Totems

Gemstones and totem poles

*I got Inspiration by MiddleC*

The totem pole (defense):
The totem pole is a new defense for th13. The totem pole gives special boosts to buildings in its range. When the totem pole gets destroyed, the effect will be gone. The range would be the same as the GW's range in def statue mode. You can upgrade the Totem Pole to lvl 3. Every upgrade, the effect increases. In the beginning, you already have all of the totems. No unlocking needed.

You can choose between different totems to place in the totem pole

Totem 1: Poisionous Towers
When this totem is activated, all of the defense buildings in its range will cause a poison effect when hitting enemy troops. The poison effect lasts for 2 seconds after getting hit. The effects can't stack. This kind of Poison doesn't deal damage.
Lvl 1: 15% speed decrease, 20% attack rate decrease.
Lvl 2: 19% speed decrease, 24% attack rate decrease.
Lvl 3: 22% speed decrease, 27% attack rate decrease.

Totem 2: Deadly Precision
When this totem is activated, all of the defense buildings in its range will deal X% more damage per second, also for damage dealing traps.
Lvl 1: +10% dps
Lvl 2: +12% dps
Lvl 3: +15% dps

Totem 3: Reviving danger
When this totem is activated, all of the defense buildings in its range will revive when destroyed. It will be the same as the cannon cart. The burning building has the same amount of HP as the Building in normal conditions, but it won't take long to burn it down.
Lvl 1: 2.5 seconds
Lvl 2: 3 seconds
Lvl 3: 4 seconds


The Warden's Gemstone:
As you all know, the warden holds a Tome and a staff. The Tome causes the invincible effect, but the staff? There are new gemstones to put on the staff for TH13! When the GW has these new gemstone, there will be a special boost in the GW's effect range (no need to trigger ability). When the GW dies, the effect will be gone. You can evolve these gemstones to something better. This happens when you upgrade the town hall to max level, whatever defense is standing on the roof😁.(Gemstone I -> evolving -> Gemstone II)

The new gemstones (Found in TH13's basement by the builders):

Gemstone of Ressurection I:
When the GW holds this tome, every troop that dies in its range comes back as skeletons. (1/4 of their housing space). So a golem would change into ~8 skellys. If a Hero dies, they will change into skellys without shield , 1/4 amount of their level.

Gemstone of Ressurection II:
When the GW holds this tome, every troop that dies in its range comes back as skellys (1/4 of their housing space). So a golem would change into ~8 skellys with shield. If a Hero dies, they will change into skellys with shield, 1/4 of their level.

Gemstone of Protection I:
When the GW holds this tome, the damage the surrounding troops' damage receive will be reduced by 14%.

Gemstone of Protection II:
When the GW holds this tome, the surrounding troops' damage receive will be reduced by 19% and they will be twice as heavy for spring traps.

Gemstone of Destruction I:
When the GW holds this tome, the damage of troops in its range will improve by 12%.

Gemstone of Destruction II:
When the GW holds this time, the damage of the troops in its range will improve by 16% and their attack speed +8 movement speed.

The gemstones need energy to do its effect. They need to be charged before the battle. There could be some kind of building where you can charge them for...gold/elixer/DE/maybe gems (Id rather DE)? You can unlock them one by one (by upgrading that building). The last one to be unlocked should be a bit stronger. But the stronger one takes longer to recharge and is more expensive.

Sharing the Gemstones:
The gemstones are not something you can train. You have them or you don't have them, like the Heroes. So, donating them would be impossible, but sharing them, lending them, that's possible.

The sharing system would work like this: Player 1 is a th13 player with his gemstones. Player 2 is a th12 who can lend player 1's gemstones. P1 can give ONE of his tomes to P2 for just ONE ATTACK. After that attack, P1 gets his gemstone back. P1 is always able to take the gemstone back, whether P2 has attacked or not. After that, P2 can ask again to lend one of P1's gemstones for another attack. And so on.
NOTE: When P1 has lend one of his gemstones to P2, P1 CAN'T use that gemstone until P2 has attacked or P1 has taken the gemstone back. There is a 15 minutes cooldown for asking to lend a tome.

Every donation has an XP reward, sharing gemstones should also have an XP reward. You should get 10 XP for every time you share a gemstone.


What do you guys think?




The Story of the 5 builders.

Builder 1: Milcy (MiddleC)
Builder 2: Bob (Bobkoch)
Builder 3: Munitor (Munitor)
Builder 4: Jason (That Little Trophy, Jason is not my real name��)
Builder 5: Darian (Darian[Supercell])

Once upon a time, there were 4 builders sitting in the town hall level 12. They were talking about the construction plan to upgrade the Eagle artillery. They were already doing this for 4 hours! "Time for a break guys", said Jason. But at that moment, Darian came in and started speaking: "Town Hall 12 is great! We should be proud of our creation! But we need to move on, move on to the next generation, the next TOWN HALL!
Let's move on!". The other builders: "Let's move on!". So after that being said, Darian invited them for a drink in his own builders hut, to make the plans for the new town hall.

After hours of talking and sketching, they finally made the official construction plan for TH13. Jason immediately stood up to take his hammer and start the upgrade. "It will take 16 days, so we need to hurry".

They were complaining about the roof. Munitor said: "How are we going to put a ******* weapon ontop of a town hall!?" Bob answered: "we did the same thing when we were building TH12! We can do this!"

15 days, 23 hours and 59 minutes later...
"It's time to use the clash magic", Said Milcy. He took his hammer and said the magic words to complete the upgrade.

"Wow! It looks better than I thought! Let's get in." Milcy was the first to open the door. "I can tell you, it's beautiful." Bob's first words were, "That will be my chair!" When they were all inside, Milcy said, "Guys, I think we have a basement." And he went downstairs. He Found a bunch of old gemstones, Hidden under a thick layer of dust. Milcy said, "They look the same as mr. G. Warden's gemstone on his staff!" He was right. They decided to give them to the GW. Bob said, "You should try these gemstones, GW."

And then the story began...

I am thinking of another way to get those totems so it's not like the magic items. So please don't say: "It should be a potion". Becouse that ruins the whole totem idea😁

This is a fairly interesting idea that I'd like more community energy invested in developing.

Personally I'd want them to not be donatable and I'd want those numbers to come down across the board.

They should be borderline novelties, but with the current numbers they'd almost become meta that you'd have to have them because otherwise balancing the defenses against the potential offensive capabilites would be impossible.

Ok a new concept. Thumbs up for getting new ideas frequently.👍

Pros:
•Can help with attacks on higher THs
•New things make the game fun.

Suggestions:
• Lower the stats for raider's heart and armored army.
•Devise feasible ways to obtain these.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BloodyIrishman

This is a fairly interesting idea that I'd like more community energy invested in developing.

Personally I'd want them to not be donatable and I'd want those numbers to come down across the board.

They should be borderline novelties, but with the current numbers they'd almost become meta that you'd have to have them because otherwise balancing the defenses against the potential offensive capabilites would be impossible.

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So you suggest a small nerf?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MayhemWarLord

Ok a new concept. Thumbs up for getting new ideas frequently.👍

Pros:
•Can help with attacks on higher THs
•New things make the game fun.

Suggestions:
• Lower the stats for raider's heart and armored army.
•Devise feasible ways to obtain these.

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I added the Totem House to obtain them and I did the needed nerfs. Thanks for the suggestions.

Questions awaiting..

1) The totem house will gather % from both villages or just the main?

2) Will the % accumulated ever expire or stay forever until spent?

I personally think these Totems must be some weekly or monthly event rewards which I think is important.

Also the totem pole should be automatically deployed if equipped and effective for 1 attack each.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MayhemWarLord

Questions awaiting..

1) The totem house will gather % from both villages or just the main?

2) Will the % accumulated ever expire or stay forever until spent?

I personally think these Totems must be some weekly or monthly event rewards which I think is important.

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1) It will only work for main village becouse the training time of the BB troops is very low. But you can use the totems at BB if you want.
2) It won't expire.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by That Little Trophy

1) It will only work for main village becouse the training time of the BB troops is very low. But you can use the totems at BB if you want.
2) It won't expire.

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•If it only work for main village then it's use should be restricted to the main village only.

•I should be time limited thing, that should expire. Let say every week you have to attack and on reaching specified destruction % then you can claim some totem rewards.

Or

There can be mission by which you can earn desired totems.

Interesting.

Additional ideas:
It could be a trainable item with a very long training time (hours), to limit overuse and to incentivize gemming them.
It could cost a new type of resource obtainable from some sort of new collector.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Munitor

Interesting.

