Gems!! The final show down!!

Edit: I realise I did not say what the purpose of this post was for, after another "Gems are unfair post" today, I decided to try and create a post to stop these threads from popping up. Somewhere for people to reference, if, in the name of all that is good MORE gem whine threads appear. Also i know its a long post so if your going to skim it and comment PLEASE at least know the context of my post.

Hey guys I am writing this as I go along but I can feel it brewing and It's going to be a long one. Just a heads up.

First of all i would like to establish I have spent money on gems in the past, probably around £200 or so worth ranging from a single £70 pound purchases to get a few upgrades I DECIDED I didn't want to wait for (Heros update), but mostly on the £2.99 packages for some cheap army raiding gems.
Ok so first off what were my reasons for purchasing gems? Well first of all, i really enjoy the game. I love the style they took to the artwork, I also love the simple yet deep mechanics and just overall concept of the game. I love the fact it's on my iPad or phone and is highly portable for me to pick up and play anywhere when i get 5-10 minutes or if i want to if i get some time to myself I can pop some movies on or a good TV series sit in for a few hours and raid and chat my socks off! I also work away on residential for good portions of my week, and you guessed it No WiFi (its in the deep countryside). So purchasing allows me to make a few tweaks here and there so I can stay on curve for MY goals. But lastly and the most Important reason, It's my disposable income and I can choose to spend this portion of my income however I please.

The "problems"
Ok so lets see what the primary gripes seem to be about gems:
1. They are too expensive Supercell are greedy and should reduce the price of them, they would get more customers and make more money!! Or it should be a paid for app that would be fairer with a one off price.
2. Its unfair, people who pay get an advantage over those who choose not to pay.
3. It masks player skill so the "most skilled" or "best" players don't get the recognition they deserve!
4. Gems are not anything material, your are paying money for nothing only a Schmuck would do that!

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1. So lets start with the first point. SC pricing is wrong or unfair. I live in England so the pricing scheme I will reference too will be in pounds sterling. Lets look at the options we have to purchase.

£2.99 - 500 gems
£6.99 - 1 200 gems
£13.99 - 2 500 gems
£34.99 - 6 500 gems
£69.99 - 14 000

So first of all you can see, there is pretty much a pricing option available to ANYONE who is playing this game. If you have an Apple iPad or iPhone you are going to be in the demographic that can afford to spend a little bit if you so choose to. We have the low end purchase option that's great for the kids if their parents give them an apple allowance each week or a bit of pocket money, a good way in fact to teach them value for money and yes, PATIENCE!
Then we have the mid range of pricing for the teenagers / adolescents with part time jobs and study commitments.
And last but not least you have the larger purchases generally aimed towards the working individual If they so choose to spend their money this way.
Even not based on a demographic the pricing options are so flexible it really is up to you what you spend on the game. Sure there is a discount on larger numbers of gems to encourage sales but that's standard business 101.

So, "Greedy" SC should lower their prices so more people should buy gems and in turn they make more money. The fact they are making ($600 000 - $1 000 000 a day, again I just saw this figure on the forums its more just a point of reference so please don't quote as an accurate statistic) SHOWS that their pricing system is fair and being fully utilized by it's audience. Also to bear in mind is that, not at any point does it force you to, THIS IS A FREE GAME (and a high quality one in both concept and design in my opinion).
SC also has to cover its costs (including the straight up 30% apple takes from any IAP) and yep you got it, make money!? How dare they.

So after SC have covered all their staffing costs, keep consistently paying the upkeep for their server costs for its million or so users, payed off the backlog of debt accumulated developing the game before it went Live and a whole host of other overheads that most people don't even comprehend. AS WELL as consistently, tweaking game play balances and adding additional content to this FREE game. They get to make a bit of money!

For example say you or I chose to start up a cupcake business offering an assortment of cupcakes at different prices. Our cupcakes are so well baked, and so colorfully and individually designed that the general public love them, and before we know it there is a huge demand for our cupcakes. So we take on more staff, a new premises and expand the business out slowly and start adding other products to our range to meet the increased demand and going off the feedback that our already loyal customers are giving us.
Before we know it we're multi-million pound enterprise and our product was so strong and our business acumen so well implemented its netting us great rewards for our determination, diligence and perseverance in what is an increasingly aggressive economic climate. But now we stop right? Because were making so much money we should stop, its not fair. We check our cupcake forums and a minuscule percentage of people who are buying our product are moaning we make too much money.
I think everyone gets the idea.
Personally i hope the CEO of SC has bought himself a great big boat, and a holiday home for him and his family to enjoy now that his idea that I am enjoying so much is proving fruitful.
(that was the big one folks)


2. Its Unfair. People who pay get an advantage over those who don't.

Firstly there is not a single thing in the game that cannot be obtained free of charge. No premium currency products, nothing. All it saves is time. So, the advantage of having a better base? Better troops?.....compared to who? you?

OK so tomorrow you get given 1 000 000 gems, you max your walls, troops, hero's the WORKS. You have everything you ever dreamed of. Now what?
So lets think, what is "fair"? the person who spends £10 on gems a month so that in between his/her work and family commitments they can still enjoy the game and get personal reward to playing, even though they have a much smaller window in which to play the game. Or the 15 (again not stereotyping just for EG purposes) year old kid on his summer holidays who gets 8 weeks of free time, in which he can raid every hour he so chooses to all day every day. No work commitments, no family commitments.
So to really make it an even playing field lets take out gems completely, and limit EVERYONE'S play time to 1 hour as most people could accommodate this. But 1 hour in a single sitting wouldn't work because of timezone differentials, so lets stagger it to 2 1/2 hours slots each day so that anyone anywhere at least gets there 1/2 hour play and its even playing field. Also new players that start have a new system in place. The game averages the build values of every single base currently in the game, and provides the new player with the mean cost of a base in resources, and lets them design a base to that standard. Again just to make sure its super fair. Sounds like a fun game now right?

3. It lest the lesser skilled players get to the top by (paying to win) so the actual skillful players don't get recognized.

First of all, lets get a grip folks. The game involves placing troops and then watching how they react and occasionally reacting with the odd spell or two. When it comes to a mechanical skill level, the skill cap is somewhat low in this game. I'm not saying their aren't subtle nuances to it or there is no skill at all, but you are not tap strafing to avoid bullet recoil while dodging shots, or a flick 180 jump pad long range head shot with a rail gun, You aren't conducting 300+ APM (actions per minute) strategies with an enormous army that you control every single unit independently, again you get the gist. This lower skill cap however is for 2 reasons, SC market is on the tablet and the tablet has a sole Input method of tapping. As of right now you are never going to get the skill cap that the likes of a mouse and keyboard based game or a console controller based game, period. The low skill cap also makes the game accessible to more people, perfect for the tablet market. Good job SC.
So where is the skill? In my opinion it lies primarily in game knowledge. When to deploy, where to deploy, how and what with to deploy and how to achieve your goals as efficiently as possible; efficiency is the skill. Same with defense, where to place, place what structure with what? So on and so fourth. So i guess my real question to these people who claim this, what do you want to prove and to who? Starcraft is always available if you fancy it.
I personally think the top 10 players will probably have the nigh on best game knowledge if not equivalent to anyone else out there. Also remember that at these levels the players choose to spend a lot on gems to stay competitive as this is their PERSONAL goal, purely based on how competitive it is and they have the disposable income and TIME to do so.
Also remember these types of player are probably funding SC 90% of their income, so they are basically sponsoring the free game you choose to play for you. As far as business is concerned, if you have not payed a dime towards this game, you have not supported development costs, server costs, staffing costs, nothing. Yet you still get to play the same game as those that do however those that choose to pay get things a littler earlier. I just fail to see the big issue, the only issue i see is an entitlement one.

4. People who pay to pay in a games are Schmucks, who would pay for a game, it's not even a material object??

Firstly, i hope you have taken into account all my previous points. So lets get into the "Its not even real" argument. Personally I find this argument so mind numbing and narrow minded but lets go with it.
Personally I don't measure what i spend my money on dependent on weather it is material or otherwise, I measure on cost VS Enjoyment / Enjoyment Duration, these are my personal criteria I'm not saying its right or wrong. So lets work with an example, Ill use an actual example as this is how i see it.

I enjoy CoC, for my money spent so far i have had literally countless hours of fun on this game and it is STILL going to serve me more, being constantly updated and tweaked it is dynamic and evolving.
So I could spend £70 on CoC, Finish a few high level building, Set a high level troop upgrade, pay for resources and upgrade some walls and set some other buildings upgrading, all in all quite a substantial difference to my base. And as my enjoyment comes from just seeing my base develop and grow, this is a long term investment and I get the benefit of this investment for as long as i choose to play the game for.
With this £70 i could by 2 games for my PS3, sure i could probably get a good 80 hours worth of fun out of that £70 if i chose my games correctly, or i could only get only 40 if I disliked one of the games, ore the games completion time was short and had minimal replay value. At least with CoC purchase is a know quantity, and cumulative investment that will serve me for my probably thousands of hours of play time to come.

OR i could spend my £70++ on a night out with friends (which I definitely do don't get me wrong). I get to purchase material alcohol so I am getting something for my money.
As well as a meal to start with, the price starts adding up. Now that has provided me with a good 12 hours of entertainment that i enjoyed. Did i enjoy it more than Coc? Not necessarily, its a different sort of enjoyment. But the bottom line is all I would have to show for that £70 in the morning would be a sore head and not even necessarily the memories of the fun time I had.

So i know I've rambled on and this post isn't very well written I was just trying to get the point across Please just stop whining about it, If gems weren't here, a subscription would HAVE to be. and to make a subscription model work they would have to offer different packages of subscription to appeal to all the price ranges, so there would still be inequalities, as well as re designing the game we already enjoy playing.

Just my 2 cents folks, moral of the story is SC aren't Greedy their clever as they don't push the game to one kind of play type they allow it to be accessible to people of all abilities, ages, play time windows and income levels if they so choose. I know this will never stop the hate on gems, but every time someone spouts of "Greedy" Supercell i cant help but think hypocrite.

Agreed.

pinser who only skimmed it

yeah tl;dr but I think I agree

Yet another rant that sides with gemming, or makes excuses for it and SC in general. Boring.

We here these arguments daily, you're not saying anything new, just more long winded.

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Originally Posted by Sanjakimo

The "problems"
Ok so lets see what the primary gripes seem to be about gems:
1. They are too expensive Supercell are greedy and should reduce the price of them, they would get more customers and make more money!! Or it should be a paid for app that would be fairer with a one off price.
2. Its unfair, people who pay get an advantage over those who choose not to pay.
3. It masks player skill so the "most skilled" or "best" players don't get the recognition they deserve!
4. Gems are not anything material, your are paying money for nothing only a Schmuck would do that!

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Well thought out post mate :)
Here are my views.

