Rushing is the new way to go or not?

We have seen now what the mechanism and rewards are for CWL, and what strikes me as odd is that rushing is the way to go. You can be a max TH9 with 30/30 hero's but it is much easier to become a rushed TH12 with low hero's and low defenses and a specific maxed out army combination. In a regular clanwar rushing would give you a clear disadvantage but in CWL it is a major advantage. A rushed TH12 can beat a maxed TH9 any day of the week. Rushing will clearly make your clan stronger in CWL and strong clans get better rewards because they end up in higher tiers. The rewards are so good that it will probably be very beneficial to rush your clan's bases. Since the rewards are better, it is even likely that you will progress faster then if you did not rush. Yes you still have a disadvantage in farming but those lovely hammers probably make up for it. Is rushing really the way to go now?

Do not rush to TH12. Underdeveloped th12s are a huge burden, your weight will be more than a max th11, even with low level defenses and be much easier to 3 star. Don't do it if you war.

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Originally Posted by Micker99

Do not rush to TH12. Underdeveloped th12s are a huge burden, your weight will be more than a max th11, even with low level defenses and be much easier to 3 star. Don't do it if you war.

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In CWL there is not such a thing as war weight. Yes for regular clanwars this is not a good idea but CWL gives much better rewards.

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Originally Posted by RazorBlade72nd

In CWL there is not such a thing as war weight. Yes for regular clanwars this is not a good idea but CWL gives much better rewards.

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There is a such thing as your rushed th12 being easy to 3 star. Im with Micker, terrible idea.

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Originally Posted by RazorBlade72nd

In CWL there is not such a thing as war weight. Yes for regular clanwars this is not a good idea but CWL gives much better rewards.

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Yes but rushing will not make you stronger and you likely won’t be ending up in a higher league until your defences catch up. An underdeveloped TH12 is an easy 3 star to any other TH12 and even a decent TH11. Your ability to farm will be compromised whilst your usefulness in a war is largely the same.

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Originally Posted by BoBoTheGoat

There is a such thing as your rushed th12 being easy to 3 star. Im with Micker, terrible idea.

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Easier to 3* than a TH9, which is the alternative?

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Originally Posted by FearThePatty

Yes but rushing will not make you stronger and you likely won’t be ending up in a higher league until your defences catch up. An underdeveloped TH12 is an easy 3 star to any other TH12 and even a decent TH11. Your ability to farm will be compromised whilst your usefulness in a war is largely the same.

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Keep in mind that your defense will be much less important then your offense in CWL.

Rushing might be by far the superior strategy, but as all maxers know, it is immoral. Do you really want to risk your immortal soul in order to gain advantage in a video game? I didn't think so.

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Originally Posted by RazorBlade72nd

Keep in mind that your defense will be much less important then your offense in CWL.

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How's that? You get one attack. If you get 3 starred, then you need to 3 star, just to break even. I think defense is just as important, not getting 3 starred is huge.

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

Easier to 3* than a TH9, which is the alternative?

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It will be tougher, especially if you upgrade the giga tesla. But you will not want to be in regular clan wars and farming will be extremely tough for awhile. Honestly, you will get 3 starred either way and not be able to 3 back, until you upgrade a lot of defenses/offense, so what's the difference? Who knows if you will even like CWLs. Would suck if you did all that and the CWLs ended up not being good/fun.

Go to th10, so much to do, don't skip THs just for CWL. Or find a clan with lower level THs

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

Easier to 3* than a TH9, which is the alternative?

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Yes an underdeveloped TH12 will take more skill to 3 star than a max TH9, but not much more, and not to a point where there should be risk of failure.

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Originally Posted by RazorBlade72nd

We have seen now what the mechanism and rewards are for CWL, and what strikes me as odd is that rushing is the way to go. You can be a max TH9 with 30/30 hero's but it is much easier to become a rushed TH12 with low hero's and low defenses and a specific maxed out army combination. In a regular clanwar rushing would give you a clear disadvantage but in CWL it is a major advantage. A rushed TH12 can beat a maxed TH9 any day of the week. Rushing will clearly make your clan stronger in CWL and strong clans get better rewards because they end up in higher tiers. The rewards are so good that it will probably be very beneficial to rush your clan's bases. Since the rewards are better, it is even likely that you will progress faster then if you did not rush. Yes you still have a disadvantage in farming but those lovely hammers probably make up for it. Is rushing really the way to go now?

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One of our th11s routinely 3*s rushed 12s.

So, it is definitely great for us: Please rush.

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Originally Posted by Micker99

How's that? You get one attack. If you get 3 starred, then you need to 3 star, just to break even. I think defense is just as important, not getting 3 starred is huge.

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Exactly this. The top tiers are going to be maxed, or near maxed TH12 slug fests. I am in a 50 strong clan with everybody TH12 and close to max. As a result we should end up close to the top but there will still be better Clans than us who will keep us off of the top 1 or 2 tiers I expect. All our wars are max v max and we hold our own but no better than that, but I guarantee if we face a clan who brings underdeveloped TH12s, we will beat them.

So...it really depends on how fast you rush, what you build along the way, and your clan’s goals, but, in general...I agree with the OP.

If you rush to TH12 smartly, maxing something like BoWitch or Mass EDs, and you max your army camps...you will definitely be offensively far, far more capable. In CWLs, we already know that offense is king - the more stars you earn, the greater the rewards. It doesn’t matter if your base is 3-starred so long as you are typically getting 3 stars yourself, and your base is not going to be 3-starred every single match either.

If you’re in an elite war clan, then you’re all nearly maxed TH12s anyway. Us lowly peasants won’t ever match up against the elite war clans anyways, much less one with more than a handful of equally rushed TH12s. See...everyone else is playing a very different game from what the top clans play and have quite different goals. Likewise, if you’re a TH9, you need to get to TH12 as quickly as possible to compete anyway. Since you’ll be in the middle of the pack until you’re TH12 maxed regardless, where’s the downside? Normal players...it makes sense to rush.

And, unless you’re doing elite war, there’s no downside to a smart rush in regular clan wars either. Two attacks...rushed games have more to offer sooner.

For my part...I’m rushing as I always have done. I recently took a newer TH10 to TH12 and I will likely do the same with my other two TH10s. TBH, I think regular CWs are about to take a massive hit anyway and I am beyond tired of the horrible matchmaker, so I may stop regular CWs altogether in favor of just CWL.

We still haven't found out how much of the medals are earned per war... So u may be rushing just to have to likely collect 200+ medals at a rate of earning +5 a war :) better to wait and see

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Originally Posted by Micker99

How's that? You get one attack. If you get 3 starred, then you need to 3 star, just to break even. I think defense is just as important, not getting 3 starred is huge.

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Let me explain why offense will become more important in CWL then defense. To win the CWL you have to score as many stars as you can. Scoring stars is something you do with your offensive power. Try to imagine that all the clans are equal in the tournament and you upgrade your offense so that you score on average one extra star per war. That means that you score 7 extra stars in the tournament. Lets also say that you lower your defense so that the enemy can score one extra star on you on average. Who will win the tournament then?

If al the clans would normally score 20 stars per war then they would score now 21 stars against your clan because your defense is slightly lower then they end up with 141 stars. If you would however score one more star per war because your offense is stronger then you would score 147 stars.

If you have lower defense then all the other clans in the tournament wil profit one time from it. If you have stronger offense then you will profit 7 times. That is why offense will be much more important in CWL then in regular clanwar.

Depend on what Op means by rushing though, if it’s merely th12 to unlock higher troops, then yeah, u’ll do well against th9 or 10. Problem is heroes, without high lv heroes, u won’t do much against max th11 or another 12s. And at some point u’ll get those (if u win ur league and move up). So, maybe work for 1 cwl, no good for long term as others pointed

I wouldn’t say rush, but maybe you should move to next TH when all buildings and traps are maxed if your clan focus on CWL.

I mean, for CWL, the stronger your defence is the better, since it’s not based on war weight. Following this logic, it doesn’t make sense to leave your builders idle while you work on heroes & walls & remaining troops on lab.

So, why not rush all the way to TH12? Well, you’ll likely have a hard time farming to upgrading your stuff since your attack will be weak (there is loot penalty for attacking lower THs) and your defences will let anyone in, and loot cap (max that can be stolen from your storages) for TH12 is higher than other THs

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Originally Posted by RazorBlade72nd

Let me explain why offense will become more important in CWL then defense. To win the CWL you have to score as many stars as you can. Scoring stars is something you do with your offensive power. Try to imagine that all the clans are equal in the tournament and you upgrade your offense so that you score on average one extra star per war. That means that you score 7 extra stars in the tournament. Lets also say that you lower your defense so that the enemy can score one extra star on you on average. Who will win the tournament then?

If al the clans would normally score 20 stars per war then they would score now 21 stars against your clan because your defense is slightly lower then they end up with 141 stars. If you would however score one more star per war because your offense is stronger then you would score 147 stars.

If you have lower defense then all the other clans in the tournament wil profit one time from it. If you have stronger offense then you will profit 7 times. That is why offense will be much more important in CWL then in regular clanwar.

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Your maths is off. If you fight all 7 times you gain 7 and lose 1 time by your calculations, in reality you both and win and lose 7 times for net no gain. However here is the crux, you will quickly get to a point where your better offence cannot offset your still weakened defence. Despite how it is portrayed that TH12s are easy to 3 star, they are not. Most wars have less than a third of bases 3 starred and that is with 2 attempts on average per base. A very weak TH12 will in comparison be easy to 3 star in a single hit for many months unless gemmed.

Rushing could be OK if you are prepared to take the pain of the more difficult farming and getting crushed for a long time. But you will not be competitive in the clan war games beyond the mid tier leagues.

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Originally Posted by Hanofee

Depend on what Op means by rushing though, if it’s merely th12 to unlock higher troops, then yeah, u’ll do well against th9 or 10. Problem is heroes, without high lv heroes, u won’t do much against max th11 or another 12s. And at some point u’ll get those (if u win ur league and move up). So, maybe work for 1 cwl, no good for long term as others pointed

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I think that even if you have only lvl 1 hero's then you should be able to able to score frequent 2 stars against TH12 and frequent 3 stars against TH11 if you have maxed out army camps, spells and edragons.

What I mean is that rushing will get you higher in CWL with the same amount of effort then maxing everything out.

It’s your choice. You can rush if you want. People told me not to rush but I did anyway and I’m enjoying it a lot, being th12 is quite fun and I am managing to catch up now

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Originally Posted by Noctaire

So...it really depends on how fast you rush, what you build along the way, and your clan’s goals, but, in general...I agree with the OP.

If you rush to TH12 smartly, maxing something like BoWitch or Mass EDs, and you max your army camps...you will definitely be offensively far, far more capable. In CWLs, we already know that offense is king - the more stars you earn, the greater the rewards. It doesn’t matter if your base is 3-starred so long as you are typically getting 3 stars yourself, and your base is not going to be 3-starred every single match either.

If you’re in an elite war clan, then you’re all nearly maxed TH12s anyway. Us lowly peasants won’t ever match up against the elite war clans anyways, much less one with more than a handful of equally rushed TH12s. See...everyone else is playing a very different game from what the top clans play and have quite different goals. Likewise, if you’re a TH9, you need to get to TH12 as quickly as possible to compete anyway. Since you’ll be in the middle of the pack until you’re TH12 maxed regardless, where’s the downside? Normal players...it makes sense to rush.

And, unless you’re doing elite war, there’s no downside to a smart rush in regular clan wars either. Two attacks...rushed games have more to offer sooner.

For my part...I’m rushing as I always have done. I recently took a newer TH10 to TH12 and I will likely do the same with my other two TH10s. TBH, I think regular CWs are about to take a massive hit anyway and I am beyond tired of the horrible matchmaker, so I may stop regular CWs altogether in favor of just CWL.

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I agree with you on rushing, I rushed and I love it. However regular clan wars will still be important mainly because CWL is only run one week a month. People will do regular wars for the other 3 weeks

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Originally Posted by FearThePatty

Your maths is off. If you fight all 7 times you gain 7 and lose 1 time by your calculations, in reality you both and win and lose 7 times for net no gain. However here is the crux, you will quickly get to a point where your better offence cannot offset your still weakened defence. Despite how it is portrayed that TH12s are easy to 3 star, they are not. Most wars have less than a third of bases 3 starred and that is with 2 attempts on average per base. A very weak TH12 will in comparison be easy to 3 star in a single hit for many months unless gemmed.

Rushing could be OK if you are prepared to take the pain of the more difficult farming and getting crushed for a long time. But you will not be competitive in the clan war games beyond the mid tier leagues.

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I am not saying that rushed TH12 accounts are better then in CWL then maxed out TH12 accounts. No you will not end up in the top of CWL with rushed accounts. However, how much effort does it take to max out a TH9? probably a couple of years. How much effort does it take to rush to a TH12 with maxed army camps, maxed edragons, maxed rage spells? Probably that takes les time. If you end up with your rushed TH12 accounts against a clan with maxed out TH9. Who do you think will win? Therefore, who will get higer in the CWL with the least amount of effort? So, who will get those nice hammers quicker?

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Originally Posted by RazorBlade72nd

I am not saying that rushed TH12 accounts are better then in CWL then maxed out TH12 accounts. No you will not end up in the top of CWL with rushed accounts. However, how much effort does it take to max out a TH9? probably a couple of years. How much effort does it take to rush to a TH12 with maxed army camps, maxed edragons, maxed rage spells? Probably that takes les time. If you end up with your rushed TH12 accounts against a clan with maxed out TH9. Who do you think will win? Therefore, who will get higer in the CWL with the least amount of effort? So, who will get those nice hammers quicker?

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If it would take you a couple of years to max th9 now with all the books, price reductions, time reductions and such, it would take you at least that long to reach a rushed th12 status. It didnt take me that long before that. Th10 took 8 months f2p. 11 is progressing nicely. My opinion is if you have other 12s to back you up, it might work. If it's just you, forget regular wars. You will get stomped. But then again, you seem to have all the answers so do as you wish.

If you want to upgrade TH early for the purposes of CWL then you should do well with it ... my advice ... wait til AFTER season 1.

If you want to upgrade TH early for the purposes of CW ... don't ... you will most likely find your clan leadership leaving you out of CW's until at least troops, spells and heroes get upgraded.

It’s a single attack. Mano a Mano. Defense is just as important as offense. There is no war weight except for the first time. The goal is to score 3 while making your enemy score 2. In CWL, I want to increase the odds of making my enemy score 2 as much as possible. I’m praying people rush.

Edit: Also, the first few times, CWL tiers are going to be all over the place - lots of movement and lopsided scores until clans settle into where they should be. But as you move up, weak bases will get pummeled and you will have harder bases that you can’t 3 star - you will be forced to advance both offense and defense. Remember what it’s like when you see the enemy bases in war and you know from the start you are going to get a perfect - it will be that way for the enemy if you rush.

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Originally Posted by mattyboo1

I agree with you on rushing, I rushed and I love it. However regular clan wars will still be important mainly because CWL is only run one week a month. People will do regular wars for the other 3 weeks

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Well...maybe. It all depends on the clan. I think more folks will move away from classic CWs and all its matchmaker problems. If (and it’s a BIG IF) SC built CWLs right, mixed clans will settle into a much better position than they will be under classic CWs.

The current matchmaker is a disaster for mixed clans. Between engineering and normal rushing, it can’t tell up from down. In a year or so, CWLs will be sorted into skill based classes - that’s huge. No more of the matchmaker being fooled by low level THs at the bottom of a roster or a defenseless game with L50 heroes and maxed troops making it look like a TH8...matches will be closer to attacking skills and actual capabilities. There’s really no benefit to classic CWs either - sure, you get loot but that’s easy to get without the massive time and resource investment required. The only good thing to come from classic CWs is clan XP and they nerfed that to oblivion a long time ago.

Consider, too, the toll a week straight of warring will take on most clans. Not everyone runs nonstop CWs. I think players will burn out on so many wars and just run the once a month league play for the far better rewards they can earn instead.

Additionally, rushed games are not necessarily a deficit in classic CWs either. If you’re a diehard war monger, joining an elite war clan...yeah, you want to be maxed. That’s the expectation and how the game is played at the top. But for normal players in the typical clan...? A well rushed game can often pull in 6 stars where it only loses 2 or 3, freeing up stronger players to clear the board more efficiently. I’ve run rushed games for years and it works just fine. I have no interest in being 31337 - I just want to level up, get clan perks, and grab rewards so I can advance my game builds.

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Originally Posted by IronBrigade

It’s a single attack. Mano a Mano. Defense is just as important as offense. There is no war weight except for the first time. The goal is to score 3 while making your enemy score 2. In CWL, I want to increase the odds of making my enemy score 2 as much as possible. I’m praying people rush.

Edit: Also, the first few times, CWL tiers are going to be all over the place - lots of movement and lopsided scores until clans settle into where they should be. But as you move up, weak bases will get pummeled and you will have harder bases that you can’t 3 star - you will be forced to advance both offense and defense. Remember what it’s like when you see the enemy bases in war and you know from the start you are going to get a perfect - it will be that way for the enemy if you rush.

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You do realize that you can win every war but still lose the tournament, right? BTW, You can also lose every war and still win the tournament.

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Originally Posted by IronBrigade

It’s a single attack. Mano a Mano. Defense is just as important as offense. There is no war weight except for the first time. The goal is to score 3 while making your enemy score 2. In CWL, I want to increase the odds of making my enemy score 2 as much as possible. I’m praying people rush.

Edit: Also, the first few times, CWL tiers are going to be all over the place - lots of movement and lopsided scores until clans settle into where they should be. But as you move up, weak bases will get pummeled and you will have harder bases that you can’t 3 star - you will be forced to advance both offense and defense. Remember what it’s like when you see the enemy bases in war and you know from the start you are going to get a perfect - it will be that way for the enemy if you rush.

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Actually...this is not correct. It is not Mano a Mano - you can attack anyone among the 15 you choose. A rushed TH12 at #10 that is a good attacker with, say, EDs could hit the opposing clan’s #5 for 3 stars, allowing a much stronger player in his lineup to hit up or down, and so forth. And it’s a league tournament - a rushed TH12 could give away 21 stars to the other clans while earning 21 stars to add to his own clan’s overall total. The 21 on the one clan’s total will have far greater impact to their chances of winning the overall tournament (or, more likely, placing higher) than the 3 he gives to each of the other 7 clans.

