Clan wars - Allegiance and Empire

Well here is an idea I had to push the clan wars logic a bit further that would help having more clans fighting the clan wars, because many clans don't participate either because the loot is not good enough or because, it takes time over their farming time.

When a clan defeats another clan in the clan wars, the logic would be that the loser would surrender to the winner.

The defeated clan should then swear allegiance to the conqueror.

Let's now say, your clan wins a war, then you have gained control over another clan, starting to build your empire.

The clan under your control, should give a contribution to your clan. A certain amount of loot, due every end of each season. Of course, this loot wouldn't have to be paid literaly by the loser clan, because that would prevent the clan to go to war. But the loot would be calculated automatically in functions of the clan size and at the moment of the war. For instance winning a war against a clan with 50 players, would bring more loot than a war versus a smaller clan. The loot should be divided between the winning players in function of the stars they won for the clan. The reward would then depend on the quality of the player, ie, its contribution in winning a war.

Every war won would increase the number of clans under control and the total loot received at the end of the season.

This would push every clan to battle so they could actually increase the wealth of their own clan, not just in a war but in a more permanent way, the duration of an imperial period, say 4 or 6 regular seasons.

A clan which is undefeated will proudly have its own banner on the castle clan, when a losing clan should then wear the color of its victor.

Let's introduce the notion of empire: let's now say clan A beats clan B. Clan B should now be renamed "clan B part of the A Empire".

Like in the online battles where you can actualy take revenge on somebody that attacked you, the possibility should be the same for the whole clan, so they could regain their freedom and dignity.

So once every 2 seasons, the clan B should be able to take revenge on the clan A to regain its freedom and start an empire on its own. If it cant be done, the clan B will have to endure to be part of of the A Empire 2 more seasons.

If, while under the control of the A Empire, the clan B happen to beat the clan C in a war, the clan C would automaticaly become part of the A Empire, as well as the B sub-Empire (the ruler of my ruler is my supreme ruler). Increasing the size of the A Empire and the B sub-Empire. If the clan B loses to the clan C, then it wouldnt be part of the A Empire anymore, having been colonized by clan C, ie, becoming part of the C Empire.

If clan C happens to be part of the D Empire, the clan B would then pass from the A Empire to the D empire and the C sub-Empire.

This would bring a new aspect to the game by trying to dominate the biggest empire possible during the imperial period, and gaining more loot from the clan wars.

A clan that disbands, would automaticaly be withdrawn from its current empire.

I believe we could then have a new way for every clan to try to dominate not only one opponent clan, but the whole game.

I hope my idea was clearly explained, and I 'm willing to discuss the pros ans cons with anybody willing to bring an argument!

Till then.... CLASH ON!!

Ahouuu ahouuuu!! Come in my empire!!!

Interesting idea but I can see 2 major flaws. First up we cannot un-choose a mismatched war opponent so this will discourage involvement at the risk of being mismatched. Based on the number of threads on this topic it seems the issue of mismatches has not been resolved. Secondly, what if A beats B, B beats C and C beats A? Is B now part of the C empire despite beating them?

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Originally Posted by Ferg

Interesting idea but I can see 2 major flaws. First up we cannot un-choose a mismatched war opponent so this will discourage involvement at the risk of being mismatched. Secondly, what if A beats B, B beats C and C beats A?

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Basically the mismatch wont be worst than it is actualy. And it's been better since they correct it.

If A beats B then B becomes part of the A empire
Then B beats C: B and C are part of the A empire
Then C beats A: C gained its freedom and can start a new empire on its own. B is still part of the A empire.


It's gonna be the choice of the clan to go against their ruler or not...they can also choose to be part of an empire and try to expand it.

Sorry I edited my post to try and clarify. Given the sheer number of clans, it is unlikely a clan can ever free itself. Mismatches are still a major problem so until that is resolved this would be unpalatable to most, unless there was a smaller time period, eg a 2 week seasons at which time everything starts again from scratch. I would prefer that a losing clan is still able to build its own empire so you have empires within empires.

Per the unlikely example I gave, B should also be free given it beat C which beat A.

