Bowlers/bo-witch still too strong

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThePeskyDingo

You can tell by the wall layout that these bases have poor designs... Not to mention mostly TH10 walls.

---

One of those bases was used by onehive in a cwl war as a th10 and defended two th11 dips. Still think it's a poor design? Btw he's just gone to th11 that's why he has the same base.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Plyc

Look, the point of your post was to showcase how OP bowitch is and how it's easy to 3 star with it.

Then now you tell me you're running a casual clan with bad designs and you don't care about that?? Then what's the point of complaining its op? Can I just run a casual clan a put all my defences in 1 corner and th in a mother then get 3 starred by barch then complain its OP?? Your logic...

And don't give me that the same bowitch was used on every base. If you paid attention you'd notice the army comp was slightly different for each attack. You might take a step back and say well, it's all gibowitch, but ultimately that's just the flavour of the day that was FEATURED RECENTLY in clickbait type videos on YouTube. (Do you watch that BD clashers channel?) Not to mention its extremely easy to perform, so causal clans much like your opponents pick it up easily.

Anyway the proof is in the pudding, like I already said earlier, come to my clan and challenge my bases. You'll see why spam bowitch just doesn't work. I'm not a pro builder that changes their base every week, these designs were inspired months ago by some bases I struggled against in war. Since there there haven't been any major changes other than single tile shifts here and there and trap adjustments.

Conclusion: Spam bowitch is only OP in casuals vs casuals scene because, 1) Multiphase attacks are too complicated for them to pull off so they just stick with an easy spam strategy, 2) Don't want to waste time copying a good base off CWL and tweaking it. It's that simple.

---

Btw you may not be a pro base builder but you do certainly sound like you know your base designs.

And fyi I was replying to you asking what bowitch compositions were 3 starring, so I showed you what we were facing. I never came here complaining they were op, I never came here screaming were running max bases with the latest league designs, I never came here saying our walls were maxed. I'm one of the few to come here and post evidence of what I'm seeing and get shot down by forum Heros. Everyone can 3 star around here and even better everyone defends. I'll hold off judging any attacking strategy from now on until my clan mates have max bases, max walls and built bases that the elite here would be proud of, but I'll be honest that may take a while.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Plyc

Maybe see nelard's post above? He shows some pretty epic bowitch fails. If you want you can come to my clan too, you'll be able to see some as well.

---

Your quick to rip apart base designs, a lot slower to mention none of those attacks had a siege machine, one of them didn't even take cc troops.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheGame1

https://i.imgur.com/se6dFYI.jpg

We just got smashed in our last war by the exact same army, checked their history before war started and they always get a very high destruction percentage so knew they'd be good, but I have no doubt they all take that army every single war and do well with it, all troops down in 3 lines within seconds of clicking attack.

The one hog attack they tried on one of our th12's with a power potion went horribly wrong.

To be fair I've personally been pushing that strategy on our clan for a few weeks now as a few youtubers have been saying how good it is, especially now with ww, I hope after seeing it demonstrated so flawlessly they start listening.

---

dude those are outdated base designs people stopped using them a year ago. No wonder they got trippled with spam army very easily

And here we go With the NERF squad again troop is too strong this that. OP you are most welcome to visit my clan and tripple any TH11 / TH12 base you want with bowitch. I bet you won't tripple any of them as they are up with the meta.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rephren

Edit: most infernos is being on single mode is the most important buff they got. Imo multi damage still needs a significant increase. The best Nerf to bowlers IF they are OP against max 12 defences is to Inc multi damage again, even more. They're sill so weak on multi.

---

You have to be careful with that thinking. If you want to buff a defense to stop one troop it's better to nerf the troop. Multi target inferno towers do a lot of damage to loons right now. Hogs...not as much since they're faster but you have to invest a heal spell over an inferno tower. I think anything that forces a spell is strong enough.
Max IT does 81 dps per beam on multi. Times five is 405 dps. Max archer tower does 134.

My opinion is not that bowitch is neccessarily too strong, but I think the giga tesla was a major nerf to defensive targetting troops 3-star compositions. Either the loons/hogs have to take down the giga tesla when it's popped, which is a HUGE HP to take down while it's being shot at by several defenses included the giga tesla itself which is really strong. And if they are strong enough to get it down, the lightning might finish them off. Otherwise, in a scenario where the defensive targetting troops bypass the town hall because the giga tesla had not popped yet, you might still be in a situation where they have to circle back for clean up, which in my experience has been even worse. the giga tesla assaults wizards, minions, etc. Therefore, you're kind of required to take the giga tesla down with your kill squad if you want to do a 3-star attempt with a defensive targetting troop, but you've already got multiple other things to consider (AQ, CC, Eagle, etc.) so it just makes it harder.

