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Should Heroes that are being upgraded be allowed to go to War with you when you are attacking a base? I think most of us were confused about this from the start and it should have been made clearer. Please Vote. (Poll Question should have said "Should upgrading heroes be available when you attack a base in clan wars?") Fail I know
In my opinion yes, they should be.
Yes, Clan Wars for many represented hope of finally having a truly level playing field. Something that is impossible to achieve in trophy hunting.
Having your upgrading heroes not available for attack slaps that right in the face. It just becomes yet another case of paid players get the advantage; like always...
I feel like a lot of members where lead down the wrong road on ths one. I was going to upgrade mine but I thought I better wait until we finish our first CW. I am glad I did not decide to put them down. The biggest issue this causes is a lot of people are not going to upgrade there Heroes because they want to have them available for Clan Wars. SC should have made this more clear to everyone. Heroes will become even more of a Gem item.Quote:
Originally Posted by daz258
Hero Upgrades are pathetic. They take long amounts of time and we can't use them in Clan Wars just makes it worse. I think Heroes are like a defense, and should be usable in war. They can make the difference in a 2 star and 3 star. Think about it SC.
Mine aren't on upgrade, so I can't test. I read somewhere earlier that upgrading hero's "were" available for attacks, but is that not the case?
I know they're up on defense, but are they not available for offense?
If that's the case, I couldn't agree more. If all heroes are available on defense, then they have to be available on all offense without question.
Agreed, and Heroes cannot be used on offense if they are upgrading. It's a shame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldfury
thanks steve:rolleyes:
I have already posted this on a few threads so excuse the redundancy...
Let's be honest, no one see's a premie base with level 40 heroes and thinks, "oh no, now I can't defeat this base because the heroes are so powerful on defense."
They are easy to lure and kill on defense.
Their real value is in attack.
So to have them available for defense rather than attack sounds like its more about making the digital coding easier, but doesn't follow the 'spirit' of what clan wars should be.
The reasoning for deciding to make sure defenses wouldn't be down in the CW section of the game is the same reasoning Heroes should be available for attack IF UPGRADING. That reasoning is: CW is a way to put everything out on the table and see who wins. All defenses, all attacking troops.
Since Heroes are, for higher level players, the most important aspect in regards to strength of attack, not having them available for attacking makes clan wars much less valuable as a measuring stick of skill against other clans of similar compositions.
HOWEVER, don't expect this to be a simple fix on the part of SC. Remember they have to find a way to make that work code-wise. That will be difficult to say the least, so don't expect anything soon.
Hopefully the hype around clan wars won't die off because of this small, although important IMO, issue regarding Hero upgrades.
Yes it's only fair if they are available for everyone, keeps it balanced. I thought it was a glitch when they were available for defense but not offense makes no sense.
This becomes even more important when you consider that strength of your heroes is considered when your base's strength is calculated when finding a war, finding a recommended opponent and lastly, calculating your war loot bonus, regardless of them being upgraded or not.
Very good point here.Quote:
Originally Posted by yjagota
Since hero levels are used in calculation of matchup i think they should be available at the level they are upgrading from, just like everything else.
Heroes are from your normal base not your war base so doubt there is an easy way to make them available. Defenses are diffrent since they are not using your real base.
Yes its too hard to hit a base like mine with out them and impossible to get more then 1 star on the very good bases
Yeah, i think that they should. Otherwise people will stop upgrading them. Mine are both level 19 and i really want them at level 20 to improve their ability but that would make them unavailable for 4 wars each.
That's a pretty big disadvantage considering they are used in matchmaking...
Another good point. this turns more people onto gemming Heroes. Not cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo
Agree! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by yjagota
Of course some will say that it works both ways so your rival clan will have heroes downtime as well. Thats where the non-gemming versus gemming comes in.. But i guess thats where SC need to spin in some revenue for the big CW project!
Cheers~
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by yjagota
10chars
Of course — heroes are a huge advantage in attacking, and you can use them in defense while upgrading (in clan wars) so why not attacking? :D
by not allowing upgrading hereos being available for war/raids it forces players to gem them which equals to cash for Supercell's deep pockets. you may ask why the other defenses are allowed and only the hereos and answer to that is there has to be some kind of balance to make Supercell look not too greedy but just enough so they can generate revenue. As far are the poll results, yes of course people want their hereos available regardless but I don't think Supercell ever go for such thing...
Yes they will because supercell are trying to balance this game. Right now defence and offence are pretty even at th10, you have to attack well or you may loose which is the way it should be. However this makes clan wars unbalanced as we need both our heroes to raid properly in war. Supercell knows this and they will make heroes avaliable for war in the near future. It makes sense after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by volatex
Think 19 people hit the wrong button.
That's how supercell makes business they want you to buy gems to speed the time of heroes so the are available in war
http://i.imgur.com/wsEmYux.jpg
What you can do is, save up enough DE. Then, e.g. war start Sat noon.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo
#1 war starts, make both attack early. Click upgrade hero (or both) at Sat 6pm.
#2 war starts next Sat noon as well. Your heroes are ready next Sat 6pm, and you have until Sun noon to attack both.
That's what I do if it co-incides with my hero upgrades. My clan war once a week only.
lol... that works only once, because next time you will have to start upgrading your heroes after your 2 attacks again. If you really play it well, might be only 3 hours later (you still need to build your troops and cook your spells for your second attack).Quote:
Originally Posted by CuteBoboi
Of course it doesn't work if you war more than once a week.
What will you do once your heroes upgrade cost more than 100k ? My queen now cost 155k and my king 135k, so how do I manage to upgrade both at the same time ? I have to up one every 3-4 day, that's the only way I can manage, so they are next to never available for CW !
