Level 6 Troops, too expensive? Level 12 COLLECTORS needed.

Okay, so level 4 archers cost 750,000 elixir to upgrade I believe. Level 5 then cost 2,250,000 elixir. The new level 6 archers cost 7,500,000 elixir, so the question is: was the the proper rate of increase?

Sadly when I do the math, the answer is yes. So all of this bashing on SuperCell for being greedy is simply laziness and today's standard of the "I must have it now!" mentality. HOWEVER, with these rates staying the same, they are saying that level 4 healers, dragons, and pekka will change at the same rate... Which means, pekka will cost 20,000,000 elixir (or more!), with dragons and healers also close to that number.
I will say... I didn't pull out my handy dandy calculator for this one... It's just logic. I'll save that for someone else to do (it is not my job...)

I do not believe that supercell wants to add another level to our storages, but at this rate they will have to which in my mind could throw of this games economy once again.... Which would suck.

All theories aside, WE NEED LEVEL 12 COLLECTORS WITH TWICE THE RATE OF PRODUCTION AS LEVEL 11s, AND MAY EVEN NEED LEVEL 13 COLLECTORS IF WE ACTUALLY PLAN TO ACHIEVE THESE 20,000,000 ELIXIR UPGRADES TO OUR TROOPS!

at least you're not one of those complainers saying 6 and 7.5mill is way to much.

but for the future, just let it rest. if CoC will indeed bring those high level dragons, healers and pekkas, they probably will increase one of those thing too.

Would be better for them just to fix current collector upgrades to make them worthwhile. There's no way they should go up 300 every single level... That may be a lot at TH4 but by the time you get around TH 8, 300 per hour means nothing. Upgrades more than double in cost every level on every building, yet collectors keep the same rate of increase. It's stupid, really.

Also they need to show the true cost of upgrading. They tell you a mine upgrade costs 56k and 3 days, yet they fail to tell you that when factoring in the money you lose while the upgrade is taking place, the upgrade doesnt start making profit for 21 days. If you looked at that same upgrade screen and it told you 21 days instead of 3, a lot less people would be upgrading them.

Supercell-- up the output incrementally from level to level, and allow mines to keep producing while they are being upgraded. The current system made no economic sense to begin with, but it is clear that you intend to keep adding more and more expensive items. If that's the case, you'll still get morons with gems who don't want to wait, but make the damn game playable for those who have spent months getting that far, instead of having a game that requires you to spend 6 months getting to the "top tier", and then another 6 months to actually upgrade to the good stuff once you're there. It's blatantly obvious you are just trying make people feel like they've invested so much time they will buy gems to finish it out and have no actual interest in making the game playable for everyone.

I agree entirely with the they should "up the output" bit. Which really is all that they need to do, obviously much higher than 300 per hour extra. I don't however see it as an issue that they don't produce when being upgraded.. It kind of makes sense, which is why the upgrades are dirt cheap to begin with. None of the upgrades cost over 200,000 resource... And it costs more than twice that to get walls from level 7-8 which is where I'm at now... So yah, make them produce much faster!

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Originally Posted by sadowskiandrew

I agree entirely with the they should "up the output" bit. Which really is all that they need to do, obviously much higher than 300 per hour extra. I don't however see it as an issue that they don't produce when being upgraded.. It kind of makes sense, which is why the upgrades are dirt cheap to begin with. None of the upgrades cost over 200,000 resource... And it costs more than twice that to get walls from level 7-8 which is where I'm at now... So yah, make them produce much faster!

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Here's the problem.

It costs 56k and 3 days building time to upgrade a mine from I think level 8 to level 9.

At level 8, the mine produces 1900 per hour.

Factoring in downtime, the mine will lose 136,800 during the three days it is upgrading.

That means, to offset JUST the loss of production, that extra 300 per hour will take 456 hours before it breaks even, which is 19 days. These "wait times" before it becomes profitable are also multiplied exponentially at higher levels...I'd hate to know what 10 to 11 costs you (probably 2 months)

Yet, somehow, the mine claims this upgrade only costs you 56k and 3 days. It should tell you that it costs you 136,800 and 19 days, but then nobody would upgrade them. It just comes off as another way that they can trick you into building something that you won't really benefit you the way you think it will so that you'll have to invest more time into other things later, thus upping your chances of getting frustrated and eventually dumping more gems into the game.