Compare the complexity there with just throwing down bowitch behind a siege. Even if you don't get 3, it'll probably be a high 2.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheGame1

One of those bases was used by onehive in a cwl war as a th10 and defended two th11 dips. Still think it's a poor design? Btw he's just gone to th11 that's why he has the same base.

---

How long ago was that used in cwl? pre-seige machine? Its a simple base to spam being so symmetrical... All those bases are super symmetrical and those types are prime for bowler spam. So to answer your question, yes, I still think it's a poor design.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Superfinch30

Alright I’ll behave.

There’s hardly anything you can do, design-wise, that can virtually guarantee that bo-witch won’t 3* you.

That cannot be said about virtually any other troop comp.

Build anti-lalo base, try and 3 it with lalo, success rate will be very very low.

Same for an anti-hog base.

Build what attempts to be an ‘anti-bowitch’ base, and I guarantee you could succeed in 3 starring it with the troops it’s meant to stop, more regularly than the examples above.

There. Wasn’t sarcastic, I spelled it out.
Just strange that the other person involved in league wars understood exactly what I was complaining about.

---

Alright, I get it, but I feel that it's back to the risk vs reward army comps. Mass bowitch now is similar to gowipe back in the th9 days. Easy to do and just an all rounder kind of comp that works on (safe 2 star) most bases. I feel that it has it's place in the meta. We need a strategy that most players can pick up and use easily, or they'll just be turned off by wars if all are forced to used high skill cap multiphase attacks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheGame1

One of those bases was used by onehive in a cwl war as a th10 and defended two th11 dips. Still think it's a poor design? Btw he's just gone to th11 that's why he has the same base.

---

Yes I do. I watched the video and was very surprised when the th11 attacker failed. Copied the base to one of my members th10s and it performed extremely badly to just about any war comp (Though of course they were all dips). Led me to dismiss it as a fluke that a dip at cwl standard could somehow fail it.

Anyway I do not agree with adapting a base for an earlier th for new th. Bases just don't work that way. The extra buildings can affect pathing and make it easier for troops to pass through the base taking out key structures.

This is really crucial imo. It's why when copying a base off the Internet you can't just haphazardly place the outside trash buildings because they might have some anti-funneling function (e.g. Barracks before storage, never the other way around, because I'd a bowler is in range of a higher hp building it can bounce and destroy the next building as well).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheGame1

And fyi I was replying to you asking what bowitch compositions were 3 starring, so I showed you what we were facing. I never came here complaining they were op, I never came here screaming were running max bases with the latest league designs, I never came here saying our walls were maxed. I'm one of the few to come here and post evidence of what I'm seeing and get shot down by forum Heros. Everyone can 3 star around here and even better everyone defends. I'll hold off judging any attacking strategy from now on until my clan mates have max bases, max walls and built bases that the elite here would be proud of, but I'll be honest that may take a while.

---

My initial reply was more in response to you saying that you'd like your clan pick up this strategy because of how strong it is, and that's what I disagree with. You should still push with learning multiphase attacks because those really are the ones that will help you win wars, truly.

I picked apart those base designs in an atrempt to explain why they aren't as strong/reliable 3 stars as many seem to think they are. I have a member in my war that only ever uses bowitch "spam" and to date, because of his performance, I'm just relegating him to cleaning up 10.5s and 10s, basically no eagle bases. Just last war, he failed to 3 star a max 10.5 (All th11 defences max but no eagle), which was really disappointing because it denied us the perfect war. So I'm sorry if I seemed very against more people trying to pick it up.

Just do a change to those base designs (easy and doesn't need skill if you just copy and adjust) and you'll see much better success as opposed to all picking up that spam bowitch strategy! If you'd like I don't mins letting you come to my clan to copy the 2 that I have. Do note they're not tested to work against edrags though, so I don't know how they actually fare in that scenario.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheGame1

Your quick to rip apart base designs, a lot slower to mention none of those attacks had a siege machine, one of them didn't even take cc troops.

---

The previous posted wanted to see "epic fails" did they not? They didn't mention any conditions to achieving these fails. Plus unlike the pics you provided which were higher quality as they provided more detail, these one don't even show base design so I can't really comment much on that, can I?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Plyc

Alright, I get it, but I feel that it's back to the risk vs reward army comps. Mass bowitch now is similar to gowipe back in the th9 days. Easy to do and just an all rounder kind of comp that works on (safe 2 star) most bases. I feel that it has it's place in the meta. We need a strategy that most players can pick up and use easily, or they'll just be turned off by wars if all are forced to used high skill cap multiphase attacks.