I would have liked for heroes to have been able to attack during clan wars if they had implemented it when clan wars were introduced. To change it now would be blatantly unfair to the people who have participated in clan wars for months without their heroes as they upgraded or gemmed their heroes in order to use them.
I would like to use my heroes in wars but at least one, often both are upgrading. Just because it would be convenient for me doesn't mean that we should penalize the people who have already spent the time or money to upgrade their heroes.
I think most of us agree that upgrading Heroes should be available offensively in CW (though I understand where few people who don't are coming from). We also have a pretty good idea why SC doesn't allow this to happen. After all it's a business and I respect that. It'd be nice to hear directly from SC about this though. Not sure if they have answered this very question before (I might have missed the memo), but I feel like they try to avoid talking about it. I still have hope that this will happen in the not-too-far-away future. Hopefully it's not just a dream.
Nope. Suck it up and get your heroes upgraded.
Plenty of people have worked their way through it, why should you get it easier?
Im pretty sure supercell knows this will improve the game, they just dont care, this whole game was designed to make money for supercell. This is why they also dont include war opt outs. If people are forced to war then they are often pressured to gem heroes and spell factories for war.
My King is only Level 3 as a new TH8, so I don't have these problems. But your arguments make a lot of sense to me. Maybe just have 20 Hero Levels that each take twice as long and cost twice as much? Then people would upgrade them half as often!
The attacks and defenses should be in the top state of the current upgrade level.
Thats how it is for all buildings etc.
In our wars its been a big issue because many are upgrading them constantly we have been a lot weaker than many of our opponents. In some cases many had lvl 40 heroes.
If everybody have heroes the war is more fair.
Yes. It only makes sense in clan wars though. Would really love to see this implemented into the game. Hope it gets added soon.
I really thought this was asked by everyone. 25 ppl against..?? Maybe they are people who already maxed their Heroes by gemming them ...?
Or maybe they have maxed their heroes by farming them and participated in numerous wars without their heroes?Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdo
Even then, why would they be against? They should be the first to know that it is terrible game design?Quote:
Originally Posted by Growler
Looks like overwhelming agreement, heroes shouldn't nap for war purposes. Except for SuperCell, do they get to vote?
I'm fine with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdo
If it is too tough then quit. Instead of seeing it as unfair look at it as something to overcome.
How is this different than not having your spell factory available for attacks if you are upgrading it?
you are fine with it, therefore it is fine. Ok...Quote:
Originally Posted by Growler
BTW I never said I had trouble with it. Both my heroes are over lvl 30 and upgrading as we speak. It is a terrible game design.
It's like if you couldn't use your troops while they were upgrading. How dumb would that be?
I ended up quitting wars because I wanted to concentrate on heroes, as I only had walls and them left to do at th10. Queen is permanently on upgrade at lev21 now and trying to gowipe without her each war just wasn't fun. So now I've pretty much quit playing and just let my collectors do the work....gg Supercell. Also grew weary of clan war matchups pitting us against clans with heroes all 20-30+ and ours were 8-20. Making heroes seem to count so little towards matchup strength when they are probably the #1 most important troop is a joke.
That's the problem here. Heroes are treated as a building, and not a troop. You should compare it to troops research. Would it make sense to not being able to use golems for 14 days because they are upgrading..?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudbone
Heroes also count for much in war matchmaking. It makes no sense to have them count and not being able to use them.
It would be even less of a 'problem' than missing your heroes when they upgrade.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdo
It isn't as if I can't see your point, it is just that the constant demands for the dumbing down of the game gets tiresome.
I get your point totally. But missing your heroes when they upgrade hurts only you. It's a choice everyone has to make.Quote:
Originally Posted by Growler
Missing your heroes during war hurts your whole team. So you have to ask yourself if staying in the clan while they war hurts them. That's why I think this flaw needs to be corrected.
The problem is supercell has proven time and time again .... Even though they are the most popular mobile game ever for mmo and maybe the most income ... they lack programing and development. Take vain glory for example a startup that was growing they have had 5 updates with new content in the time supercell with millions in revenue has had 1. Supercell will not invest the time and money to give you a seperate attack interface that has your heroes active and lets not forget your spell factory to vs your standard interface. No one can war all week long which is their big push now (we try but its a pain with upgrades). This again makes serious gamers or even intermidiate know they should not spend on this game because super cell is not reinvesting, honestly I bet they have spent far more on tv commercials then development .... Enjoy the game log in and let them wonder why their massive success is not more profitable .....
You are correct that the issue is based in the fact that the Heroes are treated as a building. But research and upgrading are two different things. You are not researching a new Hero level, you are upgrading.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdo
Spells also count for much in attacking, especially so in wars. The real reason that more people don't complain about loss of spells during Spell Factory upgrades is that you only do it 4 times vs 39 times for the Heroes.
And by the point you made, wars have nothing to do with. Why do we lose the ability to use Heroes at any time when all other troops can be used at their current level while the research is going on.
It seems that the real solution here is to remove upgrading the Heroes from the builders and place it in the Laboratory, not just allow their use during wars.
I don't agree. Research lab is already a clog, imagine adding heroes there too!Quote:
Originally Posted by kchristainsen
I think they should be too but let me tell you why they wont do this, people gem their heroes in order to use them in war so that means SC gets more money. ;)
It depends on Supercell's values. If Supercell wants clans to war often, they should allow us to attack in war with the hero, even if it is upgrading.
I agree with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldfury
This is a simple solution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudbone
Non issue at the moment because I am th8 using dragon attacks, had to giwipe last war because my opposite was a th9 with good air defence, I can see how this would be a real problem once dragon attacks are out of the picture