*WB AI* A deep look! Tactics revealed! ~ 1000th post contribution ~

Note: I am fully aware of Junliangs thread about this. I support him and i hope does the same for me. I decided to make this thread because i feel i want to be more specific on terms of defence against these guys.




Hello. I am Fozzie. This is my 1000th post and i want to share with you guys my knowledge on Wall breakers, post update. I have worked hard, and this might be released a little late but the update came out in the middle of the night for me and when i could only download it when i woke up. I also had school today and I have been working hard since. Enjoy!

Defensive tactics against wall breakers!


Spiking -

http://i.imgur.com/p3BVsjj.jpg

No need for any lines to be drawn here. As we expected this tactic is not valid any more Wall breakers simply ignore them, and the only reasons we would still have them is to funnel other troops. Personally, I feel this tactic is now a waste of walls that can be valuable elsewhere.

Wall Strips -

http://i.imgur.com/slk0mbl.jpg

Wall strips were not so effective before because it would take 1-2 WB's to break them. However, post update, we can see they can be effective. Depending on how long your strip is, wall breakers might try to run around the wall strip. This means more time for defences to eliminate the wall breakers before they can do any real damage. Howwever, this all depends on where the attacker chooses to place them.

Buffered Sweet spots -

http://i.imgur.com/7unskOY.jpg

This base I found had a 2 layered 'Buffer'. These are now almost entirely pointless, unless it surrounds a large, if not the whole circumference of your base. With this type of wall strategy, WB's act like other troops by avoiding going for double walls when a single wall is nearby.

Reverse spikes/T-junctions -

http://i.imgur.com/jjl4rlj.jpg

This picture is to solve a debate on these 'reverse spikes'. The first wall breaker was placed, and headed towards the corner, despite the fact i placed him directly in front of the T-Junction. This picture then shows where the 2nd one went, and once again this one was placed in front of the T-Junction.

Wall Strips and spikes combined/1 grid empty space -

http://i.imgur.com/4CpfDBH.jpg

This is just something i thought id test. This tactic could be helpful for funneling wallbreakers into a splash zone or spring trap/s.


WORK IN PROGRESS! (homework time ;( )





Coming soon ~ Single gaps

Any more ideas, leave a comment ill be back on later to read them

I can't wait to test this out later. Please keep updating us.

re: Buffer

If they're going for the green circle, I suspect it's because it's a T, not because it's thinner. I'm pretty unconvinced about wallbreakers detecting wall thickness, although in fairness you don't get much of that at TH9, so I don't get many opportunities to test it. If you really want to prove it, post examples where they go to a thinner area that isn't a T, despite the double wall being closer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hannibal

re: Buffer

If they're going for the green circle, I suspect it's because it's a T, not because it's thinner. I'm pretty unconvinced about wallbreakers detecting wall thickness, although in fairness you don't get much of that at TH9, so I don't get many opportunities to test it. If you really want to prove it, post examples where they go to a thinner area that isn't a T, despite the double wall being closer.

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Actually, I'm going to edit it now to show that WB's won't go for 'T' intersection, or as it was named in another thread, 'inverse spikes' or something along those lines. I just tested it, and I have some pics to prove it!

Make sure you understand the argument on reverse spikes before you go to the effort. People saying it works are saying that the first wb spawn breaks anywhere. They ignore the reverse spike. But after that they target the reverse spikes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hannibal

Make sure you understand the argument on reverse spikes before you go to the effort. People saying it works are saying that the first wb spawn breaks anywhere. They ignore the reverse spike. But after that they target the reverse spikes.

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We will see!

About the "Buffered" sweet spots. The WB's splash radius has been increased to about 1 tile. So double walls are ineffective even if you surround the whole circumference of your base with it. (unless you leave a gap)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nkcpoker

About the "Buffered" sweet spots. The WB's splash radius has been increased to about 1 tile. So double walls are ineffective even if you surround the whole circumference of your base with it. (unless you leave a gap)

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Interesting, will test this out myself if i come across a base like such.



Recent edit: Pictures made much larger, added reverse spikes, and coming soon: Single gaps

Im a bit sad this isnt getting much response, I've put about 4 hours of effort into this and for only 3 feedback. PLEASE give me your feedback, constructive or positive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nkcpoker

About the "Buffered" sweet spots. The WB's splash radius has been increased to about 1 tile. So double walls are ineffective even if you surround the whole circumference of your base with it. (unless you leave a gap)

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I noticed the same... there was a 3 layered wall and I send in some wb's just to have a "the ♥♥♥♥" expression on my face as they punched through like there was nothing.

@Fozzie, knowing how they work is just the same as how to defend against.... and therefore I don't see a reason to have a separate thread for this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PololoP

I noticed the same... there was a 3 layered wall and I send in some wb's just to have a "the ♥♥♥♥" expression on my face as they punched through like there was nothing.

@Fozzie, knowing how they work is just the same as how to defend against.... and therefore I don't see a reason to have a separate thread for this.

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Im sorry, i think that this is different. He had a video showing it against some goblin maps. I am showing a more in-depth guide on defence how-to's against these newly developed creatures.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fozzie

Im sorry, i think that this is different. He had a video showing it against some goblin maps. I am showing a more in-depth guide on defence how-to's against these newly developed creatures.

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Hm, I will be waiting for you to create an anti-new wb base, and i will show you how to crack it :)

The New WB ai certainty opens up attacking strategy tbh.

Off topic: I seriously wonder how many people realize the significance of every single 200 wall breakers that I deployed in the goblin map. How many people can pin point every single of that 200 wall breakers that I've deployed and explain specifically why they target those walls in the video.

If you really want to understand how they work, bring 100 wall breaker to the goblin map. Test your hypothesis, your theories on reverse spikes over there. You will be surprised.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fozzie

Im sorry, i think that this is different. He had a video showing it against some goblin maps. I am showing a more in-depth guide on defence how-to's against these newly developed creatures.

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Frankly he placed 200 wallbreakers and therefore generated a much bigger sample size than yours. That's the reason he went for the goblin villages. No offence however but I don't think anyone will read through 2 separat thread which try to figure out the same and naturally you'll just go for the bigger thread as the chance to find your informations there is bigger. I would just add your pics to his thread to keep all informations close together, rather than spreading it out over several threads.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Junliang

Off topic: I seriously wonder how many people realize the significance of every single 200 wall breakers that I deployed in the goblin. How many people can pin point every single of that 200 wall breakers that I've deployed and explain specifically why they target those walls in the video.

If you really want to understand how they work, bring 100 wall breaker to the goblin map. Test your hypothesis, your theories on reverse spikes over there. You will be surprised.

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Well I was too busy farming old egg layouts with several layers of wall around but I might make an attempt to explain each single one of the "soon".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PololoP

Frankly he placed 200 wallbreakers and therefore generated a much bigger sample size than yours. That's the reason he went for the goblin villages. No offence however but I don't think anyone will read through 2 separat thread which try to figure out the same and naturally you'll just go for the bigger thread as the chance to find your informations there is bigger. I would just add your pics to his thread to keep all informations close together, rather than spreading it out over several threads.

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Its okay if he wants to start a new thread haha, such is common during the update period with new things. You saw yourself few hours ago at general section, SO many new thread popping out 1 by 1.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PololoP

Well I was too busy farming old egg layouts with several layers of wall around but I might make an attempt to explain each single one of the "soon".

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Would be awesome, but if its too much work, then don't tire yourself haha.

Just made a replay of how wall breaker reacts to inner "reverse" spikes. stay tune~

EDIT:
In response to the reverse spike theory.

1st wall breaker didn't get lured to the T junction nor the reverse spike
2nd wall breaker didn't get lured by the T Junction
3rd wall breaker was aimed directly at the T Junction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XNGb...ature=youtu.be

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Junliang

Hm, I will be waiting for you to create an anti-new wb base, and i will show you how to crack it :)

The New WB ai certainty opens up attacking strategy tbh.

Off topic: I seriously wonder how many people realize the significance of every single 200 wall breakers that I deployed in the goblin map. How many people can pin point every single of that 200 wall breakers that I've deployed and explain specifically why they target those walls in the video.

If you really want to understand how they work, bring 100 wall breaker to the goblin map. Test your hypothesis, your theories on reverse spikes over there. You will be surprised.

