Without opt-out, this is going to tear many clans apart

First off, the concept here sounds awesome and thanks for the FAQs! However, I think there is a fatal flaw.

If there is no way for a leader to select which members to bring to war (or provide members the ability to opt-out of clan wars), you're going to rip apart a ton of clans.

For example, my clan is a mix of resource farmers and trophy farmers. In fact, this can change over time as an individual player's strategy changes. Mixing all of these people together is going to cause those who want to wage war to be really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ at those who want to farm and have their town hall sitting out in the open.

I've seen some people who want to save a war base and a regular base, but that would be unworkable since every time you added something to your village base, you'd have to do the same on the war base. I get that.

But some of these clans have been around for a while and have a great history. Right now, those who want to hunt trophies and those who want to farm loot co-exist nicely. Dragging those who don't want to wage war into the mix is only going to rip apart these kinds of clans. Can you imagine the dialogue within the clan when the war is lost by one star and it's because someone left their town hall outside to farm (or they're out of town and won't be able to attack at all)? Many clans like ours love the idea of clan wars, but won't participate for fear of this happening.

The simple solution here is to allow a clan leader to select who to send to the war. Alternatively, users can opt-out in their settings (but still spectate to cheer the clan on).

I'm a programmer, so I realize that things are not always as simple as they appear. However, this does not strike me as a difficult solution from a programming perspective. I imagine the decision not to include an opt-out was made from a game design perspective. If this functionality is not provided, I'd respectfully be curious as to the rationale behind that decision - seeing as it's likely to rip apart many happy clans.

Just my two cents worth.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LuapLeit

The simple solution here is to allow a clan leader to select who to send to the war. Alternatively, users can opt-out in their settings (but still spectate to cheer the clan on).

I'm a programmer, so I realize that things are not always as simple as they appear. However, this does not strike me as a difficult solution from a programming perspective. I imagine the decision not to include an opt-out was made from a game design perspective. If this functionality is not provided, I'd respectfully be curious as to the rationale behind that decision - seeing as it's likely to rip apart many happy clans.

Just my two cents worth.

---

I'm not sure if the that is the simple solution. because what if you have more than 4 dedicated farmers? you still have to fight because clan wars is 10 vs 10, 15 vs 15, up to 50 vs 50

Besides.. being part of a clan.. you have to expect some wars right?.. you can't just farm forever and ever.

This is Clash of Clans.. not Farming of Clans.

i see what you mean by clan dynamics may change but you can look at the flipside and say it'll bring more fun and excitement to clans.. and besides.. you get loot if you win a war!.. beats clicking next 100 times right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LuapLeit

First off, the concept here sounds awesome and thanks for the FAQs! However, I think there is a fatal flaw.

If there is no way for a leader to select which members to bring to war (or provide members the ability to opt-out of clan wars), you're going to rip apart a ton of clans.

For example, my clan is a mix of resource farmers and trophy farmers. In fact, this can change over time as an individual player's strategy changes. Mixing all of these people together is going to cause those who want to wage war to be really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ at those who want to farm and have their town hall sitting out in the open.

I've seen some people who want to save a war base and a regular base, but that would be unworkable since every time you added something to your village base, you'd have to do the same on the war base. I get that.

But some of these clans have been around for a while and have a great history. Right now, those who want to hunt trophies and those who want to farm loot co-exist nicely. Dragging those who don't want to wage war into the mix is only going to rip apart these kinds of clans. Can you imagine the dialogue within the clan when the war is lost by one star and it's because someone left their town hall outside to farm (or they're out of town and won't be able to attack at all)? Many clans like ours love the idea of clan wars, but won't participate for fear of this happening.

The simple solution here is to allow a clan leader to select who to send to the war. Alternatively, users can opt-out in their settings (but still spectate to cheer the clan on).

I'm a programmer, so I realize that things are not always as simple as they appear. However, this does not strike me as a difficult solution from a programming perspective. I imagine the decision not to include an opt-out was made from a game design perspective. If this functionality is not provided, I'd respectfully be curious as to the rationale behind that decision - seeing as it's likely to rip apart many happy clans.

