Does Clan War Leagues make you strongly consider maxing your engineered bases?

Based on what has been shared so far, are people now considering maxing out your engineered bases if you are including them in the CWL?

I spoke with clan leader over the weekend, and stated we would build our roster based on whoever has the highest heroes and is available to war. This would mean my engineered TH11 has a spot, but his weaker than full TH11 defenses gives me pause. I am considering adding all the new defenses that come with TH11, but I really wanted to get all his walls to level 11 before adding any new defenses.

I'm wondering how the rewards will differ when compared to clan wars.

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Originally Posted by Shadrach777

Based on what has been shared so far, are people now considering maxing out your engineered bases if you are including them in the CWL?

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Unless I missed something there doesn't appear to have been enough information released to go any particular direction with any particular group of accounts and given that information that does get released is often different than reality, I'm not sure it matters until we can see it. Does it ?

Been a little busy & haven't really looked at the war leagues -or maybe when I did, there weren't details or I didn't understand them.

All engineering flows our of the matchmaker, how will matches be made in the leagues? I don't know yet.

Based on the fact the CWL is only one week a month and only 15 bases are required to participate, I don't see why engineering can't continue as normal, especially if the clan doesn't care about CWL. Even if they do care about CWL, with only 15 required, you could certainly do both in any given clan. Would be more work, but you could have your CWL bases and your normal war bases all in the same clan.

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Originally Posted by TankSinatra

Been a little busy & haven't really looked at the war leagues -or maybe when I did, there weren't details or I didn't understand them.

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Originally Posted by TankSinatra

All engineering flows our of the matchmaker, how will matches be made in the leagues? I don't know yet.

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It's like the Builder Base matchmaker. Engineering is meaningless there. You move up or down "tiers" based on total stars won in your "tier". Basically each CWL week you are matched with 7 other random clans in your tier and you have a round robin of wars. You move up or down or stay in the current tier based on where your clan ranked star-wise at the end of the CWL week. At least if I understand it correctly.

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Originally Posted by Thegreatpuma

Based on the fact the CWL is only one week a month and only 15 bases are required to participate, I don't see why engineering can't continue as normal, especially if the clan doesn't care about CWL. Even if they do care about CWL, with only 15 required, you could certainly do both in any given clan. Would be more work, but you could have your CWL bases and your normal war bases all in the same clan.



It's like the Builder Base matchmaker. Engineering is meaningless there. You move up or down "tiers" based on total stars won in your "tier". Basically each CWL week you are matched with 7 other random clans in your tier and you have a round robin of wars. You move up or down or stay in the current tier based on where your clan ranked star-wise at the end of the CWL week. At least if I understand it correctly.

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Ok pure ladder based. Sounds like it won't be much fun unless you're heavy on th12s.

At first I think it will be crazy. But I think it might be a lot of fun. Trying to figure out how to maximize your stars every war with the one attack per base limit in mind. Especially when you have a lopsided single war in your tier.

I will just not use my engineered accounts for the cwl. Just use them for normal wars. Do CWL with anchor accounts. Just as it always will be, a real engineer adapts.

CWL as currently proposed has no effect on engineering. You can not engineer past Th11 and maxing your engineered bases won't do you much good since CWL is ladder based and you will eventually meet impossible to beat opponents (lots of th12s). Furthermore, movement along the ladder is a bit restricted. 1/8 clans get moved up or down a tier each month; having engineered bases may make your move up difficult but you are unlikely to move too far down having them around. Darian, in the main thread, basically said that CWL is played mostly for loot anyway.

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Originally Posted by Thegreatpuma

At first I think it will be crazy. But I think it might be a lot of fun. Trying to figure out how to maximize your stars every war with the one attack per base limit in mind. Especially when you have a lopsided single war in your tier.

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I don't mind the addition for those that'll want it, but I didn't like this kind of system in Clash Royale and suspect I won't in reg clash. Hope it doesn't cannibalize accounts out of regular war, smaller pool would be an issue.

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Originally Posted by TankSinatra

I don't mind the addition for those that'll want it, but I didn't like this kind of system in Clash Royale and suspect I won't in reg clash. Hope it doesn't cannibalize accounts out of regular war, smaller pool would be an issue.

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Darian said that there will be no regular wars during the week CWL is in session. They can change their minds of course.

I wouldn't need to use my engineered bases for war since my min account is 119k WW with max heroes and max TH12 walls.

The rewards seem a little counter intuitive to the CWL wars since it seems to favour sandbagging as a max TH.

A clan member of mine suggested using CWSF United since league wars run for 1 week out of the month.

Sooo...

To answer your question, I doubt people are going to deviate from whatever goals they have with their engineered bases.

I tend to agree. Nothing that's been presented so far seems like it will have any effect on engineering/sandbagging. The only thing it does is provide some clans a reprieve from having to match engies in wars, for one week a month. I have a feeling though that this alternative may not be as great as many think - especially based on the consistent complaints about builder base matchups.

waiting for more information on CWL or sneak peaks to reveal more in details

From what I've read so far, CWL seems to be aimed at rewards and therefore progression, not skill or competition (except for the all max TH12s).
I'm viewing it like Clan Games.
In theory, you could actually lose all 7 of your daily wars (by for example 1 star), but still end up winning the 8 day league, if you have gained more total stars than all 7 of your opponents.

To quote Darian :-
"We said we were giving a reason to upgrade. We said you're going to want to upgrade. And we introduced multiple new ways to upgrade faster than ever."
https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...1#post11918985

I would save your best engineered bases for your regular wars.

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Originally Posted by stephenwanem

waiting for more information on CWL or sneak peaks to reveal more in details

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Yes, I find it's best not to get too caught up until things are actually released.

I find it hard finding real information on new updates with all the people complaining without all the details.

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Originally Posted by Shadrach777

Based on what has been shared so far, are people now considering maxing out your engineered bases if you are including them in the CWL?

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We don't have much in the way of engineered bases, but I don't see a huge impact from cwl, even ignoring the fact it's 1 week per month and 2/3 of the clan need to sit out anyway.

In current war there's little or no benefit in an engineered base omitted defences at level 1, except probably the EA. For cwl the benefit is rushing to TH12. It's an outright rush-to-win (like BB). So for an engineered base wanting to do well in cwl, just drop the EA and upgrade the TH. I doubt it will do any harm to performance in regular wars.

Well. My paranoia valve is pulsing. This is 25% of my concern becoming a reality.
I worried for a long time now, that they would go the BB route, and scrap the random war. Much easier for them, if they dont have to worry about weights, and constantly tweaking the MMA.
Whereas I dont have a problem with anything new that they add to the game. My concern now, is that if it becomes popular, and receives a warm welcome, then it will, in time, be the only way to war. Then engineering, and likewise anything less than top hall, will be far less than optimum.
Having said that, since regular war will be suspended, we will most likely participate. But I dont like those grey clouds that are gathering in the not too distant future.

Whose idea was it to call this new thing CWL? There's already a CWL.

Anyway, my big engineered accounts are mostly finished un-engineering because of how wars are now. My boutique engineered accounts will not be in the new league wars, and tbh I haven't been including them in our regular wars lately either because I can only handle so many war attacks at a time anyway.

My strategically rushed account, now, is where I'm not sure. It seems like the dominant strategy is going to be to rush all league war accounts to TH12 (it'll be like builder base where only raw capability matters, not how good you are compared to others of your TH level), but my long term plan was to keep this account at th10 until 40/40 heroes to take advantage of the phenomenal loot. Farming up in excess of 120 hero levels while at TH12 might be a little beyond my capability. But it seems like fielding bases without eagles will be a quick path to mediocreville. Need to see what the actual rewards for league wars will be, I think.

My TH11 account is my only engineered account, and since our clan is hurting on numbers for a solid 15 I have a slight inclination to make him un-engineered for CWL.

An engineered base usually gives up an easier 3 star to gain 6 stars in return. CWL says we can only attack once, so I give up an easy 3 star to gain an easy 3 star. As we start to advance in the leagues, one needs to be able to defend better as attacking gets harder.

Even though I am inclined to make my account no longer engineered, I won't make any changes until I see how things play out.

