Rushing is the new way to go or not?

Those talking about the rushed account giving up 3 stars easier are missing the point. A strategically rushed account is HARDER to 3 star. A player can strategically rush to th11 or th12 in the same amount of time as a close to max th9 and the rushed one will be better on offense AND defense. The only reason people have a negative view of a “Rushed” account is because of the heavy war weight some of those big defenses carry in regular wars but that doesn’t matter in CWL. Ignore the color of the hall, make your defense and offense as strong as possible as fast as possible. We have multiple rushed accounts in my clan that we don’t allow into our regular wars, but you can bet they will be in our CWL rather than our max th8s, th9s and some th10s.

Edit: An example to prove the point: What would be stronger on defense, a close to max th9 that moves to th10 and builds an inferno or the same th9 instead staying at th9 and putting that gold into walls? The new th10 with the inferno is harder to 3 star and while becoming stronger on defense that same player can also upgrade a troop, spell, etc. to become stronger on offense. That rushed th10 is now stronger on offense and defense than the close to max th9.

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Originally Posted by 2222

Those talking about the rushed account giving up 3 stars easier are missing the point. A strategically rushed account is HARDER to 3 star. A player can strategically rush to th11 or th12 in the same amount of time as a close to max th9 and the rushed one will be better on offense AND defense. The only reason people have a negative view of a “Rushed” account is because of the heavy war weight some of those big defenses carry in regular wars but that doesn’t matter in CWL. Ignore the color of the hall, make your defense and offense as strong as possible as fast as possible. We have multiple rushed accounts in my clan that we don’t allow into our regular wars, but you can bet they will be in our CWL rather than our max th8s, th9s and some th10s.

Edit: An example to prove the point: What would be stronger on defense, a close to max th9 that moves to th10 and builds an inferno or the same th9 instead staying at th9 and putting that gold into walls? The new th10 with the inferno is harder to 3 star and while becoming stronger on defense that same player can also upgrade a troop, spell, etc. to become stronger on offense. That rushed th10 is now stronger on offense and defense than the close to max th9.

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War weight is so ingrained into people's ideas about war matching, once they can stop thinking about weight and th levels, and realize it is all about net stars gained or lost after 7 wars, they will be able to understand better.

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Originally Posted by Warios

War weight is so ingrained into people's ideas about war matching, once they can stop thinking about weight and th levels, and realize it is all about net stars gained or lost after 7 wars, they will be able to understand better.

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Exactly. League War is one attack and one defense. That makes the side that rushers and engineers have ignored very important.

You can't throw away 3 stars in the hope to be able to gain 4-6.. Because you only get one attack.

I'm sure that there is a loop hole in the new League War mechanics, but Engineered and rushed bases ain't it.

I'm not even sure that there is a reason to put anything less than 15 th12s in the initial lineup, if that amount of 12s are available in the clan.

I certainly can't see any reason to put TH9s in the lineup..

/Affront

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Originally Posted by Affront

Exactly. League War is one attack and one defense. That makes the side that rushers and engineers have ignored very important.

You can't throw away 3 stars in the hope to be able to gain 4-6.. Because you only get one attack.

I'm sure that there is a loop hole in the new League War mechanics, but Engineered and rushed bases ain't it.

I'm not even sure that there is a reason to put anything less than 15 th12s in the initial lineup, if that amount of 12s are available in the clan.

I certainly can't see any reason to put TH9s in the lineup..

/Affront

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Agreed. Many rushed accounts are actually going to be better for CWL than maxer accounts in the same clan. That is what I meant about people talking about rushed accounts being weak on defense are missing the point. Many rushed accounts are stronger on defense than lower level maxer accounts. Sure, a rushed th11 isn’t as strong as a max th11, but it most likely is much stronger than a th9 in the same clan. Many of the players on global that get slammed for being rushed and told they can’t join clans will be desired in a few months when people figure this out, especially the lower hall clans. They will want a rushed th11 to join them since weight means nothing.

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Originally Posted by Affront

Exactly. League War is one attack and one defense. That makes the side that rushers and engineers have ignored very important.

You can't throw away 3 stars in the hope to be able to gain 4-6.. Because you only get one attack.

I'm sure that there is a loop hole in the new League War mechanics, but Engineered and rushed bases ain't it.