1. CoC is still steadily being top 1,2 most of the time.. doesn't seem to be anything wrong with their current model. Maybe you should set up a theory/model and stomp into their office and present it to them. Maybe they will accept and implement ? ;)
   *For a slight decrease in cost of gem, will yield a greater increase in gem buyers, thus leading to a net increase in profit*
   Something along those lines XD
2. Thats what I like about farming, it helps to "slowly" negate the difference between a gemmer and none-gemmer.
   And at lower trophy level, gemming doesn't seem to affect much.
   BUT, at the extremely high level, like 3k trophy +, then I agree.
   Gemmers get the advantage of having instant troops for battles almost instantly, and being able to have more raids per day.
   its really a "pay to win" zone, which I really do not wish to be part of that zone. I'm satisfied *for now*.
3. Agreed. But then again, this game boils down to grinding + time commitment in the long run, which doesnt require much skills haha.. so its issue with the game.
   Recognition wise, its a great ego booster, but its not that big a deal actually, I don't really need compliment from strangers on the internet haha.. :)
4. Its a virtual currency, in exchange for virtual speed up and achievement. Its up to individual to perceive its value and its their money lol.
   
   
   my very short 2 cents

I also think it should be a paid app that doesn't have any in app purchases. That way everyone has an equal chance to be #1

I have to say that was very well written and you've obviously made an effort to convey your thoughts. I find myself agreeing with most of what you said. :)

2,393 words!?! Is that a record? :p

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Originally Posted by DarkSoulz

I also think it should be a paid app that doesn't have any in app purchases. That way everyone has an equal chance to be #1

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Not everyone would have an equal chance. The people that have been playing longer would have the advantage and new players would have ZERO chance.

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Originally Posted by IRoss

I have to say that was very well written and you've obviously made an effort to convey your thoughts. I find myself agreeing with most of what you said. :)

2,393 words!?! Is that a record? :p

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Well written? It is needlessly long and a complete rehash of arguments that are made here daily.

There is absolutely nothing new, original, or thought provoking in the OP's post.

I can't wait to see how long each golem upgrade takes. So the gemmer loses more money and the non-gemmer has to wait even longer.

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Originally Posted by blurx

I can't wait to see how long each golem upgrade takes. So the gemmer loses more money and the non-gemmer has to wait even longer.

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I think the gems are too cheap. It should be more expensive. That way all the gemmers will quit and it'll be a fair game.

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Originally Posted by DarkSoulz

I think the gems are too cheap. It should be more expensive. That way all the gemmers will quit and it'll be a fair game.

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Then SC will quit too.

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Originally Posted by blurx

Then SC will quit too.

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It should be a paid app with no in app purchases

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Originally Posted by DarkSoulz

I think the gems are too cheap. It should be more expensive. That way all the gemmers will quit and it'll be a fair game.

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It is a fair game now. What you are asking for is a game where whoever joined 1st wins. It would be pointless for anyone that wants to be the #1 player to join after the 1st day.

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Originally Posted by DarkSoulz

It should be a paid app with no in app purchases

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IMO, if they made it a one off Cost, it would not cover the overheads of a game type serving this many people. So yes there may be no gems. But server quality would be poorer, patch content would be much less developed and tested and the overall lifespan of the game reduced. All in all, a worse game in every way.

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Originally Posted by rondoblows

It is a fair game now. What you are asking for is a game where whoever joined 1st wins. It would be pointless for anyone that wants to be the #1 player to join after the 1st day.

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So paying to win is fair. Also being the 1st person to play doesn't mean your gonna be #1 on leader boards

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Originally Posted by Thecageyone

Yet another rant that sides with gemming, or makes excuses for it and SC in general. Boring.

We here these arguments daily, you're not saying anything new, just more long winded.

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Please would you suggest your version of the game that doesn't involve a gem model? I'm just interested to hear another perspective too. Also to note, i don't side with gemming, its just it's here and i don't have a problem with it.

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Originally Posted by DarkSoulz

So paying to win is fair. Also being the 1st person to play doesn't mean your gonna be #1 on leader boards

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There is very little skill involved with this game, it's mostly about time. Without gems there would be no way to make up lost time. People that joined earlier would always be ahead on building and troop upgrades.

obviously the best type of app for $ is free app + IAP instead of paid app, as proven and shown by many examples..
candy crush ? coc ? hay day ? TF2 ? There are many other examples, but yeah I don't play them so I rather not quote them.
Since by having a $ paid upfront to even try the app, it creates a barrier of entry for players interested in the game.

Since they are not only targeting loyal + paying players, but also attracting new players by making it free upfront, builders, gems are up to the player thereafter.

Very few paid app made it far, apart from their loyal players, usually from other versions/platform of similar games.

At the end of the day, sc is a money making company. $ is priority. whether they can achieve balance between game balance, fairness in game is secondary, Atleast thats what a rationale company should be thinking.
But if the game balance is totally broken, then thats a different story.
I wouldn't say the current game balance of coc is totally broken imo, just require some adjustments.

@OP,

1. Let's see how the new update shakes up the gemming issue... the trophy leagues, while introducing more "free loot" into the CoC eco-system, may also incentivize more people to trophy chase, gem for troops, etc, etc. We shall see, but I for one, am afraid, very afraid, for the temperature of these beloved forums soon...

2. I am often accused of being a verbose dictator, and after your post, I humbly say, forget Corugi, we need you instead. You should see our clan chat, everyone is writing paragraphs and paragraphs, where a simply "TY" would suffice. Wink.

3. If you wrote all that on an iPad, I am really, really impressed :)


Illustris, BTW, there are a few, very, very important free things you can only get with gems (e.g., Mighty Statue, Pirate Flag, etc), just a tidbit, given your comments

Very well put Sanjakimo. :cool:

Cheers!

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Originally Posted by Sanjakimo

Please would you suggest your version of the game that doesn't involve a gem model? I'm just interested to hear another perspective too.

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I don't mind buying gems here and there. I've said this numerous times here. BUT, I would prefer a set price on the game, say $10, for everyone. That way we'd see the true best players top of the board, not those who have the funds to drive ahead.

But it's getting old now. Every day there's someone either moaning against gems, or praising SC for making them part of the game.

Very well written!!

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Originally Posted by Thecageyone

I don't mind buying gems here and there. I've said this numerous times here. BUT, I would prefer a set price on the game, say $10, for everyone. That way we'd see the true best players top of the board, not those who have the funds to drive ahead.

But it's getting old now. Every day there's someone either moaning against gems, or praising SC for making them part of the game.

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No you wouldn't. There is not enough skill involved with this game for it to matter much in leaderboard rankings. The players that started the earliest and play the most hours would be on top of the leaderboards. I would expect a lot of the same names to be there.

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Originally Posted by Junliang

Well thought out post mate :)
Here are my views.

1. CoC is still steadily being top 1,2 most of the time.. doesn't seem to be anything wrong with their current model. Maybe you should set up a theory/model and stomp into their office and present it to them. Maybe they will accept and implement ? ;)
   *For a slight decrease in cost of gem, will yield a greater increase in gem buyers, thus leading to a net increase in profit*
   Something along those lines XD
2. Thats what I like about farming, it helps to "slowly" negate the difference between a gemmer and none-gemmer.
   And at lower trophy level, gemming doesn't seem to affect much.
   BUT, at the extremely high level, like 3k trophy +, then I agree.
   Gemmers get the advantage of having instant troops for battles almost instantly, and being able to have more raids per day.
   its really a "pay to win" zone, which I really do not wish to be part of that zone. I'm satisfied *for now*.
3. Agreed. But then again, this game boils down to grinding + time commitment in the long run, which doesnt require much skills haha.. so its issue with the game.
   Recognition wise, its a great ego booster, but its not that big a deal actually, I don't really need compliment from strangers on the internet haha.. :)
4. Its a virtual currency, in exchange for virtual speed up and achievement. Its up to individual to perceive its value and its their money lol.
   
   
   my very short 2 cents

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Well put forward, and I can understand why people dislike the climate as it is perceived at the high end, As pay to win. Ill never be able to put the money or time into the game that is required to be ranked top 100 in this game ever. But i knew this pretty much as soon as I started playing so it was not a driving factor for me to get annoyed about and never has been.

What I don't quite understand is how people get annoyed that THEY cant compete to the upper echelons of the ladder. without paying at all! (if there is an option too). I cant think of a single circumstance in life where this is possible. The reason that the top players spend so much on gems and play for such long periods of time is because they are able to, and I hate to burst anyone's bubble but the more popular this game becomes and the larger audience it attracts the more of a polarizing affect this is going to be, purely because more people = more people able to fit this criteria.

Another example is League of Legends. Another FTP game that allows anyone to play for enjoyment, however if you want to be competitive you either have to have the HUGE amounts of time required to grind to max level 30, to grind a full array of champions so that you are able to counter pick effectively at high elo, and the huge amount of time need to grind all the necessary rune book combinations for each individual champion. Now its not as grind intensive sure, and due to the nature of their game they can appeal for income in a different way. I think there are 100+ or so champions in the game, players tend to trend towards strong champions obviously but its common for people to have a favorite set of champions. So how can you make money of this? Because each champion is individual they offer Skins that can only be purchased with Real currency, so if you have a fave champ you might spend a bit of money and get a cool skin for them etc.

So i guess a proposition for SC would be to start developing either entire Base "Themes", Say a Frozen ice base (archer towers in snow outfits, blue icy color theme all they way through, wizard towers on icebergs, mortars shooting snowballs)etc etc. As an entire base theme would visual enough for the consumer to consider it a purchase. Also leaves lots of room for expansion so easy to start would be the elements, Magma/fire base, Nature/wilds base. So on and so forth, Halloween bases, deep space bases it goes on. Same goes for entire armies, skinning a single troop would not be a worth purchase, but if you could buy a Theme for you entire army, again, same principal as the base. The only champions that could be skinned individually would be the hero's, which i think would work.
The only problem i see with this is that every structure and army unit would have to be skinned through levels 1 - 11 and all upgrade forms. Quite time intensive with a small team of developers i would think? I could be wrong on that though.

Also a business is never going to take a step backwards, so if they did do that, they would just add it as ANOTHER feature to pay for if people wanted to and to add the their portfolio of up sells.

P.s. i would personally love to be able to theme my base / army / Hero's. You could even start skinning the terrain. so instead of Next Next Next green pastures and fields all day. It would be Next volcanic magma scape, Next - Winterscape Next. Which i think would a a whole new feel of traveling around looking for bases to fight as the varied landscape would automatically make the world "feel" bigger. It all comes down to costs / time / profits etc though. Anyway getting carried away, thanks for a good reply!

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Originally Posted by Sanjakimo

But i knew this pretty much as soon as I started playing

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Really? 0.o lol

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Originally Posted by Sanjakimo

What I don't quite understand is how people get annoyed that THEY cant compete to the upper echelons of the ladder. without paying at all! (if there is an option too).

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Skill is an unknown word right?

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Originally Posted by Sanjakimo

The reason that the top players spend so much on gems and play for such long periods of time is because they are able to, and I hate to burst anyone's bubble but the more popular this game becomes and the larger audience it attracts the more of a polarizing affect this is going to be, purely because more people = more people able to fit this criteria.

