[Discuss] How should SuperCell address the loot issues and upcoming updates?

Brace yourselves, this is a long post.

Well, I've made numerous posts on what should have happened, but it seems like they've gone ignored. SuperCell has been doing an awesome job at dodging the topic lately, so I'm not making this thread for their benefit. I'm making it so we can have an organized discussion on what we think should change.


I'll start off.

I believe these are the following issues that need to be addressed:

1. Lack of loot in the system
2. Troop times take too long to build
3. Spell times take too long to build
4. Updates need to be impressive. [last two weren't]

I'll start off by going through the list each topic with the respective number beside it.


1. Lack of Loot in the System

SuperCell attempted to fix the loot issue, which is a great thing. Essentially they let us know that the looting system was originally designed for only 8 town hall levels and they never updated it when they added Town Hall 9 or 10. In theory, this is a great thing that they are updating it, I'll explain why.

It not only gives Town Hall 10s a reason to play again, but it allows people to loot more from other people. This leads to more exciting raids and higher nerves when signing off.

People will say that this is a bad thing and actually encourages people to dump their gold before they sign off. Yes, this is true, but when the system is working properly (read: when there is a proper amount of loot flowing) people will stop dumping their gold because they know they can make it back easily. So, the new loot system is not the problem as many of you seem to think.

The problem is that we have an updated loot system but an outdated loot production system. We still have the same production rates as we did in the beginning. The only tweak that I recall is that Town Hall 10s got an extra level on their collectors/mines. Obviously SuperCell knew that Town Hall 10s needed it because they were suffering for loot at the time. Now that a large portion of the community is suffering for loot, they need to make adjustments.

How can they do this though?

Simple, here is a list of things that will help:

• 1a. Encourage people to upgrade their mines, collectors, and drills
• 1b. Increase loot production to all levels of the collectors, mines, and drills
• 1c. Introduce a week long resource boost for 1 gem to jump start it.

Well, how do they go about these things and what are the potential problems!?

Glad you asked, lets look into these.

1a. They need to add an achievement for this. Simple really.

• Upgrade 5 mines and 5 collectors to level 5 for 50 gems
• Upgrade 5 mines, 5 collectors, 1 de drill to 10/10/3 respectively for 100 gems.
• Upgrade 5 mines, 5 collectors, 3 de drills to 11/11/6 respectively for 250 gem.

Isn't that too many gems? No. It not only encourages people to upgrade them, but also gives them the opportunity to use those gems to boost the production rate when they need it. Overall, it is good for the CoC economy.

This will help ensure that you won't need to click next 50+ times to find a base worth looting.

1b. Loot production rates need to increase

Lets start off with something SuperSteve said. (Sorry Steve, don't mean to pick on you, I'm sure they made you say it to us)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SuperSteve

But this could irreversibly ruin the game by making loot too easy to get!

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That isn't a direct quote, but close enough.

First of all, it isn't a change that could irreversibly ruin the game. We know this because of the last time we did the week long 1-gem boost. If loot starts getting out of hand (it won't, but lets pretend), then you simply tweak the production rate accordingly, just as you have done with defensive buildings, troops, etc.

When the production rates are increased to sustain the new loot system, it will work as you guys originally intended. People won't be dumping gold when they log off. Well developed bases will return to their proper leagues. Less developed bases won't be constantly squashed by big boy towns as often. People will be happy that they can return to less ridiculous armies for every single battle. Playing will be enjoyable once again.

1c. Jump start the return of loot with a 1-gem boost.

First, I know you guys are likely planning this, but don't be greedy. Do week-long boosts for 1 gem instead of 1 gem per day. It is the holiday season, is it not?

Not only this, but people have been having serious loot issues for the past 5-6 weeks. It would be nice to actually enjoy raiding again.


2. Troop Times Take Too Tong to Build

This is an ongoing issue. I (and many others) have to sit around for 30-40 minutes before we can do another raid (and that is ignoring the spells).

I suggest that as people progress into high trophy ranges that the troop cook times decrease slightly. This would make the higher trophy ranges more exciting rather than being able to run one raid and having to put the device away.

Keep in mind, 30 minutes is a short time for an army build up there. If you want a Pekka, Golem, Dragon, Witch, etc army, you get to wait a long time for every single battle.

I suggest an overall slight reduction to everyone's troop builds, but also some hierarchical troop build reductions as people get into higher leagues.

I also suggest that you allow us to keep whatever troops don't die in the battle. This would help in making our cook times decrease.

3. Spell Times Take Too Long to Cook

When trophy pushing this past weekend, I found myself waiting on spells every single time. Even with a boost on it, I was still waiting on them. Many attacks require 4+ spell in higher trophy ranges.

All spells need another time reduction across the board.

Also, allow us to queue as many spells as we want (like we used to be able to do). The reason this is viable again is because we are no longer using gold to make them, so now we can't simply hide gold away in the spell factory.

Lastly, remove the 50% penalty when having to cancel a spell. I've made mistakes multiple times by fat-fingering the wrong spell.

4. Bring Excitement Back Into Updates

I'm sorry, but the last two updates were very underwhelming.

4a. Upgrade-able traps
4b. Loot System & Inferno Tower

4a. Upgrade-able traps

Yeah, it was a nice touch, but it was an entire update. Definitely not impressed with it. Kept my mouth shut and waited for the next one.

4b. Loot System & Inferno Towers

Well, lets start with the loot system. Like I said, it is a great idea and has potential. But it requires loot in the system to work properly. No more excuses...this is what it needs to work.

Inferno Towers...well this was a doozie. The multi-target thing is fine, it combats hogs (which isn't even needed, a TH9 with a proper base setup can handle hogs). The "can't heal troops once Inferno Tower touches them" is way overpowered.

This shifts almost all of the TH9s out of the Masters league. It is sad when a pre-mature TH10 can stay in a higher league than a fully developed TH9 due to one defensive tower.

I assume you guys will be nerfing the IT slightly, but it definitely needs to lose the anti-heal ability.

TH10s, before you complain and say something like "We are a higher town hall, so we deserve better items". Yes, I agree, but that is exactly what the Inferno Tower and Freeze Spell are for. They don't need to be overpowered.

Overall, it was another underwhelming update.

Here are some prime examples of what we would like to see:

• New Dark Troop (come on, we know its right around the corner)
• Revamped Single Player Missions
• Quests that Reward Players (Mastermind's example is perfect)
• Ability to compete with other players/clan (many want this, many don't)
• A feasible way to recruit members for your clan
• Co-Leader roles in clans (in case leader goes inactive)
• Find some functionality improvements, there are loads that could be done

Those are just a few examples of updates that we want to see. I would venture to say that these were types of updates that we expected after seeing the quality of updates leading up to these last to measly updates.


Final Thoughts

For those who are considering posting a reply:

Forum Members:

Please take the time to read the initial post and also take the time to put substance into your post. I'm fine with agreeing and disagreeing, but I dislike posts that don't have any sort of substance what-so-ever.

SuperCell:

I don't want to hear

• "xx just happened, that is likely why loot is slow"
• "the loot system needs time to adjust"
• "that could potentially, possibly, maybe, irreversibly ruin the game permanently"

I've provided answers to all of the following remarks above.

Oh, who am I kidding, they won't reply to this with a meaningful post. They ignored their feedback thread for a week.

Volunteer mods:

I understand it is your duty to close threads, merge threads, and delete meaningless posts. This is a fresh topic regarding multiple things. I would prefer it not merged with another thread, deleted, or edited. I will do my best to keep the thread meaningful, on-topic, and away from flaming.

Obviously since I can't delete posts, I'll rely on you guys to do that. Also note that there were a few tongue-in-cheek things mentioned, but it is all meant in a constructive manner.


Everyone proceed to discuss their thoughts, opinions, etc

Higher level pumps

More pumps

More league loot bonuses

Credit search gold to skipped bases

Daily quests and rewards

Very well written post mate.. I pretty much agrea with all of it.

More levels to mines and pumps has been so obviously missing for the last 5-6 updates, that at every update i couldn't believe they where still not added.

And totally agrea with the less waiting time on spells, army build (did you include less hero sleep time ?) this is enough of a waiting game already with the building and upgrading, and for those it's fine, but attacking should never have so long waiting time as it totally kills the dynamics and just makes everything now a waiting game..
So yes, waiting for upgrades are okay, but lets speed up those attacks for some more fun.

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I can't help having a small suspision about this terible update just being a decoy, simply to take the focus off all the other "flaws" in this game.. Had we gotten the long waited mines upgrade, people would still be very focused about long army,spell,sleep times.. Missing clan war, gobling missions or other things (master minds brilliant idea) that this game really need by now to bring back the fun.. But with this terible update i guess this is now peoples last concern and we will now allmost settle with a game that is at least playable again..
So when they bring a mines boost next week all will be happy and cheering that the terible loot is finally over and we totally forgotten all the other things wrong/missing in the game...Well, at least for a while.

Maybe just me thinking this though :-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeezz

Very well written post mate.. I pretty much agrea with all of it.

More levels to mines and pumps has been so obviously missing for the last 5-6 updates, that at every update i couldn't believe they where still not added.

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Thanks for the reply :)

I'm just trying to start a good discussion. I hope more people hop right in.

I was only expecting it for the past couple updates. I guess I was expecting it so much in this last update that I was positive they did it. Boy was I in for a shock when they rushed the sneak peaks.

Quote:

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And totally agrea with the less waiting time on spells, army build (did you include less hero sleep time ?) this is enough of a waiting game already with the building and upgrading, and for those it's fine, but attacking should never have so long waiting time as it totally kills the dynamics and just makes everything now a waiting game...

So yes, waiting for upgrades are okay, but lets speed up those attacks for some more fun.

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Yeah, I don't mind waiting for defenses to upgrade. But the whole fun in the game is the raiding. We shouldn't be sitting around 'playing' for an hour and only get 2 raids in.

Haha don't get me started on the Heroes!

The Heroes should be allowed to be healed by DE.

They should be usable when upgrading.

These guys already cost an arm and a leg to upgrade let alone 7+ days of no use!

Quote:

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I can't help having a small suspision about this terible update just being a decoy, simply to take the focus off all the other "flaws" in this game.. Had we gotten the long waited mines upgrade, people would still be very focused about long army,spell,sleep times.. Missing clan war, gobling missions or other things (master minds brilliant idea) that this game really need by now to bring back the fun.. But with this terible update i guess this is now peoples last concern and we will now allmost settle with a game that is at least playable again..
So when they bring a mines boost next week all will be happy and cheering that the terible loot is finally over and we totally forgotten all the other things wrong/missing in the game...Well, at least for a while.

Maybe just me thinking this though :-)

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I feel like the update had good intentions with the loot system. However, I too, feel like there is something driving them to not increase resource production rate.

I've been trying to figure out what the reason would be, and I've come up with:

• SoftBank likely has to approve of the changes now
• They are too pre-occupied with a different game
• They are using it to get in people's good favor when they fix the loot

I genuinely believe that they want people to enjoy the game, but something is definitely happening behind the scenes that they won't talk about.

add an extra 200/hour on collectors

I agree with most of the original post as well. But, I would add SC needs to dig a bit deeper to keep this game interesting. Updates that are primarily just unit upgrades get old really fast.

When are we going to see actual clan clashing or anything that would make being in a clan more relevant? The best way to hold on to clan members at the moment is a clan chat members enjoy -- they can find many other clans with comparable troops. It's kind of sad if clan chat may be the only real value of one individual clan over another.

that was beautiful... perfectly written, summed up everything that needs to be changed, and i really do hope they see this... i was thinking, i guess you could say the clashes are going through a "reccesion" haha... no ones got no monies :p haha

Very well written post. Agree with everything! Nice job summing it up, especially the troops/spell cook time - just way too long right now. Awesome!

-add an achievement for leveling collectors
-add level 12 collectors for Th9&10
3600-4000 production rate
150k-200k storage capacity

Great thread :)

Collectors should definetely have more incentive to be upgraded.

Better collectors = More Loot in the system = People are happy :)

The new loot system upgrade is great, now all we need is a loot production upgrade, as the collector system is somewhat outdated.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Exiists

• 1b. Increase loot production to all levels of the collectors, mines, and drills
• 1c. Introduce a week long resource boost for 1 gem to jump start it.

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I agree but would add

• 1d. Introduce a new level of collector/mine

It is silly that with collectors/mines a TH7 can create the same amount of loot as a TH9 but a TH9 has higher costs.
It's just never been updated as the game has progressed.

The proof for 1c. is that the ONLY update without raging "WHAT HAPPENED TO THE LOOT?!?!?!" threads (ok, as MANY threads anyway) was the Birthday upgrade with the cheaply boosted mines and collectors.

I have posted b, c and d on several posts before in one form or another, in the hope that SC are looking.
An achievement might help too of course, but not something I am too fussed about personally.

Great post.

However I am not too bothered by troop & spell train time. I only hope that barracks get a more sustainable gem boost option post update [like spell factory a 4 hr variety]. Time should always favour gems.

Loot however, has gone downhill for months. And SuperCell made it worse by making troops train faster and not add any additional loot with the boost. Blatant fail in basic economics.

Please add 'reduce search fees' to your suggestions. Do not discount how the damage the excessive 'nexts' cause to the global loot available. Which is a double kick in the balls as on bad days everyone hits next even more. Making it even worse for everyone else.

Nice organized thread OP

Supercell doesn't have anything to fix, they said give it 2-3 weeks for the loot update to take full effect.

Probably should've got the exact quote. That part is misleading as Steve didn't actually type those words.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VillageVandal

Probably should've got the exact quote. That part is misleading as Steve didn't actually type those words.

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Here is the exact quote:

Quote:

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We have not been, and are still not, willing to sacrifice the long-term future of Clash of Clans in favor of short-term solutions that have the potential to create an excess of loot. We believe this would irreversibly ruin the game.

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Seems relatively close to my summed up version to me.


As for the rest of the comments, I'll do my best tomorrow (when I have more time) to reply to them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Exiists

Here is the exact quote:[/B]Seems relatively close to my summed up version to me.As for the rest of the comments, I'll do my best tomorrow (when I have more time) to reply to them.

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'Relatively close' is not exact though. Anyways, the loot is relatively close to fine. Leave it as it is.

Excellent post!

Agree with Infernos and heal. hunting for trophies now worries me greatly. (Clan Hunt due soon)

agree wholeheartedly with the initial comments with the view that the new system is good but requires input to be a success. (Mines are obviously still a TH8 relic under the new system)


Troops and spells training times, more excellent suggestions.
Lots of changes have been made in the troop department regarding HP, DPS and such across the board, but training time and cost has never changed.
changes like this have been cited as being necessary for balance but my scepticism says otherwise.

Im not sold on the bigger and better updates part though.
its not because i dont want to see better additions to the game, i just see the work being put in from its creators slowing down.

If this truly is the case and the game is becoming a side thing then maybe letting loose on the flood gates might be a little goodbye? :rolleyes: hate to see it but nothing last forever right? (If the time is invested to do this?)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Inquisitor

Higher level pumps

More pumps

More league loot bonuses

Credit search gold to skipped bases

Daily quests and rewards

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I have been thinking where the gold we use to search goes. If they reduce the search cost for town halls above 7 to 300 FIXED then it will encourage people to upgrade town halls. Also how about instead of the 300 gold vanishing it goes to the player who was skipped?

+1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sinful

Nice organized thread OP

Supercell doesn't have anything to fix, they said give it 2-3 weeks for the loot update to take full effect.

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nah they said about 4 days

Yes they should add at least 1 or 2 lvls to collectors. We already had lvl 11 collectors when upgrades didnt cost as much as they do today, so it's bullcrap when they say it would cause the game to be too easy. But heh you know what, I trust them on that matter, maybe they're right, after all we do manage to get some loot when we take ours fingers out of our asses, so maybe they're right, no need to introduce more loot in the economy, with inactive bases and all.

But what they DO need to add is some dynamics in the economy, so people are more likely to attack each other's storages.
The increased loot limit was good, but the INSANE nerf of lootable ressources (20% to 12-10% for high TH) basically nerfed overall loot by an insane amount (between mathematical 50% and optimist 30% if maxed base can compensate overall nerf with juicy 350-400k when full storages).

The solution would be easy, keep new system but get back with the previous 20% available ressources.
And maybe it'd be too much to lose 400k from 2m, so we'd need some changes when ressource stored is between 1 m and 2M.
That's why I think the BEST solution would be to have something like that:

Keep the old time's 1m stored = 200k loot to prevent endless "next" when attacking (because of endless <100k bases).
Keep the new max loot limits depending on TH level as of today, this was a nice change.

But in between, do something different.
What'd be perfect in my opinion would be :

1M stored = 200k loot -> assurance to have decent bases without having to spend 25 minutes nexting
1M5 stored = 200k loot
2M stored = 200K loot -> to protect semi active player by not losing too much when saving for the 2 first millions
2M5 stored = 250k loot
3M stored = 300k loot
4M stored = 400k loot. -> because saving for expensive stuff must be a risk and to make defenses more important in the process of saving.



That'd be awesome, and smart.
So we wont see it introduced in game as SC dev teams are the stupidest dev team I've seen in my whole gaming history :p

Excellent thread.... Spot on. No body is stating that a lot of loot is locked into th10s. They r not getting attacked by th9s much if at all. Where we were attAcking prior to update. The only way sc will wake up is if the GEM PURCHASES dry up. Which I bet they are. Players see how sc capriciously did away with any value a healer/spell had against th10 it. Stop spending and smarter people will undue these changes. These high loot Th 10s are skewing average loots available up way higher. But that loot isn't avalae to any th9 or th 8s. Due to IT UPGRADE.


Also... The ai on defensive units /cc/heros has. Been tweaked in upgrade. Sc isn't saying it. But they Definitely tweaked them way out of w♥♥♥♥. And the ai on attackers has been tweaked down. Once again balance seems to be way out of w♥♥♥♥. Watch your attackers they seem to be drinking too much by the campfires lol

Personally I think the loot problems stem from the majority of players with high loot to be stolen leaving their town halls unguarded for a free shield. Personally my approach to solving this would be to have your first 100k of gold and elixer along with your first 1k of de stored in your town hall with all available to be taken. This total would have a 10% difference for each town hall level i.e:- th10-100k of each 1kde, th9- 90k of each 900de th8- 80k of each 800de all the way to th1 10k of each. Along with the old loot system a th10 facing a th10 would be able to loot 300k of each and 3k de from storage
I think this would help the game as I believe players would start prioritising guarding their town hall and not gain a 12hr shield for the loss of 1k of gold and elixer. Would you leave your town hall exposed knowing how much you could lose? Also with strong bases not gaining practically instant shields by the time someone potentially attacks them the mines and collectors would also have some juicy takings , raising potential loot and potential opponents.

In my view i dont think so there should be any problem because as higher th u go the loot is becoming easier to get amd cost of buildings and troops are high where as in lower th the cost of builders are low so the ratio of loot and th level is perfect according to cost of buildings.this is my view dont know what other thinks

I feel they are trying to play too safe with their updates, but they are not aware that that is a certain way to lose. Something not exactly said with these words about the updates is that they have been totally uninteresting. They could have put their healing blocking inferno towers idea in the form that ITs have some probability every second to make a target burn, and while the target is burning, it will not heal. That I would think would have made the update more interesting, but instead they bluntly made it to block heal. In addition, making it to block healing always leads to a bad situation in respect to them if they have to change it in the future. I wonder if they thought about that at all.

I could go on about the loot issue, but leave it to only one suggestion: There should be something awarded to the defender. Defending should not be an all-negative event. That alongside better league bonuses to make trophies correlate with loot should go some way, making that aspect of CoC also way more interesting than it is now.

I agree with OP 100% that we need to introduce more loot into the system. Now with the barracks boost even more people are raiding which is great but I am having an impossible time finding any decent look over 100K per at 1600-2000. And lets not forget that the holiday season is coming which means people have time off / more spare time and raids are going to get worse as people are emptying their collectors more often and staying online longer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Exiists

Thanks for the reply :)

I'm just trying to start a good discussion. I hope more people hop right in.

I was only expecting it for the past couple updates. I guess I was expecting it so much in this last update that I was positive they did it. Boy was I in for a shock when they rushed the sneak peaks.




Yeah, I don't mind waiting for defenses to upgrade. But the whole fun in the game is the raiding. We shouldn't be sitting around 'playing' for an hour and only get 2 raids in.

Haha don't get me started on the Heroes!

The Heroes should be allowed to be healed by DE.

They should be usable when upgrading.

These guys already cost an arm and a leg to upgrade let alone 7+ days of no use!



I feel like the update had good intentions with the loot system. However, I too, feel like there is something driving them to not increase resource production rate.

I've been trying to figure out what the reason would be, and I've come up with:

• SoftBank likely has to approve of the changes now
• They are too pre-occupied with a different game
• They are using it to get in people's good favor when they fix the loot

I genuinely believe that they want people to enjoy the game, but something is definitely happening behind the scenes that they won't talk about.

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Totally agrea with you on the heroes aswell, and have been saying the same in this forum several times now :-)
(never got a reply from mods about it though, but that figures)

Unfortunatly not sure i agrea with you as much about supercells good intentions with the loot system though.. It does seem to me that many of their updates show that profit definetly comes before gameplay, where solutions that would be good for the game just wont be added if any risk of hurting profit (even if only short term), but bad solutions will be added without much thought if just they improve the profit.

Odly, (as the game has actually lasted so long, and definetly has potential to last much longer still) they seem to be thinking more and more about short term profit, and by that giving it less and less potential to stay as the top gane for us players.

So yes, maybe they are just ready to burry it for the next game in line or something else is going on behind the scene.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dfgdfgdfg

I feel they are trying to play too safe with their updates, but they are not aware that that is a certain way to lose. Something not exactly said with these words about the updates is that they have been totally uninteresting. They could have put their healing blocking inferno towers idea in the form that ITs have some probability every second to make a target burn, and while the target is burning, it will not heal. That I would think would have made the update more interesting, but instead they bluntly made it to block heal. In addition, making it to block healing always leads to a bad situation in respect to them if they have to change it in the future. I wonder if they thought about that at all.

I could go on about the loot issue, but leave it to only one suggestion: There should be something awarded to the defender. Defending should not be an all-negative event. That alongside better league bonuses to make trophies correlate with loot should go some way, making that aspect of CoC also way more interesting than it is now.

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Have to agrea with you there.. "new" updates have just been too easy, and yes pretty much uninteresting.
So many chances to make small interesting tweaks to fun up things a bit..

For example just look at the santa bombs.. So they give some elexir, blaahh, click on them one time and no more fun in that.. Had they mixed it up a bit, so they gave chance of giving elexir, gold, gems, one blows up in your face, one gives 1 hour boost to builder/mine/pump etc.. Then sudently that would be a fun little thing in itself.
(just an example that there are so many small ways to be putting a bit more fun into the game, that unfortunatly they seem to completly pass on).

Loving the idea with a "chance to burn the target" that would definetly rock and bring in some exitement in attacking those infernos :-)



Also agreeing with there should be a reward for defending.. Easy way to do this would be by using the wasted search gold..
So eigther villages skipped in the search would be rewarded with the search gold for the next click..
..or those next clicks would acumulate in a pot and be reward to the next village with sucessfull deffence.

This would prevent all that "next" gold to just disapere from the game, and at same tame reward good deffences :-)

First of all Exiist, excellent post. You've written most of what's on my mind as well. I don't particulary agree with the troop building time. If loot would be adressed in the way you describe, the reduced training time would increase it's effect to the point SC is afraid of. I'm not saying it would happen, but the whole system is intertwined.

Also, as some other posters have suggested, I would add a decrease of the search cost as a possible solution, but only because it caters to SC personal desire to not add new loot to the game. Personally I think it's useless since the amount of nexting won't decrease if there are no viable targets to loot.

In that regard, here's another quote by Steve you might be interested in:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SuperSteve[Supercell]

We're always very cautious about adding additional resources to the game.

Why?

Throwing in a bunch of new loot can completely unbalance the economy and therefore ruin the game. When we do add additional resources, we do so cautiously... so while it may seem to make sense to say hey, there are not enough resources in the game, let's add new collector levels, it may not be the best way to boost resources for players.

Also keep in mind that higher level upgrades should cost more and take more time and effort to achieve. That level 12 cannon isn't as much of an accomplishment if you didn't have to work hard to get it.

While I totally understand the frustration around not having enough loot I would say that we're going to look into other ways to relieve loot pressures rather than the quick and easy, but not too elegant and potentially game breaking addition of new collector levels at this time.

That's not to say that it won't happen or it is ruled out, just that there are no current plans to do so!

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The thing that puzzles me when reading this is that it's suggested that this 'economy' (which it is not) somehow is unmanageable. With all the data at their disposal it's more than possible to make an effect analysis with buffers based on risk assessments. I want to badly believe that they don't know, but my common sense thinks otherwise.

That being said, Steve has often parries our complaints by asking for concrete suggestions. 'Decrease the search costs' is not enough. Cold hard numbers is what they want. Hard for us without the actual data, but oh well..I will give it a try in a new topic I'll make later this evening.

First of all, I am not trying to complain about the current update, I adjusted, dropped and am looting, farming, and building. However, as a game, I think it is a big fail or maybe not?

Is it possible to build a game that would attract people who would like to fight/win/progress upwards (more challenging fights and more difficult fights maybe), or is that to complex for the masses (i.e. much fewer players wanting to play because many wouldn't understand/being capable of fighting and winning against hard targets) and hence a farming game (many more players because it is simple fights, winning 100k gold over and over so they can upgrade) is where the most profit is?

With this I mean: we have seen several farming games being immensely popular over the past few years. HayDay is one that is very popular and shocking to me, beat revenue over Clash of Clan in some countries. Is this the recipe for a successful game, simple farming? Or in other words, is this what produces the most profit? (if so, I would stay with this recipe if it was my company).

Which leaves us with Clash. Do SC go after the masses (are they seeing more revenue/profit this way)? Or do they try to build a game of fighting and progression (seeing who is best strategically and best fighters) or is this to complex for the masses and hence they stopped/change strategy? Seems like their conclusion is on the first, making it just another farming game (instead of growing crops you win them in easy fights).

However, what we saw is that they tried for the latter with league bonuses 6 - 9 months ago. They wanted people to progress. They wanted people to move to their natural throphy brackets. This was a brilliant system (need more work) that actually moves people upward/makes it a fighting game and not a farming game. For a game like Clash, this is what I would have expected; a fighting game, rewards for winning, progression of who is the best fighter. Instead, it is almost made impossible given the algorithm of gold needed for upgrades and hence leaving the majority of players farming at the same level picking on easy targets.

Oh well, I wish they had stayed with their league system. Worked on that, fine tuned it, different incentives and rewards and penalties. So many things we could have done with this system to make it a reward for win game. So, for future updates.

PICK A GOAL (farming or fighting/progression). Don't dance between the two.


(PS: I have excluded the "gemmers" (people who invest on a frequent basis, not the $10 every now and than) from this discussion. There is obviously an ongoing different game within the game for people who choose to invest a lot in the game, which is a perfectly valid and fine if one can afford it/prioritize this way)

I would be happy if they just got rid of the gold cost to search for bases. Seems a little pointless anyways, as everyone has a cap as to how much money they can store in their bases (if supercell is using the search cost as a gold sink that is). Just my 2 cents :)

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Originally Posted by JacobP

-add an achievement for leveling collectors
-add level 12 collectors for Th9&10
3600-4000 production rate
150k-200k storage capacity

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The first three are listed in the original post. The 4th one, I don't agree with. Care to elaborate on why you feel we need to go back to old caps?

My reasons against it are that once there is proper loot in the system (ie they fix the broken loot production scheme) most people will return to their proper trophy range and then everyone will actually be able to save up slightly easier for those big upgrades. Sure, you'll lose 350k once in awhile but you'll have lots of opportunities to make it back.

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Originally Posted by AntarcticTern

Great thread :)

Collectors should definetely have more incentive to be upgraded.

Better collectors = More Loot in the system = People are happy :)

The new loot system upgrade is great, now all we need is a loot production upgrade, as the collector system is somewhat outdated.

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I'm glad we agree. Once a proper loot production system is in place, I feel like it will fix a lot of the issues we are seeing at this very moment.

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Originally Posted by PhilISuppose

I agree but would add

• 1d. Introduce a new level of collector/mine

It is silly that with collectors/mines a TH7 can create the same amount of loot as a TH9 but a TH9 has higher costs.
It's just never been updated as the game has progressed.

The proof for 1c. is that the ONLY update without raging "WHAT HAPPENED TO THE LOOT?!?!?!" threads (ok, as MANY threads anyway) was the Birthday upgrade with the cheaply boosted mines and collectors.

