Love clan wars/ hate dragon wars

My clan has been a strong solid clan for a long time and when clan wars started we loved it and constantly did wars. We have won 39 wars (a solid respectable amount). Now we are on a 5 war losing streak because everyone is now using nothing and I mean nothing but all dragon attacks. My whole clan has switch to anti dragon bases and still get destroyed. We refuse to take the easy way out and start doing dragon attacks.

Is there any advise y'all have on something we could do different. I personally would like to see supercell weaken the dragon or something.

Do dragon attacks, drags or hogs.

um. What is the problem with doing a mass dragon attack? If it is a win your wanting, use it.

Heck you dont even need ALL dragons. You can use 6 dragons, some archers, your BK and heal spells.

You act like dragon armys are not a fair or worthy attack plan. As someone who really enjoys mass dragons, I can tell you they DO require some strategy because the AI makes them scatter brained. You have to use other troops to keep the dragons focused towards the center.

To stop a dragon army you just need to place your AD, WT, AT and air bombs correctly. I have come across TH8's in wars that prevent a 3 star with dragons. Trust me, it can be done, AND it will work as a good defense against most other troops as well.

Edit/add: Dragons are not OP... they are expensive and time consuming to create and to upgrade. If they did this much damage but cost the same as an archer... THAT would be OP. They do NOT need a nerf.

dragons are too good against th7 because it is fail-proof unless the attacker is incompetent.

but those people who rely on dragons will get owned when going up against th8 that know how to make a real base. 400k elixer to get 1 star on a th8 is a pretty ♥♥♥♥ty deal, and if any th9 gets 2 starred vs dragons you should just kick them right there.

so don't worry, people who rely only on mass dragons will get theirs eventually once they tech up past th7

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Originally Posted by kristinepixie

um. What is the problem with doing a mass dragon attack? If it is a win your wanting, use it.

Heck you dont even need ALL dragons. You can use 6 dragons, some archers, your BK and heal spells.

You act like dragon armys are not a fair or worthy attack plan. As someone who really enjoys mass dragons, I can tell you they DO require some strategy because the AI makes them scatter brained. You have to use other troops to keep the dragons focused towards the center.

To stop a dragon army you just need to place your AD, WT, AT and air bombs correctly. I have come across TH8's in wars that prevent a 3 star with dragons. Trust me, it can be done, AND it will work as a good defense against most other troops as well.

Edit/add: Dragons are not OP... they are expensive and time consuming to create and to upgrade. If they did this much damage but cost the same as an archer... THAT would be OP. They do NOT need a nerf.

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To be fair you only think drags aren't OP because yours are level 1.

Yes, they may be a little OP... But still counterable. First, centralize cc instead of centralizing TH. Then, put all mines and air bombs and tesla on the side with the TH. Finally, profit.

OK tbh there is absolutely no TH7 that can stop drags...

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Originally Posted by OriginalDi

dragons are too good against th7 because it is fail-proof unless the attacker is incompetent.

but those people who rely on dragons will get owned when going up against th8 that know how to make a real base. 400k elixer to get 1 star on a th8 is a pretty ♥♥♥♥ty deal, and if any th9 gets 2 starred vs dragons you should just kick them right there.

so don't worry, people who rely only on mass dragons will get theirs eventually once they tech up past th7

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My TH8 clanmates can 2 star 85% of TH9's with dragons. They do it every war.

very true, there is no TH7 that can survive a major dragon attack.

However, regardless of dragon lvl, they are not OP. no amount of fast damage counters the price or time to cook. As someone else said.... 400k for 1 star and 200k war loot is a crappy deal.

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Originally Posted by kristinepixie

very true, there is no TH7 that can survive a major dragon attack.

However, regardless of dragon lvl, they are not OP. no amount of fast damage counters the price or time to cook. As someone else said.... 400k for 1 star and 200k war loot is a crappy deal.

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They're a little OP. Not OP enough to warrant a nerf, because they are pricy, but in war people with no skill can pretend to be awesome with them and get 6 stars very easily.

why is nerfing always the go-to option for so many ppl?

