I see trading ending very abruptly... People are beginning to learn that there are no consequences for scamming and are therefore buying everything they can and not replying or claiming ignorance.. and its going to be happening more and more..
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I see trading ending very abruptly... People are beginning to learn that there are no consequences for scamming and are therefore buying everything they can and not replying or claiming ignorance.. and its going to be happening more and more..
If that happens, it's the new players who will be hurt.
Those of us who have been playing and trading awhile have trusted trade partners we can turn to. But people are going to be reluctant to trade with new players.
I wish SC would create an in-game trade system, like other games have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoothe
Trust is key -- I greatly value my regular trading partners, and have frankly stopped trolling the trading threads. I can trade with my trusted friends and neighbors for what I need now.
One hard rule that usually works for me is "higher level buys first" -- at Lev 83, that is usually me. Anyone at a higher level than I am is most probably NOT a scammer, so I don't mind selling first in that instance.
I have seen more scamming on the FB trading groups than on the SC trading thread. There are many trading groups on FB, but you have to be very careful with them. I steer well clear of the majority of them, and only trade with trusted traders who I have seen are active on the one group I visit.
Agree that a player who won't abide by "higher level trades first" is a red flag.
And while scamming has been going on since trading began, I really think that neighborhoods have made it worse. There's far less accountability with neighborhoods than there is with Facebook or GC. They can change their farm name and you probably won't even be able to recognize them if they are not connected to FB or GC.
I will not trade with anyone via NH. Partly because I like the neighborhood I'm in and it's a hassle to switch, but also because neighborhoods are where the scamsters operate these days.
I agree, I was very wary over trading at first but then I ended up with about 20-25 people I could trust and high levels that even let me go first so I was very appreciative of the trust. Then when someone wanted me to go first who was a few levels under me, I decided to take a chance because I had no problems in the past and I felt bad when I was worried about them. I stuck to the rule with the one guy of lower levels go first and when he refused to go first, we didnt trade but he was actually a good trustworthy trader, so then I took a chance on this one person and got scammed for the first time. And I suppose it was me that started up all the hype about them not doing anything about people getting scammed so I apologize for all the posts in the trading forum about it but I just cannot understand why they would let it happen because they are just encouraging people to scam when they let them get away with it. Well either way, I found out through my trusted friends that the same person is posting on the forums again under a new name of course and I wont say the name because I dont want to get warned again lol but the level is the same, the in game name was changed but the first letter is the same, so when my man went to trade with her/him to investigate more, the stall and town level was the same.. etc.. so we took screenshots of it all and his/her stats too as that is hard to change. But yes she/he keeps changing their facebook account and neighborhood but at least I made it harder for him/her. I dont have proof that I was scammed by this person so I am not sure if the screenshots will help but two other people I know got scammed by her too so I was hoping that if enough people complained about said person it would help but I dont think so. I guess all we can really do is take it amongst ourselves to protect ourselves.. I messaged a lot of people that I trade with an warned them and they trade quite a bit so hopefully word of mouth will help.
I agree, I am now done with trading. I will stick with a few people I have dealt with and that is all. Unfortunately, no matter what evidence you have against a person isn't enough for SC.
Yep -- I have walked away from trades where the trader said "You replied to my post, so you sell first," or "I will sell first, but only 1 item, then you sell the rest and we complete the trade back at my farm." Uhhh --No in both instances.Quote:
Originally Posted by Janilee
Janilee -- I had not considered the effect of NHs on trading scams. That's probably especially an issue in NHs that are set to "Anyone Can Join."Quote:
Originally Posted by Janilee
I also would not join a NH just to make a trade, and would not invite a trader into our NH to trade. To me that is just increasing risk for little reward.
While I can understand the mentality of the higher level traders, I often steer clear of those who make these "higher level trades first" claims.This is coming from someone who doesn't mind trading first at all; in fact most times I do trade first regardless of the other's level. But making these claims feels like a form of righteous self entitlement, and because of what? A few levels of difference?
Trading will always be, scams or not. Most times we deal with honest ppl. If you get taken, oh well, it's just a game. Before I traded with ppl from this forum, but how much do you really need. Few good friends, help selflessly and be merry. Perky is a good friend!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ggghghhgjegfjefgefgje
Luv you too DaQ -- missed seeing you around for a while. Glad you're back :)
i was farming, in my own special way, but forum, not so much...Quote:
Originally Posted by PerkyCox
i'll try to frequent :-) njoy ur day/afternoon/evening...
i 100% agree to this!Quote:
Originally Posted by XpsychO
Oh that's rich. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by PerkyCox
Not righteous self-entitlement, but safety for both traders --Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplixity
*I know I will ALWAYS complete the trade.
*I know I will NEVER scam anyone.
*I know that I know how to trade, and can teach others to do it well and with as much safety as you can have in a wide-open RSS. Many of the folks I have traded with in the past were first time traders who are now experienced and valued trading partners.
*I know that if you sell me your 40 planks first, you want my 40 bolts and will come and get 'em after I buy the planks. I had a level 40ishplayer once agree to trade my 50 mallets at 1 coin per 10 for her 50 markers at 1 coin per 10, AND s/he would sell first. When I arrived at her shop ready to buy, s/he sent me a FB IM demanding a screenshot to prove I had all the items we had agreed to trade, AND s/he wanted to buy first. I walked away. Less than 15 min later there was a post on the FB group that this person was a scammer.
When you sell first with me that builds trust between us, and once we have a trusted trade relationship, I will buy first OR sell first, regardless of level.
I never understood the mentality of trade scammers. Ur basically scamming people of virtual expansion items to expand ur virtual barn/silo that exists in ur virtual farm. Wow. I can't help but to think these are kids who's got nothing better to do than to go around seeing what they can get away with. Whatever. :rolleyes:
Roger That!Quote:
Originally Posted by PerkyCox
I wonder the same -- why would anyone lie to "steal" virtual items that don't exist except on a server in Finland?Quote:
Originally Posted by Haystacker
It has been my experience in life that character will out -- good character or bad character will manifest itself always.
If you are willing to lie ♥♥♥♥♥ and steal in an anonymous computer game to obtain the aforementioned digital items that don't exist, that moral flexibility within you makes you more susceptible to the same behaviors in other aspects of your real life.