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Originally Posted by booshiboosh

Basically the mismatch wont be worst than it is actualy. And it's been better since they correct it.

If A beats B then B becomes part of the A empire
Then B beats C: B and C are part of the A empire
Then C beats A: C gained its freedom and can start a new empire on its own.


It's gonna be the choice of the clan to go against their ruler or not...they can also choose to be part of an empire and try to expand it.

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As i explained, a clan will have opportunity to regain its freedom by doing a revenge against its current ruler. This opportunity should arise every 4 seasons, so we have time to actually make several wars and expand an empire.

In that case, let's say some player left one of the clan and the clans are let's say 40 in the A empire and 20 in the C vassal clan....then it's gonna be a war 20 vs 20...so the vassal clan has a fair chance to leave if it is its will. The 20 playerspicked from the biggest clan being the more matched players to the clan with less players.
So it wouldn't be always the same players defending their conquests.

But yeah, I said 4 seasons...it could be shorter indeed...

Understood, however this comes back to my point about mismatches : if a clan loses due to a mismatch then no number of revenges over any time period will see that clan able to free itself. So I'm not sure the revenge is as useful as you think. Hence my suggestion of empires within empires to address this issue; should losing clans still be able to build their own sub-empire? Furthermore, in building an empire, if we beat a clan that loses to another, it doesn't seem right that they would then disappear from my empire. An alternative solution is that a clan remains under your empire for the remainder of the 'empire period' (a season?) unless they earned their freedom by winning 3 (consecutive?) clan wars. In my opinion, an empire cannot take a clan from another empire, they should only be able to gain clans that are currently not in an empire. But I like the idea of gaining loot from your empire, I am not sure about the mechanics from a practical perspective.

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Originally Posted by booshiboosh

As i explained, a clan will have opportunity to regain its freedom by doing a revenge against its current ruler. This opportunity should arise every 4 seasons, so we have time to actually make several wars and expand an empire.

In that case, let's say some player left one of the clan and the clans are let's say 40 in the A empire and 20 in the C vassal clan....then it's gonna be a war 20 vs 20...so the vassal clan has a fair chance to leave if it is its will.

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The mechanics in establishing an empire as you describe it is interesting too. But then your question about A beating B beating C beating A....how do you resolve it?

And i liked the idea of putting my flag on the conquered clan :)

So what would be the flag on the clan castle of a sub empire, the supreme ruler? Or the sub ruler?

As for the loot: my idea was that the clan wars and loot, should be the same as before. It would be an extra loot, given at the end of each season, that would be obviously smaller, given the exponential profit that you could gain.

If the loot by conquest is around 10'000 elix and gold (maybe 50 dark elexir?)...if you multiply that by let's say 10 vassals, it starts already to be interesting. If you manage to conquer more, you could even gain the equivalent of a day of heavy farming.


And in my opinion, we should be able to steal clans from another empire...the ultimate goal being to become the biggest empire of clash of clan...and you can't achieve that if you dont steal vassals from others.

In the logic I described, it would be more interesting to be able to acquire powerful clans in an empire, so that those clans could win other clans in the empire. If you aquire a bad clan due to mismatch, then you gonna lose it quickly to another empire. Wouldn't that re-establish the balance?

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Originally Posted by booshiboosh

Basically the mismatch wont be worst than it is actualy. And it's been better since they correct it.

If A beats B then B becomes part of the A empire
Then B beats C: B and C are part of the A empire
Then C beats A: C gained its freedom and can start a new empire on its own. B is still part of the A empire.


It's gonna be the choice of the clan to go against their ruler or not...they can also choose to be part of an empire and try to expand it.

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K I like this idea but if c beats a then all under A's rule should now become c, or freed because then there is no more empire if the head of the empire is no longer, Also do a week to two week season and give clans the option to stay part of the empire or, go out on there own again! If they go out on there own then they get to redo their clan name! Also there should be a way for leaders and co leader to chat with the new conquered clan! But with a mute button In case of abusive language!

Scenario:
A beats B; B is part of A empire.
A beats C; C is part of A empire.
B beats D; is D a sub-part of A, or part of B empire, or both?
D beats A; what now?

