Q&A: Wall Breaker AI and how it works

A Wall Breaker’s ultimate goal in life is to liberate buildings that are trapped (fully or partially) by walls :D

How does the Wall Breaker choose its target? Steps 1, 2, 3
1. It will look for the nearest building/turret that is trapped (fully or partially) by walls
2. It will choose the shortest path towards that building and blow up walls that are in its way
3. After the wall is blown up, it will choose the next building that is still trapped by walls, run straight towards it, and blow up walls that are in its way

So Wall Breakers don’t target walls anymore?!?!!1!!!!?
No. Instead of targeting walls, they aim for the main prize, a building that is trapped by walls. The wall just happens to be in its way, and has to be blown up.
That building is the reason why you need that wall taken down, right?

Do Wall Breakers attack buildings?
No. They aim for the building and blow up the wall that is in their path.

Do Wall Breakers favorite junctions?
No. The Wall Breaker will run in a straight line towards the nearest building. When it encounters a wall, it blows it up.

Can I fool Wall Breakers by using spikes or short decoy wall sections?
No. They won't be fooled by those.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marika[Supercell]

How does the Wall Breaker choose its target? Steps 1, 2, 3
1. It will look for the nearest building/turret that is trapped by walls
2. It will choose the shortest path towards that building and blow up walls that are in its way
3. After the wall is blown up, it will choose the next building that is still trapped by walls, run straight towards it, and blow up walls that are in its way

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Does it consider how many layers of walls are in the way it the shortest path calculation?

It seems more like a nerf than a buff. The old wallbreaker works better, just takes a bit of aiming and accuracy.

thanks for the guide!!! It makes more sense now.
I haven't had much difficulty with the new A.I... so I'm pleased :cool:

edit:
also noticed they are much stronger??
their damage range... looks much bigger now

does a circle with 1 gate works? does the wallbreakers walk into the gate?

Does the building have to be completely encircled by walls to be considered "trapped" or just mostly encircled? Or just a row of walls in between the WB and the building?

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Originally Posted by jchung

Does the building have to be completely encircled by walls to be considered "trapped" or just mostly encircled? Or just a row of walls in between the WB and the building?

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Trapped
adj - forced to turn and face attackers

What, you said define it

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Originally Posted by Marika[Supercell]

So Wall Breakers don’t target walls anymore?!?!!1!!!!?
No. Instead of targeting walls, they aim for the main prize, a building that is trapped by walls. The wall just happens to be in its way, and has to be blown up.
That building is the reason why you need that wall taken down, right?

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If you make them target buildings now, rename it to building breaker, it would make more sense

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Originally Posted by lol4657

If you make them target buildings now, rename it to building breaker, it would make more sense

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marika[Supercell]

Do Wall Breakers attack buildings?
No. They aim for the building and blow up the wall that is in their path.

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wallbreaker still seems to make more sense to me... :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by lol4657

If you make them target buildings now, rename it to building breaker, it would make more sense

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Dude you are killing me with that lime color

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Originally Posted by GorillaMan

Dude you are killing me with that lime color

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Sorry​.....

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Originally Posted by GorillaMan

Dude you are killing me with that lime color

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Haha me 2, my eyes is starting to hurt...

Anyways, i like the new AI, specially because it seems to have a larger area splash damage, if theres a double wall it will blast them both :)

Hmm.. a simplified guide for the masses, I guess this is sufficient at a basic level.

So I figured it out all on my own already, ahaha.

Thanks Marika,

Hopefully this will bring some clarity to the people who just complain about things they don't understand.

no mentioning about how u have to drop (sequence) wb's makes that summary kinda pointless :p

dropping them in small numbers doesn't work anymore because they "may" go for the closest enclosed building or just simply opening up an already open compartment even more (lost just 6 WB's due to it), but dropping like 4 or more will make them continue from the point they just blew the wall instead of checking from where u dropped them or u have to cleanbuildings first.

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Originally Posted by doax

thanks for the guide!!! It makes more sense now.
I haven't had much difficulty with the new A.I... so I'm pleased :cool:

edit:
also noticed they are much stronger??
their damage range... looks much bigger now

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Their damage is still the same, they just make a better use of what they have :)

"That building is the reason why you need that wall taken down, right?"

Marika, sometimes you need a wall taken down to create a shortcut to access further base compartments with walls surrounding them. So in essence, no, to get to a building is not the only reason you might want to blow up walls.

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Originally Posted by woutie3000

does a circle with 1 gate works? does the wallbreakers walk into the gate?

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They will walk through the gate, if that is the shortest way to the nearest building. Note that the nearest building has to be surrounded by an intact circle of wall, so that the building can be a valid target for the Wall Breaker.

what if all the walls are just segments of 3 to 5 wall pieces intermingled around defenses and other buildings.
ie. a lot of small wall groupings of 3-5 walls max.

Then what would they hit?

firstly, thanks for the post marika it is well appreciated to get some additional details regarding the AI, and it shows you guys are responding to feedback!

secondly, in the odd scenario or two i have seen the wb's go for walls that do not enclose buildings before attacking walls that do enclose buildings. this isn't happening consistently but it does seem to happen. here is a post with some pictures i took:
http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...l=1#post260268

would this type of behavior be a bug or are there scenarios where these types of walls would be targeted over others?

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Originally Posted by Marika[Supercell]

Their damage is still the same, they just make a better use of what they have :)

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sorry for the double post, we've noticed they now take out both layers of a double wall now, is this because they detonate closer but use the same range as before?

one more question with regards to making best use of what they have, does this mean the will in any way prioritize a target where they can blow up more walls (but still complete their quest of liberating a building)?

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Originally Posted by Marika[Supercell]

They will walk through the gate, if that is the shortest way to the nearest building. Note that the nearest building has to be surrounded by an intact circle of wall, so that the building can be a valid target for the Wall Breaker.

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What happens if there are no buildings surrounded by walls at all? For example if walls form spiral.

The new wall breakers aren't Farmer friendly, I wish I had the old ones back 😪

If tesla's are traps then why do wallbreakers target walls surrounding them? I sent my 1 wallbreaker, then a tesla appeared, (YOU SAID IT WAS A TRAP NOT A BUILDING), the rest of the wallbreakers went to the walls surrounding the tesla....

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Originally Posted by Marika[Supercell]

They will walk through the gate, if that is the shortest way to the nearest building. Note that the nearest building has to be surrounded by an intact circle of wall, so that the building can be a valid target for the Wall Breaker.

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Ok Marika, will the new ai target 3 wall pieces that are connected in front of a building or choose to go around and target the wall behind it?

Here is a picture for example...would they take the red path or black path?

I just wanna say that I always use 5xWallbreakers to do work cause its most effective for the value you get. Lets not confuse them now they haven't changed they aren't "building breakers" they are Wall-breakers. The only things that have changed in reality are the AI which will now avoid "spikes" and target walls that are protecting buildings and or defenses, and the troop space required to house them. Before it used to be a 1space unit now it is valued at 2.

Basically take a look at the unveiling video Supercell put out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYx1tNbAXRU

You'll notice that around :24-:28seconds they aren't targeting junctions, they are taking the closest path to the next wall which defends a building. Conveniently here it happens to be next to a junction but it wasn't the target. Instead of the old version where they were basically tossed at a wall and hit the first wall piece they found now they seem more reliable and much more useful. This definitely made breaching walls far easier and for sure it made the whole process simpler.

Good Job fellas.

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Originally Posted by 'Marika[Supercell

Do Wall Breakers favorite junctions?
No. The Wall Breaker will run in a straight line towards the nearest building. When it encounters a wall, it blows it up.

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If I'm understanding this correctly, I'm not sure it's right. I've seen wallbreakers path around long wall projections between them and a walled building provided the projection doesn't enclose buildings.

e: Also, it's nice that you took the effort to explain it better to the community.

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Originally Posted by MINTFLEX

what if all the walls are just segments of 3 to 5 wall pieces intermingled around defenses and other buildings.
ie. a lot of small wall groupings of 3-5 walls max.

Then what would they hit?

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I was curious about that too, turns out that then they will go for the smaller groupings of wall :)

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Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter

firstly, thanks for the post marika it is well appreciated to get some additional details regarding the AI, and it shows you guys are responding to feedback!

secondly, in the odd scenario or two i have seen the wb's go for walls that do not enclose buildings before attacking walls that do enclose buildings. this isn't happening consistently but it does seem to happen. here is a post with some pictures i took:
http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...l=1#post260268

would this type of behavior be a bug or are there scenarios where these types of walls would be targeted over others?

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Awesome that you had screenshots!!!! I will take this to our team, we have to reproduce this :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marika[Supercell]

A Wall Breaker’s ultimate goal in life is to liberate buildings that are trapped by walls :D

How does the Wall Breaker choose its target? Steps 1, 2, 3
1. It will look for the nearest building/turret that is trapped by walls
2. It will choose the shortest path towards that building and blow up walls that are in its way
3. After the wall is blown up, it will choose the next building that is still trapped by walls, run straight towards it, and blow up walls that are in its way

So Wall Breakers don’t target walls anymore?!?!!1!!!!?
No. Instead of targeting walls, they aim for the main prize, a building that is trapped by walls. The wall just happens to be in its way, and has to be blown up.
That building is the reason why you need that wall taken down, right?

Do Wall Breakers attack buildings?
No. They aim for the building and blow up the wall that is in their path.

Do Wall Breakers favorite junctions?
No. The Wall Breaker will run in a straight line towards the nearest building. When it encounters a wall, it blows it up.

What if the nearest building (still trapped by walls) is on the other edge of the village?
The Wall Breaker will run there.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marika[Supercell]

They will walk through the gate, if that is the shortest way to the nearest building. Note that the nearest building has to be surrounded by an intact circle of wall, so that the building can be a valid target for the Wall Breaker.

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Hi Marika - I have a specific example I came across which I think needs some explaining.


I had six WBs to use on the base below. I deployed all six from location WB at different times throughout the battle.

The first 4 were successful - penetrating through all layers WWWWWWWWW
My army was happily destroying this village but became bunched up at location 'pppppppppp'

So I sent in my final two WB's to take out section 'pppppppppp' figuring the WB's would want to liberate 'Cannon2' (being the only building/turret trapped by walls...) and head for either 'pppppppppp' or 'ccccccccc' (as the shortest distance to 'ccccccccc' would be going through 'pppppppppp').


***However. both WB's headed straight for section Z!!!!!


I'm a bit confused as 'Cannon2' was the only building/turret trapped. What happened here? This is a very straight forward example where the AI did not act as expected.
I am a fan of the new AI - But the former AI would have gone straight through...


Sorry for the picture. I constructed it in comment but would not fit...


Attachment 4367

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cknife187

I just wanna say that I always use 5xWallbreakers to do work cause its most effective for the value you get. Lets not confuse them now they haven't changed they aren't "building breakers" they are Wall-breakers. The only things that have changed in reality are the AI which will now avoid "spikes" and target walls that are protecting buildings and or defenses, and the troop space required to house them. Before it used to be a 1space unit now it is valued at 2.

Basically take a look at the unveiling video Supercell put out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYx1tNbAXRU

You'll notice that around :24-:28seconds they aren't targeting junctions, they are taking the closest path to the next wall which defends a building. Conveniently here it happens to be next to a junction but it wasn't the target. Instead of the old version where they were basically tossed at a wall and hit the first wall piece they found now they seem more reliable and much more useful. This definitely made breaching walls far easier and for sure it made the whole process simpler.