I know I'm stating an unpopular opinion. But eh, so you say you're not a scammer. Yet you're asking the other person to put themselves at risk first. And there's nothing wrong with that - you should take all the steps you feel is necessary to make a safe trade. But I just don't want to deal with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by PerkyCox
All trades requires some kind of trust, and I'm going to keep on believing that most players are decent players who won't betray that trust.
Just from what I've observed from the complaints posted...most scams these days happen with people who want to use NH to trade. It's a huge red flag for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by PerkyCox
Someone has to go first, and I think higher level buys first is reasonable, as well as the established precedent here. One, higher level players tend to have larger barns and more coins, and can afford to buy first. Two, higher level players are viewed as being more trustworthy, just because they've been around longer. Obviously, this doesn't enter into it if you're talking about someone who is level 10 vs. level 11, but someone who's level 90 vs. level 30? I think the higher level player has "earned" the right to buy first. (And I thought so even when I was a very low level player.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplixity
Same. Some are probably just kids getting off on breaking the rules, but most of them...I think they're sociopaths. One person who has repeatedly scammed people here advertises herself as the mother of several children. Whether she actually spends her days taking care of the kids, or just says so so people are more willing trust her, I don't know. But either way, that's not normal behavior.Quote:
Originally Posted by Haystacker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplixity
That's fair :)
I also believe this is true of most PLAYERS. But unfortunate experience has taught me that I am more likely to come across unscrupulous players WHILE TRADING than at any other time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplixity
I have also learned that there are some TRADERS who are just flat-out scammers, and so I take care protect myself and my digital items that don't exist -- ha ha
Although i Agree with the ideas mentioned here, the problem still remains that anyone can now just surf the trade threads and KIK/PM lower levels, claim the "higher buys first" prerequisite and then just ignore them? Nothing will be done to their GC account and/or FB account and at most they can just make another forum account to keep on with the act... Worst of all is their names are not allowed to be mentioned on said forums as that is against the rules (understandably for rumours etc) but this means they will too be able to trade with as many people as they can before losing their forum account and making another....
I too stick with a few trusted traders however, this doesnt mean that scamming isnt a problem and that it shouldnt get looked into. Supercell is usually very willing to cater to their community with new updates and bug fixes, why not at least some form of GC banning or so on?
The same is done on any other form of "online" gameplay especially where this could be seen as theft of real-life money where some people might possibly spend diamonds, purchased with real money, on items that they could eventually trade... At least come up with a reporting system if any....
Trading is something creative players have invented to progress a little faster in the game however it is not a designed part of the game and therefore not supported. So no we won't investigate scamming claims. So one has to be careful.
As most traders are aware there is a no name & shame rule on the forums and that rule is not up for debate. It is (and has proven to be) just far too easy to falsely accuse someone and that's a road we don't wish to travel.
I read as few comments in this thread about people creating second accounts and try and scam again etc. So I also want to remind everyone that creating a second account on the forums is against forum rules as well. If you feel someone has created a new forum account feel free to report it to any mod around the forums and that will be investigated.
I am willing to leave this thread open for now to discuss several tips on how to trade safely. If it turns into a debate on the name & shame rule or what SC has to do on the subject we will need to close it.
Where does one discuss these things then if not on the forums?
I am not intending on beginning a riot against supercell or anything of the sort.. I have been a very active player on both hayday and CoC for at least over a year or so...These things should however be discussed? Especially if such a thing is present on the forums? I find your response very disconcerning in that it would appear we are not allowed to share our opinions and too have to live with it or leave, no further discussion allowed
I dont think i have seen any debatable points thus far? and more opinions as well as advice for the unknowing......
Am I missing something from the rules of the forum? Are we not allowed to sate your opinion, particularly when it's different from SC's point of view?
To to be clear, stating your opinion without breaking any of their rules...
this is a serious question because my previous post was deleted for reasons that are unclear to me. If we are not allowed to voice our thoughts without breaking any rules, then what's the purpose of these forums?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolonistje1
Is this regardless of how much irrefutable evidence that has been provided?
We don't have a problem with discussing that there are people out there who would scam on trading in general. You can also discuss what measure you all as players take or can take, share tips etc. to avoid running into one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoothe
I also wanted to point out that having multiple forum accounts is against rules and you all can report them to the mods and they will investigate that as this also is against the forum rules.
However the name & shame rule we have on the forums is not up for debate and there is nothing that can be brought to the table to change this. The trade thread has been around a long time and so have scammers so this is nothing new and this debate is not new either. Trades can go wrong whether intentional or not period. Players who are willing to trade also have to take that risk.
It is far too easy to wildly accuse anyone from scamming or swooping in an stealing a trade. We have had that happen in the past. Yes we do realise that this is also protecting the scammer but in 99 out of 100 cases we are protecting the innocent here. How would you feel if someone accused you of scamming ?
Second as I said trading is something players came up with and players have to sort out their issues with it so therefore it is also not up for debate what SC should and shouldn't do about it.
As a player who has successfully traded in the past you are more then welcome to share your tips on how to trade sucessfully in this thread.
a few that come to mind. The higher level rule is a nice one, trade within your own NH with players you have known in there for a while, people who regularly post around the forums etc. Check up on those things. And as always if an offer it is to good to be true...
Your post was deleted because it was posted after mine. Probably a cross post when we were both writing ours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ella007kid
In my post I specifically mentioned that this can't be put on SC's plate however your post still adressed that very topic.
Unfortunately yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoothe
We can't open a door halfway here and there is no middle ground.
I am pretty sure most people if they have been scammed once by a person they know the next time to watch out for them. You can tell your trading network via Kik or PM but not on the public forums.
Very eloquently stated. I will leave it at that, as one deleted post is enough for today lolQuote:
Originally Posted by PerkyCox
being new to trading, I feel safest when responding to posts, rather than actually creating them, because I feel as though those who take the time to intentionally post a trade request have purer intentions maybe, of actually going through with set trade, just a tip that's worked for me thus far.
I notice sometimes players trade at less than maximum price. Sincere question: why? Is it because a trader might not have enough coins to cover the transaction?
If you trade at max price, then if one trader skips out on the trade, at least the selling player won't lose out on coins. It's disappointing if the items you were expecting never show up. But it must burn all the more when the other party snagged your goods for a low price.
(p.s. That's a very nice piece of moderating there, Kolonitstje1. I know folks are a little heated, but I appreciate how you explained the situation with strength as well with some compassion and gentle tones.)