Transparency would be nice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bsmittyau

Here's the problem.

It costs 56k and 3 days building time to upgrade a mine from I think level 8 to level 9.

At level 8, the mine produces 1900 per hour.

Factoring in downtime, the mine will lose 136,800 during the three days it is upgrading.

That means, to offset JUST the loss of production, that extra 300 per hour will take 456 hours before it breaks even, which is 19 days. Add in the 3 days that you took to build it, and that's 22 days before you're actually making any profit on this upgrade. These "wait times" before it becomes profitable are also multiplied exponentially at higher levels...I'd hate to know what 10 to 11 costs you (probably 2 months)

Yet, somehow, the mine claims this upgrade only costs you 56k and 3 days. It should tell you that it costs you 136,800 and 22 days, but then nobody would upgrade them. It just comes off as another way that they can trick you into building something that you won't really benefit you the way you think it will so that you'll have to invest more time into other things later, thus upping your chances of getting frustrated and eventually dumping more gems into the game.

Transparency would be nice.

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Level	Build Cost http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...5px-Elixir.png	Build Time	Capacity (Gold) http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__.../20px-Gold.png	Production Rate	Hitpoints	Time to Fill	Time to Profitability	Town Hall Level Required
1	150	1m	500	200/hr	400	2h 30m	N/A	1
2	300	5m	1,000	400/hr	450	2h 30m	5m	1
3	700	15m	1,500	600/hr	500	2h 30m	30m	2
4	1,400	1h	3,500	800/hr	550	3h 7m 30s	3h	2
5	3,000	4h	10,000	1,000/hr	590	10h	16h	3
6	7,000	12h	20,000	1,300/hr	610	15h 23m 5s	1d 16h	3
7	14,000	1d	30,000	1,600/hr	630	18h 45m	4d 8h	4
8	28,000	2d	50,000	1,900/hr	660	1d 2h 18m 57s	10d 16h	4
9	56,000	3d	75,000	2,200/hr	680	1d 10h 5m 28s	19d	5
10	84,000	4d	100,000	2,500/hr	710	1d 16h	29d 8h	5
11	168,000	5d	150,000	3,000/hr	750	2d 2h	25d	7

it is ignorant to say it will cost you more. you just make a little bit less profit while its upgrading.
a mortar isn't active when it's upgrading, a cannon isn't active while it's upgrading, so a collecter, to, isn't active.

so just like your defense will be a bit weaker, your income will be a bit less

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Destiny

it is ignorant to say it will cost you more. you just make a little bit less profit while its upgrading.
a mortar isn't active when it's upgrading, a cannon isn't active while it's upgrading, so a collecter, to, isn't active.

so just like your defense will be a bit weaker, your income will be a bit less

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Using your logic, since Army Camps don't lose their ability to house troops while upgrading, why should a mine lose it's function? Both of these buildings is more of a "utility" building than a defense, so it's okay for the defense category to behave differently.

Need another example? Upgrade a troop in your lab or a spell in your factory. Midway before the upgrade is finished, you can do an upgrade on the building. Whenever the building is finished upgrading, the troop or spell upgrade picks up exactly where it left off. It's not simultaneous, but you definitely don't lose anything like you do with mines.

The fact is, the reason they function the way that they do has nothing to do with how defensive buildings act during upgrade or the price of tea in china. They set it this way to induce gem purchases at the expense of the game making any economic sense or being transparent about the true "times" of these upgrades. Its garbage.

It's also not ignorant to say that the upgrade costs you more than the game tells you. If you rent a house for 600.00 per month but you have to replace the floor for 1000.00, yet for a month the tenant can't live there and doesn't have to pay you the 600.00 rent for that month, the cost of your flooring is not 1000.00, it is 1600.00. Please don't even pursue arguing this point with me because there's nothing you can say that will disprove Math. If you open your post by calling someone ignorant it usually helps to have some idea what you're talking about.

