Sharonsym, I need help.

I started playing this game about 2 months ago and read your thread about your premie th7/8/9 journey two weeks which made me decide that I should also go ahead and upgrade my th7 to th8 since I had already maxed all my level 7 walls as a th7.

I am now a th8 and I must say the loot at 1300-1500 trophies absolutely SUCKS! I used to raid 2-4m gold per hour as a th6/7 at 800-1100 trophies. In fact, it took me just under 6 days to max all my th7 level 7 walls and still had a lot of gold and elixir to max barracks e.t.c. I used to use the giants, healers, wallbreakers, archer and goblins, but since arriving at th8, I have a 50% loot penalty against th6 so I avoid going below 1200 trophies because I know I will find a lot of th6 noobs there but because of the 50% loot penalty, I will end up pressing next for 10 minutes. I no longer use my giant/healer strategy as most of the people I find now are th7/8s with an extra AD. Which means I must now use my level 4 BARCH strategy.

I followed your advice and as soon as my th8 upgrade finished, I upgraded my labs immediately and as of now it has under 24 hours to complete. My BARCH are so weak against level 8 that I just end up pressing next against most of them. The th7s are also pretty strong against my BARCH, if they have a compartment base design which means my barbs will continue futilely slashing against the walls while the WTs and mortars wipe them out.

I rarely find any collector raids at silver 1 - gold 2-3. If I do, it's the equivalent of Christmas for me as it's just so damn rare. I don't attack anyone below 130k gold as waiting 10-15 for the troops I queued in the barracks to finish training is painful.

My current army composition is 70 barbs (level 4), 88 archers (level 4), 6 giants as tanks (level 4), 6 wallbreakers (level 4) so that stupid barbs don't slash useless walls while mortars and WT obliterate them.

I still struggle against compartment style th7 bases with loots in the storages and I have to sometimes spend 50-100k gold pressing next until I find a good base at 1300-1500 trophies.

I'm in desperate need of help as farming gold has not been a problem for me before and I could easily max my walls in days, now I only farm 1m gold per hour, and that's with boosted barracks too. Any USEFUL input and suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated!

To give you an idea of how proficient a gold farmer I was prior to th8, I started playing this game around 28th January 2014 and I have hit 103m gold grab and 67m elixir escapade

Did you max out your troops and defenses at TH7? I see you said you did your walls. If not get on maxing those troops and defenses. I have found that with TH levels, and changes in the game I have to experiment with different armies to find what works. Also try different trophy ranges cause that makes a big difference too. There are tons of youtube videos out there on different attack strategies, and forum posts about them too. Check them out and try different things, but unfortunately loot penalties can get worse the higher you go, a lot of forumers say TH7 is where the sweet spot is for loot. Good luck!

ps: pressing next 10 times sounds nice i can easily press next 50 times before finding the right base, or get lucky and find one in under 10. its all part of the game as you progress

I was also having the same problem with not enough loot and my army being so weak, once your barbs and archers hit lvl 5 they will get stronger and it will be easier....and g1 has a lot of loot but you have to worry about th9-10 hitting you and also you trying to attack there base, the only thing I can give you is either suck it up and take on the 100k or keep clicking next...not to sound mean, but there's only 2 options...I'm currently in g3 and have been raiding all day and have spent at least 70k minimum on just pressing next but there has been that certain noob that has 200-300k gold and elixir and it has been really worth the wait!!

Read again, he said lv4 archer, barb and giant, so they're max at th7

Getting loot from TH 7 is still doable for new TH 8, until you got all the lvl 5 troops which won't be too long.

Hanging around the gold 3-2 is still best for you. If you didn't find any good loot within 50-100 k, now this might seems something required attention. Did you raid at the same time everyday ? How much do you consider a 'good loot'?

I have a clan member who I told to rush his TH to 8 since, from the frequency of his on-lines, I determined he can easily catch up. He moved up from his usual haunt in silver 1-2 to gold 3-2 and actually found good loots everywhere. Even breaking his own records of most gold per raid.

I did great raiding in silver1 and gold3 with level 4 troops TH7. I also just recently upgraded my town hall to 8 and my troops are almost at level 5. you got to be able to add up the cost/loot better it seems. if I see a base that im sure has 30-40 loot in the collectors that I can raid with 20 archers i'll take the trophy loss knowing that I can reclaim trophies easy. don't get to greedy only looking for raids that pay out big or you will be waiting forever and spending a lot of loot passing bases. if you can get 30-100 thousand off of a raid with the low cost of only a couple of troops and the fast time turn over rate it adds up fast. when I farm I will bounce up and down in trophies anywhere from 1300-1500 if I get to low i'll take some easy victories off of farming bases. the rule I follow is "Know how to lose" make your defeat a victory with loot


TheDonMega...Shield of Doom

Damn. I am literally in the same situation right now. New th8 with lvl 4 troops. Also, 1300-1400 is a dead zone for collector raids. And i have to press next quite a few times. But luckily, for me there is good loot period everyday for about 4 hours in the morning. So, i would suggest keep searching for that time period and try 1200-1350 trophy range. I also use barch with few wbs, heal spells and level 5 bk.

I'm here ... lol...

I catch up all the new 50 walls to skulls and the old 175 to skulls to in about 20 days...

first of, I won't use giants because Lv.4 and Lv.5 giants stills require healers to be effective.
a decent TH7 is still too strong for your current lv.4 troops, so you must hold your desire until you have lv.5 troops.

So, In my first days of TH8, I just farm those rich th6, weak th7 or collectors / pumps...
What TH6? yes... you will get just half you can get compared when you're a TH7, but I think 120K for easy raids is still worth for a very early stage rite?

You will be nowhere your farming performance on TH7 before you have lv.5 troops
but don't worry because when you receive the lv.5 archers, it's a huge improvements... you'll able to take stronger guys, then when those barbs lv.5 comes, th7 won't be problems anymore because the barbs now can take more mortars hits..

when I'm TH8, I'm hovering around 1100-1300 in my early days.
then when you have those lv.5 troops you can head to silver1 or gold3 to find more loot

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Originally Posted by ingiro22

Did you max out your troops and defenses at TH7? I see you said you did your walls. If not get on maxing those troops and defenses. I have found that with TH levels, and changes in the game I have to experiment with different armies to find what works. Also try different trophy ranges cause that makes a big difference too. There are tons of youtube videos out there on different attack strategies, and forum posts about them too. Check them out and try different things, but unfortunately loot penalties can get worse the higher you go, a lot of forumers say TH7 is where the sweet spot is for loot. Good luck!

ps: pressing next 10 times sounds nice i can easily press next 50 times before finding the right base, or get lucky and find one in under 10. its all part of the game as you progress

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I maxed my walls and most troops that I use such as barbs, archers, wallbreakers, giants and wizards.