Good Job fellas.

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Well put!! Thank you sir!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marika[Supercell]

I was curious about that too, turns out that then they will go for the smaller groupings of wall :)

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In this video the small groupings of walls intermingled with buildings don't draw, although perhaps there's a different configuration that does.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marika[Supercell]

Do Wall Breakers favorite junctions?
No. The Wall Breaker will run in a straight line towards the nearest building. When it encounters a wall, it blows it up.

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Here is a video to prove the above statement false.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9CxoOQ3WWc

There is no specific "shape" as of how the new WB will run.
Notice how the wall breaker did an awesome U turn in the vid haha.

They will simply pre-target the nearest and the shortest path of walls of a compartment that encloses a building/turret.

Then again, the above FAQ is meant to be generalized.
So yeah, if the community understands them, then so be it.

Good job stepping up and creating an FAQ as a Supercell Staff btw, its certainly different if this FAQ was posted by a community member.

I would like to hope that majority of the players understand the wall breaker AI, but then again, after the wall breaker AI is understood, defending will really be HELL.. haha..

Oh well, there is always the bell curve. :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hannibal

In this video the small groupings of walls intermingled with buildings don't draw, although perhaps there's a different configuration that does.

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Hannibal, take note that the initial question was

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MINTFLEX

what if all the walls are just segments of 3 to 5 wall pieces intermingled around defenses and other buildings.
ie. a lot of small wall groupings of 3-5 walls max.

Then what would they hit?

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MINTFLEX was referring to "All the walls", and not just 5 walls being taken out of a "proper base"

All the walls. Got it.

Red line - Where I wanted it to go
Black line - Where it went instead

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lol4657

Red line - Where I wanted it to go
Black line - Where it went instead

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I *think* that If that cannon was destroyed first, then they may have took the red path you wanted.

*Edit* Looking at it closer, I believe they would have just targeted the opposite cannon wall then...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RagEho

Hi Marika - I have a specific example I came across which I think needs some explaining.


I had six WBs to use on the base below. I deployed all six from location WB at different times throughout the battle.

The first 4 were successful - penetrating through all layers WWWWWWWWW
My army was happily destroying this village but became bunched up at location 'pppppppppp'

So I sent in my final two WB's to take out section 'pppppppppp' figuring the WB's would want to liberate 'Cannon2' (being the only building/turret trapped by walls...) and head for either 'pppppppppp' or 'ccccccccc' (as the shortest distance to 'ccccccccc' would be going through 'pppppppppp').


***However. both WB's headed straight for section Z!!!!!


I'm a bit confused as 'Cannon2' was the only building/turret trapped. What happened here? This is a very straight forward example where the AI did not act as expected.
I am a fan of the new AI - But the former AI would have gone straight through...


Sorry for the picture. I constructed it in comment but would not fit...


Attachment 4367

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Always remember one point.
If a wall breaker is unable to detect any "suitable wall" to boom(look up first page for criteria for "suitable wall"), the wall breaker will just go for the closest wall possible.

And in your case.
1) That scenario was really pushing the limits of the wall breaker, asking it to tunnel 90% of a base that undergo many variable changes(after a battle)
2) The gap between cccccccc and pppppp was too huge such that the wall breaker wasn't able to detect the cannon.

Then again, thats a really tricky tunneling motion lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lol4657

Red line - Where I wanted it to go
Black line - Where it went instead

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Nothing wrong.

The distance to the nearest wall for the Black line was smaller than the distance to the nearest wall for red line.

Don't believe me ? Take a ruler and measure yourself.
On my laptop screen, the black line was 2 cm whereas the red line was 3.5cm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lol4657

Red line - Where I wanted it to go
Black line - Where it went instead

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Same distance between each wall. Not a good example.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lol4657

Red line - Where I wanted it to go
Black line - Where it went instead

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That's explainable based on WB liberation obsession

Just need to ask, a bit off topic sorry, can you block people on the forums? Cuz the color is killin this lol guys lime text

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Originally Posted by Junliang

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http://forum.supercell.net/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Marika[Supercell]http://forum.supercell.net/images/bu...post-right.pngDo Wall Breakers favorite junctions?No. The Wall Breaker will run in a straight line towards the nearest building. When it encounters a wall, it blows it up.

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Here is a video to prove the above statement false.

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It would seem there's some prioritization for easiness going on since the wbs ran around to the right to blow up the 2x layers inside, instead of left to get the 3x.

Here is a more accurate picture.

3.5 CM vs 2.4 CM, of course it went for the black arrow.

http://i47.tinypic.com/vy43d0.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trout

It would seem there's some prioritization for easiness going on since the wbs ran around to the right to blow up the 2x layers inside, instead of left to get the 3x.

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Yup, the "thickness of walls" and "amount of layers of walls" to clear, matters in the pre-targeting of a path that they deem as "Shortest Path"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Junliang

Always remember one point.
If a wall breaker is unable to detect any "suitable wall" to boom(look up first page for criteria for "suitable wall"), the wall breaker will just go for the closest wall possible.

And in your case.
1) That scenario was really pushing the limits of the wall breaker, asking it to tunnel 90% of a base that undergo many variable changes(after a battle)
2) The gap between cccccccc and pppppp was too huge such that the wall breaker wasn't able to detect the cannon.

Then again, thats a really tricky tunneling motion lol.

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Thanks Junliang - a formidable attempt to explain what happened... and my be accurate. But based on Marika's comment below...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marika[Supercell]

What if the nearest building (still trapped by walls) is on the other edge of the village?
The Wall Breaker will run there.