Mines should still collect while being upgraded.

The idea of more prodution is great, the 900 mill it will cost players to get max walls not to mention all the other upgrades

it will take 5.7 years at max production 432k a day (just for walls)

even if you can clear 1.5 mill a day from raiding and max production it will take 1.6 years

this is a big goal post shift from the 500k wall max to the 3mill max wall sections

i could see me maxing my walls when it was 500k but now its just a dream a farmer just relying on production

if they don't increase production in some way the game is going to be very slow to get to max walls

I think production should get boosted as your trophies increase so players playing for trophies not just dropping them to get easyer raids get production boosts

I think you are right about the hidden cost of upgrading,

but i say just rip the band aid of and do it early in the game, as we are all going to be playing for years what does it realy matter

i think they are rising the prices too much. its not like we are going to buy gems everyday.

Bsmittyau makes a very strong case for himself :) I am convinced! 22 days... No way!

I think it was 19, I was snoop doggy doggin it a while ago and my math mighta been off a bit :P

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Originally Posted by Dave643

I think production should get boosted as your trophies increase so players playing for trophies not just dropping them to get easyer raids get production boosts

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Dave643, I really liked all of what you had to say, but let me focus on this part specifically.

I THINK THAT THIS IS A GREAT IDEA! I have heard a lot about "trophies don't matter, some perk needs to be added to having a lot of them". This makes perfect sense!

First off they up the production rates of collectors all together, perhaps add another level (gaining resources from your collector WILE upgrading it), level 12 collectors.
THEN the trophies come in:

500 trophies- 1.25x rate
1000 trophies- 2x rate
1500 trophie- 3.5x rate
2000 trophies- 5x rate
2500 trophies 7.5x rate
3000 trophies 10x rate

it is like you said, currently it will take 1.6 years of working your tail off with this game EVERY DAY, to maximize all of your walls, with raiding a whole bunch. The rates don't have to be exactly these, this was just an example.. But they should be high! Think about it... What happens when you get more trophies? Your competition all around you gets much tougher.
you could almost say that the BILLION of gold and elixir being spent at these higher trophies counts for dragons and from the pricey pricey wall surrounding the bases, seeps into the ground and enriches the very earth our bases are built upon.
Now our collectors have much more fertile crops to yield from XD

Right on Dave!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Michaelsd

Level	Build Cost http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...5px-Elixir.png	Build Time	Capacity (Gold) http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__.../20px-Gold.png	Production Rate	Hitpoints	Time to Fill	Time to Profitability	Town Hall Level Required
1	150	1m	500	200/hr	400	2h 30m	N/A	1
2	300	5m	1,000	400/hr	450	2h 30m	5m	1
3	700	15m	1,500	600/hr	500	2h 30m	30m	2
4	1,400	1h	3,500	800/hr	550	3h 7m 30s	3h	2
5	3,000	4h	10,000	1,000/hr	590	10h	16h	3
6	7,000	12h	20,000	1,300/hr	610	15h 23m 5s	1d 16h	3
7	14,000	1d	30,000	1,600/hr	630	18h 45m	4d 8h	4
8	28,000	2d	50,000	1,900/hr	660	1d 2h 18m 57s	10d 16h	4
9	56,000	3d	75,000	2,200/hr	680	1d 10h 5m 28s	19d	5
10	84,000	4d	100,000	2,500/hr	710	1d 16h	29d 8h	5
11	168,000	5d	150,000	3,000/hr	750	2d 2h	25d	7

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Just looked at this on a normal computer, I wasn't zoomed in enough on my phone haha. Thank you, nice job. I do see that they threw in the 500 increase from 10-11, but that's still a complete joke compared to the increases in cost of upgrades from level to level. The acceleration in production needs to be a little more drastic from upgrade to upgrade and not "plateau" for 5 levels at a time. It kills me to see the chart because it's like they understand the concept of increasing production over time, but they implemented it in probably the worst way imaginable so that not only do the build times increase as the game goes further, sometimes up to outrageous time frames, but the resources are purposely depleted as the costs SKYROCKET at higher levels. It's like they want you to get soooooo close to the end of the game only to basically force you to gem up at the end by offering you as little alternative as possible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bsmittyau

Here's the problem.