That's the same as saying theft is amongst its participants and should not concern authorities or the country... If this were the case, there would not be a suggestions section here? It was never a debatable topic...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolonistje1
Perhaps i am miss-understanding something here. As such i would like to apologize to the players, moderators and developers whom i might have insulted with my lack of intelligence. It was not my intention and i will continue to play this game and hopefully too enjoy it further...
Thank you for your responses.
Oh gosh thank you so much! :oQuote:
Originally Posted by LetTheMusicPlay
As a player I don't like the scamming as much as the next player and yes I do understand the concerns however we do have to protect the innocent here.
No that's not the same. Countries have laws against that so they are also responsible to uphold them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoothe
There is a difference between allowing something and supporting / endorsing it. A safe way to trade is simply not part of the game nor will it be in the forseeable future. I'll ask it again, how would you feel if someone started a thread and called you out for stealing or scamming a trade ? I don't think anyone would like that very much.
I am rarely moved to post on this forum these days, for reasons I will not go into. However, this has been on my mind for a long while, probably since starting the game back last October.
Trading.
If it causes so much upset, annoyance, heartache, stress, etc... don't bother!!!
There is a reason SuperCell didn't put a trading facility in the game originally and have still not done so despite repeated requests for it. Why can't everyone just play the game in the way it was intended? Find your tools and expansion materials on your own farm, in the Daily Dirt, in neighbouring shops. Short of crops? Grow them! Short of produce? Make the items! That's part of the enjoyment of the game.
I'm not going to stick around and argue the point because it doesn't interest me to have a war of words on a gaming forum, but I felt it was time to express my opinion on something for once. And it is MY opinion. I'm not saying you have to agree and I'm sure the avid traders will say it's what the game is all about. Well, get this... it isn't, or people far more intelligent and knowledgeable in the game designing world than you are would've written it into Hay Day from the outset.
Get the knives out if you so choose. I won't lose any time reading your comments.
For the moderators: If this post is deleted, you really will have confirmed that we are not allowed to express our own opinions on what is, ostensibly, an open forum.
In my opinion, you come across as very intelligent :) And also very justified in your anger. If I were scammed in a trade, then I would want to torch the bast*rd. It's so unfair, and anyone with a sense of justice is going to empathize/sympathize with people who are taken advantage of. And it truly blows to think the culprit might "get away" with it when they've done wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoothe
And even though Supercell does not have the investigative/due-process powers to adjudicate these trades gone wrong, they do have the authority to ban members who break stated forum rules.
Upthread there was mention of a known scammer who has multiple accounts. Take advantage of that. Report them and see what the admins can do. They might be able to ban them by I.P. number.
Even the U.S. government - as powerful as it is - is unable to convict people of some truly heinous crimes like murder, etc. But sometimes they luck out and they get the bad guys anyway, by prosecuting them for things like tax fraud. Follow that trail ...
You're welcome. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolonistje1
Speaking only for myself, I trade at the price my trading partner and I agree on. Price is an essential component of any trade, and should ALWAYS be clearly discussed. Some traders ask for max price both ways, some want to trade at default for speed, and some ask me to sell at 1 coin and buy from them at max -- I am willing to do this if they are at a point in the game where they still need to buy machines (with the town that is every level I guess). I even post that "I buy at max and sell at 1 coin" in my trade requests sometimes, and the responders will still want to trade at the price they want to trade at -- usually default both ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by LetTheMusicPlay
Some traders believe that 10 bolts in the last box of a shop at 2700 coins are less attractive to snipers (variously defined as lurkers who spot a trade about to happen and swoop in to buy the goods OR as random players scrolling through your shop who buy the goods not knowing about a trade in progress). I think that 10 bolts in the last box at any price will disappear as soon as someone sees them. Price is not usually an issue when rare expansion materials are exposed in the shop.
At my level coins are irrelevant. I wont feel a "loss" of the max coins if my partner scams me. I WILL feel the loss of the digital items that don't exist -- which I why I buy first from traders I have not traded with before, and seek out my trusted trader network before I hit the public trading threads (as a last resort).
I also am not usually doing the smaller trades -- my last trade involved a total of 235 items with a very trusted partner at level 100+. Another recent trade was 40 bolts for 40 planks -- again, with a trusted partner in the high 70s. I also have trusted partners in the mid-30s, high 40s, mid-50s -- in every level I have been able to form trusted trading relationships with players by being a fast and efficient trader, offering fair ratios, being polite and understanding, and very VERY clear about the terms of trades.
I also communicate before, during, and after the trade with Kik or forum PMs or FB IMs. Communication is critical, because math or item mistakes are made, people get phone calls (many play HD on their phone like I did) and batteries die. <-- ANOTHER reason not to allow name and shame.
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by LetTheMusicPlay
Once I had a trading partner angrily accuse me of shorting him in a large trade of several items. I checked my math and the screenshots showing how many bins of goods he bought, and how many of the items I had before and after the trade -- all showing that he bought everything we agreed to. He still persisted in the incorrect belief that I had shorted him, and named me very vitriolically on the trading forum as a scammer in MULTIPLE POSTS, calling me out, accusing me of not responding to him (when I was PMing him the whole time, trying not to get banned from the forum). After he discovered his mistake, he apologized -- in a PM -- HOURS later.
Fortunately, his naming and shaming posts got deleted VERY QUICKLY before my reputation as a fair and honest trader was irreparably harmed (Kolonostje -- I think you helped me with that. Maybe it was Kendra. It was a LOOOOONG time ago). He was banned for a period of time, and when he was allowed back on, the first person he kiked for a trade from the trading thread was . . . ME!! I declined, respectfully ha ha --
So I agree with the no name and shame rule -- and here is another good one: Caveat Trader.
You posted this in another spot. Seems like you really do care and have an axe to grind.
I've seen many posts in the past where SC moderators were like "you should have used PM's instead then we could have done something" when a trade goes bad. So why is everyone saying KIK only instead of PM's on the trade threads? It seems to be rampant. Did something change.