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I believe the WB should have run straight there. Distance should not play a factor. We should have seen *red arrow path on attached


Edit: This type of maneuver would not have been an issue for original WB AI


Attachment 4369

Does this mean I need to use my double walls somewhere else?

Hello Marika Soulmate,

Nice to see you graciously offer an explanation to the community. I hope it quiets down the temperature and squawking.

One point of clarification is the "greater blast radius". It was an unexpected boost to WBs. Out of curiosity, could you elaborate what it is doing?

I had written a mellow response in another thread, which I hope you have a chance to scan at some point. Not everyone is up in arms. And I hope your head isn't spinning with the typical post-update noise.

http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...edback-on-3-54


IllustrisJr, Related to Illustris the Dancer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RagEho

Thanks Junliang - a formidable attempt to explain what happened... and my be accurate. But based on Marika's comment below...I believe the WB should have run straight there. Distance should not play a factor. We should have seen *red arrow path on attachedEdit: This type of maneuver would not have been an issue for original WB AIAttachment 4369

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Given what we know about the new AI, it makes sense that they didn't go to 'pppp' since that's not on an enclosed wall, but based on what Marika said, they should've gone around the loop for 'ccccc' ... or failing that, gone all the way around the outside for the x's surrounding the cannon up top. Perhaps it's as Junliang said, that that's too much to expect outta the WB AI.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RagEho

Thanks Junliang - a formidable attempt to explain what happened... and my be accurate. But based on Marika's comment below...





I believe the WB should have run straight there. Distance should not play a factor. We should have seen *red arrow path on attached


Edit: This type of maneuver would not have been an issue for original WB AI


Attachment 4369

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Hmm.. but you know, the fact still remains, that there is no building/turrets behind the "cccccccc" walls.
So technically, they do not have a reason to blast "ccccc"

And I would assume the distance between "cccccc" and "pppppp" is atleast 3 space long(for a building to fit in).

As of now, I do not have an answer to that then haha.

Regarding old WB, they will not hit "cccccc" either.

If you check out the old WB discussion thread: http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...n-Thread/page9

We sorta agree that 9 spaces was the limit for the old wall breaker.

The Old wall breaker will follow the Red arrow and tunnel through 3 layers, before following the blue arrow and anyhow suicide.
http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/v...ps3a81f9ee.jpg

There is no New AI.

Sux,

they Run chaotic anywhere, nö matter in a Building is trapped, they go random Some Direction.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marika[Supercell]

A Wall Breaker’s ultimate goal in life is to liberate buildings that are trapped by walls :D

How does the Wall Breaker choose its target? Steps 1, 2, 3
1. It will look for the nearest building/turret that is trapped by walls
2. It will choose the shortest path towards that building and blow up walls that are in its way
3. After the wall is blown up, it will choose the next building that is still trapped by walls, run straight towards it, and blow up walls that are in its way

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This explains why the funneling maze I designed for wall breakers failed as they just went straight towards the centre haha. In general I find these new wallbreakers overpowered (there is only so many segments a TH 7 can make right?)

However I did notice one odd behaviour with them that your points didn't cover. Sorry no picture as it was a raid on my end, but consider a simple rectangular base with sides ABCD. I used barbs and archers surrounding sides A and B clearing out the outside buildings. Then I wanted to breach both sides for less splash damage. I dropped 2 wallbreakers on side A and they made an opening thus liberating all buildings. I then dropped 2 wallbreakers on side B but instead of creating a new opening on side B they ran over to side A and targeted the two adjacent walls of the opening.

So what happens when there are no trapped buildings; what will it target? Would it have been different if I attacked from sides A and C opposite ends) or is this some form of hysteresis? When I used them on goblin missions (where most buildings are technically already free), the breakers simply destroys the nearest wall when there are no "boxes" in play. Why the anomaly?

The new WB AI is to pretty much clear out all the buildings in the first row behind the walls before using another wallbreaker or it'll keep breaking the first layer of walls.

Here's a thought Supercell, f the new Q&A and change the WB AI to the original.

Let's be real, all you doing right now is make looting harder. Majority doesn't like the idea so change it back so don't give us 'Chief this, Chief that' ♥♥ on fb. Honestly read user's feedback and cater to it, aren't we the ones making you guys money. What is your reason to changing something that isn't broken. My theory is that you make loots harder so people will actually find buying gold and elixir with GEMS acceptable again, if so greedier by the update.

Change it back or release an official statement of why the wallbreaker needed to be change, why change what isn't broken. Please, I'm all ears.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trout

Given what we know about the new AI, it makes sense that they didn't go to 'pppp' since that's not on an enclosed wall, but based on what Marika said, they should've gone around the loop for 'ccccc' ... or failing that, gone all the way around the outside for the x's surrounding the cannon up top. Perhaps it's as Junliang said, that that's too much to expect outta the WB AI.

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Hi Trout,
I respectfully disagree - Based on Marika's comment below

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marika[Supercell]

How does the Wall Breaker choose its target? Steps 1, 2, 3
1. It will look for the nearest building/turret that is trapped by walls
2. It will choose the shortest path towards that building and blow up walls that are in its way

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1. The nearest building/turret trapped is cannon2
2. The shortest distance is THROUGH 'pppppp' to get to 'ccccccc'

Of course, that is my opinion. WB AI clearly thought useless kamikaze was much better idea. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Junliang

Hmm.. but you know, the fact still remains, that there is no building/turrets behind the "cccccccc" walls.
So technically, they do not have a reason to blast "ccccc"

And I would assume the distance between "cccccc" and "pppppp" is atleast 3 space long(for a building to fit in).

As of now, I do not have an answer to that then haha.

Regarding old WB, they will not hit "cccccc" either.

