Trading meeting its end...

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Originally Posted by Kolonistje1

We don't have a problem with discussing that there are people out there who would scam on trading in general. You can also discuss what measure you all as players take or can take, share tips etc. to avoid running into one.
I also wanted to point out that having multiple forum accounts is against rules and you all can report them to the mods and they will investigate that as this also is against the forum rules.

However the name & shame rule we have on the forums is not up for debate and there is nothing that can be brought to the table to change this. The trade thread has been around a long time and so have scammers so this is nothing new and this debate is not new either. Trades can go wrong whether intentional or not period. Players who are willing to trade also have to take that risk.

It is far too easy to wildly accuse anyone from scamming or swooping in an stealing a trade. We have had that happen in the past. Yes we do realise that this is also protecting the scammer but in 99 out of 100 cases we are protecting the innocent here. How would you feel if someone accused you of scamming ?

Second as I said trading is something players came up with and players have to sort out their issues with it so therefore it is also not up for debate what SC should and shouldn't do about it.

As a player who has successfully traded in the past you are more then welcome to share your tips on how to trade sucessfully in this thread.
a few that come to mind. The higher level rule is a nice one, trade within your own NH with players you have known in there for a while, people who regularly post around the forums etc. Check up on those things. And as always if an offer it is to good to be true...

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That's the same as saying theft is amongst its participants and should not concern authorities or the country... If this were the case, there would not be a suggestions section here? It was never a debatable topic...

Perhaps i am miss-understanding something here. As such i would like to apologize to the players, moderators and developers whom i might have insulted with my lack of intelligence. It was not my intention and i will continue to play this game and hopefully too enjoy it further...

Thank you for your responses.

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Originally Posted by LetTheMusicPlay

I notice sometimes players trade at less than maximum price. Sincere question: why? Is it because a trader might not have enough coins to cover the transaction?

If you trade at max price, then if one trader skips out on the trade, at least the selling player won't lose out on coins. It's disappointing if the items you were expecting never show up. But it must burn all the more when the other party snagged your goods for a low price.

(p.s. That's a very nice piece of moderating there, Kolonitstje1. I know folks are a little heated, but I appreciate how you explained the situation with strength as well with some compassion and gentle tones.)

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Oh gosh thank you so much! :o

As a player I don't like the scamming as much as the next player and yes I do understand the concerns however we do have to protect the innocent here.

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Originally Posted by Smoothe

That's the same as saying theft is amongst its participants and should not concern authorities or the country... If this were the case, there would not be a suggestions section here? It was never a debatable topic...

Perhaps i am miss-understanding something here. As such i would like to apologize to the players, moderators and developers whom i might have insulted with my lack of intelligence. It was not my intention and i will continue to play this game and hopefully too enjoy it further...

Thank you for your responses.

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No that's not the same. Countries have laws against that so they are also responsible to uphold them.
There is a difference between allowing something and supporting / endorsing it. A safe way to trade is simply not part of the game nor will it be in the forseeable future. I'll ask it again, how would you feel if someone started a thread and called you out for stealing or scamming a trade ? I don't think anyone would like that very much.

I am rarely moved to post on this forum these days, for reasons I will not go into. However, this has been on my mind for a long while, probably since starting the game back last October.

Trading.

If it causes so much upset, annoyance, heartache, stress, etc... don't bother!!!

There is a reason SuperCell didn't put a trading facility in the game originally and have still not done so despite repeated requests for it. Why can't everyone just play the game in the way it was intended? Find your tools and expansion materials on your own farm, in the Daily Dirt, in neighbouring shops. Short of crops? Grow them! Short of produce? Make the items! That's part of the enjoyment of the game.

I'm not going to stick around and argue the point because it doesn't interest me to have a war of words on a gaming forum, but I felt it was time to express my opinion on something for once. And it is MY opinion. I'm not saying you have to agree and I'm sure the avid traders will say it's what the game is all about. Well, get this... it isn't, or people far more intelligent and knowledgeable in the game designing world than you are would've written it into Hay Day from the outset.

Get the knives out if you so choose. I won't lose any time reading your comments.

For the moderators: If this post is deleted, you really will have confirmed that we are not allowed to express our own opinions on what is, ostensibly, an open forum.

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Originally Posted by Smoothe

That's the same as saying theft is amongst its participants and should not concern authorities or the country... If this were the case, there would not be a suggestions section here? It was never a debatable topic...

Perhaps i am miss-understanding something here. As such i would like to apologize to the players, moderators and developers whom i might have insulted with my lack of intelligence. It was not my intention and i will continue to play this game and hopefully too enjoy it further...

Thank you for your responses.

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In my opinion, you come across as very intelligent :) And also very justified in your anger. If I were scammed in a trade, then I would want to torch the bast*rd. It's so unfair, and anyone with a sense of justice is going to empathize/sympathize with people who are taken advantage of. And it truly blows to think the culprit might "get away" with it when they've done wrong.

And even though Supercell does not have the investigative/due-process powers to adjudicate these trades gone wrong, they do have the authority to ban members who break stated forum rules.

Upthread there was mention of a known scammer who has multiple accounts. Take advantage of that. Report them and see what the admins can do. They might be able to ban them by I.P. number.

Even the U.S. government - as powerful as it is - is unable to convict people of some truly heinous crimes like murder, etc. But sometimes they luck out and they get the bad guys anyway, by prosecuting them for things like tax fraud. Follow that trail ...

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Originally Posted by Kolonistje1

Oh gosh thank you so much! :o

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You're welcome. :)

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Originally Posted by LetTheMusicPlay

I notice sometimes players trade at less than maximum price. Sincere question: why? Is it because a trader might not have enough coins to cover the transaction?

If you trade at max price, then if one trader skips out on the trade, at least the selling player won't lose out on coins. It's disappointing if the items you were expecting never show up. But it must burn all the more when the other party snagged your goods for a low price.

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Speaking only for myself, I trade at the price my trading partner and I agree on. Price is an essential component of any trade, and should ALWAYS be clearly discussed. Some traders ask for max price both ways, some want to trade at default for speed, and some ask me to sell at 1 coin and buy from them at max -- I am willing to do this if they are at a point in the game where they still need to buy machines (with the town that is every level I guess). I even post that "I buy at max and sell at 1 coin" in my trade requests sometimes, and the responders will still want to trade at the price they want to trade at -- usually default both ways.

Some traders believe that 10 bolts in the last box of a shop at 2700 coins are less attractive to snipers (variously defined as lurkers who spot a trade about to happen and swoop in to buy the goods OR as random players scrolling through your shop who buy the goods not knowing about a trade in progress). I think that 10 bolts in the last box at any price will disappear as soon as someone sees them. Price is not usually an issue when rare expansion materials are exposed in the shop.

At my level coins are irrelevant. I wont feel a "loss" of the max coins if my partner scams me. I WILL feel the loss of the digital items that don't exist -- which I why I buy first from traders I have not traded with before, and seek out my trusted trader network before I hit the public trading threads (as a last resort).

I also am not usually doing the smaller trades -- my last trade involved a total of 235 items with a very trusted partner at level 100+. Another recent trade was 40 bolts for 40 planks -- again, with a trusted partner in the high 70s. I also have trusted partners in the mid-30s, high 40s, mid-50s -- in every level I have been able to form trusted trading relationships with players by being a fast and efficient trader, offering fair ratios, being polite and understanding, and very VERY clear about the terms of trades.

I also communicate before, during, and after the trade with Kik or forum PMs or FB IMs. Communication is critical, because math or item mistakes are made, people get phone calls (many play HD on their phone like I did) and batteries die. <-- ANOTHER reason not to allow name and shame.

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Originally Posted by LetTheMusicPlay

(p.s. That's a very nice piece of moderating there, Kolonitstje1. I know folks are a little heated, but I appreciate how you explained the situation with strength as well with some compassion and gentle tones.)

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Agreed.

Once I had a trading partner angrily accuse me of shorting him in a large trade of several items. I checked my math and the screenshots showing how many bins of goods he bought, and how many of the items I had before and after the trade -- all showing that he bought everything we agreed to. He still persisted in the incorrect belief that I had shorted him, and named me very vitriolically on the trading forum as a scammer in MULTIPLE POSTS, calling me out, accusing me of not responding to him (when I was PMing him the whole time, trying not to get banned from the forum). After he discovered his mistake, he apologized -- in a PM -- HOURS later.

Fortunately, his naming and shaming posts got deleted VERY QUICKLY before my reputation as a fair and honest trader was irreparably harmed (Kolonostje -- I think you helped me with that. Maybe it was Kendra. It was a LOOOOONG time ago). He was banned for a period of time, and when he was allowed back on, the first person he kiked for a trade from the trading thread was . . . ME!! I declined, respectfully ha ha --

So I agree with the no name and shame rule -- and here is another good one: Caveat Trader.

You posted this in another spot. Seems like you really do care and have an axe to grind.

I've seen many posts in the past where SC moderators were like "you should have used PM's instead then we could have done something" when a trade goes bad. So why is everyone saying KIK only instead of PM's on the trade threads? It seems to be rampant. Did something change.

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Originally Posted by Kodama

I've seen many posts in the past where SC moderators were like "you should have used PM's instead then we could have done something" when a trade goes bad. So why is everyone saying KIK only instead of PM's on the trade threads? It seems to be rampant. Did something change.

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I use use Kik because it is faster than forum PMs -- that's all :)

I also have not had forum mods offer to help when a trade goes bad -- and I don't expect them to. I know that trading is tolerated (but not supported) by SC and is not part of the game design. I know that I trade at my own risk, and that if I get scammed there is no recourse through SC. For me, it has nevertheless been worth it to "roll the dice" by trading -- but then I have also been very lucky since I have never been scammed. I have had a couple of close calls but have been lucky so far to sniff out the squirrels --

Thanks for the extensive, thoughtful answer to my question, PerkyCox. :)

Especially this:

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Originally Posted by PerkyCox

some want to trade at default for speed

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This was the answer to the question that I didn't have enough experience/knowledge to articulate. Mystery solved on the default prices. Of course, it's faster than resetting the price to max or something else. Curiosity satisfied here.

For heaven's sake. Again??? This has to come up again????????

Just what part of "trading is at your own risk" and "trading is not supported by SC" is so hard to comprehend???

If you can't accept the risk then don't trade. Period. If "we" aren't careful SC (who owns this forum and has every right to decide what the rules are) will finally lose patience once and for all and close the trading thread. That would be a shame, as the vast majority of trades go off without a hitch.

PS: Mods, you have my sympathy for once again having to deal with this topic. Your level of patience is remarkable!!