The Viking Ripple Experiment

10 v 10 war, some of Viking’s unique builds, some of mine. No defenseless, nothing crazy engineered.


16 hours - no match. Still spinning......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ripple1972

10 v 10 war, some of Viking’s unique builds, some of mine. No defenseless, nothing crazy engineered.


16 hours - no match. Still spinning......

---

maybe we should meet blombardo for a beer while we wait?

Sorry guys, but what is the point if you are not going to show both rosters ?

The reason we ask for rosters is people who rarely or never have posted don’t understand how matchmaking works and we try to educate them. There is a current thread about how his 2 th9’s matched th11’s and it’s unfair. When we looked at the bases, not so much.

Thank you for your offer to help, but I’m pretty comfortable that Viking and I are aware of how matchmaking is supposed to work.

The point is SC’s matchmaking algo is now struggling to find matchups in a reasonable time. There have been multiple solutions offered on this forum. SC has taken none and as Tank has said numerous times doesn’t give a ♥♥♥♥ about random wars.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ripple1972

some of Viking’s unique builds, some of mine.

---

What are those unique builds?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colin94

What are those unique builds?

---

Since you asked,

New TH12, selected offense maxed, minimum rest of offense. (2 bases)
new th12, rushed
lower defense weight TH12, eagle not placed
86k max point, max offense th11, no eagle no inferno.
Guessing at weight but th11, 75k, no eagle no inferno, rushed offense with lvl 5 hogs and miners
66k max offense th9
55,54,52 Th8’s all defenses built.

Now you can all educate me.....

Do you want a very unique build?

dm me :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ripple1972

Now you can all educate me.....

---

Since you asked, I guess the difference between th12 and th8 is too big. ;) Would probably be faster with th9/10 instead of th8 at the bottom.

I just posted changes I will be doing and now I see this. Good luck guys I look forward to the updates.

And we matched. 20 hours. It was only after a well known anti engineer, maxer, offered to team up, that SC let us match. Obviously SC can’t let us work together, must keep the separation.

First look, without diving in, and it has to be:
the worst matchup ever. They are dirty filthy engineers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ripple1972

Since you asked,

New TH12, selected offense maxed, minimum rest of offense. (2 bases)
new th12, rushed
lower defense weight TH12, eagle not placed
86k max point, max offense th11, no eagle no inferno.
Guessing at weight but th11, 75k, no eagle no inferno, rushed offense with lvl 5 hogs and miners
66k max offense th9
55,54,52 Th8’s all defenses built.

Now you can all educate me.....

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colin94

Since you asked, I guess the difference between th12 and th8 is too big. ;) Would probably be faster with th9/10 instead of th8 at the bottom.

---

i think if your experiment drops the 8s and goes with max 9 at the very least you may find something and it probably won't be a quick search. th10s instead of 9s may make it faster yet

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ripple1972

The reason we ask for rosters is people who rarely or never have posted don’t understand how matchmaking works and we try to educate them. There is a current thread about how his 2 th9’s matched th11’s and it’s unfair. When we looked at the bases, not so much.

Thank you for your offer to help, but I’m pretty comfortable that Viking and I are aware of how matchmaking is supposed to work.

The point is SC’s matchmaking algo is now struggling to find matchups in a reasonable time. There have been multiple solutions offered on this forum. SC has taken none and as Tank has said numerous times doesn’t give a ♥♥♥♥ about random wars.

---

I think you do not understand my request, I wanted to know YOUR rosters in the experiment. You want to show some proof if you are going to do experiments.

We allready know there are clans out there with rosters that do not match. You do not have to prove that. What needs to be proven is in what case with what circumstances (ie. rosters) you will get a match and with which you won't, or if you do very hard.

That way us layman's can learn something from your experiment.
Or was your post just a notification nobody is supposed to be interested in?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prutser

I think you do not understand my request, I wanted to know YOUR rosters in the experiment. You want to show some proof if you are going to do experiments.

---

Of course they could be making this all up. However viking and ripple have been here a very long time. Id trust they are posting legit even without pics

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prutser

I think you do not understand my request, I wanted to know YOUR rosters in the experiment. You want to show some proof if you are going to do experiments.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrJackrabbit

Of course they could be making this all up. However viking and ripple have been here a very long time. Id trust they are posting legit even without pics

---

Didn’t catch that. Thanks Jack.

And Prutser, you have been around for a while, you seriously thought I was making up a roster? If you thought so, you would know I like to collect nicknames, so just come out and say Ripple you are a liar, that would slot in at number 3.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ripple1972

And we matched. 20 hours. It was only after a well known anti engineer, maxer, offered to team up, that SC let us match. Obviously SC can’t let us work together, must keep the separation.

First look, without diving in, and it has to be:
the worst matchup ever. They are dirty filthy engineers.

---

please show, i'm curious to know how fair supercell's matchmaking was able to make this one

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ripple1972

Didn’t catch that. Thanks Jack.

And Prutser, you have been around for a while, you seriously thought I was making up a roster? If you thought so, you would know I like to collect nicknames, so just come out and say Ripple you are a liar, that would slot in at number 3.

---

We allready know there are clans out there with rosters that do not match. You do not have to prove that. What needs to be proven is in what case with what circumstances (ie. rosters) you will get a match and with which you won't, or if you do very hard.

That way us layman's can learn something from your experiment.
Or was your post just a notification nobody is supposed to be interested in?

Edit: to be clear... I do not think you are lying, I think your experiment needs some clarification to be useful to the rest of us.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AFrostyBlaze

please show, i'm curious to know how fair supercell's matchmaking was able to make this one

---

i will put together a spreadsheet once I can see gold storage, was just estimating.

although, they have more defense, and more firepower at top. They should have enough dips to get our th9 and lower, I don't think they can get them without dipping.

Im curious to the exact break down of the rosters each side. I see you have matched and you say its bad, but how bad?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prutser

We allready know there are clans out there with rosters that do not match. You do not have to prove that. What needs to be proven is in what case with what circumstances (ie. rosters) you will get a match and with which you won't, or if you do very hard.

That way us layman's can learn something from your experiment.
Or was your post just a notification nobody is supposed to be interested in?

---

I will just answer your questions, as I already danced with Ajax, and have no strikes left. As I said before, this was not an attempt to engineer a roster to get an advantage. I spent a good amount of time in a clan that did that, won 98% of our matches, and had an advantage 95% of the time. I understand SC is trying to eliminate that amount of advantage (sorry Major). This was more of a case, like most clans face, where they put (sorry viking) anyone in. Rushed, engineered, maxed. If you are green you are in, they don't think about weights, or builds, they just play. SC can go after the hardcore engineers, but when those decision affect everyone's game play, I think it is a business mistake. I think they are going down that road, and 20 hours waiting for a 10v10 is not good business.