If you check out the old WB discussion thread: http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...n-Thread/page9

We sorta agree that 9 spaces was the limit for the old wall breaker.

The Old wall breaker will follow the Red arrow and tunnel through 3 layers, before following the blue arrow and anyhow suicide.
http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/v...ps3a81f9ee.jpg

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Hi Junliang

Kindly see my comments to Trout as they apply here as well. They explain why I think 'pppppp' should have been blasted... and then 'ccccccc'. There is a turret behind 'cccccccc'.
Although, I think circling all the way around to get to 'ccccccc' would be epic, but probably not plausible...


hmmm - However... You might be onto something regarding old WB AI - once I think about it some more...
I will coincide you are probably right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shenlong

This explains why the funneling maze I designed for wall breakers failed as they just went straight towards the centre haha. In general I find these new wallbreakers overpowered (there is only so many segments a TH 7 can make right?)

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Yeah it's interesting. There must be a length at which the AI decides that a funnel plan represents too long a path. Or something along the lines of: if it can't find a path to a boxed building within "X" squares it blows a hole to get there. I think we've all seen the videos of wallbreakers running around long projections to get at bases, but it must only work within a relatively short optimal path length, say under 15 squares or something. A friend who ran the "floating maze" plan I was playing with last night says that wallbreakers definitely blew a hole in the corner when he was attacked.

So...

Egg Crate Designs: Dead
Funnel/Maze Designs: Dead
Strip/Spike Designs: Dead
Grid Designs: We have a winner!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hannibal

Yeah it's interesting. There must be a length at which the AI decides that a funnel plan represents too long a path. Or something along the lines of: if it can't find a path to a boxed building within "X" squares it blows a hole to get there. I think we've all seen the videos of wallbreakers running around long projections to get at bases, but it must only work within a relatively short optimal path length, say under 15 squares or something. A friend who ran the "floating maze" plan I was playing with last night says that wallbreakers definitely blew a hole in the corner when he was attacked.

So...

Egg Crate Designs: Dead
Funnel/Maze Designs: Dead
Strip/Spike Designs: Dead
Grid Designs: We have a winner!

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grid designs as in each building has a box around it? segmented, bulkheads etc?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RagEho

Hi Trout,
I respectfully disagree - Based on Marika's comment below

1. The nearest building/turret trapped is cannon2
2. The shortest distance is THROUGH 'pppppp' to get to 'ccccccc'

Of course, that is my opinion. WB AI clearly thought useless kamikaze was much better idea. :D

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I just started playing CoC a week ago, and only joined the boards today, but I must say I'm impressed with the level of discourse so far. I mean, sure there are always trolls, but it's nice not having to swim through an ocean of drivel to find the quality. I'm certainly glad I came here yesterday to find out when maintenance would be over. I had no idea such a change was in the offing.

I stand corrected that they should've gone through P to get to C, if we go on what Marika described, but the fact they didn't just further demonstrates what Jin's been saying about a max distance the WBs will use in their calculations. I suspect had you deployed WBs at 12 o'clock, they'd have blown up the box around Cannon2.

New Wall Breakers SUCK!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trout

I suspect had you deployed WBs at 12 o'clock, they'd have blown up the box around Cannon2.

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Probably true, but a hole into Cannon2 from the outside does little good when your troops are deployed on the inside of the base...

WB AI 3.0 should really try to take the positions of already deployed troops into account when pathing

New wall breakers suck. At least bring back the old ones too. The new ones never go to the second level. They are a waste

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrAwesomeFaucker

New wall breakers suck. At least bring back the old ones too. The new ones never go to the second level. They are a waste

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wanted31

New Wall Breakers SUCK!

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Lol.. I love reading such comments.. so well thought out :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ericxd

The new WB AI is to pretty much clear out all the buildings in the first row behind the walls before using another wallbreaker or it'll keep breaking the first layer of walls.

Here's a thought Supercell, f the new Q&A and change the WB AI to the original.

Let's be real, all you doing right now is make looting harder. Majority doesn't like the idea so change it back so don't give us 'Chief this, Chief that' ♥♥ on fb. Honestly read user's feedback and cater to it, aren't we the ones making you guys money. What is your reason to changing something that isn't broken. My theory is that you make loots harder so people will actually find buying gold and elixir with GEMS acceptable again, if so greedier by the update.

Change it back or release an official statement of why the wallbreaker needed to be change, why change what isn't broken. Please, I'm all ears.

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If you read through the 1000 pages at the general sub forum, Supercell reasoning was that the initial wall breaker made no "sense", as it was being attrached to spikes in the first place.

Regarding the complaints, its hard for people to make a change, or accept a change.
If its comfortable for them, who wants to change ?

But guess what, even supercell came up with an official "FAQ" for the new wall breaker, which means that 90% the new wall breaker AI is here to stay.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RagEho

Hi Trout,
I respectfully disagree - Based on Marika's comment below

1. The nearest building/turret trapped is cannon2
2. The shortest distance is THROUGH 'pppppp' to get to 'ccccccc'

Of course, that is my opinion. WB AI clearly thought useless kamikaze was much better idea. :D

Hi Junliang

Kindly see my comments to Trout as they apply here as well. They explain why I think 'pppppp' should have been blasted... and then 'ccccccc'. There is a turret behind 'cccccccc'.
Although, I think circling all the way around to get to 'ccccccc' would be epic, but probably not plausible...

hmmm - However... You might be onto something regarding old WB AI - once I think about it some more...
I will coincide you are probably right.

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Haha, I think your situation now is similar to the one hannibal posted below.

