Here is a good example of dumb HERO AI
looks like the whole "smarter heroes" update was a failure
The pics Show my Barb King go passed a Gold Mine, Cannon, and Elixer Collector , just to kill an Archer Tower
♥♥♥ is this ♥♥?
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3899/...0eff868e_z.jpg
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3864/...f1d8f94d_z.jpg
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3836/...fb04eb69_z.jpg
You're like the guy that comes to the party 5 minutes before it ends
Heroes have been really messed up since the update and I think supercell changed the AI without telling us
ive also noticed that defensive buildings are acting like defending heroes and cc because my troops will actually not pick the closest building but instead try to attack the buildings that are shooting at them.
Hopefully a dev will shed some light because it wasn't like this before
has SC said anything on this, cause Barb King randoming ignoring targets seems kind of game breaking for their use if they can not be relied upon to attack "Any" target
SC is monitoring the situation, and will respond when there is a need. Refrain making several posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by dasyoyo16
:p
I hope they are changing stuff a little but if it's going on without us knowing it really has a potential to destroy our strategic thinking. Confidence is first to go and then you have trouble getting underneath attacking again. I have my suspicions it's buggy code from the recent changes though, which eventually we will get used to or it will be fixed
You should count yourself lucky. Here's what my Archer Queen did recently:
First, she gets hit by a multi-inferno tower:
http://i.imgur.com/gFPJqs9.jpg
Then she breaks through the wall and walks up to the inferno tower, but for some reason decides to ignore it:
http://i.imgur.com/xhDihPJ.jpg
Inexplicably she ignores the inferno tower, tesla coil, XBow, cannon, and archer tower who are all hitting her. Instead, she focuses on the air defense, the only defense building that posed absolutely no threat, and which is actually behind the inferno tower that was hitting her the entire time.
http://i.imgur.com/UdV7CNO.jpg
Needless to say, she didn't do very well.
Lol classic.Quote:
Originally Posted by SharkyFinn
[QUOTE=ULTRAELITE;2566815]Here is a good example of dumb HERO AI
looks like the whole "smarter heroes" update was a failure
The pics Show my Barb King go passed a Gold Mine, Cannon, and Elixer Collector , just to kill an Archer Tower
♥♥♥ is this ♥♥?[QUOTE]
The update was "smarter hero defending", not "smarter heroes".
They are testing every update very, very carefully, for a long time. So the heroes work as intended. You need to know your heroes again (post is sticky). Don't complain, buy gems...
Future update 'boost your heroes AI for only 15 gems".
Please reconsider your argument as there is a hint in the sticky's title "get to know your heroes (again)". Also, SC has guaranteed that they have made extensive test before releasing an update, and we are constantly balancing the game! Give it some time. We are pretty sure everything will go smooth and we are confident at such changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by dasyoyo16
In their last update, the heroes are re-balanced but I can guaranteed that such re-balance is delicately tested before it has been done and will benefit the game overall and all your players must adjust yourself to the new changes, including the AI changes for the reason that many players complaint about the OP hero AI and we listened so that it has been re-balanced.
Sincerely
deifieduandi (Non-official Supersell stuff)
Recently my king was in the same compartment as an archer tower. Rather that go to that archer tower, he proceeded to smash at a lvl 8 wall to get to a gold mine and a barrack. He died before getting through the wall. The new AI/changes really made the heroes dumb.
Can't tell if serious....:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by deifieduandi
If yes (OMG), WTH are you responding as if you were part of SC???
THIS, on the other hand, IS pretty serious. THIS IS ********.Quote:
Originally Posted by SharkyFinn
idk why ur guys are complaining my queen is so smart she gets the DE everytime even though she destroys a defense
I am not part of SCQuote:
Originally Posted by superclash99
sincerely,
deifieduandi (Non-official Supersell stuff)
It's very clear what happened with the OP's BK....
At the moment that he finishes off the building he was attacking just before the first pic was taken, the closest building to him is the archer tower inside the walls. Once that target is selected, it doesn't matter if other buildings become closer during his journey to it, his target is already selected. The only thing that can change that is either destruction of the target, or perhaps attack by CC/hero.
This is not new. It's how the AI has always worked.
