Wasted Dark elixir

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Originally Posted by zellnera

I am not sure if you where around as we get elixir for walls. We have had the exact same discussion as now.

Fact is that at the higher town halls DE is the most unbalanced resource we have. I find it really funny what you all get on the field to get your idea as the one and only. Your example is far from possible because even if you would raid only gold and elix and get all your DE only thru your drills all your DE upgrades would be done earlier.
Fact is we all have no data and do only assumptions. Only SC knows how much DE is in the economy and also how much is lost. So that means only they can know if it would harm or not
And to get the other question it is of coarse depending on the prize and I round place it as high as 100k

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At high levels, DE is very unbalanced...and why is it unbalanced? Because the people with nothing to spend DE on who maxed their heroes already took advantage of the situation where people can't dump DE into walls lol.

Elixir for walls is quite a bit different, because there were LOTS of people who had maxed out their elixir upgrades for a given TH level FAR before they had maxed out gold upgrades. The proportion of those folks to the proportion of folks who max their heroes prior to maxing gold and elixir upgrades isn't nearly the same (and to SC, the change made sense...because at lower levels people were stopping their progress in order to farm gold for walls before advancing, so to incentivize advancement which is in SC's best interest, they let you spend your elixir on walls too).

How does dumping DE into walls incentivize advancement if we're talking about people who are maxed on heroes? It doesn't, they're already at the last stages of base building, and in fact it actively discourages them from spending real money to upgrade walls.

I was about to open a new topic until I found this so I’ll just post my ideas here, Darien said they had thought of it but thought it would lack the economy for farmers still farming hero’s, that’s a good fair point, so how about have it half way, make it you have to have a minimum of 100k (or maybe 120k, but whatever) dark in storage’s currently to be able to upgrade a wall with dark, (assuming it would be 50k dark for a blue wall, 40 for white and so on). That would at least leave almost the cap still up for the taking for when your up for a defence, so it won’t be hurting the economy for the farmers still.

I have full Heroes and full DE storage 100% of the time, along with full DE in treasury. I just don't use it, and everyone who attacks me with lower level heroes have a shot at stealing a flat ~5k DE plus the bonus from the raid. I am one of the people dumping DE into the economy because everything I generate on my drills go to someone else or my troops.

I can farm dark elixir very easily. Now imagine that all people who are on the same stage of the game as me are able to use all their dark elixir somehow other than lab and heroes. Now, where the people who were farming my base will be getting their dark elixir from?

Now we have a scenario where you can spend dark elixir to upgrade walls, you will NEVER see me with a full DE storage again, all you are going to be able to steal from me is gold. And I believe that will be the case with many players. The consequences might be game killing.

Now you say, well, isn't it the same with gold and elixir? If people dump those on walls, where is the farming coming from?

Well, dark elixir farming is harder, and plays a major role on the game as it is the resource to upgrade heroes. I don't see people quitting because they need to upgrade 3 levels of their archer tower, but if you see your Hero on level 10 and you need to get to 30 at TH 9, and then you look to the future and realize there are 30 more levels, until 60... and you just cant find a base with DE to loot, you will stop playing, its game changing.

You will not be without any DE most of the times it all depends how high the cost of a wall is.

lvl13 walls are 5 mio each so above the max raid limit so if a wall would cost e.g 100k DE you would provide enough DE.

I am also one of that person with full storage, treasure and drills but so are most of the people surrounding me. I guess it also depends where you attack I am in legend so most people I see have also full DE -> therefor every raid we take DE out of the economy this is a factor that you all regret.

So yes maybe if you as TH12 are low in league and yes in my onion even T2 is low you would harm lower level TH.


We could make an incentive for Legend league out of it, lets say you can buy walls with DE if you reach e.g 5400, as you all fear the negative effect for lower TH. This might get some more TH12 up.

I guess no one liked my idea then, it woulda kept both sides of the argument happy, but hey whatever

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Originally Posted by WinterMech

I am sorry Sakat, by I agree with dmoore1998 here.

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Nothing to be sorry about. We're here to exchange our points of view so thanks for sharing yours!

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Originally Posted by WinterMech

6 months is very long, enough to kill off a game with millions players. And that's a maybe, it could be worse....

if you want to propose this change to happen, then you should argue with "why it is beneficial to all players now and how is it beneficial to the profit of SC?", not "I am overflowing DE so I like DE able to upgrade walls". Such argument / reasoning just doesn't cut it.

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I already wrote before my argument but I'll explain again with more details.


I totally agree that allowing players to use DE to upgrade walls only concerns a small minority of players. But this isn't an argument. After all adding more level 13 walls also concerns very few percent of the players, still Supercell added them. So quantity doesn't make an argument right or wrong.

Also I understand the concern wrote by some above that it could have a negative impact on the "whole economy". But I can't totally agree with that one.
At first TH12 can't attack or be attacked by bases under TH10 and actually in practice it's very unlikely for a TH12 to find a TH10 with interesting ressources. So this wouldn't impact "the whole economy" (as long as impact there should be). Okay, one can say that allowing using DE to upgrade walls concerns every TH levels because when TH12 are rushing for DE that has an impact on TH11 who will be more likely to attack more TH10 who will go on TH9.... But after all when TH12 was released all the maxed TH11 were looting DE again to up their heros and lower TH still survived to it. So this discussion mostly concerns TH12 and TH11 only.