What is the maximum distance for tunneling path such that it is deemed "too far" for a wall breaker to tunnel, such that it will either A) Find the closest wall and suicide, or B) Blast its way through to get to that "enclosed building's compartment

Either way, good try :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hannibal

Yeah it's interesting. There must be a length at which the AI decides that a funnel plan represents too long a path. Or something along the lines of: if it can't find a path to a boxed building within "X" squares it blows a hole to get there. I think we've all seen the videos of wallbreakers running around long projections to get at bases, but it must only work within a relatively short optimal path length, say under 15 squares or something. A friend who ran the "floating maze" plan I was playing with last night says that wallbreakers definitely blew a hole in the corner when he was attacked.

So...

Egg Crate Designs: Dead
Funnel/Maze Designs: Dead
Strip/Spike Designs: Dead
Grid Designs: We have a winner!

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Short Strip can be awesome at "directing" wall breakers to spring traps :p

Grid design wise, i think the best is to have some grids protruding out, some protruding in, and make sure there are NO T junction, and taking into account the increased splash radius of the wall breaker, such that blast of a single junction doesnt open up 2 compartments :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MINTFLEX

grid designs as in each building has a box around it? segmented, bulkheads etc?

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Yes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trout

I just started playing CoC a week ago, and only joined the boards today, but I must say I'm impressed with the level of discourse so far. I mean, sure there are always trolls, but it's nice not having to swim through an ocean of drivel to find the quality. I'm certainly glad I came here yesterday to find out when maintenance would be over. I had no idea such a change was in the offing.

I stand corrected that they should've gone through P to get to C, if we go on what Marika described, but the fact they didn't just further demonstrates what Jin's been saying about a max distance the WBs will use in their calculations. I suspect had you deployed WBs at 12 o'clock, they'd have blown up the box around Cannon2.

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Oh, welcome to the forum :o

Yeah, think its something got to do with "What is the maximum distance for tunneling path such that it is deemed "too far" for a wall breaker to tunnel, such that it will either A) Find the closest wall and suicide, or B) Blast its way through to get to that "enclosed building's compartment"

Actually a game can be very simple, but there are always people like myself that over complicate things, hahaha :D
Gives my brain a nice work out..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OjesYobe

Probably true, but a hole into Cannon2 from the outside does little good when your troops are deployed on the inside of the base...

WB AI 3.0 should really try to take the positions of already deployed troops into account when pathing

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Agreed, a hole into cannon 2 from the outside is useless for your situation haha.

WB AI 3.0.. maybe 3 months later ya, give it some time haha.

Wow. That was very well thought out. My understanding of Wall Breakers is simple as: deploy next to wall you don't likke. Proceed to watch WBs succeed or fail. Repeat as needed.

We should bring back the old ones and call the new a1's cluster busters

I'd love to have a unit with the old AI. Combining with this one would make a pretty strong combination, but that could be solved with numbers tweaks.

hannibal

Is it okay if i stalk you for ideas on base build like your grid system atmo, as its hard to do so atmo as you have dropped clan ? :)
pompeypaul
clan, bonbee is a cat

gc name pompeypaul63

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hannibal

I'd love to have a unit with the old AI. Combining with this one would make a pretty strong combination, but that could be solved with numbers tweaks.

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Did the maze design work Hannibal?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Junliang

If you read through the 1000 pages at the general sub forum, Supercell reasoning was that the initial wall breaker made no "sense", as it was being attrached to spikes in the first place.

Regarding the complaints, its hard for people to make a change, or accept a change.
If its comfortable for them, who wants to change ?

But guess what, even supercell came up with an official "FAQ" for the new wall breaker, which means that 90% the new wall breaker AI is here to stay.

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You are definitely a minority if you can agree with Supercell's decision. Supercell's initial reasoning is because the original WB made no sense. Lol what a joke. Very good reasoning, as if dancing wizards on the tower not defending properly and archers and barbs attacking useless walls made more sense. Ok there.

All in all, Supercell, your reason will be more valid if you just say we made looting harder and revived the existence of gemming for gold and elixir. "Made no sense" yeah ok there buddy, because there are other crucial features in the game that made no sense as well yet you leave it but decide to change wallbreakers AI...a huge blow for farmers. Deceitful Supercell.

By the way, the new wallbreakers' AI is actually as dumb as archers hitting useless walls. Don't you think if the AI was improved, WB would break the first layer and move on to the second layer because 'THERE'S AN OPENING TO GET CLOSER TO THE CORE'...not break first layer and keep breaking first layer until all buildings behind the first layer is cleared before moving onto the second layer. Improved AI...I don't think so.

worst update ever.

As much as you guys are complaining you fail to notice that nothing has really changed, they still perform the SAME function. They blow up walls, and they do nothing else, that is working as intended. If in the process we can now avoid hitting objects in the way it is a huge improvement. They seem to have improved much since the update and are now a much better addition to the troop deployment. This game was never designed with the intent to control your units after they have been deployed they will act on their own accord and thus do as they want, all you are there for is to give them the nudge they need and point em in the right direction.

Junliang, Hannibal, anyone: care to comment?

Video

Not exactly sure that what Mr. Marika says is 100% accurate.

WB should've gone straight after I destroyed the mortar, no?

What about skipping the egg-crate wall in the second part of the video?

:confused:

"When I finally find all the answers, they change all the questions."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by facescraper

worst update ever.

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I agree. Is there even any point in having walls when a single level 4 wall breaker gets through purple walls and Mr. T jumps over them? Ruined the game for me. Utterly ridiculous.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gimme

Junliang, Hannibal, anyone: care to comment?

Video

Not exactly sure that what Mr. Marika says is 100% accurate.

WB should've gone straight after I destroyed the mortar, no?

What about skipping the egg-crate wall in the second part of the video?

:confused:

"When I finally find all the answers, they change all the questions."

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It looks like it was going to the point of the next "trapped" building where the fewest walls needed to be broken. Since straight would have lead it to a doubled wall it went around to the point where there was a single wall.

So the "fewest walls in between" is definitely a factor I take it.

Basically...

1. It will look for the nearest building/turret that is trapped by walls
2. It will choose the shortest path towards that building and blow up walls that are in its way

is not true, or half true. Other factors must be considered then.

Gonna take some time getting used to but i love the update and the new ai

Do Wall Breakers favorite junctions?
No. The Wall Breaker will run in a straight line towards the nearest building. When it encounters a wall, it blows it up.

Right...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gimme

Junliang, Hannibal, anyone: care to comment?

Video

Not exactly sure that what Mr. Marika says is 100% accurate.

WB should've gone straight after I destroyed the mortar, no?

What about skipping the egg-crate wall in the second part of the video?

:confused:

"When I finally find all the answers, they change all the questions."

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There is a wall in front of the wall, so the WB goes around and targets what it things is the best route. A single wall.

This couldve been a good improvement if they left the ability to "path" them.

They should "path" when spawned at the same spawn point, even if it's not spawning them exactly at the same time, and then function as they do now when deployed at a spot that hasn't yet spawned a wall breaker, ideally.

The problem with the way it is now is the same as the problem before... They are not dependable to get to an unimpeded target. I can deal with them, but the change did not resolve the original community complaints.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JohnNescio

There is a wall in front of the wall, so the WB goes around and targets what it things is the best route. A single wall.

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Exactly. So basically, what the OP suggested is not correct. They do not run in a straight line towards the nearest building.

That's why..
People used to put their gold storage, elixir storage & townhall in the inner wall (which maybe the 2rd-3th layer wall)..
When we attack, we choose to destroy the mentioned above..
therefore, we chose the nearest path..
Previous WB works perfectly..
I put in 1-2 to destroy the 1st layer.. then another 1-2 to destroy the 2nd layer..& etc...
Total usage maybe 6 WB (18k elixir & 6 housing space) can settle in 1 battle..
now the new WB run to the nearest wall (there are so mny nearest wall b4 they can reach the inner layer)...
for us is out of our control.. nw i used up 9 WB for every battle.. which = 27k elixir & 18 housing space..
not worth it..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marika[Supercell]

A Wall Breaker’s ultimate goal in life is to liberate buildings that are trapped by walls :D

How does the Wall Breaker choose its target? Steps 1, 2, 3
1. It will look for the nearest building/turret that is trapped by walls
2. It will choose the shortest path towards that building and blow up walls that are in its way
3. After the wall is blown up, it will choose the next building that is still trapped by walls, run straight towards it, and blow up walls that are in its way

So Wall Breakers don’t target walls anymore?!?!!1!!!!?
No. Instead of targeting walls, they aim for the main prize, a building that is trapped by walls. The wall just happens to be in its way, and has to be blown up.
That building is the reason why you need that wall taken down, right?

Do Wall Breakers attack buildings?
No. They aim for the building and blow up the wall that is in their path.

Do Wall Breakers favorite junctions?
No. The Wall Breaker will run in a straight line towards the nearest building. When it encounters a wall, it blows it up.

What if the nearest building (still trapped by walls) is on the other edge of the village?
The Wall Breaker will run there.

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Just witnessed my wallbreakers running towards a spike that is joined to a wall barrier that's already broken. Is this a bug? I was sure that the spike was not part of a junction of another intact wall barrier.. Gosh I just wasted 15 wallbreakers and I couldn't even get to the core of the base. I miss the good old stupid wallbreakers.. After all they haven't got a brain (it's just a skull) and should be left the way they're meant to behave for a creature without a brain..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lol4657

Red line - Where I wanted it to go
Black line - Where it went instead

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This is not new.
The previous AI of WBs will also for the "Black Line" path.

Ok I already learned know how to use the new wallbreaker even though its very effective , i recon its TOO effective, its pritty much "fire and forget" (plant them on the map and let them find the wall) which throws out the strategic point of this game.
Prompts for the other updates
But the wallbreaker in my opinion should of stayed how it was, it was more fun...waayyy more fun

My experience with the WBs is that it will not crack the inner walls.
For example, if the buildings are walled up in individual "crates" as below (where W is wall and B are buildings):

WWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WW B WW BB WW BB WW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WW B WW B WW BBB WW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

My intention is to destroy the walls in bold to get to the building (bold "B"), but the 2nd batch of WBs dropped will go for the other walls (italic and underlined) instead.

The new AI seems to favour egg crate design layouts as WBs will keep destroying the 1st layer of walls (where buildings are still walled up) instead of the inner walls where the main loot is.

So far this is what I encountered.

So thatsssss why they suck!

E: thanks for the short but extensive guide btw. Now we won't have to spend weeks discussing what we "think" the AI is doing lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Junliang

Lol.. I love reading such comments.. so well thought out :p

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LOL too funny

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ericxd

By the way, the new wallbreakers' AI is actually as dumb as archers hitting useless walls. Don't you think if the AI was improved, WB would break the first layer and move on to the second layer because 'THERE'S AN OPENING TO GET CLOSER TO THE CORE'...not break first layer and keep breaking first layer until all buildings behind the first layer is cleared before moving onto the second layer. Improved AI...I don't think so.

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And you guys are complaining new WB AI dumbs down the game..

what you are basically suggesting is for a wall breaker to go straight into any base, no matter the walls, no matter the buildings and guess what ?

Any tom ♥♥♥♥ and harry can penetrate a base with that AI.

That isn't smart, thats called "Brainless AI" where you do not need to think/use any strategy in order to reach the core with the wonderful loots.