I use use Kik because it is faster than forum PMs -- that's all :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodama
I also have not had forum mods offer to help when a trade goes bad -- and I don't expect them to. I know that trading is tolerated (but not supported) by SC and is not part of the game design. I know that I trade at my own risk, and that if I get scammed there is no recourse through SC. For me, it has nevertheless been worth it to "roll the dice" by trading -- but then I have also been very lucky since I have never been scammed. I have had a couple of close calls but have been lucky so far to sniff out the squirrels --
Thanks for the extensive, thoughtful answer to my question, PerkyCox. :)
Especially this:
This was the answer to the question that I didn't have enough experience/knowledge to articulate. Mystery solved on the default prices. Of course, it's faster than resetting the price to max or something else. Curiosity satisfied here.Quote:
Originally Posted by PerkyCox
For heaven's sake. Again??? This has to come up again????????
Just what part of "trading is at your own risk" and "trading is not supported by SC" is so hard to comprehend???
If you can't accept the risk then don't trade. Period. If "we" aren't careful SC (who owns this forum and has every right to decide what the rules are) will finally lose patience once and for all and close the trading thread. That would be a shame, as the vast majority of trades go off without a hitch.
PS: Mods, you have my sympathy for once again having to deal with this topic. Your level of patience is remarkable!!
I have traded many times successfully, being scammed once. The things that stood out about this transaction:
she he could not do it through GC but wanted to go through FB, then claimed that didn't work and wanted me to join her NH.
she took a long time to reply to PMs the whole process took more than an hour.
She requested I put my stuff up first despite being lower level.
she had multiple wheats up for sale. When I bought one set, it disappeared and was replaced by another.
She never put up what she offered, but claimed she did.
Maybe be people will recognize a pattern like this and walk away before being scammed.
This is no good for honest players.
At least 90% of us are honest.
We are at vain due to the scammers.
Yes I indeed know that the violation of the name and shame policy was increased and you had to close the trading.
I am not happy with this decision but yes, I support you..
???? Has the trading thread been closed? I just checked it and seemed like business as usual ...Quote:
Originally Posted by ExcellentPosts
Perky I want to thank you for for sharing your story!
It may be a bit of a long post however it is spot on and definately worth the read.
Here's the link to the post just in case: http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...=1#post2098231
Honestly I can't remember whether it was me or possibly Kendra who handled it at the time however I do know there have been several stories like these in the past. In fact there have been more stories like these then actual scammers.
So thank you again for sharing your story :)
Nothing changed but some users prefer to use Kik to arrange the trade details rather then forum PM because it's easier / faster. It's all up to you whether you use Kik or forum PM to arrange a trade.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodama
However whether it is Kik or PM that is used isn't relevant as our stance is the same on how we handle these matters. Disputes need to be settled in private and not on the public forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PerkyCox
The trading thread is not closed however we moved over to a new part today because it was getting rather big again. Part 7 went live and part 6 is closed which is also still on the front page.Quote:
Originally Posted by ExcellentPosts
So yes business as usual.
I have been trading for a year or so and have never been scammed. Maybe just lucky but here's how I do it:
1. No trading using Neighbourhood (other than my trusted neighbours). Our NH is free to join and should a new person join that no one knows, s/he will just have to trade first regardless of our respective levels.
2. I have always used the "lower level goes first" rule quite happily, even when for the first six months or so I was the lower level person! It was already established precedent and made sense to me. I had to build a reputable trading history and being the "lower level" trader allowed me to do that. And it only seems fair that I "paid my dues" as a lower level trader, and now I generally don't have to any more - the new lower levels do, just as I did!
3. On very rare occasions, if the other player was higher than me but was new to the forum I would ask them to go first. This was prior to the popularity of KIK and made sense to me - in the forum sense I was the "long timer". Never had someone say no.
4. I always agree on the exact # of items being traded, the agreed upon price which is usually default, both for speed and for protection against possible losses, and who will trade first BEFORE the trade. Have also been both the beneficiary of and the donor of "you sell for max price and I sell for 1 coin" which has always been a lovely bonus for me, from both ends.
5. On a couple of occasions someone has "swooped in" and taken one of our trades. In both cases I've split the losses with the other person (even though on both occasions they had ads running during the trade - not something I'd ever do) but I didn't trade with them again. Don't want to trade with anyone who's got ads up - minimizes risk.
6. I never trade when I've got an ad up. Lessens the odds of a "swooper".
7. I've built good relationships with some traders and use them as much as possible.
8. I don't do huge trades with unknown traders, just to minimize any potential losses.
9. If I ever do get scammed, I'll chalk it up as a learning experience and move on a little bit wiser.
So, my experience has been overwhelmingly positive. And I do appreciate Supercell allowing us to trade through the forum. They could, after all, ban it outright. And I certainly don't expect them to "enforce" trading rules that we players created. And although I'm sure being scammed is no fun, I know I am exposing myself to possible risks by trading and if it happens, it happens. It's not the end of the world. Finally, I do see the merits behind the no naming and shaming policy and respect it.
My thoughts too. I have been playing for over a year and have never had a bad trade. If your worried about getting ripped off don't trade, its that easy. Close your neighborhood to request to join or invite only and just trade with your hood neighbors. I do alot of trading with my hood neighbors, everyyonce in a while I will get i KIK from an original neighbor and we will trade. Its pretty easy. Just remember its a game and its not the end of the world if somebody steals a bolt from you, you can get it back by wheating. Happy farming.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarySC
The name and shame rule is pretty much standard on all the games I have played, these are PC MMOS, WoW, RS, SWTOR, STO, LoTRO, DDO. I hope I haven't broken any rules here I just used them as examples of pretty big companies that do this too. All of them investigate reports of scamming in game because they have those systems in place, which I don't think can be done with this game as there is no way to arrange trades in the game as there is no chat system like in those. However like this game if it takes place outside of the game the person is on their own if they get scammed, and as I said there is no safe way to do this safely in game therefore it will always fall under buyer beware.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolonistje1
I would support the name and shame rule on the opposite end of the scale, even if it protected 99 scammers out of 100 threads the fact that one could be completely innocent is enough for me.
As with anything is has to be buyer beware. I operate this was even when dealing with big businesses. For example I check my change before leaving a till or the post office counter. I check my receipt, if I am over charged I go straight to customer service. Even with these big companies on a face to face basis I have found mistakes and they have been rectified. If I hadn't done that and gone noticed it later then it is on my back as there is no proof that it happened to me and I am not using someone elses receipt.
Although a closer comparison would be that you and another customer decide you've bought the wrong goods on the way out of the shop and decide to swap. Nothing to do with the shop, and if the other customer runs off with your bananas as well as their apples it's just rotten luck really... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by JayC
I've only ever done one trade off the forum, and I found it so stressful that I never did it again. On the other hand our neighbourhood are always selling each other bits and bobs cheaply. It's not really trading, and you wouldn't offer someone who only just joined the neighbourhood 10 bolts for pretty much nothing, so it's all about earning trust and helping each other.