I have posted b, c and d on several posts before in one form or another, in the hope that SC are looking.
An achievement might help too of course, but not something I am too fussed about personally.

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I agree with that point. It would be nice for upper level town halls to have more collectors and mines. However, I don't know how much more space we have on our bases. If they put too many objects on our base, many of the mid-level devices won't be able to handle the game without lagging excessively.

I too have posted about many of the points elsewhere in the forum. Unfortunately SuperCell sees zero value in constructive critiques.

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Originally Posted by daz258

Great post.

However I am not too bothered by troop & spell train time. I only hope that barracks get a more sustainable gem boost option post update [like spell factory a 4 hr variety]. Time should always favour gems.

Loot however, has gone downhill for months. And SuperCell made it worse by making troops train faster and not add any additional loot with the boost. Blatant fail in basic economics.

Please add 'reduce search fees' to your suggestions. Do not discount how the damage the excessive 'nexts' cause to the global loot available. Which is a double kick in the balls as on bad days everyone hits next even more. Making it even worse for everyone else.

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I wish I could feel the same way, a lot of my heavy attacks rely on spells. Waiting 2+ hours for spells is excessive in my mind. I agree that people who gem it should have an advantage, but all in all I think they could use a time decrease across the board.

Agreed, loot has been pitiful for awhile. Letting those with little loot steal more from those who've been saving it up isn't going to solve the issue. Sure, it'll make it so there is more 'average' loot across the board but it is essentially the same amount of loot in the system. They really need to place a proper loot production system in the game.

I'm on the line about whether search fees should be reduced. Here is why, if they fix the loot system, we are now able to get up to 400k per battle. Assuming the loot production is fixed, it won't be hard to find battles (so we won't be hitting next 50 times to find one raid). This will make the search costs more bearable. I do feel like they need to kick the search costs back into the system though rather than tossing it out like they do currently.

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Originally Posted by Sinful

Nice organized thread OP

Supercell doesn't have anything to fix, they said give it 2-3 weeks for the loot update to take full effect.

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Haha, then they will blame the lack of loot on the next update because "loot is always bad when an update comes out"

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Originally Posted by VillageVandal

'Relatively close' is not exact though. Anyways, the loot is relatively close to fine. Leave it as it is.

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There are a few hundred pages of upsets forumers that say otherwise.

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Originally Posted by shivampaw

I have been thinking where the gold we use to search goes. If they reduce the search cost for town halls above 7 to 300 FIXED then it will encourage people to upgrade town halls. Also how about instead of the 300 gold vanishing it goes to the player who was skipped?

+1

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If you take time to read the initial post, you'll see that is exactly what I mention. :p

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Originally Posted by shivampaw

nah they said about 4 days

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Of course they did. They had no clue how long it would actually take. We could wait here for years to see if it fixes itself, but it won't. They are aware that loot production rate needs a tweak, but something is keeping them from doing this and they won't give us the real reason.

My 2 cents.


I agree the loot production needs an update. Either with incentive to upgrade said collectors (easy fix) or just give us more levels on those collectors. Its been frozen between TH8-9 and TH10 only gets an additional collector of each type, with the exception of DE it isn't much.


Troop build times - I agree, in part. Dragons, I think are fine but PEKKA and Golems take 45 minutes for even one. But if we adjusted those to say 30 minutes then we'd have to adjust dragons. Balloons and wizards have been adjusted and I think they are fine. For witches I won't comment because I haven't used them much.

So personally I think a cap build time of 30 minutes would be nice. I am willing to wait a half an hour but after that my patience is gone.




Spell Times - Same as above. Perhaps going with 20 minutes and 30 minutes. The jump spell should be lowered as its not as good as a rage. Not a big change but it would help.



I think this would have to be done carefully. As reducing the big ticket troops too much would also mean we are facing them more but with the latest update we kind of need to at least include a few big hitters for the average player to participate.

I agree with pretty much everything in this thread; in fact it sums up my exact thoughts on improving the loot system. Could you perhaps link this "Quests that Reward Players (Mastermind's example is perfect)" ?
Thanks

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Originally Posted by NioTheDreamer

My 2 cents.


I agree the loot production needs an update. Either with incentive to upgrade said collectors (easy fix) or just give us more levels on those collectors. Its been frozen between TH8-9 and TH10 only gets an additional collector of each type, with the exception of DE it isn't much.


Troop build times - I agree, in part. Dragons, I think are fine but PEKKA and Golems take 45 minutes for even one. But if we adjusted those to say 30 minutes then we'd have to adjust dragons. Balloons and wizards have been adjusted and I think they are fine. For witches I won't comment because I haven't used them much.

So personally I think a cap build time of 30 minutes would be nice. I am willing to wait a half an hour but after that my patience is gone.




Spell Times - Same as above. Perhaps going with 20 minutes and 30 minutes. The jump spell should be lowered as its not as good as a rage. Not a big change but it would help.



