Siege engine overpowered here’s an idea…

So that new thing is crazy overpowered- described as invincible wall breakers crossed with a golem crossed with 1-2 jumps. In fact at this stage I don’t even feel it adds to the gameplay. Rather takes away from it. So what can we do to improve this situation?

new trap- the ambush. Make th10+ capable of building two of these. If the siege engine passes within let’s say 4-5 tiles from it the ambush trap activates and destroys the siege engine. You can level this trap and depending on what level it is is what % health the cc troops lose once the engine is ambushed. 25%-50%-75%


so what do you think ?

Siege machine is not op. Bad idea.

The siege machines are a great addition to the game because they make multi stage attacks at th11/12 easier. More skilled attacks instead of bowitch spam. I like it. I dont have a th10 but there were many complaints about it being too difficult. Siege machines will fix this, too.

It makes every attack easier.. a lot easier. Including spammin bowitch ..

Siege engine reduces the skill required to do 3 star attacks by a large margin. That is the definition of OP

What th are you? (And can I get a player tag to see if it's rushed? :p) I don't have any problems defending against them at th12. They can't destroy more than three defenses and one or two walls.

Near max 11

Try to make a triangle with infernos, ea and th to defend against siege machines. Itzu shows this in a video but it's in German. (https://youtu.be/JzbESOJRJ9Q)

I really think it depends on the th level. At 12, maybe it may be more multi stage (I'm not a Th12). However at th11, it makes it even more spamy. I'm #2 in war as a new th11, max troops space, lv3 bowler/witch, 44aq/40king, still only one spell capacity, and I spam giant, witch, and bowler to victory with the siege machine. It's OP because instead of taking 1 or 2 jump, in its place I can take 1 or two more rage/heal. Enemy #1 and enemy #2 was literally no match.

Our th12 wasnt in war and the enemy doesn't have a th12 so only we have the siege machine and it's only because of that we gonna be victorious. Sadly, in the future I think we gonna see a lot of draw in war becasue every body will be able to 3 star everybody, of course meaning war with only th11 and under but have ability to receive siege machine.

Siege engine is not OP, the donated one can be maxed already in high level clan while the Th12 defenses are mostly still TH11 level.
Also right now most of the heroes are not defending either upgrading or not in guard mode, same with cc troops. I have them all in sleep mode while I am boosting them, because I don’t want anyone injured before an attack. So my own base’s defense is weaker than before update. And so are many bases I attack.
If I use one of my own lv 1 WW it’s ok. Not too OP but not useless. If I use a maxed WW which is donated then it’s strong... once the defenses get upgraded I think the maxed Siege Engine will be not nearly as OP as it seems at times.

Right now our clan only has 3 people able to donate any siege engines... so we don’t give TH 10 accounts (most of them are minis of Th12) many to play with. As for the TH11 they are pretty much same strength of our TH12s right now....

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Originally Posted by BCX

I really think it depends on the th level. At 12, maybe it may be more multi stage (I'm not a Th12). However at th11, it makes it even more spamy. I'm #2 in war as a new th11, max troops space, lv3 bowler/witch, 44aq/40king, still only one spell capacity, and I spam giant, witch, and bowler to victory with the siege machine. It's OP because instead of taking 1 or 2 jump, in its place I can take 1 or two more rage/heal. Enemy #1 and enemy #2 was literally no match.

Our th12 wasnt in war and the enemy doesn't have a th12 so only we have the siege machine and it's only because of that we gonna be victorious. Sadly, in the future I think we gonna see a lot of draw in war becasue every body will be able to 3 star everybody, of course meaning war with only th11 and under but have ability to receive siege machine.

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I guess they just had bad layouts or weak defenses. My clan mates need about 5 tries with bowitch to 3 star my war base. Got the new traps and th tesla but everything was lvl1 and they are max th11.

when using SM in war, I often saw my opponent made a mistake. Some deployed SM pretty well but there was no cc troops inside. Some forgot to bring cc troops at all. And, some used ground SM with LaLoon. Their top attackers were messed up by this new toy rather than helping them. XD

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Originally Posted by Realtruth

It makes every attack easier.. a lot easier. Including spammin bowitch ..

Siege engine reduces the skill required to do 3 star attacks by a large margin. That is the definition of OP

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That isn’t my definition of OP. What if it made 3 star attacks go from 1% to 3%? That would be making it 3 times as easy, yet that wouldn’t be OP. What if it was from 10% to 20%. That is twice as easy, but yet not OP.