I'll share some tips that you should do to protect yourself from scammer.
1. Use "higher level trade first" rule. It won't guarantee that higher level won't scam you but it's less likely.
2. You may use, "higher post on forum" rule instead. Someone with many hundreds of post is less likely to scam you than someone with 1 post.
3. Once you trade with someone successfully, become friend with them. It's risky at first because you don't know who you can trust. Once you got someone that will not scam you then please trade with that players.
if something start to seems fishy, do the following...
1. Trade at lower quantity multiple times. It may takes more time but losing 5 BEMs is a lot better than losing a whooping 50 BEMs.
2. Trade at max price. If you got scam then it's still like selling your item in the store.
3. Search his "post in the past". If he make ton of successful trade then he's less likely to be a scammer.
4. If all else fail, walk away safely and trade with someone else. Time wasting is better than getting scammed.
Look at my signature, I've had that "condition" for trading for awhile now, and it works for me. It pretty much rules out scammers contacting me for trade as it would defeat their purpose of scamming if I bought from them first. 99% of those who reply to my trade offers generally are quite happy to trade by my condition. For the very few that have been quite hesitant to allow me to buy first, I usually just thank them for taking the time to KIK me but unfortunately I'll have to walk away from the trade, but that happens very rarely.
Sometimes. If a lower level player needs coins, higher level players are often happy to buy at max and sell at default or min. At this point in the game, coins mean nothing to me. Getting more coins would be zero consolation for being scammed.Quote:
Originally Posted by LetTheMusicPlay
I do think selling at max makes it less likely that someone will swoop in, if only because lower level players often don't have the coins to buy 10 deeds at max. Heck, I've been that player in the past.
Also, changing the price of items is a pain and takes time. If you're doing a large trade - 300 bolts for 300 planks, say - it's just much faster to trade at default.
Funny that you mention this.Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronCZY
This has been for me the reason not to contact you many times even if I had what you wanted.
Not because I don't trust you, but because you go against the "standard" rules as stated by numerous people already.
Thanks, Janilee :) It's nice to understand a little better the whys and hows of trading.Quote:
Originally Posted by Janilee
Same here. It's a red flag to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Namoh
I've only been burned once out of hundreds of trades.
Ok time for my two cents
First , I don't use the trading threads. Everything seems a little too intense over there, plus I don't want any new friends unless we have been chatting on the forum here and have gotten to know each other.
Second. I think supercell has made its position well known. Trading is not supported and they mean it! That's why I know it will never be made a part of the game. The naming and shaming policy is also well spelled out. People just need to read what's ahead of them on any thread about it to know that. The problem is that people don't read. Sooo many times near the end of a thread, we'll see a post demanding this or that or asking why something is the way it is, when just a few posts up, the reasons are made very very clear. Supercell's position is very clear. Period, full stop, the end! And this position has been the same since the very beginning. Nothing someone new is going to say is going to change that. Not because new folks don't have reasoned arguments, but because many people before you have said it and the result is the same.
Three Aaron, I agree with the two before me in that your signature is off putting. While it protects you, it doesn't protect anyone else. What the scammers do also protects them. I am not saying you at a scammer and I would trade with you simply because of your post count. Clearly the forum means something to you and your reputation on it would be toast if you were a bad guy! But there are lots and lots of people whose only contact with the forum is the trading thread and over there, I wouldn't give you the time of day. That's just from the perspective of someone who might not know you as well as I do. I do hope you know that. I personally respect you, but I wouldn't suggest to people that they copy your signature, that's all. I don't think it is quite the solution you think it is, but I understand your reasons and respect your right to think that way.
Lastly and I hope the mods don't hate me for this, but I would like to suggest that we honor their position whether you agree with it or not and that we don't encourage anyone to break this rule. I would also suggest that when you see someone naming someone or trashing rule number one that you report the post, so it can be removed quickly. I'd like all stories like Perky's have the good ending hers did. She is well respected and quite capable of taking care of herself, but others aren't necessarily as strong as she is and would be devastated if wrongly accused. I've seen more than one forum member gets insulted, accused , hurt, and leave over nonsense and this would be even worse.
Ok I'm done. I hear my cows mooing.
Tigg
Well, I'm starting to see why SC has the no naming and shaming rule, because even this small tidbit of information is dangerous. I know you're just trying to help within the rules. As a mother of several children who has never had a trade go badly, I still immediately think, "What if people think I'm who she's referring to?!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Janilee
I am really scratching my head over why SC doesn't get behind trading. I mean it is a great part of the game. You meet lots of new people, things balance out better and it's just plain fun. One of the reasons I still do hayday quite frankly. That seems to be one of big points to neighborhoods. They are all about helping each other. I guess it would just be to hard for HayDay to police the ♥♥♥♥♥ers. So I think the best way to deal with ♥♥♥♥♥ers is to just sell things at max price to each other. A little more hassle but it would probably cut the scammers down quite a bit.
Same for me. I'd have quit long ago without trading. Just too tedious. I would also have never opened a Facebook account except to trade. They seem to want us to connect to social media. Trading is a great inducement.Quote:
Originally Posted by AMonroe
I think in-game trading is a feature they might add eventually. Originally the game was designed with no diamond confirmation button. That changed. This could, too.
While I think trading would be a great feature, I fully support Supercell's current choice not to offer support for it. As a stickler for language, though, I wish we could all stop saying Supercell does not endorse trading. They may not support trading, but they technically do endorse it. On the Supercell website, trading is mentioned at least 3 times on the main Hay Day page: http://www.supercell.net/games/view/hay-day . That's a promotion and de facto endorsement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ourhandsfull
EXACTLY!!!!
OHF -- I think I have traded with you once or twice and had a good experience. I would trade with you again.
Posts with fragments of info -- even if those fragments are true-- can apply to many thousands of innocent players, and how do they recover their reputation?
What if I had jumped offline before my trading partner started shaming me? I would never have known I was trashed, or that he had an issue, since he never PMed or kiked me -- until he wanted to apologize belatedly in private and trade again.