Additional ideas:
It could be a trainable item with a very long training time (hours), to limit overuse and to incentivize gemming them.
It could cost a new type of resource obtainable from some sort of new collector.

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You want to train totems?
According to this idea,

Totem aren't like troops they are similar to potions but with some basic differences.

If they are trainable then people may abuse them in every attack.

Making them limitedly available will be better than letting players train their own totems.

What we essentially agree on, is that there should be a limited access so that the average frequency of obtaining a totem is lower than your attack frequency.

There's a number of ways that could be achieved, for example:

Only obtainable through daily trades, cg, medals and events

Or

Trainable with a very very long training time in combination with a limited (<3) training queue

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Munitor

What we essentially agree on, is that there should be a limited access so that the average frequency of obtaining a totem is lower than your attack frequency.

There's a number of ways that could be achieved, for example:

Only obtainable through daily trades, cg, medals and events

Or

Trainable with a very very long training time in combination with a limited (<3) training queue

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If you do 25 3 stars, you can buy 5 Legendary totems (in the totem house). I think that this is the only fair way to get the totems.

Yea somewhere around 1 in 5 attacks with a totem sounds reasonable, I agree with that.

However, the idea of obtaining and/or saving up for totems by attacks has more downsides than the alternatives:

-You're basically forcing players who don't care about regular raids for whatever reason into doing those. Think of the players who only really play for cw/cwl.
-Obtaining through raiding isn't really intuitive or as much in line with the other ways you obtain potions, spells or troops.
-It'd be slightly more difficult if not impossible to plan for logging on during battle day, request and do your cw/cwl attacks.
-It introduces a guarantee to obtain totems where instead it could be a system with no guarantee unless you actively do something to acquire them.

Also if the system is set to average 1 totem pr 5 attacks the bonuses should reflect this, so that the average bonus would be neglibile, but the bonus in one attack be significant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Munitor

Yea somewhere around 1 in 5 attacks with a totem sounds reasonable, I agree with that.

However, the idea of obtaining and/or saving up for totems by attacks has more downsides than the alternatives:

-You're basically forcing players who don't care about regular raids for whatever reason into doing those. Think of the players who only really play for cw/cwl.
-Obtaining through raiding isn't really intuitive or as much in line with the other ways you obtain potions, spells or troops.
-It'd be slightly more difficult if not impossible to plan for logging on during battle day, request and do your cw/cwl attacks.

Also if the system is set to average 1 totem pr 5 attacks the bonuses should reflect this, so that the average bonus would be neglibile, but the bonus in one attack be significant.

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Don't forget that it's 1 totem for every 5 3stars, not just attacks. But yes, I see your Point.

About that "forcing": In cg, you also need to X% to complete your assignment. It's not forcing, you have the choice...

Yea to iterate I really like the idea of temporary battle buffs wether it being through a totem or war banner or w/e.

But you should really reconsider the way it should be obtained.

Lets do some napkin math here to put things in perspective:

Say there's 50 mio coc players and about 1/4 of those are in a war at any given time. Of that amount let's say 10% care about maxing their attacks. Say those players have to do between 5-10 attacks to farm for their totems.

That'll produce between 6,25 and 12,5 mio normal attacks every 47 hours.
Those attacks or at least quite a large amount of them will take out available farmable bases across the upper trophy ranges by increasing their shield uptime. This would lead to an increase in the search time for people who farm and eventually lead to the dreaded clouds.

There has to be an alternative way of getting totems honestly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Munitor

Yea to iterate I really like the idea of temporary battle buffs wether it being through a totem or war banner or w/e.

But you should really reconsider the way it should be obtained.

Lets do some napkin math here to put things in perspective:

Say there's 50 mio coc players and about 1/4 of those are in a war at any given time. Of that amount let's say 10% care about maxing their attacks. Say those players have to do between 5-10 attacks to farm for their totems.

That'll produce between 6,25 and 12,5 mio normal attacks every 47 hours.
Those attacks or at least quite a large amount of them will take out available farmable bases across the upper trophy ranges by increasing their shield uptime. This would lead to an increase in the search time for people who farm and eventually lead to the dreaded clouds.

There has to be an alternative way of getting totems honestly.

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What if you can't use the totems in war? Then the hardcore war players can focus on war without needing those totems and the farmers or cuppers can do their thing.

I am thinking of a complete new weekly system right now. I ll add it soon.

I added:
- the weekly system
- Totem 5: Rages Reinforcement

I honestly think the system should come with no limitations on what sort of attack you want to use it for.

Furthermore I think you should consider targeting the suggestion at the future TH13, so that it's only obtainable there but donatable down to TH12. This would be somewhat in line with additions such as siege engines.

A set timer for how often you can get a totem is however a very inflexible system. It should be a system involving player action and decision.

I just had a look at your weekly system, and it still doesn't solve the core of the issue I raised.

Again let's look at the consequence of somebody who only participates in cw (which would be a player type who'd have the most impact on farmable bases shield uptime):

Let's say he does 3.5x2 clan war attacks every week. He needs to do 3500% destruction every week to maximize his cw attack capability (2500x(7/5)) Let's say for convenience that he averages 70% destruction across all attack types.

That comes out to about 6.1 more regular attacks every day that he wouldn't have done otherwise.
That doesn't sound like a lot, but if there are 1.25 mio like him, like I suggested, that means somewhere around 7.6 mio attacks every day that wouldn't have happened without this system.

This is a non-trivial amount with non-trivial consequences (I.e. clouds) for regular Joe farmer and Zack the pusher.

Very interesting this took a lot of thought and I enjoyed reading it.

totems should not be usable in war attacks

a totem pack should be "randomized" with 1 rare, 4 common totems (may have duplicates) per pack with a 10% chance *one* of those totems is converted to legendary

add some defensive totems, good for one defense:

miserly keep: loot is reduced by x% (-20%, -30%, -40%)

daunting defenses: defensive towers do x% extra damage (6%, 9%, 12%)

cloned castle: clan castle troops are cloned as they come out. clone duration varies (6 sec, 8 sec, 10 sec)

terrible traps: traps get +1, +2, +3 unit space (spring traps and skelly traps) while bombs and mines do x% extra damage (10%, 20%, 30%)

camp mayhem: one *randomly selected* camp becomes like a clan castle with the same activation radius. all troops held in that camp become cc reinforcements when triggered (legendary only)

now you have 5 attack totems and 5 defense totems and your weekly pack only has 5 totems in it. so you should get a mix instead of all offense all the time

how to acquire totems:
all players who complete the daily star bonus 5x in the course of one game week get a totem pack upon logging in for the first time in the next game week. any unused totems expire at the end of each game week (a defensive totem activated but not triggered by defending remains active until triggered)

only one totem can be active during any given attack/defense. once a defensive totem is activated, it remains activated until the base is attacked

Very unbalanced, since you don't know who will attack you and how will you attack them?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HonoraryGoblin

totems should not be usable in war attacks

a totem pack should be "randomized" with 1 rare, 4 common totems (may have duplicates) per pack with a 10% chance *one* of those totems is converted to legendary

add some defensive totems, good for one defense:

miserly keep: loot is reduced by x% (-20%, -30%, -40%)

daunting defenses: defensive towers do x% extra damage (6%, 9%, 12%)

cloned castle: clan castle troops are cloned as they come out. clone duration varies (6 sec, 8 sec, 10 sec)

terrible traps: traps get +1, +2, +3 unit space (spring traps and skelly traps) while bombs and mines do x% extra damage (10%, 20%, 30%)

camp mayhem: one *randomly selected* camp becomes like a clan castle with the same activation radius. all troops held in that camp become cc reinforcements when triggered (legendary only)

now you have 5 attack totems and 5 defense totems and your weekly pack only has 5 totems in it. so you should get a mix instead of all offense all the time

how to acquire totems:
all players who complete the daily star bonus 5x in the course of one game week get a totem pack upon logging in for the first time in the next game week. any unused totems expire at the end of each game week (a defensive totem activated but not triggered by defending remains active until triggered)

only one totem can be active during any given attack/defense. once a defensive totem is activated, it remains activated until the base is attacked

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About the randomized pack and luck system:
I don't think that CoC should have a luck based system. At least, I wouldn't like it becouse the %'s value wouldn't be fixed. Every type of loot in CoC has a fixed value. That's just what I think about it🙃.
About the defensive totems:
It would completely destroy the Point of having offensive totems.

Oh boy I'm getting the popcorn out..

