A message to TH7's and 8's who LOVE war

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September 26th, 2018
JBRM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TankSinatra

Everybody skips leg day, don't skip leg day.
Just told an early th9, worry only about heroes. Your farming goal is dark for heroes, your builder management centered around heroes (and to a lesser extent walls). Do this and you'll accidentally max the rest of your base, including walls, while grinding heroes and be an effective th9 that's ready for th10.
Don't do this and you'll be a hair away from max offense & defense weight with baby heroes, and you'll be a liability. Which may not matter much at the bottom of our roster but I like to see people at least trying to pull their weight.

Exactly. I tell all my new th9s this: Do all your elixir upgrades first. Stay in gold, archers n goblins, do all camps, barracks, spell factories, drills, storages, everything elixir. Once theres no more elixir stuff to do, now you can farm full-time with drags and lightning and watch the DE pour in. Anything left over goes into walls and defenses. But 30/30 heroes are RAW time. Without hero books, you will spend money or you will wait. Don't rot in TH8
September 26th, 2018
Shadrach777

I would like to emphasize upgrading storages part. Especially if you are holding on to runes from CGs, wait to use them at TH9 with maxed storages. I still have one level left on my DE storage, but then I will be able to use my DE rune for 190k DE. I'll need to wait for next CG so I can use a hero book because I will be able to do 3 levels at once (4 if I had 2 books) on my new TH9.

I've always thought rushing was the way to go, I'm trying not to rush this 4th account, but it's hard not to at times. I was about to hit a bottle neck of nowhere to spend my elixir at TH8 (lab was already busy), and I maxed out my BK super early. ThereforeI made the natural jump to TH9 so I could have an elixir sink. I was able to upgrade all camps within the first week. I'm trying to slow roll my defense upgrades and just work on heroes and walls. I think any TH7 or TH8 will easily tell you getting the 4th AD and additional traps immediately kills the dragon attacks and holds off some of the bad laloon attackers.

I'm also the guy who jumped to TH11 with level 14 BK and level 11 AQ back in November of 2016. I don't know if I can advocate that anymore since we are now required to build everything. As others have stated I think getting to TH9 as quick as possible to start the hero upgrade is great advice. Especially if people want to take advantage of the pots/runes one gets from CGs.
September 26th, 2018
littledoctor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tosti111

I think you may have overstated the death of engineering slightly. Agreed, most common forms are now severely handicapped but roster engineering is still going strong. Not making a value judgement about it's merits, simply acknowledging it's existence.

I suspect our disagreement might actually be over the definition of "massively inferior opponents". Roster engineering can maybe give a one or two base advantage up top, and often times that's all a clan needs to win, but extreme roster engineering these days (such as 10 Th12, 10 Th3) just searches forever without finding an opponent.

I don't claim that engineering in general gives zero advantage. I claim that it doesn't give massively inferior opponent bases any more. (And additionally, that this is good.)

The most effective war streak strategies now might not even technically be considered engineering: warring with little bases (I'm thinking TH5) and donating them max troops, or warring with mid to rushed TH10 on top and donating them siege machines. If we need a name for this, I propose Donation Engineering.
September 26th, 2018
littledoctor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadrach777

I'm also the guy who jumped to TH11 with level 14 BK and level 11 AQ back in November of 2016. I don't know if I can advocate that anymore since we are now required to build everything.

I feel similarly, and my new alt is backfilling to 40/40 at TH10. I think a key factor wrt rushing to TH11 is if you are able to consistently dip in wars, or if your attacks will be needed to hit bases on your level. I don't personally have the skill to 3 star nonrushed TH11s with small heroes.
September 26th, 2018
Practical

Yeah good advice as still as they do not build x bows at th 9
September 26th, 2018
2222

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBRM

Let me also add to this that many times in the last month especially since Ive recruited th9's to help with clan games that the number 1 complaint I hear all the time "I have 7.5m gold with nothing to do with it", meanwhile they got 18/17 heroes.... Listen, I have more accounts than Major, and they're quality accounts, they're not junk. I know exactly what Im saying here, th9 is the sweet spot for upgrading heroes. If you have no clue what you're doing, then yes, stay at th7 and 8, have fun. But as a clan leader that runs 40v40 with good mix of th12-th9, if you've got the accounts to clean up the mess on aisle 6, having guys that are into the game rush to th9 to begin the long road of heroes is the way to go. They will learn all the major attacks by being engaged to the wars and have almost a year or so to do it. Now, I am NOT an advocate of rushing to th10. TH10 I firmly believe you need 30/30 heroes before you start this process, otherwise you are another "run of the mill" th10 in which I don't want you in the lineup.

I agree for players that plan to progress through to th9 eventually anyway that they should do it once their king is level 10, assuming they want to get to an advanced th9 as fast as possible. If that is the case they should not sit at th8 wasting elixir and dark elixir. Some don’t care about that, though, and that is fine too. I have a th8 wasting both elixirs right now but I don’t care. I like having a th8 in war. After I learn what CWL is all about maybe I will move up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TankSinatra

Everybody skips leg day, don't skip leg day.

This is awesome. I’m a more casual weight lifter now than back in my school days (running more though), but I know exactly what this means.
September 26th, 2018
JBRM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2222

I agree for players that plan to progress through to th9 eventually anyway that they should do it once their king is level 10, assuming they want to get to an advanced th9 as fast as possible. If that is the case they should not sit at th8 wasting elixir and dark elixir. Some don’t care about that, though, and that is fine too. I have a th8 wasting both elixirs right now but I don’t care. I like having a th8 in war. After I learn what CWL is all about maybe I will move up.

This is awesome. I’m a more casual weight lifter now than back in my school days (running more though), but I know exactly what this means.

I will give you a CWL heads up: You will be making bases just about every week because every base gets burnt (which I personally didn't like). There is always drama on discord. Which clan is bending the rules, which ambassadors are difficult to deal with, etc. It is very time consuming. If you're not married, don't have kids, or don't have a demanding job, then I guess its ok. The main pro to it is the competition of attacking maxed meta bases which is always nice. But be prepared for a time-consuming process.
September 26th, 2018
Tosti111

Quote:

Originally Posted by littledoctor

I suspect our disagreement might actually be over the definition of "massively inferior opponents". Roster engineering can maybe give a one or two base advantage up top, and often times that's all a clan needs to win, but extreme roster engineering these days (such as 10 Th12, 10 Th3) just searches forever without finding an opponent.

I don't claim that engineering in general gives zero advantage. I claim that it doesn't give massively inferior opponent bases any more. (And additionally, that this is good.)

The most effective war streak strategies now might not even technically be considered engineering: warring with little bases (I'm thinking TH5) and donating them max troops, or warring with mid to rushed TH10 on top and donating them siege machines. If we need a name for this, I propose Donation Engineering.

I would call it Manufactured Streaking. Almost like a real win streak but without any of the bragging rights.
September 26th, 2018
TankSinatra

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tosti111

I would call it Manufactured Streaking. Almost like a real win streak but without any of the bragging rights.

Streaks are a poor measure for clans anyway. You just don't flip a coin and call it correctly 20+ times in a row, anybody's long streak proves they're not facing significant competition in the average spin.
September 26th, 2018
Noctaire

Quote:

Originally Posted by littledoctor

This hasn't been true for over a year. There are no matches between engineers and massively inferior opponents any more, except in skill level, and skill level mismatches can happen to any clan. (I realize our friends from mars might disagree but I think if they faced equal skill opponents they'd tie.)

I really do wish this were the case, but it unfortunately is still a significant issue for clans with a wide range of THs in their roster. I see it all the time when I run wars and I’d like to think I’m at least pretty decent at my attacks.... :smirk: I have TH7 thru TH12 and some of the matches we pull are ridiculous; I’m not talking just one or two up top either. Mixed clans are the new prey of the heavily engineered roster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by littledoctor

Indeed! Strategic rushing is now the dominant engineering strategy. However I'd say that OP doesn't take it quite far enough. Rushing to TH9 then backfilling is fine, but not as good as rushing to TH10 then backfilling, because TH10s get better loot in multiplayer and can receive siege machines in their CC. TH10s obviously have better offense overall, and having a tighter spread of bases reportedly helps clan war matching as well (though rushed 10s on the bottom of your war map won't affect it very much).

The one reason perhaps not to rush to 10 is if it's your first account. There is a lot to learn in those early TH levels and it would be a shame to miss out on, say, TH8 mass hog attacks. But on your alt, yes, absolutely rush to 10 then backfill.

I half agree, half disagree here. I’ve never been a proponent of the whole, “there’s so much to learn at the lower levels” bit. Once you understand the basics of the game, you can learn everything you need just fine at TH9/TH10. I do think, though, that TH10 may have become the new sweet spot. Only thing keeping me from going all the way on that is farming with GiBArch - it works great all the way through TH9 but at TH10, I’ve just not quite gotten the hang of it. Of course, I’ve only recently really started playing TH10 again - I previously skipped it for TH11 and things were much different there the last time I actually played it.

So long as players remember to build up their farming troops before advancing, they’ll usually come out ok in the end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBRM

Exactly. I tell all my new th9s this: Do all your elixir upgrades first. Stay in gold, archers n goblins, do all camps, barracks, spell factories, drills, storages, everything elixir. Once theres no more elixir stuff to do, now you can farm full-time with drags and lightning and watch the DE pour in. Anything left over goes into walls and defenses. But 30/30 heroes are RAW time. Without hero books, you will spend money or you will wait. Don't rot in TH8

Why Gold? I’ve found Crystal to be a much better place for TH9/TH10 loot.

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