Thanks. The feeling is mutual. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by PerkyCox
Janilee, while I don't trade with the trade threads, I do have a few barn buddies who I arrange to get those last five nails or that last bolt. So I am not against arranged sales. But I don't think they will ever add dedicated trading into the game. And here's why.Quote:
Originally Posted by Janilee
They go to great lengths to program in the balance or lack of it into the game. With trading that balance is destroyed. There are now four of us playing on farms in my household and each of us has a different rare item. Plus my son who is the lowest level gets way more expansion materials in the DD because he hasn't unlocked as many things as I have. He goes shopping and I pay for the things. When he needs or even just wants a silo upgrade, there is no problem because between my farms and his sister's we will have what he needs. He got ambushed by his sister for selling cream without telling us the other day and all he could say was "What!" We have a little cooperative going here and while it is fun, I have seen time and time again people refusing help because they want to do it themselves. Heck, our Captains thread would still be in operation if so many folks hadn't decided to take on those achievements solo. The balance whether we like it or not is the reason this game is so successful. There is always something to do and since there really is no winner, we have to get our winner's rush when we find that shop with ten lobster or five bolts or now, those paint buckets.
Also, one of the reasons that SC staff won't monitor, investigate or intercede in trade disputes is because trading is not a feature of the game. To try to do so would be impossible with the current staff even if technically it could be done. They have enough problems with misunderstandings that predictably come with the written word on these forums. If trading became a sanctioned feature, that responsibility would change. And even if it didn't, and they made it policy not to intervene,the number of people demanding they do something would increase. We already have people wanting them to reverse the mistakes they make in the game, to refund money spent on the statue that didn't look so ugly in the store, or return items they didn't mean to sell as they were falling asleep with their farm open in bed. Can you imagine the posts , demands and trouble tickets if they sanctioned trading? People would want trades reversed because "I didn't know my next boat would want so many brown sugars"
I am glad we can buy stuff from each other. (It's been a pain not being able to do so on that other game with a town in it) But I do not see trading becoming a sanctioned feature of this game.
Is it still a recent experience since you've had that signature for quite a while? I visit the trading thread frequently, and every time I see your signature I think "oh no, this person is STILL getting ripped off?!" :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronCZY
Don't get me wrong, I totaly respect you wanting to buy first and I would gladly trade with you on that condition! :)
This whole thread confuses me. Maybe somebody can explain. Hopefully this doesn't come off as confrontational, but I tend to do that with people in these scenarios. :o
It seems to me that the NH *is* the trading solution from SC, regardless of whether they publicly state that. I trade many many many times/day through my NH. The idea of having KIK running on my tablet and swapping apps, or going through Facebook, is anathema to me. Seems that deals are far more easily and quickly done right there in-app in the neighborhood. I'm really curious why/how KIK/FB are better?
I also confused about the hesitation for people to sell at Max. Why would you not? In my NH people are constantly "bringing things home" that they found in the DD: found 5 bolts, they don't need them, but bought them, announced to the neighborhood, and then sold them. It seems obvious to me that they bought them at max and therefore should sell them to me at max.
Some people seem to be scared of neighbors joining, taking from you, then leaving without contributing. Ummm, why are you in a neighborhood that allows anybody to join? Why are you in a NH where the leader allows people to take but not give? Have the old-timers in your NH that everybody trusts and loves promoted to Elder, let them send invites to people that help them. Bring them in. If they fit you win, if not then evict.
And as for the "SC doesn't support Trading" statements: it's not clear what people actually want them to do? Really, how would it work in the game if SuperCell "supported" this? Some sort of in-game escrow system? Can somebody please explain concretely what the user experience would be for a "supported" trading system.
Also, consider that at the end of the day, SuperCell is a corporation. If they publicly and officially claim "support" for a trade between two people they don't know about, then they may very well be creating a legal obligation for themselves in some countries to have to get involved in disputes. I don't want that. It would raise their costs, which in turn would raise my costs. So I very much expect that SuperCell internally considers that the Neighborhood feature IS the trading mechanism, even though they might prohibit themselves from saying as much.
I like the current system. But maybe I'm lucky, because I like my neighborhood and my neighbors: almost everybody is active, and trades frequently. Those who don't aren't/don't don't stay around.
Or to summarize: SuperCell has given you the tools: why are you not using them?
Those mentions are more to do with neighbourhoods than the unofficial trading threads in the forum. For example I traded a number of expansion items to a friend of mine to get him past the first storage hump and clearance items to help there too. I agreed this with him and went to his to do it so we were side by side so he could buy as soon as I put it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by ourhandsfull
kik doesn't have the same filter problems and character limits. You can't see the NH chat while on your neighbor's farm, but you can see a kik notification that your neighbor has felt the need to say something to you mid-trade.Quote:
Originally Posted by XYZZY
I agree, but I always sell at default because that is what everyone else does and seems to expect. The lone max seller looks greedy.Quote:
Originally Posted by XYZZY
Well lots of other games have trading features. For example, there is a popular game connected to cute little stuffed animals that has trading, or at least it did when I played it a few years ago. Players could chat to discuss the items being traded, then offer them up in the trade feature, then if the trade was very lopsided, the game would give a warning, like "You're trading a bolt for a wheat. Do you really want to do this? Yes or No". I seem to recall it working very well.Quote:
Originally Posted by XYZZY
But the balance is "destroyed" anyway, with FB trade groups, the trading thread here, neighborhoods...not to mention those online businesses that will sell you as many BEMs as you need.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiggerr129
The way I see it, the imbalance is clearly to encourage you to interact with other players, whether selling through your RSS or finding friends and neighbors to help you out. Trading fits nicely with that.
As for investigating...if it's built into the game, they don't have to. Other games have an escrow service of sorts. You each put up what you want to trade, and if both agree, the swap is made. No scamming possible.
Perhaps it was intended to be, but I think there's a dark side to it they never expected. Such as those using NHs to scam others, and those giant neighborhoods of bot farms that harvest BEMs to sell for real cash.Quote:
Originally Posted by XYZZY
The chat function in the NHs is terrible. The filter blocks many perfectly innocent (and very useful) words and phrases. And you can't really use it during the trade, because the person not at their own farm can't chat.Quote:
I trade many many many times/day through my NH. The idea of having KIK running on my tablet and swapping apps, or going through Facebook, is anathema to me. Seems that deals are far more easily and quickly done right there in-app in the neighborhood. I'm really curious why/how KIK/FB are better?