No but seriously, the ops suggestion seems to be the more well thought out and balanced of these two. Also the thread has been quite constructive up until now.

Back on track:

I think it would be better to not have artificial limits and rng totem distribution, so I'm with op here. No the system to obtain should be one of player choice, where you know what you get and where some resource or time cost limits the amount you can get.

Also they should totally be usable in cw/cwl. I think the general attack buff idea is very much tailored towards war usage.

About defensive totems yea, it might work if the bonuses are reasonable. But there probably shouldn't be a +% defense damage, that would be too obvious of a meta choice. The bonuses should probably be more mechanical and less %buffs. Like a slowing totem or w/e.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Munitor

Oh boy I'm getting the popcorn out..

No but seriously, the ops suggestion seems to be the more well thought out and balanced of these two. Also the thread has been quite constructive up until now.

Back on track:

I think it would be better to not have artificial limits and rng totem distribution, so I'm with op here. No the system to obtain should be one of player choice, where you know what you get and where some resource or time cost limits the amount you can get.

Also they should totally be usable in cw/cwl. I think the general attack buff idea is very much tailored towards war usage.

About defensive totems yea, it might work if the bonuses are reasonable. But there probably shouldn't be a +% defense damage, that would be too obvious of a meta choice. The bonuses should probably be more mechanical and less %buffs. Like a slowing totem or w/e.

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If it is useable in war, it would give some small issues. Hardcore war players' war attacks shouldn't depend on their normal attacks.

Yes it'd cause some balancing issues. But I think it would be a loss to suggest a new mechanic like totems only to wall it off from the place where it could find the most use. It's an obvious war attack mechanic, because that's where you typically have to deliver your best in contrast with farming and trophy pushing outside LL.

I'll get back later with a more detailed alternative system of obtaining totems.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Munitor

Yes it'd cause some balancing issues. But I think it would be a loss to suggest a new mechanic like totems only to wall it off from the place where it could find the most use. It's an obvious war attack mechanic, because that's where you typically have to deliver your best in contrast with farming and trophy pushing outside LL.

I'll get back later with a more detailed alternative system of obtaining totems.

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What about making War Totems beside the normal totems? The totems you can only obtain by getting war stars? Problem solved, insn't it?

I ll think about those war totems.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by That Little Trophy

What about making War Totems beside the normal totems? The totems you can only obtain by getting war stars? Problem solved, insn't it?

I ll think about those war totems.

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I'll also think about War Scrolls

Not really a fan of some attacks getting an advantage.
it messes with the game balancing, and makes the playing field uneven.
If you are in legend and get hit by 8 people using trophies you would be very unhappy.

One of of the best things about clash is that it is an even playing field.
To attack players above you just need to level your th up and progress
or aim for 2 stars.

presumably you wouldn't be able to use these in wars -
people already moan about players using power potions for an edge...
this would just make it happen more -

Also it is likely higher players would find it easier to get the
items anyway so if anything there would be more of a gap...
it seems over complicated (becoming a chore) and unbalanced.

It it also hurts defence a lot... defending is a key part of the game,
so things like this can make it pointless designing a base

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GucciGobGang

Not really a fan of some attacks getting an advantage.
it messes with the game balancing, and makes the playing field uneven.
If you are in legend and get hit by 8 people using trophies you would be very unhappy.

One of of the best things about clash is that it is an even playing field.
To attack players above you just need to level your th up and progress
or aim for 2 stars.

presumably you wouldn't be able to use these in wars -
people already moan about players using power potions for an edge...
this would just make it happen more -

Also it is likely higher players would find it easier to get the
items anyway so if anything there would be more of a gap...
it seems over complicated (becoming a chore) and unbalanced.

It it also hurts defence a lot... defending is a key part of the game,
so things like this can make it pointless designing a base

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I completely understand your Point and I agree about the Legend League part. I think it shouldn't be useable in Legend League.


I don't think that the Raiders Heart would cause any problems. So I ll think about totems like this one, without offensive boosts... Thanks for letting me see the idea from this angle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by That Little Trophy

I completely understand your Point and I agree about the Legend League part. I think it shouldn't be useable in Legend League.

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Preferably not for war or CWL either -
if it was something aimed more towards regular attacks then it could add a lot of fun to the game
as soon as it becomes something that adds an edge in compepetive hits it would need balancing.

In this case maybe it would be brought into the game as something unique to th13?
supercell wants people to move up through th's. They have stated that rather than bringing out new content for lower th, players should see the next th as their update ; yes things are ballanced and made accessible earlier from time to time, but that ethos has got them this far :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GucciGobGang

Preferably not for war or CWL either -
if it was something aimed more towards regular attacks then it could add a lot of fun to the game
as soon as it becomes something that adds an edge in compepetive hits it would need balancing.

In this case maybe it would be brought into the game as something unique to th13?
supercell wants people to move up through th's. They have stated that rather than bringing out new content for lower th, players should see the next th as their update ; yes things are ballanced and made accessible earlier from time to time, but that ethos has got them this far :)

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I will change it in my original post that you shouldn't be able to use totems in war. What about making the totems only for th 10+ or 11+? Becouse it Starts to be difficult from th 10 or 11. Then it is really needed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by That Little Trophy

I will change it in my original post that you shouldn't be able to use totems in war. What about making the totems only for th 10+ or 11+? Becouse it Starts to be difficult from th 10 or 11. Then it is really needed.

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This is a good thought. As th9 is mostly the aq grind anyway. Th10 and above does sound good. Maybe th 11 as th 10 can recieve seiges through donation which gives it a fair advantage itself. Od say th 11 and up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bobkoch1984

This is a good thought. As th9 is mostly the aq grind anyway. Th10 and above does sound good. Maybe th 11 as th 10 can recieve seiges through donation which gives it a fair advantage itself. Od say th 11 and up.

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Agree, th11+

The Totem House (or witch hut or similar names)

Available at TH13

Upgrade differences:

Build time || Hitpoints || Queue || Unlock || Boost || Storage
TTH1 7d || 720 || 1 || T1+T2 || 20 gems || 1
TTH2 9d || 820 || 1 || T3 || 20 || 1
TTH3 12d || 1020 || 1 || T4 || 20 || 1
TTH4 14d || 1420 || 2 || T5 || 20 || 1

Training times (approx):

T1 1h
T2 2h
T3 3h
T4 4.5h
T5 6h

Upgrade times:

Rank1 4d
Rank2 6d
Rank3 10d


Ok so the build times, hitpoints and gem boost cost is definitely up for discussion. But the system of having only the capacity for one totem at a time while another (or two) is queued up is intended to minimize overuse. This allows for a player participating in cw to have totems for both attacks, while it also allows for a farmer to have strategic use of a loot increasing totem whenever they draw a 1 mio loot base or other such.

The training times as well are up for discussion. The idea is as above, to have soft limitations on usage. Wether 6h is too much for the best totem is debatable. But it leaves players with choices (outside of war attacks anyway): Do I want to have enrage totem for my next attack and hopefully clear a base while at the same time being unable to use totems for very long afterwards or do I want a loot totem for the next base and only wait a short while for the next one to be ready? Etc

I took the liberty of renaming the common/rare/legendary ranks, because that's what they essentially are. I do believe it would be better if max rank wasn't available straight from construction of The Totem House because that would make lower ranks obsolete straight away. If you have a progressive upgrade/research system it again leaves players with choices of which totems to get max rank of first.

The upgrade times are, again just a suggestion. Where this upgrade should take place is however an open question. The natural way to do this would be via lab upgrades, but seeing as total lab upgrade time is already the deciding factor for maximizing a TH I think an alternative way that runs in parallel would be more appropriate.


Sorry for the wall of text.

I don't really get it. What recource do you need to train the totems? Are you still talking about the %?

Admittedly I left that question open because I don't really have a good answer for that. However, further back I've tried to flesh out the problems with using % destruction as a resource and the potential negative consequences of such a system.

But if I was held at gun point, I'd probably suggest to look into dark elixir as the major resource allocated for various totem needs. Dark elixir already has a tendency to overflow at TH10+, so allocating some of that into totem upgrading and totem training would probably be the least problematic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Munitor

Admittedly I left that question open because I don't really have a good answer for that. However, further back I've tried to flesh out the problems with using % destruction as a resource and the potential negative consequences of such a system.

But if I was held at gun point, I'd probably suggest to look into dark elixir as the major resource allocated for various totem needs. Dark elixir already has a tendency to overflow at TH10+, so allocating some of that into totem upgrading and totem training would probably be the least problematic.