I think this would have to be done carefully. As reducing the big ticket troops too much would also mean we are facing them more but with the latest update we kind of need to at least include a few big hitters for the average player to participate.

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For me it pretty much sums up to when i can have my army ready for the next attack.. Meaning, troops made, spells ready and heroes done sleeping.

And waiting 2-3 hours for next attack is just crazy, this should at max be 1 hour.. So heavy reduction in heroes sleep to 1 hour max, small reduction on spells to fit 1 hour too.. And same with troops.

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Originally Posted by Exiists

Brace yourselves, this is a long post.

Well, I've made numerous posts on what should have happened, but it seems like they've gone ignored. SuperCell has been doing an awesome job at dodging the topic lately, so I'm not making this thread for their benefit. I'm making it so we can have an organized discussion on what we think should change.


I'll start off.

I believe these are the following issues that need to be addressed:

Lack of loot in the system

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I appear to be in the minority on this, but I really don't feel like there is a lack of loot in the system. 2 days ago I was able to get 3 million gold in a little more than 2 hours. Yesterday I spent the same amount of time and got less than a million. I would have the same type of thing happen before the update as well. Some days you get really lucky and others you don't.

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Originally Posted by Exiists

Troop times take too long to build

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Overall I would have to agree with you. The 1 gem boost has been great recently, but it would be nice if a few of the troop times came down a little bit. I'm thinking Wizards and Balloons - 5 min, Healers and Valkyrie - 10 min, Dragon - 20 min, PEKKA and Golem - 30 min. I'm not at Witches yet but I see they take 20 min. That seems okay but I guess you could shave that down to 10 or 15 min.

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Originally Posted by Exiists

Spell times take too long to build

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I'm totally with you on this one. I think spell times should at least be cut in half. Waiting on them is pretty brutal at times and I often skip on some raids because my troops finish up well before my spells do.

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Originally Posted by Exiists

Updates need to be impressive. [last two weren't]

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I don't think every update needs to be mind-blowing, but I think a lot of the potential features you listed would be cool.

Great post op.

i fear we are writing just to ourselves tho, I don't believe supercell even play their own game otherwise they would have worked out that having collector levels maxxed at th8 worked out, but th10 with upgrades costing 8m a IT someone somewhere must have said hey we need to look at this.

its my opinion the clash of clans team is too busy working on boom beach trying to get another cash cow.

big mistake! It's nowhere near as good as clash of clans. All they are doing now is alienating themselves from their customers by not responding to complaints.

i for sure will not be buying any gems for the foreseeable future and I urge everyone to reconsider buying them, it's the only way they will take notice.

Insightful post, and well thought out...wait, OP has been banned? What for? :confused:

good post to bring things onto the table. why is the OP banned?

Very good and well thought out post. However, i don't agree with a few things.

1. Increasing loot production will not really help overall. if you increase lvl 11 production by 1000/hr there is only a 144,000 difference ((3000*24)6=432,000 vs. (4000*24)6=576,000). you can get that in a raid or two max. adding 2 collectors and mines each would be the same as increasing the loot production by 1000/hr. maybe if you got both increased number of collectors and production per hour it would be a little better ((4000*24)8=768,000 per day) but i don't think its a long term solution

2. i can't really comment on this as i haven't fully trophy pushed yet but it would be nice to reduce dragon and wizard cook times but it may make raiding too easy because you'll get attacked by stronger troops more often.

3. Also can't really comment because i don't trophy push but they have reduced it before, but it may make raiding much easier and you'll lose more loot than before.

4. i totally agree they need to bring in fresh content, whether it be new troops or new single player levels or added features to do while you wait for your troops to cook, there's opportunites for supercell to capitalize on this.

great post overall.

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Originally Posted by deifieduandi

good post to bring things onto the table. why is the OP banned?

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Welcome to Iran, you have to accept the law and order.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by deifieduandi

good post to bring things onto the table. why is the OP banned?

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For a post on this thread, I think?!

http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...thread-deleted

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Originally Posted by raaryaj

For a post on this thread, I think?!

http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...thread-deleted

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Nope, he was banned for a now deleted thread that the thread you linked was talking about.

Could have been solved so easy with just a proper reason or an excuse that he was maybe overreacting, but sometime even the smalest title make some guys think they are kings i guess :-/

Hope we see you back again soon exi :-)

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Originally Posted by OJM

Nope, he was banned for a now deleted thread that the thread you linked was talking about.

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Aah...thanks for the info :)

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Originally Posted by l1lvink

I agree with pretty much everything in this thread; in fact it sums up my exact thoughts on improving the loot system. Could you perhaps link this "Quests that Reward Players (Mastermind's example is perfect)" ?
Thanks

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Hey, here's the link :) http://www.tinyurl.com/mastermindquests

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Originally Posted by Mastermind

Hey, here's the link :) http://www.tinyurl.com/mastermindquests

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or just in your signature

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Originally Posted by deifieduandi

or just in your signature

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Hehe very true