I will post exact weights, offense, etc. but it will be tomorrow.

If you are interested stay tuned, if not enjoy the weekend.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MajorJohnson

Im curious to the exact break down of the rosters each side. I see you have matched and you say its bad, but how bad?

---

I will post tomorrow exact breakdowns.

lol,

1. This forum requires that you wait 60 seconds between posts. Please try again in 75 seconds.

I think we should all meet up at ripples house. I have some beer left over from the world cup match, that I could bring.

EDIT.. Damn. Posted before the warning. Sorry

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joshsgrandad

I think we should all meet up at ripples house. I have some beer left over from the world cup match, that I could bring.

EDIT.. Damn. Posted before the warning. Sorry

---

you are all invited, but we do it call it soccer here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ripple1972

I will just answer your questions, as I already danced with Ajax, and have no strikes left. As I said before, this was not an attempt to engineer a roster to get an advantage. I spent a good amount of time in a clan that did that, won 98% of our matches, and had an advantage 95% of the time. I understand SC is trying to eliminate that amount of advantage (sorry Major). This was more of a case, like most clans face, where they put (sorry viking) anyone in. Rushed, engineered, maxed. If you are green you are in, they don't think about weights, or builds, they just play. SC can go after the hardcore engineers, but when those decision affect everyone's game play, I think it is a business mistake. I think they are going down that road, and 20 hours waiting for a 10v10 is not good business.

I will post exact weights, offense, etc. but it will be tomorrow.

If you are interested stay tuned, if not enjoy the weekend.

---

Yes, SC wants to go after the hardcore engineers but so far everything they have done in my opinion things will slowly kill the game for everyone. Majority of people have engineered accounts to some degree, these accounts become not usable in war and only option is to max them? No one will max them and all these accounts will sit idle, shrinking the search pool. Add in no match because you make the search too tight, and you have the casual gamers leave too because of days without match or being forced opted out all the time.

Welcome to the new clash of clans, where everyone has the same 10 internet bases lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MajorJohnson

Yes, SC wants to go after the hardcore engineers but so far everything they have done in my opinion things will slowly kill the game for everyone. Majority of people have engineered accounts to some degree, these accounts become not usable in war and only option is to max them? No one will max them and all these accounts will sit idle, shrinking the search pool. Add in no match because you make the search too tight, and you have the casual gamers leave too because of days without match or being forced opted out all the time.

Welcome to the new clash of clans, where everyone has the same 10 internet bases lol

---

hmm...matchmaking has been faster and faster as of late, perhaps SC adjusted something or with more th12s by the day it is improving things.

our first few matches took 6 hours, 8 hours, 12 hours but now our last 3 were much quicker. finally got one in under an hour again

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AFrostyBlaze

hmm...matchmaking has been faster and faster as of late, perhaps SC adjusted something or with more th12s by the day it is improving things.

our first few matches took 6 hours, 8 hours, 12 hours but now our last 3 were much quicker. finally got one in under an hour again

---

One of the clans Im in just found a very fast match despite some fairly lopsided bases, maybe something has changed, i certainly hope so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AFrostyBlaze

hmm...matchmaking has been faster and faster as of late, perhaps SC adjusted something or with more th12s by the day it is improving things.

our first few matches took 6 hours, 8 hours, 12 hours but now our last 3 were much quicker. finally got one in under an hour again

---

We got our current match in about an hour (and a good match too) but my point was that it's bad business to just exclude a wide range of people from war. Maybe they relaxed the search a bit? Who knows.

I do know that anyone that has gone to TH12 early has ruined their account for the next 3 years.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MajorJohnson

We got our current match in about an hour (and a good match too) but my point was that it's bad business to just exclude a wide range of people from war. Maybe they relaxed the search a bit? Who knows.

I do know that anyone that has gone to TH12 early has ruined their account for the next 3 years.

---

Have 5 of my 6 th12 rushed we shall see

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MajorJohnson

We got our current match in about an hour (and a good match too) but my point was that it's bad business to just exclude a wide range of people from war. Maybe they relaxed the search a bit? Who knows.

I do know that anyone that has gone to TH12 early has ruined their account for the next 3 years.

---

I do not think its the majority of people that does not find a quick match, nor do I think engineering has anything to do with it.
Not the majority otherwise this forum would LIT UP with lots more posts. Not only engineering cause that starcast99 didnt really have a engineered clan.

I think the long war searches are only happening if you are using a very uncommon roster. Now the question is, is that only because of defenses or also maybe offenses?

I also think TH12 might have something to do with it. Lots of clans are upgrading, so less clans available for matches. Which makes the uncommon roster even more uncommon.



Edit: got name wrong

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrJackrabbit

Have 5 of my 6 th12 rushed we shall see

---

Good luck putting them in war

I would genuinely like to see what kind of match you would get but I doubt it would be good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrJackrabbit

Have 5 of my 6 th12 rushed we shall see

---

Do you really expect a good result? I do not know, but common sense would tell me that you will not get a match or a good one. I am curious to see the match you get, offense and defense levels would be nice to see.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prutser

I do not think its the majority of people that does not find a quick match, nor do I think engineering has anything to do with it.
Not the majority otherwise this forum would LIT UP with lots more posts. Not only engineering cause that starcast99 didnt really have a engineered clan.

I think the long war searches are only happening if you are using a very uncommon roster. Now the question is, is that only because of defenses or also maybe offenses?

I also think TH12 might have something to do with it. Lots of clans are upgrading, so less clans available for matches. Which makes the uncommon roster even more uncommon.



Edit: got name wrong

---

Still have to agree with ripple on this one about long searches being a severe detriment to the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ripple1972

Since you asked,

New TH12, selected offense maxed, minimum rest of offense. (2 bases)
new th12, rushed
lower defense weight TH12, eagle not placed
86k max point, max offense th11, no eagle no inferno.
Guessing at weight but th11, 75k, no eagle no inferno, rushed offense with lvl 5 hogs and miners
66k max offense th9
55,54,52 Th8’s all defenses built.

Now you can all educate me.....

---

It was my understanding that the eagle must be placed on the home village, not just purchased, before advancing to TH12. It is also my understanding that when the eagle is placed on the home village and not on the war base it still is included in war weight calculation. Please correct me when I am wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PapaTroll

It was my understanding that the eagle must be placed on the home village, not just purchased, before advancing to TH12. It is also my understanding that when the eagle is placed on the home village and not on the war base it still is included in war weight calculation. Please correct me when I am wrong.