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The reason is because they are deeply addicted and they wear blinkers. Either they go on playing and playing for nothing or they quit when they realise that they did all that for temporary fame and joy.





I wouldn't reply to this thread, because i see you are a true advocate of Gem buying...

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Originally Posted by Sanjakimo

Hey guys I am writing this as I go along but I can feel it brewing and It's going to be a long one. Just a heads up.

First of all i would like to establish I have spent money on gems in the past, probably around £200 or so worth ranging from a single £70 pound purchases to get a few upgrades I DECIDED I didn't want to wait for (Heros update), but mostly on the £2.99 packages for some cheap army raiding gems.
Ok so first off what were my reasons for purchasing gems? Well first of all, i really enjoy the game. I love the style they took to the artwork, I also love the simple yet deep mechanics and just overall concept of the game. I love the fact it's on my iPad or phone and is highly portable for me to pick up and play anywhere when i get 5-10 minutes or if i want to if i get some time to myself I can pop some movies on or a good TV series sit in for a few hours and raid and chat my socks off! I also work away on residential for good portions of my week, and you guessed it No WiFi (its in the deep countryside). So purchasing allows me to make a few tweaks here and there so I can stay on curve for MY goals. But lastly and the most Important reason, It's my disposable income and I can choose to spend this portion of my income however I please.

The "problems"
Ok so lets see what the primary gripes seem to be about gems:
1. They are too expensive Supercell are greedy and should reduce the price of them, they would get more customers and make more money!! Or it should be a paid for app that would be fairer with a one off price.
2. Its unfair, people who pay get an advantage over those who choose not to pay.
3. It masks player skill so the "most skilled" or "best" players don't get the recognition they deserve!
4. Gems are not anything material, your are paying money for nothing only a Schmuck would do that!

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1. So lets start with the first point. SC pricing is wrong or unfair. I live in England so the pricing scheme I will reference too will be in pounds sterling. Lets look at the options we have to purchase.

£2.99 - 500 gems
£6.99 - 1 200 gems
£13.99 - 2 500 gems
£34.99 - 6 500 gems
£69.99 - 14 000

So first of all you can see, there is pretty much a pricing option available to ANYONE who is playing this game. If you have an Apple iPad or iPhone you are going to be in the demographic that can afford to spend a little bit if you so choose to. We have the low end purchase option that's great for the kids if their parents give them an apple allowance each week or a bit of pocket money, a good way in fact to teach them value for money and yes, PATIENCE!
Then we have the mid range of pricing for the teenagers / adolescents with part time jobs and study commitments.
And last but not least you have the larger purchases generally aimed towards the working individual If they so choose to spend their money this way.
Even not based on a demographic the pricing options are so flexible it really is up to you what you spend on the game. Sure there is a discount on larger numbers of gems to encourage sales but that's standard business 101.

So, "Greedy" SC should lower their prices so more people should buy gems and in turn they make more money. The fact they are making ($600 000 - $1 000 000 a day, again I just saw this figure on the forums its more just a point of reference so please don't quote as an accurate statistic) SHOWS that their pricing system is fair and being fully utilized by it's audience. Also to bear in mind is that, not at any point does it force you to, THIS IS A FREE GAME (and a high quality one in both concept and design in my opinion).
SC also has to cover its costs (including the straight up 30% apple takes from any IAP) and yep you got it, make money!? How dare they.

So after SC have covered all their staffing costs, keep consistently paying the upkeep for their server costs for its million or so users, payed off the backlog of debt accumulated developing the game before it went Live and a whole host of other overheads that most people don't even comprehend. AS WELL as consistently, tweaking game play balances and adding additional content to this FREE game. They get to make a bit of money!

For example say you or I chose to start up a cupcake business offering an assortment of cupcakes at different prices. Our cupcakes are so well baked, and so colorfully and individually designed that the general public love them, and before we know it there is a huge demand for our cupcakes. So we take on more staff, a new premises and expand the business out slowly and start adding other products to our range to meet the increased demand and going off the feedback that our already loyal customers are giving us.
Before we know it we're multi-million pound enterprise and our product was so strong and our business acumen so well implemented its netting us great rewards for our determination, diligence and perseverance in what is an increasingly aggressive economic climate. But now we stop right? Because were making so much money we should stop, its not fair. We check our cupcake forums and a minuscule percentage of people who are buying our product are moaning we make too much money.
I think everyone gets the idea.
Personally i hope the CEO of SC has bought himself a great big boat, and a holiday home for him and his family to enjoy now that his idea that I am enjoying so much is proving fruitful.
(that was the big one folks)


2. Its Unfair. People who pay get an advantage over those who don't.

Firstly there is not a single thing in the game that cannot be obtained free of charge. No premium currency products, nothing. All it saves is time. So, the advantage of having a better base? Better troops?.....compared to who? you?

OK so tomorrow you get given 1 000 000 gems, you max your walls, troops, hero's the WORKS. You have everything you ever dreamed of. Now what?
So lets think, what is "fair"? the person who spends £10 on gems a month so that in between his/her work and family commitments they can still enjoy the game and get personal reward to playing, even though they have a much smaller window in which to play the game. Or the 15 (again not stereotyping just for EG purposes) year old kid on his summer holidays who gets 8 weeks of free time, in which he can raid every hour he so chooses to all day every day. No work commitments, no family commitments.
So to really make it an even playing field lets take out gems completely, and limit EVERYONE'S play time to 1 hour as most people could accommodate this. But 1 hour in a single sitting wouldn't work because of timezone differentials, so lets stagger it to 2 1/2 hours slots each day so that anyone anywhere at least gets there 1/2 hour play and its even playing field. Also new players that start have a new system in place. The game averages the build values of every single base currently in the game, and provides the new player with the mean cost of a base in resources, and lets them design a base to that standard. Again just to make sure its super fair. Sounds like a fun game now right?

3. It lest the lesser skilled players get to the top by (paying to win) so the actual skillful players don't get recognized.

First of all, lets get a grip folks. The game involves placing troops and then watching how they react and occasionally reacting with the odd spell or two. When it comes to a mechanical skill level, the skill cap is somewhat low in this game. I'm not saying their aren't subtle nuances to it or there is no skill at all, but you are not tap strafing to avoid bullet recoil while dodging shots, or a flick 180 jump pad long range head shot with a rail gun, You aren't conducting 300+ APM (actions per minute) strategies with an enormous army that you control every single unit independently, again you get the gist. This lower skill cap however is for 2 reasons, SC market is on the tablet and the tablet has a sole Input method of tapping. As of right now you are never going to get the skill cap that the likes of a mouse and keyboard based game or a console controller based game, period. The low skill cap also makes the game accessible to more people, perfect for the tablet market. Good job SC.
So where is the skill? In my opinion it lies primarily in game knowledge. When to deploy, where to deploy, how and what with to deploy and how to achieve your goals as efficiently as possible; efficiency is the skill. Same with defense, where to place, place what structure with what? So on and so fourth. So i guess my real question to these people who claim this, what do you want to prove and to who? Starcraft is always available if you fancy it.
I personally think the top 10 players will probably have the nigh on best game knowledge if not equivalent to anyone else out there. Also remember that at these levels the players choose to spend a lot on gems to stay competitive as this is their PERSONAL goal, purely based on how competitive it is and they have the disposable income and TIME to do so.
Also remember these types of player are probably funding SC 90% of their income, so they are basically sponsoring the free game you choose to play for you. As far as business is concerned, if you have not payed a dime towards this game, you have not supported development costs, server costs, staffing costs, nothing. Yet you still get to play the same game as those that do however those that choose to pay get things a littler earlier. I just fail to see the big issue, the only issue i see is an entitlement one.

4. People who pay to pay in a games are Schmucks, who would pay for a game, it's not even a material object??

Firstly, i hope you have taken into account all my previous points. So lets get into the "Its not even real" argument. Personally I find this argument so mind numbing and narrow minded but lets go with it.
Personally I don't measure what i spend my money on dependent on weather it is material or otherwise, I measure on cost VS Enjoyment / Enjoyment Duration, these are my personal criteria I'm not saying its right or wrong. So lets work with an example, Ill use an actual example as this is how i see it.

I enjoy CoC, for my money spent so far i have had literally countless hours of fun on this game and it is STILL going to serve me more, being constantly updated and tweaked it is dynamic and evolving.
So I could spend £70 on CoC, Finish a few high level building, Set a high level troop upgrade, pay for resources and upgrade some walls and set some other buildings upgrading, all in all quite a substantial difference to my base. And as my enjoyment comes from just seeing my base develop and grow, this is a long term investment and I get the benefit of this investment for as long as i choose to play the game for.
With this £70 i could by 2 games for my PS3, sure i could probably get a good 80 hours worth of fun out of that £70 if i chose my games correctly, or i could only get only 40 if I disliked one of the games, ore the games completion time was short and had minimal replay value. At least with CoC purchase is a know quantity, and cumulative investment that will serve me for my probably thousands of hours of play time to come.

OR i could spend my £70++ on a night out with friends (which I definitely do don't get me wrong). I get to purchase material alcohol so I am getting something for my money.
As well as a meal to start with, the price starts adding up. Now that has provided me with a good 12 hours of entertainment that i enjoyed. Did i enjoy it more than Coc? Not necessarily, its a different sort of enjoyment. But the bottom line is all I would have to show for that £70 in the morning would be a sore head and not even necessarily the memories of the fun time I had.

So i know I've rambled on and this post isn't very well written I was just trying to get the point across Please just stop whining about it, If gems weren't here, a subscription would HAVE to be. and to make a subscription model work they would have to offer different packages of subscription to appeal to all the price ranges, so there would still be inequalities, as well as re designing the game we already enjoy playing.

Just my 2 cents folks, moral of the story is SC aren't Greedy their clever as they don't push the game to one kind of play type they allow it to be accessible to people of all abilities, ages, play time windows and income levels if they so choose. I know this will never stop the hate on gems, but every time someone spouts of "Greedy" Supercell i cant help but think hypocrite.

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I wonder why anyone would spend money and even more time writing about such a spotless topic as should I get the hero now...

Asperger syndrome ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by denial

Really? 0.o lol.
Yes

Skill is an unknown word right?

*You obviously didn't read the initial post. Skill is definitely not the limiting factor in this game. And I'm not criticising it for that either. The limiting factor is time. As stated in original post if you want to "prove" how "skilful" you are, this is not going to be your game.


The reason is because they are deeply addicted and they wear blinkers. Either they go on playing and playing for nothing or they quit when they realise that they did all that for temporary fame and joy.

*Thats pretty critical and assumptious on all accounts. Who are you to dictate what people enjoy and how long they can enjoy it for? Would you be so critical towards a player spending a lot of time playing the game if they were severley dissabled and had severe mobility issues? Or is everyone healthy bodied in your view of "the world isn't fair".



I wouldn't reply to this thread, because i see you are a true advocate of Gem buying...

