Wasted Dark elixir

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Originally Posted by Skrags

I do understand what you mean, and I am sympathetic to ideas to aid 'end game' player participation, which is why, for example I'm such an advocate for SC to dilute the 'Clouds' issue, even though I'm not a trophy pusher myself.

But, trying to be devil's advocate here, there was approximately 30 months (2.5 years) between the late 2015 announcement of TH11, and the TH12 update.
It's been 6 months since the June 2018 announcement of TH12, and some experienced players are already asking for DE to be used on walls......:saywhat:

It's not for me to judge others on how they play the game, or how they progress their own bases... each to their own, and good luck to you all, but I can't help feeling that 'you make your bed, you lie in it':thumbsup:

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I know what you mean, but honestly you do not need any gems to be at the no upgrade left point at the moment. I do not say that I do not buy gems sometimes but with hammers, books and portions you can speed up a lot.
So at the moment I have ~24 days of lab left (siege machine) and ~7 days until the last builder will be finishing the last pump or mine

We have had this point also in the 2,5 years of TH11 more then once. I can not remember how many month my builder where idle the light in the lab was shut off. All of us where waiting for the next batch of walls to do or the next level of a random troop or defense building to upgrade.

Th12 is not done yet we will see more then once new content to it until we might get th13. I expect that after the December update we will have some trap level and maybe the blower or bomb tower to upgrade. I don't believe that we will get the 3rd batch of walls.

SC promised to fix the cloud issue more then once so I have no high hope that they ever fix it. But the clouds helps somehow. I can let the search run and do something else without to focus on the screen much. As soon the sky opens I can do a raid and then repeat.

If people start using de on wall then there will be lack of DE for loot. Which will rest into slow process for many players.

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Originally Posted by zellnera

Looking in my log I have done 10 raids yesterday -> 4k DE in average of my enemies + 4500 daily bonus + 2.4k per win => ~66k DE that I take out of the economy.

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If DE were allowed to be dumped into walls, then you wouldn't have been able to steal 66kDE from yesterday because some/most/maybe all of those targets would have had very little DE available (because they dumped it into walls). Since you don't need DE, you see it as wasted. But what about everyone else yesterday who did 10 raids for 66kDE and they still haven't maxed their DE upgrades? They need that 66kDE and it's not wasted for them.

Honestly, I compare that with the times after the th12 update where we all needed to get 20 more DE hero levels. Even there I could fill my DE storage in 4 days meaning around 60k per day. I do not know where you raid but in legend league DE was always enough.

I did not say it is wasted I say it is taken out of the economy that is not the same!


You get resource in the cycle by mine, pumps and win and daily bonus. You remove resources out of the cycle by buildings lab troops search costs and the resources and bonus you raid and can not be stored.

So the 66k were taken out of the economy cycle. Maybe that makes it more clear the 40k stolen by other reduce the total amount of DE available and the 24k (bonus) are never make it in the cycle

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Originally Posted by zellnera

Honestly, I compare that with the times after the th12 update where we all needed to get 20 more DE hero levels. Even there I could fill my DE storage in 4 days meaning around 60k per day. I do not know where you raid but in legend league DE was always enough.

I did not say it is wasted I say it is taken out of the economy that is not the same!


You get resource in the cycle by mine, pumps and win and daily bonus. You remove resources out of the cycle by buildings lab troops search costs and the resources and bonus you raid and can not be stored.

So the 66k were taken out of the economy cycle. Maybe that makes it more clear the 40k stolen by other reduce the total amount of DE available and the 24k (bonus) are never make it in the cycle

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Let's take a hypothetical example. Suppose that you have 0 DE and a wall section costs 60 kDE. You do your 10 attacks, earn 66 kDE, then dump it into a wall. Boom - none of it never makes it into the cycle.

Addressing your example of when TH12 was released - every Hero upgrade costs much more than the % cap on DE storage. So many people saving for those extra 20 levels has >4kDE available to be stolen. What's a fair price for a wall section purchased with DE? In general, it seems DE:E value ratio is about 1:100, so 40k-60k would be fair. But even if it was 80k, everyone will be dumping into walls before reaching the max % loot cap, therefore less is available to be stolen.

On the short term you might see it as ressources taken away from the economy. But actually and especially on the long term it might benefit the economy. I give an example to illustrate:


I'm done with my heros so now I mostly need gold/elixir to farm my walls. As I can't use DE to up walls, it is pretty useless (except once every two weeks to finish the last troops). So I'll just keep on farming ressources for my walls with dark troops, which keeps DE storage pretty low. I used to farm with goblin knife, now I just spam valkyries. This is also means DE being taken out of the economy (somehow I trade DE for elixir).