---

The eagle is not placed on home base and it is a TH12.

As as far as included in war weight calculation, I think that has been said but I have not seen proof. Still in prep, so cannot check gold storage. I will update tomorrow, with th, heroes, gold storage, and offense for both sides.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ripple1972

The eagle is not placed on home base and it is a TH12.

As as far as included in war weight calculation, I think that has been said but I have not seen proof. Still in prep, so cannot check gold storage. I will update tomorrow, with th, heroes, gold storage, and offense for both sides.

---

Sorry to be "the difficult one" again, but
a) why do you not believe Darian when he has confirmed that eagle while not placed is still counted ?
(Darian is an SC employee after all, why would he lie?)

and b) who is to say that gold storage's are still (emphasis on still) the way to check weights for defenses?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ripple1972

The eagle is not placed on home base and it is a TH12.

As as far as included in war weight calculation, I think that has been said but I have not seen proof. Still in prep, so cannot check gold storage. I will update tomorrow, with th, heroes, gold storage, and offense for both sides.

---

Are you on a cool down timer? You can check WW with a friendly challenge scout.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prutser

Sorry to be "the difficult one" again, but
a) why do you not believe Darian when he has confirmed that eagle while not placed is still counted ?
(Darian is an SC employee after all, why would he lie?)

and b) who is to say that gold storage's are still (emphasis on still) the way to check weights for defenses?

---

a:) If you believe that a non-placed building has weight. That would imply that SC, a company who for 2 years couldn't fix engineering through their own mm algo, then released TH12 and their first attempt at fixing the engineering was to mandate all buildings being built, and not just re-weighing offense and defense correctly, would somehow anticipate the buy but don't place method and correct for it. It requires you to believe that overnight, somehow SC got smarter. I am not saying it can't happen, but I tend to look for simple solutions.

b:) There is good argument either way here. But if you believe Darian, you have to believe that gold storage doesn't matter. Otherwise, they would have adjusted bases weights and where they sit on war maps.

I am not sure on either, and since this neither can be proved, I am basing my thoughts on past performance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ripple1972

a:) If you believe that a non-placed building has weight. That would imply that SC, a company who for 2 years couldn't fix engineering through their own mm algo, then released TH12 and their first attempt at fixing the engineering was to mandate all buildings being built, and not just re-weighing offense and defense correctly, would somehow anticipate the buy but don't place method and correct for it. It requires you to believe that overnight, somehow SC got smarter. I am not saying it can't happen, but I tend to look for simple solutions.

b:) There is good argument either way here. But if you believe Darian, you have to believe that gold storage doesn't matter. Otherwise, they would have adjusted bases weights and where they sit on war maps.

I am not sure on either, and since this neither can be proved, I am basing my thoughts on past performance.

---

The unplaced but bought eagle is not represented in the gold weight, and I dont have a large enough sample size to know If it is effecting matches, there has been some evidence Iether way.

I myself am pretty convinced that gold weights are no longer the full storey, Theres a thread on ir If Anyone is interested, basically we now kinda know (agree we dont know for sure) supercell has added a phantom weight server side, Its it seamed very likely they do other checked server side like number of wardens, so If they have weights and other checks server side why not all weights server side, or server side modifyers. Makes me sense to me, forum heavyweights onyx and skrags also believe this, but forum heavyweights sservis, tank, and few others still think gold is where Its at.

Then unplaced will remain a mystery. If its phantom weight, it will not show in gold. If its simply a win bonus, then unplaced items will not be included. Take a seat, bride on the left, and groom on the right.

Just as an edit.. Since the jury is out, even if the eagle was dropped, and the change to gold occurred, which it will. Then this could simply be explained away by saying the bonus increased due to a harder target. It is an interesting, but totally pointless topic, as it would take SC confirmation to bring to a conclusion.

The gold only goes up if you place buildings. If you have an unplaced building why would the gold go up?

Your position on the map and your gold total will not and can not change until you place the building in question. This is because the difficulty of your base would not increase.

I fully believe darian when he says that they made a change to accommodate unplaced buildings into your war weight. I think it would be foolish not to.

Two things can be true at once, your war weight has gone up and your gold total stayed the the same.

I love this thread. Let’s experiment! Instantly... Where’s the proof?!

Have a little patience. These are grizzled forum vets having a little fun. Sit back and enjoy the info, it will come when it’s available.

interested to see what the numbers look like when you guys have time. If you are feeling froggy, the offensive numbers from cocp.it would be fun to see also.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ripple1972

And we matched. 20 hours. It was only after a well known anti engineer, maxer, offered to team up, that SC let us match. Obviously SC can’t let us work together, must keep the separation.

First look, without diving in, and it has to be:
the worst matchup ever. They are dirty filthy engineers.

---

The fact of 10v10 with casual build style match at 20hours is, I am agree with Major here total detriment to the game, it will exclude a lot of bases, shrinking player bases

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by samratulangi

The fact of 10v10 with casual build style match at 20hours is, I am agree with Major here total detriment to the game, it will exclude a lot of bases, shrinking player bases

---

Cant b that much of a detriment n cant b that many bases contrary to pro engineers belief. Look at top grossing charts. 6+ yrs n counting. Looks like sc hit a homer wit this update. Numbers don't lie. Shrug. Time to adjust or quit? Sorry if that sounded harsh but its simply reality

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kimchilove

Cant b that much of a detriment n cant b that many bases contrary to pro engineers belief. Look at top grossing charts. 6+ yrs n counting. Looks like sc hit a homer wit this update. Numbers don't lie. Shrug. Time to adjust or quit? Sorry if that sounded harsh but its simply reality

---

this happens after every clash update. give it 3 months and we shall see the truth

I understand the plight of some who chose to engineer btw bc ultimately it was sc who perpetuated this problem by allowing it to go on too long but fact of matter is that the writing was on wall as to what would happen (more coming btw so brace urselves). Darian forewarned pf whats to come n sc gave tons of games n events to help progress or fix ur bases in a cheap way. Those who took advantage of it r content, those who didnt r suffering. At what point will u continue to blame sc n at what point do u blame ur stubbornness? The question of whether it is fair or not is moot. Its reality so adapt, adjust, or quit. Not trying to sound harsh! Sorry if it does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AFrostyBlaze

this happens after every clash update. give it 3 months and we shall see the truth

---

6+ yrs. Case closed no?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kimchilove

6+ yrs. Case closed no?