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I gotta say, I like this. Giving dark elixer at that level an additional use would be great.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bobkoch1984

I gotta say, I like this. Giving dark elixer at that level an additional use would be great.

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Now, I am not moaning or anything.
My Scrolls thread got closed unfairly.
Well I still say that it was my own idea. ..
Despite having similarities with this totem thread.
So now it's pointless creating a new Scrolls thread, so I have come to develop this thread.
I extend to you the hand of friendship, ThatLittleTrophy.

-There be 3 kinds of totems : War, Home Village & Builder Base.
-The totems have four rarities :Common, Rare, Epic, LEGNEDARY.
-Each totem of one rarity is equal to two totems of another rarity. (2 commons make 1 rare. ..etc. ..)
I agree, totems are made of dark elixir
-Only 1 totem be used per battle
-Totems available at th10

Increases the time duration of battle.
Rarity. .....Effects. .......Cost (To Buy )....... (To train )

C. ............+5sec. ..........100%.................1000 DE / 4 hr
R..............+10sec. ........300%*
E. .............+20sec. ........650%*
L. ..............+45sec. ........1250%*

*Cannot be forged / trained. To get these rarities without training, you can buy them or combine two commons to make a rare. Merge two rares to make a Epic. Merge 2 epics to for a Legendary

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bobkoch1984

These are not your suggestions....what you just posted was All ready discussed. Stop trying to take credit for someone elses thoughts.

---

There were only 3 rarities initially.

ClashPirate, could give some insight and/or arguments for the following of your suggestions:

- Three different types of totems
- Combining totems for higher ranks

At first glance these things seem to be unnecessarily complex and doesn't really add anything except inconvenience.

First off, what would be the point in adding totems that do the same thing but only usable in particular attacks? Why not just have one type usable across all and leave it to the player to decide when and where to use?

Secondly, combining totems to acquire higher ranks would basically make the max rank available the instance you have The Totem House up. That would instantly make lower ranks useless as opposed to a time gated system like researching higher ranks. A time gated research system would also be more in line with the current game logics, whereas combining totems would be a complete novel functionality that'd add complexity where none is needed.

We already have troops and heroes to upgrade and research. Adding these totems to the mix?
I thought we were talking about something unique and never heard of before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ClashPirate

We already have troops and heroes to upgrade and research. Adding these totems to the mix?
I thought we were talking about something unique and never heard of before.

---

Okay put up something better and never asked before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MayhemWarLord

Okay put up something better and never asked before.

---

There are four rarities
Common
Rare
Epic
Legendary

Only commons can be trained (using DE)

Higher rarities have to be obtained by merging lower rarities.

Totems can be Bought using % (destruction percentage as stated by op )

If we were to upgrade totems,like troops and spells, GAME OVER.

Because it would create heavy imbalances.

Weaker players will be stuck with weaker totems
Stronger players who Will have powerful totems will grow stronger and stronger.
While weaker players will progress very slowly.
There will be so much to research in the lab.

All defending troops and heroes suffer poisonous effects.
Rarity. ..Effects. ....................................Cost
C..........-5%dps -3%hp/sec-1 speed......250%/8hr
R...........-10% / -5% / -2...........................600%
E...........-25%/-8%/-4...............................1250%
L............-40%/-12%/-6.............................2500%

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ClashPirate

There are four rarities
Common
Rare
Epic
Legendary

Only commons can be trained (using DE)

Higher rarities have to be obtained by merging lower rarities.

Totems can be Bought using % (destruction percentage as stated by op )

---

That's exactly what I posted on your scrolls thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ClashPirate

If we were to upgrade totems,like troops and spells, GAME OVER.

Because it would create heavy imbalances.

Weaker players will be stuck with weaker totems
Stronger players who Will have powerful totems will grow stronger and stronger.
While weaker players will progress very slowly.
There will be so much to research in the lab.

---

Making them upgradable allows to fit the contents over more TH levels.

As you progress, you will surely be getting many advantages against the lower ones that's the gameplay.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ClashPirate

All defending troops and heroes suffer poisonous effects.
Rarity. ..Effects. ....................................Cost
C..........-5%dps -3%hp/sec-1 speed......250%/8hr
R...........-10% / -5% / -2...........................600%
E...........-25%/-8%/-4...............................1250%
L............-40%/-12%/-6.............................2500%

---

We can say that Stats are absolutely overpowered.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ClashPirate

If we were to upgrade totems,like troops and spells, GAME OVER.

Because it would create heavy imbalances.

Weaker players will be stuck with weaker totems
Stronger players who Will have powerful totems will grow stronger and stronger.
While weaker players will progress very slowly.
There will be so much to research in the lab.

---

In the original post, I never said it was upgradeble, and it should be available for th11+ only...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ClashPirate

All defending troops and heroes suffer poisonous effects.
Rarity. ..Effects. ....................................Cost
C..........-5%dps -3%hp/sec-1 speed......250%/8hr
R...........-10% / -5% / -2...........................600%
E...........-25%/-8%/-4...............................1250%
L............-40%/-12%/-6.............................2500%

---

It gives the same effect as the Armored Army. The only difference is that the building itself does less damage instead of the troops receiving less damage...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by That Little Trophy

About the randomized pack and luck system:
I don't think that CoC should have a luck based system. At least, I wouldn't like it becouse the %'s value wouldn't be fixed. Every type of loot in CoC has a fixed value. That's just what I think about it🙃.

---

Fair enough

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThatLittleTrophy

About the defensive totems:
It would completely destroy the Point of having offensive totems.

---

called "balance"

the game is already offensive/resource heavy out of necessity. giving offense more power, unchecked and unbalanced, just means people won't take time to learn solid attack strategies

i could see legends league simply collapsing because they lose trophies even if the attacker gets 0 stars! now you want to introduce more offensive power when in legends you take 8 attacks. 5 of those attacks for 5 days of the week on average (25 of 56 attacks over 7 days) will be backed with a totem???

you can buy them on % or stars with no cool down? totems power me up to where a 2 star 60% attack becomes a 3 star 100%. i get higher percent faster, meaning more totems, meaning faster % and stars, meaning more totems, meaning.... at some point you reach critical velocity where every attack is either i next til I find an easy base or i throw a totem attack at a moderately difficult base

or i save them for war. I haven't read all the back and forth amid the hijacking of the thread, but i hope someone with sense has convinced everyone to rule out totems in war!

i see them as a lazy-man's way to attack without improving one's ability

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HonoraryGoblin

Fair enough


called "balance"

the game is already offensive/resource heavy out of necessity. giving offense more power, unchecked and unbalanced, just means people won't take time to learn solid attack strategies

i could see legends league simply collapsing because they lose trophies even if the attacker gets 0 stars! now you want to introduce more offensive power when in legends you take 8 attacks. 5 of those attacks for 5 days of the week on average (25 of 56 attacks over 7 days) will be backed with a totem???

you can buy them on % or stars with no cool down? totems power me up to where a 2 star 60% attack becomes a 3 star 100%. i get higher percent faster, meaning more totems, meaning faster % and stars, meaning more totems, meaning.... at some point you reach critical velocity where every attack is either i next til I find an easy base or i throw a totem attack at a moderately difficult base

or i save them for war. I haven't read all the back and forth amid the hijacking of the thread, but i hope someone with sense has convinced everyone to rule out totems in war!

oh, and i was thinking about the rage one (and maybe speed one if it is limited time) how will that work? the totem is active at the outset of the fight so for the first few seconds queen walk gets rage? my cc draw-lure-kill gets sped up? if you activate a totem at any other time then it just nothing but a spell with a radius that covers the map

i see them as a lazy-man's way to attack without improving one's ability

---

In the original post there is a note: can't be used for war and in Legend League, it has already been discussed.

3staring a base is hard enough at th11+, a totem would bring some chances to 3star a base, but it wouldn't be like "woosh, that base is done, a 3star again". I think that the stats are reasonable and pretty balanced.

You can only drop them at the beginning of the attack.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by That Little Trophy

In the original post there is a note: can't be used for war and in Legend League, it has already been discussed.

---

added after i read the original post. not rereading the whole thread to see everyone's ex-post-facto edits every time

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThatLittleTrophy

3staring a base is hard enough at th11+, a totem would bring some chances to 3star a base, but it wouldn't be like "woosh, that base is done, a 3star again". I think that the stats are reasonable and pretty balanced.