Just my two cents worth.

---

Your Clan War base is separate from your farming base
- you can still continue leaving your TH out.
Status quo does not change.

I don't see how this should cause discord in any clan... :confused:

-----
The little Potatroll

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by maggiep0tat0

Your Clan War base is separate from your farming base
- you can still continue leaving your TH out.
Status quo does not change.

I don't see how this should cause discord in any clan... :confused:

-----
The little Potatroll

---

this too..

is it that hard to prepare a war base.. let it save.. and then go back to a farming base?

it's really an inconvenience for.. 1 hour..

Even if you are forced into a clan war without liking it, you don't lose any trophies or resources when you get attacked by the enemy clan. I dont see how it would at all be detrimental. Just pretend it isn't there and continue farming.
Edit: It is explained in the FAQ that any resource taken from your base during the war is not actually lost from your storages, it is simply given to the attacker.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by maggiep0tat0

Your Clan War base is separate from your farming base
- you can still continue leaving your TH out.
Status quo does not change.

I don't see how this should cause discord in any clan... :confused:

-----
The little Potatroll

---

BUT...the war base is copied from your regular village at a time you (as an individual) have have little control over. If you were planning to be AFK when that timer runs out, you'll have to juggle a shield or something to have the correct base copied, without risking losing resources by logging out with the wrong base. (Mainly the likelihood of being zapped multiple times is the problem here.)

Another solution would be to allow you to manually create the war base from your village any time during prep day by pressing a button. But, this still means that you'll be redesigning your base twice every two days, which is clunky at best. And, there is still the problem of visitors, people on vacation, and people without time to redesign their base over and over, getting swept up in a war they aren't interested in. Leaders will have to kick people to keep them out of the war, or else set up a new clan just for the war mongers. Opt-out would solve that.

Instead of having an opt-out option for clan members, why not have an opt-in option, that way unprepared clashers wont be forcefully dragged into clan wars without their knowledge...

Clan Wars, in my opinion, will weed out useless clans. Which is good because there are too many!!

I think the match making will be key to this issue. I think the average clan has a few players that are inactive, devoted farmers or considerably lower levels. Every war may have five to ten of these gimmie bases to hit. That's where the strategy of choosing attacks will come in. I think one effect of this update will be A LOT of players getting kicked from their clan. At the very top, wars may be brutal, but I think this fear is being overblown a bit. It will add a whole new dynamic to the clan environment though.

I think this is a legitimate concern. Clan wars would certainly work as is, but there is almost always room for improvement in almost any idea.
So, yes this is "clash of clans" not "farming of clans" :rolleyes:, but farming remains the quickest and easiest way to up your resource count and as we all know, maxing out a base takes quite a while, even for prolific farmers...
As for it being "simple" to switch between farming and war base, this is true is most cases, but many of the most effective war bases will be dedicated war bases and even doing simple changes takes time (and anything beyond swapping a TH and some other building in the middle takes more time - and this strategy isn't usually the best way to optimize a war base anyways). As mentioned, since resources looted during a war will not come from your own resource storages, having storages and collectors protected will be of minimal concern in a war base, but will remain of maximal concern in a farming base (who wants to leave their almost full storages less protected for any significant amount of time when not under a shield while they wait for the "preparation day" to end and replicate their base?). Also, timing could be an issue, maybe you aren't able to coordinate between 50 members of a clan to have them all ready to switch over to "war bases" in the allotted 24 hour period. A few people (or even one person) who miss the deadline and leave the TH outside their walls could mean the difference between a win and a loss. People in the same clan from different time zones could also complicate things. If they aren't able to log in and change their base right before the "preparation" period ends, they may be stuck leaving valuable storages less protected or at the very least, leaving their farming base "un-optimized" for a significant period of time while they sleep or whatever... The nice thing is, you don't lose anything for losing a war, but I'm still sure most people are going to be wanting to win a war, yesh? That's why you're doing it in the first place...:rolleyes:

I see several potential solutions to this:

One would be allowing players to either "opt-out" or "opt-in" (not sure which would be more effective) and/or allowing leaders/co-leaders the ability to "out-out" or "opt-in" people (as opposed to booting people who may be temporarily inactive, on vacation, AWOL, etc...).

