[Serious] Discussion regarding the effectiveness of the loot system change.

My personal take on the matter is that while it is a pretty big change, it that it probably wasn't ever meant to solve certain loot issues. The purpose seems to be redistributive in nature, aiming to weaken the "penalty for progression" that many players (myself included) feel makes winning resources unnecessarily tough at TH 10 in particular. Obviously we will see how effective this is at that once the dust settles from the update, but my guess is that it will pretty much have the intended effect. Loot will probably end up slightly more concentrated in the upper level THs is my prediction.

Now, this does not add any additional resources to the economy. Since that's the case, it's obviously not a change that is meant to help the overall loot situation in any way. But, what we may see is that if they can get the distribution of resources right, they may be in a better position to add more loot later.

My 2 big takeaways from this are:

A) They acknowledged that there was a problem with loot at the higher TH levels and
B) They are doing something about it.

Another point I want to add is this may bring some excitement/risk back to high level defense to an extent. Players will be targeted if they have 400k in their storages, almost regardless of how strong their base is, assuming they are approximately the same TH level. I felt that defense was getting rather stale and unless cupping, I pretty much log off without ever caring about loot. At least now I hope to see some decent farming attacks on my base every now and then.

Maybe it's the best solution, maybe it isn't, but I think it's better than nothing is a pretty good step in the right direction.

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Originally Posted by daz258

It is a good update, make no mistake about it.

Previously, the loot apex was at TH7 & TH8 due to the loot bonus system. That was genuinely wrong, the loot apex should be at TH9 & TH10. Now it is.

With a strong hall 9 or hall 10, not only do you have the option to bash down collectors. You have the option to raise trophies and find good storage loot with a league bonus supplement.

I think a few of the more well developed hall 9s and hall 10s will head north now, at the very least to test whether loot is just as good up there.

But as the original poster said, quite often the problem is players don't have much loot available; period. Even hall 9s and 10s often have under 100k available. Why? There is just too many 'gold pits' in the game, not only defense buildings; but traps & walls also. With the new rules those players will have even less. That concerns me.

The production rate freezing between TH7 & TH9 also lingers. Why can a hall with next to no costs generate the same as a hall with outrageous costs?

More liquidity at the top as opposed to TH7 & TH8 is good, make no mistake. But if nothing supplements this we still have the same loot been generated into the game. The demand for gold has for quite sometime now far outweighed the output.

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I agree completely and feel like SuperCell needs to consider complementing this loot system change with the propositions that I suggested in the main post.

I don't think loot should be outrageously easy to get, but it shouldn't be crazy hard to find.

Right now, there is absolutely no incentive to upgrade my mines, collectors or drills. It is actually detrimental to do so because it makes the likelihood of getting attacked higher. They really need to encourage people to upgrade them as well as increase the production rate and storage (within the mine, collector, or drill).

If they do this, I feel like we will see a nice return to the loot system. There will be much less whining on the forum (a thread with 40+ pages complaining about loot is quite a bit).

I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels like they need to complement the loot system change with something more.

So as a th8, I could take out one gold storage and potentially get 100k? Wouldn't this be too easy? Plus wouldn't this also lead to a lot more th outside the walls? I personally would really like this update, but wouldn't it be a disaster for most players? Wouldn't it make it EVEN harder to save up? Cause for most th10, taking out 2 storages is rather easy as a th8… especially once you hit crystal. The whole thing is rather beffudling…

This added with higher league bonuses added with achievements for upgrading your mines and collectors can finally fix loot problems once and for all.

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Originally Posted by zachUVA

Maybe it's the best solution, maybe it isn't, but I think it's better than nothing is a pretty good step in the right direction.

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Agree 100% there. It is the type of thing, you, myself and others have been fighting for.

And we got it. Liquidity moved to where it is needed most.

But as competitive gamers we want out cake and to eat it too. The other side of the loot coin is not enough loot generated to meed demand. I hope that is on the cards next. Either incentive to upgrade mines [achievement], wholesale production rate boost, lv 12 mines/collectors, league boosts etc...

I think in general you could be right, it will help very active players, because it will increase the rate at which they are (theoretically) able to personally acquire loot, by more than the rate at which they will lose it.

However you are correct overall gold and elixir need to be created in the game to allow for buildings to be upgraded etc.

So we have the (gold) economy of:

GOLD IS GENERATED IN THE GAME:
Mines create gold
Win bonuses

GOLD IS TRANSFERRED IN THE GAME BETWEEN PLAYERS:
Raiding

GOLD IS LOST FROM THE GAME:
Clicking Next
Upgrading buildings/walls etc
(Gold can only really be lost from the game as fast as it is created or slightly faster until a balance is reached)


This update has only fixed the Transfer between players, this will be faster, and fairer.

Loot is not created any faster, unless somehow this fix makes it more viable to raid at higher leagues (I don't see how this is the case though)

However loot will be spent faster as players with High totals of gold in the storages will be more inclined to protect them well, and turn risky gold resources into safer upgraded walls. Hopefully less loot will be lost to the game from clicking next as more bases will have decent levels of loot.

So loot not generated appreciably faster.
(Transfer rates mean little)
More loot probably spent in game as soon as it is available, rather than being held in reserves.

As the population of Clash of Clans matures, and more players have Mines that create only 432,000 (or 504,000) Gold but have building requirements that remove 2,000,000 gold from the game, as well as the 100,000s spent on [NEXT] loot will get harder to find.

Apart from inactive players (YAY!) there ought to be ongoing loot creation improvements.