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Originally Posted by martin0605

why is nerfing always the go-to option for so many ppl?

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Is there a better option to balancing an OP feature in the game? Not to imply anything is OP, this question is unrelated to the thread.

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Originally Posted by tjj89

My TH8 clanmates can 2 star 85% of TH9's with dragons. They do it every war.

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All this means is a lot of people have terrible bases. I'm sure I can dragon some th10 for 2 stars too if they are bad enough at base making too. Just because somebody can find some noob th9s doesn't mean th9 is vulnerable as a whole.

Even as a th8 i haven't been 3 starred in the last 10+ wars by dragons and I don't even have a base that is specifically anti-dragon. The last war 3 people sent literally 40 dragons at me and the best they could do was 1, 1, and finally 2 stars. It's not like i'm doing something special. I just have upgraded AD and chunkified pathing so that they don't go straight to the middle.

th7 gets stomped, no argument there.

gowipe is a much more difficult attack to defend as a TH8, because none of our traps do anything to it and they can steamroll over all the regular defense.

i don't blame people for doing mass dragon because a lot of bases are very bad vs air attacks right now since people tend not to think about air before th8. but by th8 and especially by th9 it shouldnt be a problem for a smart base designer.

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Originally Posted by OriginalDi

All this means is a lot of people have terrible bases. I'm sure I can dragon some th10 for 2 stars too if they are bad enough at base making too. Just because somebody can can find some noob th9s doesn't mean th9 is vulnerable as a whole.

I stand by my statement that any th9 gets 2 starred by dragons they should change their base. its embarrassing.

Even as a th8 i haven't been 3 starred in the last 10+ wars by dragons and I don't even have a base that is specifically anti-dragon. The last war 3 people sent literally 40 dragons at me and the best they could do was 1, 1, and finally 2 stars. It's not like i'm doing something special. I just have upgraded AD and chunkified pathing so that they don't go straight to the middle.

th7 gets stomped, no argument there.

gowipe is a much more difficult attack to defend as a TH8, because none of our traps do anything to it and they can steamroll over all the regular defense.

TH7 attackign TH8 has to go with dragon since it is the best strategy, but th8 dragoning a th8 usually means the defending th8 has ♥♥♥♥ty air defense placement. th7 or 8 attacking th9 with a 2 star result just means the th9 is bad.

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Ok, first, let's address the fallacies in your argument. You claim that my anecdotal experience isn't evidence but yours is? Debunked.

Second, we actually know how to use dragons. Not just spamming them down or randomly dropping them all over the base, there's a reason my clan has 59 wins. 15% (roughly) of TH9's can't even be touched by our TH8's dragons, fair enough, but most bases are a very easy and safe 2 star. No TH8 design has ever stopped my clan's TH8's ability to stomp TH8's with drags. If a TH9 is ever 3 starred by a TH8, then yes, he is likely bad, but 2 stars? Nope. We get that against good clans every war.

People have this misconception that spamming dragons down and getting 3 stars is a byproduct of skill and not due to the fact that what they're using is in some situations OP. This had led most mass drag users to stick with their nooby raiding style, and would render them useless against a decent TH9. The truth is that 90% of people that use dragons are bad and the masses think that's how drags should be used, which some know wouldn't work against most TH9's (like you).

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Originally Posted by tjj89

Is there a better option to balancing an OP feature in the game? Not to imply anything is OP, this question is unrelated to the thread.

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Personal improvement maybe. I havent been 3 starred by dragons and I was never 3 starred by mass hogs either. I will, however, agree that mass dragons vs TH 7 is broken.

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Originally Posted by tjj89

People have this misconception that spamming dragons down and getting 3 stars is a byproduct of skill and not due to the fact that what they're using is in some situations OP. This had led most mass drag users to stick with their nooby raiding style, and would render them useless against a decent TH9. The truth is that 90% of people that use dragons are bad and the masses think that's how drags should be used, which some know wouldn't work against most TH9's (like you).