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Nobody is debating, weather a maxed th12 or a rushed/engineered one is better in CWL. Everybody should know that. The topic discussed is, if it is better for a newer player to max out their base at every th level or to rush to th12 as fast as possible and get one strong troop to max. And clearly the second way is much better for CWL. The rushed th12 will be better in every aspect compared to the maybe maxed th9, the player would be by that time.
If you compare a rushed base, that takes a year to build, with a maxed base, that takes five years, obviously rushing isn't the best way. But if you compare accounts after the same playing time, the rushed approach is clearly best. And that is the only comparison, that makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Skrags

Well, I'm a Maxer by trade, but I'm not particularly upset by this notion, as I see CWL as a farming/progression tool, not a glory pedestal.
I would agree however with your evaluation. Rushed TH12s will be advantageous overtime in certain tiers. They won't rule at the top ranks of CWL, as these will be frequented by Max TH12 rosters (hopefully fair play?!?).

That being said, I won't be rushing. There will be a distinction between CWL and regular Wars, as one is weight orientated, the other isn't. One is an avenue for progression, the other a purely glory game mode.
Each to their own as to which playstyle, progression path is chosen!
:)

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Exactly - it’s all about progressing in the game to reach the endgame state. I’ve said it before and I will say it again and again - until you are at the true endgame as a fully maxed player, glory just shouldn’t be your goal. Glory is for the maxed TH12 while progression is the name of the game for everyone else. Sure - have fun and some high fives along the way, but recognize that you cannot reach the pinnacle of glory until you are maxed.

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Originally Posted by Warios

War weight is so ingrained into people's ideas about war matching, once they can stop thinking about weight and th levels, and realize it is all about net stars gained or lost after 7 wars, they will be able to understand better.

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For some reason, this point keeps being missed. Giving up 3 stars in 7 campaigns is not the same as gaining 21 stars for your clan. And a rushed TH12 is far harder to beat than a maxed TH9 or TH10. I think, too, folks are assuming these rushed players will be members of clans that place high in the leagues and that just isn’t so. These are mixed level clans, likely occupying the middle leagues. East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet....

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Originally Posted by Hornswoggle

Nobody is debating, weather a maxed th12 or a rushed/engineered one is better in CWL. Everybody should know that. The topic discussed is, if it is better for a newer player to max out their base at every th level or to rush to th12 as fast as possible and get one strong troop to max. And clearly the second way is much better for CWL. The rushed th12 will be better in every aspect compared to the maybe maxed th9, the player would be by that time.
If you compare a rushed base, that takes a year to build, with a maxed base, that takes five years, obviously rushing isn't the best way. But if you compare accounts after the same playing time, the rushed approach is clearly best. And that is the only comparison, that makes sense.

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Actually, it’s more than just new players and extends to players with maxed TH9s and TH10s. Any way you cut it, though, there’s just no downside to a strategic rush in CWLs. Depending upon your clan, there may be other reasons to max but if those exist then you probably won’t be able to participate in CWLs anyway because it will only be the high level players who get to compete.

I really think we’re talking about two entirely different games here - the more homogenous, TH12 dominated clans, and everyone else. Mixed clans are a whole other world where rushing is already a norm and brings value to the table. All these, “rush so I can crush you” types just don’t seem to realize they won’t be seeing the rushed players to be able to crush them or, if they somehow do, their attack will need to be focused elsewhere and it will be some lowly TH9/TH10 that needs to attack the rushed TH12.

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Originally Posted by 2222

Agreed. Many rushed accounts are actually going to be better for CWL than maxer accounts in the same clan. That is what I meant about people talking about rushed accounts being weak on defense are missing the point. Many rushed accounts are stronger on defense than lower level maxer accounts. Sure, a rushed th11 isn’t as strong as a max th11, but it most likely is much stronger than a th9 in the same clan. Many of the players on global that get slammed for being rushed and told they can’t join clans will be desired in a few months when people figure this out, especially the lower hall clans. They will want a rushed th11 to join them since weight means nothing.

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Bingo - we are talking about strategically rushed games here. This is something SoD and I debated endlessly way back. He was more of a hyper-rusher - get what you need and upgrade right away to reach the final level - whereas as I have always favored and recommended a strategic rush where you upgrade key troops, key defenses, and so forth. Strategic rushers do very well in classic Clan Wars and are an asset to their clan from the get-go whereas hyper-rushers take a bit to get things caught up and are more focused on farming than war. This will be no different, ESPECIALLY when you get just one attack per player.

For new players, rushing has always been the superior choice for rapid advancement. What you can do in a year as a rusher vs what you can do in a year as a maxer...there’s just no comparison. You get access to far more of everything so much more quickly - defense, troops, resources, even builders come more quickly as an F2Per because you’ll complete gem giving achievements quicker. The time to reach maxed levels are also dramatically shortened as is the time investment required to get there. With recent changes to costs, build times, and so on...it’s even faster.

In the end, it’s all about playing the game your way. If your CDO dictates you gotta finish each level before advancing - knock yourself out. If you want the most fulfilling game, with access to all CoC has to offer, and you want it quickly, it’s a no-brainer to rush strategically. Just like on the BB, I suspect we will see complaint threads here on the forums from those who are in the middle leagues as maxers getting stomped by rushers in an offense-centric game where they chose to go a different route and hyper-rushers who just don’t understand why they can’t get ahead.

:thumbsup: Agree with everything in your post. Well written, Sir!

Maxing every single building isn't the way since 2016. Not maxing was bad for farming because you would see less loot on lower bases because of the loot penalty. While there still is a loot penalty, it exists only on paper between Gold (or even Silver one) and Master league because, starting from the April 2016 update, you tend to see bases of your TH level, therefore, almost negating the 50% penalty from bases two ths lower. It also created an ideal farming setting in th10 - rushing to th10 and doing collector raids only against th10s (with 0 penalty) is where the loot is. You have a 50% penalty against th8s, but th8 vs th8 tends to be a worse collector raid compare to th10 vs th10. You shouldn't want to see th8s if you have efficiency in mind...

April 2016 was a huge buff to rushing/engineering.

Ok, moving on from that.

The second step of the equation is the damage - in offense and defense. Some people literally can't see the math through the shiny graphics no matter how many times you explain the basics to them. In the end, you can't understand it for them. But here we go again...

Having a lvl 3 inferno tower and th7 cannons is better than having max th8 cannons when it comes to the effective DPS your base will deal to opposing troops. New defenses usually make up for max defenses when it comes to raw numbers, and it's even more glaring when said defenses are stuff like mortars...

When it comes to offense, th10 gives you CC siege, miners and bowlers, th11 gives you a warden. Warden is the big shot in this equation, since his aura gives a significant boost to the troops you're using - up to 275 at lvl 20. This means your troops are alive for longer, which means, more damage per second, which means more eDPS. Yes, there is that guy that can use a couple max pekkas in CWL, but getting the warden ASAP is usually more bang for your buck.

Now, let's talk about SC's CWL:

Your war weight doesn't matter after the very first matchmaking, which means that the inferno/eagle/giga tesla/extra WTs and Xbows weight doesn't matter, but their DPS do. While your low HP defenses will give %s, strategic rushing can give you more defensive bang for your buck compared to maxing mortars, bomb towers or even cannons/ATs. If you look at the state of surgical attacks and the gloomy horizon ahead of them (tornado trap shuffling stuff), a core of max infernos, EA, teslas and GT can be more effective at preventing 3 stars than maxing every single cannon, AT, trap, etc. in previous TH levels.

All things considered, no, maxing ths below th11 don't make a lot of sense but you can do whatever you want. Just don't say "it's better" and it's ok.

"Rushing to th12, then?"

In theory, yes, but it's considerably easier to get a max AQ and a decent queen in lower ths, especially if mid-to-late th11s decide to rush to th12 for the GT post patch, creating a potential loot drought. Rushing to th11 seems to be reasonably safe and you actually unlock "most offensive stuff", so you can actually practice against end game stuff. While maxing lower ths is a terrible idea since April 2016 (some people are waiting SC to fix engineering, so their house rules make sense, until this day...), maxing heroes in th11 isn't terrible in my book, especially if people rush like crazy to th11. Since TH12s also farm th11s, easy loot from 10s might be the way (as a th10 or th11).

Tl,dr: While the right way to strategic rush still has some questions surrounding it, maxing th8/9 isn't the answer, especially considering the new feature for competitive players removes weight from the MM.

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Originally Posted by LordSk

Where rushing to 12 may help in CWL, it could destroy a clans normal clan wars.

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I actually disagree with this. We have experimented with adding our th12 donation account to our 3-th12 lineup and the results have not been bad. Even though the donation account could in theory be 3 starred by a th9, often they waste a th11 attack on it, and sometimes it even defends (its layout does well against spam attacks and even a level 1 single target inferno can kill a passing aq).

Talking it over, multiple people will be rushing their alts to 12. I don't think anybody will be doing it with their main. We'll see how having 4 "donation" accounts will affect our random spin wars. If it's bad, we'll just leave those accounts out.

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Originally Posted by Hornswoggle

The topic discussed is, if it is better for a newer player to max out their base at every th level or to rush to th12 as fast as possible and get one strong troop to max.

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I don't know if anybody's advocating that. Mathematically it might be superior but in practice most folks need time at lower TH levels to learn how to attack. When people post "should I upgrade my th?" threads I think, if you have to ask, then the answer is no.

But for your brand new alt that's designed for war (league war or random spins), in your mixed clan with some th12s and a wide range of other levels, yes, absolutely rush. The main question in my mind is where you should stop to backfill heroes, and you can make a good case for that point being 10, 11 or 12.

[IMG]http://i67.tinypic.com/11l5vg1.jpg[/IMG]
Its the same when you rush XD