If you were curious

I hink it was a VERY unfortunate decision to ban everybody.

What if you go to holiday, don't log on for a week. In the meantime your leader changed the clan description to something awful and you coime back after a week finding out you are perma banned ?

Do I now have to check my clan's description on an hourly basis to be ready to leave the clan once somebody of the leaders and co-leaders posts something illegal ? And what If I join aclan whose clan description I do not understand because it#s written in a foreign language ?

Not good, SC, not good.

It was fair to ban the persons that posted an illegal clan description though, that is an action I can totally support.

Banning the rest of the clan ? that's like kin liability, clan liability or collective liability.

Actullay, in German the word is 'Sippenhaft' and it translates directly to clan liability , in English it is rather called collective responsibility though.
There was a regime in Germany that once used this to terrorize the people in many ways.

That's possibly why it's a very sensitive matter to people with certain awareness to laws,human rights, history and politics.

read English wikipedia about collective responsibility :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_responsibility

German wikipedia :
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sippenhaftung

In Germany, since the Nazis used collective responsibility a lot, we see something like this as totally opposed to democratic societies and completely unacceptable even in the slightest cases.
There can only ever be a personal liability whatsoever.

Not good, SC, not good.

I think SC owes an apology to all the people in that clan that did not post the illiegal clan description.

I also would like to have an assurance that SC will not act in ways of collective responsibilities in the future as I do not want to have to check my clan description regularly to find out if somebody else is changig it into something illegal and I could suffer the consequences for that other person's deeds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by acealive

I hink it was a VERY unfortunate decision to ban everybody.

What if you go to holiday, don't log on for a week. In the meantime your leader changed the clan description to something awful and you coime back after a week finding out you are perma banned ?

Do I now have to check my clan's description on an hourly basis to be ready to leave the clan once somebody of the leaders and co-leaders posts something illegal ?

Not good, SC, not good.

It was fair to ban the persons that posted an illegal clan description though, that is an action I can totally support.

Banning the rest of the clan ? that's like kin liability, clan liability or collective liability.

Actullay, in German the word is 'Sippenhaft' and in Google Translate it translates directly to clan liability or collective liability.
There was a regime in Germany that once used this to terrorize the people in many ways.

That's possibly why it's a very sensitive matter to people with certain awareness to laws, history and politics.

German wikipedia :
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sippenhaftung

or read English wikipedia about collective responsibility :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_responsibility

In Germany, since the Nazis used collective responsibility a lot, we see something like this as totally opposed to democratic societies and completely unacceptable even in the slightest cases. There can only ever be a personal liability whatsoever.

Not good, SC, not good.

I think SC owes an apology to all the people in that clan that did not post the illiegal clan description.

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When it comes to a perm ban I'm sure you could get it fixed if you claimed no knowledge, I can't see how anyone would want to be a part of a clan with leaders that acts like this though.

I don't think that they actually knows who posted/saw the message which means we end up with the solutions punish all of them or none. We have had a couple of people in Sweden getting convicted for the same murder when the court is unsure who comitted it but are positive that both where there and part of it.

I think that this is a much more fair comparison then with nazi germany. You know that someone of them did it but you don't know who, letting everyone go unpunished can't be a option in this case, since it would encourage this kind of behavior.

To clearify, SC seem to by my understanding believe that supporting this message by staying in the clan is just as bad as posting it. I see their point and I agree with it, I would never stay in a clan that posted something I didn't agree with, the clan description shows what the clan is all about and the clan as a group stand by it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by acealive

I hink it was a VERY unfortunate decision to ban everybody.

What if you go to holiday, don't log on for a week. In the meantime your leader changed the clan description to something awful and you coime back after a week finding out you are perma banned ?

Do I now have to check my clan's description on an hourly basis to be ready to leave the clan once somebody of the leaders and co-leaders posts something illegal ? And what If I join aclan whose clan description I do not understand because it#s written in a foreign language ?