I prefer Facebook messaging myself. I can have FB open on my computer while remaining in the game for the trade on my phone.
I have over a million coins and absolutely nothing left that I want to spend them on. While my neighbor is struggling to gather enough coins to open the Lobster Pool. Why would I not want to help her?Quote:
I also confused about the hesitation for people to sell at Max. Why would you not?
It's also quite tedious to jack up the price to max if you're doing very large trades. I sometimes trade hundreds of items. It goes a lot faster if you sell at default.
It's not my neighbors I'm concerned about. They're all great. But sometimes randoms interfere when we give each other stuff. (We don't really trade in my NH.) GC or FB friends, or followers.Quote:
Some people seem to be scared of neighbors joining, taking from you, then leaving without contributing.
I think this is encouraging some players to delete followers and unfriend people (or disconnect from FB). Which is unfortunate, and I would guess not what SC intended.
Exactly. Since other games do it, I'm sure SC could, without incurring onerous legal obligations.Quote:
And as for the "SC doesn't support Trading" statements: it's not clear what people actually want them to do? Really, how would it work in the game if SuperCell "supported" this? Some sort of in-game escrow system?
Lol. I knew you would say that! But SC will tell you that only a small minority of hay day players use the forums and FB. I can't vouch for the accuracy of that so I have to take their word for it. And I tend to agree with you that the game sure does push you to speed things up with diamonds and trade to even things out. But then I think about some of the other similar games (which must not be named) I am really low on hammers to expand my barn, but there is absolutely no other way to get them. I can visit other players' (playing area) but only to get an achievement or send a gift or complete three tasks, or even just to look around. I can't buy anything from anyone and certainly not in the levels that we can on Hay day. The imbalance is there too, but the solution not available. Even without trading, we have more of a solution because we can buy things without limits. Maybe they think what we have is enough. I don't know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Janilee
Maybe XYZZY is right and they have given us as much as we are going to get. And I am at a disadvantage as I have never played a game like you mentioned with trading and escrows etc. Maybe you are right. It could be done. I just don't think it will be. Tell you what. I'd be tickled to death if down the road, you brought this thread back up and gave me a big fat I told you so!. How's that! It sure would solve a lot of complaints wouldn't it! Well ....... Maybe.....
That's why I think they might do it. I think that's why they finally gave us the diamond confirmation button: they just got tired of the kvetching. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiggerr129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Namoh
I understand where you guys are coming from, and I totally respect that. Like I said, I'm just putting that condition of trade out there for people to see, if players don't feel comfortable with it, I'm happy to walk away from the trade, and they have the freedom not to contact me either :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ourhandsfull
Are you referring to the "standard" rule of higher level goes first?
Yes I agree with you, I'm certainly not encouraging everyone to follow my way of trading, or else nothing will ever get traded around here. It's simply just a method of protection on my part. However I DO make exceptions when trading with players who have a constant presence on the forums (besides the trade thread). It certainly isn't a solution like you said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiggerr129
No it's been awhile already, I just haven't been bothered changing it since I haven't had any problems with anyone refusing to trade with me. I'd say a 100% of players who contact me for trade have expressed their recognition of that statement and are cool with it. Also, I'm pretty sure I've traded with you and you're on my GC list :DQuote:
Originally Posted by makeupinternet
Just my 2 cents on trading, there will always be scammers around. There is no foolproof way of going about it as long as SC doesn't endorse it. The only thing you can do is just be selective with your trades, trade with people you know or have previous transactions/interactions with. If a trade sounds too good to be true, it usually is. Lastly, you can only honour your part of the deal (it's the only certainty in a trade), the rest lies in trust that the other party will do the same.
LOL, you are right, just visited your farm - you have that pretty frozen pond! ;) I'm glad it hasn't kept happening over and over, I can stop worrying about you constantly being scammed now. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronCZY
And personally I don't mind your condition at all.
[... snip nice personal story ...]Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiggerr129
Nice story. So you exchange items with family members. Wouldn't it be nice if you could so without the chance someone caught the stuff?
Would it really? Ever played a game where trading was a feature? How does the staff of those games deal with trading disputes?Quote:
Also, one of the reasons that SC staff won't monitor, investigate or intercede in trade disputes is because trading is not a feature of the game. To try to do so would be impossible with the current staff even if technically it could be done. They have enough problems with misunderstandings that predictably come with the written word on these forums. If trading became a sanctioned feature, that responsibility would change.
What does that say about the foundation of your lengthy previous statement?Quote:
And even if it didn't,
You believe so. Did you investigate somehow? Again, ever played a game where trading was a feature?Quote:
and they made it policy not to intervene,the number of people demanding they do something would increase.
Yes, there's people who whine and complain about anything everywhere. So what?Quote:
We already have people wanting them to reverse the mistakes they make in the game, to refund money spent on the statue that didn't look so ugly in the store, or return items they didn't mean to sell as they were falling asleep with their farm open in bed.
Yes I can imagine anything :)Quote:
Can you imagine the posts , demands and trouble tickets if they sanctioned trading?
I can imagine a game where people would be able to safely sell or trade their stuff, without anyone swooping in and catching it. I don't even have to imagine it, such games exist.
I can imagine the posts! Thank you Supercell, for improving this marvelous game!
How do you know? What's the difference between selling off excess stuff or trading it for other items in this regard?Quote:
People would want trades reversed because "I didn't know my next boat would want so many brown sugars"
A done deal is a done deal. End of story. No need to make up things to defend the current situation.
That's how it's dealt with in other games and SC could deal with it the same way.
I've played a game (offline now) where you could trade items. Players were presented with a split window. Left side your stuff, right side the other party's stuff. You'd have to click yes, and no changes could be made to the deal. When both sides clicked yes, both sides would have to click confirm to finish. So it's possible.
Oh look Hay Day is so much better than that other game which name we can't even mention. Should that be a reason to not improve anything?Quote:
I am glad we can buy stuff from each other. (It's been a pain not being able to do so on that other game with a town in it) But I do not see trading becoming a sanctioned feature of this game.
Does that other game have a town and a train?
