If you were curious about what happened to FK here's a link that I think help explains SOME of it... http://www.reddit.com/r/ClashOfClans...ned_today_for/
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If you were curious about what happened to FK here's a link that I think help explains SOME of it... http://www.reddit.com/r/ClashOfClans...ned_today_for/
haha i wouldnt bring it up alot of people get yelled at for posting about it
Yeah ik :/ that's why I didn't say what happened just linked it :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer35616
haha you should have just linked the forum that was on here about it. one of them got banned for making so many threads about it xD
Wow, these dudes deserved it.
There's always 2 sides to a story my friend, unless you know both then we have no right to make assumptions.Quote:
Originally Posted by GooseFraba
Supercell clearly explained. I'd rather believe them than a guy with username 'f**k the moderators'Quote:
Originally Posted by Fros
His username clearly screams immaturity and anger. Don't expect anything better from such people.
Yet their story is contradicted by a member of FK. Unless proof that the warnings were issued is brought to light then it looks VERY suspiciousQuote:
Originally Posted by GooseFraba
Who saves the proof? You don't know how they were warned. ( i mean the method )
And like i said, I'd rather believe guys who can keep their cool and not rage.
I don't get it, who reads the clan description on a regular basis? I mean someone could edit mine and I wouldn't know for weeks, its not exactly in your face. One more thing to worry about for the new clans I guess
I LOLed reading that page. All these people angry.
well if you don't, many others do. You don't have to read description regularly just to catch a glimpse of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle21
Clan description is the only way to send messages in clash indirectly in case you are targeting someone.
I am not familiar but those clans are famous. they get lots of attention.
I am just saying that I go weeks without looking at it and I'm the leader... why would normal members pay attention to it?Quote:
Originally Posted by GooseFraba
Even i don't. but in this case they did and felt offended. Hence, the ban.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle21
Let's talk about their case and not what happens in general :p
This was clearly an overreaction by SC. I don't condone cyber bullying at all, but banning an entire clan because a few select members (or possibly just one) changed the description to something sounds like the other clan is just abusing their powers within the game.
I've only been playing for a couple months, so what do I know, but to me this looks very suspicious.
You don't ban 50 people because of half a dozen bad eggs, you ban the bad eggs and then everyone else will know not to do what they did.
Now you've just ♥♥♥♥♥♥ off 50 people, who probably 40-45 had no idea what the description said. I know I've never looked at my clan's description, so how would I even know what I was even banned for if something similar had been caused by my clan's leaders?
Something to think about in the future if this issue were to come up again. Somehow I doubt it will though, considering these were special circumstances with a clan filled with mods apparently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liderc
Your clan has received a total of 3 warnings to cease the direct harassment of specific individual players, not of a clan. Not only have members of your clan directly attacked these players in Clan Chat, but also used your clan description to mention them personally, reveal their personal information, and attack them with offensive language... not one, not two, not three, but four times. We have a very low tolerance for personal attacks in Clash of any kind.
According to this, i can devise that not just 'few' members were involved.
Why is members and elders banned?
They don't get to change descriptions and they didn't get the warnings
please read above post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simho0415
I have a good friend in FK & he is just a hardcore farmer who don't bother about clan politics but he was banned because some ♥♥♥ posted something offensive on the clan description. The whole clan got banned was abit too far.
We are having coffee together now & he has to look at me playing as he can't play the game at all.
I wanted to offer him another account to play on his device but he can't even login to change account.
Kinda pity him.
Put your phone down and have coffee with your friend. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by JackoTheGreat
how long actually they got banned? 1 weeks?
First off, wrong sub forum this should not be in general it should be in clan chat. Second off, Your giving the attention that fk wants. They were inmature and are paying the consequences of a 2 day ban. Nuff said. Don't need to start some banter on the forums about this people...
I was thinking the same thing :pQuote:
Originally Posted by blaugh
U are rubbing it in !
How do u know it's only two days?Quote:
Originally Posted by clasher247
A supercell moderator said it on the reddit forums :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzilla86
If the story is true, and I have no reason to doubt it given the official post, it's deserved. There is no place for this behaviour in the game (yes game).
Wow the immaturity, good call from SC!
I don't have a problem with a clan ban, by beeing in the clan you're supporting the message just like the Top players are forming and joining clans to send a message.
How would SC know who has seen the message and not? How would SC know which of the co leaders/leader that wrote which message(unless they have specific data for that)?
Only fair way to deal with it would be to punish all or none, by punishing none they would say that they are ok with harassment. Props to SC for caring.
And that's why I don't go on Reddit...
Dont spose you got a chance to put your pots outside before getting banned did you?
I rather have a Staff team that cares about others than caring about $$$$. Props to Supercell for paying attention to this Abuse and then taking the time out of their day to type a well written response to this abuse.
I hink it was a VERY unfortunate decision to ban everybody.
What if you go to holiday, don't log on for a week. In the meantime your leader changed the clan description to something awful and you coime back after a week finding out you are perma banned ?