I am an active player almost everyday, except when i'm busy with uni work or lectures. I didn't max my defenses because as sharonsym said, if i have max troops and i'm active for many hours daily I will always recover what I lost in a raid and even make much more.

I've tried 900-1300 and I find mostly th6 noobs which due to the 50% loot penalty I can't raid because they would be a waste of my troops training time. I don't press next 10 times, I said I press next for 10 minutes, lol.

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Originally Posted by sharonsym

I'm here ... lol...

I catch up all the new 50 walls to skulls and the old 175 to skulls to in about 20 days...

first of, I won't use giants because Lv.4 and Lv.5 giants stills require healers to be effective.
a decent TH7 is still too strong for your current lv.4 troops, so you must hold your desire until you have lv.5 troops.

So, In my first days of TH8, I just farm those rich th6, weak th7 or collectors / pumps...
What TH6? yes... you will get just half you can get compared when you're a TH7, but I think 120K for easy raids is still worth for a very early stage rite?

You will be nowhere your farming performance on TH7 before you have lv.5 troops
but don't worry because when you receive the lv.5 archers, it's a huge improvements... you'll able to take stronger guys, then when those barbs lv.5 comes, th7 won't be problems anymore because the barbs now can take more mortars hits..

when I'm TH8, I'm hovering around 1100-1300 in my early days.
then when you have those lv.5 troops you can head to silver1 or gold3 to find more loot

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I'll do as you say and drop trophies down to 1000-1300 to pick off rich th6 guys. The main problem I have with that is lots of them push trophies too high and have noob bases and noob resources and it costs me 580 to skip finding all those noobs.

My lab upgrade finishes in 22 hours and I have already saved up 3.3m elixir to begin my level 5 archer upgrade immediately so that's what I'll do.

I'd appreciate it if you could provide more advise in the future thanks, I intend to remain at th8 for a while until I max my walls, heroes and offenses. Right now my priority is on my walls as those skulls look badazz!

My name in game is Miracle and i'm in kat power.

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Originally Posted by KPA7

I'll do as you say and drop trophies down to 1000-1300 to pick off rich th6 guys. The main problem I have with that is lots of them push trophies too high and have noob bases and noob resources and it costs me 580 to skip finding all those noobs.

My lab upgrade finishes in 22 hours and I have already saved up 3.3m elixir to begin my level 5 archer upgrade immediately so that's what I'll do.

I'd appreciate it if you could provide more advise in the future thanks, I intend to remain at th8 for a while until I max my walls, heroes and offenses. Right now my priority is on my walls as those skulls look badazz!

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errrr... I'm not advising you to pick off those th6 rich guys as priority...
you will find them occasionally, and I think it's still worth the raid

but your prime targets must be those weak th7 guys and collectors / pump raid...

You should skip this 100K-120K guys first if you find them within on your first "next",
try to find better loot first...
but if you feel you've pressed too much next, then you can bang them.

seems that I'm wrong putting those th6 guys on first of the list...

it should be : collectors / pumps -> weak th7 -> rich th6

Hey I went to th 8 a bit early by most people standards as well maybe 2 weeks ago so its still fresh in my mind. First off great job on raiding sounds like you've been doing the same pace as me which i haven't seen too much Ive been playing a bit longer since Jan 7. I was using more giants and heavier on gobs as the 7 looking for pumps if possible. Now at TH I have switched to a mostly barching army and have had more success.

Here my army comp you might want to try. 40 barbs, about 100-110 archers, 6-8 breakers, 2 giants, 15-20 gobs, 1 minnon in case and if I wanna play it safe 2 lightening for mortar after I lure cc on top of it and 1 rage. If I care less about keeping trophies and want to raid quicker than I'll do all rages since its more important to my attacks and will leave one or two left over. I also have a Lev 7 king but he's been down upgrading quite often so not always used.

Half the battle for me was learning how to pick battles my barch could get to gold. Now after a week of it I almost never loose and get into even maxed TH 8 cores and maybe mid th 9s maybe not core but that depends.
I generally of course try to look for people with gold only 1 compartment deep of course but raged wall breakers make getting into core easy. I usually drop my rage as soon as I clear traps, drop giants and some more barbs for cover than I drop rage and send wall breakers in waves of two. Should have you in cors in seconds. Even though my attacks re focused up the center I had some failures until I learned to fan a decent amount of barbs and archers around 50% of base to keep some splash off guys going for gold.

Thats just how I do it and I'm sure its no different so this may not have helped lol. The main thing is just climb to gold 2 and get used to using your barch Army as it takes more practice than it looks like. I was farming gold 2 with lev 4 barch fine.

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Originally Posted by sharonsym

I'm here ... lol...

I catch up all the new 50 walls to skulls and the old 175 to skulls to in about 20 days...

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How did you do that?? like 120m in 20 days, as well as defenses..? Did you just play all day? Did you boost barracks?

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Originally Posted by ChristianBPoulsen

How did you do that?? like 120m in 20 days, as well as defenses..? Did you just play all day? Did you boost barracks?

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why not, it's just 6-8 mil /day

those hardcore farmers can do like 15-20 mils / day without boost
Brandon do got 3+ mil/hours... He's insane... Lol...

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Originally Posted by sharonsym

why not, it's just 6-8 mil /day

those hardcore farmers can do like 15-20 mils / day without boost
Brandon do got 3+ mil/hours... He's insane... Lol...

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I play a lot, yet i find my self only able to make around 3m/day. I usally use bam, what am i doing wrong?

Sharon is right, I made 10-16m daily as a th6-7. I remember as a th6 most of my raids were over 250k gold as I was farming rich th7s noons with air defense outside at 600-800 trophies. Now at th8 it's different and actually depressing because the game isn't as fun as it used to be for me at th6-7 raiding 2m in 45 mins and bragging to my clan about it.

For those of you at th6, 600-800 is the best range to farm, you will find lots of 200k gold bases with air defense on the outside. Just use giants to target the AD and deploy your healer immediately after and it's easy gold for you.

Arom what's your in game name and clan? I'd like to have a look at your base since we're not very far apart in terms of progress.

In game name is arom rodavlas clan Stargate with the purple and white logo. Feel free to hop in to chat and share replays if you'd like no pressure to stay or nothing. I'm sub 200 farming at the moment trying to upgrade as many defenses as possible before next weeks clan push. But there is plenty of skull walled bases down here which is what I farmed yesterday night.

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Originally Posted by sharonsym

I'm here ... lol...

I catch up all the new 50 walls to skulls and the old 175 to skulls to in about 20 days...

first of, I won't use giants because Lv.4 and Lv.5 giants stills require healers to be effective.
a decent TH7 is still too strong for your current lv.4 troops, so you must hold your desire until you have lv.5 troops.

So, In my first days of TH8, I just farm those rich th6, weak th7 or collectors / pumps...
What TH6? yes... you will get just half you can get compared when you're a TH7, but I think 120K for easy raids is still worth for a very early stage rite?

You will be nowhere your farming performance on TH7 before you have lv.5 troops
but don't worry because when you receive the lv.5 archers, it's a huge improvements... you'll able to take stronger guys, then when those barbs lv.5 comes, th7 won't be problems anymore because the barbs now can take more mortars hits..

when I'm TH8, I'm hovering around 1100-1300 in my early days.
then when you have those lv.5 troops you can head to silver1 or gold3 to find more loot

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Wow, you sure know your stuff man. Props to you for all the great advice you've given to other players!

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Originally Posted by Drew1999

Wow, you sure know your stuff man. Props to you for all the great advice you've given to other players!

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cudos! quite my oppinion. (warning: sarcasm!)

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Originally Posted by KPA7

Sharon is right, I made 10-16m daily as a th6-7. I remember as a th6 most of my raids were over 250k gold as I was farming rich th7s noons with air defense outside at 600-800 trophies. Now at th8 it's different and actually depressing because the game isn't as fun as it used to be for me at th6-7 raiding 2m in 45 mins and bragging to my clan about it.

For those of you at th6, 600-800 is the best range to farm, you will find lots of 200k gold bases with air defense on the outside. Just use giants to target the AD and deploy your healer immediately after and it's easy gold for you.

Arom what's your in game name and clan? I'd like to have a look at your base since we're not very far apart in terms of progress.

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the loot penalty only affects if you attack TH6, you will get 50% of your TH7 performance
if you attack TH7, you will get 90% of your TH7 performance
there is nothing changed if you attack TH8+

If th6/th7/th8 is distributed evenly on those cups area ... mixed together it will be 50% / 90% / 100% = about 80%

if you keep your range same as you're in TH7,
then you should make about 80% of that amount if you're TH8 on the same cups range with same troops, same strategy...

so, If you're farming 10-16m on TH7, you should get about 8-13m it's decent for a th stater :cool:

I think what is wrong is because you're afraid of the loot penalty, so you move to higher cups and find nothing there

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Originally Posted by sharonsym

the loot penalty only affects if you attack TH6, you will get 50% of your TH7 performance
if you attack TH7, you will get 90% of your TH7 performance
there is nothing changed if you attack TH8+

If th6/th7/th8 is distributed evenly on those cups area ... mixed together it will be 50% / 90% / 100% = about 80%

if you keep your range same as you're in TH7,
then you should make about 80% of that amount if you're TH8 on the same cups range with same troops, same strategy...

so, If you're farming 10-16m on TH7, you should get about 8-13m it's decent for a th stater :cool:

I think what is wrong is because you're afraid of the loot penalty, so you move to higher cups and find nothing there

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how's your baby boy

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Originally Posted by BrokenMindedJunior

how's your baby boy

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very good... very healthy...

million thanks... :o

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Originally Posted by sharonsym

the loot penalty only affects if you attack TH6, you will get 50% of your TH7 performance
if you attack TH7, you will get 90% of your TH7 performance
there is nothing changed if you attack TH8+

If th6/th7/th8 is distributed evenly on those cups area ... mixed together it will be 50% / 90% / 100% = about 80%

if you keep your range same as you're in TH7,
then you should make about 80% of that amount if you're TH8 on the same cups range with same troops, same strategy...

so, If you're farming 10-16m on TH7, you should get about 8-13m it's decent for a th stater :cool:

I think what is wrong is because you're afraid of the loot penalty, so you move to higher cups and find nothing there

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I dropped to 650-1000 trophies for a while today and managed to farm around 3-4m but unfortunately, it took me over 5-6 hours. I then went back up to 1000-1300 - currently at 1278 and have managed to farm a combined total of around 9-10 today. I'm aiming to do 12 walls daily at 6m gold per day and have already farmed 21 walls since I began yesterday.

I would appreciate anymore input from others out there that have been/going through this arduous journey at th8 to max out walls.

p.s. I spent 1.5m elixir yesterday or DE drill upgrade and began my level 5 archer upgrade at 2.2m elixir today, but i've already raided 3.4m elixir again. I have much more than I can spend and would like to know any other powerful elixir farming army as elixir cost is no longer a factor for me

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Originally Posted by KPA7

I dropped to 650-1000 trophies for a while today and managed to farm around 3-4m but unfortunately, it took me over 5-6 hours. I then went back up to 1000-1300 - currently at 1278 and have managed to farm a combined total of around 9-10 today. I'm aiming to do 12 walls daily at 6m gold per day and have already farmed 21 walls since I began yesterday.

I would appreciate anymore input from others out there that have been/going through this arduous journey at th8 to max out walls.

p.s. I spent 1.5m elixir yesterday or DE drill upgrade and began my level 5 archer upgrade at 2.2m elixir today, but i've already raided 3.4m elixir again. I have much more than I can spend and would like to know any other powerful elixir farming army as elixir cost is no longer a factor for me

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Awesome dude....

Just sit on 1000-1300 while waiting for those green archers... As soon they're out, raise a bit to adjust because you'll be able to take down more base and leave the th6 area.

About elixir, I don't take them anymore since TH7. I go for gold, DE... Any farmed elixir is bonus and they will automagically filled because you just need them for lab upgrades.

Barch is the best army for th8... Just let the elixir overflow...

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Originally Posted by sharonsym

Awesome dude....

Just sit on 1000-1300 while waiting for those green archers... As soon they're out, raise a bit to adjust because you'll be able to take down more base and leave the th6 area.

About elixir, I don't take them anymore since TH7. I go for gold, DE... Any farmed elixir is bonus and they will automagically filled because you just need them for lab upgrades.