Not good, SC, not good.

It was fair to ban the persons that posted an illegal clan description though, that is an action I can totally support.

Banning the rest of the clan ? that's like kin liability, clan liability or collective liability.

Actullay, in German the word is 'Sippenhaft' and it translates directly to clan liability , in English it is rather called collective responsibility though.
There was a regime in Germany that once used this to terrorize the people in many ways.

That's possibly why it's a very sensitive matter to people with certain awareness to laws,human rights, history and politics.

read English wikipedia about collective responsibility :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_responsibility

German wikipedia :
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sippenhaftung

In Germany, since the Nazis used collective responsibility a lot, we see something like this as totally opposed to democratic societies and completely unacceptable even in the slightest cases.
There can only ever be a personal liability whatsoever.

Not good, SC, not good.

I think SC owes an apology to all the people in that clan that did not post the illiegal clan description.

I also would like to have an assurance that SC will not act in ways of collective responsibilities in the future as I do not want to have to check my clan description regularly to find out if somebody else is changig it into something illegal and I could suffer the consequences for that other person's deeds.

---

You should read this

BY INSTALLING, USING OR OTHERWISE ACCESSING THE SERVICE, YOU AGREE TO THESE TERMS OF SERVICE. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THESE TERMS OF SERVICE, PLEASE DO NOT INSTALL, USE OR OTHERWISE ACCESS THE SERVICE. USE OF THE SERVICE IS VOID WHERE PROHIBITED.


You agree that you will not, under any circumstances:


Engage in any act that Supercell deems to be in conflict with the spirit or intent of the Service or make improper use of Supercell’s support services.
Use ♥♥♥♥♥s, exploits, automation software, bots, ♥♥♥♥s, mods or any unauthorized third-party software designed to modify or interfere with the Service, any Supercell Game or any Supercell game experience or without Supercell’s express written consent, modify or cause to be modified any files that are a part of the Service or any Supercell game.
Disrupt, overburden, or aid or assist in the disruption or overburdening of any computer or server (“Server”) used to offer or support the Service or any Supercell game environment.
Institute, assist, or become involved in any type of attack, including without limitation distribution of a virus, denial of service attacks upon the Service, or other attempts to disrupt the Service or any other person’s use or enjoyment of the Service.
Attempt to gain unauthorized access to the Service, Accounts registered to others or to the computers, Servers, or networks connected to the Service by any means other than the user interface provided by Supercell, including but not limited to, by circumventing or modifying, attempting to circumvent or modify, or encouraging or assisting any other person to circumvent or modify, any security, technology, device, or software that is part of the Service.
Post any information that is abusive, threatening, obscene, defamatory, libelous, or racially, sexually, religiously, or otherwise objectionable or offensive.
Post any information that contains nudity, excessive violence, or offensive subject matter or that contains a link to such content.
Attempt to, or harass, abuse, or harm, or advocate or incite harassment, abuse, or harm of another person, group, including Supercell employees, including Supercell’s customer service representatives.
Make available through the Service any material or information that infringes any copyright, trademark, patent, trade secret, right of privacy, right of publicity, or other right of any person or entity or impersonates any other person, including without limitation a Supercell employee.
Reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, decipher or otherwise attempt to derive the source code for any underlying software or other intellectual property used to provide the Service or any Supercell game, or to obtain any information from the Service or any Supercell game using any method not expressly permitted by Supercell.
Solicit or attempt to solicit personal information from other users of the Service or any Supercell game or collect or post anyone’s private information, including personally identifiable information (whether in text, image or video form), identification documents, or financial information through the Service.
Supercell reserves the right to determine what conduct it considers to be in violation of the rules of use or otherwise outside the intent or spirit of these Terms of Service or the Service itself. Supercell reserves the right to take action as a result, which may include terminating your Account and prohibiting you from using the
Service.


