Valkryes ai improvement

Just to note. These aren't nerfs, they will just work in a different way.

Lightning spells will be 2 capacity but do more damage than they ever did.

Supercell halved the damage of the lightning but made it one capacity.

This change will increase the lightning spells to 2 capacity but will increase the damage from the old 2 capacity damage by 1.25 times. Example; if a lightning spell used to do 540 damage at 2 capacity, it will now do 700 damage. This may not sound like much but let's take a look at a 2 capacity level 9 lightning spell 1120 damage. Times this by 1.25 to get 1400. See, now this will get the th13s an incentive to use lightning spells more as they can receive lightning spells in their clan castle because they have 2 capacity. I think the numbers are practical.

This feature in by no means kills the lightning spell so make sure to ignore the th8 threads that I posted.

Also, another thing is that instead of the lightning spell behaving like a zap spell, it will be single target but being able to target 2 buildings. What I mean by that is the clash royale functionality but instead of zapping 3 things it zaps 2 things and each zap is that same level of power. (1400 at level 9 for each bolt)

So you're effectively nerfing it by reducing its flexibility and reducing the maximum damage it can do. Why does this nerf need to happen? You explained what but never why. I certainly don't see a why.

You can say it isn't a nerf all you want but it is. Your increasing the capacity by 1, making it single target but yet you say 2 buildings (don't understand that) where currently I can do 4. Th13 can currently carry 2 lightning spells and lower th can carry 1 also. These are many changes that you say are not changes.

Just like chased asked, why? That is the biggest question.

it's not a nerf. Ok to not "nerf" it let's do 1.5 times damage * the old 2 capacity instead. Now it's not a nerf. I don't see why my previous idea counted as a nerf. I'm not reducing it's flexibility since the maximum damage is higher. I'm doing this to give benefits to th13s.

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Originally Posted by Tollboothwillie

You can say it isn't a nerf all you want but it is. Your increasing the capacity by 1, making it single target but yet you say 2 buildings (don't understand that) where currently I can do 4. Th13 can currently carry 2 lightning spells and lower th can carry 1 also. These are many changes that you say are not changes.

Just like chased asked, why? That is the biggest question.

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Actually instead of the single target, let's retain the effects like they are now. I've answered your second question above. You may not like the answer, but it's an answer.

Back in October (ref: https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...ll-Patch-Notes) they explicitly increased the AD HP so that: "Level 8 Air Defense (TH10) hit points have been increased by 10 HP, making them more resistant to Lightning Spell strikes." Expect then that any L-Spell buff regarding increased target damage would be equalized with AD health buffs to compensate, at a minimum.

It was one of those rare occasions were they told us exactly why they buffed, they simply do not want ADs easily knocked out with L-spells.

which suggestion are you talking about, the one in my thread post or the one in my reply to Chase?
if we do 400 * 2 = 800 *1.25 that makes 1000 damage. The level 8 air defence won't just get knocked with a lightning spell since the guy is going to have to use an earthquake or 2 to destroy it. Also, if the earthquake doesn't work then they'll have to use an extra lightning spell. This is a thread to benefit th13s with lightning spells but make them less useful for th11s and below.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

it's not a nerf. Ok to not "nerf" it let's do 1.5 times damage * the old 2 capacity instead. Now it's not a nerf. I don't see why my previous idea counted as a nerf. I'm not reducing it's flexibility since the maximum damage is higher. I'm doing this to give benefits to th13s.

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You reduced the flexibility because the value you must get now must be worth 2 spells instead of 1. Currently I use it to soften defenses for rc ability but this change wouldn't give the same value. Next, the damage before the nerf to scatters let us destroy it with 5+quake now its 6 and after its still 6 so no improvement. The flexibility is now lowered since I can't get the value I want from a 1 spell slot.

Damage: max damage from 1 spell is currently 560×5=2800. I'd say average is still 560×4 = 2240. You want us to be limited to 1400 per spell space. This is a damage nerf.

Even if we retain the effects and do more damage, you still limit how it gets used. You really need to have a why you are in favor of a nerf. I dont see lightning as op nor is it used widely at th 13 where you want to boost its use. So what is the point of nerfing it?

Why should they be less useful at TH11 and below? I think it's time you moved on and upgraded your base. The game has moved on, you should too. Below TH11 is barely even relevant right now and with TH14 it's about to become even less relevant. Why keep beating a dead horse?

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

it's not a nerf. Ok to not "nerf" it let's do 1.5 times damage * the old 2 capacity instead. Now it's not a nerf. I don't see why my previous idea counted as a nerf. I'm not reducing it's flexibility since the maximum damage is higher. I'm doing this to give benefits to th13s.

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TH13s are already enjoying the current lightning spell

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

Actually instead of the single target, let's retain the effects like they are now. I've answered your second question above. You may not like the answer, but it's an answer.

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FYI

In computer gaming, a nerf is a change to a game that downgrades the power, effectiveness or influence of a particular game element in the attempt to achieve balance. The term originated as a reference to the NERF brand of child toys, which are made to minimize possible damage.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk...ible%20damage.

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Originally Posted by SumoSloth

Why should they be less useful at TH11 and below? I think it's time you moved on and upgraded your base. The game has moved on, you should too. Below TH11 is barely even relevant right now and with TH14 it's about to become even less relevant. Why keep beating a dead horse?

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th11 is not too far from the top. I don't think the th8 thread reason applies in this case because I used th11 which counts as a "high town hall" level. FYI. I have a th10 base and things are being upgraded as we speak.

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Originally Posted by darpan2704coc

TH13s are already enjoying the current lightning spell

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A bit of a buff for th13s is not too bad since th13 is quite difficult so this new lightning spell will be able to be used on more bases.

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Originally Posted by Tollboothwillie

FYI

In computer gaming, a nerf is a change to a game that downgrades the power, effectiveness or influence of a particular game element in the attempt to achieve balance. The term originated as a reference to the NERF brand of child toys, which are made to minimize possible damage.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk...ible%20damage.

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That's true. But I am not downgrading the power. I am upgrading it. I am just storing it in a bigger pot so I can't spread the damage around. This bigger pot more damage (than two single jars of lightning combined). If you want we can keep killing the "irrelevant" town hall levels. Or we could boost th13s but not so much for th11s or any weaker. The effectiveness will increase (if we make the lightning spell do 1.375* damage than 1.25* damage like the thread an old 2 capacity one). I think If a 2 capacity lightning spell for level 9 one shots a level 11 air defence that should be perfectly balanced.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

Just to note. These aren't nerfs, they will just work in a different way.

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Of course they are nerfs.

No matter how much you say that, the fact it will be less useful makes it a nerf.

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Lightning spells will be 2 capacity but do more damage than they ever did.

Supercell halved the damage of the lightning but made it one capacity.

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Indeed. For good reason.

They wanted to introduce flexibility and make it more readily useful.

You are taking that away.