Barch is the best army for th8... Just let the elixir overflow...

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All this is true!! I have been at the 14-1600 trophies range and all day yesterday I have been hitting 150+ raids, I was able to upgrade a lvl 5 mortar, de drill to lvl 2, army camp to lv7...and ad to lvl 5 just from using barch and about a consistent 4-5 hours play,I was able to farm like 2-3 lvl 7 walls!!

Thank you for the input, moneymo.

Sharonsym, how active is your clan? The reason why i'm asking is that I would love to be in the same clan as you so that you can further direct me on any other issues I may encounter.

I'm an active th8 that donates around 2000-4000 per season and I float around 1400-1500 trophies but may drop down a bit to farm weaker bases (that won't happen often when I get my level 5 BARCH).

I'm Miracle from the clan kat power if you would like to take a look at my base and discuss with your leader if I would be allowed in your clan.

@Miracle

Hey, I just visited your base again this morning

You already got all your skull walls in 3 weeks... impressive man... :cool:

seems like you're doing more than fine now, good luck on TH9... :cool:

I'm TH9 And in the 1600-1800 Trophy range, depending on what I'm searching for, And there's plenty of loot.
My Definition of Good loot is 200K of either gold or elixir, whichever I'm searching for.
i go up abit higher to DE hunt. But there is plenty of loot. Some are even in the mines, where I only use minimal amount of troops.
click ten times to search for a base? Not bad, considering at times i search 50-100 times 😎

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Originally Posted by sharonsym

@Miracle

Hey, I just visited your base again this morning

You already got all your skull walls in 3 weeks... impressive man... :cool:

seems like you're doing more than fine now, good luck on TH9... :cool:

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hehe, thanks. I could've finished them 7 days ago, but I had a busy week with lectures and progress tests at uni. I was also a bit lazy with farming as I was mainly watching movies and focusing on maxing my splash.

I'm going to start the town hall upgrade afer the builder from my level 7 bk finishes and max my splash defense, clan castle, elixir storage, and spell upgrades in between.

Your help was VERY much appreciated during my progress in town hall 8, but, I will still require your help as a premie th9 because the troop upgrades will take 14 days each.

I hope you continue to keep an eye on this thread as this will be my main means of communication to you when I arrive on th9. Thank you very much.

Congrats on the many level 10 walls and the more to come :D, you are clearly showing no mercy for those rich th8s and th9s.

i am barching at th8, have been for the past month or so, i can easily make 1mil an hour effortlessly. dont be picky and try looking for 200k+ bases, i'll get any storage raids with over 90k gold, elixir comes naturally and will always be overflowing even using it on spells non-stop.

you are obviously doing it wrong.

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Originally Posted by StrokerLocc

I'm TH9 And in the 1600-1800 Trophy range, depending on what I'm searching for, And there's plenty of loot.
My Definition of Good loot is 200K of either gold or elixir, whichever I'm searching for.
i go up abit higher to DE hunt. But there is plenty of loot. Some are even in the mines, where I only use minimal amount of troops.
click ten times to search for a base? Not bad, considering at times i search 50-100 times ��

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My definition of good loot since th7 has also been 200k. If the base has 200k in collectors or storages close to each other, I will hammer it with my modified BARCH of 10 giants, 8 wbs, 45-55 barbs and rest archers.

I don't press next 10 times (I don't know why people keep saying that). I said I press next for 10 MINUTES or more, lol. If I only had to press next 10 times to find a 200k or more gold raid, then I would have maxed my level 8 walls in 2 days.

Anyway, I found a guy with 496k gold in the collectors and storage, needless to say, I stripped him clean of everything. That was one of the major factors that allowed me to complete my level 8 walls last night.

Thanks for your input, I will be becoming a premie th9 in under 2 weeks and will be moving to 1600-1850 for gold. I intend to spend 6-7 months at th9 and completely max everything including lavas.

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Originally Posted by sunstrike

i am barching at th8, have been for the past month or so, i can easily make 1mil an hour effortlessly. dont be picky and try looking for 200k+ bases, i'll get any storage raids with over 90k gold, elixir comes naturally and will always be overflowing even using it on spells non-stop.

you are obviously doing it wrong.

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I highly doubt that i'm doing anything wrong considering that I started playing this game on the 28th January 2014 and have already maxed level 8 walls, level 5 troops, only 2 splash defenses left to max to level 6 and shortly i'm about to begin my th9 upgrade.

I farm 1-2m gold easily per hour, and my elixir has been maxed for the past 2 weeks that I just keep a few storages beside my town hall sometimes since I have nothing to do with the elixir. I am also taking my king to level 7 right now and have already saved 12.6k de to take him to level 8 or buy the aq when I finish my th upgrade. I don't target de specifically but I gain thousands as a result of smart and efficient BARCHing.

The reason why I started this thread was because I was a premie th8 and didn't know where to farm at. Sharonsym helped me with that and ever since I unlocked level 5 BARCH, giants and wallbreakers, farming has been a breeze.

These are not traits of someone who BARCHes incorrectly, lol. Let me know what you think.

Hi there, I will be following this threat if it continues.

I'm new here, and I'm rather new to Clash of Clans. I followed Sharonsym lead to premmie. I'm now three days away from TH8.

I started playing around februari 15th. I have all purple walls and will be maxed splash in three days, so defense wise I think I will be okay. I'm looking forward to the what might be a rough break in early TH8 (Now raiding >200k gold usually). Exciting, but hey, it's like going to the big leagues.

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Originally Posted by KPA7

hehe, thanks. I could've finished them 7 days ago, but I had a busy week with lectures and progress tests at uni. I was also a bit lazy with farming as I was mainly watching movies and focusing on maxing my splash.

I'm going to start the town hall upgrade afer the builder from my level 7 bk finishes and max my splash defense, clan castle, elixir storage, and spell upgrades in between.

Your help was VERY much appreciated during my progress in town hall 8, but, I will still require your help as a premie th9 because the troop upgrades will take 14 days each.

I hope you continue to keep an eye on this thread as this will be my main means of communication to you when I arrive on th9. Thank you very much.

Congrats on the many level 10 walls and the more to come :D, you are clearly showing no mercy for those rich th8s and th9s.