If I were able to use DE to up my walls it would take less time to do so. Which means I would earlier become a base "that really doesn't need ressources anymore" or, in other words , a base with a lot of DE to loot.

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Originally Posted by WinterMech

Consider this example:
Some TH12 already maxed every Gold and Elixir upgrade (including Walls). But this guy has 30 levels of Heroes uprade to do (all DE required).

Then he come and requested that Gold and Elixir to be made available for Heroes upgrade. He doesn't mind if the upgrade cost 12 Million Gold or Elixir, since he is overflowing Gold and Elixir anyway with nothing to do.

From his point of view, he got every right to ask for this change. But from the big picture, it doesn't make sense at all. The change he requested will change the economy landscape that Gold and Elixir, nobody would be farming DE anymore.

This is the exact same condition of the request to put DE into walls upgrade. Just because you don't need those DE, it doesn't mean this request is legit or reasonable. From the big picture point of view, it will affect the economy, there is no argument there, regardless of how much you take away from the economy at this point, it's pointless to talk about it.

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The difference is that most players who end up in the situation we are talking about in this topic will have everything (defenses, troops and heros) maxed way before being done with walls.

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Originally Posted by WinterMech

I had edited my post as I thought it might mislead there. I understand you have the right to ask for something as you are in the forum. What I truly meant was, it doesn't mean what you ask is legit or reasonable.

Consider this example:
Some TH12 already maxed every Gold and Elixir upgrade (including Walls). But this guy has 30 levels of Heroes uprade to do (all DE required).

Then he come and requested that Gold and Elixir to be made available for Heroes upgrade. He doesn't mind if the upgrade cost 12 Million Gold or Elixir, since he is overflowing Gold and Elixir anyway with nothing to do.

From his point of view, he got every right to ask for this change. But from the big picture, it doesn't make sense at all. The change he requested will change the economy landscape that Gold and Elixir, nobody would be farming DE anymore.

This is the exact same condition of the request to put DE into walls upgrade. Just because you don't need those DE, it doesn't mean this request is legit or reasonable. From the big picture point of view, it will affect the economy, there is no argument there, regardless of how much you take away from the economy at this point, it's pointless to talk about it.

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I am not sure if you where around as we get elixir for walls. We have had the exact same discussion as now.

Fact is that at the higher town halls DE is the most unbalanced resource we have. I find it really funny what you all get on the field to get your idea as the one and only. Your example is far from possible because even if you would raid only gold and elix and get all your DE only thru your drills all your DE upgrades would be done earlier.
Fact is we all have no data and do only assumptions. Only SC knows how much DE is in the economy and also how much is lost. So that means only they can know if it would harm or not
And to get the other question it is of coarse depending on the prize and I round place it as high as 100k

Arguing about the economy for DE is a red herring. There is a viable alternate tha exists today and I have been doing it for the lastmonth or so. Use DE heavy armies. That allows you go amass both gold and regular elixer to build walls. I sit in high titans low legends and can pop out 4-5 walls a day with min8mal effort.

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Originally Posted by WinterMech

How long is the long term? You are talking about years.

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Not really years but around 6 months maybe (which means nothing is you are farming level 13 walls). Maybe even less as apparently some players that aren't gemming already finished their walls. Okay, more casual players will take longer, but by that time this might be compensated by the fully maxed bases that are giving ressources.
I don't know if you are familiar with P2P sharing but we could use a similarity with it. When a new file is being shared the download speeds are "slow", mainly because of the lack of seeds. But, from the moment a few people are done downloading, the overwall sharing speed increases at exponentially. The same way, having more bases fully maxed will increase the flow of ressources helping lower bases to max faster.

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Originally Posted by Sakat

On the short term you might see it as ressources taken away from the economy. But actually and especially on the long term it might benefit the economy. I give an example to illustrate:


I'm done with my heros so now I mostly need gold/elixir to farm my walls. As I can't use DE to up walls, it is pretty useless (except once every two weeks to finish the last troops). So I'll just keep on farming ressources for my walls with dark troops, which keeps DE storage pretty low. I used to farm with goblin knife, now I just spam valkyries. This is also means DE being taken out of the economy (somehow I trade DE for elixir).

If I were able to use DE to up my walls it would take less time to do so. Which means I would earlier become a base "that really doesn't need ressources anymore" or, in other words , a base with a lot of DE to loot.



The difference is that most players who end up in the situation we are talking about in this topic will have everything (defenses, troops and heros) maxed way before being done with walls.

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Yes, but most people do NOT have maxed heroes, particularly people who are low enough that they are just "farming". So you'd be creating a situation whereby a very small fragment of the population is engaged in a situation which adds DE to the economy vs what would otherwise happen, and a MASSIVE portion of the population is taking DE OUT of the economy compared to what would otherwise happen.