Now, why I'm saying this would be beneficial to all players?
At the very beginning such a change would have impact, yes. It would require some times (I wrote 6 months but maybe it would take less) to have more fully maxed bases. Having more fully maxed bases would then help other players to upgrade at a faster pace. Which means this would result in more fully maxed bases with also plenty of DE to loot, increasing the speed even more. Etc... And when players have too much ressources but nothing to upgrade what to they do? They use their books or gem. Which is beneficial to SC. Have you ever wondered why during the first season of CWL we had troops event with bonus and war rewards doubled? Everyone in my clan had their storages and CC full with no builder available and most of them are casual players... Just the perfect time for a great 5x value offer ;)

This is why, altough on the short term it might have an impact on the DE available, after a while this will actually benefit most players and SC.

I wrote "6 months" which seems like a very long time. But if a player is concerned by the DE economy situation I described above, it means he's already used to count by months of gaming so six months isn't that a huge deal. I highly doubt there are a lot of people who managed to up to TH12 with maxed dark troops and level 60 heros in a few months.... About that number, please not that I don't have access to SC big datas, so this "6 months" is more to illustrate. It could be twice that time, but it could also be half of it. Altough considering how long it takes my clan members to up, I think 5-6 months is a good estimation. Anyway, this is just an estimation and the main point here is that this would be exponential helping more and more players to upgrade at a faster and faster pace. Goes in the same direction taken by SC during the last year as all the new content that was released since Clan Games was oriented to push players toward TH12. So in from that point of view it would make sense to SC strategy.


Another important point is that allowing players to use DE on walls doesn't necessarly means it would become interesting to farm DE for walls. If one wall costs 200k DE nobody would farm DE just for that wall and I doubt one wall would cost 1k DE either. So how much DE should one wall cost to keep a good balance? (#1)
Limiting this to maxed heros bases wouldn't really make sense as having maxed heros is more important than upgrading level 13 walls. But what about limiting to a certain X number walls per day? (#2)
Or the other solution already wrote in this thread, allowing players to up walls with DE only when they have more than a certain amount of DE? (#3)


I'm sure SC has talented people who can find the best answers to #1, #2 and #3 with the huge data they have on millions of players. So no need to debate over this hypothetical values. But what I do know is that in the current situation when a player has nothing left to spend his DE on and with still walls to max, the best way to do so is to trade DE for Elixir by farming with Dark Troops. And this is DE completely taken out of the economy.

Ouch, to much to read lol, I just think it’s very simple, 50k a wall (blue wall) and you can only use dark if your currently holding 50% of your storage’s at least, so that been 120k dark, that way there’s still always dark for the taking

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Originally Posted by WinterMech

I don't think you understand the effect it has on economy.

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lol guy I am old enough have an Master degree and work in a high tech company holding some patents so yes I sure I understand the economy of a mobile game. I playing this game now more then 6 years you can believe I understand where resources are coming from.

So you are asking my why to do it for the max TH12 players I could ask you why not?
I build many of my walls with gold (elix walls where not allowed the idea was even ruled out) and now it is normal to do so.
I was there when you could lightning the DE storage and also see all complains when this was ended.
I paid the full prize and update time of every single structure, and see all the complains when the price was reduced especially as we seen a reduced cost of walls.

I do not care about that, that it is the prize you pay if you playing the game for so long.

And yes Darian`s statement is right it would have an impact to the amount of available DE as everything else also the add on of 10 Hero level had an impact to the amount of available DE, the question is more if the effect would be negative and we would see an DE depression.

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Originally Posted by WinterMech

Personally, I don't see how SC will put a research team to find what is the right balance. Isn't it way more easier to keep things the same? I mean what's wrong with Gold and Elixir to upgrade Walls? There is nothing wrong with that, and allowing DE to upgrade it create more issue than not. So why do that? I mean I would rather has SC trying to give new contents rather than changing things that always works without issue.

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If SC would have done that we would not have elix for walls, we would wait hours for our troops and yes even the best we would loose our army at the training fields after you where raided. The status quo you mentioned here is the result of many changes already happen and some of them change every update it is called balancing changes

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Originally Posted by WinterMech

Let me stop your right there.
It isn't a statement that you can agree or disagree there. As I quote below from what Darian said in recent AMA on reddit, read the last statement, allowing DE to upgrade Walls will have an affect on overall economy.

It doesn't matter you agree or disagree, but this statement came from Darian that represent SC, there is no argument there. This idea will have an affect on the game economy. PERIOD.

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You misunderstood.

When I wrote that I can't totally agree with that one, I am not talking about if there would be an impact or not. All what follows in my posts is saying that there would be an impact: negative at first (short term) but positive then (long term).
I'm referring to accepting this fact as an argument against the idea of using DE to up walls. For the reasons explained under which illustrate that it would not necessarly be a negative things for the economy.

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Originally Posted by WinterMech

If you want to give an idea that you want SC to listen, how about an idea that will give ZERO effect on the DE economy. Even for few days, if you are talking about months then you might as well stop hoping it will come.

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Please let's leave it to SC to decide if my idea is relevant or not, but if you have an idea that will give ZERO effect on the DE economy feel free to share it!

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Originally Posted by WinterMech

As things stand right now, you could use full Dark Elixir troops and farm for Gold and Elixir to upgrade Walls. The economy will stay the same. Therefore, I don't see any need to allow DE to upgrade Walls which will affect the overall DE economy.

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Sure and I never claimed the opposite! Try to read what I wrote instead of jumping straight away on your keyboard. I'm just saying that, for the reasons I explained in my previous post, I could be a base "which has almost no DE to loot" for a shorter period of time than the one I will be as things stand right now.

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Originally Posted by WinterMech

Personally, I don't see how SC will put a research team to find what is the right balance.

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Two words: Big Data. Don't worry if SC collects that much data about players it's not to let it sleep in the clouds.

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Originally Posted by WinterMech

Isn't it way more easier to keep things the same?

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Of course it would be easier. But between keeping things the same because it's easier or figuring a way to improve the game experience I'll go for the second one even if harder.