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Lol... wow... so you just farmed all those skullies in 2 weeks...

well... that's amazing impressive dude, I farmed them in 3 weeks and it's on christmas / new year holiday. You actually beat me already.

well, it's is not much changed for TH9 as you already farm on gold league... all you need is AQ, those 20 extra camps space and Lv.6 Giants. It will be actually even easier than TH8 once you get all those things.

I'm very sure .... You'll beat me again ... Lol...

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Originally Posted by JosSi

Hi there, I will be following this threat if it continues.

I'm new here, and I'm rather new to Clash of Clans. I followed Sharonsym lead to premmie. I'm now three days away from TH8.

I started playing around februari 15th. I have all purple walls and will be maxed splash in three days, so defense wise I think I will be okay. I'm looking forward to the what might be a rough break in early TH8 (Now raiding >200k gold usually). Exciting, but hey, it's like going to the big leagues.

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Much appreciated and welcome to the game/forums :)

Th8 early on is tough, as you will be confused about where the loot is, but stay at 1450-1750 and it will be smooth sailing.

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Originally Posted by sharonsym

Lol... wow... so you just farmed all those skullies in 2 weeks...

well... that's amazing impressive dude, I farmed them in 3 weeks and it's on christmas / new year holiday. You actually beat me already.

well, it's is not much changed for TH9 as you already farm on gold league... all you need is AQ, those 20 extra camps space and Lv.6 Giants. It will be actually even easier than TH8 once you get all those things.

I'm very sure .... You'll beat me again ... Lol...

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I intend to upgrade the new unlockable at th9 as follows:

1) Instant archer queen
2) 25 new walls and traps
3) Lab upgrade
4) Army camp
5) Army camp
6 & 7) 2 shows

Those are the core upgrades I'll do to keep my builders busy whilst I sort out my new base. I intend to use the black mamba base design as it's hog/gi...ant repellent

I've started the town hall 9 upgrade and it has 8 more days to complete. I've managed to max my 2 wizard towers and mortars, 1 mortar is being maxed right now and the other 1 wizard tower is going to level 4.

I've also raided 35k de but decided to put that on hold as it's just painful hiding under shield only for it to run out and I'm ambushed by hogs and balloonions which steal 2k de each time. So i've decided to wait until 1 day before the town hall completes and then get the 40k which shouldn't be too hard as raiding de is absolutely no problem for me and my modified BARCH army of 10 giants, 8 wallbreakers, 44 barbs and rest archers. I'm currently filling ul my gold and elixir storages as I don't really mind losing much of those because I can easily recover what I lost in 1 raid.

Hehe, you have set the benchmark for me and i will aim to beat you on those walls when i reach town hall 9 in a few days. Cloudwhiskey wrote that he completed his lavas in 6 weeks which i believe to be utter rubbish as that would mean he was raiding 23m+ gold daily WITHOUT boosted barracks. You are definitely my target and I hope to exceed you someday :D

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Originally Posted by KPA7

I've started the town hall 9 upgrade and it has 8 more days to complete. I've managed to max my 2 wizard towers and mortars, 1 mortar is being maxed right now and the other 1 wizard tower is going to level 4.

I've also raided 35k de but decided to put that on hold as it's just painful hiding under shield only for it to run out and I'm ambushed by hogs and balloonions which steal 2k de each time. So i've decided to wait until 1 day before the town hall completes and then get the 40k which shouldn't be too hard as raiding de is absolutely no problem for me and my modified BARCH army of 10 giants, 8 wallbreakers, 44 barbs and rest archers. I'm currently filling ul my gold and elixir storages as I don't really mind losing much of those because I can easily recover what I lost in 1 raid.

Hehe, you have set the benchmark for me and i will aim to beat you on those walls when i reach town hall 9 in a few days. Cloudwhiskey wrote that he completed his lavas in 6 weeks which i believe to be utter rubbish as that would mean he was raiding 23m+ gold daily WITHOUT boosted barracks. You are definitely my target and I hope to exceed you someday :D

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I'm not that crazy as you're... lol...

Well, I set my target to get a piece of lava / day, so it will be about 250 days :cool:

I started my lava walls on 03/18/2014... It's been 21 days and I've done 25 lavas, so.. It's more than fine... lol...

I see you upgraded to TH9 just like my condition... I've maxed skull walls and upgrading my WT when I press the upgrade button.

Yeah, beat me... bring it on buddy :cool:

My town hall 9 finishes in 4 hours. And I have 6m gold, 6m elixir and 80000 dark elixir, I managed to max all those 2 days after I pressed the town hall upgrade and have been hiding under shield which makes the game SOOOOO BORING!

Now, my plan is to build 2 shows for 6m, buy AQ upgrade her to level 2 for a total cost of 58,500 dark elixir, upgrade lab and 1 camp for 4.75m elixir. After the AQ finishes upgrading in 12 hours, I will begin maxing my elixir storage first then gold storage after.

Now as for a good th9 base. I want one that can survive mass hog, mass balloonions, mass giant + healer. I've been trying to decide between peabak's ringus and the black mamba. I like your transformable version of the ringus but I don't think it would fare well against balloonions, which is why i'm leaning towards the black mamba transformer version.

If possible, let me know how your ringus fares against balloonions as I know it is hog proof because of the non-defensive buildings around the core and the double bombs. Giants would not have an easy time against it because of the many compartment and the anti-defends targeting troop design.

Let me know in 4 hours before my th finishes, thanks :D

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Originally Posted by KPA7

Much appreciated and welcome to the game/forums :)

Th8 early on is tough, as you will be confused about where the loot is, but stay at 1450-1750 and it will be smooth sailing.

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Ok, thanks, I will move up!! Right now I'm just playing around 1200 - 1300. It's enough for my upgrades, but the walls are slowing down

1200-1300 a.k.a Silver I is no place for a th8. The loot penalty will KILL YOU there as there are too many th6s and poor th7s down there. Th8s should not go below 1450 minimum. The ideal range is 1550-1750, that's where I managed to farm over 150m gold in 3 weeks (mostly due to laziness). I have maxed my skull walls and would have done it quicker. I'm just a few hours from th9 now.

The th9 upgrade has finished. I've started my 2 shows, level 2 queen, lab upgrade and one level 8 army camp upgrade.

I also picks the black mamba base design and customised it with double bombs instead of separated singles.

I've run into the same problem I had at the beginning of th8 which is now pressing next too much and not finding decent loot. I'm currently at 1600-1700 trophies. Any tips on how to deal with crappy loot at the beginning of th9?

Wait... who is Sharonsym?