---

oh my gosh! you mean people actually get rewarded for upgrading their defenses by their bases being harder to 3 star????

you are absolutely right that that shouldn't happen! it clearly should not take skill and experience to attack strong bases

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HonoraryGoblin

added after i read the original post. not rereading the whole thread to see everyone's ex-post-facto edits every time

---

Understandable

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HonoraryGoblin

oh my gosh! you mean people actually get rewarded for upgrading their defenses by their bases being harder to 3 star????

you are absolutely right that that shouldn't happen! it clearly should not take skill and experience to attack strong bases

---

The totems are helping hands, like the CC troops!
In my opinion, the stats have reasonable numbers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by That Little Trophy

Understandable


The totems are helping hands, like the CC troops!
In my opinion, the stats have reasonable numbers.

---

okay, next question....

what is the direct/indirect revenue stream for sc?

from what i gather so far:
not for use in wars
not for use in legends
th11+

that's a pretty limited market share with limited use. sc has to make money off the value add since this goes beyond mere qol clean up/streamlining

so how do they make money off of adding an entirely new concept (totems) to the game for limited players in limited use?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HonoraryGoblin

okay, next question....

what is the direct/indirect revenue stream for sc?

from what i gather so far:
not for use in wars
not for use in legends
th11+

that's a pretty limited market share with limited use. sc has to make money off the value add since this goes beyond mere qol clean up/streamlining

so how do they make money off of adding an entirely new concept (totems) to the game for limited players in limited use?

---

I don't get your Point here. The siege is also available from th11+, so players have another reason to up their town hall. The totems would be ANOTHER reason to up your town hall.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by That Little Trophy

I don't get your Point here. The siege is also available from th11+, so players have another reason to up their town hall. The totems would be ANOTHER reason to up your town hall.

---

Quite honestly, i kinda agree with goblin here. I know what some have previously said, but I think they should be able to be used in legends and in wars. If so, everyone in every aspect would have the same opportunity to obtain and use them. And in the light of skill as goblin also pointed out, in order to maintain said skill set, perhaps a totem should take up 2 or 3 spell spots. Take away a spell in order to use one. That can be part of the balance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by That Little Trophy

I don't get your Point here. The siege is also available from th11+, so players have another reason to up their town hall. The totems would be ANOTHER reason to up your town hall.

---

the siege can be donated down to th10. it can be used in war. it can be used in legends. it is almost an essential in war. every clan should carry a 12 just for sieges alone because they are a team element

this did two things. clans that had a defenseless 11 and a bunch of perma-max 9's they used for war jumped the 11 to 12 and the 9's to 10 for the siege alone. it revolutionized the game and made th9 and under pretty much useless in war. it enticed people who before had NO DESIRE to go to 10 or 11 to now RUSH to 10 and 12 (11 is now a pass-through level, not a destination level, 10 and 12 are destination levels)

rushing to be relevant in war indirectly gets people to spend money which is sc's overarching goal (to make money as a business)

now once you have rushed to a destination level, you need to strengthen yourself. so you rush to 10 or 12 then build up. enter gold pass. now the average player can drop $5 a month and get what the elite whales used to spend $100s a month to get. there are more average players than elite whales, btw

sc made $127 million in the first week of the first gold pass. whoever came up with that cash cow should get a fat yearly bonus. and it didn't come out of the forums. it came out of sc's desire to revamp and invigorate its revenue stream

now, totems -- or any other user-generated game element (not picking on totems other than this is the thread i'm explaining this) -- need to directly or indirectly generate cash flow for sc or they get back burnered for things that do

so how will totems, with limited usage (th11/th12, non-legends, daily raid) generate the cash flow worthy of the coding they will require?

that's my question. that's my point

i have a rushed 12 to donate max sieges and troops that i am paying $5 a month for gold pass to use the goodies to get solidified now

my main is th11 i turned from th10 5 weeks ago and will eventually be a solid 12 when it gets there (passing through th11)

i have several th10s that i am content leaving as th10s for both cw and cwl. no need right now for them to be moving to 12

if the warden and eagle aren't enough to entice me to hit and hold at 11 with those th10 accounts, totems won't make me want to move them either

what will make me move them is when 13 (or 14) drops, th10 is no longer relevant in cw/cwl, and I move them to become 12s (and my 12s to 13+)

that's the long way of explaining totems will not indirectly get "average joe blow" players to cough up coin. and average joe blow players are the only ones who might find totems useful

so now we need to look at direct cash flow from acquiring totems

gems, right?

power potions and hero potions can be bought for gems. but only when they cycle through the trader, nowhere else. their availability for purchase is limited. they can be won elsewhere, but as far as direct cash flow (buying gems to get them occasionally from the trader) they are rare. they are also available to all levels -- th8+ trader, th7+ gold/silver pass, th6+ games rewards, th3+ if they complete critter events (usually with clan donated troops if low th) for the reward

if I can buy totem packs for gems from the totem hut to satisfy direct cash flow at any time, then clash just became PAY TO WIN for th11's and th12's EXCLUSIVELY who aren't in legends league

that's pretty narrow

those damage reduction totems and raged cc totems when my siege deposits them in the core will be nearly guaranteed 3 stars. keep in mind also, other people will be using totems against you. the forum will be filled with people griping that everyone uses the bonus loot totem against their home village and gets extra loot off them. or "i can't climb leagues because totems make my base easier to 3 star by weaker bases and i lose 30+ trophies every defense"

imagine the 10s in champs 3, already miffed a th12 in titans 3, gets to drop 2 th levels and 2 league levels on them, if that 12 also uses a totem to boost loot. the forums will be filled with flame-out messages about balance and fairness and what sc can do with it's pay-to-win, exclusive club totems.

Goblin, I don't think the bonus loot totem takes extra loot from you. The original loot raided is increased by a certain percentage

Totems must be available from th8 onwards

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ClashPirate

Goblin, I don't think the bonus loot totem takes extra loot from you. The original loot raided is increased by a certain percentage

---

extra loot is generated for the attackers -- millions of attackers -- from... where? now the totem becomes similar to a war loot bonus perk, but at the individual level, without achieving any benchmark other than breathing?

hard to say where it comes from. the damage reduction totem reduces my (as hypothetical defender) defences outside of my control. there's nothing in the system that i can do to prevent it. if i have max defenses, this reduces me to possibly a th lower. maybe 2 th's lower. and there's no improvement i can make, no base design i can build, to prevent getting walked on. the game economy is in hyper-saturation already. lots of loot falling from the sky and 20% reduction on costs/time that baseline were already reduced to encourage mass upgrading to hit th12

ok, all that "pump priming" (dumping free currency into the economy) is returning to sc in the form of increased spending on upgrades and "lost (by defender) but not captured (by attacker)" loot when people with overfull storages attack. it is hidden taxation (recuperation) of resources dumped into the system. we don't see it because we are fat and happy rolling in our gold vats like scrouge mcduck. but the currency comes from the "central bank" (sc) and is returning to the central bank

now the loot totem only works if the economy allows it to work. the resources have to come from either the defender (increased offering over what it normally would be) or sc's central bank

if from players, see above post. if from sc's central bank, either they have to know there is additional room for growth (expenditures on upgrades) or resources from other sources (ie: gold pass) need to be cut back to compensate

meanwhile, totems are currently in this thread for th11 and th12 only. a lot of those are overfull storages or maxed 12 (so wouldn't use totem anyway). for the others, long upgrade times mean excess loot sits in storages to be taken at increased % by the next attacker

first attacker hits for 100, add 10, holds 110
second attacker hits for 110, add 11, holds 121
third attacker hits for 121, add 12, holds 133
fourth attacker hits for 133, add 13, holds 146
fifth attacker hits for 146, add 14, holds 160
sixth attacker hits for 160, add 16, holds 176
seventh attacker hits for 176 add 17, holds 193
eighth attacker hits for 193, add 19, holds 212

in only 8 attacks, that 100 baseline resource more than doubled the amount of that resource in the economy. multiply that by millions of players

in short order bases are all going to offer 1 million+ gold and elixir and 10 thousand+ dark just because the loot generated into the economy by totems will be ridiculous

how would sc control that? yes. by doubling the cost of every upgrade

inflation

welcome to keynesian economics 101

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HonoraryGoblin

extra loot is generated for the attackers -- millions of attackers -- from... where?

---

Extra loot is already generated from attackers in the form of attack and star bonuses. Along with the season bank, which effectively doubles your loot hauls, and then overflows your storages once a month. All of these pose more risk of inflation than a totem that offers 10% more loot, which in essence would be the sc bank matching up to 10% of whatever a defender offers. Thats 100k on an offer of 1mill, hardly breathtaking when the champs 1 attack bonus is 250k. Doubling cost of buildings is an extreme scenario, that I dont think is realistic considering SCs previous behavior regarding upgrade costs. Adjustments could easily be made to loot and star bonuses as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HonoraryGoblin

extra loot is generated for the attackers -- millions of attackers -- from... where? now the totem becomes similar to a war loot bonus perk, but at the individual level, without achieving any benchmark other than breathing?

hard to say where it comes from. the damage reduction totem reduces my (as hypothetical defender) defences outside of my control. there's nothing in the system that i can do to prevent it. if i have max defenses, this reduces me to possibly a th lower. maybe 2 th's lower. and there's no improvement i can make, no base design i can build, to prevent getting walked on. the game economy is in hyper-saturation already. lots of loot falling from the sky and 20% reduction on costs/time that baseline were already reduced to encourage mass upgrading to hit th12

ok, all that "pump priming" (dumping free currency into the economy) is returning to sc in the form of increased spending on upgrades and "lost (by defender) but not captured (by attacker)" loot when people with overfull storages attack. it is hidden taxation (recuperation) of resources dumped into the system. we don't see it because we are fat and happy rolling in our gold vats like scrouge mcduck. but the currency comes from the "central bank" (sc) and is returning to the central bank

now the loot totem only works if the economy allows it to work. the resources have to come from either the defender (increased offering over what it normally would be) or sc's central bank

if from players, see above post. if from sc's central bank, either they have to know there is additional room for growth (expenditures on upgrades) or resources from other sources (ie: gold pass) need to be cut back to compensate

meanwhile, totems are currently in this thread for th11 and th12 only. a lot of those are overfull storages or maxed 12 (so wouldn't use totem anyway). for the others, long upgrade times mean excess loot sits in storages to be taken at increased % by the next attacker

first attacker hits for 100, add 10, holds 110
second attacker hits for 110, add 11, holds 121
third attacker hits for 121, add 12, holds 133
fourth attacker hits for 133, add 13, holds 146
fifth attacker hits for 146, add 14, holds 160
sixth attacker hits for 160, add 16, holds 176
seventh attacker hits for 176 add 17, holds 193
eighth attacker hits for 193, add 19, holds 212

in only 8 attacks, that 100 baseline resource more than doubled the amount of that resource in the economy. multiply that by millions of players

in short order bases are all going to offer 1 million+ gold and elixir and 10 thousand+ dark just because the loot generated into the economy by totems will be ridiculous

how would sc control that? yes. by doubling the cost of every upgrade

inflation

welcome to keynesian economics 101

---

You should be a "game specialist"

Back to the point,
About that balance, should I think about the defensive totems he was talking about? For balance?

Is it even possible to implement the totems in the game WITH that money flow? Any suggestions?

What if the legendary totems are not for free, that you can only get them if you pay the... Legendary pass? It would cause a small pay2win issue, but it's not that bad, is it?

And what if the bonus of the Raiders Heart is also Stolen from your opponent?

The totems feel like a good idea but in practice I don’t think it would work well. They would have to be disabled in legends and war for them to not imbalance the game. However, this makes them useless in the end game. Supercell is focusing on improving and adding content to the end game. It also would turn into a zero sum game if a 40% attacking boots meets a 40% defending boost.

As for clash pirate, no people don’t hate you. We are just tired of you being disrespectful and stealing others ideas. The fact that one of your posts has a title of “you are so stupid” kind of proves the point.

I must say, I had hoped a mod would come and take care of the spam posts from certain individuals who're suffering from some behaviour issues. This thread should be focused on giving constructive criticism on the OPs suggestion. And there are honestly a fair amount of issues being raised, to name a few:

- The viability of the system if it basically skewers the offense/defense balance by flat percentages
- The inflation issue, i.e. where should the loot be generated from (various systems are already in the game that generates loot out of nowhere)
- The general applicability of the system across all ranges and types of attacks/defenses
- The obtainability, access and cost to the system
- The risk vs reward between using and not using a specific totem type

And to practice what I preach:
If the system is implemented in a way that essentially gives you a flat percentage buff to your offensive, then it's a bad system that could and should be fixed by rebalancing the current offensive/defensive parameters.
If however the system adds functionality that isn't already there (the exploding troops on death comes close) then it could be a viable system and a great addition to the game.

Resources are already being generated in the game out of nowhere, namely from collectors and various bonuses. As long as there are places to spend a proportional amount of resources to the amount being generated the inflation of resources is minimal (this is only really an issue at TH12). But I will agree, that the loot bonus from a totem should be balanced to have low impact on revenue on average, but have high impact on a single attack. This basically boils down to questions about how many percentages should it increase and should the loot be generated or come out of the defender storage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Munitor

I must say, I had hoped a mod would come and take care of the spam posts from certain individuals who're suffering from some behaviour issues. This thread should be focused on giving constructive criticism on the OPs suggestion. And there are honestly a fair amount of issues being raised, to name a few:

- The viability of the system if it basically skewers the offense/defense balance by flat percentages
- The inflation issue, i.e. where should the loot be generated from (various systems are already in the game that generates loot out of nowhere)
- The general applicability of the system across all ranges and types of attacks/defenses
- The obtainability, access and cost to the system
- The risk vs reward between using and not using a specific totem type

And to practice what I preach:
If the system is implemented in a way that essentially gives you a flat percentage buff to your offensive, then it's a bad system that could and should be fixed by rebalancing the current offensive/defensive parameters.
If however the system adds functionality that isn't already there (the exploding troops on death comes close) then it could be a viable system and a great addition to the game.

Resources are already being generated in the game out of nowhere, namely from collectors and various bonuses. As long as there are places to spend a proportional amount of resources to the amount being generated the inflation of resources is minimal (this is only really an issue at TH12). But I will agree, that the loot bonus from a totem should be balanced to have low impact on revenue on average, but have high impact on a single attack. This basically boils down to questions about how many percentages should it increase and should the loot be generated or come out of the defender storage.

---

So a nerf is needed to make the downside effects cause less impact on the economy/balance? I partly agree. A legendary totem should have a huge effect becouse it costs 2500% of destruction. But the Common and rare totems can be nerfed if needed.

The inflation effect: why doesn't the additional loot come from your opponent? It would bring balance for the Raiders Heart.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by That Little Trophy

The inflation effect: why doesn't the additional loot come from your opponent? It would bring balance for the Raiders Heart.

---

The loot cap exists to protect your resources. It would be unfair to the defender to increase that amount available for loot just because an attacker uses a magical item (totem). I think the only place these bonuses should be coming from is the SC bank.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ClashPirate

i am so stupid 

---

Finally, a post by ClashPirate that makes some sense

So after all I have seen, I can conclude that it's impossible to implement the totems into clash of clans without having any balance or economy issues?

There should be a way to avoid those issues, but I don't know how🙉.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by philisuppose

finally, a post by clashpirate that makes some sense

---

😂😂😂😂bam! Roasted!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by That Little Trophy

So a nerf is needed to make the downside effects cause less impact on the economy/balance? I partly agree. A legendary totem should have a huge effect becouse it costs 2500% of destruction. But the Common and rare totems can be nerfed if needed.

The inflation effect: why doesn't the additional loot come from your opponent? It would bring balance for the Raiders Heart.

---

Inflation will never be a problem with clash of clans. Inflation only occurs in a free market where goods are sold at market price. However, the prices for buildings are set which are effectively price controls. A maxed wall will always cost 5 million (without gold pass). Therefore, a piece of gold will always be worth 1/5million maxed walls.

Clash of clans is essentially a centrally planned economy. This actually works in video games because there cannot be a black market, the dev has complete control.

I added the defensive totems, idea by HonoraryGoblin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by That Little Trophy

I added the defensive totems, idea by HonoraryGoblin.

---

That raises the question. ....What's the use of defensive totems?

You haven't described what a totem looks like.
I have described it in great detail.
See my post pg 8

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by That Little Trophy

I added the defensive totems, idea by HonoraryGoblin.

---

This is good. It can provide balance against totems that power up your troops. Only if you have one. The defensive totem should be where once you have one, you can place it in your village where it will sit till youre attacked. Its good for one defense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ClashPirate

That raises the question. ....What's the use of defensive totems?

---

Main Reasons:
- Brings balance
- Solves the SC bank problem

2 of the main problems already solved.