1.2. Suspension and Termination of Account and Service
WITHOUT LIMITING ANY OTHER REMEDIES, SUPERCELL MAY LIMIT, SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE ACCOUNTS OR ACCESS TO SUPERCELL SERVICES OR PORTIONS THEREOF IF YOU ARE, OR SUPERCELL SUSPECTS THAT YOU ARE, FAILING TO COMPLY WITH ANY OF THESE TERMS OF SERVICE OR FOR ANY ACTUAL OR SUSPECTED ILLEGAL OR IMPROPER USE OF THE SERVICE, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE TO YOU. YOU CAN LOSE YOUR USER NAME AND PERSONA AS A RESULT OF ACCOUNT TERMINATION OR LIMITATION, AS WELL AS ANY BENEFITS, PRIVILEGES, EARNED ITEMS AND PURCHASED ITEMS ASSOCIATED WITH YOUR USE OF THE SERVICE, AND SUPERCELL IS UNDER NO OBLIGATION TO COMPENSATE YOU FOR ANY SUCH LOSSES OR RESULTS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nmills

You should read this

BY INSTALLING, USING OR OTHERWISE ACCESSING THE SERVICE, YOU AGREE TO THESE TERMS OF SERVICE. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THESE TERMS OF SERVICE, PLEASE DO NOT INSTALL, USE OR OTHERWISE ACCESS THE SERVICE. USE OF THE SERVICE IS VOID WHERE PROHIBITED.


You agree that you will not, under any circumstances:


Engage in any act that Supercell deems to be in conflict with the spirit or intent of the Service or make improper use of Supercell’s support services.
Use ♥♥♥♥♥s, exploits, automation software, bots, ♥♥♥♥s, mods or any unauthorized third-party software designed to modify or interfere with the Service, any Supercell Game or any Supercell game experience or without Supercell’s express written consent, modify or cause to be modified any files that are a part of the Service or any Supercell game.
Disrupt, overburden, or aid or assist in the disruption or overburdening of any computer or server (“Server”) used to offer or support the Service or any Supercell game environment.
Institute, assist, or become involved in any type of attack, including without limitation distribution of a virus, denial of service attacks upon the Service, or other attempts to disrupt the Service or any other person’s use or enjoyment of the Service.
Attempt to gain unauthorized access to the Service, Accounts registered to others or to the computers, Servers, or networks connected to the Service by any means other than the user interface provided by Supercell, including but not limited to, by circumventing or modifying, attempting to circumvent or modify, or encouraging or assisting any other person to circumvent or modify, any security, technology, device, or software that is part of the Service.
Post any information that is abusive, threatening, obscene, defamatory, libelous, or racially, sexually, religiously, or otherwise objectionable or offensive.
Post any information that contains nudity, excessive violence, or offensive subject matter or that contains a link to such content.
Attempt to, or harass, abuse, or harm, or advocate or incite harassment, abuse, or harm of another person, group, including Supercell employees, including Supercell’s customer service representatives.
Make available through the Service any material or information that infringes any copyright, trademark, patent, trade secret, right of privacy, right of publicity, or other right of any person or entity or impersonates any other person, including without limitation a Supercell employee.
Reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, decipher or otherwise attempt to derive the source code for any underlying software or other intellectual property used to provide the Service or any Supercell game, or to obtain any information from the Service or any Supercell game using any method not expressly permitted by Supercell.
Solicit or attempt to solicit personal information from other users of the Service or any Supercell game or collect or post anyone’s private information, including personally identifiable information (whether in text, image or video form), identification documents, or financial information through the Service.
Supercell reserves the right to determine what conduct it considers to be in violation of the rules of use or otherwise outside the intent or spirit of these Terms of Service or the Service itself. Supercell reserves the right to take action as a result, which may include terminating your Account and prohibiting you from using the
Service.