Do I now have to check my clan's description on an hourly basis to be ready to leave the clan once somebody of the leaders and co-leaders posts something illegal ? And what If I join aclan whose clan description I do not understand because it#s written in a foreign language ?
Not good, SC, not good.
It was fair to ban the persons that posted an illegal clan description though, that is an action I can totally support.
Banning the rest of the clan ? that's like kin liability, clan liability or collective liability.
Actullay, in German the word is 'Sippenhaft' and it translates directly to clan liability , in English it is rather called collective responsibility though.
There was a regime in Germany that once used this to terrorize the people in many ways.
That's possibly why it's a very sensitive matter to people with certain awareness to laws,human rights, history and politics.
read English wikipedia about collective responsibility :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_responsibility
German wikipedia :
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sippenhaftung
In Germany, since the Nazis used collective responsibility a lot, we see something like this as totally opposed to democratic societies and completely unacceptable even in the slightest cases.
There can only ever be a personal liability whatsoever.
Not good, SC, not good.
I think SC owes an apology to all the people in that clan that did not post the illiegal clan description.
I also would like to have an assurance that SC will not act in ways of collective responsibilities in the future as I do not want to have to check my clan description regularly to find out if somebody else is changig it into something illegal and I could suffer the consequences for that other person's deeds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acealive
When it comes to a perm ban I'm sure you could get it fixed if you claimed no knowledge, I can't see how anyone would want to be a part of a clan with leaders that acts like this though.
I don't think that they actually knows who posted/saw the message which means we end up with the solutions punish all of them or none. We have had a couple of people in Sweden getting convicted for the same murder when the court is unsure who comitted it but are positive that both where there and part of it.
I think that this is a much more fair comparison then with nazi germany. You know that someone of them did it but you don't know who, letting everyone go unpunished can't be a option in this case, since it would encourage this kind of behavior.
To clearify, SC seem to by my understanding believe that supporting this message by staying in the clan is just as bad as posting it. I see their point and I agree with it, I would never stay in a clan that posted something I didn't agree with, the clan description shows what the clan is all about and the clan as a group stand by it.
You should read thisQuote:
Originally Posted by acealive
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Disrupt, overburden, or aid or assist in the disruption or overburdening of any computer or server (“Server”) used to offer or support the Service or any Supercell game environment.
Institute, assist, or become involved in any type of attack, including without limitation distribution of a virus, denial of service attacks upon the Service, or other attempts to disrupt the Service or any other person’s use or enjoyment of the Service.
Attempt to gain unauthorized access to the Service, Accounts registered to others or to the computers, Servers, or networks connected to the Service by any means other than the user interface provided by Supercell, including but not limited to, by circumventing or modifying, attempting to circumvent or modify, or encouraging or assisting any other person to circumvent or modify, any security, technology, device, or software that is part of the Service.
Post any information that is abusive, threatening, obscene, defamatory, libelous, or racially, sexually, religiously, or otherwise objectionable or offensive.
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What do any of your highlights have to do with collective responsibility? I don't think you have the faintest idea of what he was saying yet you quoted him with this nonsensical reply.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nmills
Also since he specified Germany in particular you should be aware that they have strict rules regarding TOC and German law takes precedence
Great job Supercell! Kiddy angry kiddies got banned, that's what's always right in online gaming.
I can't even imagine the level of immaturity to post insults on a clan description, lol
I guess the youngest members of my clan, who are 113-14 years old wouldnt even think about being this stupid.
Good news for the game: SC do make decisions on these matters in the right direction, and communicates about it.
nice nice nice
Clearly they were singled out. Not hard to find a clan with a insulting clan message.
Drugs and booze is pretty common also foul language. (Enter excuse: what about the kiddies?)
... I guess its all about who you insult, much like these forums
The highlighted parts show the people who were banned agreed to the terms of service, what they did was clearly a violation of the terms of service and that supercell is alowed to ban acounts if they suspect they may have violated the terms. Its clear supercell have done nothing wrong and the people who were banned are not owed an apology.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle21
German law has nothing to do with this, he only mentioned Germany when he compared supercell to nazis. Supercell is not german they are From Finland, German law isn't relevant to their terms of service.
This is has nothing to do with collective responsibility, the banned players were warned about their behaviour before, if they had an issue with what their clan mates were saying they would have left the clan. As the verbal warning was ignored supercell had no choice but to take action, they didn't know who was involved and who wasn't so the only option was banning the whole clan.
Seems harsh to ban an entire clan but it sounds like they/multiple members were warned many times. You are typically judged by the company you keep so I can understand the two day bans. Doesn't seem terribly unreasonable to me.
These messages were obviously personal attacks and harassments, you can't compare that to a "I like drugs" message.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flytrap
I don't think you understand what I or he was saying, we will just have to agree to disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nmills
They got warned already. Several times. So it's not like they know nothing what'll happen. They got what they called. Nothing unfair there.