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This change will increase the lightning spells to 2 capacity but will increase the damage from the old 2 capacity damage by 1.25 times. Example; if a lightning spell used to do 540 damage at 2 capacity, it will now do 700 damage. This may not sound like much but let's take a look at a 2 capacity level 9 lightning spell 1120 damage. Times this by 1.25 to get 1400. See, now this will get the th13s an incentive to use lightning spells more as they can receive lightning spells in their clan castle because they have 2 capacity. I think the numbers are practical.

This feature in by no means kills the lightning spell so make sure to ignore the th8 threads that I posted.

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Why would we ignore those, since this is just another backdoor way of nerfing it for those levels.

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Also, another thing is that instead of the lightning spell behaving like a zap spell, it will be single target but being able to target 2 buildings. What I mean by that is the clash royale functionality but instead of zapping 3 things it zaps 2 things and each zap is that same level of power. (1400 at level 9 for each bolt)

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And another needless nerf.

You have still not remotely given any reason why these changes would be a good thing (I read the rest of the thread, and you said "I'm doing this to give benefits to th13s." which it certainly won't do.)

Sorry, but it is quite clear why you are really asking for this change, and that is to nerf it for lower level Town Halls, by making it impossible for them to carry in CC.

So you want to change it back to two spaces specifically in order to negate the main reason it was changed to one space in the first place.

I can't see SC considering it.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

This feature in by no means kills the lightning spell so make sure to ignore the th8 threads that I posted

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That’s impossible to ignore when your suggested change would affect my th8. I use lightning spells almost exclusively on that mini with an all archer army. Lightning spells are more versatile and predictable (i.e. better) now than they ever were before.

Currently my TH8 single space lighting spell does 270 damage.
Your suggestion, to put it back to a 2 slot, makes it 540 again and with the .25 increase it will do 675 (not 700)
Surprise surprise, suddenly at TH8 you can only take out one AD again.... (still true at 700 damage also).
Clearly this is still about TH8.... time to move on.

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Originally Posted by vansimon

Currently my TH8 single space lighting spell does 270 damage.
Your suggestion, to put it back to a 2 slot, makes it 540 again and with the .25 increase it will do 675 (not 700)
Surprise surprise, suddenly at TH8 you can only take out one AD again.... (still true at 700 damage also).
Clearly this is still about TH8.... time to move on.

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Just to take this math and go farther with it. It will block th 10s and 11s from being able to take out an ad with less than 4 spell space nerfing the drag zap strats at these ths.

The only interaction his idea actually makes lightning better against is th 13 inferno towers that I have found. All other defenses are either unchanged or require more spell space to take out.

Let's not forget that there are strategies that use the lightning to take out cc troops, or take out skeleton traps while softening defenses.

The OP has a poor understanding of what a buff is if he makes a spell worse in almost every way.

Finally, if he were to want to raise the damage so its actually more effective and worth while at th 13, supercell could accomplish the same buff by undoing the nerf they did to it by losing the lvl 2 scatter hit points and readjusting the xbow hp so its back in the same threshold. Let's not forget undo the 10 hp buff to the th 10 ads.

Really undoing these changes would make it more usable like the op says he wants without making it less usable. But since sc clearly did these as nerfs to lightning, this seems unlikely.

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Originally Posted by chased123456

Just to take this math and go farther with it. It will block th 10s and 11s from being able to take out an ad with less than 4 spell space nerfing the drag zap strats at these ths.

The only interaction his idea actually makes lightning better against is th 13 inferno towers that I have found. All other defenses are either unchanged or require more spell space to take out.

Let's not forget that there are strategies that use the lightning to take out cc troops, or take out skeleton traps while softening defenses.

The OP has a poor understanding of what a buff is if he makes a spell worse in almost every way.

Finally, if he were to want to raise the damage so its actually more effective and worth while at th 13, supercell could accomplish the same buff by undoing the nerf they did to it by losing the lvl 2 scatter hit points and readjusting the xbow hp so its back in the same threshold. Let's not forget undo the 10 hp buff to the th 10 ads.

Really undoing these changes would make it more usable like the op says he wants without making it less usable. But since sc clearly did these as nerfs to lightning, this seems unlikely.

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True, but we all know the point of this is TH8 and reducing the Lightning spell effect at this TH...

A lightning spell if properly placed can damage 9 buildings (isn't it?) if they are closely placed. What kind of a rework is it that, we can only damage 2x buildings now?
And I know why you suggested this. So that a TH8 cannot get 2 Air defences. So ultimaltely you are still stuck on your "make TH8 great again".
And as chased replied, zaps are not always to completely take out some buildings. 1 zap+1 eq and a max rc ability can completely take out an area with 2 spell space. Your idea will make it 3 housing space. And what about buildings that currently need a odd number of lightning spells? How would you divide them in 2 housing space.

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Originally Posted by Mayankkumar

A lightning spell if properly placed can damage 9 buildings (isn't it?) if they are closely placed. What kind of a rework is it that, we can only damage 2x buildings now?
And I know why you suggested this. So that a TH8 cannot get 2 Air defences. So ultimaltely you are still stuck on your "make TH8 great again".
And as chased replied, zaps are not always to completely take out some buildings. 1 zap+1 eq and a max rc ability can completely take out an area with 2 spell space. Your idea will make it 3 housing space. And what about buildings that currently need a odd number of lightning spells? How would you divide them in 2 housing space.

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Actually I said in a post afterwards let's ignore the bit where the lightning spell only takes out 2 buildings so the functionality will be the same.

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Originally Posted by Ajax

Of course they are nerfs.

No matter how much you say that, the fact it will be less useful makes it a nerf.


Indeed. For good reason.

They wanted to introduce flexibility and make it more readily useful.

You are taking that away.



Why would we ignore those, since this is just another backdoor way of nerfing it for those levels.



And another needless nerf.

You have still not remotely given any reason why these changes would be a good thing (I read the rest of the thread, and you said "I'm doing this to give benefits to th13s." which it certainly won't do.)

Sorry, but it is quite clear why you are really asking for this change, and that is to nerf it for lower level Town Halls, by making it impossible for them to carry in CC.

So you want to change it back to two spaces specifically in order to negate the main reason it was changed to one space in the first place.

I can't see SC considering it.

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Let's keep the functionality of lightnings the same shall we? The reason why this benefits th13s is that the th13 can only receive one lightning spell from one clan mate. Unless they are in a high level xp clan. So this change will benefit th13s to avoid having to receive 2 lightning spells from different clan mates. The flexibility will be the same since it uses 3 lightning spells now it take out a lvl 15 air defence so use one in the new updated lightning spell with an eq with be the same spell capacity space so I'm not killing anything.

@ Mayannkumar You would probably use a 2 capacity lightning spell with one earthquake; there odd number problem solved.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

You would probably use a 2 capacity lightning spell with one earthquake; there odd number problem solved.

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If it takes 3 lightning+quake the 1.25x damage doesn't cover the damage of the 3rd so now it requires 4+quake. You could read my replies to understand this as I've said it every response and you keep ignoring it.

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Originally Posted by chased123456

Just to take this math and go farther with it. It will block th 10s and 11s from being able to take out an ad with less than 4 spell space nerfing the drag zap strats at these ths.

The only interaction his idea actually makes lightning better against is th 13 inferno towers that I have found. All other defenses are either unchanged or require more spell space to take out.

Let's not forget that there are strategies that use the lightning to take out cc troops, or take out skeleton traps while softening defenses.

The OP has a poor understanding of what a buff is if he makes a spell worse in almost every way.

Finally, if he were to want to raise the damage so its actually more effective and worth while at th 13, supercell could accomplish the same buff by undoing the nerf they did to it by losing the lvl 2 scatter hit points and readjusting the xbow hp so its back in the same threshold. Let's not forget undo the 10 hp buff to the th 10 ads.

Really undoing these changes would make it more usable like the op says he wants without making it less usable. But since sc clearly did these as nerfs to lightning, this seems unlikely.

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It's a buff for th13s and 12s. But a nerf for the th11s and anyone with 1 spell capacity in their clan castle. Call it a nerf all you want but use a level 9 lightning spell (based on my original post) and use one earthquake to take out an air defence at level 11. There we go the flexibility is the same. You also have to take into account that th13s can only receive one spell (unless they are in a high level clan) so this negates the problem of 2 people having to donate a max lightning spell.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

It's a buff for th13s and 12s. But a nerf for the th11s and anyone with 1 spell capacity in their clan castle. Call it a nerf all you want but use a level 9 lightning spell (based on my original post) and use one earthquake to take out an air defence at level 11. There we go the flexibility is the same. You also have to take into account that th13s can only receive one spell (unless they are in a high level clan) so this negates the problem of 2 people having to donate a max lightning spell.

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Clearly you are just trolling at this point. I pointed out how the damage only improves 1 interaction despite nerfing many others at th 8-13 and you still insist its a buff? Can you explain how needing 3 spell space to do what 2 use to do is a buff?

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

Let's keep the functionality of lightnings the same shall we? The reason why this benefits th13s is that the th13 can only receive one lightning spell from one clan mate. Unless they are in a high level xp clan. So this change will benefit th13s to make them do more damage with one bolt. The flexibility will be the same since it uses 3 lightning spells now it take out a lvl 15 air defence so use one in the new updated lightning spell with an eq with be the same so I'm not killing anything.

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Right.

So it will not really benefit any measurable number of TH13s, while making it worse for many others, and for all TH levels below 11.

There are not many TH13s who will be in level 7 or lower clans, and it isn't that much of an issue even for those, to need two clanmates to donate if they want two lightning spells in CC.

And the loss in flexibility will outweigh that "benefit" for even those few Th13s who would see it as a benefit.

You are really stretching to describe this change as a benefit for anybody. It is very obvious that the main reason you want this change is to be a nerf for TH levels 8-10.

And that nerf HUGELY outweighs any absolutely minimal advantage it gives to TH11-13.

It's easier to just upgrade your th past the th10 point, than it is to cry nerf.
At th13 hardly anyone uses lit spells on me. Freeze and rage are all I ever seen to get.

If anything ADs need a buff, among others.

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Originally Posted by Thesuperbeast

It's easier to just upgrade your th past the th10 point, than it is to cry nerf.
At th13 hardly anyone uses lit spells on me. Freeze and rage are all I ever seen to get.

If anything ADs need a buff, among others.

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I already have a th10 base.

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Originally Posted by chased123456

Clearly you are just trolling at this point. I pointed out how the damage only improves 1 interaction despite nerfing many others at th 8-13 and you still insist its a buff? Can you explain how needing 3 spell space to do what 2 use to do is a buff?

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It's one important interaction but in actual fact I mean to give the lightning a stronger effect but make it less useful because the ONLY thing I see on ALL my accounts are dragons with lightning spells. No joke EVERY guy that has attacked my th10 base has never 3 starred and only used dragons. At this point lightning spells are killing all other spells and gives very little reason to upgrade valkryes which go well with heal spells. So giving the lightning spells less of a usage at the low ones and improving one interaction at the high level encourages people to use a wider variety of troops. BTW you need 3 spell space now with level 9 lightnings taking down a level 11 air defence. I am just making it so you don't require 2 people to donate lightning spells.

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Originally Posted by Ajax

Right.

So it will not really benefit any measurable number of TH13s, while making it worse for many others, and for all TH levels below 11.

There are not many TH13s who will be in level 7 or lower clans, and it isn't that much of an issue even for those, to need two clanmates to donate if they want two lightning spells in CC.

And the loss in flexibility will outweigh that "benefit" for even those few Th13s who would see it as a benefit.

You are really stretching to describe this change as a benefit for anybody. It is very obvious that the main reason you want this change is to be a nerf for TH levels 8-10.

And that nerf HUGELY outweighs any absolutely minimal advantage it gives to TH11-13.

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I've been told that no one cares about th10 or below. So wouldn't a minor benefit to a th13 be fine since supercell is looking to improve higher town hall levels and don't care at all about the low ones. Also, there is a problem with the variety of attack since lightning spells are too brain dead.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

It's one important interaction but in actual fact I mean to give the lightning a stronger effect but make it less useful because the ONLY thing I see on ALL my accounts are dragons with lightning spells. No joke EVERY guy that has attacked my th10 base has never 3 starred and only used dragons. At this point lightning spells are killing all other spells and gives very little reason to upgrade valkryes which go well with heal spells. So giving the lightning spells less of a usage at the low ones and improving one interaction at the high level encourages people to use a wider variety of troops. BTW you need 3 spell space now with level 9 lightnings taking down a level 11 air defence. I am just making it so you don't require 2 people to donate lightning spells.

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You just don't get it do you? You think th 13s are using lightning to take out ads? No, thats pretty rare except among spam armies. Its common uses at th 13 is for the eagle if there's value around it or to soften defenses. Occasionally you will use it to take out some buildings like infernoes or scatters if you can get a lot of value.

If you soften buildings, often times 1 lightning + quake is enough to let the rc destroy the area with the ability. You will also see them used to take out groups of cc troops like mass HH. This interaction will be entirely removed because the value will not exist as you need 2 or 3 spell space to do what 1 or 2 did respectively.

Most interactions will remain unchanged at th 13 so the spell will be used less because its not as flexible. Everyone here can tell you dont actually care about th 13 or even understand lightning at th 13. We all know this thread is about th 8 -10. These ths don't need to be nerfed. Lightning hasn't killed all other spells at th 10, in fact the misconception that drags are all powerful makes so many other attacks much stronger at th 10 than dragons are. I cant remember the last ground skelly trap I've seen while using miners. Let people use lightnings and you defend against it. Use ground and win. Move on to th 11 and say good bye to drag spam being that effective. No need to nerf these ths when a problem doesn't exist.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

I've been told that no one cares about th10 or below. So wouldn't a minor benefit to a th13 be fine since supercell is looking to improve higher town hall levels and don't care at all about the low ones. Also, there is a problem with the variety of attack since lightning spells are too brain dead.