1.2. Suspension and Termination of Account and Service
WITHOUT LIMITING ANY OTHER REMEDIES, SUPERCELL MAY LIMIT, SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE ACCOUNTS OR ACCESS TO SUPERCELL SERVICES OR PORTIONS THEREOF IF YOU ARE, OR SUPERCELL SUSPECTS THAT YOU ARE, FAILING TO COMPLY WITH ANY OF THESE TERMS OF SERVICE OR FOR ANY ACTUAL OR SUSPECTED ILLEGAL OR IMPROPER USE OF THE SERVICE, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE TO YOU. YOU CAN LOSE YOUR USER NAME AND PERSONA AS A RESULT OF ACCOUNT TERMINATION OR LIMITATION, AS WELL AS ANY BENEFITS, PRIVILEGES, EARNED ITEMS AND PURCHASED ITEMS ASSOCIATED WITH YOUR USE OF THE SERVICE, AND SUPERCELL IS UNDER NO OBLIGATION TO COMPENSATE YOU FOR ANY SUCH LOSSES OR RESULTS.

---

What do any of your highlights have to do with collective responsibility? I don't think you have the faintest idea of what he was saying yet you quoted him with this nonsensical reply.

Also since he specified Germany in particular you should be aware that they have strict rules regarding TOC and German law takes precedence

Great job Supercell! Kiddy angry kiddies got banned, that's what's always right in online gaming.
I can't even imagine the level of immaturity to post insults on a clan description, lol
I guess the youngest members of my clan, who are 113-14 years old wouldnt even think about being this stupid.

Good news for the game: SC do make decisions on these matters in the right direction, and communicates about it.
nice nice nice

Clearly they were singled out. Not hard to find a clan with a insulting clan message.
Drugs and booze is pretty common also foul language. (Enter excuse: what about the kiddies?)
... I guess its all about who you insult, much like these forums

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beagle21

What do any of your highlights have to do with collective responsibility? I don't think you have the faintest idea of what he was saying yet you quoted him with this nonsensical reply.

Also since he specified Germany in particular you should be aware that they have strict rules regarding TOC and German law takes precedence

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The highlighted parts show the people who were banned agreed to the terms of service, what they did was clearly a violation of the terms of service and that supercell is alowed to ban acounts if they suspect they may have violated the terms. Its clear supercell have done nothing wrong and the people who were banned are not owed an apology.

German law has nothing to do with this, he only mentioned Germany when he compared supercell to nazis. Supercell is not german they are From Finland, German law isn't relevant to their terms of service.

This is has nothing to do with collective responsibility, the banned players were warned about their behaviour before, if they had an issue with what their clan mates were saying they would have left the clan. As the verbal warning was ignored supercell had no choice but to take action, they didn't know who was involved and who wasn't so the only option was banning the whole clan.

Seems harsh to ban an entire clan but it sounds like they/multiple members were warned many times. You are typically judged by the company you keep so I can understand the two day bans. Doesn't seem terribly unreasonable to me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Flytrap

Clearly they were singled out. Not hard to find a clan with a insulting clan message.
Drugs and booze is pretty common also foul language. (Enter excuse: what about the kiddies?)
... I guess its all about who you insult, much like these forums

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These messages were obviously personal attacks and harassments, you can't compare that to a "I like drugs" message.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nmills

The highlighted parts show the people who were banned agreed to the terms of service, what they did was clearly a violation of the terms of service and that supercell is alowed to ban acounts if they suspect they may have violated the terms. Its clear supercell have done nothing wrong and the people who were banned are not owed an apology.

German law has nothing to do with this, he only mentioned Germany when he compared supercell to nazis. Supercell is not german they are From Finland, German law isn't relevant to their terms of service.

This is has nothing to do with collective responsibility, the banned players were warned about their behaviour before, if they had an issue with what their clan mates were saying they would have left the clan. As the verbal warning was ignored supercell had no choice but to take action, they didn't know who was involved and who wasn't so the only option was banning the whole clan.

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I don't think you understand what I or he was saying, we will just have to agree to disagree.