goblin raid strategy is really failing!

i have begun raiding with goblins for the purpose of stealing resources more efficiently and quicker, but im failing to do so. why? because the mortars and wizards automatically target my poor goblins when there are hoardes of barbs and archers arround them to be targetting. the same thing applies with wall breakers, the mortars and wizard towers ruin my whole match when they either wipe out my goblins or my wall breakers, but mostly my goblins. what should i do about this? im not sure if using giants instead of barbs and archers would make a difference since the defence targetting is random. so what do you guys think?

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Originally Posted by clashofclans2013

i have begun raiding with goblins for the purpose of stealing resources more efficiently and quicker, but im failing to do so. why? because the mortars and wizards automatically target my poor goblins when there are hoardes of barbs and archers arround them to be targetting. the same thing applies with wall breakers, the mortars and wizard towers ruin my whole match when they either wipe out my goblins or my wall breakers, but mostly my goblins. what should i do about this? im not sure if using giants instead of barbs and archers would make a difference since the defence targetting is random. so what do you guys think?

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I'm only raiding with barbs/ archers/ goblins/ wallbreaker since TH7 (currently TH8). I usually start by deploying barbs to distract (they go in melee range so cannons/ archertowers usually don't switch to wallbreaker) or archers before if they can't be shot down by any defense. After sending barbs as distraction, I will support these barbs with archers and funnel wallbreakers in between, usually timing possible mortar hits. Only problem so far is missjudging mines/ collectors and having to further go for storages but aside of that, no issue. (however I usually don't attack TH9 with Wizard Tower 6/7 and x-bows)

I think you have to use giants. The mortars AI will pick the next worst threat to target once a troop is destroyed. With hordes of archers or barbs, once a particular member of the horde is destroyed, the mortar will choose a new target and this is likely to be a WB in your case.

I don't know how the ai "scores" a particular troop for targeting but this seems to be what hapens and is incidentally why a mortar sometimes never fires at a group if individual members are being picked off by another weapon (typically a wiz tower).

Once a giant is engaged by a defence, it will not switch until that troop is destroyed allowing you to sneak your wbs in...

S.

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Originally Posted by Sarth

I think you have to use giants. The mortars AI will pick the next worst threat to target once a troop is destroyed. With hordes of archers or barbs, once a particular member of the horde is destroyed, the mortar will choose a new target and this is likely to be a WB in your case.

I don't know how the ai "scores" a particular troop for targeting but this seems to be what hapens and is incidentally why a mortar sometimes never fires at a group if individual members are being picked off by another weapon (typically a wiz tower).

Once a giant is engaged by a defence, it will not switch until that troop is destroyed allowing you to sneak your wbs in...

S.

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thanks sarth, that makes sense. the giants would take the splash for a while so that would give goblins time to steal from the storages, given they arent targetted by another defence (hopefully not a splash tower). ill try it, but this would certainly take more time to raid. or maybe ill forget using the goblins and ill use more barbs and archers to rush into the center of the base to pick off the storages, in these cases i use the rage spell and it works really well. the only problem is that im using lightning spells to steal DE easily. so i wont have space for any rage spells. but thanks for your help, i appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by Sarth

I think you have to use giants. The mortars AI will pick the next worst threat to target once a troop is destroyed. With hordes of archers or barbs, once a particular member of the horde is destroyed, the mortar will choose a new target and this is likely to be a WB in your case.

I don't know how the ai "scores" a particular troop for targeting but this seems to be what hapens and is incidentally why a mortar sometimes never fires at a group if individual members are being picked off by another weapon (typically a wiz tower).

Once a giant is engaged by a defence, it will not switch until that troop is destroyed allowing you to sneak your wbs in..
S.

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The premise is wrong but the conclusion is right. The ai does not make a threat determination. It merely targets the next closest thing. The reason mortars don't fire is their shot rate is low. If they consistently target the same thing a faster weapon targets, the target will die before the mortar can fire.

It should be easy to reason that the closest thing is going to be wall breakers and goblins since archers stay at a distance and barbs will target the outer buildings.

You need to distract the defenses. Giants are good for this. Barbarians can also do this.

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Originally Posted by PololoP

I'm only raiding with barbs/ archers/ goblins/ wallbreaker since TH7 (currently TH8). I usually start by deploying barbs to distract (they go in melee range so cannons/ archertowers usually don't switch to wallbreaker) or archers before if they can't be shot down by any defense. After sending barbs as distraction, I will support these barbs with archers and funnel wallbreakers in between, usually timing possible mortar hits. Only problem so far is missjudging mines/ collectors and having to further go for storages but aside of that, no issue. (however I usually don't attack TH9 with Wizard Tower 6/7 and x-bows)

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thats exactly what i do. i spread out some barbs and archers and make sure they are in the mortars and wizards range. while they are supposed to be hit, my gobs successfully run to the storages at the center, but suddenly the mortars or wizards point towards my goblins and wipe them out, meanwhile, there are barbs and archers knocking on the door ( breaking the walls, lol). i dont understand why these damn splash towers do this, haha.

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Originally Posted by dahimi

The premise is wrong but the conclusion is right. The ai does not make a threat determination. It merely targets the next closest thing. The reason mortars don't fire is their shot rate is low. If they consistently target the same thing a faster weapon targets, the target will die before the mortar can fire.

It should be easy to reason that the closest thing is going to be wall breakers and goblins since archers stay at a distance and barbs will target the outer buildings.

You need to distract the defenses. Giants are good for this. Barbarians can also do this.

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which is precisely why giants would be good for the job. thanks dahimi. ill explore some strategies and report my results.

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Originally Posted by dahimi

The premise is wrong but the conclusion is right. The ai does not make a threat determination. It merely targets the next closest thing. The reason mortars don't fire is their shot rate is low. If they consistently target the same thing a faster weapon targets, the target will die before the mortar can fire.

It should be easy to reason that the closest thing is going to be wall breakers and goblins since archers stay at a distance and barbs will target the outer buildings.

You need to distract the defenses. Giants are good for this. Barbarians can also do this.

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Well if "picking the closest troop" isn't classified as "threat determination" then I guess my premise is wrong.

I chose my words deliberately because I know how complex even a simple AI can be: is it really just the next nearest thing? What if two different troops are at the same distance, will it target the stronger one, the faster one, with the most damage, without being behind a wall???

All of these are rather obvious parameters for "scoring" a potential target for engagement. You say it is merely distance based, I bow to your greater knowledge...

S.

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Originally Posted by Sarth

Well if "picking the closest troop" isn't classified as "threat determination" then I guess my premise is wrong.

I chose my words deliberately because I know how complex even a simple AI can be: is it really just the next nearest thing? What if two different troops are at the same distance, will it target the stronger one, the faster one, with the most damage, without being behind a wall???

All of these are rather obvious parameters for "scoring" a potential target for engagement. You say it is merely distance based, I bow to your greater knowledge...

S.

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Your post implies that the ai does something more sophisticated and as you say it is vague. It really is the next closest thing. I do not know how it chooses if two things are the same exact distance. If I were programming it I'd do a distance calculation on everything within range with a comparison. The first closest troop calculated would be the object of that comparison and hence the one chosen.

I take 15-20. use 6-8 (or less) Giants per raid.

I send them groups of 3-6, and hope to find a spot where there are several (hopefully poorly gaurded) weapons they can just go to town on.
send in some barbs to help deal damage, some arch to clean up.. Aim first for Wizzy,and Mortar. near storages. WBs to bust a hole, Barbs Giants on the Defs. then Wait...

Remember you get 3min, per match. In the first 2min; you should use this time for the Giant/Barb/Arch..w/e, to disable as many def turrets/towers as you can. 15-20 gobs can put in work in the last min or so. (send them in at 45 sec and see how much loot then acquire..even if a tower or cannon still is going.

Practice Patience. Practice Timing.

if you use just barbs, then "drip them" one at a time just before the one dies so the mortar will target that spot again and again.. (strong walls help here, your goal is not to penetrate the wall per sey, but to distract long enough to get the loots w/Gobs.)

worth a try anyhow..

GL Buddy.

Barbs and archer set up is better in some ways.

1. Cheaper then goblins
2. Easier then using goblins?

But it also needs a bit of patience.

i stopped using goblins and the results are much better. the extra barbs and archers i can use instead of the gobs lets me invade the center of the base and steal all the loot with hardly any trouble. im glad i switched tactics, but unfortunately that means that i started my goblins level 4 research for nothing, lol.

If you want my advice as a TH7 that does no less than 4m/day @ farming...

Giant > Tank
(wait for mortar/WT to target it)

[!] AFTER THE MORTAR SHOOTS [!]
WB > Destroy the closest wall to the storages/mines/collectors

Goblins > Spam like 25% of your goblins, few seconds after another 25%.

Archers > Towards the defenses, in groups, they own them quickly and will defend your goblins.

And then endlessly summon the rest of your giants/archers/goblins. That'll do the job.
You have to time everything very well though, I got used to it. ;)

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Originally Posted by Apk2O13

If you want my advice as a TH7 that does no less than 4m/day @ farming...

Giant > Tank
(wait for mortar/WT to target it)

[!] AFTER THE MORTAR SHOOTS [!]
WB > Destroy the closest wall to the storages/mines/collectors

Goblins > Spam like 25% of your goblins, few seconds after another 25%.

Archers > Towards the defenses, in groups, they own them quickly and will defend your goblins.

And then endlessly summon the rest of your giants/archers/goblins. That'll do the job.
You have to time everything very well though, I got used to it. ;)

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thanks. ill consider it

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Originally Posted by clashofclans2013

i have begun raiding with goblins for the purpose of stealing resources more efficiently and quicker, but im failing to do so. why? because the mortars and wizards automatically target my poor goblins when there are hoardes of barbs and archers arround them to be targetting. the same thing applies with wall breakers, the mortars and wizard towers ruin my whole match when they either wipe out my goblins or my wall breakers, but mostly my goblins. what should i do about this? im not sure if using giants instead of barbs and archers would make a difference since the defence targetting is random. so what do you guys think?

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Dont do all goblins , put a few giants in there.

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Originally Posted by clashofclans2013

thanks. ill consider it

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You should. Made 2m/2m since my last post, using this method. (didn't even play every chanse I had)

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Originally Posted by Apk2O13

You should. Made 2m/2m since my last post, using this method. (didn't even play every chanse I had)

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I'm going to be TH7 in a few days. Does this work on a smaller scale with TH6? And is 6 giants too few, and 60 gobs too many for 135 troops?

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Originally Posted by Vandslaux

I'm going to be TH7 in a few days. Does this work on a smaller scale with TH6? And is 6 giants too few, and 60 gobs too many for 135 troops?

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Yeah obviously work as a TH6 as well. And considering the fact you have 135 troops limit, 6 giants is great. 3 WBs and 70% goblins/30% archers. Good luck!

not advertising my video but this technique works fine for me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN-C1drQGPI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN-C1drQGPI

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Originally Posted by clashofclans2013

i have begun raiding with goblins for the purpose of stealing resources more efficiently and quicker, but im failing to do so. why? because the mortars and wizards automatically target my poor goblins when there are hoardes of barbs and archers arround them to be targetting. the same thing applies with wall breakers, the mortars and wizard towers ruin my whole match when they either wipe out my goblins or my wall breakers, but mostly my goblins. what should i do about this? im not sure if using giants instead of barbs and archers would make a difference since the defence targetting is random. so what do you guys think?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Apk2O13

If you want my advice as a TH7 that does no less than 4m/day @ farming...

Giant > Tank
(wait for mortar/WT to target it)

[!] AFTER THE MORTAR SHOOTS [!]
WB > Destroy the closest wall to the storages/mines/collectors

Goblins > Spam like 25% of your goblins, few seconds after another 25%.

Archers > Towards the defenses, in groups, they own them quickly and will defend your goblins.

And then endlessly summon the rest of your giants/archers/goblins. That'll do the job.
You have to time everything very well though, I got used to it. ;)

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Where do you farm? Sub 200? Because I'm not seeing how this will pull a win very often, disregarding the resources stolen.

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Originally Posted by Daddy

not advertising my video but this technique works fine for me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN-C1drQGPI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN-C1drQGPI

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thanks for the vid, it was pretty helpful. but i still dont think i like this whole diversion-send-diversion-send method. i think im more comfortable with busting inside the base and destroying the storages with a lot of barbs and archers. i use rage spells for this strategy so its really helpful to me. thanks for your feedback though, i realize you are the more advanced player and ill consider this tactic of goblin raiding in the near future.