I can see these options:
1) B owns D, which owns A, which owns C
2) D owns A, which owns C, but B is now free
3) D owns A, which owns B and C
4) A owns B and C but D is now free
[edit] 5) A owns B but C and D are now free [end edit]

Thoughts? I don't like any of these options, they all have flaws.

Understood re exponential growth hence the appeal. Vassals building sub clans allows the head clan to grow. I don't see the flags changing but I see a vassal would show their immediate empire's details and those of the ultimate empire. So growth comes from beating free clans, and beating other empires. I don't like the idea of losing vassals....just my opinion. :)

And to integrate your idea to restart from scratch after a determined period, yes indeed, SC could decide a period of time, 3 to 6 seasons, where clans start from scratch to build the biggest empire. So the loot would increase regularly. And after this period, every clans could start from scratch over again, being freed from their ruler again.

But keeping somewhere in the clan description, like the number of war won, the highest number of clan conquered in an Imperial period.

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Originally Posted by Ferg

Scenario:
A beats B; B is part of A empire.
A beats C; C is part of A empire.
B beats D; is D a sub-part of A, or part of B empire, or both?
D beats A; what now?

I can see these options:
1) B owns D, which owns A, which owns C
2) D owns A, which owns C, but B is now free
3) D owns A, which owns B and C
4) A owns B and C but D is now free
[edit] 5) A owns B but C and D are now free [end edit]

Thoughts? I don't like any of these options, they all have flaws.

Understood re exponential growth hence the appeal. Vassals building sub clans allows the head clan to grow. I don't see the flags changing but I see a vassal would show their immediate empire's details and those of the ultimate empire. So growth comes from beating free clans, and beating other empires. I don't like the idea of losing vassals....just my opinion. :)

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The way it is up top it seems that if A beats B who beats C then A owns all the clans that were beaten under their flag! So if C beats D, they too become A!

My deal is if A owns B C D, and gets beaten by E, then either ABCD become E or everyone except A should be freed!

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Originally Posted by Street3

K I like this idea but if c beats a then all under A's rule should now become c, or freed because then there is no more empire if the head of the empire is no longer, Also do a week to two week season and give clans the option to stay part of the empire or, go out on there own again! If they go out on there own then they get to redo their clan name! Also there should be a way for leaders and co leader to chat with the new conquered clan! But with a mute button In case of abusive language!

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But if a vassals manage to beat the ruler...they earned their freedom all right. But I don't see why others vassals should be freed too, they haven't earned it.

I like the idea of being able to communicate briefly with the vassal.

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Originally Posted by Street3

The way it is up top it seems that if A beats B who beats C then A owns all the clans that were beaten under their flag! So if C beats D, they too become A!

My deal is if A owns B C D, and gets beaten by E, then either ABCD become E or everyone except A should be freed!

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Well, if A owns BCD, and gets beaten by E and then ABCD should become owned by E, I believe it wouldnt work, because the more you advanced in the Imperial season the more a new battle would be important, ie, gaining another empire, or losing yours. So clans would stop fighting to preserve their loot, instead of risking losing it. no?

UNLESS, as ferg pointed out, you have sub empires...then if A owns BCD, and get beaten by E....E indeed owns ABCD, but A still owns BCD. So BCD are owned by A which is owned by E.

So A should get loot from BCD, and E should get loot from ABCD...like that, not losing their loot accumulated until now, A would keep on fighting, cos if it loses a battle it will still get loot in the end of the Imperial period.

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Originally Posted by Ferg

Scenario:
A beats B; B is part of A empire.
A beats C; C is part of A empire.
B beats D; is D a sub-part of A, or part of B empire, or both?
D beats A; what now?

I can see these options:
1) B owns D, which owns A, which owns C
2) D owns A, which owns C, but B is now free
3) D owns A, which owns B and C
4) A owns B and C but D is now free
[edit] 5) A owns B but C and D are now free [end edit]

Thoughts? I don't like any of these options, they all have flaws.