Two would be to implement saved base layouts as many people have requested (although that would seem to be a more complicated bit of coding). This point still wouldn't solve the problem of what to do with people who are temporarily inactive, on vacation, AWOL, etc, but would be a big help (and time saver) to most people.

Three would be to implement clan alliances and alliance chat as mentioned here: http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...-of-Mastermind
which would allow a clan to split into a warring clan and a non-warring clan, but still be connected for social (or other) reasons. This would be a little more complicated, but could be good long-term solutions for many clans.

Four would be to allow a person to hit a button when they are done preparing their war base which signals the game to use that design when replicating (as opposed to automatically doing it at the end of the 24 hour "preparation" period). The person, can then switch back to the farming base and not have to worry about logging off while leaving storages or whatever unprotected.

I think the "quickest and easiest" solution would be #1 and #4, and the ability to use #2 and #3 would both complement and enhance the overall experience for people with different goals, desires, and abilities.

I know some of these ideas are already mentioned in the post, but I figured I would conduct an overview as I currently see it. :D

Hey, the loot in a clan wars base is computer generated, its not that persons loot...

Well tough. Change happens. Trophy pushes break up clans; no trophy pushes breaks up clans; school breaks up clans; all sorts of things break up clans. Yes, there will be a restructuring period and a lot of lesser clans will collapse, but new ones will form, and if all you want to do is war (or never war), you'll just have to adapt. Our clan is just finishing up a push, and we're pretty sure we can manage a war every week or two without killing off our player base. Maybe we'll lose half the time, but it should add some spice to endless farming with a push every month and a half to two months.

Letting players opt out motivates people to not try hard to achieve. We have a feeder, and when we're pushing, anyone who doesn't want to push just jumps over there. Might lose a few people, but it is what it is. Just don't war too often, and let anyone who doesn't want to participate bail the day before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rdtx2012

I'm not sure if the that is the simple solution. because what if you have more than 4 dedicated farmers? you still have to fight because clan wars is 10 vs 10, 15 vs 15, up to 50 vs 50

Besides.. being part of a clan.. you have to expect some wars right?.. you can't just farm forever and ever.

This is Clash of Clans.. not Farming of Clans.

i see what you mean by clan dynamics may change but you can look at the flipside and say it'll bring more fun and excitement to clans.. and besides.. you get loot if you win a war!.. beats clicking next 100 times right?

---

Ok, so let's say the war is on. Both sides are lined up against each other. Let's say that in a typical clan of 50, half of them are farming (to grow their base) and half are trophy hunters (in most clans, more of the people are farmers, in my experience).

Who is going to get attacked? The farmers who aren't really participating in the war to begin with. The entire strategy of this game is to prey on the weakest link for the biggest gain.

So, in a happy, and well-functioning clan, what do you think is going to happen? The trophy hunters are going to be angry at the loot hunters. My point is that right now they get along fine and are socially friendly with each other. What's going to happen when that dynamic changes?

You're going to bust up some great clans.

The game isn't called "Clash of Farmers" as you say, but it also isn't called "Clash of Disconnected Villages."

Farmers will be able to participate - they just need to move their TH inside temporarily. Obviously, warring every two days will destroy farming clans, but either pick war or farming and switch your players, or only war once per week. Change happens, you adapt or you die. Find a partner clan and one of you be farming and the other war, with free movement between depending on what players feel like doing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SargeantZeal

Instead of having an opt-out option for clan members, why not have an opt-in option, that way unprepared clashers wont be forcefully dragged into clan wars without their knowledge...

---

Great idea....