As it is now, people who KNOWS how to use the WB AI can create a path to the loot.
People who DO NOT KNOW how to use the WB AI cries for not being able to reach the loot.

Make sense ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CeJay

Ok I already learned know how to use the new wallbreaker even though its very effective , i recon its TOO effective, its pritty much "fire and forget" (plant them on the map and let them find the wall) which throws out the strategic point of this game.
Prompts for the other updates
But the wallbreaker in my opinion should of stayed how it was, it was more fun...waayyy more fun

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Welcome aboard the "know how to use the new WB effectively" ship mate.

Anyway, we are the minority, so chillax, the majority is still wondering why the hell his wall breaker ran the other way. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gimme

Exactly. So basically, what the OP suggested is not correct. They do not run in a straight line towards the nearest building.

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Yup, I've already made a post and a video to dispute against that statement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shrimpy

My experience with the WBs is that it will not crack the inner walls.
For example, if the buildings are walled up in individual "crates" as below (where W is wall and B are buildings):

WWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WW B WW BB WW BB WW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WW B WW B WW BBB WW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

My intention is to destroy the walls in bold to get to the building (bold "B"), but the 2nd batch of WBs dropped will go for the other walls (italic and underlined) instead.

The new AI seems to favour egg crate design layouts as WBs will keep destroying the 1st layer of walls (where buildings are still walled up) instead of the inner walls where the main loot is.

So far this is what I encountered.

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You have to drop 4 wallbreaker at once, they will go through to the middle if there is no other compartment close by, otherwise they will turn at the spot to that one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PololoP

You have to drop 4 wallbreaker at once, they will go through to the middle if there is no other compartment close by, otherwise they will turn at the spot to that one.

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Will try it out. Thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zombiebender

Does it consider how many layers of walls are in the way it the shortest path calculation?

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Nope, it'll just keep on going through walls until there's nothing left :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cknife187

As much as you guys are complaining you fail to notice that nothing has really changed, they still perform the SAME function. They blow up walls, and they do nothing else, that is working as intended. If in the process we can now avoid hitting objects in the way it is a huge improvement. They seem to have improved much since the update and are now a much better addition to the troop deployment. This game was never designed with the intent to control your units after they have been deployed they will act on their own accord and thus do as they want, all you are there for is to give them the nudge they need and point em in the right direction.

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Agreed! And I am bored of reading. The majority of posts are poorly formed grade school arguments. (maybe a lot of grade schoolers ?) Anyway, thank you for the update, thank you for the game and I will gladly keep dishing out a reasonable amount of money (only $40 on the new update) to enjoy all of your hard work and efforts!! Great job!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter

sorry for the double post, we've noticed they now take out both layers of a double wall now, is this because they detonate closer but use the same range as before?

one more question with regards to making best use of what they have, does this mean the will in any way prioritize a target where they can blow up more walls (but still complete their quest of liberating a building)?

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When they choose their target, they only consider distance :) So they don't prioritize a target where they can blow up more walls.

Yes, the new WB is buggy. It doesn't work 100% according to the logic SC presented. I have seen it doing weird things many times - and yes, I have considered about all the other encircled buildings if any.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RagEho

Hi Marika - I have a specific example I came across which I think needs some explaining.


I had six WBs to use on the base below. I deployed all six from location WB at different times throughout the battle.

The first 4 were successful - penetrating through all layers WWWWWWWWW
My army was happily destroying this village but became bunched up at location 'pppppppppp'

So I sent in my final two WB's to take out section 'pppppppppp' figuring the WB's would want to liberate 'Cannon2' (being the only building/turret trapped by walls...) and head for either 'pppppppppp' or 'ccccccccc' (as the shortest distance to 'ccccccccc' would be going through 'pppppppppp').


***However. both WB's headed straight for section Z!!!!!


I'm a bit confused as 'Cannon2' was the only building/turret trapped. What happened here? This is a very straight forward example where the AI did not act as expected.
I am a fan of the new AI - But the former AI would have gone straight through...


Sorry for the picture. I constructed it in comment but would not fit...


Attachment 4367

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by COBOK

What happens if there are no buildings surrounded by walls at all? For example if walls form spiral.

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In this case they will act as if the buildings were trapped and still act smart :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marika[Supercell]

Nope, it'll just keep on going through walls until there's nothing left :)

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Is that to your understanding or "official response from supercell" ?

Because that is false..

The wall breakers take into account the number of walls that stand inbetween its deployed spot and targeted compartment with building, and take the path with the least amount of walls to break through to reach that building with compartment, even if it means tunneling in a curve motion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marika[Supercell]

When they choose their target, they only consider distance :) So they don't prioritize a target where they can blow up more walls.

---

I had a square 3 layered base yesterday. I send a bunch of wallbreaker centered on one flat side, however they decided to go for a corner which was clearly further away than the direct route.

Is there something else to be considered?

I've posted this before.

A video that backs up my theory of

"The wall breakers take into account the number of walls that stand inbetween its deployed spot and targeted compartment with building, and take the path with the least amount of walls to break through to reach that building with compartment, even if it means tunneling in a curve motion."

As you can see in the vid, the wall breaker didn't blast straight against that single layer of wall, it made a curve to reach that specific location with only 2 walls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9CxoOQ3WWc

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Haloboyvash

Ok Marika, will the new ai target 3 wall pieces that are connected in front of a building or choose to go around and target the wall behind it?

Here is a picture for example...would they take the red path or black path?

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They will take the red path :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hannibal

If I'm understanding this correctly, I'm not sure it's right. I've seen wallbreakers path around long wall projections between them and a walled building provided the projection doesn't enclose buildings.

e: Also, it's nice that you took the effort to explain it better to the community.

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That's a very good point! I updated the Q&A post :) (They won't be fooled by decoys.)