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So what's your problem then? If the majority of drag users are bad, and they're still three-starring you, then either they're attacking way below their level, or your air defense is horrible. If they're attacking low, then there's nothing anyone can do. But no matter what you need to be upgrading your air defense and archer towers.

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Originally Posted by Markhitt

My clan has been a strong solid clan for a long time and when clan wars started we loved it and constantly did wars. We have won 39 wars (a solid respectable amount). Now we are on a 5 war losing streak because everyone is now using nothing and I mean nothing but all dragon attacks. My whole clan has switch to anti dragon bases and still get destroyed. We refuse to take the easy way out and start doing dragon attacks.

Is there any advise y'all have on something we could do different. I personally would like to see supercell weaken the dragon or something.

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How is it the easy way out to use dragons? Use what gets you three stars... Duh? Besides, if you are a town hall 8 getting attacked by a town hall 9 with any ounce of skill you should get three starred by dragons. Four spells is just too much.

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Originally Posted by Michaelyoda

So what's your problem then? If the majority of drag users are bad, and they're still three-starring you, then either they're attacking way below their level, or your air defense is horrible. If they're attacking low, then there's nothing anyone can do. But no matter what you need to be upgrading your air defense and archer towers.

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You clearly didn't understand the point.

The point is that dragons as a whole are misrepresented by the masses that use them. Most people don't know how to use them correctly, but instead think that dragons are good because they are slightly OP. I.E. TH7 Dragons are a completely broken balance model, and it shows in war.

This does NOT mean that they are using dragons to their max potential. Someone who truly understands how to use dragons will know how powerful they can be, and that a TH8 who actually knows what he's doing can easily 2 star most TH9's.

The misconception of how to use drags makes drags less effective, which most people believe is the way drags should be used and how powerful they really are.

I don't really get it, either. When I first discovered dragons with TH 7 I of course thought I was clever and invincible ��

I even started a thread about it:
http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...s-successfully

Today I know and admit that these first bases were a piece of cake. But my son and me, both of comparable offensive strength and leading the clan together are steadily learning and improving. Since we consequently upgrade stuff, we have more or less become the big kahuna in our small clan, so it is upon us to attack ever stronger enemy bases.

Just look at this one - spamming dragons? Anyone could do that? we discussed that base for about half an hour during preparation day and made up our strategy. Then it was his time to try and he won:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezy-0uz1I9o

Believe me for each epic victory we have our 2 and 1 stars, the latter in clan wars I consider a complete fail. That one was almost about to fail for about two or three seconds left ...

I like dragons. I study their AI and I'm improving my skills in using them. I don't even think they are slow to breed. I can produce 12 of them in one and a half hour. 10 for my own use and 2 to donate. Of course, if you are so stupid to get only one of your barracks to maximum level instead of all of them ...

In essence: no, don't nerf them. They are perfect as they are and still a sufficient challenge to use against better bases. And a TH 7 can be steamrolled by other means, anyway. Possibly it's the fact that with TH7 and dragons for the first time a player can three-star any other base of identical level, that makes people think they are OP. I have yet to find out if that holds for TH8, too ;)

Clash on,
Patrick - Dragon Master Apprentice

Sorry to say but that TH9 was trash against drags. Did you see how terribly those air defenses were placed? Either they were completely outside or they were easy pickings after you get rid of outer buildings. Unless you are adamant enough to continue with fail dragon placement, that was a super easy base to mass drag.

Yes, of couse. But identifying that weakness and picking that base and deciding on a dragon attack, is a skill.
A skill, people accused of "dragon spamming" lack. I would not attack my own base with mass dragons. 3 rather central triangulated level 5 air defenses. Level 6 coming soon ... ish ... eventually ... you guys know the upgrade times. But they have always been high on my priority list. So I get three-starred by hogs ;)

Kind regards
Patrick

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Originally Posted by pmhausen

Yes, of couse. But identifying that weakness and picking that base and deciding on a dragon attack, is a skill.
A skill, people accused of "dragon spamming" lack. I would not attack my own base with mass dragons. 3 rather central triangulated level 5 air defenses. Level 6 coming soon ... ish ... eventually ... you guys know the upgrade times. But they have always been high on my priority list. So I get three-starred by hogs ;)

Kind regards
Patrick

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You and your son should come join our clan the kel tecs. About to win #50

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Originally Posted by treyshooter

You and your son should come join our clan the kel tecs. About to win #50

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Cannah leave me brave MacLeods, can I? 😉 But thanks.