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Originally Posted by joshsgrandad

Well. My paranoia valve is pulsing. This is 25% of my concern becoming a reality.
I worried for a long time now, that they would go the BB route, and scrap the random war. Much easier for them, if they dont have to worry about weights, and constantly tweaking the MMA.
Whereas I dont have a problem with anything new that they add to the game. My concern now, is that if it becomes popular, and receives a warm welcome, then it will, in time, be the only way to war. Then engineering, and likewise anything less than top hall, will be far less than optimum.
Having said that, since regular war will be suspended, we will most likely participate. But I dont like those grey clouds that are gathering in the not too distant future.

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I agree. I have a very annoying little devil in the back of mind with this and where it could be leading things. At the moment I am reserving judgement but am wary, very wary and concerned for those of us whole like the random war spins but just want tweaks to the war mm to make it a more even playing field each war.

I don’t like to lose. I hate it even more when I have 0% chance to win.

I’d just find a clan to war with or take a 7 day vacation. 7 days of getting out match doesn’t sound like much fun. The non max bases will just sit idle.

Like major alluded to, I could just war in CWSF with other max or near maxed 12s and sit the non max 12s.

As much as people whine about mismatches now, I can only imagine those complaints multiply exponentially with CWL.

We need to see the rewards to decide. If we decide CWL is more important than being engineered or having lower halls in regular wars, then the best plan will be to strategically rush to th12 and then max as fast as possible. However, I suspect most players will want to take part in both types of wars, so they will be more balanced in that approach. I have one th11 I will probably rush to th12 for war leagues and keep it out of regular wars. I have a th8 and some th9s that seem like they are so far away from being useful in CWL that I might just leave them as is for regular wars. Same for my th10s, although that is a closer call.

It is hinted that the rewards for CWL will be magic items, not just loot.

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Originally Posted by TheWarDictator

I don’t like to lose. I hate it even more when I have 0% chance to win.

I’d just find a clan to war with or take a 7 day vacation. 7 days of getting out match doesn’t sound like much fun. The non max bases will just sit idle.

Like major alluded to, I could just war in CWSF with other max or near maxed 12s and sit the non max 12s.

As much as people whine about mismatches now, I can only imagine those complaints multiply exponentially with CWL.

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Other than possibly getting into a bad tier placement initially, it is highly unlikely that you will settle into a tier where you have 0% chance to win the war week. You might get matched against one clan of the 7 that you can’t win, but I mean the whole week, which is what the purpose is. The one way I think that could happen is if suddenly a bunch of your highest level players leave so you are in a tier that you compete well in with 10 th12s, but 8 of them leave and you have no other th12s. Well, yeah, now that next war season you will get stomped and will move down a tier, where you should have better success the next season.

I'd keep my engineered bases as engineered even if they became a complete detriment in normal wars. You can't create new ones these days so I'd rather keep mine as a reminder of what we once had and continue using my non-engineered bases in wars.

I agree about waiting for the release.
But, what I have seen so far, isnt good for me on a personal basis.
I work a 3 on, 3 off shift system, and 12 hour shifts. Without me, we have no team. i could be missing for 4 of the 7 days one time, and will always miss 3 days, on a good week.
Obviously, the only people that play clash work 9 to 5 jobs.
And I still worry that this will become "the new way to war", that they talked about, at the start of the year. Never saw that coming.. much.

Do not care this too much due to we have 15 approaching max th12 now. we also have 15 engineering base. we can play on both side even it would be parallel or single run on clan war or cwl.

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Originally Posted by joshsgrandad

I agree about waiting for the release.
But, what I have seen so far, isnt good for me on a personal basis.
I work a 3 on, 3 off shift system, and 12 hour shifts. Without me, we have no team. i could be missing for 4 of the 7 days one time, and will always miss 3 days, on a good week.

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I have similar thoughts. We could muster 15 without me, but if I follow my usual opt-out-midweek pattern we'd be missing half of our TH12s.

As I think more about league war, I remember how much I dislike builder base's trophy system, and how I compensated by dropping a thousand trophies. Builder attacks with bh8 are fun and easy again at 2000 trophies. Maybe we need to do the same for league placement. What I might do is take my little or engineered accounts to our retirement clan and do a league war with the dead bases there. That will be a nice low league.

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Originally Posted by littledoctor

I have similar thoughts. We could muster 15 without me, but if I follow my usual opt-out-midweek pattern we'd be missing half of our TH12s.

As I think more about league war, I remember how much I dislike builder base's trophy system, and how I compensated by dropping a thousand trophies. Builder attacks with bh8 are fun and easy again at 2000 trophies. Maybe we need to do the same for league placement. What I might do is take my little or engineered accounts to our retirement clan and do a league war with the dead bases there. That will be a nice low league.

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Not every clan has to push to be as high as possible in clan war leagues and I’m sure many won’t. A clan like yours might decide they don’t care as much about CWL and will just put in whatever 15 can do it to get whatever rewards are available. I bet a lot of very good engineered clans will feel that way.

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Originally Posted by 2222

Not every clan has to push to be as high as possible in clan war leagues and I’m sure many won’t. A clan like yours might decide they don’t care as much about CWL and will just put in whatever 15 can do it to get whatever rewards are available. I bet a lot of very good engineered clans will feel that way.

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I think the determining factor for us will be the rewards. Since they haven't said any different, I am assuming that we'll get war loot as usual for winning or losing each of the 7 wars (less per war due to only one attack, but twice as many wars to compensate). Since we care about war loot, I think we would rather win in a lower league than lose in a higher league, so we will have to see just how good the difference between league N and league N+1 is, in terms of these new magic items or whatever.

The difficulty is, how beneficial are rewards to the tier 1 Max TH12 clans/players?
Do they need 3 Books of Heros when they are already maxed? Obviously, these 'Magic items' might be potentially interesting.
The top tier CWL clans will be warring for global ladder glory, not 'loot/upgrade' rewards.

Should be interesting, but the clans/players that really need those 'loot/upgrade' rewards are not Max TH12s!:)

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Originally Posted by 2222

Other than possibly getting into a bad tier placement initially, it is highly unlikely that you will settle into a tier where you have 0% chance to win the war week. You might get matched against one clan of the 7 that you can’t win, but I mean the whole week, which is what the purpose is. The one way I think that could happen is if suddenly a bunch of your highest level players leave so you are in a tier that you compete well in with 10 th12s, but 8 of them leave and you have no other th12s. Well, yeah, now that next war season you will get stomped and will move down a tier, where you should have better success the next season.

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While you don’t think it’s likely, I’m of the opinion that it’s inevitable for bad matchups. Getting relagated because you got outmatched will ♥♥♥♥ off even more people.

Clan war leagues is one week a month and makes no change to war as we know it. No change.

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Originally Posted by PapaTroll

Clan war leagues is one week a month and makes no change to war as we know it. No change.

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Unless there are no regular wars the week of CWL

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Originally Posted by Starcast99

Unless there are no regular wars the week of CWL

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I predict no change in the number of "can you believe this awful matchup" threads here.

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Originally Posted by littledoctor

I predict no change in the number of "can you believe this awful matchup" threads here.

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Oh, I think there's going to be a BIG change from now in the number of matchup complaints once we're on round 2 or 3 of cwl and clans have moved up or down a bit from their start point; or changed rosters between months.

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Originally Posted by littledoctor

I have similar thoughts. We could muster 15 without me, but if I follow my usual opt-out-midweek pattern we'd be missing half of our TH12s.

As I think more about league war, I remember how much I dislike builder base's trophy system, and how I compensated by dropping a thousand trophies. Builder attacks with bh8 are fun and easy again at 2000 trophies. Maybe we need to do the same for league placement. What I might do is take my little or engineered accounts to our retirement clan and do a league war with the dead bases there. That will be a nice low league.

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lol. Funnily enough. Just prior to clan games, I spend my time dropping trophies, in readiness for games starting.

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Originally Posted by PapaTroll

Clan war leagues is one week a month and makes no change to war as we know it. No change.