- The viability of the system if it basically skewers the offense/defense balance by flat percentages
- The inflation issue, i.e. where should the loot be generated from (various systems are already in the game that generates loot out of nowhere)
- The general applicability of the system across all ranges and types of attacks/defenses
- The obtainability, access and cost to the system
- The risk vs reward between using and not using a specific totem type

So these are the issues munitor was talking about. A few of them are solved.
1) balance: solved becouse of def totems
2) loot coming from nowhere: solved becouse of def totems

3 more to go, anyone with solutions?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by That Little Trophy

- The viability of the system if it basically skewers the offense/defense balance by flat percentages
- The inflation issue, i.e. where should the loot be generated from (various systems are already in the game that generates loot out of nowhere)
- The general applicability of the system across all ranges and types of attacks/defenses
- The obtainability, access and cost to the system
- The risk vs reward between using and not using a specific totem type

So these are the issues munitor was talking about. A few of them are solved.
1) balance: solved becouse of def totems
2) loot coming from nowhere: solved becouse of def totems

3 more to go, anyone with solutions?

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Currently anything that can be used on the battlefield, either offensively or defensively, is cooked or manufactured, using either the barracks, spell factory, or the workshop.

From what I understand of your idea, totems would be the first item usable on the battlefield that is not an item that the user cooks, but rather collects.

I think the idea is a nice concept, but poses problems with consistency, especially when it comes to attack/defensive attributes. My addition to this idea, would be that totems are an item that can be consistently recreated at a new structure, something like the shaman hut. and instead of having these items discovered randomly with varying degrees of rarity, I think that totems should be upgradable in the lab.

I actually think the idea is a nice concept to add at th13, as it would be a new attack and defense concept to play with, but at the same time doesnt add complexity, of another troop or hero, to the ever increasing deployment bar.

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Originally Posted by MiddleC

Currently anything that can be used on the battlefield, either offensively or defensively, is cooked or manufactured, using either the barracks, spell factory, or the workshop.

From what I understand of your idea, totems would be the first item usable on the battlefield that is not an item that the user cooks, but rather collects.

I think the idea is a nice concept, but poses problems with consistency, especially when it comes to attack/defensive attributes. My addition to this idea, would be that totems are an item that can be consistently recreated at a new structure, something like the shaman hut. and instead of having these items discovered randomly with varying degrees of rarity, I think that totems should be upgradable in the lab.

I actually think the idea is a nice concept to add at th13, as it would be a new attack and defense concept to play with, but at the same time doesnt add complexity, of another troop or hero, to the ever increasing deployment bar.

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That's what I wanted to do first. Making it a trainable and upgradeble thing. But I wanted to make it something special. Something that you can't call a magic item and something that you can't train, only obtainable by attacking and skills.

But when I look at the siege machines, it's also completely new and at the same time trainable and upgradeble. So yes, why not for the totems. You are right, it should be trainable and upgradeble, but you should not be able to donate them.

One more question before I edit in the OP: what would it cost? Again that destruction %?

Kudos for constructiveness.

If you go back and have a look in the thread, there were, I believe, a couple of suggestions for totems as trainable items. And you're absolutely right that a trainable system would be much more consistent.
The thing with totem ranks (or rarities) being researchable has also already been raised. But the major issue is how to make it so without further increasing the total research time for any particular TH. My best bet is to make totem research run parallel to all other research.

About inflation of resources, yes that's a complete misnomer, I agree with that. And yes, taking more loot out of the defending base is probably not the way to go.
I think the concern was more about the consequences of resources being available in much higher quantities through the use of a loot increasing totem. The over abundance of resources could probably be lessened by making the cost to use a loot increasing totem very high. This could add a risk vs reward to the decision making of its use.

And while I do see the idea of defensive/offensive totems negating each other, consider this: To make the system fair it should be visible that a base has a defending totem set up. If that's the case for a regular farming attack then most would assume a loot decreasing totem. This would in most cases lead to the attacker nexting to a base without totem. In effect the dynamic would lead to attackers with totems almost never going up against defenders with totems. This is as I see it a flaw in the argument that there should be totems that cancel each other out. (Obviously the case is different for war and LL attacks where totems would always be mandatory)

Now we can let actual serious discussion of this thread continue without meaningless posts.

(Aside from this one ha ha)

Much better to read
Some good coversations around balance

I'll be honest, I'm not a big fan, it feels a bit gimmicky to me
Just a further complication

Wouldn't bother me either way I guess if some variation of it was added

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Originally Posted by Munitor

Kudos for constructiveness.

If you go back and have a look in the thread, there were, I believe, a couple of suggestions for totems as trainable items. And you're absolutely right that a trainable system would be much more consistent.
The thing with totem ranks (or rarities) being researchable has also already been raised. But the major issue is how to make it so without further increasing the total research time for any particular TH. My best bet is to make totem research run parallel to all other research.

About inflation of resources, yes that's a complete misnomer, I agree with that. And yes, taking more loot out of the defending base is probably not the way to go.
I think the concern was more about the consequences of resources being available in much higher quantities through the use of a loot increasing totem. The over abundance of resources could probably be lessened by making the cost to use a loot increasing totem very high. This could add a risk vs reward to the decision making of its use.

And while I do see the idea of defensive/offensive totems negating each other, consider this: To make the system fair it should be visible that a base has a defending totem set up. If that's the case for a regular farming attack then most would assume a loot decreasing totem. This would in most cases lead to the attacker nexting to a base without totem. In effect the dynamic would lead to attackers with totems almost never going up against defenders with totems. This is as I see it a flaw in the argument that there should be totems that cancel each other out. (Obviously the case is different for war and LL attacks where totems would always be mandatory)

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If you get attacked, you can't choose if the attacker uses a totem or not. So why would you as attacker be able to choose a base with of without totem? I think it shouldn't be visible.

I think it was goblin who made a point about this further back:

(and this goes specifically for farming attacks, totems should be assumed on a defending base in any war attack)

If the increased resources available on a defending base from a loot totem comes out of the defenders storages, then this should be directly visible on inspection of the resources offered when drawing the base from the pool.
if the increased resources are added as a bonus on top of the resources available, this should also be clearly visible on the resources offered on a base.
If the increase from a loot totem is a flat bonus based on trophy range (which is clearly not the intention of the suggestion) this could and should be fixed by increasing the trophy range bonuses themselves instead.

Either way, I don't see it possible to not either directly or indirectly indicate that a defending base is using a totem. This leads back to my last post about wether totems with mutual cancelling effects would actually work as the intended suggestion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Munitor

I think it was goblin who made a point about this further back:

(and this goes specifically for farming attacks, totems should be assumed on a defending base in any war attack)

If the increased resources available on a defending base from a loot totem comes out of the defenders storages, then this should be directly visible on inspection of the resources offered when drawing the base from the pool.
if the increased resources are added as a bonus on top of the resources available, this should also be clearly visible on the resources offered on a base.
If the increase from a loot totem is a flat bonus based on trophy range (which is clearly not the intention of the suggestion) this could and should be fixed by increasing the trophy range bonuses themselves instead.

Either way, I don't see it possible to not either directly or indirectly indicate that a defending base is using a totem. This leads back to my last post about wether totems with mutual cancelling effects would actually work as the intended suggestion.

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It would work like this:

As attacker:
If you want to use the Raiders Heart, you can tap on the totem (not deployed yet) and hold, so you see what the bonus of loot would be if you deploy the Raiders Heart. Same as you can tap and hold the CC troops before deployment to see what's in it.

As defender:
You can set the totem as defense in the totem house. Your opponent who attacks you, can't see any sign of a totem until he deploys his troops. When it's a "miserly keep" totem, the decrease of loot will be visible for the attacker.

Ok, being able to see the resources available with and without a loot totem down would definitely add convenience. However this only adresses half of the issue.

Not being able to see wether a defender is using a totem until deployment is blatantly unfair to the attacker and would make the whole system very un-transparent. I'm all for players having the possibility of taking calculated risks when attacking, but this necessitates transparency in resources available before deployment.

Player1 attacks player2 without knowledge of p2 having a totem or not. P1 has an army cost of 300k and a potential bonus of 150k. P2 base offers 400k of each. P1 can do either of two things: use a loot totem or not.
P1 decides to go without a totem because a totem is costly and he'd still be 250k in the clear. At first deployment he realizes P2 is using a totem and the available resources now drop to 200k which means his profit drops to 50k. P1 can choose to go through with the attack or abort it entirely.

I don't know, but it doesn't sound like a very fair scenario to set up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Munitor

Ok, being able to see the resources available with and without a loot totem down would definitely add convenience. However this only adresses half of the issue.