Yes I do. I watched the video and was very surprised when the th11 attacker failed. Copied the base to one of my members th10s and it performed extremely badly to just about any war comp (Though of course they were all dips). Led me to dismiss it as a fluke that a dip at cwl standard could somehow fail it.

Anyway I do not agree with adapting a base for an earlier th for new th. Bases just don't work that way. The extra buildings can affect pathing and make it easier for troops to pass through the base taking out key structures.

This is really crucial imo. It's why when copying a base off the Internet you can't just haphazardly place the outside trash buildings because they might have some anti-funneling function (e.g. Barracks before storage, never the other way around, because I'd a bowler is in range of a higher hp building it can bounce and destroy the next building as well).


My initial reply was more in response to you saying that you'd like your clan pick up this strategy because of how strong it is, and that's what I disagree with. You should still push with learning multiphase attacks because those really are the ones that will help you win wars, truly.

I picked apart those base designs in an atrempt to explain why they aren't as strong/reliable 3 stars as many seem to think they are. I have a member in my war that only ever uses bowitch "spam" and to date, because of his performance, I'm just relegating him to cleaning up 10.5s and 10s, basically no eagle bases. Just last war, he failed to 3 star a max 10.5 (All th11 defences max but no eagle), which was really disappointing because it denied us the perfect war. So I'm sorry if I seemed very against more people trying to pick it up.

Just do a change to those base designs (easy and doesn't need skill if you just copy and adjust) and you'll see much better success as opposed to all picking up that spam bowitch strategy! If you'd like I don't mins letting you come to my clan to copy the 2 that I have. Do note they're not tested to work against edrags though, so I don't know how they actually fare in that scenario.


The previous posted wanted to see "epic fails" did they not? They didn't mention any conditions to achieving these fails. Plus unlike the pics you provided which were higher quality as they provided more detail, these one don't even show base design so I can't really comment much on that, can I?

---

There's a reason I didn't show my base layout. Sure, anyone can come to my clan and see it, but I didn't want to give it away. I will say this:
-It is an internet base
-It is a ring layout
-It is mirrored
Pretty much everything told to avoid in this thread so far. You know what else it has?

My own flair. I take these internet bases and relocate key buildings, large 5x5 buildings or high hp/low hp buildings strategically located to divert troops where I want them to go. Trap certain areas like I've mentioned previously.

So what happens? People look at it and think they know how to hit it. So they haphazardly spam in their bowitch, thinking they'll get their easy 85% 2 star because that's what "always" happens, and are left stunned when they get the results I posted earlier.

From what I observed in my clan, in every war attacks and defenses, BoWitch is still the strongest attack. But they weren't OP. They could be stopped with good base design. Of course this is just my observation and opinion. Anyone could disagree.

Some background, my clan runs a lot of TH12 now and only few TH11, as most move on to TH12 shortly after its released. We are mostly casual, never too serious war clan and never to uptight with clanmates causing us to lose war. To us Clash is not that. I think we have 6-7 TH12 at this point, which 5 of them are maxed TH11 before moving. The other 2, they are just rushed (with weaker walls and defenses), but they are not engineers.

I referred to the top 5 max base as 1-5, and the other to as 6-7 (that's their order in war).
For 1-5, they are not going to be 3 starred with BoWitch spam. Although some very good and well executed BoWitch attack will 3 starred it.
For 6-7, they are 3 starred every single war with BoWitch spam.

So I am gonna focus on 1-5, as we know anything not max is surely getting crushed by BoWitch easily.
BoWitch has the highest chance of 2 starring a max base. However, to some extent a max base could stop that. By max base I mean max TH11 defense and Giga Tesla level 4, as none of use has completed upgraded any other defense in TH12. And base design matters. I use a uncommon wide and carefully thought out war base design which just 3 starred once with BoWitch attack. On average I prevent them from getting higher % than 60%.

And since we are mostly casual, some don't even care to design or update their base. Guess what, some of them still have 2 Inferno Tower in the core, a rectangular base, and you know easily 3 starred. It's not coincidence that they got 3 starred in some consecutive war by BoWitch attack. So whenever we met an opponent with really good and updated base design (that clearly could prevent BoWitch from getting 3 stars), I dropped a hint in the clan chat that this guy war base is really good, somebody should copy it. And whenever they did, we are going to get better in war as a result.

Sure we are casual, but come on, if we are reluctant to improve/update our war bases, surely we can't complain about BoWitch being OP when our war opponent could stop such attack. This game isn't just require us to update ourselves to the newest attacking strategy, but to the newest defensive strategy too.