---

Currenty yes, th12 update but look not only snapshot, look on long term chart, COC has been out of top 20 many months before that, just wait 6-12 months from now

https://www.reuters.com/article/supe...-idUSL8N1Q43HO

in the middle "The company did not disclose sales figures for its titles, but Paananen said the revenue drop was most significant for Clash of Clans."

I think the title of the thread sets out what Ripple/Viking are trying to do. It's an experiment!

As 23skidoo says above, these guys are not fresh spawn noobs or Youtubers (:rolleyes:). Let them be, have their fun, and if they are able to offer educational incremental conclusions, as to where MM is in June 2018, then I'm all for it!

Good luck!:thumbsup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skrags

I think the title of the thread sets out what Ripple/Viking are trying to do. It's an experiment!

As 23skidoo says above, these guys are not fresh spawn noobs or Youtubers (:rolleyes:). Let them be, have their fun, and if they are able to offer educational incremental conclusions, as to where MM is in June 2018, then I'm all for it!

Good luck!:thumbsup:

---

These guys have repeatedly proclaimed to be engineers and pro-engineering. What is the educational incremental conclusion worth if not backed up by solid proof? Sure it is fun, but believing posters just because of their post count is not what I would do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kimchilove

I understand the plight of some who chose to engineer btw bc ultimately it was sc who perpetuated this problem by allowing it to go on too long but fact of matter is that the writing was on wall as to what would happen (more coming btw so brace urselves). Darian forewarned pf whats to come n sc gave tons of games n events to help progress or fix ur bases in a cheap way. Those who took advantage of it r content, those who didnt r suffering. At what point will u continue to blame sc n at what point do u blame ur stubbornness? The question of whether it is fair or not is moot. Its reality so adapt, adjust, or quit. Not trying to sound harsh! Sorry if it does.

---

I would say the engineers are the most intelligent players, this is a strategy game and part of that is being able to build bases that will give you an advantage. Those who seek an advantage in war will find it regardless of the change but casual players being punished with long search will just quit which is a detriment to everyone.

I like how you mention being able to fix bases in a cheap way though when in reality it can take years and I personally hate the adapt or quit mantra, if many people quit then there is no game for anyone.

Clash on

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freshspown

These guys have repeatedly proclaimed to be engineers and pro-engineering. What is the educational incremental conclusion worth if not backed up by solid proof? Sure it is fun, but believing posters just because of their post count is not what I would do.

---

Oh, I know they're engineers, and yes post count is not an indication of knowledge. Although I'm personally a maxer, I'm still interested in any MM observations, opinions and discussion.
I would be extremely critical of any player offering any kind of 'solid proof' , so subjectivity is all we have.

I really don't see any problem with these guys doing an experiment, and commenting about it.:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MajorJohnson

I would say the engineers are the most intelligent players

---

Wow, Just wow.

I thought I'd seen it all when it comes to engineer vs maxer 'This IS the way to play the game if you don't agree you are wrong' mentality but that tops the list.

It's a way you chose to play the game nothing else, it's more to do whether you want a challenge or a win streak.

If engineers were that smart they would have seen the change coming and adapted accordingly, rather than moaning they can't find a match.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MajorJohnson

Yes, SC wants to go after the hardcore engineers but so far everything they have done in my opinion things will slowly kill the game for everyone.

---

I'm not convinced this is the case Major. Just trying to play devils advocate here, but imo SC are/have been trying to dilute the effectiveness of the 'cut and paste' offensively lopsided casual engineers, as these are the vast majority, and it's this majority that demotivates the average player from wanting to participate in wars... it's just a numbers game.

Are SC going after the Clan from the red planet? - No, and they are as hardcore as you can get.
The real hardcore engineers will try to adapt as they see fit based upon their own current perceptions of MM and weight.

You can't compare 'hardcore engineers' with the 'Majority of people have engineered accounts to some degree'. It's like comparing apples and oranges.

The vast majority of players with an 'engineered account to some degree' would look at you blankly, if you asked them to give you details of offensive weight!:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MajorJohnson

I would say the engineers are the most intelligent players, this is a strategy game and part of that is being able to build bases that will give you an advantage. Those who seek an advantage in war will find it regardless of the change but casual players being punished with long search will just quit which is a detriment to everyone.

---

Mmm, I would say *some* engineers are most definitely knowledgable players. Most are just copying what others do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skrags

I really don't see any problem with these guys doing an experiment, and commenting about it.:)

---

Me neither, so there you go :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MajorJohnson

I would say the engineers are the most intelligent players, this is a strategy game and part of that is being able to build bases that will give you an advantage. Those who seek an advantage in war will find it regardless of the change but casual players being punished with long search will just quit which is a detriment to everyone.

I like how you mention being able to fix bases in a cheap way though when in reality it can take years and I personally hate the adapt or quit mantra, if many people quit then there is no game for anyone.

Clash on

---

Rebuttal time. Plz dont get offended but u said some silly things. "Those who seek an advantage in war will find it regardless of the change". Pardon me but guess u r not an engineer hence u not being the "most" intelligent bc isnt it u who is complaining of the changes? Things that make u go hmmm. Shrug

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kimchilove

Rebuttal time. Plz dont get offended but u said some silly things. "Those who seek an advantage in war will find it regardless of the change". Pardon me but guess u r not an engineer hence u not being the "most" intelligent bc isnt it u who is complaining of the changes? Things that make u go hmmm. Shrug

---

I think complaining about the change is just normal, engineer or rusher or maxer can do it, the engineer will just learn, adapt or quit, if no more fun doing it, isnt it, since this is a game, and we r looking for fun here

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by samratulangi

Currenty yes, th12 update but look not only snapshot, look on long term chart, COC has been out of top 20 many months before that, just wait 6-12 months from now

https://www.reuters.com/article/supe...-idUSL8N1Q43HO

in the middle "The company did not disclose sales figures for its titles, but Paananen said the revenue drop was most significant for Clash of Clans."

---

I dont look at charts constantly tbh but I will guess if it did fall out of top 20 it isnt too far down. Think bout how many apps r out there yet clash been in top charts for 6+ yrs no? Granted it dropped from its peak but do u truly believe they still not making tons of money? Its been acknowledged clash is one of the most successful apps of all time n despite the doomsayers clash isn't going anywhere anytime soon. How many times have we heard that clash is going to die? Its been said for yrs now yet they still here strong. Its time for engineers to adapt n adjust instead of being stubborn. I prefer if they didnt quit bc I wouldnt want any to quit but if they do, o well life goes on n biz as usual. Game will not die if engineers quit despite claims it will. No one truly knows the number of engineers out there so to make a claim most players engineer is a bit silly no? Im sure quite a few do but think pro engineers r overestimating it if u look at overall number of players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freshspown

Mmm, I would say *some* engineers are most definitely knowledgable players. Most are just copying what others do.

