Can the Ladder be changed & Trophy push be more Encouraged & Meaningful?

"Trophy push is a grind, losing them is a lightning struck."

Personally, I think ladder is a big fat hole in the chest of the game. A beautiful game cage in its flawed structure.

While Cloud issue remains the ultimate feature needing a fix. One of the many aspects aka the "Trophy offer/Ladder structure/Trophy push is something that, IMO, needs to be revisited as well, soon.

While the trophy push should be competitive, it should also be encouraging. To make it a grind is true but to allow bullying just sends the wrong message. With bullying, I mean how easy it's to lose 40+ trophies while defending against a higher base troops because they are lower in leagues. Personally, calling it a defense doesn't sound right because from the get go when a higher base locks onto a lower base, the outcome is very much sealed.

What would be fair is that if trophy push is a grind then it should be a grind irrespective of Base/Troop levels. It's pretty understandable that TH12 farming in Gold league can climb Leagues at will without any grind, just by smashing TH7, TH8, TH9 etc back to back just by using BArch or a Hero(es).

Now that's one way to do it and I firmly believe that there's many other easier, cheaper way of smashing lower base and devaluing their grind through this act, which I call, of Bullying.

So, in all sincerity, I believe that Trophy offering system needs to be changed and be made fair in all around aspect. If it's a grind for one, then it should be a grind for everybody.

Now, to talk about a possible solution, IMO,

- The trophy offers needs to be TH based with respect to every other THs.

For example: While a TH7 can take 30 cups from raiding another TH7, no other THs can have the same trophies by raiding a TH7 irrespective of in which league a player is.

It could be if TH7 gets 30 cups from three starring a TH7, the TH8 can get only 25 cups by doing same, TH9 can get 20 etc. The lower THs can get 35, 40, 45, 50 cups. Also, the much higher one's could either be given a juicy +1 trophies or be penalised -5 or -10 trophies for raiding much lower THs.

- Let the farmers be farmers, trophy pusher be a trophy pusher and if someone wants to have the best of both worlds then let them show some skills.

- Yes, it's an offense oriented game but give defense a bit of a chance Universally across all bases against all bases.

- Let the defense building mean more than just a "mandatory placing" to move to next base, on ladder.

- Let the ladder mean more than just having a different badge.

- Let the ladder send a positive message than a disheartening one. Let ladder play be a meaningful experience overally.

Agreed with you

I have been pushing for trophies last few months. Last month I tried to hit 6k. I fell 10 trophies short. It didn't help that I was looking for 1 raid for over 7 hours & my second raid took about 2 hours. If not for that I would of broke over 6k, plus spending gems for shields was wasted. They really need to fix this already. Been an ongoing issue for years. It was the reason I never pushed for trophies over the years besides last 3-4 months, because it really isn't worth the time wasted looking for a raid.

I think they need to let us hit people in titan or below even if its only worth 1 trophy which, many of the ones we hit are generally 2-6 on average anyway. rather hit something for 1 trophy asap, vs wait 7 hours to get 2-6. Sad state of affairs.

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Originally Posted by ShamanSoul

I have been pushing for trophies last few months. Last month I tried to hit 6k. I fell 10 trophies short. It didn't help that I was looking for 1 raid for over 7 hours & my second raid took about 2 hours. If not for that I would of broke over 6k, plus spending gems for shields was wasted. They really need to fix this already. Been an ongoing issue for years. It was the reason I never pushed for trophies over the years besides last 3-4 months, because it really isn't worth the time wasted looking for a raid.

I think they need to let us hit people in titan or below even if its only worth 1 trophy which, many of the ones we hit are generally 2-6 on average anyway. rather hit something for 1 trophy asap, vs wait 7 hours to get 2-6. Sad state of affairs.

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What you're saying, my friend, is though related here but more has to do with Clouds and I'm afraid, it's not what I intended for this thread to convey.

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Originally Posted by Sammydict

While the trophy push should be competitive, it should also be encouraging. To make it a grind is true but to allow bullying just sends the wrong message. With bullying, I mean how easy it's to lose 40+ trophies while defending against a higher base troops because they are lower in leagues. Personally, calling it a defense doesn't sound right because from the get go when a higher base locks onto a lower base, the outcome is very much sealed.