Patrick

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Originally Posted by tjj89

You clearly didn't understand the point.

The point is that dragons as a whole are misrepresented by the masses that use them. Most people don't know how to use them correctly, but instead think that dragons are good because they are slightly OP. I.E. TH7 Dragons are a completely broken balance model, and it shows in war.

This does NOT mean that they are using dragons to their max potential. Someone who truly understands how to use dragons will know how powerful they can be, and that a TH8 who actually knows what he's doing can easily 2 star most TH9's.

The misconception of how to use drags makes drags less effective, which most people believe is the way drags should be used and how powerful they really are.

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Sorry, thought you were the OP for some reason. My bad.

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Originally Posted by Michaelyoda

Sorry, thought you were the OP for some reason. My bad.

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np bro. 10c

With the huge number of potential combinations there remain only few player favorites when you want to win. If you want to win at any cost then you can narrow the selected quite nicely.

Atthe end of the day you have massdragon and gowipe/gowiwi as the top tier attack combos. Hogs used to be in that group, but with the change to big bombs they have moved of the chart. Some guys do use healer-giant, barch or balloonian or the rare valk in between somewhere. Why are these few combos used? Simply because they work. Last night a guy took revenge on me with one golem and eight max pekkas getting 42% damage, minimal loot. Guess that tactic will not become the next big thing in clanwars :)

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Originally Posted by kristinepixie

um. What is the problem with doing a mass dragon attack? If it is a win your wanting, use it.

Heck you dont even need ALL dragons. You can use 6 dragons, some archers, your BK and heal spells.

You act like dragon armys are not a fair or worthy attack plan. As someone who really enjoys mass dragons, I can tell you they DO require some strategy because the AI makes them scatter brained. You have to use other troops to keep the dragons focused towards the center.

To stop a dragon army you just need to place your AD, WT, AT and air bombs correctly. I have come across TH8's in wars that prevent a 3 star with dragons. Trust me, it can be done, AND it will work as a good defense against most other troops as well.

Edit/add: Dragons are not OP... they are expensive and time consuming to create and to upgrade. If they did this much damage but cost the same as an archer... THAT would be OP. They do NOT need a nerf.

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This is it exactly. I completely agree. I think they are underpowered relative to, say, baloons. At max for TH8 they are more than twice as expensive as balloons and require just as much skill to use if not more against good bases.

We have a couple players that use mass dragons, one of whom is really good at it. We get hit with dragons quite often I guess, but they are far from an automatic 3 star and very few people are good at using them. And as Kristin said their AI is one of the dumbest in the game, almost as if they just really don't want to attack air defenses or town halls, they just run around getting slowly pecked at by everything ... Its also not that common of an attack.

Its strange how all these other clans are having experiences so different than ours. We've won 45 and no mass-dragon clan ever beat us. We're not THAT great. I cannot recall mass dragons beating one of our TH8s that is set up well to the tune of 3 stars. We've seen 2 stars, and we've seen TH7s get 1 starred by them also.

I just don't get it. In 50+ wars I just don't see it. We're up against a clan with 40 wins right now. So far we're up 29-4, but they have only used 1 of their strong players attacks. And that was giants/wiz with jump spells and heroes. Then they giant/archered our weakest player.

In our last war (I just looked) the opponent got 2 stars or more with giants/wiz, straight barch, giants/arch + 2 dragons against a TH7, giants/wiz/arch/balls and one drag against a th7 (twice), barch on a th6. The one before that mass dragons with rage got 2 on a th8, in neither war did any of our top 4 (one th9 and 3 high level th8s) even got attacked.