The BK shouldnt have targeted the Archer tower behind the wall, it should have targeted the quickest path available for the "favorite target" which would have been the Gold MineQuote:
Originally Posted by Bruschi
why would my BK think the path it choose would be the best route
This is a huge gameplay broken mechanic
Supercell needs to figure out the programing on Distance to target on the path it takes, if shouldnt choose a target that has longer paths, when quicker ones are available
I wonder has SuperCells ever commented on this before?
Yeah, it seems that the Hero AI is definitely weird. But then again, if you think about it, most of the troop AI in the game seem to have low intelligence.
For instance, its really funny to watch a bunch of Giants just sit and die from a merciless attack from Clan Castle troops as they try desperately to break down a wall...funny as long as they aren't YOUR Giants...
Then, why are you writing:Quote:
Originally Posted by deifieduandi
andQuote:
Originally Posted by deifieduandi
and guarantee stuff you don't know about.Quote:
Originally Posted by deifieduandi
Is this a joke?
No, I am a serious person and this is pretty sure not a joke:pQuote:
Originally Posted by superclash99
supersell not supercell
Now, I'm not sure if I REALLY want to go grind all my dark elixir to get my BK, or if it's even worth it.
I would say go for it even if he has been re-balanced.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchangel
Agree, please change this Supercell. I never had this problem before the hero update.
Now do mine, because I can't find any rational explanation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruschi
It is not exclusive to the AQ if it makes you feel any better. I have seen this behaivor from other troops as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by SharkyFinn
♥♥♥♥!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganzilat
Is anyone gonna make spoofs? Like how topics about good loot were made all the time....😆
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULTRAELITE
Not just Heroes. The Whole AI is stupid now. Don't event make me start on Wbs. It takes me almost twice as much Wbs to be able to break walls as I used to do.
And the whole things about Hogs/Giants doesn't attack Heroes after destroy all defensive building as well.
I don't think it's true. They actually put the Wall into calculation when they calculate the closest distant. Even if it's Open wall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruschi
Think about it. If I make a wall divide my map into 2 part. 1 building is on the left side of the wall. Another on the right side, about 5 tiles down from the first building. If you drop your heroes on the right side of the wall and next to my building on the left side of the wall, I guarantee you it will walk down 5 tiles to attack the one on the same side of the wall :)
This is a glitch :)
:confused:So some people complain that they don't attack defenses and some complain that they on't:confused:
do u think im complaining?Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhybrid
I just want to know whats up with his dumb movements,
information like favorite target is crucial in knowing how ur attack will go
i plan my attacks based on what i know of the troop and how it will react
if i cant rely on "favorite target" then thats fine, they should remove that information, but as long as its up, i would expect it to work the way it says,
its not complaining, its saying why isnt this working the way SC listed in the BKs descriptions how its suppose to work.....
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________
Still nothing on SC on this weird Hero movements, taking longer paths and ignoring closer "favorite targets"
if u think it targeted the archer tower.......cause it was the closestQuote:
Originally Posted by Bruschi
then why didnt it target that dark elixer collector or the black cannon by the purple wizard tower?
What made him target the Archer tower and not the buildings next to it as it was making its round
it makes no sense, based on ur logic, he should have at the very least gone after the Dark elixer collector (next to the archer tower he targeted)
(in case ur wondering he the BK was placed by the Windmill on the left of the map and made his way south and around)
I had the same problem. BK passed by 4 buildings to try and attack a tesla that was hidden behind walls.
My queen generally just attacks walls...
The queen is the new wallbreaker
I had the same issue, AQ shooting at an AD while ignoring closer defenses and storages, and my BK bypassing targets to attack a defense
Well bit offtopic but,,,, yesterday i saw my wizards ignoring wizardtower, walk past it and start destroying storages next to it while wiztower deals damage to them and destroying them... there is something wrong with ai generally..
Yeah, you're right. I've seen lots or strange targeting going on. The heroes just stand out more because they last longer, so you can watch more of their movements.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coathanger
Hero defending are skill dumb as rock fyi.Quote:
Originally Posted by lbt12to12
OP: The queen's issue happens to every range troops, and the king happens to every close combat troops
>>> AI of this game is a mess. Most of the time you need lots of troops at the same time for them to help each others out.
