I'll bet less than 1% of CoC players read these forums which means probably fewer than that number are aware that SC is even policing clan descriptions. I'm a long-time, pretty well informed player and I wasn't aware of that.

That being the case, I suppose reporting someone with an inappropriate message a might be an acceptable war tactic then.. It's pretty easy to win a war when you get the co leaders and leader suspended for the war, right?

Considering the fact that global is basically the sewer of the internet and it requires an act of God for anyone to face consequences there for their behavior, most wouldn't even think there would be an outside chance that there is an opportunity to have their accounts suspended or banned based on what they put in the clan description and at the very least, there could be some iron clad guidelines as to what would be appropriate or not.

interesting topic guys but we have a bigger issue that is affecting every clan that has a mixture of th10-8 and that issue is called matchmaking system. clan description are optional so a clan choose to have no description or entry requirements as their description .trash talking isn't for the public

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Originally Posted by LegionOK

In my day job as a lawyer

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Here is your problem...lawyer's are used to loop holes and studying written stuff to find ways out or get what they want by manipulating the wording of things. You guys ruin everything! Common sense is common sense...just imagine what your Mom would say with your clan description...

examples....

ok to taunt your enemy in clan war:

• "We are gonna blow you away! Bring it on!"
• "43 wars won? prepare to end your winning streak!"

NOT ok:

• "You MF idiots suck. " (cussing abbreviated)
• "insert racial slur here."

How hard is it to just keep it friendly and polite while being competitive??

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Originally Posted by TheRealNick

Here is your problem...lawyer's are used to loop holes and studying written stuff to find ways out or get what they want by manipulating the wording of things. You guys ruin everything! Common sense is common sense...just imagine what your Mom would say with your clan description...

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Y'know.. or it might be that we understand that words matter, syntax matters, everything matters when you enter into an agreement. I don't see how we "ruin everything." I'm not sure what it is you do for a living, but imagine if you were signing an employment agreement with a morality clause laying out firing grounds for doing anything "morally objectionable." You'd be nuts to sign that and the company would be nuts to have that contract because it would almost definitely land them in court. Just stop making blanket negative statements about a profession you probably don't know very much about. It's "abusive" and "otherwise objectionable [and] offensive." (TOS)

And again, Nick, you don't speak for SC, do you? Please quit telling me what the situation is when you don't know. Your arrogance does not make up for your lack of information.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kristinepixie

examples....

ok to taunt your enemy in clan war:

• "We are gonna blow you away! Bring it on!"
• "43 wars won? prepare to end your winning streak!"

NOT ok:

• "You MF idiots suck. " (cussing abbreviated)
• "insert racial slur here."

How hard is it to just keep it friendly and polite while being competitive??

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Again, I'm not sure you speak for SuperCell here. Is what you say somehow official?

If not, you're telling me what you think the TOS says. I value your opinion, but your opinion isn't fact.

And my example above "Dear Syrian Clan: Get out your gas masks! We're going to make your THs look like Aleppo!" Is that funny, topical humor or is it offensive? Maybe a Syrian who knows Aleppo kind of looks like one of these whiners here complaining about bad matchups looks like after the war day and would appreciate that we bother to recognize they're having a rather bad go of it over there.. or it could be offensive. I don't expect the average CoC player to know the difference. If yo think otherwise, spend some time in English global. That'll open your eyes for sure.

To add, we have a clan posting in this forum right now some great Youtube videos about a war their clan was in. Their clan name is "bluemeth." While I understand the reference, I've dealt with a lot of the victims of meth addiction in my job and it really is nothing to be joked about. And if you want to start talking about all the clan names referencing marijuana... well.. that's a lot of clans and usernames. So I appreciate that there's a TOS, but it is not very helpful when it has catch all language like "otherwise objectionable or offensive" because those things, are by their nature, entirely subjective.

If a member of the other clan thinks what you have written is offensive and reports it, the leader and co-leaders are banned. The smart thing is to not talk smack.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dave5872

If a member of the other clan thinks what you have written is offensive and reports it, the leader and co-leaders are banned. The smart thing is to not talk smack.

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And where does this information come from?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LegionOK

And where does this information come from?

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TOS quote
- Post any information that is abusive, threatening, obscene, defamatory, libelous, or racially, sexually, religiously, or otherwise objectionable or offensive."

This has interested me because we have just been in a war where the opposition's clan description was mostly talking about genitals... we won the war and nobody in clan was offended.

I suppose that if we had reported them then appropriate action would have taken place.

From previous experience, people who have posted objectionable or offensive clan descriptions and also been reported for it have been treated on a case by case basis. I know of leaders and co's being suspended and I also know of whole clans being suspended/banned for a week.

I do think that there is a thin line between what can be deemed 'objectionable or offensive' as both of those terms are completely subjective.

I also think that it is fine that the rules regarding the clan descriptions are vague. In my non-sc, unofficial opinion - if you post something that could be offensive AND get reported, then you will and should be banned.

I have very much enjoyed your thread :)

So if you find yourself in that position, why not just report the other clan, have them suspended and attack their bases for easy money? Seems like now we'd be involving SuperCell staff in dealing with potentially offensive conduct and doing so not because we are offended, but because we want to win.

Without guidelines being somewhere everyone knows about, how is the aforementioned genital-mentioning clan really on notice? When was the last time you really read the TOS for an online game?

It reminds me of the opening pages of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy when the wrecking crew shows up to destroy Earth to make way for an interstellar highway. The notice, of course, had been posted in clear public display in nearby Alpha Centari.