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No intention of offending, but have you even figured out the reason why each of those 200 wall breakers you deployed targeted the walls they did? I, for one, am still confused by many of the targets these WBs chose in your video. Have you got it all figured out?

For example, in the first video at 5:42. Why did the WB veer to the right side when the position you deployed it at was clearly closer to the goblin hut on the left? Can you explain that?

http://i.imgur.com/0ZSCHZ6.jpg


Current set-up. Not ideal, but hey, most bases can be dominated by WB's now. Pretty good aesthetic qualities though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nkcpoker

No intention of offending, but have you even figured out the reason why each of those 200 wall breakers you deployed targeted the walls they did? I, for one, am still confused by many of the targets these WBs chose in your video. Have you got it all figured out?

For example, in the first video at 5:42. Why did the WB veer to the right side when the position you deployed it at was clearly closer to the goblin hut on the left? Can you explain that?

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None taken, feel free to ask me questions :o

Regarding the WB at 5:42.
Take note of this quote,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marika[Supercell]

- Wall Breakers will go after walls that have something behind them (so spikes won't work, since they don't have anything behind them)

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At 5:42, at that deployment spot, there are only 2 sets of walls that fullfill the above criteria, as illustrated below.

http://i48.tinypic.com/1znxzl1.jpg

The entrance of that funnel is there, but it doesn't fullfill the criteria that Marika said in the quote above.

The second wall breaker took the shortest route, that can provide access to the building on the left.

Hope this clarify your doubts.

interesting - so the theory stating reverse wall spikes is a Fail then i guess.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Junliang

None taken, feel free to ask me questions :o

Regarding the WB at 5:42.
Take note of this quote,


At 5:42, at that deployment spot, there are only 2 sets of walls that fullfill the above criteria, as illustrated below.

http://i48.tinypic.com/1znxzl1.jpg

The entrance of that funnel is there, but it doesn't fullfill the criteria that Marika said in the quote above.

The second wall breaker took the shortest route, that can provide access to the building on the left.

Hope this clarify your doubts.

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The shortest route was to the left side, from your point of deployment =]. Take a look at the video again. But the difference might be small enough that there's variance in which side it goes for.

Edit: so the screenshot you have here isn't actually where you deployed it, it moved quite a bit already when ya took this screeny. The other path you have arrowed out is exactly what I was talking about.

Just tested this myself, I deployed my wall breaker head on into the left spike for the entry hall, yet it still went for the right side like in Jun's video. I am utterly confused as to why it is happening. Anyone care to shed some light on the issue?

Fozzie, I find your post informative and I can't wait for your further findings. And please just ignore other trolls on this thread. Keep it up!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nkcpoker

About the "Buffered" sweet spots. The WB's splash radius has been increased to about 1 tile. So double walls are ineffective even if you surround the whole circumference of your base with it. (unless you leave a gap)

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Foz, I have come across a few of these bases. The first time, holee-derp, only used about half the amount as before update. They surrounded all storages and a few wizzys within all the walls, making it three deep, four in some, and the WBs just cut through it like hot knife in butter.
(they left their TH out and I tried to give them a shield, but no, three teslas appeared so I just went for it)


Thanks for going through the effort to give us this info, muchly appreciated!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nkcpoker

The shortest route was to the left side, from your point of deployment =]. Take a look at the video again. But the difference might be small enough that there's variance in which side it goes for.

Edit: so the screenshot you have here isn't actually where you deployed it, it moved quite a bit already when ya took this screeny. The other path you have arrowed out is exactly what I was talking about.

Just tested this myself, I deployed my wall breaker head on into the left spike for the entry hall, yet it still went for the right side like in Jun's video. I am utterly confused as to why it is happening. Anyone care to shed some light on the issue?

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Hard to see the entire image in the picture. But to me it looks like clearly the only building "boxed" in would be that right side. I think goblin bases would not be a good way to test these WB theories, as they are mostly all funnel bases and do not provide the appropriate base design to give answers to the questions you have. I kind of laugh, I have not lost one wink of sleep over the WB AI, while others are threatening to quit. My raiding went better today than normal, I say great job on WB improvements and relax! :)

Great job on the thread btw! I think you are on the right track. :)

Nice thread, think I'll be keeping an eye on this :)