Here is my personal (and maybe somewhat novel) thought on the matter at hand... I have been scammed a few times and I don't particularly care! It's a game that costs me nothing but time (and lots of That)! Nothing is ever lost when a trade goes wrong for me. I know a lot of people are way more emotionally invested in the game than I am, but for Me it is just stress relief and a way to connect with my step daughter (who is my only neighbor!). I will say that the Reason she is my only neighbor is that once neighbors figured out how young she is, the scamming became continuous and she took it personally! Almost to the point of quitting the game! I still trade, but not nearly as much as i used to. I also tend to turn more trades down that I used to. But in the end, if I lose 10 deeds, who cares. There will be more! Now, if the stupid mailman would just deliver me a BRT instead of another caterpillar!!!
I have what I think is a very strong NH. While it took me a while to get it going, now that it's going, we are more selective about who we let join. Everyone new is vetted by myself or one of my co-leaders. They are explained the rules and conduct allowed in the room. Lower level always goes first, without exception, until they are known the NH. If they refuse to abide by the rules of wheating, we don't play games. They are kicked out. We have had some try to attempt ripping ppl off, but by staying to the rules, we prevented problems. I have had a few members leave because they think my rules are too strict. However, many have returned with all saying they can't find another group like mine. We encourage trading, respect and interaction.
I'm not saying my group is without disagreements, but I carefully picked my co-leaders based on their ability to mediate. They all enforce the rules of wheating when trading em's and hard to find products and are constantly teaching others to be better traders. I had a good laugh the other day, when I told them I hoped eventually everyone would leave to start their own NH's with the teaching I have given them.
I dontnstop top my members from leaving our NH to trade in other, but to remember how to trade in strange NH's. We invite ppl to stay when they are visiting to do a trade from the forum and everyone is welcomed with a smile and a hello.
This is just my opinion and how I do things. I have to say after a year of playing HD, while I've been hijacked (twice), I've never been ripped off, because I follow the rules the ppl before me developed for wheating and trading.
I hope everyone has bountiful trades and Happy Farming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janilee
hi..i have a player in my neighbourhood ♥♥♥♥♥ and took away my 8 duct tapes ,,..she is in level 61 while i only 37 +level..about 4 months ago..she agree to trade with with me..but she bought the tapes and left my neighbour hood..i can't report to supercell as she left away ..
level 49..
Have never gotten into formal trades, just coordinated sales in the neighborhood. Even then there have been a few sales scooped up by neighbors and friends trolling the shop. When that happened, the neighbor graciously resold to the intended buyer. Guess my experiences have only been good ones. Not sure how they could actually stop trades, since they are really just RSS sales anyway.
I don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoothe
Is it? How can you predict the future?Quote:
People are beginning to learn that there are no consequences for scamming and are therefore buying everything they can and not replying or claiming ignorance.. and its going to be happening more and more..
I traded only with the nh for a long time. Well traded, we just sell and give stuff at will. There's some problems with that though. One is that there's shortage of one type of bem in the nh. Another is that I wheat more than anybody. I can flood the nh with my items and still have a ton of spares. So every other day I needed to sell the stuff through the rss just to be able to close the barn door. So now I try and keep a middle ground. I share my blessings with my neighbors by offering them first, offering them again the next day, and then trade some outside the nh when things pile up way too much.
So I installed kik on my pc for easy typing on a real keyboard. And made a few trades so far with people who posted on the forum. I didn't mind selling first even if I was the highest level player, and that's what I said when I kik'ed the poster, just to ease things up and get things going.
One person immediately said "come to my shop" when I joined their nh, which I did. After having bought, I just said "come to mine?" and we made the entire trade in 20 seconds. Must have been the smoothest trade ever. We had a nice talk after the trade too.
We're strangers, there's no need for them to trust me or the other way around. Yes I took a risk of losing some stuff. Before I made the trades, I sold the items through the rss though, just to get rid of it. So if someone is so pathetic to rip me for some game items, well too bad and I'll just not deal with them anymore :) Their loss, I'd say. They'll miss out on my stuff in the long run, right. Those who need my stuff probably have it as their rares and theyŽll need it more often. After the trade I said they could contact me when they need it and want to trade again.
When trading 40 items, I simply asked if we could trade smaller amounts multiple times. That wasn't a problem. All trades were at default price just to make it quicker. You could argue that if we'd trade at max price and people were to scam me for some game items, I'd still have the coin. But I've never been short on coin and certainly have plenty of it now so that doesn't make any difference to me.
There was one contact through kik that led to nothing. The guy mentioned a ratio in his post and halfway through the conversation he wanted to renegotiate the ratio in his favor, because he already got some of the items he needed and wasn't stressed out anymore. I don't say he wanted to scam me, I don't say I wouldn't trust him, I don't say he's a bad guy. Judging from his other posts on this forum, I even think he's a nice guy in general.
But it's just not the way I like to trade. If you offer something, you offer something, clear and simple. If I come for the deal you offer, and you want to change the offer in your favor during the conversation, I'll simply walk away and look for someone who isn't wasting my time with their stress issues. So I just said that wasn't what was in his post and said goodbye.
I've made some smooth trades, no items were lost, and met some nice people. Win-win, I'd say, for both sides, and I'll definitely do it again. I can see the benefits of having a regular trading group, but this has benefits too. YouŽll never know who youŽll meet and so far, all people turned out to be unique and nice persons, who just want to make an honest trade deal.
YMMV :)
I do not believe that trades will end. Sure, there will always be people that won't hold their end of the bargain, but, they will have to leave the forum once they do that once.
Also, I have never experienced that with trading with people here. Maybe I am more lucky, do not know. I just recently completed a trade with a new person. And was able to expand the barn to 1050 capacity... finally...
the point is, you can know when someone will try to scam you, it's not difficult.
Originally Posted by ourhandsfull
Well, I'm starting to see why SC has the no naming and shaming rule, because even this small tidbit of information is dangerous. I know you're just trying to help within the rules. As a mother of several children who has never had a trade go badly, I still immediately think, "What if people think I'm who she's referring to?!"
]EXACTLY!!!!
OHF -- I think I have traded with you once or twice and had a good experience. I would trade with you again.
Posts with fragments of info -- even if those fragments are true-- can apply to many thousands of innocent players, and how do they recover their reputation?
What if I had jumped offline before my trading partner started shaming me? I would never have known I was trashed, or that he had an issue, since he never PMed or kiked me -- until he wanted to apologize belatedly in private and trade again.[/QUOTE]
A Big Thank You to both of you. This is exactly what went thru my mind. I have never traded. Probably never will, but I still value my overall reputation and would hate to think that someone might have thought she was slyly referring to me.