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While a minor benefit to TH13 might not be a bad thing, it is when it comes with significant disbenefit to other TH levels.

And this isn't enough to even class as minor. In fact for a large majority of Th13s it is a nerf rather than a benefit.

Please stop this transparent effort to nerf air at TH8. You aren't fooling anybody, and your arguments about other Town Halls are exceedingly thin, to say the least.

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Originally Posted by Ajax

While a minor benefit to TH13 might not be a bad thing, it is when it comes with significant disbenefit to other TH levels.

And this isn't enough to even class as minor. In fact for a large majority of Th13s it is a nerf rather than a benefit.

Please stop this transparent effort to nerf air at TH8. You aren't fooling anybody, and your arguments about other Town Halls are exceedingly thin, to say the least.

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Ok you win. Th13 is always stronger than th8 so I think I should've known. Why make keep defensive buildings weak though? Also, why th8 as an example? I see dragons and lightning done on my th10 war base every time and no one 3 stars. It's not about fooling people. It's about getting other people to see my point of view.

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Originally Posted by chased123456

You just don't get it do you? You think th 13s are using lightning to take out ads? No, thats pretty rare except among spam armies. Its common uses at th 13 is for the eagle if there's value around it or to soften defenses. Occasionally you will use it to take out some buildings like infernoes or scatters if you can get a lot of value.

If you soften buildings, often times 1 lightning + quake is enough to let the rc destroy the area with the ability. You will also see them used to take out groups of cc troops like mass HH. This interaction will be entirely removed because the value will not exist as you need 2 or 3 spell space to do what 1 or 2 did respectively.

Most interactions will remain unchanged at th 13 so the spell will be used less because its not as flexible. Everyone here can tell you dont actually care about th 13 or even understand lightning at th 13. We all know this thread is about th 8 -10. These ths don't need to be nerfed. Lightning hasn't killed all other spells at th 10, in fact the misconception that drags are all powerful makes so many other attacks much stronger at th 10 than dragons are. I cant remember the last ground skelly trap I've seen while using miners. Let people use lightnings and you defend against it. Use ground and win. Move on to th 11 and say good bye to drag spam being that effective. No need to nerf these ths when a problem doesn't exist.

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No I think that you don't understand that I never see anything but dragons and lightning. At this point there is no need to try defend against miners when no one uses them. The misunderstanding is that I'm in a war with a bunch of noobs so everyone thinks that lightning and drags will be enough to 3 star. Do you know how many times it has worked? Never. Why sacrifice the fun of the game for 3 town hall levels when the rest of them are important tools to build up skills? At least the heal spells and rage are 2 capacity. Let's make them 1 capacity as well since lightning is now 1 capacity, those should be too.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

No I think that you don't understand that I never see anything but dragons and lightning. At this point there is no need to try defend against miners when no one uses them. The misunderstanding is that I'm in a war with a bunch of noobs so everyone thinks that lightning and drags will be enough to 3 star. Do you know how many times it has worked? Never. Why sacrifice the fun of the game for 3 town hall levels when the rest of them are important tools to build up skills? At least the heal spells and rage are 2 capacity. Let's make them 1 capacity as well since lightning is now 1 capacity, those should be too.

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None of the th 10s in my clan use dragons. I also bet the people in your clan enjoy using them even though they don't work. So why ruin the game for your clanmates just because you aren't having fun. It seems this problem can be solved by joining a clan that suits your play style instead of asking supercell to kill the fun for your clan.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

Ok you win. Th13 is always stronger than th8 so I think I should've known. Why make keep defensive buildings weak though? Also, why th8 as an example? I see dragons and lightning done on my th10 war base every time and no one 3 stars. It's not about fooling people. It's about getting other people to see my point of view.

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Your point of view is the game should be pro difficulty at all ths and kill fun for casual players by nerfing the option to spam even if its unsuccessful because you dislike people playing the way you dont want to play. It shows through in every thread. Everyone can see your point of view because its obvious.

Based on your many make _____ harder threads, you like gatekeeping. No one who doesn't play your way shouldn't get to enjoy the game. These lower ths don't need to be hard. I not to long ago wrote a post about how lower ths need to have more event content, I can now say these ths are very irrelevant since I'm pretty far as a th 6 on a 10 day old account. I can't imagine th 7-9 taking very long for active players and my th 10 is played very passively (wars and cg only) and is half maxed in just 5 months so it would be very fast if I were active on it.

When th 10 was maxed, the times you like to be stuck in, a th that took a month or 2 was th 6 and spam was popular at that th because its not enough time to give any skills beyond adjusting to the new defense. It makes sense spam is strong at th 10 since its so short these days.

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Originally Posted by chased123456

None of the th 10s in my clan use dragons. I also bet the people in your clan enjoy using them even though they don't work. So why ruin the game for your clanmates just because you aren't having fun. It seems this problem can be solved by joining a clan that suits your play style instead of asking supercell to kill the fun for your clan.

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I can't find a clan that plays to my playstyle. It's my opponents I'm talking about that use dragons on my base

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Originally Posted by chased123456

Your point of view is the game should be pro difficulty at all ths and kill fun for casual players by nerfing the option to spam even if its unsuccessful because you dislike people playing the way you dont want to play. It shows through in every thread. Everyone can see your point of view because its obvious.

Based on your many make _____ harder threads, you like gatekeeping. No one who doesn't play your way shouldn't get to enjoy the game. These lower ths don't need to be hard. I not to long ago wrote a post about how lower ths need to have more event content, I can now say these ths are very irrelevant since I'm pretty far as a th 6 on a 10 day old account. I can't imagine th 7-9 taking very long for active players and my th 10 is played very passively (wars and cg only) and is half maxed in just 5 months so it would be very fast if I were active on it.

When th 10 was maxed, the times you like to be stuck in, a th that took a month or 2 was th 6 and spam was popular at that th because its not enough time to give any skills beyond adjusting to the new defense. It makes sense spam is strong at th 10 since its so short these days.

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I would do anything to be stuck in 2015 when the airsweeper just came out. The problem is that I don't understand why attack is much stronger than defence. I feel cheated since air defences cost so much gold but one dragon costs a small amount of elixir and can solo an unprotected air defence which feels wrong. This happens at every level.
BTW what does "No one who doesn't get to play you way shouldn't enjoy the game" mean? Are you inferring that people who have ideas like mind around the game should not enjoy the game at all. IMO there shouldn't be extremities in difficulty.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

I would do anything to be stuck in 2015 when the airsweeper just came out. The problem is that I don't understand why attack is much stronger than defence. I feel cheated since air defences cost so much gold but one dragon costs a small amount of elixir and can solo an unprotected air defence which feels wrong. This happens at every level.
BTW what does "No one who doesn't get to play you way shouldn't enjoy the game" mean? Are you inferring that people who have ideas like mind around the game should not enjoy the game at all. IMO there shouldn't be extremities in difficulty.