Does anyone remember Illustris and Farm4gold clan? Kind of the same thing happened then, but it was then claimed that Bonbee had too much influence on the forums.
No i think your the one who doesn't understand. Explain exactly how when a company based in Finland temporarily bans a group people of various nationalitys from their game after giving them multiple warnings about their inappropriate behaviour (an action they are alowed to take as everyone playing clash of clans has agreed to the tos) german law takes precedence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle21
I think a mod should deal with this by closing this thread..
First they could be German citizens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nmills
Second being in a clan as an elder or member means you have no control over the clan message.
Third what "action" did the members and elders take? Joining a clan months ago when it had a different message?
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by clasher247
It isn't even worth complaining about, it wasn't a permanent ban.
What happened?Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkypete
Even if they were german citizens it wouldn't matter, supercell is based in Finland and don't have to obey german laws.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle21
They may not have been the ones who put it up there but they could have suggested it be put up or encouraged other people to put it up. It is possible it may have been a group of members who wanted it put up and the leader felt pressured in to doing it.
The clan was warned multiple times about their behaviour before the ban, people had time to leave.
Its not even a big issue, the ban isn't permanent, It was just to warn them as the verbal warning was ignored.
lol seriously..Quote:
Originally Posted by Nmills
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerking
It's unfortunate that the posters in this thread would rather overlook the points in these replys and continue with their assumptions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerking
If individuals cannot be proven guilty, and the offense cannot be overlooked, the only course of action is to punish all involved, meaning the entire clan. If enough warnings were given out over a somewhat lengthy period of time, it is safe to assume that the majority of members where aware of the activities within the clan and were alright with it, shown by remaining a member, and are hence, guilty by association.
The only innocent members would be those who were new to the clan, or those who were very inactive and had no idea what was going on behind the scenes, so to speak.
The point is, nobody knows the reasoning behind SC's decision to ban the clan, and nobody knows the whole story except those involved, and I would rather stand behind SC's decision than the skewed excuses behind the guilty parties story.
Its possible, its better to ban them all than to risk banning the wrong person.Quote:
Originally Posted by woopton
You just said that the whole clan is guilty, then said that certain individuals are innocent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herpacleese
Yes I did, and it is an unfortunate consequence the innocent are having to deal with because of the actions of the rest of the clan.Quote:
Originally Posted by woopton
But a necessary consequence none the less.
Wouldn't they have server logs of what went down? Can't they pin point exactly what went down such as a report in global?
Sounds to me like SC and InTheDark just got real butt hurt over something that happens in gradeschool ie being picked on. Know what you did in grade school? Sucked it up, grew because of it, and became mentally stronger instead of telling mommy and daddy. Guess they figured mom might be able to help them get some ice on that hurt butt. Poor babies.
So you are one who believes antagonism and bulling, in any form, are life lessons and no harm can come from them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneegrodamus
I won't pretend to be able to answer that, but I will say that if it were possible, I believe SC would have don't it.Quote:
Originally Posted by woopton
I'm not saying no harm can come from bullying, I'm saying minimal pestering such that of what i read, is in no way harmful and shouldn't be taken as malicious or altering to game play in any manor fashion or form. Thusly i find it difficult to justify a clan wide ban. Disregarding the fact that if anything they should have banned an individual, not the whole group.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herpacleese
Edit: I would like to add that I welcome a ban from the forums with open arms if you consider realistic skepticism to be unacceptable. I feel that we should be able to voice our opinions, and to say that we cannot only when its in regards to something directed at some moderaters is ridiculous. If you had valid reasoning for making a move like that you should be able to defend your point or at least accept criticism. I say this only because i read that anyone posting about this discussion again will receive a permenant ban from the forums. Great way to deal with curiosity and point of view; Just ban it.
Sounds like a high school issue to me. Clan A bullies Clan B, Clan B tattles on Clan A. Seems both sides should just grow up. This world is way too sensitive anymore.
I see a lot of people saying that nobody checks the description. FK and ITD are some of the most popular clans in the game. They get a lot of traffic onto their clan pages. I know people who look at certain clan pages daily i.e. the Sky clans or some of the Top Clans. I check the TF description almost daily because they always change it and it is always funny and brightens my mood;)
Back to the real topic though: I do believe a full ban was harsh but if you look at all the publicity this is getting you will see that this full ban teaches everyone on the forums/reddit to never do something like this. I think SC acted smartly and there was no bias as said earlier. The description was clearly childish and offensive so the fact that ITD has like 3 mods on the forums means nothing:rolleyes:
That's part of the problem though. FK players said they didn't receive any warning from SC, how is that fair to FK if in fact they didn't receive any warning?Quote:
Originally Posted by Herpacleese
I agree that they shoulda been banned but just not the clan members ( only leader / co leader )... Does supercell really think freinds would abandon friends just because a clan leader is writting stuff about people in the descpription..Quote:
Originally Posted by Fros
Well its obv that leader / co leaders can only change the description.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nmills
What ever happend to illustris and his clan?Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkypete