Printable View
We just got matched up against a war clan with a 40 member Max TH12 roster that has 18 wins - 0 lossses - 1 draw. A bunch of 100% wins and a bunch of 95% wins
I'm just curious...
Is Supercell turning a blind eye or is there a legitimate belief that this clan is THAT good to be able to consistently win at this 3* rate at max TH12 levels without cheating?
I'll believe it when I see it
I mean...what do you want the forumers to say here? Do you think we know the inner workings of SC? Do you think that SC is actively allowing cheating for kicks and giggles? Do you think that even if they did, they would say so? Sounds like conspiracy theories if I ever heard it. I have no idea why you assume SC is activity allowing it.
Without seeing their attacks, or being in their clan, it's impossible to say if they are really good or illegitimate. I know of a couple th12s who are ridiculously good attackers that 3 star the majority of their war attacks against max bases, so if there was a clan full of people like that, I'd believe they could. Especially with 2 attacks per base.
And how do you know that they 16 other matches in their last 18 wars (which can't view the war details) weren't consisted of TH3's? As stated above, without knowing the breakdown of their win streak your thread is pure negative speculation.Quote:
Originally Posted by iGroot
Quote:
Originally Posted by iCanGoForYears
Quote:
Originally Posted by RhaegarTargaryen
LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix1027
This is disappointing.
Intention of this thread was to raise awareness but that's fine.
We'll just ignore all the clans who have a well known reputation for being scripters / private server users. They obviously don't exist.
All you can do is watch closely and record any evidence you can that they are cheating and then report. There isn't much else you can do. I know you know what to look for. The question is, does the support team?Quote:
Originally Posted by iGroot
I'm not sorry that being rational and thinking critically about a post that stems from emotion with little proof is disappointing for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by iGroot
Unless you have 100% definitive proof then it's pure speculation. You can't make threads like this claiming it to be fact that they're cheating. Innocent until proven guilty is my motto. I don't support cheating at all, and if someone is cheating they deserve to be banned. But everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by iGroot
People are put to death and/or prison for life based on cumulative evidence that is speculative in nature. Circumstantial evidence can be more reliable than direct evidence at times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix1027
I've PM'd all the posters in this thread with proof of another clan that has a reputation for being scripters / private server uses and how they haven't had any bans/punishments.
If anyone else is interested, shoot me a PM. It's time people see the truth.
I'll also be recording this current clan and I'll be searching videos for other well known clans that have the same cheating reputation.
Pm me aswell. Im intrestedQuote:
Originally Posted by iGroot
Not allowed to name/shame. Which is in itself a problem with the forums. Unfortunately there's no other place to discuss these things with the majority of the forum population on Clash.Quote:
Originally Posted by iCanGoForYears
I've PM'd you. I can PM you some more stuff as well.
Ok. But we aren't discussing another clan. You're asking if it's possible for this clan to have this fairly impressive record. I'm still not sure what you hope to gain from this thread. If you see illegal activity, report it. Pretty sure discussing illegal activities is against the forum rules anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by iGroot
The intention of this thread is to highlight thatQuote:
Originally Posted by RhaegarTargaryen
1) Many high level clans know which clans script / use private servers. There's Line chat rooms with people that share videos of this stuff. People are constantly reporting it to support and nothing is ever done. These clans are above level 15, some of even above level 20.
2) Modding clans post up Youtube videos. The opposing clans put up youtube videos. There's plenty of people in this forum that know EXACTLY what I'm talking about
3) It's easier for you to believe a TH12 clan can 100% 40 max TH12s rather than private server / scripting use? Do you really not know how prevalent private server use is? It's used a LOT.
4) Maybe forum rules should be changed then. What's the point of battling this type of stuff if you can't openly discuss it. I haven't named/shamed. I'm only trying to bring awareness that there's a number of high level clans that get away with it despite reports.
What else would you have me do?
Support doesn't do anything.
EDIT:
I also didn't make a claim that they cheat.
I asked this:
Is Supercell turning a blind eye or is there a legitimate belief that this clan is THAT good to be able to consistently win at this 3* rate at max TH12 levels without cheating?
So pick one. Either they cheat and their existence is Supercell turning a blind eye or being ignorant or that Supercell knows of their existence and doesn't think they cheat.
I've long said I wish there was more severe punishment to clans for cheating, not just individual accounts (a 14 day break from war isn't enough). Once a certain number of cheating players have been connected to a clan, reset the clan to level 1 and reset the war record to 0-0. I chatted with a guy the other day who joined our clan and who had an account he was cheating with, had lost 7 prior accounts. It wasn't in our clan, but I kicked him anyway. Assuming he was telling the truth, it was a good example of how the individual punishment, while necessary, isn't enough.
Please don't name and shame. Don't give mods any reason to close the thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by iCanGoForYears
And no, that is not the clan I'm talking about currently.
My clan doesn't war much and aren't high level so I didn't realize this was still a major issue. Would be interested in some of the info you've PM'd OP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2222
This post got me thinking, I like the idea of resetting a clan but what about somehow "flagging" people from that clan? Adding an asterisk or something after their name and limiting the clans they can join? Maybe something like any clan they join can only war against clans with other asterisked players or limits the level the clan can be?
It’s very disappointing that this kind of behaviour seems to get ignored and that when someone makes the forum aware that they are initially slammed as being a “conspiracy theorist”.
We should be thanking the OP for being willing to stick his neck in the noose in the interests of fair play.
Those who shrug this away as being a problem are likely the ones who can’t play a “clean game” themselves.
I do, however, think that SC would love to stamp out these issues but that it is akin to police trying to completely stamp out drug trafficking.
To the OP, thanks for creating awareness and I hope you get somewhere by posting this.
The reason I think there needs to be clan punishment is because when accounts are banned forever, that account is gone but the clan goes on, often with the same players cheating again with different accounts. Punish the clan too. I'm not talking about punishing a clan because a cheating player was in the clan once. When SC issues a ban, check to see what clans the banned accounts have been in, any clan that crosses over a certain number, reset them. I'd also love SC to pay an employee to search online and punish the clans that openly discuss the fact that they cheat. It is common knowledge in some circles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tgo0
Discussing cheating isn't prohibited and can be helpful, like telling players what to look out for and how to report (OP doesn't need that advice). What is prohibited is suggesting any particular clan is cheating or discussing how to cheat. Making players aware of a problem is ok, but making it easier for them to do it themselves is not (naming any sort of cheating program or provider would be an example of that).Quote:
Originally Posted by RhaegarTargaryen
This is precisely what should happen to clans that cheat.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2222
I'm in total agreement. What I was saying was meant as in addition to what you proposed. Reset the clan but also punish the people who are in it but aren't banned. That's where the asterisk post name (Tgo0* for example) and only allowing them to war against other clans (even if they change clans; under the assumption of your clan reset proposal) that have other asterisk'd players.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2222
If you just got matched with them why not wait until you see them in action to accuse them of cheating? I saw a clan a while ago (6+ months) with a lot of 100% destruction rate wins in a row. I thought it suspicious as well and reported them to support. A few days later they got back to me saying that it seems they are in fact that good. And while I don't know how they determine that I do believe that supercell is in fact interested in shutting down those that cheat and destroy the integrity of their game.
Interesting discussion But I feel we all need to be cautious when commenting on SC's activities in this regard (eg SC turning a blind eye...). We do not know, nor will ever know, how many times they intercede to shut down these clans/clan members.
Think of it like speeders on a highway while some get caught others continue to speed evading enforcement however the latter seem to be the only ones we talk about. The bottom line it is not in SC's interest as a company nor gaming business to have these activities taking place.
We matched against them a few weeks ago as well. We got against a script/mod clan every 2-3 weeks lol But I'll record it and drop it on youtube. The thread wasn't really about the proof, it was just more that there are these clans that are high level clans, their leaders/members are the same, there's plenty of reports to support, and they still exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Giles3
You're right. Although there was some rumblings of bot bans / private server shut downs a couple months ago. However, there's no proof that anything is being done from a player side because we see these prominent clans that have been doing it since last year and haven't had any punishments thrown their way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unfettered
All I gotta say is good luck...