---

I’ve said this for years now. Most of these guys are just following the leader. All while insulting the intelligence of those players playing a different style. Funny thing is, those who have been degraded to “less than intelligent” are having little to no problems finding a match right now.

The entire argument that engineers will quit is flawed imo also. Let’s stop and think for a second. Do any of you guys see GM quitting and giving up their #1 winning streak? Or do you see them adapting and continuing on? Let’s just say, they haven’t stopped yet, after all the changes match making has seen the last few years, yep they’re still trudging on.

Imo, the only ones that are going to quit are the wanna be engineers. They’ll complain and complain until they realize the train has left the station and isn’t returning. Those guys, yeah, they’ll quit because they have no knowledge of what they’re actually doing. They’ve just mimicked the actions of other people without understanding the ramifications of what they’re actually doing and have did to their clans and accounts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MajorJohnson

I would say the engineers are the most intelligent players, this is a strategy game and part of that is being able to build bases that will give you an advantage. Those who seek an advantage in war will find it regardless of the change but casual players being punished with long search will just quit which is a detriment to everyone.

I like how you mention being able to fix bases in a cheap way though when in reality it can take years and I personally hate the adapt or quit mantra, if many people quit then there is no game for anyone.

Clash on

---

I try to be pretty neutral on here and try to see both sides but I have to add my 2 cents worth. Perhaps it was the comment about intelligence that caught my attention.

As you say above "but casual player being punished with long search will just quit which is a detriment to everyone." Where was this concern when casual players were being punished with inequitable matches and quit to the detriment of everyone?

!00% agreed on the adapt or quit mantra, but I didn't see a whole lot of folks from the optimizer side calling out anyone who said such foolishness up until now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xXXCHRISXXx

The entire argument that engineers will quit is flawed imo also. Let’s stop and think for a second. Do any of you guys see GM quitting and giving up their #1 winning streak? Or do you see them adapting and continuing on? Let’s just say, they haven’t stopped yet, after all the changes match making has seen the last few years, yep they’re still trudging on.

Imo, the only ones that are going to quit are the wanna be engineers. They’ll complain and complain until they realize the train has left the station and isn’t returning. Those guys, yeah, they’ll quit because they have no knowledge of what they’re actually doing. They’ve just mimicked the actions of other people without understanding the ramifications of what they’re actually doing and have did to their clans and accounts.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kimchilove

I dont look at charts constantly tbh but I will guess if it did fall out of top 20 it isnt too far down. Think bout how many apps r out there yet clash been in top charts for 6+ yrs no? Granted it dropped from its peak but do u truly believe they still not making tons of money? Its been acknowledged clash is one of the most successful apps of all time n despite the doomsayers clash isn't going anywhere anytime soon. How many times have we heard that clash is going to die? Its been said for yrs now yet they still here strong. Its time for engineers to adapt n adjust instead of being stubborn. I prefer if they didnt quit bc I wouldnt want any to quit but if they do, o well life goes on n biz as usual. Game will not die if engineers quit despite claims it will. No one truly knows the number of engineers out there so to make a claim most players engineer is a bit silly no? Im sure quite a few do but think pro engineers r overestimating it if u look at overall number of players.

---

ok maybe not exatcly quiit, but with build all policy, the multi accts player will definitely play less accts, since it is not really exiting to have a lot of copy bases, today I already played much less, and farm less, probably only 6 out of 30+ accts, and in this 6 acct i farm less, not interesting to have more then 1 maxed th12.

No doubt that COC has been one of the greatest mobile game for he last 6 years, but time change, many current mobile game embed a lot of new aspect of mobile device, such Location in Pokemon go, and some newer games include more sensor of the devices to make sure we have much richer gaming experience.

COC will be difficult to recruit new player if they keep doing current game play, and i think they understand that very well. So people restarting new accts should be big revenue source for them. do u find any of your friend picking up coc now? Most of them playd other game, only us the old player are still hanging here, and if the old player play less bases, how can ghey grow?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tosti111

I try to be pretty neutral on here and try to see both sides but I have to add my 2 cents worth. Perhaps it was the comment about intelligence that caught my attention.

As you say above "but casual player being punished with long search will just quit which is a detriment to everyone." Where was this concern when casual players were being punished with inequitable matches and quit to the detriment of everyone?

!00% agreed on the adapt or quit mantra, but I didn't see a whole lot of folks from the optimizer side calling out anyone who said such foolishness up until now.

---

The casual players lose more than they win any way. Doesn't matter if it is engineers or maxers. Someone has to make up the lose more than they win group. Cannot have everyone winning more than they lose. Math.
If SC were smart, a big if, they would figure out how to match the casuals with the cut and paste engineers and give the cut and past a disadvantage.

Less players is a detriment regardless of which side they are on. SC's actions, mandated builds, long match times, or bad matches, just means less people in the pool.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by samratulangi

ok maybe not exatcly quiit, but with build all policy, the multi accts player will definitely play less accts, since it is not really exiting to have a lot of copy bases, today I already played much less, and farm less, probably only 6 out of 30+ accts, and in this 6 acct i farm less, not interesting to have more then 1 maxed th12

---

100% agree. If there are no clans games, I will probably not farm attack at all on my th11 or th9.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by samratulangi

ok maybe not exatcly quiit, but with build all policy, the multi accts player will definitely play less accts, since it is not really exiting to have a lot of copy bases, today I already played much less, and farm less, probably only 6 out of 30+ accts, and in this 6 acct i farm less, not interesting to have more then 1 maxed th12

---

Sorry to hear u playing less n thats ur right n prerogative to do so but did u think darian was bluffing when he said the advantages engineers get will b greatly affected? Do u not agree sc gave us tons of games n events for free to help progress or fix ur bases for free?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ripple1972

The casual players lose more than they win any way. Doesn't matter if it is engineers or maxers. Someone has to make up the lose more than they win group. Cannot have everyone winning more than they lose. Math.
If SC were smart, a big if, they would figure out how to match the casuals with the cut and paste engineers and give the cut and past a disadvantage.

Less players is a detriment regardless of which side they are on. SC's actions, mandated builds, long match times, or bad matches, just means less people in the pool.

---

I think I may not have been clear enough. I did not say anything about win %. I spoke entirely about match inequality which is an entirely different animal. Folks (for the most part) are not driven to quit based on win/loss ratio alone. A level playing field holds out hope for them, they can improve their troops, or their bases or become better attackers. They do however, quit when they game is not close to equity from the start of the spin.

The MM certainly does play a part and I too would like it to work better, perhaps not quite the same way you would desire but with an equitable outcome for everyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kimchilove

Sorry to hear u playing less n thats ur right n prerogative to do so but did u think darian was bluffing when he said the advantages engineers get will b greatly affected? Do u not agree sc gave us tons of games n events for free to help progress or fix ur bases for free?

---

My bases does not need a fix, i got all built differently, all type of build just name it, i will keep it that way, even if they have to stay at th11, i may have 1 or 2 to be th12 but that also if i can find a different th12 built, not just maxing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ripple1972

The casual players lose more than they win any way. Doesn't matter if it is engineers or maxers. Someone has to make up the lose more than they win group. Cannot have everyone winning more than they lose. Math.
If SC were smart, a big if, they would figure out how to match the casuals with the cut and paste engineers and give the cut and past a disadvantage.

Less players is a detriment regardless of which side they are on. SC's actions, mandated builds, long match times, or bad matches, just means less people in the pool.

---

I like u rip. U know that but I strongly disagree wit u here. Do u really believe if cut n paste engineers r given a distinct disadvantage they will continue to build their bases in a engineering way? We will hear TONS of complaints n more threats of quitting no? Ur suggestion surprisingly isnt too smart. Usually u spot on but not this time imo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kimchilove

I like u rip. U know that but I strongly disagree wit u here. Do u really believe if cut n paste engineers r given a distinct disadvantage they will continue to build their bases in a engineering way? We will hear TONS of complaints n more threats of quitting no? Ur suggestion surprisingly isnt too smart. Usually u spot on but not this time imo.

---

copy paste engineers has been at disadvantage since august last year, even more after feb this year, the new mm algorithm has break all of them

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by samratulangi

copy paste engineers has been at disadvantage since august last year, even more after feb this year, the new mm algorithm has break all of them

---

And you base this on.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freshspown

And you base this on.....

---

look at clashofstat and cocp.it, most of triple digit ws has been broken.

many clan has been reported that offense weigth more and more, so having low def hih offense, becoming more a liability, of course they wont understand that if they just looking at the mirror.

if u read more posts here by many other experience forumer, especially Some of the most objective gasp like onyx, skrag and others, u will see, even the maxer league style clan starting to realize that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tosti111

I think I may not have been clear enough. I did not say anything about win %. I spoke entirely about match inequality which is an entirely different animal. Folks (for the most part) are not driven to quit based on win/loss ratio alone. A level playing field holds out hope for them, they can improve their troops, or their bases or become better attackers. They do however, quit when they game is not close to equity from the start of the spin.

The MM certainly does play a part and I too would like it to work better, perhaps not quite the same way you would desire but with an equitable outcome for everyone.

---

Very possible. But I also think there is a fairly large subset, that just spins and cannot evaluate equitable from apples. They just spin, match, attack and move on. They don't have a plan, they just war. No clue about meta, people leave before they attack, people hit up, down wherever they want.

Take a break from your current clan, go to global, join whoever is spinning next and let me know the results.

Before, my experiment, I had 25-30% wins because they didn't attack, and 20% didn't fill clan castles. The way the forum participants approach this game is light years from the average pick up and play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kimchilove

I like u rip. U know that but I strongly disagree wit u here. Do u really believe if cut n paste engineers r given a distinct disadvantage they will continue to build their bases in a engineering way? We will hear TONS of complaints n more threats of quitting no? Ur suggestion surprisingly isnt too smart. Usually u spot on but not this time imo.

---

I believe that the cut and paste have done more to harm the game than the GM, B@war level, or even Tank/Major's type of engineering. If you are semi serious and match against an engineered clan and the only way they win is double dip, it causes more issues than if you match a well engineered clan (Tank, Major style) and lose because they have more th11 hits, but a still can attack.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ripple1972

Very possible. But I also think there is a fairly large subset, that just spins and cannot evaluate equitable from apples. They just spin, match, attack and move on. They don't have a plan, they just war. No clue about meta, people leave before they attack, people hit up, down wherever they want.

Take a break from your current clan, go to global, join whoever is spinning next and let me know the results.

Before, my experiment, I had 25-30% wins because they didn't attack, and 20% didn't fill clan castles. The way the forum participants approach this game is light years from the average pick up and play.

---

Complete agreement that most folks do not understand the difference between a reasonably even matchup versus a perceived mismatch, no need for me to go check that out thanks. That being said, perception is reality and let's be honest, the cut and paste crowd have been the most visible example of how not to do things. But we are deviating from my original response, namely that it seems a bit odd that folks are concerned about casual players all of a sudden when they were largely ignored and told to adapt or quit whenever they raised their voices in the past. If it wasn't a concern before, what has changed to make it a concern now? All I can see that has changed dramatically is that some forms of engineering are being targeted and now the justification seems to have widened in scope to include the previously unimportant.

I am concerned for anyone if it suits my narrative.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ripple1972

Very possible. But I also think there is a fairly large subset, that just spins and cannot evaluate equitable from apples. They just spin, match, attack and move on. They don't have a plan, they just war. No clue about meta, people leave before they attack, people hit up, down wherever they want.

Take a break from your current clan, go to global, join whoever is spinning next and let me know the results.

Before, my experiment, I had 25-30% wins because they didn't attack, and 20% didn't fill clan castles. The way the forum participants approach this game is light years from the average pick up and play.

---

weird, that must be a lower weight war thing.

it's probably been over 2 years since we've faced a clan that didn't attack and or fill their clan castles (not counting occasional FWA clans).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ripple1972

I am concerned for anyone if it suits my narrative.

---

Thanks for the honesty, I have found it rare on here overall and it's nice to see.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AFrostyBlaze

weird, that must be a lower weight war thing.

it's probably been over 2 years since we've faced a clan that didn't attack and or fill their clan castles (not counting occasional FWA clans).

---

Yes, that was in the wars when my th11 couldn’t match, so running, 9,8,7.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by samratulangi

The fact of 10v10 with casual build style match at 20hours is, I am agree with Major here total detriment to the game, it will exclude a lot of bases, shrinking player bases

---

My clan is finally warring again after Supercell’s recent attempt to curb engineering. Lots of people got frustrated with engineers in war and stopped warring, lots more than the few engineers who cry on these forums.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JtB

My clan is finally warring again after Supercell’s recent attempt to curb engineering. Lots of people got frustrated with engineers in war and stopped warring, lots more than the few engineers who cry on these forums.

---

My standard answer to these posts:

It is hard to see the engineer’s tears in the oceans that anti engineers have cried for 2+ years.

Glad and to see you are warring again.

Interesting anecdotal experiment so thanks for sharing it, but there is no data to support all these assertions about multi-account engineers abandoning the game. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that they aren't, just that the observations across a the clans (again unknown number) of engineers posting here don't prove anything for anyone but you.

As far as the matchups, weird lineups have been suffering for quite a while AFAIK so wouldn't including TH12's (regardless of unplaced / gold accuracy) and therefore expanding the TH spread exacerbate the problem?

Now this is where I agree with Ripple - the problem is the MMA. As the game has grown, the variables / weights seem to have become complicated beyond SC's ability to address the root cause.

Numbers: Not doing Cocp for offense, life interferes with fun. Weight is gold store

TH	BK	Aq	Warden	Weight	Offense		TH	BK	AQ	Warden	Weight	Offense
12	20	25	15	110	Max Miner		12	45	45	20	114	th11
12	17	21	15	110	Max Miner		12	32	36	20	114	th11
12	15	13	8	107	Miners5		12	40	40	20	113	th11
12	22	32	20	102	TH11		10	40	40		89	th10
11	50	50	20	86	Max th11		11	14	18	6	89	th10
11	14	14	8	73	Miners5		10	11	16		68	th9
9	30	30		66	Max th9		9	11	13		59	th8
8	10			52			8	10			53
8	6			46			8	2			40
8	5			44			7	4			39
Totals	189	185	86	796				209	208	66	778

Which is which?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KOAE

Which is which?

---

sorry, Ripple/Viking on the left (4 th12's). they are on the right (3 th12's).

Interesting additional point. The max offense th11 recommended target is their 113 weight base (3rd base). I would guess that is closer than the 89K, th10. When Viking shows, he can check recommended targets for his max miner as only th11 attack targets.

We easily should get to 27. I probably have the best offense, but have used a siege machine in 5 FC's only. It will be interesting how they do, against lower defense higher weight th12's.

One of my clan where we have engineered roster seems to get matches within 30mins.Earlier it used to take 2-3hrs to find a match.
Our genral roster breakdown is:
6-7 Th12s(was maxed 11s before update)
1-210.5s with maxed heros with selected troops maxed
5-6 9.11s(maxed points defense no eagle or inferno and almost maxed heros and selected troops)
1-2 9.5s
some 8.5s for numbers if needed.
We are fairly matched with everytime and managed to win 9 of the last 10 wars.

Thanks; how is the base design quality?

It doesn't look good for the home team!

Thanks again for sharing...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rak2180

One of my clan where we have engineered roster seems to get a matches within 30mins.Earlier it used to take 2-3hrs to find a match.
Our genral roster breakdown is:
6-7 Th12s(was maxed 11s before update)
1-210.5s with maxed heros with selected troops maxed
5-6 9.11s(maxed points defense no eagle or inferno and almost maxed heros and selected troops)
1-2 9.5s
some 8.5s for numbers if needed.
We are fairly matched with everytime and managed to me 9 of the last 10 wars.

---

This supports what I have been saying - the more balanced TH12's that you have in your roster, the less the impact of engineering.

I believe the recommended target offense weight calculation is flawed. I understand it is the best approach we have but for a very long time as a fully maxed TH11 my recommended target was always a mid level TH11. Now as a Th12 with max miners, 50/57/20 my recommended target is max TH11 110k weight. It has never made sense to me but maybe someone from the illegent group of players can help me out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KOAE

Thanks; how is the base design quality?

It doesn't look good for the home team!

Thanks again for sharing...

---

They are running bases I have seen before. Our bases are a combo of troll, eyes closed placement and perfection. We will get a couple scouts on the top, at least cc, and air mines. This will come down to how good their top are. They control their own destiny more than we do.

I don't think it is an unfair match, rushed bases almost always are disadvantaged and Viking and I both figured this would be the result. According to cocp they have been inconsistent. A couple 29/30, and a couple where they either missed a lot or didn't show.
I am using my mind powers to see if I can impact the results, but never took the advanced GM course.

I was more curious as to what we would see, and how long than the result.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Easyluck

I believe the recommended target offense weight calculation is flawed. I understand it is the best approach we have but for a very long time as a fully maxed TH11 my recommended target was always a mid level TH11. Now as a Th12 with max miners, 50/57/20 my recommended target is max TH11 110k weight. It has never made sense to me but maybe someone from the illegent group of players can help me out.

---

I agree Easy, especially when there is a huge gap 113 to 89. Midpoint is 101, mid th11. I used to get 104-105-106 previously as target. So, 113 is closer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheGame1

Wow, Just wow.

I thought I'd seen it all when it comes to engineer vs maxer 'This IS the way to play the game if you don't agree you are wrong' mentality but that tops the list.

It's a way you chose to play the game nothing else, it's more to do whether you want a challenge or a win streak.

If engineers were that smart they would have seen the change coming and adapted accordingly, rather than moaning they can't find a match.

---

I think maybe you misunderstood me,

This is a strategy game, those who create the most strategic bases and design win, therefore the players that are the best at it are also the brightest.

For me, I knew TH12 was coming and my main base was ready months before it dropped. All I had to do was drop an eagle and just a couple small stuff since my walls were already maxed. I think it's been about 40 wars since my base has been 3 starred by max heroes and max troops, my main base is beautiful.

Some of our other high 11s and 12s aren't defending as well but you can really only progress so fast, even if you knew TH12 was coming months in advance. Once it was announced, you have to make the choice of jumping to TH11 before you are forced to drop all defenses, even very heavy ones with no option of holding off and working on other stuff.

With long search and no war, If you have other accounts, some you may only progress through war loot so no war, base falls behind further :(

Oh yeah, let's not forget about farming becoming harder and those defenseless bases with overflowing loot will no longer be those gems to find in multiplayer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MajorJohnson

I think maybe you misunderstood me,

This is a strategy game, those who create the most strategic bases and design win, therefore the players that are the best at it are also the brightest.

For me, I knew TH12 was coming and my main base was ready months before it dropped. All I had to do was drop an eagle and just a couple small stuff since my walls were already maxed. I think it's been about 40 wars since my base has been 3 starred by max heroes and max troops, my main base is beautiful.