This "improved" hero AI caused me to get only 2 stars in my CW attack today, my queen decided to shoot through two needless walls to get to a dark barracks instead of shooting at the one remaining defense that was shooting at her and was MUCH closer in proximity, FIX IT SUPERCELL
The new AI is incredibly spastic some of the stuff i see heros do is quite shocking how anyone can say that supersell put any sort of proper testing to figure it out, damn man these new "AI's" are so damn embarrising for the so called developer that im suprisied he is actually happy enough to realise it to the millions of people who play the game. If you still think supersell actually "fixed" the AI why dont you try answering why this so called awesome fix made troops act more stupid then ever
I'm so glad that SC have EXTENSIVELY TESTED the new heroes. Oh wait, they tested it on a developer ipad where they can choose whatever base they want to attack. Perhaps they tested it on a th5...?
Boost your heroes AI for gems :):):) Excellent idea :):):)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganzilat
Using the OP's pictures as an example, if you had a regular Barbarian it would walk along the wall to the Gold Mine. This pathing AI is already in the game and, IMO, should apply to all ground troops that target 'Anything'.
When the Barbarian King chose the 'closest' building in the OP's picture, the BK had to walk 5 spaces down to the wall opening and 5 spaces back - it's really a 10 space distance to that building. This really makes no sense to me.
Suppose hero AI is working as intended. Okay, then the Barbarian King is 2 spaces away from that building. Then why is it when the walls are closed my BK will move onto the next building outside the walls instead of attacking the wall to get to the building two spaces away?
The problem is that the AI is inconsistent if there's different variables involved (how far the buildings are, if there's a wall opening or if it's sealed up)
Its so stupid that supercell wont admit their mistakes and at least give us a response. The last update was a total fail in my opinion and wasn't needed at all, heroes are dumber and weaker than they have ever been and they try to tell us they are better than ever. Cmon should we even call them heroes anymore? Yeah great update cannot wait for the next one lol
besides the BK issue
The first pic shows the barbs that was summoned with Iron fist
some follow the BK
and the others target a wall..........
why....lol
I kinda like dumb heros. When i was defending one of my infernos were hitting a barb king and the king was wacking at a wall when there was a gold storage like 4 tiles closer from where he first was starting:)
I've deployed archers right beside a cannon and the archers ran past the cannon to shoot a barracks that was about 5 tiles past the cannon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coathanger
I agree! It has happened to me on so many occasions AFTER the update.
Perhaps a saboteur amidst the devs?
ya idkQuote:
Originally Posted by Awness
something is definitely off since the last update with their movements
i wonder if a MOD or DEV can give us some insight to why my BK did what he did
I wonder if this is applying to troops too in general. Because mine like attacking walls despite my wallbreakers making complete openings for them on attacking bases. I've even seen my troops attacking a single wall while everything else is cleared almost!
If there was really anything I truly hated about this game, is the absolute incompetent A.I. My god, I'm at my worst right now in Elixir when it comes to raiding that my troops just cannot do the job. They're all 4-stars evenly each, yet they do more time bumbling around, getting shot at and killed than actually caring about doing damage. It's like I can't call upon them often unless the base is Bronze-League level. x.x
I shudder to think what it'd be like if I ever got a "Hero".
maybe it is something with the wallsQuote:
Originally Posted by Infyrin
maybe the update that has "all troops target same wall" messed something up
if not then its something, cause i still cant figure out why the BK did those movements
Will try and get some answers for you on Monday, if not earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by ULTRAELITE
Thx for posting.
I agree it is stupid but there is some logic to it. Barb king targeted archer tower as next thing to attack the wall in front was a higher level to break into the compartment than the one on the side. So he went for the easiest way to break into the compartment. I have found once they have a target they will not change until it is destroyed no matter how detrimental to their health it is.
I dumped a king king to clean up a gold mine and storage he took the mine then ignored the storage and tried to break through a lvl 9 wall to get to defending aq. I only wanted the gold dammit.
The he archer queen on further up is definitely ♥♥♥♥♥♥ed though.
Here is my understanding.
The archer tower was closer to the king than the gold mines/cannon, so he targeted it, but didn't destroy any of the buildings on his way there. Hero AI targets closest building, but ignores the smarter moves, like destroying others first.