Not being able to see wether a defender is using a totem until deployment is blatantly unfair to the attacker and would make the whole system very un-transparent. I'm all for players having the possibility of taking calculated risks when attacking, but this necessitates transparency in resources available before deployment.

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The traps and teslas are also hidden. Attacking a base is always risky and can end badly. Yes, the defensive totems would make attacking even more risky, but I think that the offensive totems would Bring the balance back again.

this issue is 3/4 solved (which is in my opinion enough). Please Tell me if it's not.

Moving on to the next issue:
Obtaining the totems. What would it cost to train/upgrade?
Gold, elixer, dark elixer?
Maybe gems? (No, this would make CoC a pay2win).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Munitor

Ok, being able to see the resources available with and without a loot totem down would definitely add convenience. However this only adresses half of the issue.

Not being able to see wether a defender is using a totem until deployment is blatantly unfair to the attacker and would make the whole system very un-transparent. I'm all for players having the possibility of taking calculated risks when attacking, but this necessitates transparency in resources available before deployment.

Player1 attacks player2 without knowledge of p2 having a totem or not. P1 has an army cost of 300k and a potential bonus of 150k. P2 base offers 400k of each. P1 can do either of two things: use a loot totem or not.
P1 decides to go without a totem because a totem is costly and he'd still be 250k in the clear. At first deployment he realizes P2 is using a totem and the available resources now drop to 200k which means his profit drops to 50k. P1 can choose to go through with the attack or abort it entirely.

I don't know, but it doesn't sound like a very fair scenario to set up.

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Okay this issue is totally not solved😁. It doesn't sound fair at all.

EDIT: BUT p1 still has his Raiders Heart Totem. He can use it in his next attacks and gain his loot back. So seeing it from this angle...

Haha yea sorry I'm poking holes in the suggestion, but do you really want a system where you have to assume a defending loot totem when doing farm attacks? And yes, in the scenario P1 still has his loot totem, but he has also committed to an attack and spent resources and time on what I think is a false premise. Furthermore P2 has also spent a totem and in the case of P1 aborting the attack, the totem P2 has used has had very close to none of the intended effect.

What will likely happen if a defending totem isn't indicated is that players will have to skip to next base a lot more to account for the risk of uncertainty in the actual resources available. This will quite likely also lead to fewer bases being deemed worthy of a farm attack. The trophy pushers won't take out these average loot bases unless they also offer a certain amount of trophies.

On the other hand if a defending totem is indicated then farming players will still skip these bases unless they have an army investment that allows an acceptable profit to be made from attacking. But even then, why attack a base with a defending totem when you can just skip to one that hasn't and increase your profits dramatically?

Either way you implement totems that negate each other the reality will probably be, that you rarely ever will see players with a loot totem attacking another player with a loot totem, which I think was the reasoning behind implementing both types.

Another unfortunate consequences either way would be a narrowing of the farmable bases which would lead to increased search time which is basically the same as clouds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Munitor

Haha yea sorry I'm poking holes in the suggestion, but do you really want a system where you have to assume a defending loot totem when doing farm attacks? And yes, in the scenario P1 still has his loot totem, but he has also committed to an attack and spent resources and time on what I think is a false premise. Furthermore P2 has also spent a totem and in the case of P1 aborting the attack, the totem P2 has used has had very close to none of the intended effect.

What will likely happen if a defending totem isn't indicated is that players will have to skip to next base a lot more to account for the risk of uncertainty in the actual resources available. This will quite likely also lead to fewer bases being deemed worthy of a farm attack. The trophy pushers won't take out these average loot bases unless they also offer a certain amount of trophies.

On the other hand if a defending totem is indicated then farming players will still skip these bases unless they have an army investment that allows an acceptable profit to be made from attacking. But even then, why attack a base with a defending totem when you can just skip to one that hasn't and increase your profits dramatically?

Either way you implement totems that negate each other the reality will probably be, that you rarely ever will see players with a loot totem attacking another player with a loot totem, which I think was the reasoning behind implementing both types.

Another unfortunate consequences either way would be a narrowing of the farmable bases which would lead to increased search time which is basically the same as clouds.

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I give up😂

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Originally Posted by That Little Trophy

I give up😂

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Honestly I think the concept is solid but is still in conceptual stages. Rather than focusing on statistics, I would be trying to hone the concept into making sense in the game, before attributing specific stats to each totem. Until the concept is solid, people will contrive hypothetical specific situations about how it will never work in the game, creating problems for your idea, rather than identifying them.

Personally from an offensive perspective, I dont like the idea of being able to place a totem before the battle that affects troops anywhere on the battlefield.

I think the totem itself is more of a structure so it would make more sense as a defense or support building, than a tool for offense. However this doesnt mean that this totem wont come without an offensive counterpart.

Think for a second about the potential of the grand wardens aura. This aura has a main function, but could also produce an auxiliary effect such as increased speed, increased damage, or even resurrection (troops that die under aura come back as skellys). These are just some basic ideas that could be expanded on for offensive capabilities. Instead of having a totem for offense the warden could have a choice of staffs,or scrolls, or tomes that each produce a slightly different effect.

Further examination into the totem as a defensive unit. I think it would be cool if it was a building about the size of a tesla that grows taller and increases radius of aura as it is upgraded. The totem pole! This building could have an option of effects that can be used, for example: poison, or slow, it could even affect defensive buildings in its radius, like increased attack speed or range. These totems however and the modes that you can set them too should be identifiable to an attacker, so they can plan on how they want to deal with the totem and the surrounding buildings that it affects. Once the totem is destroyed, the surrounding buildings also would lose the effect of the totem.

I actually really like your idea trophy and it would be something for Supercell to grab a hold of, play around with, and fine tune for balance. The devs and game testers will fine tune the stats, but a solid, coherent, well-defined concept goes a long way in terms of idea development.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MiddleC

Honestly I think the concept is solid but is still in conceptual stages. Rather than focusing on statistics, I would be trying to hone the concept into making sense in the game, before attributing specific stats to each totem. Until the concept is solid, people will contrive hypothetical specific situations about how it will never work in the game, creating problems for your idea, rather than identifying them.

Personally from an offensive perspective, I dont like the idea of being able to place a totem before the battle that affects troops anywhere on the battlefield.

I think the totem itself is more of a structure so it would make more sense as a defense or support building, than a tool for offense. However this doesnt mean that this totem wont come without an offensive counterpart.

Think for a second about the potential of the grand wardens aura. This aura has a main function, but could also produce an auxiliary effect such as increased speed, increased damage, or even resurrection (troops that die under aura come back as skellys). These are just some basic ideas that could be expanded on for offensive capabilities. Instead of having a totem for offense the warden could have a choice of staffs,or scrolls, or tomes that each produce a slightly different effect.

Further examination into the totem as a defensive unit. I think it would be cool if it was a building about the size of a tesla that grows taller and increases radius of aura as it is upgraded. The totem pole! This building could have an option of effects that can be used, for example: poison, or slow, it could even affect defensive buildings in its radius, like increased attack speed or range. These totems however and the modes that you can set them too should be identifiable to an attacker, so they can plan on how they want to deal with the totem and the surrounding buildings that it affects. Once the totem is destroyed, the surrounding buildings also would lose the effect of the totem.

I actually really like your idea trophy and it would be something for Supercell to grab a hold of, play around with, and fine tune for balance. The devs and game testers will fine tune the stats, but a solid, coherent, well-defined concept goes a long way in terms of idea development.

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Wow, this is a big source of inspiration! I want to thank you for that! I really like the idea of giving the GW these effects! And the smaller effect radius of the def totem makes the idea a lot more reasonable and less complicated to implement it into CoC.

I will think about a complete rework of the idea (I will name your name in the OP).
Thanks again for the suggestions 😀✌️

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Originally Posted by That Little Trophy

Wow, this is a big source of inspiration! I want to thank you for that! I really like the idea of giving the GW these effects! And the smaller effect radius of the def totem makes the idea a lot more reasonable and less complicated to implement it into CoC.

I will think about a complete rework of the idea (I will name your name in the OP).
Thanks again for the suggestions 😀✌️

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My pleasure!

People have been asking for defensive spells for a long time. I really like the potential for totems to combine that concept with a structure that loses its effect once it is destroyed.

I also like the potential of totems, or there offensive counterpart, to add variety to attack strategies, without further complicating the troop deployment bar. This is part of the reason a 4th hero doesnt seem likely, as the deployment bar is already quite crowded. Thx for the rep buddy!

The rework is done! I added the story of the 5 builders. If you want to read...