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Lets wait and see mate. Or I could say "for now"

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Originally Posted by Skrags

The difficulty is, how beneficial are rewards to the tier 1 Max TH12 clans/players?
Do they need 3 Books of Heros when they are already maxed? Obviously, these 'Magic items' might be potentially interesting.
The top tier CWL clans will be warring for global ladder glory, not 'loot/upgrade' rewards.

Should be interesting, but the clans/players that really need those 'loot/upgrade' rewards are not Max TH12s!:)

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Exactly. They are releasing an extension to the usual war game. If reports are correct, the prizes will be magic items. In this game extension, optimum base will be max 12.
So, the new lay out favours accounts that have no need of the prizes on offer. Dont add up.
As they say, no smoke without fire. I could guess where the smoke is being blown.
But no doubt, we will be there. What option is there. For better, or more likely worse (since weights arent included), its a war fix of sorts.
As I said, I dont like it. BB isnt a good solution to the MMA problems. Was hoping they would put it on ice, once the matching turned good, but I guess complaints will always occur. Cant please everybody. So it begins.

If CWL is going to drain all the max bases from war for 1 week out of the month then I would rather participate in the random spins instead with my main as I would face only rushed bases, plus I don't actually need any magic items.

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Originally Posted by MajorJohnson

If CWL is going to drain all the max bases from war for 1 week out of the month then I would rather participate in the random spins instead with my main as I would face only rushed bases, plus I don't actually need any magic items.

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They've said (and then slightly retracted, saying it's not completely definite) that normal war and FW will not be available at all during cwl weeks.

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

They've said (and then slightly retracted, saying it's not completely definite) that normal war and FW will not be available at all during cwl weeks.

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This part makes sense either way.
Doing random spin would be a nightmare to match, given the anticipated level of participation in the league play.
Conspiracy theory thought.. If the only alternative to league play is no war, then the figures will rise significantly.

And they have an inbuilt auto response to the mismatch threads.. Things will settle down over time, as clans find their level, which of course is true.
looks like I am trying to warm to it now lol

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Originally Posted by joshsgrandad

This part makes sense either way.
Doing random spin would be a nightmare to match, given the anticipated level of participation in the league play.
Conspiracy theory thought.. If the only alternative to league play is no war, then the figures will rise significantly.

And they have an inbuilt auto response to the mismatch threads.. Things will settle down over time, as clans find their level, which of course is true.
looks like I am trying to warm to it now lol

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I've said it plenty of times. The idea that clans will settle into their natural place is based on a totally false assumption that clan rosters will remain static. We all know that doesn't happen, clans change members all of the time. People opt in and out for wars for various reasons, all of the time! My prediction is the further this goes along the more frequent the mismatches will occur, not the opposite as they hope, at least until such time that clans are fed up with the system and people will stop joining, or until such time that the whole clan dynamic is changed amongst the larger player base. Imo the worst weeks (seasons) of matching will likely be from season 2-6 or 7 which means months of constant complaints on here about unfair war matchups, etc. After months of complaining many people are sure to be fed up with the problems it's created and either leave the game or stop warring altogether.

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Originally Posted by SumoSloth

I've said it plenty of times. The idea that clans will settle into their natural place is based on a totally false assumption that clan rosters will remain static. We all know that doesn't happen, clans change members all of the time. People opt in and out for wars for various reasons, all of the time! My prediction is the further this goes along the more frequent the mismatches will occur, not the opposite as they hope, at least until such time that clans are fed up with the system and people will stop joining, or until such time that the whole clan dynamic is changed amongst the larger player base. Imo the worst weeks (seasons) of matching will likely be from season 2-6 or 7 which means months of constant complaints on here about unfair war matchups, etc. After months of complaining many people are sure to be fed up with the problems it's created and either leave the game or stop warring altogether.

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I’ve read all your post on this subject. I hope SC does as well. Being stuck a week in unwinnable wars can cause participation to plumet for a feature with so much positive potential.

The one attack per member will make even minor mismatches almost impossible to over come.

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Originally Posted by SumoSloth

I've said it plenty of times. The idea that clans will settle into their natural place is based on a totally false assumption that clan rosters will remain static. We all know that doesn't happen, clans change members all of the time. People opt in and out for wars for various reasons, all of the time! My prediction is the further this goes along the more frequent the mismatches will occur, not the opposite as they hope, at least until such time that clans are fed up with the system and people will stop joining, or until such time that the whole clan dynamic is changed amongst the larger player base. Imo the worst weeks (seasons) of matching will likely be from season 2-6 or 7 which means months of constant complaints on here about unfair war matchups, etc. After months of complaining many people are sure to be fed up with the problems it's created and either leave the game or stop warring altogether.

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Well, they are playing it down. They are selling it as a side show, much in the vein of clan games.
War hungry, serious war clans wont like it, I wouldnt expect them to, as it is simply a star fest. No carefully planned roster, to balance weight with power, No use of the roster, to manipulate the MM into easier opponents. All the things, the regular forum dwellers worked on for years, and tweaked with each move by SC, is out of the window. It is set up for the casual masses, that win a few, lose a few.
And that will be the market that will make or break the idea, how "Casual Joe" accepts it. They wont use forum feedback, I wouldnt think, as the masses dont live here. But the participation figures will no doubt be carefully monitored. their spread sheets will be in front of then at their meetings. I feel the next few months will shape the structure of the game for the foreseeable future.
So far as clan dynamics. if they decide its the way to go, then there will be a mass movement of accounts, within the game. Only need 15 for the roster, so clans that are full now, doing big wars, will obviously suffer. How many people will hang around, waiting for a week when someone has heroes down, or is unavailable? Biggest impact will be on clan games, as 15 war accounts can pick themselves, even do league wars with heroes down, but a full clan can pick off max game level much easier.
But, for now, everything is pure speculation.

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Originally Posted by TheWarDictator

While you don’t think it’s likely, I’m of the opinion that it’s inevitable for bad matchups. Getting relagated because you got outmatched will ♥♥♥♥ off even more people.

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I guess it depends on what you mean by outmatched. I assume you mean clans with stronger accounts? Yes, some will hate that. Others will be ok with losing to clans with stronger accounts and knowing their clan made it as high as they could based on the accounts they have rather than losing because their skill is so low they can’t keep up with similar clans. All I know is if the reward structure is set well, we will try to push as high as we can.

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

Oh, I think there's going to be a BIG change from now in the number of matchup complaints once we're on round 2 or 3 of cwl and clans have moved up or down a bit from their start point; or changed rosters between months.

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Yes, by clans who don’t understand their own performance determines their tier, not some sort of “matchmaking” like we have in regular wars. We can count on many complaints no matter what, that is for sure.

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Originally Posted by SumoSloth

I've said it plenty of times. The idea that clans will settle into their natural place is based on a totally false assumption that clan rosters will remain static. We all know that doesn't happen, clans change members all of the time. People opt in and out for wars for various reasons, all of the time! My prediction is the further this goes along the more frequent the mismatches will occur, not the opposite as they hope, at least until such time that clans are fed up with the system and people will stop joining, or until such time that the whole clan dynamic is changed amongst the larger player base. Imo the worst weeks (seasons) of matching will likely be from season 2-6 or 7 which means months of constant complaints on here about unfair war matchups, etc. After months of complaining many people are sure to be fed up with the problems it's created and either leave the game or stop warring altogether.

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Yes, clans that keep their top 15-30 players consistently in their clan will have less risk of that happening. I have no problem with such clans having a benefit over clans that have hoppers in and out so much.

Also, clans that are actively upgrading their accounts will have an advantage. They will have an easier time winning each month and maybe even moving up. I have no problem with clans that are more active than average having an advantage over clans who have accounts that don’t upgrade.

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Originally Posted by 2222

I guess it depends on what you mean by outmatched. I assume you mean clans with stronger accounts? Yes, some will hate that. Others will be ok with losing to clans with stronger accounts and knowing their clan made it as high as they could based on the accounts they have

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You must love BB matchmaking then. Hey, you’re good at this games. Here’s a turd sandwhich for your efforts. Hey, you suck at this game, have some candy. At least with multiplayer, we have the option to next.

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Originally Posted by TheWarDictator

You must love BB matchmaking then. Hey, you’re good at this games. Here’s a turd sandwhich for your efforts. Hey, you suck at this game, have some candy. At least with multiplayer, we have the option to next.

