Why ever protect TH? Why penalize for successful defenses? Game flaw

I'm not sure I've seen any real compelling argument to put TH inside just yet.. Top ones were:

• Some barch hits would continue attack to a segment as it's essentially free. I guess this could be true in theory.. I haven't seen this happen to me yet, but this could be dependent on the base setup where even a layer or two deep isn't going to get much resources.. Their time for attacker would be better spent finding another base.
• Going to get 2 starred more by big hitters - probably true, I've given up the one star for free and 50% is going to happen if people go all out. The tradeoff is what percentage of those big hits would have 2 starred anyway vs. being avoided completely by the snipe.

I'm a numbers guy, so we can calculate the pros/cons quantitatively. So, here's my stats - in Masters 1, and I am trophy pushing to Champs (only reason to be here honestly). 29: 1 star snipes. 22 of those for 3 trophy loss or less. 6: 2 stars against me (2 while TH outside, and those hits big enough 2 star happens also). I fiddled with TH inside to gain trophies during push, but I haven't won a single defense in weeks. I know you flamers want to think my base isn't set up well, but please think again (pic below - if you think you spot a huge weakness, let me know).

Based on the numbers sofar, no way those two scenarios outweigh the costs. If others want to start adding in their data, we can actually build a larger more meaningful sample set.

But - at the end of the day, this is flawed. I like the suggestion that TH holds more resources to start preventing this.. Anything else? How can we make a change?

Attachment 55832

Agreed. Only reason I put mine inside, is at the start of a push. Once I'm in a league that I can't successfully defend (consistently), it goes outside. It is nice jumping up 50-100 cups at night when you start pushing from like gold 3/2. I'm giving my TH away once I reach mid crystal though (mid level th9).

Oh, and I'll put it inside if I'm low on loot and trying to gain trophies from attacking, that way I have time to cook a strong army before I get raided. I hate breaking a shield between each raid... Back outside when I'm done raiding.

Ok, here is my log with my townhall inside and the approximately conditions: I am TH8....not maxed, about 70 skull walls...

League / Gold Lost / Elixer Lost / Dark Elixir Lost / Trophy Change / comment
Crystal 2 / 16k / 13k / 84 / +25 /41% / shield, awesome
Gold / 145k / 273k / 381 / -30 /100% / I hate L6 giants....
Gold / 30k / 102k / 0 / +10 /43% / shield, awesome
Gold / 150k / 188 / 1 / -4 /51% / TH9 BARCH
Gold / 120k / 151k / 108 / -37 /100% / Angry TH10 revenge attack with 10 L4 dragons
Gold / 142k / 272k / 112 / -15 /100% / TH9 well executed attack
Gold / 47k / 163k / 72 / -6 / 51% / TH9 attack that should have 100% me


So, out of 7 I had 2 wins to gain 35 trophies and 5 loses for total lose of 604k gold, 859k elixir, 674 de, and I lost 92 trophies. This is over 4 days...

I think league is important, here in Crystal I plan to expose TH...mainly because a revenge attack from someone I beat in Gold will cost me 60 trophies...hoping someone will gobble me up before they get me!

I would also add that during this time period I wasn't trying to accomplish anything (all builders going, lab busy, etc...), I was just having fun. I didn't want to get sniped...if I lost, I wanted to see an epic attack. Sometimes that is a reason to put your townhall inside...just getting sniped is kind of boring...

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Originally Posted by BeerMonkeee

I'm not sure I've seen any real compelling argument to put TH inside just yet.. Top ones were:

• Some barch hits would continue attack to a segment as it's essentially free. I guess this could be true in theory.. I haven't seen this happen to me yet, but this could be dependent on the base setup where even a layer or two deep isn't going to get much resources.. Their time for attacker would be better spent finding another base.
• Going to get 2 starred more by big hitters - probably true, I've given up the one star for free and 50% is going to happen if people go all out. The tradeoff is what percentage of those big hits would have 2 starred anyway vs. being avoided completely by the snipe.

I'm a numbers guy, so we can calculate the pros/cons quantitatively. So, here's my stats - in Masters 1, and I am trophy pushing to Champs (only reason to be here honestly). 29: 1 star snipes. 22 of those for 3 trophy loss or less. 6: 2 stars against me (2 while TH outside, and those hits big enough 2 star happens also). I fiddled with TH inside to gain trophies during push, but I haven't won a single defense in weeks. I know you flamers want to think my base isn't set up well, but please think again (pic below - if you think you spot a huge weakness, let me know).

Based on the numbers sofar, no way those two scenarios outweigh the costs. If others want to start adding in their data, we can actually build a larger more meaningful sample set.

But - at the end of the day, this is flawed. I like the suggestion that TH holds more resources to start preventing this.. Anything else? How can we make a change?

Attachment 55832

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First off, it's not just barchers that will go for the center. Balloonion is more common up here, and I've had a lot of those that would usually just 1-star attempt to go for loot. As for your base, you certainly could be winning defenses, but you have plenty of huge weaknesses. Chief among them is the fact that you have 4 upgrading defenses. Other major problems include your absolutely horrible wall intersections, your boring design that has almost nothing unexpected, and the fact that both your infernos are set to multi. I'm no expert base designer, but fix those problems and you may change your mind about th placement.

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Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood

I don't know how anyone could disagree with any of this.

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I've never agreed more with someone

There are actually some fairly decent points being made by people about why to keep TH inside. However, you are high level players with very specific reasons to do this. The thing that has always shocked me is that 90% or so of players in lower trophy ranges (where the vast majority of players sit) keep their THs inside. This just blows my mind. The only reason I can think of for them to all do this is that SC puts that little message on the load screen that says "make sure to keep your town hall inside to protect your trophies". They must take this to heart and never actually pay attention to how the game mechanics work. Attention to the average player: GET YOUR &#@$%& TH INSIDE YOU IDIOTS!!!

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Originally Posted by MrScribbler

As a th 10 farming in master 2, there are tons of reasons to keep my th inside. The most obvious one is trophies, which to many is the whole point of the game. My base is good enough to win defenses, which helps me keep my trophies up when farming if I string a few bad attacks together, and obviously helps me when pushing. Furthermore, when I'm below 2850, I can log off between attacks (40 minutes, give or take) with my th inside and not get touched.

Putting your th outside has its disadvantages too. The most crucial one is that it does not prevent other people from continuing their attack. Someone who uses GoWiWi or GoWiPe will probably take the 1-star, but balloonion or barch users may well try to get 2. In addition, farmers may try to go for the center and the storages, having already locked up the league bonus with the town hall. Of course, it also hurts your trophies, as there's no guarantee that you will first be found by someone in Champ and only lose 1 trophy as opposed to 10 or 11. Thus, while putting your th outside is often the correct thing to do, it's not always a good idea.

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This was suggested to people that don't have faith in their defenses if you think your defense is good enough, then keep it inside. Clash of clans is generally unbalanced in terms of attacking and defending, as it is not rare but uncommon for most people to win a defense. Also if you put Ruth in the middle then people will get your storages in the process of getting to your townhall if you leave it outside, then the case changes you lose less trophies and lose less loot. Keeping the th in the inside means that you trust your defenses enough to protect your th as well as the loot, and i know for a fact that most people have little faith in their defenses, including me

Agreed. SC needs to look into this area imo.

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Originally Posted by huezard

Agreed. SC needs to look into this area imo.

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Made a thread in the improvement / suggestion forum: http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...rrently-flawed. Please support any change recommendations there as it will have a better chance at being spotted.

Also, while I appreciate feedback on my base setup.. but please let it be valuable. Saying it doesn't work without examples of how to exploit isn't useful. Yes, upgrading defenses.. that's obviously a snapshot, and multi/multi is probably the preferred settings to defend against most attacks. Feel free to argue in a more appropriate thread.

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Originally Posted by BeerMonkeee

Made a thread in the improvement / suggestion forum: http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...rrently-flawed. Please support any change recommendations there as it will have a better chance at being spotted.

Also, while I appreciate feedback on my base setup.. but please let it be valuable. Saying it doesn't work without examples of how to exploit isn't useful. Yes, upgrading defenses.. that's obviously a snapshot, and multi/multi is probably the preferred settings to defend against most attacks. Feel free to argue in a more appropriate thread.

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How to exploit it: GoWiPe. 10 wbs and you've opened up the center, no sweat, absolutely nothing to worry about with pekkas/heroes. 70% and 2-stars are easy, a top attacker might even be able to pick up 3. I can go into more detail, but since you apparently can't even win a defense in masters, just watch your defense replays for ways to exploit it. And I don't know what game you're playing, but multi/multi is heaven for most 2-star attackers.