*Again, taking my points completely out of context. Im not pro gem whatsoever, i just think its an acceptable model to be put in place that isnt wholey as unfair as people percieve. As i also stated a subscription model would also work, although you would have to target at least 3 different packages to be affective. Bronze , silver, gold and probably even a platinum subscription. And guess what, all the top players would be platinum subscribed. It also mean players have less flexibility with their payment and in the long term you would probably end up spending a LOT more on the game than with the gem model.

Ok so they could reduce the price of gems that would be fine, i certainly wouldnt complain. But all that would do is bring people who werent prepared to pay for the game, into more likelyhood of paying. So if you were in that catagory of people you would not have that so called "advantage" as everyone else would have the exact same opportunity. You might percieve it as an advantage though if your base looks better....

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Replied in quote to each point, Italics.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by denial

Really? 0.o lol



Skill is an unknown word right?



The reason is because they are deeply addicted and they wear blinkers. Either they go on playing and playing for nothing or they quit when they realise that they did all that for temporary fame and joy.





I wouldn't reply to this thread, because i see you are a true advocate of Gem buying...

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What does that have to do with gems? Isn't that true of everybody playing Clash of Clans?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lesmog

Asperger syndrome ?

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That comment gave me a panic attack. Do you want to see my frog collection? Nobody else does.

Also, Aspergers has been incorporated into the autistic spectrum its no longer a standalone disorder. That joke is so 2012.

Sanjakimo, mate, that was excellent.

I wasn't entirely following the argument in point 2, but I have had some wime. Nevertheless, my only problem was the now certain-to-be-sure knowledge that you have been following me and/or tapping my phone. My missus asked me about this game I am playing (CoC) and I pretty much told her exactly what you wrote. Only a few weeks ago.

Spookyville!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rondoblows

What does that have to do with gems? Isn't that true of everybody playing Clash of Clans?

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No ask trophy hunters how much hours do they need to stay online just to maintain their trophies....




More or less Always Online ....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by denial

No ask trophy hunters how much hours do they need to stay online just to maintain their trophies....




More or less Always Online ....

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Thats their prerogative, your not getting it. Lets change up the game model. Instead of having a base that gets attacked you have a farm........... And your goal is to farm crops and a build and run a successful virtual farm. Now no one can take your resources or "reduce" your score by attacking you when your offline, so you are indeed safe to log off. So once you have gotten to a certain point in the game its yours forever. However if we took the same player base from CoC and played that game. Guess who would more than likely be top? The exact same players. Why? Because its all about time commitment. Because its these same players of have the TIME to play the game this way, your score may not go down, but there score will go up more than yours ever will, purely because they have the time to put into the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by denial

No ask trophy hunters how much hours do they need to stay online just to maintain their trophies....




More or less Always Online ....

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But the popular opinion in this thread is that the people on top of the leaderboard only got there because of gemming. Doesn't that mean the people that are not buying gems are also online just as much?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fister

Sanjakimo, mate, that was excellent.

I wasn't entirely following the argument in point 2, but I have had some wime. Nevertheless, my only problem was the now certain-to-be-sure knowledge that you have been following me and/or tapping my phone. My missus asked me about this game I am playing (CoC) and I pretty much told her exactly what you wrote. Only a few weeks ago.

Spookyville!

---

Hehe cheers mate. Basically the 2nd point was highlighting that everyone moans that its not "fair" that some people pay money to play the game, and thats the inequality everyone concentrates on. I was just highlighting that if this was a PURELY free to play game, then more than likely the exact same people would still be top as the limiting factor is TIME not money. (Money allows you to reduce the limiting factor). And the people that would be complaining would not be those that cannot afford to play, but those that did not have the time to play competitively, those with jobs / families / sporting commitments etc. IE the majority of people ^^.

Ok so we should not call them Top Players we should name the category Top No-Lifers?


Clearly we don't share the same views...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sanjakimo

Hehe cheers mate. Basically the 2nd point was highlighting that everyone moans that its not "fair" that some people pay money to play the game, and thats the inequality everyone concentrates on. I was just highlighting that if this was a PURELY free to play game, then more than likely the exact same people would still be top as the limiting factor is TIME not money. (Money allows you to reduce the limiting factor). And the people that would be complaining would not be those that cannot afford to play, but those that did not have the time to play competitively, those with jobs / families / sporting commitments etc. IE the majority of people ^^.

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Not sure. Those people are the ones who CANNOT wait. Probably why they have cash available, they'll work damn hard to get results fast and be paid well. No way would the top ten players still be playing if they had to wait 14 days for an xbow. Remove the gem factor, those people will leave super-fast.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by denial

Ok so we should not call them Top Players we should name the category Top No-Lifers?


Clearly we don't share the same views...

---

I don't understand what your views are. At first I thought you were anti-gem but now you appear to be anti-taking the game seriously. I do not share that view. I find the game fun, and I'm glad that I can play it as much as I want.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by denial

Ok so we should not call them Top Players we should name the category Top No-Lifers?


Clearly we don't share the same views...

---

Well if thats how we are going to qualify people, I am level 77 and you are level 96. So therefore you have less of a life than me by a factor of 19.

Also, sometimes people circumstance just allows them more time to play. For EG Jorge, from what I can gather an honest articulate likeable chap who's job affords him the money and time while working to commit to his personal goals. He doesn't strike me as a No Lifer whatsoever.

Whatever game you play, theres probably going to be someone better, who can play longer. Weather that gives them an advantage in grinding, or an advantage in practicing the skills needed to do well at the game. If you wanted to dedicate to spending more of your time to become better at something then thats absolutely up to you. Different things different people.

You're the first person to complain about gems. Since you brought it up I really think they're going to change their gem policies. Thanks for your help!

I actually disagree, I think the prices are pretty fair... And of course people who donate are going to have advantages over people who don't... otherwise what's the point? You should be glad you don't play Crime City, their rates are absolutely terrible. 500 gems for 5.00 is pretty decent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Circa2012

You're the first person to complain about gems. Since you brought it up I really think they're going to change their gem policies. Thanks for your help!

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Not entirely sure who that sarcasm laser was pointed at lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Circa2012

You're the first person to complain about gems. Since you brought it up I really think they're going to change their gem policies. Thanks for your help!

---

Ouch-I wish my sarcasm laser was as good as yours. But now I have something to strive for, that was great!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fister

Not sure. Those people are the ones who CANNOT wait. Probably why they have cash available, they'll work damn hard to get results fast and be paid well. No way would the top ten players still be playing if they had to wait 14 days for an xbow. Remove the gem factor, those people will leave super-fast.

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Hey, Im not sure if they would. If we took away the gem factor. If the top 10 players still enjoyed the game and gems were taken away, then they would STILL have the advantage to be top 10 as they still have the most of the limiting factor, time. If their xbows took 14 days to complete it would not deter them, as everyone else's xbows would take 14 days also. The fact they have more time to play means they could farm more, upgrade quicker, and still be on a higher curve than everyone else.

Again Im not pro gem, i just don't have any problems with they system, i see the pricing model as fair to the general public, and the only way gem prices will get slashed is when the games starts to loose its player base or an external factor like market regulations or competition games being release. But right now its still definitely in the growth stage so i cant see it happening any time soon.

Hang on. The OP states people who spend money on a game are schmucks. Yet, he tells us he has spent around 200£ on gems. I sense a disturbance in the force here!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by conorbear2

Hang on. The OP states people who spend money on a game are schmucks. Yet, he tells us he has spent around 200£ on gems. I sense a disturbance in the force here!

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Got the feeling you skimmed the thread and have actually no idea what my points are. A few others have fallen into a similar trap.

You guys know who's the winner? The non-gemmers.

They get to have a good night rest, have more money to put food on the table and eat at fancy restaurants and buy other cool stuff (like console games) more often.

The gemmers starve themselves for e-glory and e-pride with lack of sleep trying to raid constantly for cups. If they lose a defense battle, they have to waste 5 or more hours trying to get back what they lost.

So who exactly is suffering here guys?

Well SC is a business and by definition needs to make money or they're not doing it right!

I just wonder what their profit margins are. They obviously need to pay their software developers and keep their servers up, after those expenses how are their profits? Are they larger than the HUGE profit margins a fast food restaurant makes off soft drinks, charging over a dollar for something that costs pennies? Do people complain about that?

Nobody stays on top forever. The top 10 companies in the world today are not the same top ten from 10 years ago. SC should make money now while they are popular, because it will inevitably not last forever...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RegaliaRemix

You guys know who's the winner? The non-gemmers.

They get to have a good night rest, have more money to put food on the table and eat at fancy restaurants and buy other cool stuff (like console games) more often.

The gemmers starve themselves for e-glory and e-pride with lack of sleep trying to raid constantly for cups. If they lose a defense battle, they have to waste 5 or more hours trying to get back what they lost.

So who exactly is suffering here guys?

---

...hmmmm...except for the gemmers with large disposable incomes...gems are like pennies:p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CHINOBEER

Well SC is a business and by definition needs to make money or they're not doing it right!

I just wonder what their profit margins are. They obviously need to pay their software developers and keep their servers up, after those expenses how are their profits? Are they larger than the HUGE profit margins a fast food restaurant makes off soft drinks, charging over a dollar for something that costs pennies? Do people complain about that?

Nobody stays on top forever. The top 10 companies in the world today are not the same top ten from 10 years ago. SC should make money now while they are popular, because it will inevitably not last forever...

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Well if that article a few weeks back is correct, I don't think any app developing company can spend $500,000 per day (which is what the article claims SC makes PER DAY)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Circa2012

Well if that article a few weeks back is correct, I don't think any app developing company can spend $500,000 per day (which is what the article claims SC makes PER DAY)

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ok but if they spend 100k a day for salaries and servers then the profit margin of a soft drink is larger becasue it cost between 5 to 10 cents and they charge over a dollar.

To the OP,

I'm not sure how many presentations you've given, but you would certainly bore the dark elixir out of your audience without getting the point more promptly.

1. Gems allow players to speed up certain aspects of the game and cost real life money. Since the game is free-to-play, it is up to the end-user to decide whether or not they want the added benefit of buying gems.

That's it.

Nothing more to say about gems-ever.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hb808

To the OP,

I'm not sure how many presentations you've given, but you would certainly bore the dark elixir out of your audience without getting the point more promptly.

1. Gems allow players to speed up certain aspects of the game and cost real life money. Since the game is free-to-play, it is up to the end-user to decide whether or not they want the added benefit of buying gems.

That's it.

Nothing more to say about gems-ever.

---

The idea of the post was to provide an exhaustive argument against the threads that constantly pop up on the forums about gems. Where as your statement is concise it is very limited in the arguments in can stand against. Yes i give presentations and I don't approach them with the same method I do to writing on a forum about a game...

Thank goodness you showed up though, I really don't know what i would of done without your snippets of wisdom and lessons in summary.

Also usefull to note, not everyone on the forum has ADHD, and believe it or not some people just enjoy a decently constructed post every now and then that takes longer than 15 seconds to read.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sanjakimo

The idea of the post was to provide an exhaustive argument against the threads that constantly pop up on the forums about gems. Where as your statement is concise it is very limited in the arguments in can stand against. Yes i give presentations and believe it or not i don't approach it with the same method i do to writing on a forum about a game...

