Raiding issue makes clash no longer fun

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March 3rd, 2014
psy

Raiding issue makes clash no longer fun

I've undertook data collection for a month now, and have found some bad issues with the current raiding system.

This is from the viewpoint of a maxed everything (other than barb king and a couple DE lab upgrades) town hall level 8, raiding in the 1500-1650 trophy range (which seems to be one of the largest sectors of raids in clash, as many people are focused on obtaining loot to advance bases).

Here's my results, summarized:
On average, it takes clicking the next button 57 times (standard deviation of 11.41) to find a base "worth attacking" (worth attacking criteria being at least 150,000 gold, regardless of elixir or dark elixir). That is a cost of 33,060 gold per raid assuming my 580 gold per search cost, which if I found a base at 150k that's 22% of my loot completely gone already, assuming a 100% raid!

Finding bases with 150k+ elixir was substantially easier, coming in at 23 "next" clicks before finding one, with a stdev of 7.31

It is not fun to sit there and waste 20% of my loot before even attacking someone, then obtain only 20% of what it takes to upgrade one wall or 5% of other upgrades. I wish we could spend more time attacking and less time searching... maybe add some sort of feature to not find bases with less than a certain number but make it cost substantially for this search (e.g. find only bases with 200k+ gold, but costs 20,000 per search?) Not sure the fix, but something needs to be done. Over a year into this game, I'm very tired of spending 10 minutes finding someone to attack on a phone game- adding that up, its about 9 hours of play time to upgrade one defense, which is absolutely insane for a phone game.

Thanks for reading.

TLDR: Searching for a base worth attacking is excessively costly- both in gold and time
March 3rd, 2014
TheProfessor

Quote:

Originally Posted by psy

I've undertook data collection for a month now, and have found some bad issues with the current raiding system.

This is from the viewpoint of a maxed everything (other than barb king and a couple DE lab upgrades) town hall level 8, raiding in the 1500-1650 trophy range (which seems to be one of the largest sectors of raids in clash, as many people are focused on obtaining loot to advance bases).

Here's my results, summarized:
On average, it takes clicking the next button 57 times (standard deviation of 11.41) to find a base "worth attacking" (worth attacking criteria being at least 150,000 gold, regardless of elixir or dark elixir). That is a cost of 33,060 gold per raid assuming my 580 gold per search cost, which if I found a base at 150k that's 22% of my loot completely gone already, assuming a 100% raid!

Finding bases with 150k+ elixir was substantially easier, coming in at 23 "next" clicks before finding one, with a stdev of 7.31

It is not fun to sit there and waste 20% of my loot before even attacking someone, then obtain only 20% of what it takes to upgrade one wall or 5% of other upgrades. I wish we could spend more time attacking and less time searching... maybe add some sort of feature to not find bases with less than a certain number but make it cost substantially for this search (e.g. find only bases with 200k+ gold, but costs 20,000 per search?) Not sure the fix, but something needs to be done. Over a year into this game, I'm very tired of spending 10 minutes finding someone to attack on a phone game- adding that up, its about 9 hours of play time to upgrade one defense, which is absolutely insane for a phone game.

Thanks for reading.

TLDR: Searching for a base worth attacking is excessively costly- both in gold and time

Nice data collection. It doesn't really bother me as much about the next clicking. It occurred to me that once I have my walls done. There is really nothing better to do.
March 3rd, 2014
blakescool

Very nice

That sounds around the numbers I'm working with except im hangin at 1700
March 3rd, 2014
Gubert

If you search that much at th8 i wonder if you will have profit at th10
March 3rd, 2014
Treborray

loot is great! Robin From The Hood
March 3rd, 2014
orion33

Sorry, but I have never experienced such droughts.

Sure, every once in a while I will spend almost 100k searching, but it's pretty rare.

Just finished Legos!

IGN: orion
Clan: korean ACE
March 3rd, 2014
HansClashOfClans
Stop looking for 150k+ bases and start looking for 100k+ bases. Use just a simple barch army, no spells and the occasional hero.

I am a TH9, the total cost of this army is only:
- 10k elixer for barbarians (100 x level 5)
- 24k elixer for archers (120 x level 5)
I did not undertake data collection, but I am pretty sure my average of finding a decent base is somewhere around 40 clicks for 100k+ (both elixer and gold). This is a grand total of 30k gold.

That means I make about 70k gold and 70k elixer per raid. Ofcourse there is also the occasional full collector base that makes me even a lot more. I would say my average raid earns me 100k gold and 100k elixer. Pretty decent considering I can attack about once every 10 minutes.

Doesn't seem broken to me...

EDIT: Honestly, your data seems invalid and incredibly subjective. There are so many factors that could influence your data.
1. What makes you click next?
2. What is your army composition?
3. Collecting data to prove how bad the system is gives a high probability that you might be influencing the data in a negative way by clicking the next button easier then you would normally do!
4. Etc.

If you are trying to collect adequate data, you should really outline your perimeters better.
March 3rd, 2014
iHeroic

Dang that's depressing
March 3rd, 2014
Antonioca

I’m in the same boat and to be honest the data mean nothing to me. All I know is if it takes too long I start getting frustrated, then I get angry and then I put the game away and go play something else.

What does that mean, it mean that when I spent 10.00 this weekend it wasn’t on Clash, it was on another game. Why was I playing that game, because I gave up on Clash. It’s that simple. I don’t get 2 hours a night of play time, so I’m not going to spend it all frustrated and angry.

Don’t get me wrong, I still love it and I’m going to play but only when it’s fun. Once it’s not fun, I’ll go play something else until I feel like playing again.

I think a lot of people are like me and we are not going to spend money on something that’s just not fun most of the time. I spend more time pressing next than doing anything else.
March 3rd, 2014
Jcman
Quote:
Originally Posted by HansClashOfClans

Stop looking for 150k+ bases and start looking for 100k+ bases. Use just a simple barch army, no spells and the occasional hero.

I am a TH9, the total cost of this army is only:

10k elixer for barbarians (100 x level 5)
24k elixer for archers (120 x level 5)

I did not undertake data collection, but I am pretty sure my average of finding a decent base is somewhere around 40 clicks for 100k+ (both elixer and gold). This is a grand total of 30k gold.

That means I make about 70k gold and 70k elixer per raid. Ofcourse there is also the occasional full collector base that makes me even a lot more. I would say my average raid earns me 100k gold and 100k elixer. Pretty decent considering I can attack about once every 10 minutes.

Doesn't seem broken to me...

EDIT: Honestly, your data seems invalid and incredibly subjective. There are so many factors that could influence your data.
1. What makes you click next?
2. What is your army composition?
3. Collecting data to prove how bad the system is gives a high probability that you might be influencing the data in a negative way by clicking the next button easier then you would normally do!
4. Etc.

If you are trying to collect adequate data, you should really outline your perimeters better.
You are ok with a profit of 400k gold per hour?!?

That is terribly low... If that is the future of this game, I will not be playing it.. I'm maxing th9 full Legos 720 million gold grab as well... If I'm earning much less than a million gold per hour I feel I'm wasting my time... 600k per hour is the absolute worst Id consider accepting and only if I am raiding very casually... C'mon people, raise your standards... 100k raids being ok? Are you kidding me?
March 5th, 2014
psy

Any further thoughts?
March 5th, 2014
owene

Quote:

Originally Posted by psy

Any further thoughts?

Yes, go home, the loot is great.
March 5th, 2014
Zoltan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antonioca

I’m in the same boat and to be honest the data mean nothing to me. All I know is if it takes too long I start getting frustrated, then I get angry and then I put the game away and go play something else.

What does that mean, it mean that when I spent 10.00 this weekend it wasn’t on Clash, it was on another game. Why was I playing that game, because I gave up on Clash. It’s that simple. I don’t get 2 hours a night of play time, so I’m not going to spend it all frustrated and angry.

Don’t get me wrong, I still love it and I’m going to play but only when it’s fun. Once it’s not fun, I’ll go play something else until I feel like playing again.

I think a lot of people are like me and we are not going to spend money on something that’s just not fun most of the time. I spend more time pressing next than doing anything else.

I can completely relate to this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by owene

Yes, go home, the loot is great.

Don't be such a ♥♥♥♥♥
May 5th, 2014
psy

Issue still persists two months later. Anymore thoughts?
May 5th, 2014
TheConfuzed1

I'm at TH10, and loot is not an issue for me. Of course, I didn't rush my base either.

If the game is no longer fun, stop playing.
May 5th, 2014
rhysmc

atm with raiding its a case of diamonds in the rough with the loot
May 5th, 2014
TheConfuzed1

Quote:

Originally Posted by psy

...maybe add some sort of feature to not find bases with less than a certain number but make it cost substantially for this search (e.g. find only bases with 200k+ gold, but costs 20,000 per search?)...

Bad idea, as everyone would only have to dump their gold for a free shield.
May 5th, 2014
Antonioca

I still find it painful to play too often. Issue is still there for me. I find playing the next game very annoying. I’m not asking for easy raids or collector raids. I’m just asking for bases I can actually look at. When a base has fewer than 100,000 gold, I don’t even look at it, I just hit next. If it’s above 100 then I look, if it’s a gift, I take it, if it’s well above 100 I take a closer look and make the call depending on my army and the strength of the defences. The problem is 90% of what I get is under 100 and so I can spend 15 to 20 minutes trying to get a raid. That is frustrating and annoying.

I’m not asking for a gift, I just want an option. You know, we do pay gold for each search, it’s the quality of the search I have an issue with, and the more I pay the better the search should be. I shouldn’t have to pay for random, bad searches.

I have asked for an update on the loot situation, there was supposed to be an interview with Jonas and Chief Pat, but that never happened. They told me to hold on and it will come. So I’m on hold, still waiting. That was at least 2 weeks ago now.

I think they are happy with the way things are. If so, that’s great, but please let me know and I can decide what to do next.

I play all the SC games, and this is the only one I have this issue with. The others I play and enjoy and have spent more on them thean Clash. Well not Boom Beach, I haven’t hit that level yet, but it’s coming I can feel it.
May 5th, 2014
FrkyBgStok

You say clash isn't fun because of the loot, but you calculate search like that? Standard deviation? You sound fun!

Get off clash and create a hover board or something.
May 5th, 2014
Antonioca

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrkyBgStok

You say clash isn't fun because of the loot, but you calculate search like that? Standard deviation? You sound fun!

Get off clash and create a hover board or something.

I don't really understand your point, what do you mean "calculate search like that?"

I didn't say it wasn't fun, I said when you have to play the next game it is frustrating and annoying.
I still play, I just think they have an issue that needs to be fixed or at least explained.
May 5th, 2014
Styper

Point is, it was easier to find abandoned bases before the CW update. To me it became clear that they changed the matchmaking to remove or push back inactive bases in the queue.
May 6th, 2014
Antonioca

Quote:

Originally Posted by Styper

Point is, it was easier to find abandoned bases before the CW update. To me it became clear that they changed the matchmaking to remove or push back inactive bases in the queue.

I don't agree, I think it started when they changed the loot system. That's when I and many other started having issues finding bases to attack.
May 6th, 2014
mtommy2597
Quote:
Originally Posted by HansClashOfClans

Stop looking for 150k+ bases and start looking for 100k+ bases. Use just a simple barch army, no spells and the occasional hero.

I am a TH9, the total cost of this army is only:

10k elixer for barbarians (100 x level 5)
24k elixer for archers (120 x level 5)

I did not undertake data collection, but I am pretty sure my average of finding a decent base is somewhere around 40 clicks for 100k+ (both elixer and gold). This is a grand total of 30k gold.

That means I make about 70k gold and 70k elixer per raid. Ofcourse there is also the occasional full collector base that makes me even a lot more. I would say my average raid earns me 100k gold and 100k elixer. Pretty decent considering I can attack about once every 10 minutes.

Doesn't seem broken to me...

EDIT: Honestly, your data seems invalid and incredibly subjective. There are so many factors that could influence your data.
1. What makes you click next?
2. What is your army composition?
3. Collecting data to prove how bad the system is gives a high probability that you might be influencing the data in a negative way by clicking the next button easier then you would normally do!
4. Etc.

If you are trying to collect adequate data, you should really outline your perimeters better.
what is your level/gold grab
May 6th, 2014
Woozah

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antonioca

I don't agree, I think it started when they changed the loot system. That's when I and many other started having issues finding bases to attack.

Pretty much. The loot system change required a new search algorithm which they never put in place. The search cost was fine when there was a high amount of gold flowing in the system, as it is now it's not close to that use. The gold is very limited and the search cost has no longer any function in this game.

I doubt they'll change it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrkyBgStok

You say clash isn't fun because of the loot, but you calculate search like that? Standard deviation? You sound fun!

Get off clash and create a hover board or something.

You do realise that this game is made of people who knows math and programming?
May 6th, 2014
MattCoC

My advice is to mix up your raiding, do some fun attacks going for stars. Or start doing some pure DE farming, it's plenty easy to find bases with 1k DE to steal in gold 2 and gold 1. If you're just mindlessly after gold non-stop then you are going to just drive yourself crazy. (My GG is 132 mil, HH 280k)

I also found the easiest gold as a TH8 down around 1100-1300 trophies since it's mostly easy TH7s some of whom are jam packed with loot. I do mostly farm in the mid to upper gold leagues because I'm usually after DE and agree that there is less big gold raids up in this range.
May 6th, 2014
Woozah

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattCoC

My advice is to mix up your raiding, do some fun attacks going for stars. Or start doing some pure DE farming, it's plenty easy to find bases with 1k DE to steal in gold 2 and gold 1. If you're just mindlessly after gold non-stop then you are going to just drive yourself crazy. (My GG is 132 mil, HH 280k)

I also found the easiest gold as a TH8 down around 1100-1300 trophies since it's mostly easy TH7s some of whom are jam packed with loot. I do mostly farm in the mid to upper gold leagues because I'm usually after DE and agree that there is less big gold raids up in this range.

And as you are a TH8 there's nothing to add. TH8 has no where near the hard times finding loot as a TH9 or TH10. Sure, I won't lie that there aren't nice targets, there is. The problem is that on weekends you can next a whole day before finding a raid that is NOT less than 100k and NOT a maxed TH10. The problem also arises when the U.S wakes up, before that the loot is decent.
May 6th, 2014
MattCoC

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woozah

And as you are a TH8 there's nothing to add. TH8 has no where near the hard times finding loot as a TH9 or TH10. Sure, I won't lie that there aren't nice targets, there is. The problem is that on weekends you can next a whole day before finding a raid that is NOT less than 100k and NOT a maxed TH10. The problem also arises when the U.S wakes up, before that the loot is decent.

The person who started the thread is a TH8.

Reading is fundamental.

Way to be a total douche though. Go back and re-read the original post.

From the original Post:

Quote:

This is from the viewpoint of a maxed everything (other than barb king and a couple DE lab upgrades) town hall level 8, raiding in the 1500-1650 trophy range (which seems to be one of the largest sectors of raids in clash, as many people are focused on obtaining loot to advance bases).

So as it stands you have nothing to add to this thread whatsoever, so run along little one.
May 6th, 2014
LaughingTesla

I'm currently finding plenty of the loot around 1500 as TH8, and am casually farming a few mill a day. Don't know why people are complaining.
May 6th, 2014
Antonioca

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaughingTesla

I'm currently finding plenty of the loot around 1500 as TH8, and am casually farming a few mill a day. Don't know why people are complaining.

I'm around the same place, how many and how long would you say you raid?
How many times do you hit next before you get something you like?
May 6th, 2014
GameloverHD

I'm farming in Master III at TH10 and farming out 6,000,000 or more gold a day. Also hitting up 20,000 or more DE a day but I'm not really focusing on it. I use Balloons and Minions. Come up and try it out:p

BTW, I hit next 20 times at most looking for a juicy and possible base. Most bases are juicy but I can only take on some of them without large spell usage.