In this type of tournament play, offense is king and defense is secondary until you get much further up in the ranks. No clan running with rushed TH12s is going to be in the upper tiers of the leagues, but they’ll certainly be higher than if they run maxed TH9s instead. Clans with mostly maxed TH12s likely won’t even see these clans and they certainly won’t see them after the first few months. FWIW, though, I do agree things will settle down after several months of chaos and clans with rushed TH12s will find themselves running in the middle of the pack (whereas they would likely be lower otherwise). The advantage of greater offense capabilities will be highly determinant for the middle ranks, though.

Things become difficult when got rushed. So it good enough to not being rushed.

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Originally Posted by Trinacria

One of our th11s routinely 3*s rushed 12s.

So, it is definitely great for us: Please rush.

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How does that th11 do against th9s, which is where the player would be if he didn’t rush to th12? I bet he 3 stars them easier. And how would that th9 do attacking that th11? I bet not a good as he would if he rushed to th12 and maxed on mass troop. We have some rushed players in our clan that are th11s that haven’t been allowed to war thus far, but will get into war leagues.

Yes, OP, war leagues encourages rushing. Because there is no weight to consider, there is no disadvantage to dropping big defenses and rushing ahead. The only disadvantages are if you try to use the same account in regular wars and also there can be some multiplayer troubles getting loot if the rushing is too extreme.

Not gonna rush my minis until the update drops. There’s no turning back in rushing, only moving forward but heavily suffering.

CWLs will render engineering obsolete because of the lack of weight based matchmaking, while not only protecting the concept of, “play how you like” but essentially removing any lingering uncertainties around the benefits of an offense focused upgrade path. The result should be very similar to what we see on the BB, just on a grander, aggregate scale that goes beyond the limited scope of a simple PvP implementation. Further, anyone playing a “perma-THx” will quickly find themselves at a disadvantage as will those who play the x.5 game.

When this thing really kicks into high gear next year, I’m tellin’ ya... the CWL mid-tiers will be dominated by rushed TH12s and classic CWs will be in trouble. There is a strong potential for the two war games to become mutually exclusive modes of play and as mixed clans with rushed games of varying maturity are the dominant make-up of the game.... :smirk:

All that said...shouldn’t nobody be changing gears now if they’ve been maxing. We have very limited facts to go on and no one can be certain how it will shake out.

So you rush. In order to win. In order to get medals. In order to buy hammers. In order to progress your base very quickly. Which enables you to unwind the rushing.

I mean, it’s a strategy not without merits if cwl is what the account is built for. Anything else, it’s severely disadvantaged.

it really doesnt matter much in CWL if you want to rush. You will for a short period of time add value. When your clan reaches its natural level however, you wont be facing TH9s and at that time you better be getting those defenses in order as you wont be three starring near as often.

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Originally Posted by littledoctor

Rushing might be by far the superior strategy, but as all maxers know, it is immoral. Do you really want to risk your immortal soul in order to gain advantage in a video game? I didn't think so.

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hold upppppp. dont bring up the morals here
purely on the fact of getting to the endgame much faster, whats wrong with rushing? i could get a th1 to max th10 in 1 year with rushing completely f2p. can you do the same thing by maxing every TH? NO.

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Originally Posted by KURORO

Not gonna rush my minis until the update drops. There’s no turning back in rushing, only moving forward but heavily suffering.

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yes there is no turning back in rushing, because when you do it, you realise its much faster than maxxing, SoD style
i guess the suffering is the regret that you chose to max previously and wasted a bunch of time

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Originally Posted by wynnsiensheng

So you rush. In order to win. In order to get medals. In order to buy hammers. In order to progress your base very quickly. Which enables you to unwind the rushing.

I mean, it’s a strategy not without merits if cwl is what the account is built for. Anything else, it’s severely disadvantaged.

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rushing up to a certain lvl (th10/11) is actually advantageous in getting to the endgame more quickly. judging by your join date, im sure you have heard of SoD

For CWL, definitely, but CWL is just 1 week in a month. What would you do on rest 3 weeks?

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Originally Posted by raja1

For CWL, definitely, but CWL is just 1 week in a month. What would you do on rest 3 weeks?

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max out more quickly compared to maxers in the 3 weeks?

I know how Hard it is to max my rush account even though i have good maxed troops.If you are good in offensive attack and have a lot of time and gems to keep up with it then do it. But you will have hard days in maxing you offense and defence.Just for the sake of war league you will be destroying your beautiful base.

You'll be food for other TH12s. So what if you can kill a TH9 with your 12. If you can't kill a TH9 99 percent of the time with a TH9 then you have no business as a TH12! They will crush you.

I don't yet know how the rewards are going to work. I assume you have to win to get rewards. If not, then yeah it may be of benefit. Honestly, I'm tired of the piecemeal way it is being introduced. I have no idea how CWL will work because of it. If you are just going to get rewards, not such a big deal. If you want to win, rushing will be the worst thing you can do.

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Originally Posted by RazorBlade72nd

We have seen now what the mechanism and rewards are for CWL, and what strikes me as odd is that rushing is the way to go. You can be a max TH9 with 30/30 hero's but it is much easier to become a rushed TH12 with low hero's and low defenses and a specific maxed out army combination. In a regular clanwar rushing would give you a clear disadvantage but in CWL it is a major advantage. A rushed TH12 can beat a maxed TH9 any day of the week. Rushing will clearly make your clan stronger in CWL and strong clans get better rewards because they end up in higher tiers. The rewards are so good that it will probably be very beneficial to rush your clan's bases. Since the rewards are better, it is even likely that you will progress faster then if you did not rush. Yes you still have a disadvantage in farming but those lovely hammers probably make up for it. Is rushing really the way to go now?

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Originally Posted by RazorBlade72nd

In CWL there is not such a thing as war weight. Yes for regular clanwars this is not a good idea but CWL gives much better rewards.

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During the first signup period, the weight of the strongest 15 bases in the clan will be used for League placement. After that, a clan will be moving up and down the ranks depending on strength (another word for effective weight)..

Sooner or later, your clan will be facing 15 fully developed TH12s, and your rushed, engineered mess will be a liability and kept out of LeagueWar. (Unless you are the leader and keep putting your own, weak, base into war. In that case, I'd expect you to be very alone in the clan very soon)

/Affront

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Originally Posted by Affront

During the first signup period, the weight of the strongest 15 bases in the clan will be used for League placement. After that, a clan will be moving up and down the ranks depending on strength (another word for effective weight)..

Sooner or later, your clan will be facing 15 fully developed TH12s, and your rushed, engineered mess will be a liability and kept out of LeagueWar. (Unless you are the leader and keep putting your own, weak, base into war. In that case, I'd expect you to be very alone in the clan very soon)

/Affront

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No he/she won’t.

First, there aren’t that many “fully developed TH12s” out there, let alone clans that have 15+ of them. Second - and most importantly - clans that have that many now and a year from now also require that those who join have the same, so a rushed TH12 would never be a member of such a clan or anything even close to it so they’ll never even be in direct competition.

You guys keep missing this point in the debate. It’s simply not about being at the top of the pack. It’s all about the middle of the pack and that space will be owned by mixed clans with as many TH12 games as they can muster. These mythical creatures the rushed TH12s will supposedly be ineffective against will - quite literally - be out of their league.

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Originally Posted by RazorBlade72nd

You do realize that you can win every war but still lose the tournament, right? BTW, You can also lose every war and still win the tournament.

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Mathematically possible yes, likelihood of happening, almost zero.

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Originally Posted by Affront

During the first signup period, the weight of the strongest 15 bases in the clan will be used for League placement. After that, a clan will be moving up and down the ranks depending on strength (another word for effective weight)..

Sooner or later, your clan will be facing 15 fully developed TH12s, and your rushed, engineered mess will be a liability and kept out of LeagueWar. (Unless you are the leader and keep putting your own, weak, base into war. In that case, I'd expect you to be very alone in the clan very soon)

/Affront

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Sure, a rushed TH12 clan can't beat a fully maxed out TH12 clan. That seems obvious. However if they were not rushed they would have been TH9. Do you think a TH9 clan would beat a TH12 clan? I get the feeling that somehow people think they are matched based on war weight and that you will only see comparable clans against you. That is not true. If you beat the clans with TH9, you will be facing TH10 clans and typically you can't beat TH10 clans with TH9 clans but you do have a more then fair chance with rushed TH12 accounts. You will get higher on the ladder with rushed accounts then with maxed out accounts with the same amount of effort.

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Originally Posted by FearThePatty

Mathematically possible yes, likelihood of happening, almost zero.

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Try to imagine that you came in a tier that is dominated with TH10 accounts. Your clan has almost only rushed TH12 accounts with very weak defense but strong armies. Lets say that those TH10 accounts have no problem crushing your low defenses and will beat your clan every time with e.g. 44 stars against your 42 stars.