Thank goodness you showed up, I really don't know what i would of done without your snippets of wisdom and lessons in summary.

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There is no need to argue. People will always whine about something when it's not in their favor. Those people who whine about gems are going to keep doing it regardless of you making an argument favoring gems.

And it's not like gemmers get exclusive stuff..... all the stuff in the game is achievable whether you gem or not. This is what makes SC unique. They don't put overpowered stuff in their games that only paying customers can have because everything can be acquired in the game in due time. If you got the resolve and the patience to wait out your upgrades and raid constantly, you can accomplish a lot of stuff in the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Illustris

@OP,

1. Let's see how the new update shakes up the gemming issue... the trophy leagues, while introducing more "free loot" into the CoC eco-system, may also incentivize more people to trophy chase, gem for troops, etc, etc. We shall see, but I for one, am afraid, very afraid, for the temperature of these beloved forums soon...

2. I am often accused of being a verbose dictator, and after your post, I humbly say, forget Corugi, we need you instead. You should see our clan chat, everyone is writing paragraphs and paragraphs, where a simply "TY" would suffice. Wink.

3. If you wrote all that on an iPad, I am really, really impressed :)


Illustris, BTW, there are a few, very, very important free things you can only get with gems (e.g., Mighty Statue, Pirate Flag, etc), just a tidbit, given your comments

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1. Hehe yeah the forums might be a little colourful when the update hits. I'm definitely looking forward to the new content myself.

2. Haha know I can get a bit wordy, but i enjoyed writing it. Where as i know I'm telling some people how to suck eggs, I just wanted to make sure I was giving enough perspectives for those that it was somewhat helpful for.

3. Hehe don't be silly! I wrote it on my phone.

As for the unattainable objects. You could still get any of those objects completely free of charge using either a combination of the Tutorial gems, the 1250 trophy achievement or just having an unrelenting discrimination against rocks and trees. The statement of being entirely free still holds! :).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RegaliaRemix

You guys know who's the winner? The non-gemmers.

They get to have a good night rest, have more money to put food on the table and eat at fancy restaurants and buy other cool stuff (like console games) more often.

The gemmers starve themselves for e-glory and e-pride with lack of sleep trying to raid constantly for cups. If they lose a defense battle, they have to waste 5 or more hours trying to get back what they lost.

So who exactly is suffering here guys?

---

Well I'm a gemmer and I'm currently have around 3400 cups and I must say u guys are so sad to complain like this without us there is no game and if your jealous to get a better job where u can afford to play at our level. And before I get a smart response from someone about me having no life I have a job where I can set my iPad on my desk and search for good battles all day while I do my work and also spend more then most of u immature children get in your allowance for a year on a game and still afford to live in my big house and drive my nice truck. So instead of hating be gratefull u get to play such a fun game and are not required to spend money especially since most of u don't have any to spend.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sanjakimo

Got the feeling you skimmed the thread and have actually no idea what my points are. A few others have fallen into a similar trap.

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You ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ you be settin' traps fo me you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥! Seriously, I read the post. Who do you think I am, some no-life thread skimmer?

So, you say SC should lower gems prices so more people will buy. Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm never wrong) but that will help Supercell. But, lower gems means the players are helped out. Which side are you on? The player's or Supercell's? I think you want to make it look like you want to side with SC, to make life better for you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by conorbear2

So, you say SC should lower gems prices so more people will buy. Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm never wrong) but that will help Supercell. But, lower gems means the players are helped out. Which side are you on? The player's or Supercell's? I think you want to make it look like you want to side with SC, to make life better for you.

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Haha, got a feeling you're........Bear baiting me here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cajunthrilla

Well I'm a gemmer and I'm currently have around 3400 cups and I must say u guys are so sad to complain like this without us there is no game and if your jealous to get a better job where u can afford to play at our level. And before I get a smart response from someone about me having no life I have a job where I can set my iPad on my desk and search for good battles all day while I do my work and also spend more then most of u immature children get in your allowance for a year on a game and still afford to live in my big house and drive my nice truck. So instead of hating be gratefull u get to play such a fun game and are not required to spend money especially since most of u don't have any to spend.

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Seems butthurt. Did I hit a nerve? Or are you finally realizing that spending gems in this game doesn't give you enough advantage over freebie players?

I think you're addressing the wrong person. I'm a business owner with a decent salary myself but I don't feel the need to waste my money to gain superiority in an online game. Pretty much anyone can put their iPad on their desk and stay online all day and farm trophies the hard way but obviously most are resourceful people who also deal more with in real life stuff than wasting time on Clash of Clans.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sanjakimo

Haha, got a feeling you're........Bear baiting me here.

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Hope you like steak...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RegaliaRemix

Seems butthurt. Did I hit a nerve? Or are you finally realizing that spending gems in this game doesn't give you enough advantage over freebie players?

I think you're addressing the wrong person. I'm a business owner with a decent salary myself but I don't feel the need to waste my money to gain superiority in an online game. Pretty much anyone can put their iPad on their desk and stay online all day and farm trophies the hard way but obviously most are resourceful people who also deal more with in real life stuff than wasting time on Clash of Clans.

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Not but hurt at all I just don't see why people cry about how a grown person who works for there money chooses to spend it, I work 50 hours a week and I'm the boss so I have a lot of down time at work doing paperwork and such so If I choose to grind battles while doing such its my choice. Also if I choose to spend money to max my base out that's also my choice and just because others choose not to spend money because they either can't or just don't want to that is also there choice the game is free to play not free to dominate and even if I were to blow 5k on this game and 6 months from now quit why should that bother anyone else if it dosent bother me so grow up people and go play your game however u choose to and don't expect to play this game or any other game out there and dominate at it unless u wanna invest time and money

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cajunthrilla

Not but hurt at all I just don't see why people cry about how a grown person who works for there money chooses to spend it, I work 50 hours a week and I'm the boss so I have a lot of down time at work doing paperwork and such so If I choose to grind battles while doing such its my choice. Also if I choose to spend money to max my base out that's also my choice and just because others choose not to spend money because they either can't or just don't want to that is also there choice the game is free to play not free to dominate and even if I were to blow 5k on this game and 6 months from now quit why should that bother anyone else if it dosent bother me so grow up people and go play your game however u choose to and don't expect to play this game or any other game out there and dominate at it unless u wanna invest time and money

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So you are basically angry/bothered by whiners whining about how gemmers gem their way in the game?

Why bother wasting your effort and making yourself upset lol, just ignore them, as every other adults would do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Junliang

So you are basically angry/bothered by whiners whining about how gemmers gem their way in the game?

Why bother wasting your effort and making yourself upset lol, just ignore them, as every other adults would do.

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I would guess no more than 10% of the adult population ignores people that criticize the way they do something. It's probably closer to 5%.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rondoblows

I would guess no more than 10% of the adult population ignores people that criticize the way they do something. It's probably closer to 5%.

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Then where is this 95% of the adults of the coc population you speak of?
Probably yawning at another of such thread and minding their own business.
They have more impt things to do than arguing with strangers on the internet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Junliang

Then where is this 95% of the adults of the coc population you speak of?
Probably yawning at another of such thread and minding their own business.
They have more impt things to do than arguing with strangers on the internet.

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You and I are in this thread not minding our own business for starters. I don't read every thread, but I don't see many people from the top 100 on the forum. How many do you think have read this thread? Cajunthriller was the only one to make a post, but that doesn't mean others weren't bothered by it.

I think i agreed especially with your last point , firstly anyone does with their money what they want , some may like a nice diner instead of spending it on a game , others like a pizza and some good ol' gems hahaha :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cajunthrilla

Well I'm a gemmer and I'm currently have around 3400 cups and I must say u guys are so sad to complain like this without us there is no game and if your jealous to get a better job where u can afford to play at our level. And before I get a smart response from someone about me having no life I have a job where I can set my iPad on my desk and search for good battles all day while I do my work and also spend more then most of u immature children get in your allowance for a year on a game and still afford to live in my big house and drive my nice truck. So instead of hating be gratefull u get to play such a fun game and are not required to spend money especially since most of u don't have any to spend.

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Oh you perfectly fit my category :cool:


To compete with you about what? who will be the greatest no lifer? No, thanks i will pass :)


I ignore your comment about immature children, with only just saying addiction is a mental illness.

(People nowadays lack education and manners)






And my "last" post:

I have nothing with gemmers, trophy hunters, people who devote their life in a game,.... you name it....


My problem is that the game as it is now, has not improved as much as i want or would like.... and i have seen several updates till now....


It sticks to the usual Gem Monthly Updates with no real game improvements for the minority of people....


Remember above 3000 trophies, there are only 1000 or so people in all over the world only.....



Nice Supercell Keep Up lol....





@Jun i have no interest in arguing with anyone on the net, educated conversations never hurt anyone really...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sanjakimo

The "problems"
Ok so lets see what the primary gripes seem to be about gems:
1. They are too expensive Supercell are greedy and should reduce the price of them, they would get more customers and make more money!! Or it should be a paid for app that would be fairer with a one off price.
2. Its unfair, people who pay get an advantage over those who choose not to pay.
3. It masks player skill so the "most skilled" or "best" players don't get the recognition they deserve!
4. Gems are not anything material, your are paying money for nothing only a Schmuck would do that!

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My take...
1) Tats debatable ... If you have too high of a gems price ... It won't work... if it's too low, it won't be profitable... Something in between is wat works. It's difficult to say tat if they reduce the price it will net them more money.
2) It's unfair in the sense tat it does not create a level playing field.
3) Agreed... But also note tat since some ppl have been playing this game earlier than others, this will always be the case with or without the gems.
4) Haha... tat is true...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smukund

My take...
1) Tats debatable ... If you have too high of a gems price ... It won't work... if it's too low, it won't be profitable... Something in between is wat works. It's difficult to say tat if they reduce the price it will net them more money.
2) It's unfair in the sense tat it does not create a level playing field.
3) Agreed... But also note tat since some ppl have been playing this game earlier than others, this will always be the case with or without the gems.
4) Haha... tat is true...

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skimmed the thread before posting? (Join the ever increasing club don't worry) You alley oop'd yorself on number 4.

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Originally Posted by cajunthrilla

Not but hurt at all I just don't see why people cry about how a grown person who works for there money chooses to spend it, I work 50 hours a week and I'm the boss so I have a lot of down time at work doing paperwork and such so If I choose to grind battles while doing such its my choice. Also if I choose to spend money to max my base out that's also my choice and just because others choose not to spend money because they either can't or just don't want to that is also there choice the game is free to play not free to dominate and even if I were to blow 5k on this game and 6 months from now quit why should that bother anyone else if it dosent bother me so grow up people and go play your game however u choose to and don't expect to play this game or any other game out there and dominate at it unless u wanna invest time and money

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Perhaps some time spent on punctuation would help a bit, too.
Only kidding. No, really.