Then explain the post with the AQ. That happens a lot, and there's absolutely no logical explaination for that behaviour.Quote:
Originally Posted by NFriesen
That one is confusing. I can't explain that, and as far as I know, it's just an AI bug that needs to be fixed.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjdofu
Quote:
Originally Posted by sigtnz
I already disproved that theory on page 2
if he target the archer tower cause it was "closest"
then technically he should have targeted the Dark Elixer Drill next to it before even approaching the archer tower
if he was targeting closest buildings he would have target the dark elixer mine and not the archer tower.Quote:
Originally Posted by NFriesen
I had originally dropped him by the windmill and he made his way around. The Dark Elixer drill would have been target if it was a "closest" target issue
thank u!!!!! much appreciatedQuote:
Originally Posted by SuperSteve[Supercell]
It's okay folks Steve's on the job
See below removed ♥♥♥♥ expl.Quote:
Originally Posted by ULTRAELITE
Just looked at it again. You notice the way the buildings are spaced. What ever was in front of the archer tower was lined up with the archer tower while the building in front of the drill was on the side. Targeting calculated that after that building the next closest one was the archer tower. Must have something to do with alignment and the centre of targets when calculating pathing. And again once he has a target he won't change until either it or usually he is destroyed.
................................................^^ ^^^^^^.................this made me laugh so hard!!!!hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by deifieduandi
heroes make me just as much as they break me!
Same thing has happened with my Archer Queen. She's become unreliable during clan wars because she will bypass many buildings to walk around the base just to end up shooting a wall.
I had a similar problem yesterday. My king was in the core, and the only building left inside there was the th, but he decided to bang on a wall to go for a mortar... Kept me from the 2 star :P
Have you seen the Supercell logo? It does not say supersell and cut the krap with all this in official supersell staff stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by deifieduandi
What made me laugh even more is this, he dosent even know how to spell the company's name that he is an Un-offical staff member for lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Awness
Quote:
Originally Posted by deifieduandi
My theory on this is that the AI "Improvement" to make troops work together to take out a single wall instead of working on multiple walls is what is messing up with the heroes AI.Quote:
Originally Posted by dasyoyo16
So more weird movements of Heroes
These pics show the Archer Queen Attacking an Elixer Storage. Then before it is close to being destroyed, she stops targeting it and moves. The second pics shows her moving. and the Third pic shows that she stopped targeting the Elixer Storage (which is still up) so she can attack a wall.
Now look how far that wall is from the elixer storage....
why she do that?
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5589/...35e458f9_z.jpg
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5567/...872cbff0_c.jpg
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3873/...ea999a40_b.jpg
Now before u say it was cause she targeted heroes. Hes another pic, showing the AQ targeting the Enemy CC with the enemy BK right next to it, which she ignores till the CC is destroyed.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3842/...c24b8c4c_c.jpg
could be a possibility, hopefully we will get more info tomorrowQuote:
Originally Posted by LilWayneClashOfClans
why tomorrow?Quote:
Originally Posted by ULTRAELITE
Heroes, same as other units, have a minor randomiser system when choosing a new target, allowing them to act more "realistic" when fighting instead of following the exact same pattern, like a robot, for every attack. The intention is not to make them fail or miss obvious targets, but to add more depth and variety to each battle. The result is that occasionally their movement seems less linear than it should be. This is very hard to notice, so good on you for catching it.
We'll make some minor adjustments in the future, but this is more or less the intended behavior.
Cheers,
Steve
Bring Back The Robots !!! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSteve[Supercell]
Realistic? The game isn't realistic at all, If a witch is popping out skeletons then heros go for nearest target skeletons and not the skeleton producing witch.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSteve[Supercell]
Realisitically if I was the queen then I would target only th lol so we know it isn't realistic.
You said its suppoused to be like that then say you will fix it?
Hmmm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenarmy
I said we're making adjustments.
It's not hard to notice when it happens so many times, it's not even a surprise for me to see Queen going for a building behind a defensive building or straight up going for the wall. It happens very often.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSteve[Supercell]
I'd have to agree. The random factors are all provided by the bases we attack. We should be able to rely more on the AI to at least move in a predictable fashion in those bases we face, since we can't always count on them to defeat the various elements within those bases.Quote:
Originally Posted by iainator99
Thank you Steve for posting a future update for them.
Preciate it boss.
Glad you responded, and looking forward to it.