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Big fishes eat small fishes

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Originally Posted by TheGneissRock

Big fishes eat small fishes

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Thanks for the contribution. Really, appreciate it. :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Sammydict

"Trophy push is a grind, losing them is a lightning struck."

Personally, I think ladder is a big fat hole in the chest of the game. A beautiful game cage in its flawed structure.

While Cloud issue remains the ultimate feature needing a fix. One of the many aspects aka the "Trophy offer/Ladder structure/Trophy push is something that, IMO, needs to be revisited as well, soon.

While the trophy push should be competitive, it should also be encouraging. To make it a grind is true but to allow bullying just sends the wrong message. With bullying, I mean how easy it's to lose 40+ trophies while defending against a higher base troops because they are lower in leagues. Personally, calling it a defense doesn't sound right because from the get go when a higher base locks onto a lower base, the outcome is very much sealed.

What would be fair is that if trophy push is a grind then it should be a grind irrespective of Base/Troop levels. It's pretty understandable that TH12 farming in Gold league can climb Leagues at will without any grind, just by smashing TH7, TH8, TH9 etc back to back just by using BArch or a Hero(es).

Now that's one way to do it and I firmly believe that there's many other easier, cheaper way of smashing lower base and devaluing their grind through this act, which I call, of Bullying.

So, in all sincerity, I believe that Trophy offering system needs to be changed and be made fair in all around aspect. If it's a grind for one, then it should be a grind for everybody.

Now, to talk about a possible solution, IMO,

- The trophy offers needs to be TH based with respect to every other THs.

For example: While a TH7 can take 30 cups from raiding another TH7, no other THs can have the same trophies by raiding a TH7 irrespective of in which league a player is.

It could be if TH7 gets 30 cups from three starring a TH7, the TH8 can get only 25 cups by doing same, TH9 can get 20 etc. The lower THs can get 35, 40, 45, 50 cups. Also, the much higher one's could either be given a juicy +1 trophies or be penalised -5 or -10 trophies for raiding much lower THs.

- Let the farmers be farmers, trophy pusher be a trophy pusher and if someone wants to have the best of both worlds then let them show some skills.

- Yes, it's an offense oriented game but give defense a bit of a chance Universally across all bases against all bases.

- Let the defense building mean more than just a "mandatory placing" to move to next base, on ladder.

- Let the ladder mean more than just having a different badge.

- Let the ladder send a positive message than a disheartening one. Let ladder play be a meaningful experience overally.

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To summarize, are you suggesting trophy penalties similarly to loot penalties, based on town hall levels?

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Originally Posted by pppla

To summarize, are you suggesting trophy penalties similarly to loot penalties, based on town hall levels?

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More or less, yes, that's one thing I'm suggesting.

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Originally Posted by Sammydict

More or less, yes, that's one thing I'm suggesting.

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interesting. i can see more lower townhall (active) players push to at least titan for the league bonus. it might even help reduce the cloud issue in legend. however, it's hard to tell what kind of impact this will have on the game overall. only SC knows with their test lab and simulations.

So .. basically you want to make it easier for TH7's to push to Legends, because they wouldn't be punished as much (trophy wise) when they get crushed by higher TH's?

The -40 if you lose, +6 if you win trophy offers up in Titan are there for a reason. There are many more opponents below you than above you.


I admit, that the trophy push in Legend becomes really, really annoying when you have spend an entire day gathering trophies at +4 per attack and then get hit for 40 trophies when you defend. Because the guy attacking you is down in Titan1. Those defences can extinguish your will to push after a few days (and yet, people push for months, I didn't, but people do)

I think that Legend League should be a separate Game Mode (like Builder Base, Clan Games and Clan War), that you can compete in as you please. Live attacks only, one League bracket per Town Hall level. TH7s will only face TH7s, TH12s will only face TH12s. 1-3 points per attack depending on the stars acquired. 2 points extra for a win.

The current Trophy ladder could continue as it is, because the long clouds do seem to fit the play style of some players.

/Affront

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Originally Posted by Affront

So .. basically you want to make it easier for TH7's to push to Legends, because they wouldn't be punished as much (trophy wise) when they get crushed by higher TH's?

The -40 if you lose, +6 if you win trophy offers up in Titan are there for a reason. There are many more opponents below you than above you.


I admit, that the trophy push in Legend becomes really, really annoying when you have spend an entire day gathering trophies at +4 per attack and then get hit for 40 trophies when you defend. Because the guy attacking you is down in Titan1. Those defences can extinguish your will to push after a few days (and yet, people push for months, I didn't, but people do)

I think that Legend League should be a separate Game Mode (like Builder Base, Clan Games and Clan War), that you can compete in as you please. Live attacks only, one League bracket per Town Hall level. TH7s will only face TH7s, TH12s will only face TH12s. 1-3 points per attack depending on the stars acquired. 2 points extra for a win.

The current Trophy ladder could continue as it is, because the long clouds do seem to fit the play style of some players.

/Affront

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How can you conclude TH7's can easily climb up higher leagues? It's quite believable to understand that as a TH7 start to push, it'll most likely start getting with higher bases for ratio of higher to lower bases in the leagues tilts towards higher bases with higher leagues.

Now, you tell me do you think TH7 will have a higher win rate against higher bases? I think, No.

This ain't a question about how many are above or below you. It's about having a fair, stabilised trophy/ladder structure. Trophy offers should be relative to competitiveness and should be skill based. Only then the Leaderboards will hold meanings.

A separate ladder can solve everything but not sure how much it's viable at this point.

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Originally Posted by Sammydict

How can you conclude TH7's can easily climb up higher leagues? It's quite believable to understand that as a TH7 start to push, it'll most likely start getting with higher bases for ratio of higher to lower bases in the leagues tilts towards higher bases with higher leagues.

Now, you tell me do you think TH7 will have a higher win rate against higher bases? I think, No.

This ain't a question about how many are above or below you. It's about having a fair, stabilised trophy/ladder structure. Trophy offers should be relative to competitiveness and should be skill based. Only then the Leaderboards will hold meanings.

A separate ladder can solve everything but not sure how much it's viable at this point.

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What I got from Affront’s post was:

Th7 in Titan faces th11s and th12s predominantly and would be hitting for 10-19 trophies for a 1 star.

On defence because of a trophy penalty they may only lose a max of say 20 if hit by a th12.

Therefore as long as they attack 3 times for every defence they will climb quickly.


I pushed to champs 1 as a th8 using just archers and goblins as I was very choosy in the type of bases I wanted to hit and went for attacks where I could secure a 50% destruction from exposed buildings. Same principle (albeit with a stronger army) would see a lower th level rise rapidly as long as they can be patient with the next button.

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Originally Posted by Sammydict

Thanks for the contribution. Really, appreciate it. :thumbsup:

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You come from Clash Royale, yes? A level 8 playing against a level 12 with appropriately levelled commons will always be at a disadvantage because that's just how the natural order is. It works the same way here. A TH12 raiding a TH7 should find it easy because they've put that much more time/effort/money into developing their base. The longest you spend at the lower THs (1 to 9; 82 days to max queen at TH9 which is the bottleneck for that TH) is about 3-4 months each with efficient farming. If you feel like taking up a challenge to trophy push rather than upgrading and making the push easier later on, then let it be a challenge.

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Originally Posted by Sammydict

Also, the much higher one's could either be given a juicy +1 trophies or be penalised -5 or -10 trophies for raiding much lower THs.

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This is arguably the most flawed part in your post. You know the clouds are an issue, and you want to worsen the situation by removing bases from the attacking pool for those players?

I don’t agree with a system that makes it easier for lower halls to push trophies as I think that would encourage perma-base playing. It is better to encourage and reward the upgrading/progression of bases, yes even to reward spending gems to do so.

However, I do agree with the overall premise of it being unfair that there are such wide differences in trophy offers. I think it might be better if we just had a standard trophy offer for 1, 2 and 3 stars on every attack, without a comparison between the trophies of the attacker and defender. The trophies would still be part of the matching system, but would not determine the amount of trophies that could be won/lost on the attack.

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Originally Posted by TheGneissRock

You come from Clash Royale, yes? A level 8 playing against a level 12 with appropriately levelled commons will always be at a disadvantage because that's just how the natural order is. It works the same way here. A TH12 raiding a TH7 should find it easy because they've put that much more time/effort/money into developing their base. The longest you spend at the lower THs (1 to 9; 82 days to max queen at TH9 which is the bottleneck for that TH) is about 3-4 months each with efficient farming. If you feel like taking up a challenge to trophy push rather than upgrading and making the push easier later on, then let it be a challenge.


This is arguably the most flawed part in your post. You know the clouds are an issue, and you want to worsen the situation by removing bases from the attacking pool for those players?

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WADR, Clash Royale is a lot different from Clash of Clans and your comparison is pretty scarcely relative to what I've been saying here.

In CR, Troops play equal percent to both offense & defense. Here both offense & defense have relatively different layouts. Offense here has troops & defense for most part has buildings, walls, designs of combined both. The gameplay there heavily relies on skill & strategy. Here the walls alone is capable of making a difference in the outcome. Last but not least there a Lvl 8 player can easily 3 star a lvl 12 player. Can't figure that out, ask me how?

Now, do you really see a TH7 3 starring or even winning over TH12 unless the defense has a weak base design. Personally, I believe not for I'm a TH9 already and pretty much can make the call that if a higher base is decently design then it can scare the hell outta most raiders and compell them to hit next.

Also, mind elaboration on your last part, please.

Thank you!

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Originally Posted by 2222

I don’t agree with a system that makes it easier for lower halls to push trophies as I think that would encourage perma-base playing. It is better to encourage and reward the upgrading/progression of bases, yes even to reward spending gems to do so.

However, I do agree with the overall premise of it being unfair that there are such wide differences in trophy offers. I think it might be better if we just had a standard trophy offer for 1, 2 and 3 stars on every attack, without a comparison between the trophies of the attacker and defender. The trophies would still be part of the matching system, but would not determine the amount of trophies that could be won/lost on the attack.

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I can relate to your statement, mate but I'll slightly agree to disagree with your observations.

What I'm suggesting in no direct way eases the push for smaller TH players rather ask players in general to put a minimum effort in getting a decent base/main village. In no way, I personally think that a TH7, 8 or even 9 would be able to scrub further than one or two layers of walls of TH12 if their bases are decent enough. In fact, what I think is that my suggestion could pretty much even the playing ground with respect to Townhall levels. TH7 getting matched more with TH7 then any other base. It'll likely make the Leagues appeal be more distinct & dignified. Then if one sees a TH9 in legend then one can easily say that the person has some mad level skills than 100s of Clash dedicated hours.

As for your suggestion regarding, trophies per star system will only add to the current flawed structure of ladder.

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Originally Posted by SteveoUk

What I got from Affront’s post was:

Th7 in Titan faces th11s and th12s predominantly and would be hitting for 10-19 trophies for a 1 star.

On defence because of a trophy penalty they may only lose a max of say 20 if hit by a th12.

Therefore as long as they attack 3 times for every defence they will climb quickly.


I pushed to champs 1 as a th8 using just archers and goblins as I was very choosy in the type of bases I wanted to hit and went for attacks where I could secure a 50% destruction from exposed buildings. Same principle (albeit with a stronger army) would see a lower th level rise rapidly as long as they can be patient with the next button.

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Thanks for trying to elaborate on Affront's. That being said, I pretty much had that received when I responded.

I myself have comfortably pushed to Champs in a few months since debuting in March. But honestly, that has more to do with the grind than skill, more with how little to no importance defense deceives than my offense can deliver.

To rephrase & re-texture one of my earlier response, I want that people pay little more attention to designing bases if they either want climb leagues or hang onto current one.

I want the offense to be more rewarding in terms of skill than hours of grind and that can be done by setting up a probability to TH levels , a particular TH gets matched to inside a session of clouding.

I want to see farming & trophy be differentiate by skills. You wanna farm, stop thinking about losing raids. You want to farm and win as well, then show some skills.

I might have missed mentioning earlier but the trophies we are subjected to lose on losing raids can be restructured too where it should feel like a huge risk when a smaller base player decides to take on higher base player in greed of a huge trophy jump.

It can be if you're been offered 50 trophies for 3 starring a higher base, you're subjected to losing 50 trophies on failing to win at least a star.

I'll detail this last bit more clearly and will add to OP later.