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Theres many cases where troops can solo buildings. Thats normal. Its odd you haven't noticed this. A yeti can solo some defenses even when defended. The larger the camp space the more value you get out of it.

The comment you are referred to is the way you talk. All your ideas and the reason for your ideas is always to hurt people that don't play the way you like. You want everyone to be limited to playing at a higher difficulty and casuals get excluded. The reason few agree with you is because we see the need for causals and hardcores to co-exist and that means spam has to be an option even if its not successful.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

I can't find a clan that plays to my playstyle. It's my opponents I'm talking about that use dragons on my base

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So your opponents are failing and you want to make the game harder for them? Doesn't make sense. Really sounds like you want people to quit.

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Originally Posted by chased123456

Theres many cases where troops can solo buildings. Thats normal. Its odd you haven't noticed this. A yeti can solo some defenses even when defended. The larger the camp space the more value you get out of it.

The comment you are referred to is the way you talk. All your ideas and the reason for your ideas is always to hurt people that don't play the way you like. You want everyone to be limited to playing at a higher difficulty and casuals get excluded. The reason few agree with you is because we see the need for causals and hardcores to co-exist and that means spam has to be an option even if its not successful.

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I have noticed that's why I mentioned it and that's why all defences are a rip off in ratio to training troops. SPAM isn't an option but shouldn't work every single time by a good player. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. At this state; You never lose, you always win. (I say win with a pinch of salt since getting 1 stars is pointless).

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Originally Posted by chased123456

So your opponents are failing and you want to make the game harder for them? Doesn't make sense. Really sounds like you want people to quit.

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No I want supercell to encourage them to play better since they believe that 2 stars is good when it isn't (unless it is 80% or above). Another thing is that they don't have access to siege machines and neither does my th10.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

I have noticed that's why I mentioned it and that's why all defences are a rip off in ratio to training troops. SPAM isn't an option but shouldn't work every single time by a good player. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. At this state; You never lose, you always win. (I say win with a pinch of salt since getting 1 stars is pointless).

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

No I want supercell to encourage them to play better since they believe that 2 stars is good when it isn't (unless it is 80% or above). Another thing is that they don't have access to siege machines and neither does my th10.

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This is very confusing. In one you never lose in the next quote you never win. Which is it? Again if they are having fun why do they need to be forced to change. Why do they need to play the way you want them to? Why don't you want people to have fun playing the way they like?

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

I have noticed that's why I mentioned it and that's why all defences are a rip off in ratio to training troops. SPAM isn't an option but shouldn't work every single time by a good player. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. At this state; You never lose, you always win. (I say win with a pinch of salt since getting 1 stars is pointless).

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Why are you bringing up the ability of troops to solo defenses? If anything a high housing space troop should be able to solo any defense, because basebuilding is not about watching your defenses solo entire hordes of troops. Each individual defense stands no chance against a troop, but together they are able to defend an entire army.

Seems you are in a wrong clan. You should definitely change your clan.
If others use dragons, let them use.
If you don't like dragons, don't use them.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

No I want supercell to encourage them to play better since they believe that 2 stars is good when it isn't (unless it is 80% or above). Another thing is that they don't have access to siege machines and neither does my th10.

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I don't think you understand that everyone is different. (clearly by this thread) Not everyone can play strategy games but they try them because of friends, family, or colleagues. Because they are not very good they go with an easy strategy ie drag/edrag spam. You cannot force them into understanding something they already have difficulties understanding, they also might not care at all or might not have the time available that is needed in learning better attacks.

So maybe you should stop trying to alienate an entire player base because you don't understand the reason they play the way they do.

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Originally Posted by chased123456

This is very confusing. In one you never lose in the next quote you never win. Which is it? Again if they are having fun why do they need to be forced to change. Why do they need to play the way you want them to? Why don't you want people to have fun playing the way they like?

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I do but the change balance change they have made to lightning spells has really affected everything else. The question is why are heal spells and rage spells not 1 capacity?

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Originally Posted by Ostentatious

Why are you bringing up the ability of troops to solo defenses? If anything a high housing space troop should be able to solo any defense, because basebuilding is not about watching your defenses solo entire hordes of troops. Each individual defense stands no chance against a troop, but together they are able to defend an entire army.

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I am saying this because imagine 10 dragons vs 1 air defence and 1 dragon can easily solo 1 air defence then that is something ridiculous. I am at the state of laughing my head off because the defender and the attacker should both have 50 50 chance but instead it's more like 80 % chance to the attacker and 20 to the defender. Let's also mention the CC balloons that go with it and the king. I think it is hilarious how defences that cost millions of gold gets completely wrecked by a troop that cost elixir in the 10 000s. It's a bit excessive on the offensive side.

Wasn't it like this before?

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Originally Posted by Tollboothwillie

I don't think you understand that everyone is different. (clearly by this thread) Not everyone can play strategy games but they try them because of friends, family, or colleagues. Because they are not very good they go with an easy strategy ie drag/edrag spam. You cannot force them into understanding something they already have difficulties understanding, they also might not care at all or might not have the time available that is needed in learning better attacks.

So maybe you should stop trying to alienate an entire player base because you don't understand the reason they play the way they do.

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Ok. Why don't I propose a "hard mode" of COC where COC goes back to 2015 and where the air sweeper first came out so all the "irrelevant" town hall levels will become of challenge again.

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Originally Posted by ziya645

Wasn't it like this before?

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No because before the lightning spell did double the damage than a single capacity lightning. at 2 capacity, now it does 1.25* damage the old 2 capacity lightning spell.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

I do but the change balance change they have made to lightning spells has really affected everything else. The question is why are heal spells and rage spells not 1 capacity?

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Rage and heal do much more than lightning does. As you pointed out, 1 tanking troop can take out a solo defense. Keeping troops alive or increasing dps does more for an attack than the single lightning spell does. It would require huge nerfs to each of these spells to move them to 1 spell slot. Also it takes many lightnings to take out most key defenses. On well designed bases, they get minimum lightning value and you no longer have the spell capacity to clear the base. Thats the trade.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

No because before the lightning spell did double the damage than a single capacity lightning. at 2 capacity, now it does 1.25* damage the old 2 capacity lightning spell.

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Can you explain to everyone how 400x2 =660? Thats the current damage vs the old damage of lvl 7. Also how do you propose they reverse the damage of spell lvls that didn't have old lvls when they didn't just half the damage like you suggest?

Also it would be more fair to say only about 4 hits would connect on the target so it would be more realistic that the old max lightning did 440 than 660 but since 660 is the total damage ill let us mess with that number.

Edit: ran math based on reduction values of previous lvls, max at 2 space would be around 960 and with the 1.25x it would be about 1125 which is 5 more damage than the current 2 value so 0 interactions would change for the better. Its a full nerf.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

Ok. Why don't I propose a "hard mode" of COC where COC goes back to 2015 and where the air sweeper first came out so all the "irrelevant" town hall levels will become of challenge again.

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Because the game has moved forward and so should you. You have been proposing 2015 ideas.

This game would not exist if it had stayed stagnant for the past 6 years.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

Ok. Why don't I propose a "hard mode" of COC where COC goes back to 2015 and where the air sweeper first came out so all the "irrelevant" town hall levels will become of challenge again.

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Because it will be a waste of effort since it was already recently discussed with a response from Darian: https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...-clans-classic.

I think because of all the changes you want made, you should make your own game. Then, disgruntled players can go to your forums and complain about it how it’s a knockoff of all the bad things removed from Clash of Clans.

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Originally Posted by toofinedog

Because it will be a waste of effort since it was already recently discussed with a response from Darian: https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...-clans-classic.

I think because of all the changes you want made, you should make your own game. Then, disgruntled players can go to your forums and complain about it how it’s a knockoff of all the bad things removed from Clash of Clans.

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Bad things like ...?

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Originally Posted by Tollboothwillie

Because the game has moved forward and so should you. You have been proposing 2015 ideas.

This game would not exist if it had stayed stagnant for the past 6 years.

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Well it would if the new town hall levels had no effect on the old ones. But nostalgia hits me hard with the famous kyoukai base.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

Bad things like ...?

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1)loot was significantly harder to get with i believe 90%hidden behind shields
2) training times where much longer
3) trolls could donate what ever
4) building times were much longer
5) no magic items
6) gems were more rare
7) archer towers could miss shots
8) mail and description for clans were significantly more limited
9) de sniping
10) th sniping

Do you need more?

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

Bad things like ...?

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You are free to read the terrible ideas at the link I put in my reply, but I’m not going to do a compilation of all your ideas to

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Originally Posted by Mayankkumar

”make TH8 great again".

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XDI need to go back and rep that one.

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Originally Posted by chased123456

1)loot was significantly harder to get with i believe 90%hidden behind shields
2) training times where much longer
3) trolls could donate what ever
4) building times were much longer
5) no magic items
6) gems were more rare
7) archer towers could miss shots
8) mail and description for clans were significantly more limited
9) de sniping
10) th sniping

Do you need more?

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no. This sounds correct. I guess I have a biased view because I am blinded by nostalgia. I have made a thread in the base building section about the idea of a good th8 base and 1 that is impossible to defeat with dragons so hopefully when I look at those bases then I'll stop worrying. But I need to defend at least 1 dragon attack at th8 or otherwise it is completely broken.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

Ok you win. Th13 is always stronger than th8 so I think I should've known. Why make keep defensive buildings weak though? Also, why th8 as an example? I see dragons and lightning done on my th10 war base every time and no one 3 stars. It's not about fooling people. It's about getting other people to see my point of view.

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I say TH8 because that is the one you have been on here asking for nerfs to air on several times before.

And you won't get people to see your point of view when you are trying to suggest this is a buff for TH13, but all of us with Th13s know it isn't.

You keep saying this is not a nerf, and is of benefit to Th13s, when by far the largest effect is a nerf to TH8-10. When you are saying one thing, when the clear main effect is something different, it appears you are trying to fool us.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

I would do anything to be stuck in 2015 when the airsweeper just came out. The problem is that I don't understand why attack is much stronger than defence.

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It always has been, and always will be.

Attack is the active part of the game, and most people enjoy the active playing. It can be nice to see your base defend, but once you have designed it, that is entirely passive.

For the game to be successful, it has to be the case that the majority of attacks will be at least somewhat successful.

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I feel cheated since air defences cost so much gold but one dragon costs a small amount of elixir and can solo an unprotected air defence which feels wrong. This happens at every level.
BTW what does "No one who doesn't get to play you way shouldn't enjoy the game" mean? Are you inferring that people who have ideas like mind around the game should not enjoy the game at all. IMO there shouldn't be extremities in difficulty.

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he isn't inferring that at all. But what he is saying is that your changes would lead to that.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

I do but the change balance change they have made to lightning spells has really affected everything else. The question is why are heal spells and rage spells not 1 capacity?

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That "question" has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with this thread. It is a separate question which could reasonably be asked, though given the way they work it doesn't surprise me at all that they have been left at 2 spaces.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

I am saying this because imagine 10 dragons vs 1 air defence and 1 dragon can easily solo 1 air defence then that is something ridiculous. I am at the state of laughing my head off because the defender and the attacker should both have 50 50 chance but instead it's more like 80 % chance to the attacker and 20 to the defender. Let's also mention the CC balloons that go with it and the king. I think it is hilarious how defences that cost millions of gold gets completely wrecked by a troop that cost elixir in the 10 000s. It's a bit excessive on the offensive side.

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So basically you find it hilarious and are "laughing your head off" because they haven't done things which the rest of us know would destroy the game in no time flat.

It is never going to be more defence oriented, and never should be, because that would turn people away from the game in absolute droves.

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Originally Posted by Ajax

It is never going to be more defence oriented, and never should be, because that would turn people away from the game in absolute droves.

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I agree. I don't remember the last time I had watched my defence replays. Also I prefer people 3 starring me if I can 3 star them. If everyone fails, I don't think I will be playing the game anymore.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

no. This sounds correct. I guess I have a biased view because I am blinded by nostalgia. I have made a thread in the base building section about the idea of a good th8 base and 1 that is impossible to defeat with dragons so hopefully when I look at those bases then I'll stop worrying. But I need to defend at least 1 dragon attack at th8 or otherwise it is completely broken.

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If by "defend" you mean have opponents get zero stars, then all Town Halls are "completely broken", since any time a decent army fails to get a star, the attacker has made mistakes. At any TH level. Which does happen of course. I get 2-3 zero star attacks per week in Legends, across my 168 attacks (3 accounts, so 24 attacks per day).

If you mean them not getting three, then yes a good TH8 defence should have a reasonable chance of preventing three against dragons. Though being particularly good against dragons would tend to make it vulnerable to hogs :)

Wow. Been reading through this whole thread, and it just smells a bit off. OP how can you propose some changes for a TH which you are not at? Or am I missing something here? I read you have a TH10 and that's it.

I have accounts from TH4 up to an almost maxed 13 (missing some walls), and I can categorically tell you - as have most others here - that as a TH8 player, this change will absolutely ruin my ability to run my current strategy. You are effectively making my spell count limited, so I can use l-spells less effectively, and most crucially your proposed idea would cut off donated l-spells for any Clan Castle level with less than 2 housing space.

Sorry, but Supercell made this change to 1 housing space to IMPROVE usage of l-spells. The added stun feature is the icing on the cake. Your proposal would absolutely destroy l-spells' usability at all on lower TH, and reduce its usability even further for higher TH.

Biiiiig no from me (not that it means much but hey).

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Originally Posted by Ajax

If by "defend" you mean have opponents get zero stars, then all Town Halls are "completely broken", since any time a decent army fails to get a star, the attacker has made mistakes. At any TH level. Which does happen of course. I get 2-3 zero star attacks per week in Legends, across my 168 attacks (3 accounts, so 24 attacks per day).

If you mean them not getting three, then yes a good TH8 defence should have a reasonable chance of preventing three against dragons. Though being particularly good against dragons would tend to make it vulnerable to hogs :)

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This is the problem though. Can any th8 make a base that is resistant to hogs and dragons (no because dragons are too spammy). Where did you get the idea that defend I meant one stars? It doesn't say that anywhere. By defend I meant not giving away 3 stars. But if lightning spells just have 10 less damage than they do now at level 5 specifically then there wouldn't a problem.

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Originally Posted by Cupholder

Wow. Been reading through this whole thread, and it just smells a bit off. OP how can you propose some changes for a TH which you are not at? Or am I missing something here? I read you have a TH10 and that's it.

I have accounts from TH4 up to an almost maxed 13 (missing some walls), and I can categorically tell you - as have most others here - that as a TH8 player, this change will absolutely ruin my ability to run my current strategy. You are effectively making my spell count limited, so I can use l-spells less effectively, and most crucially your proposed idea would cut off donated l-spells for any Clan Castle level with less than 2 housing space.

Sorry, but Supercell made this change to 1 housing space to IMPROVE usage of l-spells. The added stun feature is the icing on the cake. Your proposal would absolutely destroy l-spells' usability at all on lower TH, and reduce its usability even further for higher TH.

Biiiiig no from me (not that it means much but hey).

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L-spells are too easy to use. It doesn't give the defender a chance to protect the air defences. This is the same problem as zapping DE but with no focus from anyone.

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Originally Posted by Ajax

So basically you find it hilarious and are "laughing your head off" because they haven't done things which the rest of us know would destroy the game in no time flat.

It is never going to be more defence oriented, and never should be, because that would turn people away from the game in absolute droves.

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Not really. What I'm saying is that an air defence should be == to a dragon so if there is a 1 to 1 fight, there would be a tie between the air defence and the dragon.

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Originally Posted by Mayankkumar

I agree. I don't remember the last time I had watched my defence replays. Also I prefer people 3 starring me if I can 3 star them. If everyone fails, I don't think I will be playing the game anymore.

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I enjoy watching defence win (fending off 3 stars) but it is hard to do that unless their wifi disconnects mid-match.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

L-spells are too easy to use. It doesn't give the defender a chance to protect the air defences. This is the same problem as zapping DE but with no focus from anyone.

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Again, this is a problem in lower town halls. Try using zap attacks involving zapping air defences like zap dragon in higher town halls or even town hall 9, there is no guarantee you will even get a star if you don't study the base and just spam the dragons. Hence, they are very easy to use at town hall 8, like you have mentioned before, but at higher levels, they do require skill.

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Originally Posted by blazeaxel

Again, this is a problem in lower town halls. Try using zap attacks involving zapping air defences like zap dragon in higher town halls or even town hall 9, there is no guarantee you will even get a star if you don't study the base and just spam the dragons. Hence, they are very easy to use at town hall 8, like you have mentioned before, but at higher levels, they do require skill.

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I wish it required skill at th8 too though. I use dragons for farming at th10 and that it should be as challenging at th8 as th10 because they are in the "middle ground" category.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

I wish it required skill at th8 too though. I use dragons for farming at th10 and that it should be as challenging at th8 as th10 because they are in the "middle ground" category.

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Th8 is supposed to by easy Def4. It prepares players for the real clash. Clash of clans wants you to(not said by them, but they don't bring updates frequently to lower town halls)upgrade to th9 or th10, and not perma-max a lower town hall. Like you are for th8, there maybe a person at th3 who likes th3 and often complains about barch being too powerful at that level.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

This is the problem though. Can any th8 make a base that is resistant to hogs and dragons (no because dragons are too spammy). Where did you get the idea that defend I meant one stars? It doesn't say that anywhere. By defend I meant not giving away 3 stars. But if lightning spells just have 10 less damage than they do now at level 5 specifically then there wouldn't a problem.

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Honestly the problem to me has never been lightning, its the higher lvl loons. Being able to use max loons as max grows stronger over time makes th 8 easier. I have a th 8 base that I consider pretty easy for dragons but drag zap has never 3*ed unless the attacker has lvl 7+ cc loons.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

I wish it required skill at th8 too though. I use dragons for farming at th10 and that it should be as challenging at th8 as th10 because they are in the "middle ground" category.

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We've been through this, TH8 is not "in the middle ground territory". Considering it you can get through TH6 in a week and most upgrades at th13 individually take upwards of two weeks, Th8 is so much closer to the beginning of the game than the middle that's it's not even worth discussing.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

Not really. What I'm saying is that an air defence should be == to a dragon so if there is a 1 to 1 fight, the air defence would win by 1 hit remaining.

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The only defences in the game that will beat a heavy attacking troop in a 1:1 fight would be a single inferno tower, and maybe an xbow.

At TH8, you have Pekka available. There is no TH8 ground defence that could beat a pekka 1:1. At TH9+, xbows might if the pekka had to start at the extreme range of the xbow so would have several seconds of being shot at before being able to hit back.

So why should a single air defence be so powerful it can do that to a heavy air troop? It is actually pretty close if the dragon starts out of range. A TH8 Ad takes 10 seconds to kill a max TH8 dragon. The dragon takes 6 seconds to kill the AD, but only has a range of 3 while the AD has a range of 10. So the dragon will have about 3 seconds of being shot at before it comes in range to shoot itself.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

I wish it required skill at th8 too though. I use dragons for farming at th10 and that it should be as challenging at th8 as th10 because they are in the "middle ground" category.

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TH8 has not been in the "middle ground" category for over 3 years now. Not since TH12 came out.

Even TH10 is only just in that category now, TH9 definitely isn't any more.

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Originally Posted by Ajax

The only defences in the game that will beat a heavy attacking troop in a 1:1 fight would be a single inferno tower, and maybe an xbow.

At TH8, you have Pekka available. There is no TH8 ground defence that could beat a pekka 1:1. At TH9+, xbows might if the pekka had to start at the extreme range of the xbow so would have several seconds of being shot at before being able to hit back.

So why should a single air defence be so powerful it can do that to a heavy air troop? It is actually pretty close if the dragon starts out of range. A TH8 Ad takes 10 seconds to kill a max TH8 dragon. The dragon takes 6 seconds to kill the AD, but only has a range of 3 while the AD has a range of 10. So the dragon will have about 3 seconds of being shot at before it comes in range to shoot itself.

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Most of the time 2 dragons will be on an air defence so the air defence will have no chance.