Understood re exponential growth hence the appeal. Vassals building sub clans allows the head clan to grow. I don't see the flags changing but I see a vassal would show their immediate empire's details and those of the ultimate empire. So growth comes from beating free clans, and beating other empires. I don't like the idea of losing vassals....just my opinion. :)

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A beats B; B is part of A empire.
A beats C; C is part of A empire.
B beats D; D is part of B empire, D is also part also part of A empire by extension (the ruler of my ruler is my ruler)
D beats A; D is freed from A and B (because he has beaten the ruler of his ruler thus he has beaten his ruler) same as if he had beaten B his direct ruler.



Help! let's call a mathematician expert in groups and sub groups. :) But after reflection and many edits, I think this should be it.

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Originally Posted by booshiboosh

A beats B; B is part of A empire.
A beats C; C is part of A empire.
B beats D; D is part of B empire, D is also part also part of A empire by extension (the ruler of my ruler is my ruler)
D beats A; D is freed from A and B (because he has beaten the ruler of his ruler thus he has beaten his ruler) same as if he had beaten B his direct ruler.



Help! let's call a mathematician expert in groups and sub groups. :) But after reflection and many edits, I think this should be it.

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That is option 4 per my post. D frees itself given it beat my rulers ruler. However, should B also be free because my vassal beat my ruler?

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Originally Posted by Ferg

That is option 4 per my post. D frees itself given it beat my rulers ruler. However, should B also be free because my vassal beat my ruler?

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I don't think so, D did the job of freeing itself.

B did nothing, but it lost its vassal that was able to beat its ruler. :)

That said, that kind of case shouldnt happen too often, given the amount of clans in this game. The probability is really weak, unless there is this revenge option. Which now seem useless if the Imperial period is set around 2 to 4 seasons, before it is set back to scratch.

What do you think?

It's already awful enough when you lose a clan war that cost ten million elixir or more collectively. Seeing a foreign banner flying over your clan would just rub salt in the wound. And being forced to pay tribute on top of that!? That's nuts.

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Originally Posted by Warble

It's already awful enough when you lose a clan war that cost ten million elixir or more collectively. Seeing a foreign banner flying over your clan would just rub salt in the wound. And being forced to pay tribute on top of that!? That's nuts.

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You dont actually pay tribute, the loot is generated automaticaly like the loot in each clan war. In a clan wars you dont pay the reward to the winner...

And the flag is optional...but i do like the idea of a clan remembering my clan owned them. And if it is just for the imperial period, around two seasons, then what? Your clan mates will be more willing to win the following battles, when it restarts from scratch :)

I'd be open to another item, the flag empire that would appear next to the clan description, and not violating your precious clan castle flag.

I just thought of this, what if we could mix your idea with my idea DOMINATION CONQUEST below in my thread!!! You start as a single village, and each person you beat joins your clan thus allowing troop request, then as your clan fills let's say you take control of a village that was a leader of a clan of 40 you then take control and are placed as the leader of the second clan as well and ...... Never mind it would be a major overhaul on the game so my idea is mute!!!! Sorry I was just thinking about the possibilities but as I said I think it would be to much!!

Your idea is awesome though and very well thought out!

I read it, but i really dont see how those two very different ideas could merge.

My idea is more an extension of the logic of the clan wars, yours more like a side game. Although they have in common the will of confronting players in the game on a wider scale, i dont see how to reconciliate both ideas.

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Originally Posted by booshiboosh

You dont actually pay tribute, the loot is generated automaticaly like the loot in each clan war. In a clan wars you dont pay the reward to the winner...

And the flag is optional...but i do like the idea of a clan remembering my clan owned them. And if it is just for the imperial period, around two seasons, then what? Your clan mates will be more willing to win the following battles, when it restarts from scratch :)

I'd be open to another item, the flag empire that would appear next to the clan description, and not violating your precious clan castle flag.

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What would happen if a clan became too small to war during empire, or even the conquering clans clan dropping to 9, would the clans be free if they can no longer war! And would it affect the conquering clans total bonus loot at end of seasons?

Just think about quatums web and such big clans....