Some of our other high 11s and 12s aren't defending as well but you can really only progress so fast, even if you knew TH12 was coming months in advance. Once it was announced, you have to make the choice of jumping to TH11 before you are forced to drop all defenses, even very heavy ones with no option of holding off and working on other stuff.

With long search and no war, If you have other accounts, some you may only progress through war loot so no war, base falls behind further :(

Oh yeah, let's not forget about farming becoming harder and those defenseless bases with overflowing loot will no longer be those gems to find in multiplayer.

---

Just an observation. I am not interested in the "brighter build" debates. But, if your base is holding well, and the other similar size bases are struggling.. Why don't your clan make use of the "copy base" option, that is now available. Can simply copy your war base to the village side, and have the others copy it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ripple1972

Numbers: Not doing Cocp for offense, life interferes with fun. Weight is gold store

TH	BK	Aq	Warden	Weight	Offense		TH	BK	AQ	Warden	Weight	Offense
12	20	25	15	110	Max Miner		12	45	45	20	114	th11
12	17	21	15	110	Max Miner		12	32	36	20	114	th11
12	15	13	8	107	Miners5		12	40	40	20	113	th11
12	22	32	20	102	TH11		10	40	40		89	th10
11	50	50	20	86	Max th11		11	14	18	6	89	th10
11	14	14	8	73	Miners5		10	11	16		68	th9
9	30	30		66	Max th9		9	11	13		59	th8
8	10			52			8	10			53
8	6			46			8	2			40
8	5			44			7	4			39
Totals	189	185	86	796				209	208	66	778

---

The range of 69k WW to 110k WW tells me that these TH12s are very rushed, would likely have a bunch of eagles but not much in the way of other defense. The current match tells me that the MM says that 4 rushed bases equals 3 max bases which in itself is hard to overcome.

MM says you will not be able to war these accounts until you max out your top 4 bases, sorry.

Thats a lot of problems for the brightest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ripple1972

They are running bases I have seen before. Our bases are a combo of troll, eyes closed placement and perfection. We will get a couple scouts on the top, at least cc, and air mines. This will come down to how good their top are. They control their own destiny more than we do.

I don't think it is an unfair match, rushed bases almost always are disadvantaged and Viking and I both figured this would be the result. According to cocp they have been inconsistent. A couple 29/30, and a couple where they either missed a lot or didn't show.
I am using my mind powers to see if I can impact the results, but never took the advanced GM course.

I was more curious as to what we would see, and how long than the result.

---

Sounds like you have better base designs; as you say, let's see how well they attack but sounds like you guys will be the better attackers. I just got fooled by a weird design and ended with 92% but luckily they could only get one star on my TH12 and I tripled their number 1 so we ended up winning.

Good luck with the mind powers and let us know how it ends up!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joshsgrandad

Just an observation. I am not interested in the "brighter build" debates. But, if your base is holding well, and the other similar size bases are struggling.. Why don't your clan make use of the "copy base" option, that is now available. Can simply copy your war base to the village side, and have the others copy it.

---

I did for one of my bases and was doing just that last couple days with some builders free. Defending at TH12 is less about weight than HOW to defend and what you need. My base works for me because some stuff is priority for defense, but may not work for someone else because certain items are not upgraded enough, or maybe walls.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KOAE

Sounds like you have better base designs; as you say, let's see how well they attack but sounds like you guys will be the better attackers. I just got fooled by a weird design and ended with 92% but luckily they could only get one star on my TH12 and I tripled their number 1 so we ended up winning.

Good luck with the mind powers and let us know how it ends up!

---

The rushed 12s all have a very similar troll design, If I used cwl anti 3 bases or trophy bases it would be auto three star for opponents due to the weak peripheral defences (th9 many, some even th8).

if the troll throws then off we have a shot, If they figure it out quickly its aperfect war for them. I suspect they will perfect us fairly easily but ripple seans more confident, Im going he really does have martian mind power because with my skill level and rushed bases we really need it.

Lets see how it all plays our but unless ripple is in the form of his life we in trouble.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vikingchief

The rushed 12s all have a very similar troll design, If I used cwl anti 3 bases or trophy bases it would be auto three star for opponents due to the weak peripheral defences (th9 many, some even th8).

if the troll throws then off we have a shot, If they figure it out quickly its aperfect war for them. I suspect they will perfect us fairly easily but ripple seans more confident, Im going he really does have martian mind power because with my skill level and rushed bases we really need it.

Lets see how it all plays our but unless ripple is in the form of his life we in trouble.

---

Will be interested to hear the results and good luck with those troll bases!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vikingchief

The rushed 12s all have a very similar troll design, If I used cwl anti 3 bases or trophy bases it would be auto three star for opponents due to the weak peripheral defences (th9 many, some even th8).

if the troll throws then off we have a shot, If they figure it out quickly its aperfect war for them. I suspect they will perfect us fairly easily but ripple seans more confident, Im going he really does have martian mind power because with my skill level and rushed bases we really need it.

Lets see how it all plays our but unless ripple is in the form of his life we in trouble.

---

You got some power pots on them?

Your #3 and #6 take their 4,5,6 with 1 spare attack from #3

Your #7 and #8 clear 7-10

Your #9 and #10 scout their 1-4

That would leave you 9 attacks for their top 3 assuming a weak 12 can take a max 10.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MajorJohnson

You got some power pots on them?

Your #3 and #6 take their 4,5,6 with 1 spare attack from #3

Your #7 and #8 clear 7-10

Your #9 and #10 scout their 1-4

That would leave you 9 attacks for their top 3 assuming a weak 12 can take a max 10.

---

Power potions wouldnt help only minions unlocked on the miner 12s, Hopefully i have one on our 4.

4/5/6 cleared, but our 2 had to bail out out 3 (me backing out me) after poor attack, wrong spells, bad placement, bad timing, Its 12pm and Im half asleep, should probably Wait till morning but maybe use 2 more attacks.

edit: so 8 attacks for top 3, great call on power potions, Luckily hadnt collector clan games rewards on our 4 yet, so now hes got Max troops for his attacks, If i wasnt such a casual we would have a real shot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vikingchief

Power potions wouldnt help only minions unlocked on the miner 12s, Hopefully i have one on our 4.

4/5/6 cleared, but our 2 had to bail out out 3 (me backing out me) after poor attack, wrong spells, bad placement, bad timing, Its 12pm and Im half asleep, should probably Wait till morning but maybe use 2 more attacks.

---

Just 1 and 2 left with 6 attacks? That's pretty good!

Get some sleep and attack in the morning, I've failed lots of attacks being half asleep.