I can see how people in some clans never run into this and don’t realize it is such a big issue. But, trust some of us, there are clans that blatantly cheat and make no secret of it. And continue to get away with it... Month after month after month.
You can’t always be sure in an individual clan war as there are some clans that are amazingly talented. But when clans make no secret of it in social media, well known discord servers, etc or when they are perma banned from having any of their players or alts competing in the external leagues.... it seems like something could be done.
It’s been a long time since the last time we were matched with modders. I don’t really understand how this kind of private server runs, but I heard people are using that too.
I think monitoring CWL C1 tier would be a good start. Those kinds of cheat are very frustrating to good fair play clans. For now, all you can do is report this through in-game support and hope they will take appropriate actions. Life goes on...
you might find out during the war the people in that clan have more than 10 fingers in their hand, perhaps 30 or 40 fingers... not that they are cheating they just happen to have more fingers,
Hate to disagree with you 2222, but rule 6 states that discussion of illegal activities isn't allowed. So either that's a poorly written rule, or it should be enforced.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2222
Of course SC have been knowing this for a long time. Especially, if you see LaLoon style with eight fingers deploying balloons and the locations are so accurate. SC should have banned this software type year ago, this is no fair if you play by real hands.
Why don’t YOU want to discuss it?Quote:
Originally Posted by RhaegarTargaryen
It used to be enforced that way, but more recently there has been a distinction between discussing cheating in concept vs. discussing it in a way that actually describes how to do it. The former has been allowed.Quote:
Originally Posted by RhaegarTargaryen
Because it quickly leads to accusations against clans when there is no formal proof - as in this thread. There is also nothing that can be done through reporting it on forums - it has to go through support, which it what I've been saying this whole time. Read my past posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqwook
Fair enough. I can accept that the rule is outdated.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2222
[QUOTE=RhaegarTargaryen;12013586]Because it quickly leads to accusations against clans when there is no formal proof - as in this thread. There is also nothing that can be done through reporting it on forums - it has to go through support, which it what I've been saying this whole time. Read my past posts.
OP hasn’t accused anyone! All he has done is pose a question. No one in the thread has named or accused anyone.
This is an issue that SHOULD be discussed in the right manner (as it currently is). Stop trying to throw cold water on a legitimate topic
My clan has 6 losses, 44 wins in our war log for our last 50 wars. Currently on a 10 war win streak. Previously, we had a 20+ win streak. 18-0 isn't shocking. If we took our best TH12s and started a new clan, we would probably have a similar streak.
Note: we only have 7-9 TH12s that we war with, and it's always the top bases that determine the outcome of our wars. Of course, if the lower end does better, we have more success at the top end (extra attacks and scouts, etc
It's important to distinguish your situation from my original post.Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmk604
This clan, among others, has a 100% destruction rate in all max TH12 clan wars. Not once, not twice, but several times. A lot of 95%s as well.
Are your TH12s clearing enemy TH12s every war? Now consider they're doing this against FORTY anti 3 star layouts with maxed defenses. You think that's legit?
Pretty sure I can post my opinion on the forums too, thank you very much. And he has accused this clan and/or SC for allowing cheating. Even if he didn't name a clan specifically, it's pretty clear his thoughts on the matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqwook
As long as there are competive game folks will be looking for an edge. As they say If you ain’t cheatin’ You ain’t tryin’
but serously if you think the clan is cheating report them. Is SC find evidence they will get bans if they don’t they won’t. But either way SC won’t report back to you.
Could be legit. We have tons of 95% and one 100% in our current win streak. It's true we don't have 40 TH12s, but if we had more, results wouldn't be any different, as long as they are the same caliber of attackers.Quote:
Originally Posted by iGroot
95% or 100% in 40 max th12 wars is much different than 95 or 100% in 40 mixed th wars. In mixed wars the bottom half or more is almost guaranteed 100%, where it is not the case in max th12 wars.Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmk604
can I visit OP Clan
PM me groot
Except that your post wasn’t an “opinion”. It was an “ I’m Daddy, stop being naughty” post designed to somehow stop the topic being discussed. Why wouldn’t you want to discuss a relevant topic? There are only a few reasons I can think that you wouldn’t....Quote:
Originally Posted by RhaegarTargaryen
Modding is still happening and when someone has more then 10 fingers and then somehow drops the warden with haste’s at the same time, question marks start to be raised, I’m interested to see what clan it is, PM me the clan tag if you can, thanks.
On another note, champs1 will be an eye opener for this kind of activity since they will be more in the spotlight
I gave you my reason, and it was a very valid one. Calling out clans, even if you don't name them, because they are successful without proof is childish. Get over the fact that clans/players may be better than you without cheating. You just seem to have selective vision when it comes to reading specific areas of a post and disregarding what you don't want to read.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqwook
Your reason WAS invalid. You event admitted that the OP hadn’t specifically called anyone out. If I commented on every sentence you have written, it would be a very long arduous post that no one wants to read (let alone me wanting to write it) so it isn’t a matter of being “selective”.Quote:
Originally Posted by RhaegarTargaryen
Simple fact of the matter is that the issue is VERY RELEVANT! You are entitled to your opinion but assuming much in everything you have posted.
By the way, usually people trying to cover up where they are wrong resort to “I’m entitled to my opinion” or calling others “childish” when they know they have come to a “dead end”.
Allow a real, without toxicity or naming, discussion of a REAL issue that plagues high end wars. People need to be made aware of it regardless of what you say to derail a healthy discussion.
I'm sure there are clans out there that cheat, but I'm not so entitled as to think that every clan that is successful or that can maintain high streaks is cheating. I've said that from the start. I'm also not going to buy in to the statement that SC is actively ignoring those clans and reports of them cheating. You are the one that started insinuating that I must have a diabolical reason for not seeing a point to discussing of this topic, so don't start with the "I'm at a dead-end" nonsense. Furthermore, if you do buy in to that SC is ignoring cheating, then you're probably playing the wrong game. And if you buy into that every clan with large streaks like the clan OP mentioned is cheating, then I'll assume you're just petty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqwook
Where did anyone say that “successful or high streak clans are cheating”? Likewise “where did anyone say that SC are ignoring those clans and the reports of them cheating”?Quote:
Originally Posted by RhaegarTargaryen
Quote please.
Did you even read the first post of the thread? lol I'm guessing not. Go read it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqwook
OP asked a question. He didn’t accuse anyone. Now who is being “selective” or twisting an interpretation to suit their own view point?Quote:
Originally Posted by RhaegarTargaryen
Ive read the first post many times. I ask again. Where are the direct quotes of your previous insinuation? Try to stick with specifics when arguing a view point. It will serve you better.
The OP gave 2 options: The clan is "THAT" good, or SC is turning a blind eye. Now, English isn't my first language, but that sounds like he's in such disbelief that the clan could have that record that SC must be ignoring reports. I assumed was the purpose of the thread, which is why I've been arguing this entire time that I believe that the clan could be THAT good, but I don't believe that SC is actively ignoring reports.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqwook
If there is another meaning behind his post that you see, please let me know.
This rule was announced softened by supercell with the introduction of the Psychic Octopus and the FairPlay Initiative. You’d have us in the dark ages making up stupid names like fluffy bunnies again? :saywhat:Quote:
Originally Posted by RhaegarTargaryen
Sorry but the fact that English is not your first language is the reason. If OP was accusing sc of turning a blind eye or accusing the specific clan that they can only be that good by cheating then I would agree with you but HE IS NOT. He even said in a subsequent post that he was disappointed because he was only trying to raise awareness.Quote:
Originally Posted by RhaegarTargaryen
We we need to stop posting so that the real issue that the OP was trying to highlight doesn’t get buried in posts. The issue needing highlighting is that some clans are cheating and playing against the TOS. Awareness of the issue is necessary.
i'm curious what the top th12 players' average destructions and 3 star rates are in those fair play elite war leagues? before and after the 3rd inferno update? this should give us an educated estimation of how good THAT player or clan should be?