They have to also fight each other and for them it is a lot tougher to beat max defenses of a TH10 then it is for you with a maxed army of edragons. Most of the time they only score 2 stars on each other and sometimes 3 stars. This gives them 33 stars in war while you get 42 stars every war. So in the end they have 6 times 33 stars and one time 44 stars which is a total of 242. You will have 7 times 42 stars which is 294 stars.

My conclusion is that you will lose a lot of battles if you neglect your defenses but that you win in the end the tournament because at the end of the week you collected the most stars. So it is not just a mathematical thing but it should happen often if clans start to rush.

Right now it defenitely pays to be a rushed th12. Get your Edrags up and you have no need for high level heroes. Two starring any base becomes effortlessly.

No i really hate rushers 😫

Rushing improves both your defense and offense much quicker than maxing, this is what most people miss out on. A rushed TH12 will never face maxed TH12s, but rather TH10/11s and maybe not even maxed TH11s. And with the hammers the TH12 can win, they can progress much faster, and use those hammers on stronger upgrades compared to someone in TH10/11

It is actually better if the rushed TH12 faces against maxed TH11/developed TH12s, because this means that the rushed TH12 who has only played for maybe a year is fighting against people who have played for 3-5 years, proving the efficacy of rushing. Whereas the TH9/10 who adamantly max are placed in low leagues and have no hope to match those TH11/12s

Ah to rush or not to rush.... That’s the question! XD

Personally before doing anything you cannot undo or reverse I’d wait and watch a few CWL wars in action first and learn how they operate exactly.

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Originally Posted by SatyabrataSahoo

No i really hate rushers 

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That might really become a problem. If you put all the effort in maxing your account to a max TH10 and you have to fight clans that are very rushed and you have no chance of beating them, then that can become frustrating very quickly. People are used to fair match ups but that will end with CWL. On a regular bases you will fight wars that you can impossibly win. On the other hand, you will fight wars that you can impossibly lose. Losing from a more skilled clan is one thing but losing from a bunch of rushed TH12s is a whole other thing.

Yes this update will be a whole lot of fun for clans who can put forward at least 15 maxed out TH12. For other clans this might become frustrating. If they want to move up then the easiest way will be to rush. I also understand now Darian's remark that you would like to be a TH12 when this update is released.

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Originally Posted by Kreyfish

rushing up to a certain lvl (th10/11) is actually advantageous in getting to the endgame more quickly. judging by your join date, im sure you have heard of SoD

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cant say I have. What’s SoD?

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Originally Posted by raja1

For CWL, definitely, but CWL is just 1 week in a month. What would you do on rest 3 weeks?

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play regular wars with a maxed account?

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Originally Posted by Micker99

Do not rush to TH12. Underdeveloped th12s are a huge burden, your weight will be more than a max th11, even with low level defenses and be much easier to 3 star. Don't do it if you war.

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what if all my defenses are of level 1 And 3rd inferno tower is only or Th12 so there is a option whether to place it or not. As i only upgrade my laboratory to max level and use POWER POTION
to max troops to there higgest possible level.

When the CWL starts. I will be rotated to 15th position on map and attack on 1st player.

Due to this all my clan members gets the chance to attack the player ONE STEP below there position. Hahaha

Rushing will not be helpful in CWL as there is only single attack for each in cwl; and if you place every defense (it does not matter maxed upgraded or not) you will be considered as th12. And also a matched max th11 can 3 star against a rushed th12.

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Originally Posted by kundantiwarikt

Rushing will not be helpful in CWL as there is only single attack for each in cwl; and if you place every defense (it does not matter maxed upgraded or not) you will be considered as th12. And also a matched max th11 can 3 star against a rushed th12.

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You do realize after week 1, base weight has no bearing on matches, just the number of stars gained or lost.

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Originally Posted by kundantiwarikt

Rushing will not be helpful in CWL as there is only single attack for each in cwl; and if you place every defense (it does not matter maxed upgraded or not) you will be considered as th12. And also a matched max th11 can 3 star against a rushed th12.

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You are talking about matching? There is no matching in CWL and that is precisely why rushing WILL be a benefit. If a player doesn’t care about regular wars, there is no doubt strategic rushing is the best plan for CWL. That doesn’t mean just blindly upgrading everything to level one all the way to th12. However, once you have your main attack offense (for farming and war) maxed at your hall level, go to the next one and repeat until th12. You will be a rushed th12 faster than a max th9, but much stronger on offense and defense.

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Originally Posted by wynnsiensheng

cant say I have. What’s SoD?

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SoD is SinofDusk, a well known advocate for rushing

Try for 1 season sir with your normal accounts ...then decide after that. Tell us who those clans you met with and the results.
Im following this thread.
Cheers

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Originally Posted by RazorBlade72nd

You do realize that you can win every war but still lose the tournament, right? BTW, You can also lose every war and still win the tournament.

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You do realize it’s not about winning the wars and about getting the most overall star for the week. Think about it like this - you get 7 chances to get 3 stars and you get 7 chances to defend 3 stars. You may or may not get 7 3*s depending upon the defenses you are attacking. But if you are rushed and in an appropriate tier (after the first few rounds of this), odds are you are giving up 7 3*s. Oh and in case you aren’t good at math, everyone gets the chance at the exact same number of total potential stars. If you make it easier for them, I know they will thank you. (Btw I’m poking you a little hoping you will rush out of spite)

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Originally Posted by Noctaire

Actually...this is not correct. It is not Mano a Mano - you can attack anyone among the 15 you choose.

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It’s not “officially” Mano a mano but it certainly feels like it. I’ve done 6-7 Friendlies in a clan family where we only allowed 1 attack. You get 1 attack and you very quickly realize you get 1 defense. In a 15v15, it feels very much like 15 individual Mano a Mano battles - no scouting, no cleanup. Just 1 attack, 1 defense. The single attack is actually a pretty huge difference - you’ll see. There is still strategy but only on who attacks that 1 time and that’s it. Rushed bases were deemed not very valuable - kind of like some of the forum tournaments where you can enter with a rushed based but you will get clobbered. That was before th12 so maybe that changes things although I doubt it.

Y’all know you can test this format out right now via friendly wars, right? I can’t possibly be the only one who’s already done this.

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Originally Posted by IronBrigade

It’s not “officially” Mano a mano but it certainly feels like it. I’ve done 6-7 Friendlies in a clan family where we only allowed 1 attack. You get 1 attack and you very quickly realize you get 1 defense. In a 15v15, it feels very much like 15 individual Mano a Mano battles - no scouting, no cleanup. Just 1 attack, 1 defense. The single attack is actually a pretty huge difference - you’ll see. There is still strategy but only on who attacks that 1 time and that’s it. Rushed bases were deemed not very valuable - kind of like some of the forum tournaments where you can enter with a rushed based but you will get clobbered. That was before th12 so maybe that changes things although I doubt it.

Y’all know you can test this format out right now via friendly wars, right? I can’t possibly be the only one who’s already done this.

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Yes, but it’s still not Mano a Mano, especially when the lineups can vary so much. It will feel like this for high level clans where they are dominated by TH12 and TH11, but this will be less the case than the mixed clans where rushers reside (and represent the vast majority of CoC). As to your mention of FCs...you’re manually controlling for TH levels in a way that will not occur for most in CWLs.

I realize those who subscribe to the religion of maxing will not like this notion, but rushing provides offensive advantages that will be more influential in this new mode of play. Defense is important, but making the assumption that a rushed game is going to give up 21 stars every season just is not the case and the fact you only get 1 attack will actually increase the value of these games. I run a clan with 50v50 wars all the time and it is very common to see a base hammered by 3, 4, 5 or more attacks as an opposing clan attempts to 3-star it. That won’t work in CWLs where you get just one attack. This happens on bases that are maxed, near maxed, and rushed all the time.

Likewise, the number of stars given across 7 wars is less important to a clan than the number earned. In a competition where there is one maxed clan vs all rushed clans, if all clans were running the same levels of bases...then the maxed clan would likely come out ahead in the end. That will not be the case, though - not by a long shot.

Now...would a clan of all rushed TH12s place high in the leagues and tiers? Of course not. Could such a clan place higher than a clan of all maxed TH11/12s? Possibly, but extremely unlikely. Will they place higher than a clan with a mix of TH10-TH12 maxers at varying stages of development? With decent offensive lineups and attacking skills...very probable.

It all comes down to the general make-up of the leagues. The top tiers will absolutely be dominated by fully maxed TH12 and TH11 players. They WILL achieve the greatest glory and amass far greater loot than the rest. The vast majority of the clans out there, though, will find themselves elsewhere, in a world of mixed level rosters where offense is king.

Apples and oranges - both are fruit, both grow on trees, but the colors and flavors are very different.

For CWL rushing is clearly the way to to, if you are a low th. People saying it is not, because you will be easily three stared, clearly have a flawed logic. Yes, the rushed base will be easily three stared, but so will a non rushed low th (even easier). So defensively both a rushed th12 and a maxed th9 will be about the same. In offence however the rushed th12 will clearly be stronger, once he has some troops at high levels and lvl5+ warden.
So rushing is obviously stronger than maxing a low th, if you just look at CWL. Saying anything different is simply wrong and might come from people being afraid of getting crushed by rushed clans in CWL.

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Originally Posted by Noctaire

I realize those who subscribe to the religion of maxing will not like this notion, but rushing provides offensive advantages that will be more influential in this new mode of play.

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Well, I'm a Maxer by trade, but I'm not particularly upset by this notion, as I see CWL as a farming/progression tool, not a glory pedestal.
I would agree however with your evaluation. Rushed TH12s will be advantageous overtime in certain tiers. They won't rule at the top ranks of CWL, as these will be frequented by Max TH12 rosters (hopefully fair play?!?).

That being said, I won't be rushing. There will be a distinction between CWL and regular Wars, as one is weight orientated, the other isn't. One is an avenue for progression, the other a purely glory game mode.
Each to their own as to which playstyle, progression path is chosen!
:)

Please bring your rushed TH12 to the party, It will help my clan progress into the top tiers that much faster. Love attacking TH 9 walls and defenses on a TH 12.

Where rushing to 12 may help in CWL, it could destroy a clans normal clan wars.

Imagine a clan that now wars with 2 x 12, 3 x 11, 4 x 10 and 6 x 9. That is a pretty decent breakdown to find an opponent, matches wont take long and the matches will be pretty equal.

Now give it a few weeks/months, and you are trying to match with 15 TH 12 bases, of which 10 are rushed. That will be very tough to match in regular wars I think. Furthermore, your chances of being accepted by any half decent war clan are zero.

This all is no problem if CWL is your only object, and you are not planning to switch to another clan any time soon.

Bottom line is that I still think rushing is not a smart thing to do, but I do see it's advantages in CWL. As long as we do not know the rewards for every tier, I would definitely not start rushing just yet though.

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Originally Posted by ApolloBear

Please bring your rushed TH12 to the party, It will help my clan progress into the top tiers that much faster. Love attacking TH 9 walls and defenses on a TH 12.

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It won't help your clan at all. There will still be at least the same number of stronger clans, who will be in higher tier. The people, who consider rushing now are low ths, which you would beat easily anyways, if you say, you beat the rushed 12s, that are obviously stronger than a non rushed th9 or so.
So you either had a flawed logic, when writing your post, or you are seriously afraid of your mixed clan getting crushed by rushed th12s.

If mixed means posting solid TH 12's close to being maxed and 11's doing the same. Then I wont be worried. We will be posting strong TH 12's that are not rushed. The bottom of our lineup will be maxed 11's. So probably the rushed 12's with only 1-3 maxed troops will have a hard time trying to matchup and will probably get stomped by our non rushed 11's. Not pretending to know it all. Just think its wiser to balance your progression instead of focusing on a potential limited benefit of rushing. But once CWl is out we will see. If anything it will just help us progress to the top tiers faster.

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Originally Posted by ApolloBear

If mixed means posting solid TH 12's close to being maxed and 11's doing the same. Then I wont be worried. We will be posting strong TH 12's that are not rushed. The bottom of our lineup will be maxed 11's. So probably the rushed 12's with only 1-3 maxed troops will have a hard time trying to matchup and will probably get stomped by our non rushed 11's. Not pretending to know it all. Just think its wiser to balance your progression instead of focusing on a potential limited benefit of rushing. But once CWl is out we will see.

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But how can you say, people rushing will help your clan go up in tiers, when there is no way of that being true? If your players are just mediocre, you will neither face a clan of maxed low ths nor one of only rushed th12s, so with your setup you just won't play against the players, who are considering rushing.
Yet for those players rushing is the best option in CWL. The same player will clearly get better results as a rushed th12 than as a maxed th9.

Probably the top tier, maybe the top 2 tiers, will consist of pure TH 12 clans, the higher in the tier the more maxed (or skilled) the players will be.

The majority of tiers, however, will be mixed clans. The lower you get, the less (or none) TH 12 bases will be part of the mix. The last few tiers will be mostly beginning clans with low town hall levels.

So if we assume (example) that tier 3-15 are all mixed clans, then rushing villages to TH 12 could be viable, as every TH 12 you have more then your opponent, is an advantage. Given the fact that a rushed base with one maxed army can crush any TH 9 and most TH 10 bases. Not the TH 11 bases probably, plus any medium developed TH 11 will crush that rushed 12, removing the advantage.

Those talking about the rushed account giving up 3 stars easier are missing the point. A strategically rushed account is HARDER to 3 star. A player can strategically rush to th11 or th12 in the same amount of time as a close to max th9 and the rushed one will be better on offense AND defense. The only reason people have a negative view of a “Rushed” account is because of the heavy war weight some of those big defenses carry in regular wars but that doesn’t matter in CWL. Ignore the color of the hall, make your defense and offense as strong as possible as fast as possible. We have multiple rushed accounts in my clan that we don’t allow into our regular wars, but you can bet they will be in our CWL rather than our max th8s, th9s and some th10s.

Edit: An example to prove the point: What would be stronger on defense, a close to max th9 that moves to th10 and builds an inferno or the same th9 instead staying at th9 and putting that gold into walls? The new th10 with the inferno is harder to 3 star and while becoming stronger on defense that same player can also upgrade a troop, spell, etc. to become stronger on offense. That rushed th10 is now stronger on offense and defense than the close to max th9.

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Originally Posted by 2222

Those talking about the rushed account giving up 3 stars easier are missing the point. A strategically rushed account is HARDER to 3 star. A player can strategically rush to th11 or th12 in the same amount of time as a close to max th9 and the rushed one will be better on offense AND defense. The only reason people have a negative view of a “Rushed” account is because of the heavy war weight some of those big defenses carry in regular wars but that doesn’t matter in CWL. Ignore the color of the hall, make your defense and offense as strong as possible as fast as possible. We have multiple rushed accounts in my clan that we don’t allow into our regular wars, but you can bet they will be in our CWL rather than our max th8s, th9s and some th10s.

Edit: An example to prove the point: What would be stronger on defense, a close to max th9 that moves to th10 and builds an inferno or the same th9 instead staying at th9 and putting that gold into walls? The new th10 with the inferno is harder to 3 star and while becoming stronger on defense that same player can also upgrade a troop, spell, etc. to become stronger on offense. That rushed th10 is now stronger on offense and defense than the close to max th9.

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War weight is so ingrained into people's ideas about war matching, once they can stop thinking about weight and th levels, and realize it is all about net stars gained or lost after 7 wars, they will be able to understand better.

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Originally Posted by Warios

War weight is so ingrained into people's ideas about war matching, once they can stop thinking about weight and th levels, and realize it is all about net stars gained or lost after 7 wars, they will be able to understand better.

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Exactly. League War is one attack and one defense. That makes the side that rushers and engineers have ignored very important.

You can't throw away 3 stars in the hope to be able to gain 4-6.. Because you only get one attack.

I'm sure that there is a loop hole in the new League War mechanics, but Engineered and rushed bases ain't it.

I'm not even sure that there is a reason to put anything less than 15 th12s in the initial lineup, if that amount of 12s are available in the clan.

I certainly can't see any reason to put TH9s in the lineup..

/Affront

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Originally Posted by Affront

Exactly. League War is one attack and one defense. That makes the side that rushers and engineers have ignored very important.

You can't throw away 3 stars in the hope to be able to gain 4-6.. Because you only get one attack.

I'm sure that there is a loop hole in the new League War mechanics, but Engineered and rushed bases ain't it.

I'm not even sure that there is a reason to put anything less than 15 th12s in the initial lineup, if that amount of 12s are available in the clan.

I certainly can't see any reason to put TH9s in the lineup..

/Affront

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Agreed. Many rushed accounts are actually going to be better for CWL than maxer accounts in the same clan. That is what I meant about people talking about rushed accounts being weak on defense are missing the point. Many rushed accounts are stronger on defense than lower level maxer accounts. Sure, a rushed th11 isn’t as strong as a max th11, but it most likely is much stronger than a th9 in the same clan. Many of the players on global that get slammed for being rushed and told they can’t join clans will be desired in a few months when people figure this out, especially the lower hall clans. They will want a rushed th11 to join them since weight means nothing.

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Originally Posted by Affront

Exactly. League War is one attack and one defense. That makes the side that rushers and engineers have ignored very important.

You can't throw away 3 stars in the hope to be able to gain 4-6.. Because you only get one attack.

I'm sure that there is a loop hole in the new League War mechanics, but Engineered and rushed bases ain't it.

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Nobody is debating, weather a maxed th12 or a rushed/engineered one is better in CWL. Everybody should know that. The topic discussed is, if it is better for a newer player to max out their base at every th level or to rush to th12 as fast as possible and get one strong troop to max. And clearly the second way is much better for CWL. The rushed th12 will be better in every aspect compared to the maybe maxed th9, the player would be by that time.
If you compare a rushed base, that takes a year to build, with a maxed base, that takes five years, obviously rushing isn't the best way. But if you compare accounts after the same playing time, the rushed approach is clearly best. And that is the only comparison, that makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Skrags

Well, I'm a Maxer by trade, but I'm not particularly upset by this notion, as I see CWL as a farming/progression tool, not a glory pedestal.
I would agree however with your evaluation. Rushed TH12s will be advantageous overtime in certain tiers. They won't rule at the top ranks of CWL, as these will be frequented by Max TH12 rosters (hopefully fair play?!?).

That being said, I won't be rushing. There will be a distinction between CWL and regular Wars, as one is weight orientated, the other isn't. One is an avenue for progression, the other a purely glory game mode.
Each to their own as to which playstyle, progression path is chosen!
:)

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Exactly - it’s all about progressing in the game to reach the endgame state. I’ve said it before and I will say it again and again - until you are at the true endgame as a fully maxed player, glory just shouldn’t be your goal. Glory is for the maxed TH12 while progression is the name of the game for everyone else. Sure - have fun and some high fives along the way, but recognize that you cannot reach the pinnacle of glory until you are maxed.

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Originally Posted by Warios

War weight is so ingrained into people's ideas about war matching, once they can stop thinking about weight and th levels, and realize it is all about net stars gained or lost after 7 wars, they will be able to understand better.

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For some reason, this point keeps being missed. Giving up 3 stars in 7 campaigns is not the same as gaining 21 stars for your clan. And a rushed TH12 is far harder to beat than a maxed TH9 or TH10. I think, too, folks are assuming these rushed players will be members of clans that place high in the leagues and that just isn’t so. These are mixed level clans, likely occupying the middle leagues. East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet....

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Originally Posted by Hornswoggle

Nobody is debating, weather a maxed th12 or a rushed/engineered one is better in CWL. Everybody should know that. The topic discussed is, if it is better for a newer player to max out their base at every th level or to rush to th12 as fast as possible and get one strong troop to max. And clearly the second way is much better for CWL. The rushed th12 will be better in every aspect compared to the maybe maxed th9, the player would be by that time.
If you compare a rushed base, that takes a year to build, with a maxed base, that takes five years, obviously rushing isn't the best way. But if you compare accounts after the same playing time, the rushed approach is clearly best. And that is the only comparison, that makes sense.

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Actually, it’s more than just new players and extends to players with maxed TH9s and TH10s. Any way you cut it, though, there’s just no downside to a strategic rush in CWLs. Depending upon your clan, there may be other reasons to max but if those exist then you probably won’t be able to participate in CWLs anyway because it will only be the high level players who get to compete.

I really think we’re talking about two entirely different games here - the more homogenous, TH12 dominated clans, and everyone else. Mixed clans are a whole other world where rushing is already a norm and brings value to the table. All these, “rush so I can crush you” types just don’t seem to realize they won’t be seeing the rushed players to be able to crush them or, if they somehow do, their attack will need to be focused elsewhere and it will be some lowly TH9/TH10 that needs to attack the rushed TH12.

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Originally Posted by 2222

Agreed. Many rushed accounts are actually going to be better for CWL than maxer accounts in the same clan. That is what I meant about people talking about rushed accounts being weak on defense are missing the point. Many rushed accounts are stronger on defense than lower level maxer accounts. Sure, a rushed th11 isn’t as strong as a max th11, but it most likely is much stronger than a th9 in the same clan. Many of the players on global that get slammed for being rushed and told they can’t join clans will be desired in a few months when people figure this out, especially the lower hall clans. They will want a rushed th11 to join them since weight means nothing.

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Bingo - we are talking about strategically rushed games here. This is something SoD and I debated endlessly way back. He was more of a hyper-rusher - get what you need and upgrade right away to reach the final level - whereas as I have always favored and recommended a strategic rush where you upgrade key troops, key defenses, and so forth. Strategic rushers do very well in classic Clan Wars and are an asset to their clan from the get-go whereas hyper-rushers take a bit to get things caught up and are more focused on farming than war. This will be no different, ESPECIALLY when you get just one attack per player.

For new players, rushing has always been the superior choice for rapid advancement. What you can do in a year as a rusher vs what you can do in a year as a maxer...there’s just no comparison. You get access to far more of everything so much more quickly - defense, troops, resources, even builders come more quickly as an F2Per because you’ll complete gem giving achievements quicker. The time to reach maxed levels are also dramatically shortened as is the time investment required to get there. With recent changes to costs, build times, and so on...it’s even faster.

In the end, it’s all about playing the game your way. If your CDO dictates you gotta finish each level before advancing - knock yourself out. If you want the most fulfilling game, with access to all CoC has to offer, and you want it quickly, it’s a no-brainer to rush strategically. Just like on the BB, I suspect we will see complaint threads here on the forums from those who are in the middle leagues as maxers getting stomped by rushers in an offense-centric game where they chose to go a different route and hyper-rushers who just don’t understand why they can’t get ahead.

:thumbsup: Agree with everything in your post. Well written, Sir!

Maxing every single building isn't the way since 2016. Not maxing was bad for farming because you would see less loot on lower bases because of the loot penalty. While there still is a loot penalty, it exists only on paper between Gold (or even Silver one) and Master league because, starting from the April 2016 update, you tend to see bases of your TH level, therefore, almost negating the 50% penalty from bases two ths lower. It also created an ideal farming setting in th10 - rushing to th10 and doing collector raids only against th10s (with 0 penalty) is where the loot is. You have a 50% penalty against th8s, but th8 vs th8 tends to be a worse collector raid compare to th10 vs th10. You shouldn't want to see th8s if you have efficiency in mind...

April 2016 was a huge buff to rushing/engineering.

Ok, moving on from that.

The second step of the equation is the damage - in offense and defense. Some people literally can't see the math through the shiny graphics no matter how many times you explain the basics to them. In the end, you can't understand it for them. But here we go again...

Having a lvl 3 inferno tower and th7 cannons is better than having max th8 cannons when it comes to the effective DPS your base will deal to opposing troops. New defenses usually make up for max defenses when it comes to raw numbers, and it's even more glaring when said defenses are stuff like mortars...

When it comes to offense, th10 gives you CC siege, miners and bowlers, th11 gives you a warden. Warden is the big shot in this equation, since his aura gives a significant boost to the troops you're using - up to 275 at lvl 20. This means your troops are alive for longer, which means, more damage per second, which means more eDPS. Yes, there is that guy that can use a couple max pekkas in CWL, but getting the warden ASAP is usually more bang for your buck.

Now, let's talk about SC's CWL:

Your war weight doesn't matter after the very first matchmaking, which means that the inferno/eagle/giga tesla/extra WTs and Xbows weight doesn't matter, but their DPS do. While your low HP defenses will give %s, strategic rushing can give you more defensive bang for your buck compared to maxing mortars, bomb towers or even cannons/ATs. If you look at the state of surgical attacks and the gloomy horizon ahead of them (tornado trap shuffling stuff), a core of max infernos, EA, teslas and GT can be more effective at preventing 3 stars than maxing every single cannon, AT, trap, etc. in previous TH levels.

All things considered, no, maxing ths below th11 don't make a lot of sense but you can do whatever you want. Just don't say "it's better" and it's ok.

"Rushing to th12, then?"

In theory, yes, but it's considerably easier to get a max AQ and a decent queen in lower ths, especially if mid-to-late th11s decide to rush to th12 for the GT post patch, creating a potential loot drought. Rushing to th11 seems to be reasonably safe and you actually unlock "most offensive stuff", so you can actually practice against end game stuff. While maxing lower ths is a terrible idea since April 2016 (some people are waiting SC to fix engineering, so their house rules make sense, until this day...), maxing heroes in th11 isn't terrible in my book, especially if people rush like crazy to th11. Since TH12s also farm th11s, easy loot from 10s might be the way (as a th10 or th11).

Tl,dr: While the right way to strategic rush still has some questions surrounding it, maxing th8/9 isn't the answer, especially considering the new feature for competitive players removes weight from the MM.

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Originally Posted by LordSk

Where rushing to 12 may help in CWL, it could destroy a clans normal clan wars.

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I actually disagree with this. We have experimented with adding our th12 donation account to our 3-th12 lineup and the results have not been bad. Even though the donation account could in theory be 3 starred by a th9, often they waste a th11 attack on it, and sometimes it even defends (its layout does well against spam attacks and even a level 1 single target inferno can kill a passing aq).

Talking it over, multiple people will be rushing their alts to 12. I don't think anybody will be doing it with their main. We'll see how having 4 "donation" accounts will affect our random spin wars. If it's bad, we'll just leave those accounts out.

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Originally Posted by Hornswoggle

The topic discussed is, if it is better for a newer player to max out their base at every th level or to rush to th12 as fast as possible and get one strong troop to max.

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I don't know if anybody's advocating that. Mathematically it might be superior but in practice most folks need time at lower TH levels to learn how to attack. When people post "should I upgrade my th?" threads I think, if you have to ask, then the answer is no.

But for your brand new alt that's designed for war (league war or random spins), in your mixed clan with some th12s and a wide range of other levels, yes, absolutely rush. The main question in my mind is where you should stop to backfill heroes, and you can make a good case for that point being 10, 11 or 12.

[IMG]http://i67.tinypic.com/11l5vg1.jpg[/IMG]
Its the same when you rush XD

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Originally Posted by Faran007

[IMG]http://i67.tinypic.com/11l5vg1.jpg[/IMG]
Its the same when you rush XD

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Not if you do it with the right strategy for rushing.

As the discussion is a lot about rushed th 12 vs max th 11 or 12, I wanted to ad an point of view from my clan.
We have 1 th 12, about 4-6 th 11 and maybe 10 th 10 and some th 9 and lower...
As we are an cw Clan we have only maxed out Players (for their th level) and I personally think the real point is missing in this discussion. I think the main question is skill.
None of our th 10s has any trouble in killing an really rushed th 12 nor an maxed th 9. But if I could decide I would prefer the attacking th 9 if both were played by the same Player.
So will I as nearly max th 10 (typically the 10 or 11 in our matchup) be affraid of rushed th 12? I dont think so. Most rushed players attack very poorly (even with power potions ) because they never learned to handle the troops and they have weak heroes.

My clanmates on the other hand can crush most rushed enemies (even if they are th 12) and as we take quite some time in advancing defense most of our th 10 are capable of making an normal th 11 quite struggle. Have fun trying to crush them with your low level heroes.

The only thing I m afraid of is a skilled engineered th11/12 with quite decent heroes and troops that really knows what it does. If we are talking about them yes they might be stronger than me and my clanmates for about 2 month (2 cwl) by this time we will have 10 th 11 as a lot of us are close to max.

To sum things up: -sry for writing so much
- I think rushing gives you an advantage in cwl compared to max th 9
-I don't think you will dominate anywhere with rushing because most clans have enough th 10 to face you


If you made it to the bottom. Congratulations and thanks for reading all this. I welcome you on my first comment ever in this forum. Last but not least. Greetings out to everyone out there from Germany. And remember. The most important thing in an game is to enjoy playing it.

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Originally Posted by BlackSarlacc

As the discussion is a lot about rushed th 12 vs max th 11 or 12, I wanted to ad an point of view from my clan.
We have 1 th 12, about 4-6 th 11 and maybe 10 th 10 and some th 9 and lower...
As we are an cw Clan we have only maxed out Players (for their th level) and I personally think the real point is missing in this discussion. I think the main question is skill.
None of our th 10s has any trouble in killing an really rushed th 12 nor an maxed th 9. But if I could decide I would prefer the attacking th 9 if both were played by the same Player.
So will I as nearly max th 10 (typically the 10 or 11 in our matchup) be affraid of rushed th 12? I dont think so. Most rushed players attack very poorly (even with power potions ) because they never learned to handle the troops and they have weak heroes.

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Again - the point that really keeps on being missed here is that a clan like yours won’t be in the same league as clans with rushed TH12s and if you ever do come across a strategically rushed TH12 in a CWL war, he’ll almost certainly pull 3 stars for his clan’s total while requiring one of your TH12s’ attacks to achieve the same. which is all you want in a league tournament where the total stars across 7 battles will be combined in tally.

As a nearly maxed TH10, I seriously doubt you will be achieving three stars against my strategically rushed TH12 games with your TH10 level troops, but I can almost guarantee I will get three stars against your TH10 game using that rushed TH12 whereas hitting you with one of my TH10s I am more likely to pull a 2-star. And TH9 might as well not even bother.

The difference is between the type of rushing - something I have blogged about in some detail for a few years now. I think you guys are talking about players who rush, pell-mell, without a plan. Those games are going to settle in below your ranking both initially and as W:L ratings take hold so they really won’t be a factor. The rushed TH12s that will be challenging are the ones put together by strategic rushers who, like engineers, understand the ins and outs of the game.

For example - I have a TH12 that is largely the equivalent of a maxed TH10 in defense. This game has maxed key defenses such as X-bows, Inferno Towers, and so forth to juice its defense up. On the offense side, it is mostly 1 level below maxed for troops and spells (was maxed until TH12 hit, so I’m working on it again). Heroes are 26/27/20. It was designed to be a donation account but it does just fine in wars, usually giving less stars than it takes and almost always requiring a TH12 to get the stars it gives up at that. This game will do very well in CWLs and there are not any TH10 and under players out there who will be pulling three stars against it - they’ve tried and sometimes might get one star.

This is the kind of rushed TH12 that will do well in CWLs and we have several in our clan, so I expect to be ranked higher and hold a higher tier than if we all had maxed TH9s and TH10s instead. You guys have the right to think you’re going to smash these rushed TH12s with your TH9s and TH10s, but I suspect you will find yourself very disappointed. CWLs will be skill based ranking - these poor attacking, hyper-rushed TH12 games you’re accustomed to seeing in classic clan wars will drop leagues fast (if they even seed very high). Maxed clans are going to be primarily TH11/TH12 max/near-max participants while mixed clans with maxers will quickly be at a disadvantage, just like we see on the individual level with the BB.

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Originally Posted by littledoctor

I actually disagree with this. We have experimented with adding our th12 donation account to our 3-th12 lineup and the results have not been bad. Even though the donation account could in theory be 3 starred by a th9, often they waste a th11 attack on it, and sometimes it even defends (its layout does well against spam attacks and even a level 1 single target inferno can kill a passing aq).

Talking it over, multiple people will be rushing their alts to 12. I don't think anybody will be doing it with their main. We'll see how having 4 "donation" accounts will affect our random spin wars. If it's bad, we'll just leave those accounts out.

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I see your anecdote and raise you another.

We had a very weak TH11 player decide to go TH12 when the rest of the max/near max TH11s did when TH12 dropped. The player was at the bottom of our TH12 listing, but ahead of all other bases in our lineup. Unfortunately for us, this base was always 3 starred by one of the other TH12s (sometimes by a lower TH) from the opposing lineup, and then they had an additional TH12 attack to let loose anywhere else. Meanwhile, our weak TH12 player had a hard time 3 starring a maxed out TH9. On the flip side we had a hard time having to 3 star another TH12, we usually didn't and it cost us wars.

In the end, I relegated that player to the sidelines until after we came off a loss, then the player got to play when our win streak was 0 or 1. Once the win streak became 2 I benched them again. Sadly, this player still wanted to keep warring, even though it was costing us matches and they decided to leave. It seemed like they left on decent terms.

I agree with the concept that a TH12 player with low heroes will do better when paired against a TH9 player in CWL. However, If you include said player in roster, then I believe on the first CWL week that player will have to face a TH12 in all 7 matches. It would take a few CWL weeks of losses before said clan would fall to a league where the TH12 would be competitive against other TH10s. If said player is not in the first week's roster, then it's possible the player could enjoy an advantage for CWL weeks 2 and on until things reach equilibrium.

Why are people trying to stop people from rushing. Just let them rush for gawd's sake.

it really doesnt matter if you max, rush, engineer or whatever other style of play you want to bring up. Within a few CWL seasons, you and your clan will be facing fairly equal competitors. Win and rise to your own level, lose and fall to your own level, sit in the middle of the pack most of the time? You are AT your correct level. Doesnt matter if you rush or engineer or not, you WILL reach your clan's natural level.

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Originally Posted by Noctaire

Again - the point that really keeps on being missed here is that a clan like yours won’t be in the same league as clans with rushed TH12s and if you ever do come across a strategically rushed TH12 in a CWL war, he’ll almost certainly pull 3 stars for his clan’s total while requiring one of your TH12s’ attacks to achieve the same. which is all you want in a league tournament where the total stars across 7 battles will be combined in tally.

As a nearly maxed TH10, I seriously doubt you will be achieving three stars against my strategically rushed TH12 games with your TH10 level troops, but I can almost guarantee I will get three stars against your TH10 game using that rushed TH12 whereas hitting you with one of my TH10s I am more likely to pull a 2-star. And TH9 might as well not even bother.

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Originally Posted by BlackSarlacc

The only thing I m afraid of is a skilled engineered th11/12 with quite decent heroes and troops that really knows what it does. If we are talking about them yes they might be stronger than me and my clanmates for about 2 month (2 cwl) by this time we will have 10 th 11 as a lot of us are close to max.

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Agreed. Your way of rushing is quite strong. I just don't think that's what OP meant with rushing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlackSarlacc

As the discussion is a lot about rushed th 12 vs max th 11 or 12, I wanted to ad an point of view from my clan.
We have 1 th 12, about 4-6 th 11 and maybe 10 th 10 and some th 9 and lower...
As we are an cw Clan we have only maxed out Players (for their th level) and I personally think the real point is missing in this discussion. I think the main question is skill.
None of our th 10s has any trouble in killing an really rushed th 12 nor an maxed th 9. But if I could decide I would prefer the attacking th 9 if both were played by the same Player.
So will I as nearly max th 10 (typically the 10 or 11 in our matchup) be affraid of rushed th 12? I dont think so. Most rushed players attack very poorly (even with power potions ) because they never learned to handle the troops and they have weak heroes.

My clanmates on the other hand can crush most rushed enemies (even if they are th 12) and as we take quite some time in advancing defense most of our th 10 are capable of making an normal th 11 quite struggle. Have fun trying to crush them with your low level heroes.

The only thing I m afraid of is a skilled engineered th11/12 with quite decent heroes and troops that really knows what it does. If we are talking about them yes they might be stronger than me and my clanmates for about 2 month (2 cwl) by this time we will have 10 th 11 as a lot of us are close to max.

To sum things up: -sry for writing so much
- I think rushing gives you an advantage in cwl compared to max th 9
-I don't think you will dominate anywhere with rushing because most clans have enough th 10 to face you


If you made it to the bottom. Congratulations and thanks for reading all this. I welcome you on my first comment ever in this forum. Last but not least. Greetings out to everyone out there from Germany. And remember. The most important thing in an game is to enjoy playing it.

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I don’t think anyone is missing the skill issue, it just isn’t all that relevant. Take your skilled max th9s and th10s. They would be better for clan war leagues if they moved to th11. They are still just as skilled, but now will have more power on offense AND defense. Since there is no weight to consider, there is no disadvantage in war leagues. There may be a disadvantage in regular wars.

You say your maxed th10 has no trouble beating a rushed th12, but that doesn’t matter. The discussion here isn’t about whether it is better to be a maxed th12 or rushed th12. It is more like should that player stay at th9 trying to max or should they strategically rush to th11 or th12? Your max th10 would have no problem beating them if they stayed at th9. It would be harder for your max th10 to beat them if they dropped an eagle and a couple infernos AND that guy will have an easier time beating your th10 with his new th11 offense than he would as a th9.

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Originally Posted by Tosti111

it really doesnt matter if you max, rush, engineer or whatever other style of play you want to bring up. Within a few CWL seasons, you and your clan will be facing fairly equal competitors. Win and rise to your own level, lose and fall to your own level, sit in the middle of the pack most of the time? You are AT your correct level. Doesnt matter if you rush or engineer or not, you WILL reach your clan's natural level.

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I agree with completely. CWL winning mechanics is a lot like the builder base. You won't win or lose all the time. You'll find your league and it will take some effort to grow out of it or lack of play to fall out of it.

I also agree that rushing can be beneficial especially if we see a swing toward defense in the next update. It sounds like it is going to be much harder to three star with the defensive buffs. So rushing would have less of an impact defensively as a result. I also agree with OP that you can rush as long as you have at least one offensive combo maxed out in the lab for war and farming.

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Originally Posted by chiefillini

I agree with completely. CWL winning mechanics is a lot like the builder base. You won't win or lose all the time. You'll find your league and it will take some effort to grow out of it or lack of play to fall out of it.

I also agree that rushing can be beneficial especially if we see a swing toward defense in the next update. It sounds like it is going to be much harder to three star with the defensive buffs. So rushing would have less of an impact defensively as a result. I also agree with OP that you can rush as long as you have at least one offensive combo maxed out in the lab for war and farming.

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I agree except for the part about rushing having less of an impact defensively because that suggests there is some negative to rushing. A properly rushed base will be stronger on defense, not weaker, than if the player instead stayed back at a lower hall spending gold on walls or defensive upgrades. Strategic rushing makes the base stronger on offense and defense.

If you dont mind getting bulldozed over and over and over and over and over and over and over...should I keep going? I can but I think you get my point. Sure you may be able to help get more war stars but you will hurt your clan by being an easy three star.

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Originally Posted by Shadrach777

I see your anecdote and raise you another.

We had a very weak TH11 player

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I spotted the problem. :)

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Originally Posted by Shadrach777

I agree with the concept that a TH12 player with low heroes will do better when paired against a TH9 player in CWL. However, If you include said player in roster, then I believe on the first CWL week that player will have to face a TH12 in all 7 matches. It would take a few CWL weeks of losses before said clan would fall to a league where the TH12 would be competitive against other TH10s. If said player is not in the first week's roster, then it's possible the player could enjoy an advantage for CWL weeks 2 and on until things reach equilibrium.

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Agreed; our rushed 12s will not be 12s yet when the first league season occurs. They'll be replacing Th9s (and possibly below) in our lineup.

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Originally Posted by Noctaire

The rushed TH12s that will be challenging are the ones put together by strategic rushers who, like engineers, understand the ins and outs of the game.

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One of the things that's exciting about this update is the kinds of matchups that it enables that haven't been seen much in war yet. One group of clans are these small groups with a bunch of alts, including strategically rushed 12s. Another are the competitive friendly war clans. A third are the all-th12 clans that rarely match competitive friendly war clans in random spins. Normally these clans don't see each other much and I look forward to the recap videos.

If it is all about cwl I think you are right. Rushing will make you somewhat stronger. But as I mentioned I have an cw clan and we wont stop making wars in between cwl. Therefore I would not recommend anyone to rush if they want to play more than just cwl.
But in the end it's up to any player to optimize the gameplay for his target's so if it's cwl... go ahead and rush but do it the right way...

rushed th12 is the way to go in CWL, at least i think up to mid-high tiers... take this example : suppose all clans in the 8 cwl has one strong th10 at top, and 14 th9... suppose the th9 are all maxed out as offense, but mid defences. usually, each war ends up 44-44, because all th9 triple each other, and the th10 make 2 on opposites.... in this context, leave out a th9 and insert a rushed th12. see what happens ? the rushed th12, of course after maxing a few selected troops and spells and army camps, make 3 easy on top th10... now, i made a lot of assumptions in this example, but i'm sure that you got the general idea.... a rushed th12 will make the difference on top bases, and will have no difference in defence, at least up to a certain tier. i personally have an engineered th12 (all lv.1 defences, maxed army camps and labs and spell factories, all lv.1 troops and spells, lv. 20 gw and 25 queen/king... with a power potion, i have maxed th12 attack power, save for royals...i'm sure this will make our clan progress in the CWL way faster than a maxed th9...and i always have 7 power potion, partecipating in all clan games and events related to them...

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Originally Posted by CaptainMayhem

If you dont mind getting bulldozed over and over and over and over and over and over and over...should I keep going? I can but I think you get my point. Sure you may be able to help get more war stars but you will hurt your clan by being an easy three star.

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If you add more stars than you lose, it helps your clan. Others have done the math, I think even in this thread.

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Originally Posted by CaptainMayhem

If you dont mind getting bulldozed over and over and over and over and over and over and over...should I keep going? I can but I think you get my point. Sure you may be able to help get more war stars but you will hurt your clan by being an easy three star.

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Completely wrong. I have a close to max th9. Do you think it will be stronger on defense if I continue to put gold into my walls and last couple cannon upgrades or stronger if I rush to th10 and drop some infernos with that gold? Strategic rushing will make an account stronger on offense AND DEFENSE.

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Originally Posted by BlackSarlacc

As the discussion is a lot about rushed th 12 vs max th 11 or 12, I wanted to ad an point of view from my clan.
None of our th 10s has any trouble in killing an really rushed th 12 nor an maxed th 9. But if I could decide I would prefer the attacking th 9 if both were played by the same Player.
So will I as nearly max th 10 (typically the 10 or 11 in our matchup) be affraid of rushed th 12? I dont think so. Most rushed players attack very poorly (even with power potions ) because they never learned to handle the troops and they have weak heroes.

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U do know that a max th10 can 3 stars max th9 is not a skill. That’s expected. Ur just average if u can do that, bad if u can’t. A skillful player can 3 stars his th level with similar weight (yes, it’s rare, especially at 10s but do exist on some that permanently stays at that lv). That is “skill”.
Now about the rushed, question is always how rushed? It’s hard to judge without knowing that.

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Originally Posted by 2222

Completely wrong. I have a close to max th9. Do you think it will be stronger on defense if I continue to put gold into my walls and last couple cannon upgrades or stronger if I rush to th10 and drop some infernos with that gold? Strategic rushing will make an account stronger on offense AND DEFENSE.

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If your almost maxed, I wouldn't consider you rushed. When I think of rushed, I think of an account with 2+th lower level defenses and lower level heroes. If you have max heroes but lower level defenses, I would call you engineered. While your correct that you allow yourself the ability to have some higher level defenses and increase your overall defense ability does not discount the fact your a weak target to someone who isnt rushed. Sc is not allowing for as even distribution on a 1 vs 1 scenario due to engineers taking it to the extreme.

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Originally Posted by Hanofee

U do know that a max th10 can 3 stars max th9 is not a skill. That’s expected. Ur just average if u can do that, bad if u can’t. A skillful player can 3 stars his th level with similar weight (yes, it’s rare, especially at 10s but do exist on some that permanently stays at that lv). That is “skill”.

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I think you misunderstood me. I wanted to say both (non strategic) rushed th 12 and th 9 is easy so I don't care what the enemy is.
I regularly 3 star th 10 and appreciate to fight against equal opponents but that's not the discussion here... hope this makes it more clearly

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Originally Posted by CaptainMayhem

If your almost maxed, I wouldn't consider you rushed. When I think of rushed, I think of an account with 2+th lower level defenses and lower level heroes. If you have max heroes but lower level defenses, I would call you engineered. While your correct that you allow yourself the ability to have some higher level defenses and increase your overall defense ability does not discount the fact your a weak target to someone who isnt rushed. Sc is not allowing for as even distribution on a 1 vs 1 scenario due to engineers taking it to the extreme.

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I’m talking about that almost maxed th9 deciding to rush ahead to th10 or th11 or th12. It will become stronger on offense and defense, that is the part I think you are missing. The account gets better on both sides. There is no disadvantage for CWL. With the weighting system of regular wars and the big weights that are thought to exist for dropping certain defenses the first time, that is different, but in CWL it is all advantage if done correctly.

The part I bolted doesn’t make sense to me. If you are stronger on defense you are stronger on defense. What are you referring to with regard to being a weak target? You are a stronger target, not a weaker target. It almost sounds like you think there is some sort of hall matching in CWL. There isn’t.