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Originally Posted by Street3

What would happen if a clan became too small to war during empire, or even the conquering clans clan dropping to 9, would the clans be free if they can no longer war! And would it affect the conquering clans total bonus loot at end of seasons?

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If the clan still exists but cant war anymore because of the drop in players count, then it would still be part of the empire. The only way it would disapear would be if the clan would be disbanded, ie, no longer existed.

Even if the clan disapeared, it wouldnt change the loot earned, given it would be calculated at the moment the war ends.

Let's say you fight a clan of 20 players. If this clan recruits many players or loses many players afterwards, it wouldn't change the fact that at the moment of the victory, they were 20 fighting.

The only thing would be that if they cant fight anymore, they wont be able to bring more clans into your empire.

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Originally Posted by Ahorer

Just think about quatums web and such big clans....

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Well it wouldn't be easier for them given they re matched with equal big clans during clan wars. Given the matchmaking of the clan wars stay the same, it will be as difficult for a top clan as for a beginner clan.

I just re-edited the first post incorporing the reflections and change that came out of the discussion.

Thanks for your ccoperation making this idea a better idea :)

Her i found another thread spealing of the same topic.

The views on the matchmaking is different...but the global idea of a clan building an empire is basicaly the same.

http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...rs-Runoff-Idea

mehhh idk the whole idea sounds like a hassle

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Originally Posted by ZionAntero

mehhh idk the whole idea sounds like a hassle

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I am open to critisisms...could you at least elaborate?

what's the hassle? you gain more lot from the clan wars and you try to conquer the whole game...

I’m sorry, but I don’t want to be an emperor. That’s not my business. I don’t want to rule or conquer anyone. I should like to help everyone - if possible - Jew, Gentile - black man - white. We all want to help one another. Human beings are like that. We want to live by each other’s happiness - not by each other’s misery. We don’t want to hate and despise one another. In this world there is room for everyone. And the good earth is rich and can provide for everyone. The way of life can be free and beautiful, but we have lost the way.


Greed has poisoned men’s souls, has barricaded the world with hate, has goose-stepped us into misery and bloodshed. We have developed speed, but we have shut ourselves in. Machinery that gives abundance has left us in want. Our knowledge has made us cynical. Our cleverness, hard and unkind. We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery we need humanity. More than cleverness we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost....

The aeroplane and the radio have brought us closer together. The very nature of these inventions cries out for the goodness in men - cries out for universal brotherhood - for the unity of us all. Even now my voice is reaching millions throughout the world - millions of despairing men, women, and little children - victims of a system that makes men torture and imprison innocent people.


To those who can hear me, I say - do not despair. The misery that is now upon us is but the passing of greed - the bitterness of men who fear the way of human progress. The hate of men will pass, and dictators die, and the power they took from the people will return to the people. And so long as men die, liberty will never perish. .....


Soldiers! don’t give yourselves to brutes - men who despise you - enslave you - who regiment your lives - tell you what to do - what to think and what to feel! Who drill you - diet you - treat you like cattle, use you as cannon fodder. Don’t give yourselves to these unnatural men - machine men with machine minds and machine hearts! You are not machines! You are not cattle! You are men! You have the love of humanity in your hearts! You don’t hate! Only the unloved hate - the unloved and the unnatural! Soldiers! Don’t fight for slavery! Fight for liberty!




You, the people have the power - the power to create machines. The power to create happiness! You, the people, have the power to make this life free and beautiful, to make this life a wonderful adventure.

Then - in the name of democracy - let us use that power - let us all unite. Let us fight for a new world - a decent world that will give men a chance to work - that will give youth a future and old age a security. By the promise of these things, brutes have risen to power. But they lie! They do not fulfil that promise. They never will!


Dictators free themselves but they enslave the people! Now let us fight to fulfil that promise! Let us fight to free the world - to do away with national barriers - to do away with greed, with hate and intolerance. Let us fight for a world of reason, a world where science and progress will lead to all men’s happiness. Soldiers! in the name of democracy, let us all unite!



Did i mention I don't want to rule an empire? I like it the way it is

after all you said....why do you even play coc???? mwahaha