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Originally Posted by KPA7

The th9 upgrade has finished. I've started my 2 shows, level 2 queen, lab upgrade and one level 8 army camp upgrade.

I also picks the black mamba base design and customised it with double bombs instead of separated singles.

I've run into the same problem I had at the beginning of th8 which is now pressing next too much and not finding decent loot. I'm currently at 1600-1700 trophies. Any tips on how to deal with crappy loot at the beginning of th9?

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I found loads of loot from TH 8 in 1300-1500 trophies. Until you got your lvl 6 troops ready, this seems to be the ideal range.

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Originally Posted by Geronimosemiro

Wait... who is Sharonsym?

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The guy whom OP needs help from.

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Originally Posted by KPA7

The th9 upgrade has finished. I've started my 2 shows, level 2 queen, lab upgrade and one level 8 army camp upgrade.

I also picks the black mamba base design and customised it with double bombs instead of separated singles.

I've run into the same problem I had at the beginning of th8 which is now pressing next too much and not finding decent loot. I'm currently at 1600-1700 trophies. Any tips on how to deal with crappy loot at the beginning of th9?

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loot s*cks this 2 days... me too unable to farm...
spend 2x 150K nexting while earn @250K... so, I gave up... lol...

hopefully loot will come back soon :cool:

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Originally Posted by sharonsym

loot s*cks this 2 days... me too unable to farm...
spend 2x 150K nexting while earn @250K... so, I gave up... lol...

hopefully loot will come back soon :cool:

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I 100% agree with this. Loot sucks atm lol

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Originally Posted by sharonsym

loot s*cks this 2 days... me too unable to farm...
spend 2x 150K nexting while earn @250K... so, I gave up... lol...

hopefully loot will come back soon :cool:

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Man, loot has been terrible. The amount of nexting I have been doing is unhealthy for farming, even by premmie th9 standards. I'm going to snap up any collector raids for 50% and snipe to gold 1. Gold 2 has been bad and gold 3 is intolerable.

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Originally Posted by KPA7

Man, loot has been terrible. The amount of nexting I have been doing is unhealthy for farming, even by premmie th9 standards. I'm going to snap up any collector raids for 50% and snipe to gold 1. Gold 2 has been bad and gold 3 is intolerable.

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Lol then, glad I'm trophy pushing right now instead of farming. Loot has been pretty great Crystal+ ;) It might be because I'm TH 8 though...

Define "great". "Great" to me is 300k gold per raid or 2-3 gold per hour.

Is that what you are finding in crystal? If so, I will snipe to crystal immediately.

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Originally Posted by KamikazePekka

Lol then, glad I'm trophy pushing right now instead of farming. Loot has been pretty great Crystal+ ;) It might be because I'm TH 8 though...

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there is very less loot penalty on crystal league, even for th10.

if it's good for TH8, then it will be much better for th9 and amazing for th10

th9/th10 have much better troops than th8 to get the loot

@Miracle

the best things to GEM is the lab construction time...
it's like freeing 2 builders... 1 for regular builders and 1 research time

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Originally Posted by sharonsym

@Miracle

the best things to GEM is the lab construction time...
it's like freeing 2 builders... 1 for regular builders and 1 research time

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I've started the level 6 giant upgrade and when I save 4.5m elixir again, I'll gem the giant upgrade and begin the barb upgrade, then repeat the same thing for archer upgrade when I finish the storage for saving 7.5m elixir.

Really? Is crystal that good for loot? I'm currently farming at gold I and since I will be getting level 6 troops soon, I will snipe up to crystal and see. I just don't want to waste my time with sniping up there only to find out the loot is the same junk i'm finding in Gold II/I.

Crystal III at 2050 trophies has been even worse than gold I. Should I continue ascending or just drop back to gold I? What do you think?

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Originally Posted by KPA7

I've started the level 6 giant upgrade and when I save 4.5m elixir again, I'll gem the giant upgrade and begin the barb upgrade, then repeat the same thing for archer upgrade when I finish the storage for saving 7.5m elixir.

Really? Is crystal that good for loot? I'm currently farming at gold I and since I will be getting level 6 troops soon, I will snipe up to crystal and see. I just don't want to waste my time with sniping up there only to find out the loot is the same junk i'm finding in Gold II/I.

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excellent plan for your troops upgrade, If I have gems, I will do the exact...

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Originally Posted by KPA7

Crystal III at 2050 trophies has been even worse than gold I. Should I continue ascending or just drop back to gold I? What do you think?

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I never tried Crystal as Gold 2 - Gold 1 works for me...

be patient, everybody knows loot is very bad in this 2 days, I even don't have extra walls upgraded during this few days. My farmed gold is just enough to keep builders busy. lol...

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Originally Posted by sharonsym

excellent plan for your troops upgrade, If I have gems, I will do the exact...



I never tried Crystal as Gold 2 - Gold 1 works for me...

be patient, everybody knows loot is very bad in this 2 days, I even don't have extra walls upgraded during this few days. My farmed gold is just enough to keep builders busy. lol...

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Well crystal III loot has been worse than Gold II/I over the past few days, I'm just going to drop down to gold I.

i normally keep my trophy range within 1070 to 1200..and i easily loot upto 4-6 million resources everyday.
Just yesterday i did a 1 million loot(almost) . 5.4lac gold and 4.5lac elixir

Are you a th9?

I have just gemmed the lab time of my barbs, giants and archers. All 3 required me to save 18m elixir for them. Not bad for 4 days work :D

I have also noticed that 10 level 6 giants, 6 level 5 wbs, 50 level 6 barbs and rest level 5 archers are enough to stroll into ANY town hall 8 and take whatever they want. I have flattened so many th8 bases today with this army and it is so powerful that I feel sorry for them.

Loot is slowly returning, but I have only been able to find 1 collector base all day. The rest for me has been rich town hall 8s and it's so easy for me to walk in and take what I need or sometimes even everything (including their builders huts, lol)..

All in all, th9 farming troops cannot be stopped by town hall 8 maxed base, unless they have well pla es spring traps. The main advantage of level 6 troops is the ability of the giant to soak up damage, 6 of them have a similar amount of hp compared to a golem and they have the EXACT same housing space, LOL.

The collector raids are really rare, though the loot from the rich th8s (maxed or not) is very generous. I am going to push to G1/C3 in hopes of more collectors and I won't mind going into more of those th8 based for more loot on my way there :D.

Were you booted from your clan, sharonsym?