That isn't that powerful of a strat for its cost.

Mass dragon with only rage spell is bound to fail on a decent TH 8 base. Anything lower than 3 stars on TH 8 is fail.

no anti dragon base can stop dragons from 2 starring you un less you are attack by a new dragon raider,they are very few as mass dragon has been ruling since th7,only reason for the recent mass dragon is because hogs are too risky so everyone adopted the next best strategy.mass dragon/dragloon is the safe way of ensuring 2 stars without using de.if you dont you mass dragon try balloons and hogs but it doesnt always work because of the hog ring on th9 and double giant bombs so if op and his/her clan refuses to use mass dragon ,im afraid the losing streak will continue.dragons are not op,stop saying that people.an op troop is a troop that 3 stars you even if you got a base that is meant to stop that particular troop like hogs used to 3 star antihog bases.get your AD to level 6&7,get an anti air base and not even 13 dragons can 3 star you

We just fought one of those " dragon clans". Its six Th8s with five of them using dragons. 10 Th7s with maybe half of them using dragon attacks. They attacked our newbie Th7s getting two to three stars and the Th8s floundered on our Th8s getting two to one stars not attacking good bases. Point is these people would of been starred anyway. Could of just did it with ballons, giant/healer, gowipe. Nobody gets impressed. Just seen a upgraded TH9 dragon army get one star on a ok TH8 base and he didn't screw up his deployment that bad. How is that possible in the world of clan war theorycraft?
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Originally Posted by tjj89

Ok, first, let's address the fallacies in your argument. You claim that my anecdotal experience isn't evidence but yours is? Debunked.

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You: I know a poor person so that means everybody is poor.

Me: I know a rich person so that means some people can be rich.

Tell me which is the logical fallacy.

Look, I'm not saying its impossible to 3 star TH8s and TH9s with dragons. People do it all the time because even in clan wars something like 80% of the bases range between non-optimal to terrible. Maybe one in 5 wars I will attack a base where I am like "well I have no ideas for this guy".

But supercell can't really balance the game around people who refuse to make sensible bases.

I will admit, our clan leader just made mass dragons look insanely easy in our current war. Hit for 3 against a TH8, although not the best set up TH8. Used his BK and its ability to clear the buildings right in front of an air D that was near the edge, dropped the dragons on it and they cleaned up the rest with probably 6 drags left.

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Originally Posted by OriginalDi

Even as a th8 i haven't been 3 starred in the last 10+ wars by dragons and I don't even have a base that is specifically anti-dragon. The last war 3 people sent literally 40 dragons at me and the best they could do was 1, 1, and finally 2 stars.

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Just wondering, could I see your base? I have my AD centered with a blank area and walls between them and next buildings outside them that is 2-3 spaces wide, yet still getting 3 starred with mass drags. It's almost like they home in on AD and fly over other buildings to get to them...

Edit: 2 AD maxed, 1 upgrading now to max

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Originally Posted by OriginalDi

dragons are too good against th7 because it is fail-proof unless the attacker is incompetent.

but those people who rely on dragons will get owned when going up against th8 that know how to make a real base. 400k elixer to get 1 star on a th8 is a pretty ♥♥♥♥ty deal, and if any th9 gets 2 starred vs dragons you should just kick them right there.

so don't worry, people who rely only on mass dragons will get theirs eventually once they tech up past th7

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Im a th8 and use dragons for about half i my war attacks (sometimes i mix it up an use gowipe because its fun). I can consistently 2 star fairly well upgraded th9s, and 3 star most th8's. The trick is use a few drags to clear some outside stuff, then deploy the rest. You also need good spell placement. Against stronger bases you may manipulate your drags to attacking the th by attacking from a place where the cc and heroes will draw the dragons in.

facing a true mass dragon clan now. 25 wins (we have 45, but who knows maybe they don't play as often as us), nice bases. Some really ingenious elements to their base designs (like spacing buildings all over the board so you can only spam on the very outer edges and are much more likely to time out).

We blew 4 attacks so far costing us 5 possible stars... by timing out basically. I'm a little worried, they are pretty good.

But, and this is dead accurate, so far they have no 3 stars against TH8s or up, 2 3 stars against TH7s, 2 1 stars against TH7s, etc.

They may very well win, they are ahead right now, but I don't know if that will be because dragons are so broken or if it will be because we just haven't played very well.

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Originally Posted by Markhitt

My clan has been a strong solid clan for a long time and when clan wars started we loved it and constantly did wars. We have won 39 wars (a solid respectable amount). Now we are on a 5 war losing streak because everyone is now using nothing and I mean nothing but all dragon attacks. My whole clan has switch to anti dragon bases and still get destroyed. We refuse to take the easy way out and start doing dragon attacks.

Is there any advise y'all have on something we could do different. I personally would like to see supercell weaken the dragon or something.

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Yeah OP is right, nerf hogs!

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Originally Posted by Markhitt

My clan has been a strong solid clan for a long time and when clan wars started we loved it and constantly did wars. We have won 39 wars (a solid respectable amount). Now we are on a 5 war losing streak because everyone is now using nothing and I mean nothing but all dragon attacks. My whole clan has switch to anti dragon bases and still get destroyed. We refuse to take the easy way out and start doing dragon attacks.

Is there any advise y'all have on something we could do different. I personally would like to see supercell weaken the dragon or something.

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well if your anti dragon bases is getting stomped then i got news for ya....

it aint working

and as far as dragon spamming, get everyone to upgrade air towers first and learn to dragon spam urself
its quite easy. just drop all dragons in a line then randomly drop a few rage spells here and there.

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Originally Posted by Blazenar

Just wondering, could I see your base? I have my AD centered with a blank area and walls between them and next buildings outside them that is 2-3 spaces wide, yet still getting 3 starred with mass drags. It's almost like they home in on AD and fly over other buildings to get to them...

Edit: 2 AD maxed, 1 upgrading now to max

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sure i will do this later once i have access to my ipad

i guess the only thing special about the base is that instead of doing the spread out ring approach which tends to lose to smarter attackers who open a hole before deploying more dragons that end up going to the center directly, i have 2-3 layers.

also if you have positioning like this:

hut barracks collector collector barracks hut

dragons deployed in a line will go to the center since the outside buildings have less hp and will die first.

so if you have your AD behind them in the middle, it is better to do:

collector barracks hut hut barracks collector

since the huts will be destroyed first, and then the middle dragons will peel outwards away from your AD.

this is a principle i use in my base on the flat sides that tend to get 'line dragoned' and it helps in keeping the AD alive.

another thing is that I always '♥♥♥♥♥' with air bombs by putting them towards the side that is most commonly dragoned. this can be kind of reasonably predicted because with 3 AD they will very likely come from the side that has 2 AD, while lighting the 3rd. spreading air bombs out i found does not help vs dragons (or balloons). you want to do max damage with your bombs ASAP and get as many dragons down as quickly as possible. ideally your bombs all hit before your ADs even get attacked.

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Originally Posted by Reefus

Yeah OP is right, nerf hogs!

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They already did with last update, 1.5x dmg by big bombs on hogs. Much harder to wipe a TH9 if the owner did a good job with big bomb placement.

Drag3 Full is our minimum standard, you should consider making that the standard attack.

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Originally Posted by JackShaftoe

They already did with last update, 1.5x dmg by big bombs on hogs. Much harder to wipe a TH9 if the owner did a good job with big bomb placement.

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You didn't get the joke.

Run a ringed base with storages as the 2nd ring. Upgrade air defense. Yap that simple. Its to difficult for majority of CoC. Instead ask for a nerf. Reason everyone is using dragon is it still hasn't caught on that air defense is important. As much as we hear whines here there is millions of players that could careless about forums.

upgrade your air defenses and place them close to the center of the base. If you have high level air defenses in the right spots the dragons will 1 or maybe 2 star you but not 3.