In 2016 when valkryes were first buffed, they would move to the buildings then clump together and destroy the next one. Now they seperate off as they go deeper into the base. I think they should go back to how they were in 2016 because the reason they were strong was because people built bases that didn't work against the "new" improved valkryes. Now the valkryes easily die and are not used very often for 3 star attack strategies. In 2016 valkryes would follow each other, huddling in a group which is what they should do instead of purposely trying to get themselves killed.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

In 2016 when valkryes were first buffed, they would move to the buildings then clump together and destroy the next one. Now they seperate off as they go deeper into the base. I think they should go back to how they were in 2016 because the reason they were strong was because people built bases that didn't work against the "new" improved valkryes. Now the valkryes easily die and are not used very often for 3 star attack strategies. In 2016 valkryes would follow each other, huddling in a group which is what they should do instead of purposely trying to get themselves killed.

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First off, I see valks used quite often in three star strats at TH13. They are effective at helping to set a funnel, I have seen them used as TH kill troops and various other ways. They are rarely used in large groups but neither are super wallbreakers. They are good troops for a specific objective.

If wallbreakers are not used in large groups, why do you believe that valks need a change to make them more effective in large groups? Is this just a preference or is there some objective in mind? Is there a specific TH level you are concerned with?

Cool, another rollback to improvements suggestion.

Do Valkyries even unlock at th8?

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Originally Posted by toofinedog

Cool, another rollback to improvements suggestion.

Do Valkyries even unlock at th8?

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Whoa. This has crossed the line. I'm not even partially refering to th8 as I have repeated many times that I think offence is too powerful at th8. I am thinking of buffing general behaviours by valkryes tending to stick together INSTEAD of splitting off.

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Originally Posted by Tosti111

First off, I see valks used quite often in three star strats at TH13. They are effective at helping to set a funnel, I have seen them used as TH kill troops and various other ways. They are rarely used in large groups but neither are super wallbreakers. They are good troops for a specific objective.

If wallbreakers are not used in large groups, why do you believe that valks need a change to make them more effective in large groups? Is this just a preference or is there some objective in mind? Is there a specific TH level you are concerned with?

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No because valkryes shouldn't commit suicide but they are since they are splitting off. Super wall breakers should die because they are programmed to commit suicide but with a clear objective in their heads.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

No because valkryes shouldn't commit suicide but they are since they are splitting off. Super wall breakers should die because they are programmed to commit suicide but with a clear objective in their heads.

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You missed the point entirely. Some troops are intended to be used in large groups and others are not. Valks are quite effective today, why do you think they need to be made to work better in large groups?

As for splitting up, all troops split depending on their proximity to the nearest target.

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Originally Posted by Tosti111

You missed the point entirely. Some troops are intended to be used in large groups and others are not. Valks are quite effective today, why do you think they need to be made to work better in large groups?

As for splitting up, all troops split depending on their proximity to the nearest target.

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Why do troops split up with the ai anyway? If I put 10 dragons in the same spot they shouldn't split up and go to the same building. This is why people get angry at this game sometimes because the troops just split off. They should all just stay huddled in the same group and die together. They need to work in better groups because that was how they were intended to be programmed

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

Why do troops split up with the ai anyway? If I put 10 dragons in the same spot they shouldn't split up and go to the same building. This is why people get angry at this game sometimes because the troops just split off. They should all just stay huddled in the same group and die together. They need to work in better groups because that was how they were intended to be programmed

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Troops may appear to but do not occupy the same space. They are all slightly spaced apart, so if a group of them, be they dragons “8 v 1ing” the last air defense or 20 valks pirouetting a builder hut, their next target is decided by what is closest to each unit based on targeting protocols, not the space occupied by the target they are currently hitting.

Troops split off because they go to the nearest building they are set to destroy. If they are not dropped in exactly the same spot (Virtually impossible to do) at the exact same time (also impossible to do in many situations). The relative closest buildings may be in different spots causing them to split. Look up troop AI to get a more in depth explanation. Note that this was done after a change to the rule of 5 which was later reverted back to the rule of 3.

To get troops to stay together it requires funneling them into the path you want to go. Someone posted a great video by Judo Sloth in another thread which covers funneling techniques, I suggest you watch it as it explains a lot.

On one hand, you hate mass dragons. On the other, you do mass valkyries.

Interesting!

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

Why do troops split up with the ai anyway? If I put 10 dragons in the same spot they shouldn't split up and go to the same building. This is why people get angry at this game sometimes because the troops just split off. They should all just stay huddled in the same group and die together. They need to work in better groups because that was how they were intended to be programmed

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Were they indeed?

Do you have a link to the document from Supercell telling us "how they were intended to be programmed"?

I have never seen anything from them suggesting they wanted troops to clump up. Sometimes it is advantageous for them to do so, often it isn't.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

Not really. What I'm saying is that an air defence should be == to a dragon so if there is a 1 to 1 fight, there would be a tie between the air defence and the dragon.

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So if there are 10 dragons, we should give a TH8 12 air defences (2 being destroyed by lightning). Then it will be a tie for sure!

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

Most of the time 2 dragons will be on an air defence so the air defence will have no chance.

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Most of the time people put AD near other defenses that can assist.

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Originally Posted by Mayankkumar

So if there are 10 dragons, we should give a TH8 12 air defences (2 being destroyed by lightning). Then it will be a tie for sure!

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No. I never implied this. reducing damage of lightning has nothing to do with adding 12 air defences.

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Originally Posted by Tollboothwillie

Most of the time people put AD near other defenses that can assist.

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That adds to the OPness of lightning spell.

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Originally Posted by chased123456

Honestly the problem to me has never been lightning, its the higher lvl loons. Being able to use max loons as max grows stronger over time makes th 8 easier. I have a th 8 base that I consider pretty easy for dragons but drag zap has never 3*ed unless the attacker has lvl 7+ cc loons.

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Yes the balloons are also even more of a problem. But the lightnings dude ... Imagine if you could any take out one air defence (that's too weak though...)

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Originally Posted by blazeaxel

Th8 is supposed to by easy Def4. It prepares players for the real clash. Clash of clans wants you to(not said by them, but they don't bring updates frequently to lower town halls)upgrade to th9 or th10, and not perma-max a lower town hall. Like you are for th8, there maybe a person at th3 who likes th3 and often complains about barch being too powerful at that level.

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I really hate to admit that fact. Th8 is the most fun th8. I wish supercell would care.

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Originally Posted by Ajax

Were they indeed?

Do you have a link to the document from Supercell telling us "how they were intended to be programmed"?

I have never seen anything from them suggesting they wanted troops to clump up. Sometimes it is advantageous for them to do so, often it isn't.

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That's kind of the point. It's kind of scientifically impossible in real life to do the same thing and expect different results. This game suggests otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Mayankkumar

On one hand, you hate mass dragons. On the other, you do mass valkyries.

Interesting!

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That's because dragons negate walls. So dragons should die. Valkryes should rise.

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Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r

I really hate to admit that fact. Th8 is the most fun th8. I wish supercell would care.

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Maybe I'm missing something, because if you think that Th8 is the best TH, why are you constantly trying to change it?