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Originally Posted by KPA7

Were you booted from your clan, sharonsym?

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I'm in Baby Unicorn now... for Clan Wars...

because there is so many inactives members.

PS: I think I have solution for the bad loot.
I raid DE recently, going to get those 1.5K+ DE at decent TH8 base is piece of cake... you knew it :cool:
My AQ and BK needs upgrade :cool:

It annoys me that people listen to sharonsym. This is supposed to be a long term game unless you gem. It isn't just about upgrading your townhall, it is about enjoying the game. If you are so desperate to go up before you max by all means go ahead and do it. I,don't really see the point. When you get a new townhall you get steamrolled and you can only up troops one at a time. Why not get your defenses up before you go up so you have a better chamce at defending. Sharonsym's strategy is bad for multiple reasons, but he/she won't admit it. Because he/ she thinks it is good and has only played that one way so it isn't much of an objective view.

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Originally Posted by HowlingJongo

It annoys me that people listen to sharonsym. This is supposed to be a long term game unless you gem. It isn't just about upgrading your townhall, it is about enjoying the game. If you are so desperate to go up before you max by all means go ahead and do it. I,don't really see the point. When you get a new townhall you get steamrolled and you can only up troops one at a time. Why not get your defenses up before you go up so you have a better chamce at defending. Sharonsym's strategy is bad for multiple reasons, but he/she won't admit it. Because he/ she thinks it is good and has only played that one way so it isn't much of an objective view.

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lol...

1. OP is not complaining about defense.
2. OP is fine... look at when this thread was started he is just a premie TH7 upgraded to TH8 and look at his base now. You can find him on Kat Power, IGN is Miracle... you will be amazed how fast OP progress. Can you do it like him?

What TH are you ? do you really know what happen in TH8 / TH9?

I wrote and tells the exact what happened and what I experienced, while people like you is just following and tells what people said.

Ah... when did you start this game? If I'm not wrong OP starts his game on January... It's just about 3 months ago. If he max his base he's just a TH6/TH7 by now.
Well, now you choose ... base like OP's or a TH7?

just lets people judge you whether you're smart or whatever ... :cool:

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Originally Posted by sharonsym

lol...

1. OP is not complaining about defense.
2. OP is fine... look at when this thread was started he is just a premie TH7 upgraded to TH8 and look at his base now. You can find him on Kat Power, IGN is Miracle... you will be amazed how fast OP progress. Can you do it like him?

What TH are you ? do you really know what happen in TH8 / TH9?

I wrote and tells the exact what happened and what I experienced, while people like you is just following and tells what people said.

Ah... when did you start this game? If I'm not wrong OP starts his game on January... It's just about 3 months ago. If he max his base he's just a TH6/TH7 by now.
Well, now you choose ... base like OP's or a TH7?

just lets people judge you whether you're smart or whatever ... :cool:

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not really sure if that last part was supposed to be an insult. Hard to understand it with all the grammatical errors. Same with the rest of it, but I assume that English isn't your first language. I would say th7 to answer your question. Not a base like ops. Like I said, it isn't all about getting your th up. Once you get to 10 if you aren't upping your defense, you are just going to have to do a bunch in a row. Maybe you prefer lower and more defense instead of higher and less defense, but I don't. I like sitting at a th level and upping things (a big part f the game), not just upping my th really fast. And I originally started this game like a year ago, but only played for a couple of days. I started really playing in Feb, and I am almost a maxed th7, with 4 cannons at 7, 4 AT at 7, 1 barrack at 8 and 1 at 7, 2/3 walls at 6 left to max.

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Originally Posted by sharonsym

I'm in Baby Unicorn now... for Clan Wars...

because there is so many inactives members.

PS: I think I have solution for the bad loot.
I raid DE recently, going to get those 1.5K+ DE at decent TH8 base is piece of cake... you knew it :cool:
My AQ and BK needs upgrade :cool:

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My solution in my clan was to kick inactive members, we went from being 50 members and losing 3 wars in a row to 25 members and winning 2 wars in a row. We will win this third war because we are kicking all those who are inactive, don't know how to attack or don't follow instructions.

Yeah, the loot has been so bad. But I managed to farm 6-8m yesterday around Gold I and started one level 2 xbow, I am currently 2.2m gold away from my second level 2 xbow.

I have maxed level 6 giants, barbs and archers. Working on healer level 3 and 4 after. I've also started maxing all 4 army camps and only have spell factory to do to become maxed offensive th9 and that can wait until I have a builder free. Queen is now level 5 and I need 3-4k more de until I can get her to level 6.

I know what you mean, de is so easy around Gold I, I farmed some rich th9/10 yesterday and they keep it so exposed. But I need to stick to gold to get these xbows to max and start on my AD and then splash defense after.

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Originally Posted by HowlingJongo

not really sure if that last part was supposed to be an insult. Hard to understand it with all the grammatical errors. Same with the rest of it, but I assume that English isn't your first language. I would say th7 to answer your question. Not a base like ops. Like I said, it isn't all about getting your th up. Once you get to 10 if you aren't upping your defense, you are just going to have to do a bunch in a row. Maybe you prefer lower and more defense instead of higher and less defense, but I don't. I like sitting at a th level and upping things (a big part f the game), not just upping my th really fast.

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so, you're TH7 ... That's what think too when I'm TH7... :)

how can you know that my strategy is bad and I can't admit it? have you seen my journey thread, have you seen OP's progress, how can you tells it's bad?

you can have all my battle logs on my thread, my defense is not as weak as you think...

well, If you start your game on January, you can compare it to OP's. If you started on before that, you can compare to mine because I started just about 2 months before OP.
Can you beat our base with your TH7 troops?
And can your TH7 base defend againts our attacks?

I knew if we keep all builders up, we will arrived in maxed TH10 in the same time whether to rush or not.
But TH rushers like us will have stronger heroes and stronger walls because we started grinding them earlier.

For example, It's just 5 months to max TH9 buildings if you come from a maxed TH8. During those time you will need 5 million DE and 1 billion gold to max dark troops, heroes and walls. If we do the math, you need to get 1m DE and 200m gold every month or you will have idle builders on the end of TH9 or you have to go to TH10 with lv.7/8 walls and lv.10 Heroes.

In other hand, we started TH9 earlier, so we have 8-9 months to grind those heroes and walls and we will have shiny lava/lego walls and super heroes before the builders runs out of projects and make a jump to TH10.

I'm sorry... I don't mean the insult post,
I think what annoys more is people that know nothing happen but just drop and tells that other is bad.

anyway, you're right buddy ... I just learn English in school :p

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Originally Posted by KPA7

My solution in my clan was to kick inactive members, we went from being 50 members and losing 3 wars in a row to 25 members and winning 2 wars in a row. We will win this third war because we are kicking all those who are inactive, don't know how to attack or don't follow instructions.

Yeah, the loot has been so bad. But I managed to farm 6-8m yesterday around Gold I and started one level 2 xbow, I am currently 2.2m gold away from my second level 2 xbow.

I have maxed level 6 giants, barbs and archers. Working on healer level 3 and 4 after. I've also started maxing all 4 army camps and only have spell factory to do to become maxed offensive th9 and that can wait until I have a builder free. Queen is now level 5 and I need 3-4k more de until I can get her to level 6.

I know what you mean, de is so easy around Gold I, I farmed some rich th9/10 yesterday and they keep it so exposed. But I need to stick to gold to get these xbows to max and start on my AD and then splash defense after.

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We've kicked inactives too, but we agree to build a war clans, so inactives don't have to be kicked and when some of us can't participate in wars, he can just stay on the regular clan and come back later

anyway, seems like loot has been back now on 1650+
I want to farm for my Lv.3 xbows as well... lol.....

Here's a quick question that's been on my mind for awhile.

Should I max out th9 completely, or should I upgrade to th10 before everything is maxed?

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Originally Posted by HowlingJongo

not really sure if that last part was supposed to be an insult. Hard to understand it with all the grammatical errors. Same with the rest of it, but I assume that English isn't your first language. I would say th7 to answer your question. Not a base like ops. Like I said, it isn't all about getting your th up. Once you get to 10 if you aren't upping your defense, you are just going to have to do a bunch in a row. Maybe you prefer lower and more defense instead of higher and less defense, but I don't. I like sitting at a th level and upping things (a big part f the game), not just upping my th really fast. And I originally started this game like a year ago, but only played for a couple of days. I started really playing in Feb, and I am almost a maxed th7, with 4 cannons at 7, 4 AT at 7, 1 barrack at 8 and 1 at 7, 2/3 walls at 6 left to max.

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It was his advise and guidance that got me to th9 and I intend to stay here for a few months because I want everything maxed before taking on th10 and the 4m gold per wall. If it wasn't for him, I would still be maxing teslas and air defense at th7, LOOL.

He knows what he is talking about and you can follow his th7/8/9 premie thread and see the progress people are making by becoming premmie th8/9.

Why would you want to remain at th7/8 for so long? Th8 is the worst town hall of all. You don't have extra army space, no extra spell space, no new heroes, no xbow. The only decent aspect of th8 are the level 5 archers as they're so powerful. When you finish maxing level 8 walls at th8 you will sit on full gold and watch premmie th9s like me stroll into your base with 12 maxed giants, 6 maxed wallbreakers, 40-50 maxed barbs and rest maxed archers. We will 100% your base and all because we are premmie who just happen to upgrade to the higher th after maxing our walls, troops and splash defence.

Now look at the benefits on th9: 20 army space, level 6 barbs, archers, giants, archer queen and an additional spell space. I have not met a th8 that I cannot 100% with all these and I can get into th10 bases with multi infernos (de raids). I don't need overpowered armies like balloonions, hogs, dragons e.t.c. to get every single one of their loot when I can just send in a basic level 6 farming army like mine to 100% their base.

That is the beauty of being premmie, you can steamroll bases that you couldn't before and the game becomes much more gum because you don't have to sit on full gold and watch those level 6 giants trashing your base and taking 600k loot every time. You can farm even harder and protect your resources better.

Sharonsym's native language is not English and I do believe he does very well to communicate in a coherent manner, so I don't know what you are complaining about, lol.

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Originally Posted by officialnoname

Here's a quick question that's been on my mind for awhile.

Should I max out th9 completely, or should I upgrade to th10 before everything is maxed?

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I would recommend you max th9 as their aren't many good unlockables at th10 besides 20 army space, 1 xbow and 2 infernos. Those upgrades themselves will cost an exorbitant amount so I would recommend you max th9. Also, th10 are unable to prey on th8 due to the 50% penalty, so you would need to master raiding th9s to even have a chance of farming successfully at th10.

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Originally Posted by KPA7

I would recommend you max th9 as their aren't many good unlockables at th10 besides 20 army space, 1 xbow and 2 infernos. Those upgrades themselves will cost an exorbitant amount so I would recommend you max th9. Also, th10 are unable to prey on th8 due to the 50% penalty, so you would need to master raiding th9s to even have a chance of farming successfully at th10.

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Yup, that's what I was thinking too.

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Originally Posted by sharonsym

We've kicked inactives too, but we agree to build a war clans, so inactives don't have to be kicked and when some of us can't participate in wars, he can just stay on the regular clan and come back later

anyway, seems like loot has been back now on 1650+
I want to farm for my Lv.3 xbows as well... lol.....

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Sounds like a good plan, but your members are all from the same nation and are dedicated to your clan. Most of ours weren't, lol.

Loot has been decent but quite inconsistent. Some periods you will find good loot, and then 20 minutes later you will be back to pressing next for 10 minutes.

I'm almost about to begin the second level 2 xbow upgrade and intend to keep upgrading them continuously for the entire 31 days it will take to max them to level 3.

What would you suggest be my upgrade priority after maxing shows? I was thinking of all 4 air defense continuosly until level 7 and then all 4 wizard towers continuously until level 7. My offense will be maxed as of tomorrow when I have a spare builder for SF, so I will be focusing on defendes and walls (i intend to keep builder free during the air defense or wizard tower maxing).

I do WT first, then xbows
my quad-lv.7 WT looks really cool... lol...

for AD, Dragons attacks is very rare... so Lv.5 is already enough ... :cool:

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Originally Posted by sharonsym

I do WT first, then xbows
my quad-lv.7 WT looks really cool... lol...

for AD, Dragons attacks is very rare... so Lv.5 is already enough ... :cool:

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Then I'll do 2 wizard towers as soon as I begin 2 level three xbows and leave 1 builder available because I need to start doing walls hardcore.

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Originally Posted by KPA7

Then I'll do 2 wizard towers as soon as I begin 2 level three xbows and leave 1 builder available because I need to start doing walls hardcore.

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that's great...

please catch me, I knew you'll do it...