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Originally Posted by zachUVA

My personal take on the matter is that while it is a pretty big change, it that it probably wasn't ever meant to solve certain loot issues. The purpose seems to be redistributive in nature, aiming to weaken the "penalty for progression" that many players (myself included) feel makes winning resources unnecessarily tough at TH 10 in particular. Obviously we will see how effective this is at that once the dust settles from the update, but my guess is that it will pretty much have the intended effect. Loot will probably end up slightly more concentrated in the upper level THs is my prediction.

Now, this does not add any additional resources to the economy. Since that's the case, it's obviously not a change that is meant to help the overall loot situation in any way. But, what we may see is that if they can get the distribution of resources right, they may be in a better position to add more loot later.

My 2 big takeaways from this are:

A) They acknowledged that there was a problem with loot at the higher TH levels and
B) They are doing something about it.

Another point I want to add is this may bring some excitement/risk back to high level defense to an extent. Players will be targeted if they have 400k in their storages, almost regardless of how strong their base is, assuming they are approximately the same TH level. I felt that defense was getting rather stale and unless cupping, I pretty much log off without ever caring about loot. At least now I hope to see some decent farming attacks on my base every now and then.

Maybe it's the best solution, maybe it isn't, but I think it's better than nothing is a pretty good step in the right direction.

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Interesting take on it zach.

I feel like after having that many complaints over the past month, that their intentions had to include loot for everyone not just for upper level town halls.

Yes this loot system seems like it is aimed for TH10s, but they can't simply ignore the fact that the loot has been awful for everyone lately. I believe they even acknowledged it. I was really hoping they were going to address that in this update. This past month has been terrible playing the game, so unrewarding and unproductive for me.

So, in your opinion, you don't believe they will address the lack of loot flowing in CoC in this update? Is there a time frame? If they have no plans to fix it and the loot system change doesn't fix it to a certain extent, I feel like I won't continue with CoC. I'm not trying to be dramatic, but it just isn't fun raiding when there isn't anything available.

I am glad that they have realized that progression has been penalized though, it definitely makes TH10 more enticing now.

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Originally Posted by Exiists

Yes, but this is assuming they have that much loot! Many bases simply lack that amount of loot for the past month. Which is my entire point. I have never had to press next so many times to find a base worth attacking. Sure, now that base that I've been attacking for 200k will have ~300k and it will slightly ease the pain.

However, all those bases in between will still be there with little to no loot. Which is where I feel the other part of the loot problem lies. I shouldn't have to hit next 20+ times to find loot worth unloading an army on.

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Most bases I attack have 200k capped gold.

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Originally Posted by PhilISuppose

I think in general you could be right, it will help very active players, because it will increase the rate at which they are (theoretically) able to personally acquire loot, by more than the rate at which they will lose it.

However you are correct overall gold and elixir need to be created in the game to allow for buildings to be upgraded etc.

So we have the (gold) economy of:

GOLD IS GENERATED IN THE GAME:
Mines create gold
Win bonuses

GOLD IS TRANSFERRED IN THE GAME BETWEEN PLAYERS:
Raiding

GOLD IS LOST FROM THE GAME:
Clicking Next
Upgrading buildings/walls etc
(Gold can only really be lost from the game as fast as it is created or slightly faster until a balance is reached)


This update has only fixed the Transfer between players, this will be faster, and fairer.

Loot is not created any faster, unless somehow this fix makes it more viable to raid at higher leagues (I don't see how this is the case though)

However loot will be spent faster as players with High totals of gold in the storages will be more inclined to protect them well, and turn risky gold resources into safer upgraded walls. Hopefully less loot will be lost to the game from clicking next as more bases will have decent levels of loot.

So loot not generated appreciably faster.
(Transfer rates mean little)
More loot probably spent in game as soon as it is available, rather than being held in reserves.

As the population of Clash of Clans matures, and more players have Mines that create only 432,000 (or 504,000) Gold but have building requirements that remove 2,000,000 gold from the game, as well as the 100,000s spent on [NEXT] loot will get harder to find.

Apart from inactive players (YAY!) there ought to be ongoing loot creation improvements.

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Precisely! A much more in depth explanation than what I gave. I believe some slight adjustments are needed to keep up with the gold demand.

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Originally Posted by Dualsabers04

Most bases I attack have 200k capped gold.

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I wish I could say the same! It is apparent that it isn't the same for a very large portion of forum members. There was a 'loot is terrible' thread quite often over the past month. ;) just because the problem isn't there for you, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

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Originally Posted by Exiists

Interesting take on it zach.

I feel like after having that many complaints over the past month, that their intentions had to include loot for everyone not just for upper level town halls.

Yes this loot system seems like it is aimed for TH10s, but they can't simply ignore the fact that the loot has been awful for everyone lately. I believe they even acknowledged it. I was really hoping they were going to address that in this update. This past month has been terrible playing the game, so unrewarding and unproductive for me.

So, in your opinion, you don't believe they will address the lack of loot flowing in CoC in this update? Is there a time frame? If they have no plans to fix it and the loot system change doesn't fix it to a certain extent, I feel like I won't continue with CoC. I'm not trying to be dramatic, but it just isn't fun raiding when there isn't anything available.

I am glad that they have realized that progression has been penalized though, it definitely makes TH10 more enticing now.

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Yeah, I think pretty much everyone would love more loot, but we all know how careful SC is about adding more loot in the game (ex: how long it was between leagues introduction and the bonus buff). I'm really just speculating here, but I don't see any reason why they would change their patterns now, especially after a huge change like this. And of course no matter what SC does there will always be those clammering for more loot. There is a balance here somewhere between making loot reasonable, but not abundant and I think that's where the aim should be.