I'm thinking lots of players aren't bothered how one chooses to play, gems or not. I still monopoly, and my friends and I have weirded the rules out of that over the years. It's great that a guy with a good job and life still gets fun from playing a silly game; never lose that part of yourself, my friend.

This is hypocritical, because if you want to make gems cheaper, would this not just make more people buy MORE gems, which would also make more players into gemers, so why would you not make them more expensive, so less people would buy them?

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Originally Posted by harrydre

This is hypocritical, because if you want to make gems cheaper, would this not just make more people buy MORE gems, which would also make more players into gemers, so why would you not make them more expensive, so less people would buy them?

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Good point, the principals of economic elasticity vs Supply And demand! Also, re-read post, and welcome to skimmers club, your badge should arrive through the post in the next 7 - 10 working days.

Couldn't be bothered to read through the whole thing. But I think the whole idea of this thread is to try make sc reduce prices of gems ? Well here's what I think, first of all people that are buying gems are obviously spending "their" money.(don't really care how they've got it). And how have they got that MUCH money? Rich parents? High salary jobs? No ♥♥♥♥. And why haven't you got that much money to spend on a game? Well here's some clues, you weren't lucky to born under a rich family, couldn't get a good job because you wasted too much time while your in college. Or lastly your a person that who just don't think it's worth while to spend money on a game. So I suggest that you either pay for the full amount or stop whining like a little ♥♥♥♥♥♥ :) Not fair for those who's already spent ♥♥♥♥load money on gems, then the next thing they realise that the gem prices has been reduced.


btw there's no such a thing as being greedy, it's just their way to earn money. If you were clever enough go make your own game and set your prices :)

@OP

non-frequent gemmers are behind 3 walls, farming time, upgrading time and due to this a trophy limit. Since DE troops have been implemented, non-gemmers are behind another wall... which is over 360 days of upgrade time high. Needs to be that high? I don't think so.

Supercell is earning twice on their model which is very clever as you get charged for the same thing twice. (building needs resources and upgrade time) Is it therefore really necessary to increase upgrade times in a fashion that soon, to have a fully developed TH10 (which may or may not come soon) it would take a non-gemmer or... partially gemmer with 5 builders over 3-4 years to build? Isn't it reasonable to justify lower upgrade times with people simply not even starting with the game as they won't finish it until they either spend tons of money or tons of time?

We are still on a climbing trip and so far didn't reach the peak but it will come nevertheless, it's a fact and Supercell would do good to not risk that a major amount of people takes the shortest ride downhill as soon as we reach the peak.

Even hardcore farmer can farm only so much. Maybe it would be a good thought that gems aren't only available by chopping off trees or money but "farming" or "trophy-hunting" efforts?!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PololoP

@OP

non-frequent gemmers are behind 3 walls, farming time, upgrading time and due to this a trophy limit. Since DE troops have been implemented, non-gemmers are behind another wall... which is over 360 days of upgrade time high. Needs to be that high? I don't think so.

Supercell is earning twice on their model which is very clever as you get charged for the same thing twice. (building needs resources and upgrade time) Is it therefore really necessary to increase upgrade times in a fashion that soon, to have a fully developed TH10 (which may or may not come soon) it would take a non-gemmer or... partially gemmer with 5 builders over 3-4 years to build? Isn't it reasonable to justify lower upgrade times with people simply not even starting with the game as they won't finish it until they either spend tons of money or tons of time?

We are still on a climbing trip and so far didn't reach the peak but it will come nevertheless, it's a fact and Supercell would do good to not risk that a major amount of people takes the shortest ride downhill as soon as we reach the peak.

Even hardcore farmer can farm only so much. Maybe it would be a good thought that gems aren't only available by chopping off trees or money but "farming" or "trophy-hunting" efforts?!

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Some great points, this is purely my opinion im not trying to discount anyone.

1. Ok so the 3 walls. I technically dont believe it to be so but lets have a look. Lets run an idealistic scenario. We have 5 builders on the go with staggered finish times (or 4 and 1 ready for walls, or 3 etc). While this upgrade time is taking place, I can be farming my resources for my next upgrade. As long as I am "skillfully efficient" AND have the time to play the only bottleneck constraining me is the upgrade time, that is all. As for the trophys, its not neccacerily a wall and more of an invisible ceiling. The longer i play, the more my base develops, the more my army develops and in turn the higher the invisible ceiling becomes. This relationship is also exponential and not linear, as is exactly the same with the upgrade times. It Starts out short and sweet so players can achieve significant gains in cups or development when they first play, but the deeper you get into the woods the thicker the woods become, so in turn it takes you longer and longer to progress further. This is basically the fundamentals of the model (Ill touch more on this in the second paragraph concerning earnings). As for the DE troops with a 360 day sum upgrade time, where as increased upgrade times as your progress are vital for the models stability in an economic sense in my opinion, i would agree with you. For the value of those troops (only semi viable unit atm imo is the minion if we are talking pound for pound value) the 360 day upgrade time is too steep and should be reduced, as from a purely subjective opinion i think its going to alienate more customers than encorporate, but i dont have SC's stats so i could just be plain wrong. Also it wont alienate enough people to cause negative growth it will just slow groth by a fraction of a percentage, again highly speculative on my behalf.

It also comes down to player goals, some players goals is to be the best and top of the leaderboards. Dont start quoting my figures people its just point of referance stuff. So to be top 100 it would put a player into the top 0.01% of the playerbase, to be top 10 would put the player into the top 0.001% of the player base. You see why I dont understand the why i cant compete for free argument? It's just not that big of an issue for most people....

If the players goal is just to farm and enjoy the game (the most consistent but not neccacerily the most proffitable player). Then thesewalls have 0 effect. As long as they have things to do in the game they will keep playing, and thats the point of the time based models, more time playing, more gem purchases over time. So on andso forth. Again there is all sorts of intricasies to player driven behaviour.
(Also jsut a side note, we dont have sc stats so we cant really quantify "none frequent donators". This is why i have left that point alone")

2. Again to my first point, not neccacerily the case as with your time estimations. Supercell wantsto keep you playing weather you are a big purchaser or small, more game time, more purchases. As the the actual ins and outs of upgrade times etc, supercell has the algorithms incant really comment. But my hunch is they arent daft ;).

3. Peak implies that is everyones end goal, its just not the case.

4. Yep theycertainly could impliment ways for the player to gain more gems via the game without paying. BUT i highly doubt they will. For one they will have finely balanced their pricing model, secondly, ok so lets bare in mind every gem they give away is basicslly, forlack of a better analogy, giving away money. So even the slightest % chance to gain additional gems via famring or cups could cause monumental imbalances. Work out the average amount the everydayjoe would earn in his/her daily play time. Again this isnt concrete just an example. One gem roughly = 0.6 pence in pound sterling when bought from the £2.99 package. Say the average person earns 5 bonus gems a day with the new method. Thats 3 pence worth of gems. Now multiply that by 1 000 000 and then divide by 100. Thats a potentiol loss of earnings of £30 000 a day.......

again lets do minimum maths folks, short fire way to alienate people. If you disagree please respond with words!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mattyy123

Couldn't be bothered to read through the whole thing. But I think the whole idea of this thread is to try make sc reduce prices of gems ? Well here's what I think, first of all people that are buying gems are obviously spending "their" money.(don't really care how they've got it). And how have they got that MUCH money? Rich parents? High salary jobs? No ♥♥♥♥. And why haven't you got that much money to spend on a game? Well here's some clues, you weren't lucky to born under a rich family, couldn't get a good job because you wasted too much time while your in college. Or lastly your a person that who just don't think it's worth while to spend money on a game. So I suggest that you either pay for the full amount or stop whining like a little ♥♥♥♥♥♥ :) Not fair for those who's already spent ♥♥♥♥load money on gems, then the next thing they realise that the gem prices has been reduced.


btw there's no such a thing as being greedy, it's just their way to earn money. If you were clever enough go make your own game and set your prices :)

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Ok seriously getting bored with skimmers, i wasn't even going to bother responding to you until you started trying to get personal. So lets begin, THAT IS NOT WHAT THE THREAD IS ABOUT AT ALL. And you have a lot of assumptions too. The fact you are laying these assumptions on me and the public as a whole when in fact you haven't even read my thread, you do realise this just highlights your own ignorance. Also the patronising little pat on the back smiles you give yourself when you think you have said something clever just makes you look even more stupid. Somehow.

If they reduce the price gems now, there will be more cry babies whining about why they didn't get gem discounts in the past and they will easily outnumber the people celebrating about the discounts.

Nice essay.

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Originally Posted by Sanjakimo

The idea of the post was to provide an exhaustive argument against the threads that constantly pop up on the forums about gems...

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And....if you would've done any amount of research (i.e. the search bar) you would've come to the quick conclusion that this exhaustive bellicose of yours is pointless as it has been mentioned ad nauseum redundantly.

Please respond like it is 2012.

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Originally Posted by hb808

And....if you would've done any amount of research (i.e. the search bar) you would've come to the quick conclusion that this exhaustive bellicose of yours is pointless as it has been mentioned ad nauseum redundantly.

Please respond like it is 2012.

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Ah i see the problem, You see what you are doing is you are stating your opinin as if it is definitive fact, in the hope that it adds more weight to it given your generally obtuse stance that long posts conglomerating scattered information are useless. This is incorrect and not a useful strategy to base a a friendly debate. In my opinion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sanjakimo

Ah i see the problem, You see what you are doing is you are stating your opinin as if it is definitive fact, in the hope that it adds more weight to it given your generally obtuse stance that long posts conglomerating scattered information are useless. This is incorrect and not a useful strategy to base a a friendly debate. In my opinion.

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No different than you just less words.

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Originally Posted by hb808

No different than you just less words.

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Also completely incorrect I try and qualify all my statements as opinion as best i can for 2 reasons. Firstly if i am trying to convey something I try and approach it objectively but still show my feelings on the subject, and secondly,people aren't stupid so instead of trying to lead a reader in a similar manner as yourself in your previous comment, being clear on the perspective prevents venomous backlash.
When loosing an argument you started for no reason apart from trying to flex those forum muscles, resort to just making untrue statements? At least you didn't start correcting my grammar and spelling, of which there are plenty of mistakes. I hope that wasn't too many words for you.

PS. Im done wasting time with you now, appreciated the free bump you gave to the thread you dislike so much

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sanjakimo

Also completely incorrect I try and qualify all my statements as opinion as best i can for 2 reasons. Firstly if i am trying to convey something I try and approach it objectively but still show my feelings on the subject, and secondly,people aren't stupid so instead of trying to lead a reader in a similar manner as yourself in your previous comment being clear on the perspective prevents venomous backlash.
When loosing an argument you started for no reason apart from trying to flex those forum muscles, resort to just making untrue statements? At least you didn't start correcting my grammar and spelling, of which there are plenty of mistakes. I hope that wasn't too many words for you.

PS. Im done wasting time with you now, appreciated the free bump you gave to the thread you dislike so much

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No, it is correct. There are definitely less words here. Still an opinion.

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Originally Posted by Sanjakimo

Edit: I realise I did not say what the purpose of this post was for, after another "Gems are unfair post" today, I decided to try and create a post to stop these threads from popping up. Somewhere for people to reference, if, in the name of all that is good MORE gem whine threads appear. Also i know its a long post so if your going to skim it and comment PLEASE at least know the context of my post.

Hey guys I am writing this as I go along but I can feel it brewing and It's going to be a long one. Just a heads up.

First of all i would like to establish I have spent money on gems in the past, probably around £200 or so worth ranging from a single £70 pound purchases to get a few upgrades I DECIDED I didn't want to wait for (Heros update), but mostly on the £2.99 packages for some cheap army raiding gems.
Ok so first off what were my reasons for purchasing gems? Well first of all, i really enjoy the game. I love the style they took to the artwork, I also love the simple yet deep mechanics and just overall concept of the game. I love the fact it's on my iPad or phone and is highly portable for me to pick up and play anywhere when i get 5-10 minutes or if i want to if i get some time to myself I can pop some movies on or a good TV series sit in for a few hours and raid and chat my socks off! I also work away on residential for good portions of my week, and you guessed it No WiFi (its in the deep countryside). So purchasing allows me to make a few tweaks here and there so I can stay on curve for MY goals. But lastly and the most Important reason, It's my disposable income and I can choose to spend this portion of my income however I please.

The "problems"
Ok so lets see what the primary gripes seem to be about gems:
1. They are too expensive Supercell are greedy and should reduce the price of them, they would get more customers and make more money!! Or it should be a paid for app that would be fairer with a one off price.
2. Its unfair, people who pay get an advantage over those who choose not to pay.
3. It masks player skill so the "most skilled" or "best" players don't get the recognition they deserve!
4. Gems are not anything material, your are paying money for nothing only a Schmuck would do that!

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1. So lets start with the first point. SC pricing is wrong or unfair. I live in England so the pricing scheme I will reference too will be in pounds sterling. Lets look at the options we have to purchase.

£2.99 - 500 gems
£6.99 - 1 200 gems
£13.99 - 2 500 gems
£34.99 - 6 500 gems
£69.99 - 14 000

So first of all you can see, there is pretty much a pricing option available to ANYONE who is playing this game. If you have an Apple iPad or iPhone you are going to be in the demographic that can afford to spend a little bit if you so choose to. We have the low end purchase option that's great for the kids if their parents give them an apple allowance each week or a bit of pocket money, a good way in fact to teach them value for money and yes, PATIENCE!
Then we have the mid range of pricing for the teenagers / adolescents with part time jobs and study commitments.
And last but not least you have the larger purchases generally aimed towards the working individual If they so choose to spend their money this way.
Even not based on a demographic the pricing options are so flexible it really is up to you what you spend on the game. Sure there is a discount on larger numbers of gems to encourage sales but that's standard business 101.

So, "Greedy" SC should lower their prices so more people should buy gems and in turn they make more money. The fact they are making ($600 000 - $1 000 000 a day, again I just saw this figure on the forums its more just a point of reference so please don't quote as an accurate statistic) SHOWS that their pricing system is fair and being fully utilized by it's audience. Also to bear in mind is that, not at any point does it force you to, THIS IS A FREE GAME (and a high quality one in both concept and design in my opinion).
SC also has to cover its costs (including the straight up 30% apple takes from any IAP) and yep you got it, make money!? How dare they.

So after SC have covered all their staffing costs, keep consistently paying the upkeep for their server costs for its million or so users, payed off the backlog of debt accumulated developing the game before it went Live and a whole host of other overheads that most people don't even comprehend. AS WELL as consistently, tweaking game play balances and adding additional content to this FREE game. They get to make a bit of money!

For example say you or I chose to start up a cupcake business offering an assortment of cupcakes at different prices. Our cupcakes are so well baked, and so colorfully and individually designed that the general public love them, and before we know it there is a huge demand for our cupcakes. So we take on more staff, a new premises and expand the business out slowly and start adding other products to our range to meet the increased demand and going off the feedback that our already loyal customers are giving us.
Before we know it we're multi-million pound enterprise and our product was so strong and our business acumen so well implemented its netting us great rewards for our determination, diligence and perseverance in what is an increasingly aggressive economic climate. But now we stop right? Because were making so much money we should stop, its not fair. We check our cupcake forums and a minuscule percentage of people who are buying our product are moaning we make too much money.
I think everyone gets the idea.
Personally i hope the CEO of SC has bought himself a great big boat, and a holiday home for him and his family to enjoy now that his idea that I am enjoying so much is proving fruitful.
(that was the big one folks)


2. Its Unfair. People who pay get an advantage over those who don't.

Firstly there is not a single thing in the game that cannot be obtained free of charge. No premium currency products, nothing. All it saves is time. So, the advantage of having a better base? Better troops?.....compared to who? you?

OK so tomorrow you get given 1 000 000 gems, you max your walls, troops, hero's the WORKS. You have everything you ever dreamed of. Now what?
So lets think, what is "fair"? the person who spends £10 on gems a month so that in between his/her work and family commitments they can still enjoy the game and get personal reward to playing, even though they have a much smaller window in which to play the game. Or the 15 (again not stereotyping just for EG purposes) year old kid on his summer holidays who gets 8 weeks of free time, in which he can raid every hour he so chooses to all day every day. No work commitments, no family commitments.
So to really make it an even playing field lets take out gems completely, and limit EVERYONE'S play time to 1 hour as most people could accommodate this. But 1 hour in a single sitting wouldn't work because of timezone differentials, so lets stagger it to 2 1/2 hours slots each day so that anyone anywhere at least gets there 1/2 hour play and its even playing field. Also new players that start have a new system in place. The game averages the build values of every single base currently in the game, and provides the new player with the mean cost of a base in resources, and lets them design a base to that standard. Again just to make sure its super fair. Sounds like a fun game now right?

3. It lest the lesser skilled players get to the top by (paying to win) so the actual skillful players don't get recognized.

First of all, lets get a grip folks. The game involves placing troops and then watching how they react and occasionally reacting with the odd spell or two. When it comes to a mechanical skill level, the skill cap is somewhat low in this game. I'm not saying their aren't subtle nuances to it or there is no skill at all, but you are not tap strafing to avoid bullet recoil while dodging shots, or a flick 180 jump pad long range head shot with a rail gun, You aren't conducting 300+ APM (actions per minute) strategies with an enormous army that you control every single unit independently, again you get the gist. This lower skill cap however is for 2 reasons, SC market is on the tablet and the tablet has a sole Input method of tapping. As of right now you are never going to get the skill cap that the likes of a mouse and keyboard based game or a console controller based game, period. The low skill cap also makes the game accessible to more people, perfect for the tablet market. Good job SC.
So where is the skill? In my opinion it lies primarily in game knowledge. When to deploy, where to deploy, how and what with to deploy and how to achieve your goals as efficiently as possible; efficiency is the skill. Same with defense, where to place, place what structure with what? So on and so fourth. So i guess my real question to these people who claim this, what do you want to prove and to who? Starcraft is always available if you fancy it.
I personally think the top 10 players will probably have the nigh on best game knowledge if not equivalent to anyone else out there. Also remember that at these levels the players choose to spend a lot on gems to stay competitive as this is their PERSONAL goal, purely based on how competitive it is and they have the disposable income and TIME to do so.
Also remember these types of player are probably funding SC 90% of their income, so they are basically sponsoring the free game you choose to play for you. As far as business is concerned, if you have not payed a dime towards this game, you have not supported development costs, server costs, staffing costs, nothing. Yet you still get to play the same game as those that do however those that choose to pay get things a littler earlier. I just fail to see the big issue, the only issue i see is an entitlement one.

4. People who pay to pay in a games are Schmucks, who would pay for a game, it's not even a material object??

Firstly, i hope you have taken into account all my previous points. So lets get into the "Its not even real" argument. Personally I find this argument so mind numbing and narrow minded but lets go with it.
Personally I don't measure what i spend my money on dependent on weather it is material or otherwise, I measure on cost VS Enjoyment / Enjoyment Duration, these are my personal criteria I'm not saying its right or wrong. So lets work with an example, Ill use an actual example as this is how i see it.

I enjoy CoC, for my money spent so far i have had literally countless hours of fun on this game and it is STILL going to serve me more, being constantly updated and tweaked it is dynamic and evolving.
So I could spend £70 on CoC, Finish a few high level building, Set a high level troop upgrade, pay for resources and upgrade some walls and set some other buildings upgrading, all in all quite a substantial difference to my base. And as my enjoyment comes from just seeing my base develop and grow, this is a long term investment and I get the benefit of this investment for as long as i choose to play the game for.
With this £70 i could by 2 games for my PS3, sure i could probably get a good 80 hours worth of fun out of that £70 if i chose my games correctly, or i could only get only 40 if I disliked one of the games, ore the games completion time was short and had minimal replay value. At least with CoC purchase is a know quantity, and cumulative investment that will serve me for my probably thousands of hours of play time to come.

OR i could spend my £70++ on a night out with friends (which I definitely do don't get me wrong). I get to purchase material alcohol so I am getting something for my money.
As well as a meal to start with, the price starts adding up. Now that has provided me with a good 12 hours of entertainment that i enjoyed. Did i enjoy it more than Coc? Not necessarily, its a different sort of enjoyment. But the bottom line is all I would have to show for that £70 in the morning would be a sore head and not even necessarily the memories of the fun time I had.

So i know I've rambled on and this post isn't very well written I was just trying to get the point across Please just stop whining about it, If gems weren't here, a subscription would HAVE to be. and to make a subscription model work they would have to offer different packages of subscription to appeal to all the price ranges, so there would still be inequalities, as well as re designing the game we already enjoy playing.

Just my 2 cents folks, moral of the story is SC aren't Greedy their clever as they don't push the game to one kind of play type they allow it to be accessible to people of all abilities, ages, play time windows and income levels if they so choose. I know this will never stop the hate on gems, but every time someone spouts of "Greedy" Supercell i cant help but think hypocrite.

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Copy pasted from my mind, how dare you :)

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Originally Posted by Patrick19

Copy pasted from my mind, how dare you :)

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Seriously? Quoting the WHOOOOOLE post.. booooo
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Can I have a summery please?

Ok, loads of people complain about gems and the imbalance it causes. If you think about it though, gems are the only way supercell makes any money out of this game.
If they just removed gems(which they definitely won't), the whole game would have to close as there would be no money coming in through the game. The servers would have to shut and the game would disappear.
if they made the game paid and got rid of gems, think of how many people they would need to buy it to pay for ALL of the servers for the rest of the game's life. They would need to put the price of the game quite high, and, considering how many people already have the game, they would make less profit. On too of that, people who saw it free and didn't download it would be unlikely to buy it if it was paid.