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I don’t love BB, but yes I do like the PvP aspect of it. If they had created the exact same thing, but we take our regular base troops and defenses into those battles for a new trophy ladder, I would have liked it a lot. As it stands now I sort of play BB just because it is there and I get some gems, but I don’t love it.

You’re right, though, it is a total different mindset and that is why some players hate BB. They are used to “winning” almost every raid they do on multiplayer (either loot or cups) and they feel bad when they win only about 50% of the time on BB.

Because CWL will have as its purpose pushing as high as possible in tiers for better rewards, I will be fine with that 50% “win” rate. If SC hasn’t structured it that way and instead makes it such that “winning” down low is better than just participating up high, or if they plan to track win/loss records, etc. then I don’t think I will like it at all. If the only measure noted in the clan profile is the clan’s tier, I will like it. I will know fighting hard to stay right in the same spot isn’t a loss and finishing 1st or 2nd (maybe 3rd?) is a win.

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Originally Posted by TheWarDictator

You must love BB matchmaking then. Hey, you’re good at this games. Here’s a turd sandwhich for your efforts. Hey, you suck at this game, have some candy. At least with multiplayer, we have the option to next.

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I am 100% behind 2222 on this one. Cream will rise to the top, and yes, that means that at the highest level, you will have a maxxed base and troops. For those who do not, they will reach a level of equilibrium where it will be mostly competitive.

If you believe that the only way to be 'good' at games is to somehow manipulate the outcome or believe that a TH9 should be at the top level leaderboards, then you are going to be very unhappy and should best stay in wars the way they are today.

Also, regarding the turd sandwich (love that description by the way), I don’t think it will happen all that often. I could be wrong (hope I’m not). That will only happen when my clan goes into battle week with several of our th12s unable to war OR the other clans in my league suddenly added several th12s they didn’t have before. In those situations there has been a big shift in the clans and, as sumo has said, it will result in a bad match. The more common situation will be my clan fights against a clan with similar make-up and similar skill, a clan with stronger bases but less skill, or a clan with weaker bases but more skill. In all of those we should have about a 50% chance of winning. Assuming we are active throughout the month and upgrade our bases more than average, we should have a little better than 50% chance of winning next season if we stick in the same tier.

I’m fine going to battle against a clan with stronger bases but less skill where I have a 50% chance to win in a system that isn’t about wins/losses. I am not at all fine with that in a system where the only measure of succes is the war record, like our current regular wars, which is why I hate that recent war success is a factor in regular war matchmaking.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tosti111

I am 100% behind 2222 on this one. Cream will rise to the top, and yes, that means that at the highest level, you will have a maxxed base and troops. For those who do not, they will reach a level of equilibrium where it will be mostly competitive.

If you believe that the only way to be 'good' at games is to somehow manipulate the outcome or believe that a TH9 should be at the top level leaderboards, then you are going to be very unhappy and should best stay in wars the way they are today.

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Yeah, the cream should rise to the top. Cream being skill. Not some frankenstein system that grants free wins to those with the most money to spend (ie: BB).

Scale the townhalls up or down to get an even match. Best skilled clan wins instead of whoever is on the + side of the mismatch.

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Originally Posted by joshsgrandad

War hungry, serious war clans wont like it, I wouldnt expect them to, as it is simply a star fest. No carefully planned roster, to balance weight with power, No use of the roster, to manipulate the MM into easier opponents. All the things, the regular forum dwellers worked on for years, and tweaked with each move by SC, is out of the window. It is set up for the casual masses, that win a few, lose a few.
And that will be the market that will make or break the idea, how "Casual Joe" accepts it. They wont use forum feedback, I wouldnt think, as the masses dont live here. But the participation figures will no doubt be carefully monitored. their spread sheets will be in front of then at their meetings. I feel the next few months will shape the structure of the game for the foreseeable future.

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Plenty of chance to be proven wrong, but this is exactly my guess.

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Originally Posted by Starcast99

Unless there are no regular wars the week of CWL

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One week cwl. Three weeks war as we know it. Why would I alter existing engineers that can never be replaced for a war mode that is only present a quarter of the time, especially when the 15 v 15 format means I don't need the engies to play. The premise of the initial question is short sighted. I pity those who were deceived by blind advice to drop defenses. Upgrade is a one-way path. Know before you go.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PapaTroll

One week cwl. Three weeks war as we know it. Why would I alter existing engineers that can never be replaced for a war mode that is only present a quarter of the time, especially when the 15 v 15 format means I don't need the engies to play. The premise of the initial question is short sighted. I pity those who were deceived by blind advice to drop defenses. Upgrade is a one-way path. Know before you go.

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It was an open ended question. I stated “if” one’s engineered base in included in cwl. If you state you are not including engineered bases in cwl, then question does not apply.

My clan needs top level (TH11/TH12) accounts to most likely be competitive, hence why I am looking into it and asking the question. I won’t make any decision until I know more. If my TH11 never has to face TH12s or maxed out TH11s, then it’s safe as is.

This is a different situation from when they stated non-placed-purchased items will be counted in the war matching. That was info enough for me to modify my account for SC fixing a loophole.

Do we really think this will kill engineers? Depending on the initial war weight seeding process, engineers will potentially still have much greater attacking prowess than their opponents. Sure they give up stars on defense, but because wars are judged based on the aggragate stars for a week, it is conceiveable that engineers pick up the 315 stars while those they face get the 45 stars against them but struggle to perfect all of their other opponents.

I know that after months things may settle out, but if it happens even for a month or two, I suspect the wrath of the player base to be far greater than it has been for regular wars.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SumoSloth

Do we really think this will kill engineers? Depending on the initial war weight seeding process, engineers will potentially still have much greater attacking prowess than their opponents. Sure they give up stars on defense, but because wars are judged based on the aggragate stars for a week, it is conceiveable that engineers pick up the 315 stars while those they face get the 45 stars against them but struggle to perfect all of their other opponents.

I know that after months things may settle out, but if it happens even for a month or two, I suspect the wrath of the player base to be far greater than it has been for regular wars.

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I think the bad/lazy engineers might change, but the good engineered clans won’t likely ruin their accounts for clan war league if they care more about regular wars. In clan war leagues themselves, engineers will be at a disadvantage compared to a maxed base of the same hall level, but that won’t be enough for all players to ruin their engineered accounts.

As for that first week, unless SC has set up the structure of rewards in a bad way, those engineers are immediately at a disadvantage because they will be in a lower tier with lower rewards than they would be had they had full defense. And, for every season after that they will be tempted to build defenses to increase their power without any weight punishment, but, again, I don’t think the clans that care the most about regular wars will build those defenses if they think it will hurt regular wars.

I do think changes to the matchmaker were already causing many players to move away from engineered accounts and that will continue, but some will remain I’m sure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2222

I think the bad/lazy engineers might change, but the good engineered clans won’t likely ruin their accounts for clan war league if they care more about regular wars. In clan war leagues themselves, engineers will be at a disadvantage compared to a maxed base of the same hall level, but that won’t be enough for all players to ruin their engineered accounts.

As for that first week, unless SC has set up the structure of rewards in a bad way, those engineers are immediately at a disadvantage because they will be in a lower tier with lower rewards than they would be had they had full defense. And, for every season after that they will be tempted to build defenses to increase their power without any weight punishment, but, again, I don’t think the clans that care the most about regular wars will build those defenses if they think it will hurt regular wars.

I do think changes to the matchmaker were already causing many players to move away from engineered accounts and that will continue, but some will remain I’m sure.

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I agree that I don’t think it will affect good engineers, but you are right that the reward structure may play a big part in determining that. So I’ll reserve judgement until we know what the rewards are and how the rewards are structured.

I do suspect though that that if someone is well-engineered, the rewards that could be offered would likely be irrelevant as their bases have in many cases already been optimized, so no actual rewards would be worth it (at least nothing that we’ve seen to this point). The same could be said for those who are already max th12s, what possible rewards could bring incentive other than just purely winning?

I have a feeling Clan Wars will be phased out and replaced by CWL. That's how SC will solve the "engineering" "problem".

To answer the OP's question: No, so long as we have Clan Wars, non of our "engineered" bases will ever be maxed. But that's assuming you are calling a base that has non maxed defenses and max troops engineered.

if it comes with separate log...
anyone can take part at the league

if it comes with count your log of league with regular
then
engineering clan with high streak would be think twice before entering the league
I don't think they would

one attack is what makes engineering trash

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

They've said (and then slightly retracted, saying it's not completely definite) that normal war and FW will not be available at all during cwl weeks.

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I think it's understandable that SC play it by ear on this issue.
It's also understandable that the pool of clans available for random wars, especially at the more common 10v,15v rosters may be heavily diluted by CWL.:)

It's interesting to see the varying feedback towards CWL. Even the GASPS are split as can be seen in the main thread.
Many of us (not all) have been worried about the potential of an ELO based ladder system since CWL was first teased.

After some thought, my current views are as follows :-

1) Top Tier CWL. While social media is reporting that one of the main TWC servers has been shut down (again!), how are the open modding clans viewing CWL? Do they view CWL as the in game global ego leader board that they've always craved, or an insignificant distraction for the casual 'noobs'. I don't know, but I would guess that ego will conquer all. I've seen no long term substance from SC to suggest modding will finally be eliminated once and for all from Clash of Clans.
If we assume both of the above, then top tier CWL will become worthless and meaningless. There are plenty of private servers out there in Clashland, and plenty of players willing to spend a few $ to access them!

2) Casual players and progression. I'm all for ways to help the regular players progress, and as I've suggested many times, this is actually extremely important for the longevity of the game, and SC have always pushed this rhetoric.
CWL rewards can only aid this progression, just as Clan Games has. The rewards v TH strength disparity between Clan Games and CWL is an interesting topic in itself, without knowing the CWL rewards structure. I'm a fan of CG rewards structure, I have worries about CWL.

3) Matchmaking Complaints and motivation. Further to 2) I do feel that the casual player base will be motivated to play/try CWL if the rewards are there, but there will be issues for players who don't care about rewards, and get their buzz from that Green line on their war log, and all that went into achieving it.

I find myself in a predicament with regard to 3). I state this in respect of my own clan, and on behalf of the community as a whole.

I know others disagree with me (and that's fine) but as things stand, I'm viewing CWL as farming wars.
The top tier will be meaningless, so long as modding prevails, so what else is there?

Time will tell. :thumbsup:

Its success will depend on their PR guys, and what spin they put on it.
If they try to sell it as competitive, then they may well run into trouble. Matching will be by skill, according to their early release notes. My thoughts to that is ball cocks. Bigger is better. The teams with plenty of big bases will prevail, and occupy the top tiers. The very ones that least need the rewards.
They really need to be playing down the competition side, at least in the early days, even if its to avert the horror match threads that will light up forum. If they play it down, then a casual approach can offset the days when you look at the oppo, and wonder why you didnt just stay in bed.
My thoughts, firstly, are same as ibork. I think this is the way we are headed. And how popular it is will determine how quickly random wars disappear.
Now, my unknowns. Havent read Darians piece, been on shift. 1 war = 1 day. Is that 12 hours prep/ 12 hours battle?. Have they released how they are going to start up the leagues?. Think it said 18 tiers, so is it weight based seeding, total war wins, clan level?
Havent ran it past the guys n gals yet, so unsure where we stand. A positive for us, is that we have some heavier bases than our war roster, that will get dusted down. Downside for me, is that with a single wrecker donating base, I better start saving my gold. 7 wars in 7 days is a lot of wreckers, especially since there could be an extra 4 or 5 mouths to feed on CWL week.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joshsgrandad

Its success will depend on their PR guys, and what spin they put on it.
If they try to sell it as competitive, then they may well run into trouble. Matching will be by skill, according to their early release notes. My thoughts to that is ball cocks. Bigger is better. The teams with plenty of big bases will prevail, and occupy the top tiers. The very ones that least need the rewards.
They really need to be playing down the competition side, at least in the early days, even if its to avert the horror match threads that will light up forum. If they play it down, then a casual approach can offset the days when you look at the oppo, and wonder why you didnt just stay in bed.
My thoughts, firstly, are same as ibork. I think this is the way we are headed. And how popular it is will determine how quickly random wars disappear.
Now, my unknowns. Havent read Darians piece, been on shift. 1 war = 1 day. Is that 12 hours prep/ 12 hours battle?. Have they released how they are going to start up the leagues?. Think it said 18 tiers, so is it weight based seeding, total war wins, clan level?
Havent ran it past the guys n gals yet, so unsure where we stand. A positive for us, is that we have some heavier bases than our war roster, that will get dusted down. Downside for me, is that with a single wrecker donating base, I better start saving my gold. 7 wars in 7 days is a lot of wreckers, especially since there could be an extra 4 or 5 mouths to feed on CWL week.

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nah... darian already explained of how 8 days 7 war works
15×7 = 105 wall wrecker needed
105×100.000= 10.500.000 gold required for league
that's a max cost for lv1 ww at lv10++ clan

nah... minus refund for lv10++ clan
should be 5.250.000 gold

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Originally Posted by Alishr99

nah... darian already explained of how 8 days 7 war works
15×7 = 105 wall wrecker needed
105×100.000= 10.500.000 gold required for league
that's a max cost for lv1 ww at lv10++ clan

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Minus the 50% you get back from donating.

That dont sound so bad then, Can live with 5 mill gold for the week. If its wrong, my accountant will bill you the difference.
Now its only the rest of my questions to get answers for. Am finished nights now, so can start doing maths again, but thx guys.

If you only get one attack, I would think there would be little advantage. Granted the engineered base could go up in the war and attack higher, but they would still only get 3 stars and likely give up 3 stars to a lower position in war. As opposed to a regular war where an engineered base could possible take out two bases for 6 stars and only give up 3.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clevercj

If you only get one attack, I would think there would be little advantage. Granted the engineered base could go up in the war and attack higher, but they would still only get 3 stars and likely give up 3 stars to a lower position in war. As opposed to a regular war where an engineered base could possible take out two bases for 6 stars and only give up 3.

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Changing to one attack in regular wars where weight matters would have a big impact on engineering, but that isn’t the big impact on engineering for CWL. The big impact on engineering is the fact that weight doesn’t matter after the first tier placement. Let’s say you don’t have an inferno. There is no advantage to that because if you build an inferno nothing changes about your matches other than you are stronger. A system without weights is a system that ends engineering, at least for that system. Many players will still keep their engineered accounts for regular wars, though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2222

Changing to one attack in regular wars where weight matters would have a big impact on engineering, but that isn’t the big impact on engineering for CWL. The big impact on engineering is the fact that weight doesn’t matter after the first tier placement. Let’s say you don’t have an inferno. There is no advantage to that because if you build an inferno nothing changes about your matches other than you are stronger. A system without weights is a system that ends engineering, at least for that system. Many players will still keep their engineered accounts for regular wars, though.

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I agree. Another good post 2222. Your message here hits home the statement Darian said, about engineers still being allowed, but would be a disadvantage.
Of course they are still viable for random war, but in CWL their offensive power is undermined by their lack of defence. Maybe its not such a bad idea after all. No war log, no playing with weights, simply use what you got, and see where it gets you.
Now, if they can shut down private server, bragging rights are up for grabs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2222

Changing to one attack in regular wars where weight matters would have a big impact on engineering, but that isn’t the big impact on engineering for CWL. The big impact on engineering is the fact that weight doesn’t matter after the first tier placement. Let’s say you don’t have an inferno. There is no advantage to that because if you build an inferno nothing changes about your matches other than you are stronger. A system without weights is a system that ends engineering, at least for that system. Many players will still keep their engineered accounts for regular wars, though.

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It's not too bad because it would also make it difficult for modded attacks since they require a scout and can't have a scout if you only have 1 attack.

Also like all your posts, seems like im always agreeing with you :s

The way to engineer for league wars is to rush to TH12 after initial tier placement. Then your clan will have more wardens and eagles than the typical opponent at your level. Since it takes such a long time to advance from tier to tier you'll have plenty of time to backfill one war attack and catch your heroes up.

Seemingly coincidentally, warring with a bunch of rushed TH12 (in addition to your non-rushed TH12 anchors) is not a terrible strategy for random war either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by littledoctor

The way to engineer for league wars is to rush to TH12 after initial tier placement. Then your clan will have more wardens and eagles than the typical opponent at your level. Since it takes such a long time to advance from tier to tier you'll have plenty of time to backfill one war attack and catch your heroes up.

Seemingly coincidentally, warring with a bunch of rushed TH12 (in addition to your non-rushed TH12 anchors) is not a terrible strategy for random war either.

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I've started considering the tradeoff of how this would affect me in war and in CWL (this part is speculation though), if I move my TH11 to TH12.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by littledoctor

The way to engineer for league wars is to rush to TH12 after initial tier placement. Then your clan will have more wardens and eagles than the typical opponent at your level. Since it takes such a long time to advance from tier to tier you'll have plenty of time to backfill one war attack and catch your heroes up.

Seemingly coincidentally, warring with a bunch of rushed TH12 (in addition to your non-rushed TH12 anchors) is not a terrible strategy for random war either.

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It all depends on the reward structure. If we learn that participating in the top tiers is worth more of a reward than “winning” in the low tiers and if we also learn there is no profile tracking of individual wins or win streaks, that plan of rushing to th12 might be best done before the initial placement. In that case it would be best to be placed as high as possible to get the best reward, even if it means getting knocked back to a lower tier for the second season. On the other hand, if it is more rewarding to win individual wars in lower tiers than to participate in higher tiers, the best plan will be to put your lowest 15 accounts in for the first placement, then put your high ones in for the next season and also to rush to th12 like you noted. That type of reward structure would be a huge mistake in my opinion. Clans will intentionally throw a war each season by getting 0 stars to try to stay low so they can “win” the other 6 wars for the better rewards.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2222

It all depends on the reward structure. If we learn that participating in the top tiers is worth more of a reward than “winning” in the low tiers and if we also learn there is no profile tracking of individual wins or win streaks, that plan of rushing to th12 might be best done before the initial placement.

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Yup, agreed.

This is the most crucial piece of info that I'm waiting on to figure out our strategy moving forward.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skrags

The top tier will be meaningless, so long as modding prevails, so what else is there?

Time will tell. :thumbsup:

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by joshsgrandad

Now, if they can shut down private server, bragging rights are up for grabs.

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I thought the whole point of private server sand boxing was to avoid bans that result from altering game files. If there are only 15 attacks to use against 15 bases then where is the CC and trap placement coming from? I looked up some of this stuff a week or two ago and it sounded like scouts to get cc and traps, then manual base builds were required. I thought this was resistant to modding based on one attack per player, surely i've missed something. Please DM me if needed, I am very curious.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DOOM2U

I thought the whole point of private server sand boxing was to avoid bans that result from altering game files. If there are only 15 attacks to use against 15 bases then where is the CC and trap placement coming from? I looked up some of this stuff a week or two ago and it sounded like scouts to get cc and traps, then manual base builds were required. I thought this was resistant to modding based on one attack per player, surely i've missed something. Please DM me if needed, I am very curious.

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No mate. Dont think you have. i been a little naive. Realised my error after reading Majors post above.

TH based matching. Let's make rushing great again!

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Originally Posted by ahboi00

TH based matching. Let's make rushing great again!

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https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/aee7428...c-c6d9392648cd

wait....it's gotta be your bull.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MajorJohnson

It's not too bad because it would also make it difficult for modded attacks since they require a scout and can't have a scout if you only have 1 attack.

Also like all your posts, seems like im always agreeing with you :s

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by DOOM2U

I thought the whole point of private server sand boxing was to avoid bans that result from altering game files. If there are only 15 attacks to use against 15 bases then where is the CC and trap placement coming from? I looked up some of this stuff a week or two ago and it sounded like scouts to get cc and traps, then manual base builds were required. I thought this was resistant to modding based on one attack per player, surely i've missed something. Please DM me if needed, I am very curious.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by joshsgrandad

No mate. Dont think you have. i been a little naive. Realised my error after reading Majors post above.

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Modded attacks don't all require a scout. Having perfect information about traps etc is always preferable agreed, but scripts can still be run on fresh hits, although auto touch scripts are always human error prone (so I'm told!).
Many of the English speaking open mod clans use some sort of script software.:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skrags

Modded attacks don't all require a scout. Having perfect information about traps etc is always preferable agreed, but scripts can still be run on fresh hits, although auto touch scripts are always human error prone (so I'm told!).
Many of the English speaking open mod clans use some sort of script software.:)

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The fact that there are open mod clans is infuriating.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skrags

Modded attacks don't all require a scout. Having perfect information about traps etc is always preferable agreed, but scripts can still be run on fresh hits, although auto touch scripts are always human error prone (so I'm told!).
Many of the English speaking open mod clans use some sort of script software.:)

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Scripted attacks would go awry not knowing where the traps/CC are, or at least be no better than just performing the attack yourself.

I think modding attacks is a crutch that makes a player worse when not using it, and kills the whole fun factor on both sides, not to mention getting banned and losing years of work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MajorJohnson

Scripted attacks would go awry not knowing where the traps/CC are, or at least be no better than just performing the attack yourself.

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I can't really agree with this. I mean very often I get in there and forget one part of my attack that I rehearsed, or drop a spell in the wrong place, etc. If I could script my attack ahead of time and know that everything will be done as planned and nothing will be forgotten, certainly i would do better. Not to mention the adrenaline that rushes when I hit the attack button would not at all affect my attack.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thegreatpuma

If I could script my attack ahead of time and know that everything will be done as planned and nothing will be forgotten, certainly i would do better.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skrags

Modded attacks don't all require a scout. Having perfect information about traps etc is always preferable agreed, but scripts can still be run on fresh hits

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Perfect deployment isn't what cheaters are looking for though, is it? They want to repeat the attack until they cannot lose and then smash bases for automatic three stars. In this situation they can only guess. There is no guarantee of the win any longer. If they don't know CC contents and trap location they can practice till they turn blue and still get a completely different result in a live attack than in the litter box.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thegreatpuma

I can't really agree with this. I mean very often I get in there and forget one part of my attack that I rehearsed, or drop a spell in the wrong place, etc. If I could script my attack ahead of time and know that everything will be done as planned and nothing will be forgotten, certainly i would do better. Not to mention the adrenaline that rushes when I hit the attack button would not at all affect my attack.

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Or the times when my finger is closer to the screen than I thought and I accidentally place a troop or spell. Or when my finger touches the screen, but is not registered, and I start deploying things in the wrong order.

Would think that the downside to scripting a "guess", is that there would be no chance of reacting,and simply winging it, if something unexpected happens.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DOOM2U

Perfect deployment isn't what cheaters are looking for though, is it? They want to repeat the attack until they cannot lose and then smash bases for automatic three stars. In this situation they can only guess. There is no guarantee of the win any longer. If they don't know CC contents and trap location they can practice till they turn blue and still get a completely different result in a live attack than in the litter box.

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This is very true for what can be determined as the traditional modder. Practice, practice, practice to 'crack' a base, then go live, was always their goal, adrenalin rush so to speak. It required an investment in time, and an incentive to be the very best, and of course receive the 'deserved' adulation accordingly.
But cheating/modding, and the methods used, has been diverse overtime, from sandboxing, ghosting, burner use, watching, scripting, and this has often been reflected by the availability of certain software over the years.
I***, X***, Zhu****, as traditional modding software, has arrived, risen up to glory, and then fallen through a deep dark hole of obscurity.
Private servers rule the roost these days, (with or without additional scripting use).
Ideally, perfect simulation, requires trap info as I suggested earlier, and I'd agree with you, that many modders prefer this facility, as it matches their personal goals and incentives, so for them maybe CWL isn't the ideal platform. :thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MajorJohnson

Scripted attacks would go awry not knowing where the traps/CC are, or at least be no better than just performing the attack yourself.

.

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Of course scripted attacks, without knowing trap placement 'can' go awry, and are more likely to fail, than the traditional practice, practice, practice with traps modding techniques, but to suggest they are 'no better' than performing a live attack youself, is pushing the borders of reality imo.
Scripting the placement of 4 Haste spells, 3 Lava Hounds and 30 plus balloons all within 0.25 of a second, is certainly beyond my dexterity/skill level, and certainly the results would show accordingly!:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joshsgrandad

Would think that the downside to scripting a "guess", is that there would be no chance of reacting,and simply winging it, if something unexpected happens.

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Well yes Josh, but many script routines are written with this in mind to a degree. You can leave out of your script, 4 Loons, 3 Wizs, a spare spell, and your Hero abilities etc, all of which can be manually used/activated as per your choice/evaluation of how the live attack is actually going down.

In summary :
Without knowing the structure of CWL, and in particular how SC choose to publish/show/advertise in game, top CWL leaderboard status, it's impossible to guess how the modding clans are going to react to CWL participation.
Certainly, pure simulation is out of the question, with only 1 attack per player.

Will they just not bother with CWL at all?
Will they embrace CWL, but on a Fair play basis?
Will they embrace CWL, but use scripting techniques?

I don't know, I have no idea, but 6 months from now, I think the answers will be obvious!
:thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skrags

In summary :
Without knowing the structure of CWL, and in particular how SC choose to publish/show/advertise in game, top CWL leaderboard status, it's impossible to guess how the modding clans are going to react to CWL participation.
Certainly, pure simulation is out of the question, with only 1 attack per player.

Will they just not bother with CWL at all?
Will they embrace CWL, but on a Fair play basis?
Will they embrace CWL, but use scripting techniques?

I don't know, I have no idea, but 6 months from now, I think the answers will be obvious!
:thumbsup:

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If I had to guess I bet they don't bother with CWL. Not being "The Best" is too big a blow to those large egos. I'm optimistic and excited. Any one care to speculate where this leads for the invite leagues?

If I had an engineered base and I wanted to do cal seriously , I would max it. Think about this, the whole point of engineering a base for war is your base can only be three stared but you could get six stars from two attacks, but with only one attack in the cwl, it will be really hard to engineer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LordOfThunder999

If I had an engineered base and I wanted to do cal seriously , I would max it. Think about this, the whole point of engineering a base for war is your base can only be three stared but you could get six stars from two attacks, but with only one attack in the cwl, it will be really hard to engineer.

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But in CWL your engineer can attack 7 times, not only twice. 7 is more than 2. You only get attacked once per team. So in the standings against each team you get a 7 to 1 advantage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PapaTroll

But in CWL your engineer can attack 7 times, not only twice. 7 is more than 2. You only get attacked once per team. So in the standings against each team you get a 7 to 1 advantage.

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That doesn't equate well when you go up in leagues. The engineered base gets easier to 3 star each month, as everyone else's defense goes up in the leagues. I'm thinking engineers have their best potential value for the very first week in the league, and diminishes with each month for the next week in the league.

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Originally Posted by PapaTroll

But in CWL your engineer can attack 7 times, not only twice. 7 is more than 2. You only get attacked once per team. So in the standings against each team you get a 7 to 1 advantage.

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In war leagues the engineer attacks 7 times and defends seven times compared to regular wars where it would attack 14 times and still only defend 7 times. That makes the account with offense ahead of defense not as valuable in war leagues, although that isn’t the main reason traditional engineering is a disadvantage in war leagues. The lack of weight in the matchmaker is the main reason.

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Originally Posted by 2222

In war leagues the engineer attacks 7 times and defends seven times compared to regular wars where it would attack 14 times and still only defend 7 times. That makes the account with offense ahead of defense not as valuable in war leagues, although that isn’t the main reason traditional engineering is a disadvantage in war leagues. The lack of weight in the matchmaker is the main reason.

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Maybe if it were the top 15 heaviest bases according to the MM, it could be more beneficial to clans as a whole rather than the top TH sizes in war. CWL only seems like it will benefit from having the most maxed players in war.

I don't understand how it can work, as far as I have seen, you will be able to join CWL with 15 players or more but the 15 top TH count only?

If you were to have 50 TH12 in CWL, you would automatically end up in tier 1 but where does that leave the non maxed bases, the ones that really need the upgrades?

Modding attacks would be hard with just 1 attack and the Psychic Octopus peering down on you, don't want to lose all that hard work....

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Originally Posted by MajorJohnson

Maybe if it were the top 15 heaviest bases according to the MM, it could be more beneficial to clans as a whole rather than the top TH sizes in war. CWL only seems like it will benefit from having the most maxed players in war.

I don't understand how it can work, as far as I have seen, you will be able to join CWL with 15 players or more but the 15 top TH count only?

If you were to have 50 TH12 in CWL, you would automatically end up in tier 1 but where does that leave the non maxed bases, the ones that really need the upgrades?

Modding attacks would be hard with just 1 attack and the Psychic Octopus peering down on you, don't want to lose all that hard work....

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Lot of sense here. But, so far as we know, CWL is simply a side show. I dont see it as any more important than clan games.
I feel SC are selling it as such. Time will tell as to whether that is simply PR talk, and the leagues could lead to a trophy/league style of war on a permanent basis. But for now, it is simply another way of obtaining items to fast track ones accounts.
Of course, it is personal choice as to how one perceives the direction in which they are taking the game. It is another hit on random spins. These wars probably take a hit on clan games week, and now there is the probability of random war suspension during league week.
For the bigger/top weight bracket clans, it is probably good, as the modders may well be nullified. But if random is on the decline, and headed for extinction, then those lower level clans, and accounts, are left floundering on the rocks.
Interesting times indeed.

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Originally Posted by MajorJohnson

Maybe if it were the top 15 heaviest bases according to the MM, it could be more beneficial to clans as a whole rather than the top TH sizes in war. CWL only seems like it will benefit from having the most maxed players in war.

I don't understand how it can work, as far as I have seen, you will be able to join CWL with 15 players or more but the 15 top TH count only?

If you were to have 50 TH12 in CWL, you would automatically end up in tier 1 but where does that leave the non maxed bases, the ones that really need the upgrades?

Modding attacks would be hard with just 1 attack and the Psychic Octopus peering down on you, don't want to lose all that hard work....

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On sign up day (I think it might be 2 days) each clan that wants in will designate the players eligible for war that week. Not everyone who is on that roster has to actually get into the 15 for the war each day, but the 15 must come from that roster. The top 15 from that roster will determine which tier you get put in the very first time. After that, weight no longer matters. You will go up or down based on how you do during league week.

No one will get placed into tier 1, they will have to win to get into it.

The non-maxed bases clans, which is most clans, will be in lower tiers earning rewards that will help them max out faster.

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Originally Posted by 2222

On sign up day (I think it might be 2 days) each clan that wants in will designate the players eligible for war that week. Not everyone who is on that roster has to actually get into the 15 for the war each day, but the 15 must come from that roster. The top 15 from that roster will determine which tier you get put in the very first time. After that, weight no longer matters. You will go up or down based on how you do during league week.

No one will get placed into tier 1, they will have to win to get into it.

The non-maxed bases clans, which is most clans, will be in lower tiers earning rewards that will help them max out faster.

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Additionally, the tier your clan is placed in, from a ‘how good is my clan?’..perspective, means nothing in season 1. Several seasons down the road however, which tier you are in becomes more meaningful, if it is important to you.


You could as an example field a team of all TH12 that are pathetic attackers and horrid on defense and have them placed in lets say tier 3 on week 1. By season 5 they could be as low as tier 8 based on their performance. th ereverse could also occur, start at tier 8 and work your way up to tier 3 during five seasons. If I was concerned about how ‘good’ my clan is, I would be more interested in a clan that has reached equilibrium at a higher tier than others rather than where they were arbitrarily placed on week 1. The how many wins attitude ceases to be meangful in CWL, it all becomes where did you balance out at. Being able to say you have been at tier 1 for many seasons whether you win or just stay in the pack at that level will be very meaningful. Saying you have won your way from tier 18 to tier 9 will be much less attractive.