So to what end does discussion need to go? Isn't it SC's policy to report through support? Isn't that what people are already doing? I'm not sure what additional raising awareness has to do with reporting through support, unless SC support is the problem, which is what the OP was saying. I disagreed with OP's stance on SC support being the problem because it doesn't make sense for a game to allow cheating since other players will quit if it becomes a serious issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqwook
It nearly came to critical mass prior to the octopus, many did quit due to Xmod and one barb drop scout attacks. Many many more were close to quitting. It is a cancer on the game. The new breed uses a new way and we all must be watchful. Support has earned a less than helpful reputation when it comes to reporting.Quote:
Originally Posted by RhaegarTargaryen
I am rather new to this topic and just did some research.
Since CWL only allows one attack, does everyone agree that this "script" attack would have a very low success rate?
Maybe the solution is to allow one attack only in regular war?
Your premise for CWL is correct. Hopefully it doesn’t get so bad where they have to change regular wars. I kind of like them how they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastth11
not sure why you are so fixated on arguing against this topic, while you even admitted the issue does exist? if you care so much about forum rules maybe you should try to become an moderator so you actually have the power to interpret and enforce them?Quote:
Originally Posted by RhaegarTargaryen
Didnt know was this bad... i am in a th12 clan and didnt see nothing close to this yet, but is just my second week there....
Lets hope that i never will need to face something like this.
The more competitive a setting you are in the more likely you are to encounter this. It isn’t nearly as bad now as it once was, but it shouldn’t ever be allowed to get that bad again.Quote:
Originally Posted by WerewolfXS
My man, just read through this entire thread, and from the get-go, I found myself nodding and agreeing with sqwooks posts, and shaking my head in confusion at yours. It really did seem you were a closet modder and were trying to derail the thread. (I know this is not true, and you just misunderstood the OP as sqwook pointed out - as English is not your mother tongue.)Quote:
Originally Posted by RhaegarTargaryen
We do need to raise awareness on this issue, I do not encounter cheating too often, but it does happen, and planting our heads in the sand will just exacerbate the problem. In my opinion, there needs to be a platform where we can submit loads of evidence of cheating players and clans, and then these people investigate and ban. Support is not this platform. It all depends on how far SC are willing to go. It is like the drug trade, as has been stated though. It's impossible to stamp it out completely, there are just too many people doing it. But many are sharing their cheating publicly, and sharing videos etc. Surely there's a way to at least stop the cheaters crowing about their cheating to their cheatingly cheating friends. Damned cheats.
Our clan runs 25/25 maxed wars. Last war we put up 10 3 stars which was exceptional for us. The war before we had just 1 triple. I personally don’t think a fair play clan is able to put up such high numbers as the op states if all the bases in the war are max or close to it. On the other hand our clan has never been rolled over to the extent described, so there may not be a large number of cheating clans out there. It is a certainty that there are some though who do use private servers in order to cheat.Quote:
Originally Posted by pppla
Just to add to Fear the Patty's comment - my clan runs between 12-15 TH12's, most of them maxed, coming up against the same type of opposition. If we get 2/3 three stars on maxed 12 bases (with maxed heros and offence), thats a lot... so any clan consistently 3 starring max 12's I would be VERY suspect on. Even the best attack needs a bit of luck, so many things can go wrong and your attack will be over against maxed 12's. Why are we even debating whether this cheating exists? It does exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by FearThePatty
Man same thing happened to our clan some time before.We faced a clan who cleaned us out with bowitch only.We run anywhere between 5-10 th12s and man we got demolished.Never before and now many wars after (using the same bases) we get like 1-2 th12 triples on our side.We suspected they were cheating as they were 3* us in first try.(5 out of 7 th12 triples were on first try).Bowitch is never this succesful and this is after addition of 3rd inferno.We lost by a margin and forgot about the war. Sucks to say this but there are a lot of clans who still cheat on private servers mainly.
I've read the whole thread guys and disappointingly it just ended up in a fruit throwing match which isn't really going anywhere. I'm not sure it ever was really as conjecture about cheating while all trying hard not to break forum rules doesn't really make for a in-depth and open debate. As a closing note anyone who thinks Supercell are done targeting cheating is really barking up the wrong tree.