However much you complain, supercell is unlikely to change pricing of gems or what they will do. If you are annoyed that gemmers are getting an unfair advantage, then consider the fact that they are supporting supercell and keeping the game running. Without gemmers, this game would cease to exist, or a subscription would have to be put on the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hamius

Ok, loads of people complain about gems and the imbalance it causes. If you think about it though, gems are the only way supercell makes any money out of this game.
If they just removed gems(which they definitely won't), the whole game would have to close as there would be no money coming in through the game. The servers would have to shut and the game would disappear.
if they made the game paid and got rid of gems, think of how many people they would need to buy it to pay for ALL of the servers for the rest of the game's life. They would need to put the price of the game quite high, and, considering how many people already have the game, they would make less profit. On too of that, people who saw it free and didn't download it would be unlikely to buy it if it was paid.

However much you complain, supercell is unlikely to change pricing of gems or what they will do. If you are annoyed that gemmers are getting an unfair advantage, then consider the fact that they are supporting supercell and keeping the game running. Without gemmers, this game would cease to exist, or a subscription would have to be put on the game.

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Sigh, i give up. I try and put a forward at the top of the post, i make multiple posts throughout the thread reinforcing my viewpoint. Welcome to the Skim a post and have no idea what it says club etc, badge in the post etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hamius

Ok, loads of people complain about gems and the imbalance it causes. If you think about it though, gems are the only way supercell makes any money out of this game.
If they just removed gems(which they definitely won't), the whole game would have to close as there would be no money coming in through the game. The servers would have to shut and the game would disappear.
if they made the game paid and got rid of gems, think of how many people they would need to buy it to pay for ALL of the servers for the rest of the game's life. They would need to put the price of the game quite high, and, considering how many people already have the game, they would make less profit. On too of that, people who saw it free and didn't download it would be unlikely to buy it if it was paid.

However much you complain, supercell is unlikely to change pricing of gems or what they will do. If you are annoyed that gemmers are getting an unfair advantage, then consider the fact that they are supporting supercell and keeping the game running. Without gemmers, this game would cease to exist, or a subscription would have to be put on the game.

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Yup pretty much! As a general rule of thumb a subscription tends to give the first month free to bolster its player base, which means there isn't any cash flow until the second month! So to counteract this the game would of had to have been launched with an initial payment AS WELL as a subscription, to provide the necessary cash flow. Also with the subscription as i discussed earlier. It alleviates the amount the top tier payers would pay, because instead lot what they are spending now in gems, they just pay a platinum subscription monthly, job done. So that costs would actually filter down to us, the every day player, we would pay more, they would pay less. But gems are still so bad right?

subscription will never happen imho, its just the alternative and a point of referance.

First, I HAVE read this entire thread. Just started this game yesterday, came into forums when I got to the point of having to wait for things to upgrade. Paying for gems isn't that big a deal. Like you've said, it's OPTIONAL. I have already put in $5 for gems, wanting buildings and defenses up as much as possible before my startup shield expires. The funny thing about the "lower the cost of gems" argument- who's to say if they did this they wouldn't just require MORE gems for the same result you get now? Instead of paying $5 for 500 gems and needing say 50 gems for a specific task, they might make the price $5 for 1000 but require 120 for this same task. Just my two cents...

Not sure if this was mentioned, as I wasn't bothered to read the whole 10 pages, but 1 British Pound = 1.46 Australian dollars. Now, the Australian pricing for gems should be equivalent to the rest of the world. Lets take the $2.99 package for 500 gems. If Supercell wanted to be fair, the formula would be 2.99 x 1.46, which equates to $4.36 Australian pricing, but no, we get charged $5.50 for 500 gems.

This $1.14 difference in pricing doesn't seem like much, but if you use the conversion on a larger scale, lets take the 14 000 gems package for example. 69.99 (British pounds) x 1.46 = 102.18. The price for 14 000 gems in Australia is in fact $109.99. These amounts of money may not seem too significant, but why should us Australians have to pay more for gems, just because we're in a different part of the world? Every game I've played, us Aussies get ripped off, seems that I can add Clash of Clans to the list.

Thats a very long post indeed, permsonaly i hate the freemium style of games that are running rampant on apple's app store atm. Personaly i see it as a quick money making scheame for said companys. On the matter of players having an advantage, well meh. Thats always been the way , the rich have always had an advantage :D. Personaly for these types of games , id rather pay for individual tweaks (face) looks ect, then paying to speed up my game play or unlocking minor upgrades. Ive paid ten dollers on this game so far , and already belive it to be a waste. But thats my belief, its pretty sad though, to be number one u need to spend tons of cash. Thats criminal.

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Originally Posted by Telescopical

Not sure if this was mentioned, as I wasn't bothered to read the whole 10 pages, but 1 British Pound = 1.46 Australian dollars. Now, the Australian pricing for gems should be equivalent to the rest of the world. Lets take the $2.99 package for 500 gems. If Supercell wanted to be fair, the formula would be 2.99 x 1.46, which equates to $4.36 Australian pricing, but no, we get charged $5.50 for 500 gems.

This $1.14 difference in pricing doesn't seem like much, but if you use the conversion on a larger scale, lets take the 14 000 gems package for example. 69.99 (British pounds) x 1.46 = 102.18. The price for 14 000 gems in Australia is in fact $109.99. These amounts of money may not seem too significant, but why should us Australians have to pay more for gems, just because we're in a different part of the world? Every game I've played, us Aussies get ripped off, seems that I can add Clash of Clans to the list.

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Yup, australia has to pay more for all games, they judge it off apples pricing scheme me thinks

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Originally Posted by Sanjakimo

Yup pretty much! As a general rule of thumb a subscription tends to give the first month free to bolster its player base, which means there isn't any cash flow until the second month! So to counteract this the game would of had to have been launched with an initial payment AS WELL as a subscription, to provide the necessary cash flow. Also with the subscription as i discussed earlier. It alleviates the amount the top tier payers would pay, because instead lot what they are spending now in gems, they just pay a platinum subscription monthly, job done. So that costs would actually filter down to us, the every day player, we would pay more, they would pay less. But gems are still so bad right?

subscription will never happen imho, its just the alternative and a point of referance.

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Hmm . I havent posted in a while due to lack of time.
But i seem to remember u . you were kicked from honour weren't u .Anyways coming back to this senseless thread which i think it is there r some basics here
1.WE ALL PLAY TO HAVE FUN WHETHER WE R GEMMERS OR FARMERS OR YOUR AVERAGE GUY.
2. IF YOU HAVE THE TIME AND THE MONEY AND THE LIBERTY TO SPEND IT THEN WHY NOT ? AS LONG AS YOU HAVE FUN HERE . now i know everyone will have a different opinion here. But basically 3 players exist 1.Gemmers 2. Farmers 3.The average who gem a little.
Ok i dont understand now though why the BIG DEBATE . NO ONE HAS THE TIME TO READ IT AND IT WONT REACH THE AVERAGE CLASHER they r just gonna skip the thread . SUPERCELL THE GAME IS PERFECT WE DONT NEED ANY SUBSCRIPTIONS OR TRASH.PERIOD
AND CLASH ON (HOOORAY TO JORGE FOR CRUSHING VIZIA TOO LOL):cool:

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Originally Posted by RiDiculous

Hmm . I havent posted in a while due to lack of time.
But i seem to remember u . you were kicked from honour weren't u .Anyways coming back to this senseless thread which i think it is there r some basics here
1.WE ALL PLAY TO HAVE FUN WHETHER WE R GEMMERS OR FARMERS OR YOUR AVERAGE GUY.
2. IF YOU HAVE THE TIME AND THE MONEY AND THE LIBERTY TO SPEND IT THEN WHY NOT ? AS LONG AS YOU HAVE FUN HERE . now i know everyone will have a different opinion here. But basically 3 players exist 1.Gemmers 2. Farmers 3.The average who gem a little.
Ok i dont understand now though why the BIG DEBATE . NO ONE HAS THE TIME TO READ IT AND IT WONT REACH THE AVERAGE CLASHER they r just gonna skip the thread . SUPERCELL THE GAME IS PERFECT WE DONT NEED ANY SUBSCRIPTIONS OR TRASH.PERIOD
AND CLASH ON (HOOORAY TO JORGE FOR CRUSHING VIZIA TOO LOL):cool:

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Hmm, I assume this "Lack of Time" has to do with all the colouring in you are busy doing. But lets begin, nope I left Honour as myself and mo clashed and probably still do, also I was sick of getting harassed to donate and be more active while i was unwell, as i have a medical condition. So i left and went to Pride where i am much happier, and my Donations are 600+ a week (not the best not the worst) and my trophy are at 2.2K (not the best not the worst). Also we are apart of the same clan family yet you feel out necessary to come and try and call me out for no reason and again without reading the post or understanding any of its context.
PS. You caps lock seems to be intermittently broken.
Also. READ MY POST before commenting you smug skim reading ADHD poster child.


Seems I get a slur champaign for NOT OPPOSING GEMS.

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Originally Posted by Telescopical

Not sure if this was mentioned, as I wasn't bothered to read the whole 10 pages, but 1 British Pound = 1.46 Australian dollars. Now, the Australian pricing for gems should be equivalent to the rest of the world. Lets take the $2.99 package for 500 gems. If Supercell wanted to be fair, the formula would be 2.99 x 1.46, which equates to $4.36 Australian pricing, but no, we get charged $5.50 for 500 gems.

This $1.14 difference in pricing doesn't seem like much, but if you use the conversion on a larger scale, lets take the 14 000 gems package for example. 69.99 (British pounds) x 1.46 = 102.18. The price for 14 000 gems in Australia is in fact $109.99. These amounts of money may not seem too significant, but why should us Australians have to pay more for gems, just because we're in a different part of the world? Every game I've played, us Aussies get ripped off, seems that I can add Clash of Clans to the list.

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I don't know SC's reasoning and its a good point. But i could be to do with server costs and Australia not being centralised, a lot of people put their servers in Paris to serve Europe etc as it is central. The company may have some other expenditures to serve Australia. And as you said, you notice this with a lot of games it could just be a bit of bad luck on the geographical lottery.

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Originally Posted by Telescopical

Not sure if this was mentioned, as I wasn't bothered to read the whole 10 pages, but 1 British Pound = 1.46 Australian dollars. Now, the Australian pricing for gems should be equivalent to the rest of the world. Lets take the $2.99 package for 500 gems. If Supercell wanted to be fair, the formula would be 2.99 x 1.46, which equates to $4.36 Australian pricing, but no, we get charged $5.50 for 500 gems.

This $1.14 difference in pricing doesn't seem like much, but if you use the conversion on a larger scale, lets take the 14 000 gems package for example. 69.99 (British pounds) x 1.46 = 102.18. The price for 14 000 gems in Australia is in fact $109.99. These amounts of money may not seem too significant, but why should us Australians have to pay more for gems, just because we're in a different part of the world? Every game I've played, us Aussies get ripped off, seems that I can add Clash of Clans to the list.

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Yea mate, it's pretty bull ♥♥♥♥ we gotta pay more than the rest of the world, since us Aussie dollars are currently worth more than the American dollar :P heard from a few mates that they'll be fixing up the prices near the end of the year. Hope dats true.