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Originally Posted by 2222

On sign up day (I think it might be 2 days) each clan that wants in will designate the players eligible for war that week. Not everyone who is on that roster has to actually get into the 15 for the war each day, but the 15 must come from that roster. The top 15 from that roster will determine which tier you get put in the very first time. After that, weight no longer matters. You will go up or down based on how you do during league week.

No one will get placed into tier 1, they will have to win to get into it.

The non-maxed bases clans, which is most clans, will be in lower tiers earning rewards that will help them max out faster.

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Well it seems like you will able to add more than 15 members which makes me wonder how league placement would work. You are also kinda forced to try to constantly add weight else fight alot of unwinnable wars if you had big bases on one season but not the next if there carry over.

Would each win/loss over the consecutive days bring you up or down in a tier over initial placement? Does it reset each month? Does it rank bases by their TH or their war weight?

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Originally Posted by 2222

In war leagues the engineer attacks 7 times and defends seven times compared to regular wars where it would attack 14 times and still only defend 7 times. That makes the account with offense ahead of defense not as valuable in war leagues, although that isn’t the main reason traditional engineering is a disadvantage in war leagues. The lack of weight in the matchmaker is the main reason.

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While it is true that the engineer defends seven times, but it is only once against each team. You win by winning more stars than the team in second place. As long as the engineer can earn more stars against all teams than he surrenders against the single second best team, then it is not the "definite disadvantage" we have been discussing for the last seven months.

Of course a full strength TH11 is more valuable than an engineered TH11 in all situations. This is true in clan wars. This will still be true in CWL. But if you don't have enough 12/11/10 to fill an entire roster then bringing your engineer is the next best thing. You may not make it into the top tier, but just because I am not listed among the top 200 players on earth doesn't stop me from enjoying the game.

When you look at the rewards structure, you may see what I mean.

You get medals for participation. No penalty for engineers.
You get medals for stars. Engineers, despite their weak defense, score stars.
You get medals for winning your league. One out of eight wins, seven lose. But the win is based on winning stars, and engineers score stars. The engineer penalty, stars surrendered, is diluted among all seven opposition clans. But every star won goes onto my score.

To be clear, I will say it again. THIS WILL NOT NOT NOT GET YOU TO THE TOP TIERS. But for the average Joe's in tiers 8 through 12, where th bell curve is going to dump most of us, there is no disadvantage to end engineering.

Or as I said before, for the hoi polloi, the defacto effect will be de minimus.

These forums are English only. Please refrain from speaking ancient Greek or Latin.

Agreed only in part Papa. If you happen to be working your way up the tiers, an engineer may gain you stars. It stops winning you stars when your wins start moving you up in leagues where those stars get harder and harder to achieve. Once your clan reaches its balance point, the engineer starts to hurt you defensively and starts being ineffective in obtaining stars. Ergo, any ‘advantage’ is nullified.

I suppose the question of upgrading the said engi base depends on where ones preference lies.
As CWL unleashes, it is a 1 week per month event. For the other 3 weeks of the month it is business as usual, with random spins.
Since the manicured account is preferential for that clans random spins, then it is unlikely that any change would be considered, Certainly not in the early days, where people start jockeying for tier stability. And as already pointed out, a lighter weight defence is not putting the clan under unbearable pressure, so that they enforce a drop defence or drop out rule. At least, not for the short term.
The decision will be made at a much later date than now, if a clan wishes to push for a higher tier standing, or random becomes the clans secondary aim.
I myself am looking forward to getting going, simply because the carrot that is the win streak/war log will be removed, so is a no pressure zone.

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Originally Posted by joshsgrandad

I suppose the question of upgrading the said engi base depends on where ones preference lies.
As CWL unleashes, it is a 1 week per month event. For the other 3 weeks of the month it is business as usual, with random spins.
Since the manicured account is preferential for that clans random spins, then it is unlikely that any change would be considered, Certainly not in the early days, where people start jockeying for tier stability. And as already pointed out, a lighter weight defence is not putting the clan under unbearable pressure, so that they enforce a drop defence or drop out rule. At least, not for the short term.
The decision will be made at a much later date than now, if a clan wishes to push for a higher tier standing, or random becomes the clans secondary aim.
I myself am looking forward to getting going, simply because the carrot that is the win streak/war log will be removed, so is a no pressure zone.

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I am looking forward to it as well since win streak and the war log are such poor indicators of how skilled a clan is given the manipulation of the matches that take place today.

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Originally Posted by Tosti111

Agreed only in part Papa. If you happen to be working your way up the tiers, an engineer may gain you stars. It stops winning you stars when your wins start moving you up in leagues where those stars get harder and harder to achieve. Once your clan reaches its balance point, the engineer starts to hurt you defensively and starts being ineffective in obtaining stars. Ergo, any ‘advantage’ is nullified.

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Originally Posted by Tosti111

I am looking forward to it as well since win streak and the war log are such poor indicators of how skilled a clan is given the manipulation of the matches that take place today.

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I think Papa has said offense lopsided engineers will be happy to reside in mid tier league.

For the long WS clan current engineers I think will not be too interested in CWL, since most of them actually dont have offense to compete in CWL, because of manicured offense, or they will only use the normal accts if they want to compete

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Originally Posted by MajorJohnson

Well it seems like you will able to add more than 15 members which makes me wonder how league placement would work. You are also kinda forced to try to constantly add weight else fight alot of unwinnable wars if you had big bases on one season but not the next if there carry over.

Would each win/loss over the consecutive days bring you up or down in a tier over initial placement? Does it reset each month? Does it rank bases by their TH or their war weight?

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You can designate 15-50 members to be eligible to war. Each day for 7 days straight your clan will go to war with 15 of the players from your list. Yes, if you have a bunch of big accounts leave your clan, it will hurt you in future wars. No, you only move up or down a tier at the end of the 7 wars.

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Originally Posted by PapaTroll

While it is true that the engineer defends seven times, but it is only once against each team. You win by winning more stars than the team in second place. As long as the engineer can earn more stars against all teams than he surrenders against the single second best team, then it is not the "definite disadvantage" we have been discussing for the last seven months.

Of course a full strength TH11 is more valuable than an engineered TH11 in all situations. This is true in clan wars. This will still be true in CWL. But if you don't have enough 12/11/10 to fill an entire roster then bringing your engineer is the next best thing. You may not make it into the top tier, but just because I am not listed among the top 200 players on earth doesn't stop me from enjoying the game.

When you look at the rewards structure, you may see what I mean.

You get medals for participation. No penalty for engineers.
You get medals for stars. Engineers, despite their weak defense, score stars.
You get medals for winning your league. One out of eight wins, seven lose. But the win is based on winning stars, and engineers score stars. The engineer penalty, stars surrendered, is diluted among all seven opposition clans. But every star won goes onto my score.

To be clear, I will say it again. THIS WILL NOT NOT NOT GET YOU TO THE TOP TIERS. But for the average Joe's in tiers 8 through 12, where th bell curve is going to dump most of us, there is no disadvantage to end engineering.

Or as I said before, for the hoi polloi, the defacto effect will be de minimus.

These forums are English only. Please refrain from speaking ancient Greek or Latin.

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Everything you have said here is true but doesn’t mention the fact that the engineer would be better off building defenses since there is no weight to them. That is not necessarily true in regular wars. I do agree of course an engineered or rushed th11 is going to be better than, say, a max th8. Again, though, that th11 will be even better if it builds all defenses. Many probably won’t care and will stay engineered because they will care more about regular wars and will prefer to keep playing at a disadvantage in war league.

I tried reading this thread.. 2 pages I'm bored. Sorry

Basically 1st match. Don't take 11.5s

From 2nd month onwards u take better defence.. 11.5 is better than a th10. So unless u hav 15 th12 n th11. U better take those 10.5s or low def th12. They will defend better than th10.. when u know 2nd time. It wont b match making. Lol

I thought it doesn't depend on war weights.

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Originally Posted by Clasher PrEm

I thought it doesn't depend on war weights.

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It uses weights when a clan registers for the first time. Your entry tier will be dependant on your 15 biggest/heaviest accounts that are registered for that week. After that, there are no weight penalties. If you want a low tier, go low first time, then roll out the heavies next time. But is both personal choice, and reward dependant, as to entry strategy.