You're still going? A lot of your responses border on trolling, trying to evoke anger out of others here. Any reasonable replies get overlooked and instead you choose to plead ignorance in terms of what is or isn't acceptable in the clan info. The clan info is supposed to be that. Clan info. If you choose to aggravate another clan using your clan info that's your decision but you may be temp banned for it. It's their game they can do what they want and choose what they deem to be offensive. If you don't like it play something else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LegionOK

So if you find yourself in that position, why not just report the other clan, have them suspended and attack their bases for easy money? Seems like now we'd be involving SuperCell staff in dealing with potentially offensive conduct and doing so not because we are offended, but because we want to win.

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That didn't even cross our minds. We are disappointed when the war isn't a close fight let alone a free steamroll. Although this is a tactic that may have been able to be employed it goes against our own ethics. This would be reporting something as offensive not because we are offended but because we want a free base.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LegionOK

Without guidelines being somewhere everyone knows about, how is the aforementioned genital-mentioning clan really on notice? When was the last time you really read the TOS for an online game?

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I wrote genitals because I cannot write here what they wrote. Even though what they put did not offend any of us - it definitely could have been deemed offensive. Even if you have not read the TOS, if you are banned for using profanity in your clan description then I don't think you have very much room for complaint.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LegionOK

It reminds me of the opening pages of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy when the wrecking crew shows up to destroy Earth to make way for an interstellar highway. The notice, of course, had been posted in clear public display in nearby Alpha Centari.

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While I can see the comparison xD....
The wrecking crew is SC, destroying the earth is banning you for a day/week and the notice is posted in your game under settings.

To summarise, I do know what you are getting at... Just what is and isn't acceptable?

However, I don't think that this issue needs to be addressed. If you write something remotely offensive in your clan description then you leave yourself open for punishment without warrant for complaint.

What is the point of your question...

1. Either you want to post messages that are as offensive as possible without getting you banned

or you want to

2. Rat out other clans and ensure they get banned so you have a easy war...


Either option is weak sauce...just take the high road and don't have a clan description that is offensive and just ignore clan description that are and crush them in the war....

Or you just want to understand it more (most likely)...but I do not think SC will answer this, they like it vague and have no reason to make it more specific so people can pick it apart and find loopholes...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheRealNick

What is the point of your question...

1. Either you want to post messages that are as offensive as possible without getting you banned

or you want to

2. Rat out other clans and ensure they get banned so you have a easy war...


Either option is weak sauce...just take the high road and don't have a clan description that is offensive and just ignore clan description that are and crush them in the war....

Or you just want to understand it more (most likely)...but I do not think SC will answer this, they like it vague and have no reason to make it more specific so people can pick it apart and find loopholes...

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What an elaborate refinement of my question about "common sense". :)

Thanks
Patrick

I do see where the OP is going with this question. I get it. You want it clear cut perfectly written out and defined. And thats ok. even acceptable... But you also seem to want it in "lawyer speak." Which to be totally honest... Lawyer speak is what has gotten our world into the whiney "PC" idiocy we are dealing with these days.

The only option that will be acceptable going by what i have read of the OP and his/her replies thus far: is if the clan description is ONLY about the clan. And if they change it to poke, prod, make fun of, or taunt the other clan it would be punishable by banning.

But thats not acceptable either, because in the spirit of fun it is nice to be able to tease the other guys and tell them to "bring it on."

The best way to make someone mad, start an arguement or cause drama: is to state your opinion.

By putting a comment targeting the opposite clan into your description, you are stating an opinion... and someone, somewhere, somehow is going to take it personal and report you.

As keep getting stated over, and over and over and over (and over) again.... Use common sense in your teasing and taunting of the enemy clan. otherwise shut the heck up and play the game.

This thread is a great example of why there are so many jokes about lawyers.

Just use common sense! If you think that something is borderline unacceptable, don't post it!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by T0M

If you write something remotely offensive in your clan description then you leave yourself open for punishment without warrant for complaint.

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Maybe you do, maybe you don't. I can't tell from the TOS.

[QUOTE=kristinepixie;2701070]I do see where the OP is going with this question. I get it. You want it clear cut perfectly written out and defined. And thats ok. even acceptable... But you also seem to want it in "lawyer speak." Which to be totally honest... Lawyer speak is what has gotten our world into the whiney "PC" idiocy we are dealing with these days.

I don't need it in lawyer speak. I'm just looking for some guidlines as to what is and isn't unacceptable. We all know the stuff people are saying in their clan descriptions and if SC is only going to do something for maybe 1:10,000, first, word is not necessarily going to get around that the conduct is even regulated. 2nd, any kind of punishment would be completely arbitrary.

Having a community like this is really no different than running a clan. You need to have acceptable community standards and be consistent in the way you deal with issues.

Quote:

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The only option that will be acceptable going by what i have read of the OP and his/her replies thus far: is if the clan description is ONLY about the clan. And if they change it to poke, prod, make fun of, or taunt the other clan it would be punishable by banning.

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And that is written nowhere at all. There is nothing that says that literally you cannot tease or taunt the other clan or do anything but describe your clan.

This thread is turning into a full blown facewall. It's really not that hard.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood

Just use common sense! If you think that something is borderline unacceptable, don't post it!

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^^^^ This guy summed it up perfectly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LegionOK

Maybe you do, maybe you don't. I can't tell from the TOS.

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Having a clear list of what can not be done would open the dolr to ridicule the other clan by any words not listed previously. For example SC could bad calling the other clan monkeys, but people would then just call them donkeys. If donkeys were added to the list of banned expressions we would still have nice groups of animals to call the other clan. Hence the only practical way of doing it is to forbid bad behaviour. What counts as bad behaviour? It varies but in the end SC will make a judgement call case by case.

Come on guys, let's be sensible here.
If you post something rude, you know you're doing it.

So just don't do it. Clan description is for describing your clan. Stick to that, and you can't go wrong.

if you see a clan description you think violates the TOS, please take a screenshot and report it to SC through your game settings.