Thank you for taking the time to look into this!Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSteve[Supercell]
Minor randomiser seems like a bit of an understatement but hey Steve, what's great is that you promised an answer and kept your word too! You're okay in my book
What exactly qualifies as a need? Hero AI is terrible and does not work as advertised. What more "need" is there?Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna912
At least we know they will fix it somehow ;) but anyway my queen really acts cool
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSteve[Supercell]
Realism. You would like to add it to the game. I respect that. We are playing a game that heavily reliant on artificial intelligence in order to be successful and most importantly fun. And yes, I feel that the more realistic the AI.....the more enjoyable the gaming experience. But how can you say you want more realistic AI when you also say that it is intended for certain troops to act in such unpredictable and unreliable ways..... For instance, in a situation where you are being attacked by something, wouldn't your real life reaction be to return fire at that thing rather than shoot at some non threat? The archer queen all too often will rather take fire from an AT to her right while happily taking aim at the air defence far left. How "realistic" is that? I get you are trying to make their movement seem more "free"....but i think this game would be more awesome if troops like heroes had a "radar" ability. They are the most expensive troops in the game and I know they come with an ability but they truly should be smarter....A queen shooting at walls to get to the next compartment when there are buildings well within her range just isn't fitting of a "Hero". Youre reply to the thread is appreciated but I still feel we are being short changed with heroes. They are just too dumb....intentional or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchise
Correct Correct and correct, the higher lvl your hero the thicker they get, aq shooting at a wall while being hit by defenses within her range is absolute bull!! They want you gemming stuff dont listen to the pathetic replies, they are more interested in your ideas for the game so they can use them for their own ideas as their development team cant come up with anything original to add to the game. Bloody poor in my opinion!!
1. I don't think it's hard to notice. I encounter it many many times.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSteve[Supercell]
2. Could you please explain the AI of Wall breakers? After last update, they start breaking empty and/or open section. They keep making bigger hole on the same wall. In addition, normally when I drop two wbs at the same time, it target the same piece of wall, or 2 pieces close to each other. No they might target 2 pieces which are apart in a wall. The result is we have a long line of wall with little health left, while it should be broke in the old AI. Please don't tell me it's the randomness because it happens way too often.
Quote:
Originally Posted by o0oAnnyo0o
Nobody can explain the AI of wall breakers. I've seen replays where some seem to actively run away from walls......
The wall breakers... are an enigmaQuote:
Originally Posted by Lloopy14
Apparently you think we were born yesterday.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSteve[Supercell]
Regardless of the intentions it is not adding "depth" and "variety" to the game. It is adding frustration and lost opportunities.
No, it is not "very hard to notice", its painfully obvious. When the troops walk passed 4 or 5 key buildings to shoot a wall or building that is a non-factor,.... it is hard to not notice.
I have had instances where the king or queen (its happens with both) walk passed buildings to attack another building, and this is when I first drop them.
Turn down the randomisser to stun, because your "team" has the thing set to vaporize....
If there is a randomizer and they are tweaking stuff it's little wonder why people can't learn the new AI.. Not only does it have a chance element but also it literally keeps changing. My wife is about to give up, going to mention this to her.
You wouldn't have made 50% anyway tbh. The thing with Heroes is they can chase CC troops and other Heroes. I'd have to see a video replay but chances are he was going for a CC troop.
I love how they try to write of bugs as something intended to make it more realistic, supercell is stepping up their dirty tricks. Like they weren't using enough of them yet.
Well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchise
This is my favorite. Some guy got a 99% instead of 100% because the AQ did what AQ's do.
http://i.imgur.com/Qp23FXS.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilsLuck
Come on man cant you see this amazingly realistic behavior??
cant you praise supercell for their amazing work that adds depth and variety to the game?
Steve answer was the biggest waffle ever seen on this forum. Heroes and overall AI is totally broken and you try to tell us its working as intented ? Please answer about WB AI since last update, opening one compartment and then killing useless walls of the very same set of walls' working as intented too?
Ai is broken, fix it please. Heroes are stupid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deifieduandi
http://static.topnettools.com/10.jpg
Hopefully you will fix this next update, hopefully............Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSteve[Supercell]
;):D:o:):(:confused::mad::p:rolleyes::cool::eek:;) :D:o:):(:confused::mad::p:rolleyes::cool::eek:;):D :o:):(:confused::mad::p
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSteve[Supercell]
Im pretty sure nobody is stupid enough to go for a wall if there is a wide open lane ahead of you. Also, (steve logic: depth and variety= rage quitting and horrible AI) the "this is very hard to catch" thing can be seen by everyone (we aren't stupid). AND HOW IS THIS THE INTENDED BEHAVIOR????!!! What kind of "realistic" ness is this? I mean how could they try to make everything realistic if everything already isn't? Like cc troops who hop over walls but fast goblins who can't?
Its like shooting down some random people when the other team is shooting down. What did the innocent random people ever do to you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchise