Industry Practice: Banning for found-bug exploit

I've recently had an argument with a friend about what the "norm" is regarding banning/being banned for exploiting a bug in a game that the user found by normally using the game.

Q1: I understand that you can momentarily freeze the account of such a user and confiscate anything obtained through the bug or reset the account but is it "normal" to ban them forever for exploiting a found (non-created) bug?

Q2: Does this happen for CoC? What happens if we realize that their is a bug that we can advantage from in Coc and use it until we are caught and temporarily frozen the account. Are we doomed to be banned?

I feel like game bugs are largely a responsibility of the game creator. And that you can temporarily freeze and confiscate accordingly but not ban them forever just because a user exploited a bug repeatedly or more than a certain #.

What do you think is the norm? In general, and from the standard of CoC?

:confused:

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Originally Posted by noobody

I've recently had an argument with a friend about what the "norm" is regarding banning/being banned for exploiting a bug in a game that the user found by normally using the game.

Q1: I understand that you can momentarily freeze the account of such a user and confiscate anything obtained through the bug or reset the account but is it "normal" to ban them forever for exploiting a found (non-created) bug?

Q2: Does this happen for CoC? What happens if we realize that their is a bug that we can advantage from in Coc and use it until we are caught and temporarily frozen the account. Are we doomed to be banned?

I feel like game bugs are largely a responsibility of the game creator. And that you can temporarily freeze and confiscate accordingly but not ban them forever just because a user exploited a bug repeatedly or more than a certain #.

What do you think is the norm? In general, and from the standard of CoC?

:confused:

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I'm opinionless....

Anyone with opinion or knowledge about the matter please...

From my experience with other online games, temporary or permanent bans are the norm for bug exploitation. It is the developers' fault for these bugs. However, it is also the developers' rule to refrain from such exploitations, which you agree to at the creation of your account.

I don't doubt that SC enforces the same thing. It really depends on how serious the exploit is though, in most cases.

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Originally Posted by noobody

Anyone with opinion or knowledge about the matter please...

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The answer for any game should be found under the terms and conditions of the specific game, and it is normally done on a game by game, offense by offense basis. A permanent ban in a game like CoC for exploitation is unlikely.

General rule of thumb the punishment should be determined by the magnitude of the offense.

Speaking of games in general, I've click wrap agreed for many game platforms, but for third publisher terms, I often don't go through a click wrap but usually only a browser wrap. I forgot when I explicitly agreed to the terms of CoC if there was any such occasion, but is a click-wrap the norm for games?

I had the argument as we differed on whether we were supposed to find it normal to be banned for having "exploited" (big word) a bug that existed because the game developer made a clear or unclear mistake.

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Originally Posted by noobody

Speaking of games in general, I've click wrap agreed for many game platforms, but for third publisher terms, I often don't go through a click wrap but usually only a browser wrap. I forgot when I explicitly agreed to the terms of CoC if there was any such occasion, but is a click-wrap the norm for games?

I had the argument as we differed on whether we were supposed to find it normal to be banned for having "exploited" (big word) a bug that existed because the game developer made a clear or unclear mistake.

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For CoC Specifically there was no I agree terms of conditions button when the game was installed it does however carry the generic Itunes Terms and Conditions.

For other games as I said before it's case specific, generally speaking if your actions are having a negative affect on other paying customers playing experience then you can expect action against you by the developers. While a bug is the fault of the developer, doing something that explicitly contradicts the terms and conditions of a game that you have agreed to put the fault back on you unless you can demonstrate that you clearly had and definitively had no idea it was an exploit.

In the case of you using and exploit to outwardly negatively impact the experience of other players, not only do you need to examine your selfish nature but you are damaging the core image of the game you are playing and destroying it for others and yourself.

To answer your question it is normal for developers to protect their products as and where necessary.

My Q isn't whether developers are in their right to defend interest and if we should expect it. That is normal.

My Q is whether a long or eternal ban (not just frozen or confiscated items) is justified when (1) a user exploits a bug that was not created by the user but found in the regular process of use, AND/OR when (2) the user did not "explicitly" (by a click of some sort or a clear process to read the terms in signing up) agree to the game's terms.

The question is of extreme degree of punishment and the process of agreement + the justification of ban and likely no refund for the exploit of a bug by fault of the developer and where the fruit of the exploit is likely confiscable or resettable (w/ exceptions of course).

So the norm is that it is not excessive to get eternally banned when user does that w/ no clear agreement to such terms?

I'm sure there's something about 'we should report any issues/bugs immediately'.

In fact the License agreement states:

'You agree that you will not, under any circumstances:
- Use cheats, EXPLOITS....designed to modify or interfere with the Service, any Supercell game, or any Supercell game experience'

Also...

"Supercell reserves the right to determine what conduct it considers to be in violation of the rules of use or otherwise outside the intent or spirit of these Terms of Service or the Service itself. Supercell reserves the right to take action as a result, which may include terminating your Account and prohibiting you from using the Service."

So...Tut Tut...dont' do it!

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Originally Posted by Icekool17

I'm sure there's something about 'we should report any issues/bugs immediately'.

In fact the License agreement states:

'You agree that you will not, under any circumstances:
- Use cheats, EXPLOITS....designed to modify or interfere with the Service, any Supercell game, or any Supercell game experience'

Also...

"Supercell reserves the right to determine what conduct it considers to be in violation of the rules of use or otherwise outside the intent or spirit of these Terms of Service or the Service itself. Supercell reserves the right to take action as a result, which may include terminating your Account and prohibiting you from using the Service."

So...Tut Tut...dont' do it!

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Firstly, the word "designed" in the first sentence isn't applicable if the player is just using an oversight or intentional bug designed by the developer. So in terms of non-hacking offenses that doesn't really apply.

Also, wasn't the elixir "glitch" something that would fall under that category? They knew about that for a long time, basically everybody was using it, but no bans or resets. My point is, all of their bans or suspensions are arbitrary and capricious but at the end of the day they call the shots because they made the game, which makes sense.

Don't exploit bugs. If you encounter something weird, report it and we'll investigate.

There was an elixir bug in the beginning that was exploited by many.
Nobody got banned for that so far I know.

But did you find one and are your scared to use it?
Tell me, tell me, tell me.

I would imagine it depended upon the scope and severity. For example, the elixir glitch was used by many, so I don't think anyone was banned. But if, say you had an alt account that you found you could revenge cycle indefinitely to get unlimited trophies, I'm sure Supercell wouldn't be too pleased with you.

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Originally Posted by noobody

My Q isn't whether developers are in their right to defend interest and if we should expect it. That is normal.

My Q is whether a long or eternal ban (not just frozen or confiscated items) is justified when (1) a user exploits a bug that was not created by the user but found in the regular process of use, AND/OR when (2) the user did not "explicitly" (by a click of some sort or a clear process to read the terms in signing up) agree to the game's terms.

The question is of extreme degree of punishment and the process of agreement + the justification of ban and likely no refund for the exploit of a bug by fault of the developer and where the fruit of the exploit is likely confiscable or resettable (w/ exceptions of course).

So the norm is that it is not excessive to get eternally banned when user does that w/ no clear agreement to such terms?

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I wasn't intimating that developers are within their right I was stating that common sense should prevail, and that it is normal for developers to levy a penalty against the offending parties based on the degree and severity of the offense.
So I am saying it is normal for there to be repercussions for abusing an exploit. I am also saying the severity of those repercussions will vary based on the malicious nature of the transgressions.

It is not the normal for an extreme degree of punishment to occur, without cause...

If that is punishment being handed out to someone, you can be rest assured they being pushing the boundary of how much they can get away with for some time.

And further to that most companies will likely go to reasonable degrees even after a Permanent ban to try and reconcile the situation.

In the case of iTunes products, you have a blanket terms and conditions "agree" button, which has to be used before any software can be installed on the device.

Lastly, if you use something outside of the terms and conditions and stipulated correct use of the product, in no situation, virtual or real, would you be entitled to refund, so that's not really a harsh punishment on the scale of things, and should be expected and is perfectly normal.

I think if you use exploitable bugs then you should be banned for good. I don't see the point in cheating, If you're gonna cheat then why play the game?

I'd rather work hard at the game and feel the merit of doing it on sheer determination and grinding. I think the only game I ever cheated on was sonic the hedgehog..the ol 'up-down-left-right-A+Start' :D

If the player has use money on the game? Isn´t it illegal to bann them for somthing that not is shown in the rules?

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Originally Posted by IHazCandy4You

If the player has use money on the game? Isn´t it illegal to bann them for somthing that not is shown in the rules?

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No, because the developer still maintains rights to the code and is leasing the use of it you based on the terms of use which they are entitled to change should they wish to.

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Originally Posted by IHazCandy4You

If the player has use money on the game? Isn´t it illegal to bann them for somthing that not is shown in the rules?

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nope...plus how is it not in the rules?

If I found something that gives me 1k gold for free...and I did that multiple times...I am exploiting it.

The elixir glitch was similar to this, and ppl were indeed exploiting it (before my time unfortunately), but as it was so wide-spread, ppl weren't punished because it was a shared exploit..so no-one could gain more than others could from it. So it was fixed and Supercell decided not to take any further action on it...they could of course have banned everyone, but then there wouldn't have been much of a game left.

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Originally Posted by xaboetje

There was an elixir bug in the beginning that was exploited by many.
Nobody got banned for that so far I know.

But did you find one and are your scared to use it?
Tell me, tell me, tell me.

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I wanna know too...
What other reason would someone enquire so extensively about this topic, unless they found a bug/were booted because of exploiting a bug.

The OP can't be just asking all this for fun.. 😳

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Originally Posted by KAHN

I wanna know too...
What other reason would someone enquire so extensively about this topic, unless they found a bug/were booted because of exploiting a bug.

The OP can't be just asking all this for fun.. 😳

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This post had been categorized as the following:

Flame Bait

Obviously youve found a bug/glitch to expliot, Pm me it please ;)

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Originally Posted by Sandalhat

This post had been categorized as the following:

Flame Bait

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I noticed that the more people write, the more people flame them...
No more books from me, I'm sticking to the two sentence replies from now on....😛

But then they kind of took away somthing you have paid for?

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Originally Posted by noobody

I've recently had an argument with a friend about what the "norm" is regarding banning/being banned for exploiting a bug in a game that the user found by normally using the game.

Q1: I understand that you can momentarily freeze the account of such a user and confiscate anything obtained through the bug or reset the account but is it "normal" to ban them forever for exploiting a found (non-created) bug?

Q2: Does this happen for CoC? What happens if we realize that their is a bug that we can advantage from in Coc and use it until we are caught and temporarily frozen the account. Are we doomed to be banned?

I feel like game bugs are largely a responsibility of the game creator. And that you can temporarily freeze and confiscate accordingly but not ban them forever just because a user exploited a bug repeatedly or more than a certain #.

What do you think is the norm? In general, and from the standard of CoC?

:confused:

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I will give you two links to read.

http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...ercell-support

and

http://www.supercell.net/terms-of-service/


Supercell has banned some accounts in the past for various violations, and for various lengths.

One of the worst was getting a free level 30 barb king, but that took significant exploits in the game files, and has been fixed. If only the offenders were smart, they would have exploited him up to level 15 or so, that way it would have been believable. I never heard if anyone was banned for it, but it certainly seems ban-worthy.

"Supercell reserves the right to determine what conduct it considers to be in violation of the rules of use or otherwise outside the intent or spirit of these Terms of Service or the Service itself. Supercell reserves the right to take action as a result, which may include terminating your Account and prohibiting you from using the
Service."

You can be banned from any game for doing anything... 😰

We just have to be trusting in the creators of the game to be fair.

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Originally Posted by noobody

My Q isn't whether developers are in their right to defend interest and if we should expect it. That is normal.

My Q is whether a long or eternal ban (not just frozen or confiscated items) is justified when (1) a user exploits a bug that was not created by the user but found in the regular process of use, AND/OR when (2) the user did not "explicitly" (by a click of some sort or a clear process to read the terms in signing up) agree to the game's terms.

The question is of extreme degree of punishment and the process of agreement + the justification of ban and likely no refund for the exploit of a bug by fault of the developer and where the fruit of the exploit is likely confiscable or resettable (w/ exceptions of course).

So the norm is that it is not excessive to get eternally banned when user does that w/ no clear agreement to such terms?

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I don't know if there really is a norm. Every company and every exploit is different. However, I'd say they are well within their rights to do so and it would be justified if the exploit is severe enough.

All bugs are created by developers so I'm not sure what you're getting at by "not created by the user".

If I personally found an exploit and used it, I certainly wouldn't expect a refund if I were caught and banned.

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Originally Posted by Jared[Supercell]

Don't exploit bugs. If you encounter something weird, report it and we'll investigate.

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Give us some incentive to report these bugs and we will gladly help you out. :D

Free gems maybe? :D

Thank you all for the reply. I myself deal with legalities in my job and we had the argument because some trials haven't considered browser wrap agreements as not always bullet proof to justify certain punishments. And platform agreements often don't include game specific terms, something often left to each game to properly enforce and notify. This is a young industry, and legalities are developing along the net industry. Things aren't so set in stone, I think it's worth considering and reconsidering with time.

Quick clarifications:
-No, I haven't found any bugs in CoC.
-And regarding bugs not made by developers, I mean holes made by hackers or crackers or whatever they want to call themselves.
-I think the game is allowed to defend itself but eternal ban may be excessive for a bug exploit while I understand their feeling.
-Again, no I have not found any bug in the game, and don't intend to cheat, while I think I don't even have the ability to cheat even if I wished to.

Thank u Supercell for a great game, and for all the players in the forum for making the community lively and respectful.