It costs 56k and 3 days building time to upgrade a mine from I think level 8 to level 9.

At level 8, the mine produces 1900 per hour.

Factoring in downtime, the mine will lose 136,800 during the three days it is upgrading.

That means, to offset JUST the loss of production, that extra 300 per hour will take 456 hours before it breaks even, which is 19 days. These "wait times" before it becomes profitable are also multiplied exponentially at higher levels...I'd hate to know what 10 to 11 costs you (probably 2 months)

Yet, somehow, the mine claims this upgrade only costs you 56k and 3 days. It should tell you that it costs you 136,800 and 19 days, but then nobody would upgrade them. It just comes off as another way that they can trick you into building something that you won't really benefit you the way you think it will so that you'll have to invest more time into other things later, thus upping your chances of getting frustrated and eventually dumping more gems into the game.

Transparency would be nice.

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-quote of the day! To be paired with Dave's on page 1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SolomonChen2013

Mines should still collect while being upgraded.

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No way..... A mine being upgraded a collecting gold wouldn't be fair since players can keep getting gold... When u upgrade lvl 10 mine to 11,,, you would get EVEN better than before so no....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gambit6

No way..... A mine being upgraded a collecting gold wouldn't be fair since players can keep getting gold... When u upgrade lvl 10 mine to 11,,, you would get EVEN better than before so no....

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What little sense you tried to make has already been disputed by the fact that other buildings can still function in certain instances while they are being upgraded. Please read the thread. Your post in the wall breaker thread is just as horrible. Provide some reasoning why you feel the way you do. People still being able to collect gold while they upgrade would not be unfair because it would be the same for every player. By definition, unfair would only apply if it were happening for some players but not others.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bsmittyau

Using your logic, since Army Camps don't lose their ability to house troops while upgrading, why should a mine lose it's function? Both of these buildings is more of a "utility" building than a defense, so it's okay for the defense category to behave differently.

Need another example? Upgrade a troop in your lab or a spell in your factory. Midway before the upgrade is finished, you can do an upgrade on the building. Whenever the building is finished upgrading, the troop or spell upgrade picks up exactly where it left off. It's not simultaneous, but you definitely don't lose anything like you do with mines.

The fact is, the reason they function the way that they do has nothing to do with how defensive buildings act during upgrade or the price of tea in china. They set it this way to induce gem purchases at the expense of the game making any economic sense or being transparent about the true "times" of these upgrades. Its garbage.

It's also not ignorant to say that the upgrade costs you more than the game tells you. If you rent a house for 600.00 per month but you have to replace the floor for 1000.00, yet for a month the tenant can't live there and doesn't have to pay you the 600.00 rent for that month, the cost of your flooring is not 1000.00, it is 1600.00. Please don't even pursue arguing this point with me because there's nothing you can say that will disprove Math. If you open your post by calling someone ignorant it usually helps to have some idea what you're talking about.

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The problem with this is that no one counts costs that way. Lost revenue isn't an expense, it's lost revenue. The price of flooring at Lowe's doesn't say "+the revenue you lose from an empty house." The cost of an education doesn't include the lost income from being in school while you could have been working. I agree that it is certainly lost income, but it isn't normally defined (or, imo, fairly defined) as a cost or included in costs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DonJoberto

The problem with this is that no one counts costs that way. Lost revenue isn't an expense, it's lost revenue. The price of flooring at Lowe's doesn't say "+the revenue you lose from an empty house." The cost of an education doesn't include the lost income from being in school while you could have been working. I agree that it is certainly lost income, but it isn't normally defined (or, imo, fairly defined) as a cost or included in costs.

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Dont revive a 2 year old thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SuperMarc

Dont revive a 2 year old thread.

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My sentiments exactly. We already have this. Why bring it back up?

STOP BUMPING THIS OLD THREAD! This will be its last post.