New trap? More to grind? Let us give 50 lvl per each defense/troop/walls. This way at least no one will be screaming lack of content.

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Originally Posted by Colin94

I guess they just had bad layouts or weak defenses. My clan mates need about 5 tries with bowitch to 3 star my war base. Got the new traps and th tesla but everything was lvl1 and they are max th11.

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We definitely ain't pulling the max th11 so for sure the defense is still weak; #1 had a war weight of 102 and #2 had a war weight of 101. Regardless, to be able to pull a 3 star already as a new Th11 I think that's OP.

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Originally Posted by 2222

That isn’t my definition of OP. What if it made 3 star attacks go from 1% to 3%? That would be making it 3 times as easy, yet that wouldn’t be OP. What if it was from 10% to 20%. That is twice as easy, but yet not OP.

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How about 30% to nearly 90%? You are being not true to yourself if you say that the sm is not very powerful, borderline op. I actually would rather them keep the sm alone but undo the buff to spammy troops- mainly witches and miners.

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Originally Posted by Redviper42

How about 30% to nearly 90%? You are being not true to yourself if you say that the sm is not very powerful, borderline op. I actually would rather them keep the sm alone but undo the buff to spammy troops- mainly witches and miners.

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It remains to be seen how meaningful the buffs were. At th11 level witches were mainly used for their skele spawn (which was nerfed) NOT their dps. And miners still seem lackluster compared to bowitch comps.

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Originally Posted by BCX

We definitely ain't pulling the max th11 so for sure the defense is still weak; #1 had a war weight of 102 and #2 had a war weight of 101. Regardless, to be able to pull a 3 star already as a new Th11 I think that's OP.

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I don't think it's fair to call it a "new th11" if it already has max troops.. Since this is an ATTACK only the attackers offence should be taken into account, and the attacker is definitely not "new" if you have those troop levels.

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Originally Posted by Colin94

Siege machine is not op. Bad idea.

The siege machines are a great addition to the game because they make multi stage attacks at th11/12 easier. More skilled attacks instead of bowitch spam. I like it. I dont have a th10 but there were many complaints about it being too difficult. Siege machines will fix this, too.

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Agree 100%. Base designs will adjust too so attacks will be slightly more difficult. So far ballancing seems right for 10v10 11v11. Most th12 are still th11 defensively so we dont know yet but seems good.

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Originally Posted by Plyc

It remains to be seen how meaningful the buffs were. At th11 level witches were mainly used for their skele spawn (which was nerfed) NOT their dps. And miners still seem lackluster compared to bowitch comps.

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Meanwhile 16-20 witchspam is rolling th10s...th11 miners are VERY strong

Nah. Its all good. No need to start nerfing

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Originally Posted by 2222

That isn’t my definition of OP. What if it made 3 star attacks go from 1% to 3%? That would be making it 3 times as easy, yet that wouldn’t be OP. What if it was from 10% to 20%. That is twice as easy, but yet not OP.

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My definition of O.P is anything that would give odd or abnormal results regardless of the number of stars someone gets from a battle. If there was a spell that could instantly one star a base that would be overpowered although it is not 3 stars. When I see a spam bowitch attack goes wrong from the very beginning, yet the guy still mange to get the townhall cuz a few bowlers turned semi-immortal by healers finally find their way to the TH and destroyed it despite many defenses shooting on them like crazy, that in my opinion is OP. When a TH 9 could get 9 times over 10 a 50% one star on any Th11-12 with baby dragons, yet the same Th9 wouldn't be able to do 30% on these same bases using any other combo, that's something O.P in my book.

I don't know if the Siege Machine is OP or not. Till now I've defended well against it. But the whole strategic part of that game was funneling, so if now we start having troops that go straight to the TH, I hope it is not gonna remove the few remaining strategy/skills in this game.

OP is :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lpqmSEV2s0

:thumbsup:

How about we wait for TH12 defenses to be built before we start screaming for a nerf or calling something OP. I suspect that most players opted to use books/ gems for offense so of course it will have the upper hand until defenses finish building.

A lot of clans don't even have the Siege Machines yet and we are already talking about giving TH10s something to combat them?


Did TH7 get a specific defence against the AQ .. do TH9s even attack TH7s on a regular basis?

Did TH9 get a specific defence against the GW .. are TH11s even supposed to attack TH9s? And shouldn't they be able to Curb Stomp them if they did?

TH10s ain't going to get a defence against the Siege Machines because neither TH11s nor TH12s are supposed to attack TH10s unless it's for cleanup and in that case, the cleanup should be pretty easy.

Siege Machines are strong, but .. they don't really upset the gameplay THAT much, in the TH12 on TH12 or TH11 on TH11 space where they belong.

/Affront

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Originally Posted by Affront

A lot of clans don't even have the Siege Machines yet and we are already talking about giving TH10s something to combat them?


Did TH7 get a specific defence against the AQ .. do TH9s even attack TH7s on a regular basis?

Did TH9 get a specific defence against the GW .. are TH11s even supposed to attack TH9s? And shouldn't they be able to Curb Stomp them if they did?

TH10s ain't going to get a defence against the Siege Machines because neither TH11s nor TH12s are supposed to attack TH10s unless it's for cleanup and in that case, the cleanup should be pretty easy.

Siege Machines are strong, but .. they don't really upset the gameplay THAT much, in the TH12 on TH12 or TH11 on TH11 space where they belong.

/Affront

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Yeah, I will add that since TH10 is no longer the 1st or 2nd highest TH level, pretty much every war that contains a lot of TH11 and TH12, all the TH10 should be cleared. If a Clan could not clear some TH10, they will lose. And now, as TH12 is introduced, all the more the TH12 that dip down had to clear TH11 in order to win the war.

So I feel like we are in the right balance in terms of TH10 versus TH10 by adding the Siege Machine. It does not really change the balance a lot. You still need precise planning and execution, without it you will still fail. You fail not because you don't have a Siege Machine. If talking about TH11 and TH12 dip down to take out TH10, it's not going to change, it will still be a 3 stars regardless of usage of Siege Machine.

Siege machine helps but not exactly OP

So to get this straight, because there is a change in the gameplay, you sit back and expect your old layout (I bet it has a center TH) to hold up against a new attack style?

And once again jump on the forums complaining that something is OP. You and your mindset is what makes the devs do bad changes and nerfs to something that does not need a nerf or change.

It's an adapt or die system, if you don't make changes to prevent the new attack styles you will just be here on the forums crying 24/7. Just change your base layout, Push your TH out to the sides, go look for anti 3 star designs on the net if you can't come up with your own, stay away from anti 2 star base designs because there is no such thing (the ones that island your TH in the core).

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Originally Posted by SilverX

Yeah, I will add that since TH10 is no longer the 1st or 2nd highest TH level, pretty much every war that contains a lot of TH11 and TH12, all the TH10 should be cleared. If a Clan could not clear some TH10, they will lose. And now, as TH12 is introduced, all the more the TH12 that dip down had to clear TH11 in order to win the war.

So I feel like we are in the right balance in terms of TH10 versus TH10 by adding the Siege Machine. It does not really change the balance a lot. You still need precise planning and execution, without it you will still fail. You fail not because you don't have a Siege Machine. If talking about TH11 and TH12 dip down to take out TH10, it's not going to change, it will still be a 3 stars regardless of usage of Siege Machine.

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10 is no longer one of 2 highest levels, but it is still relevant and should remain competitive and as fair as possible. Many clans have no 12s, or even 11s. When such clans face clans with a 12 doner, they will be smashed. I like most of the recent updates, but I really wish they would reconsider the ability to donate siege machines. It is a great addition at 12, but it can and eventually will ruin war for clans with 10s at top of lineup and no 12 doner.

Easy fix is to redesign your base. Having open compartments with scattered single walls is destroying siege machines left and right. It gets stuck smashing individual walls through a single compartment

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Originally Posted by Colin94

Try to make a triangle with infernos, ea and th to defend against siege machines. Itzu shows this in a video but it's in German. (https://youtu.be/JzbESOJRJ9Q)

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Any chance someone (where is Napoleon when I need him) could translate the gist of why the triangle works? It sounds important.

The siege engine is an absolutely unnecessary addition that adds nothing to the game. Why spend months and months getting the necessary resources to build walls when a siege machine just goes right through? And from what I can tell, they've made wallbreakers completely obsolete at higher TH levels.

Also, having to have the siege engine spot in a clan castle filled before a troop request disappears is annoying.

I honestly wish siege engines were scrapped in the brainstorming phase of TH12. They are doing nothing for the game at all.

Why don't we wait for base upgrading and better base design than calling for nerfs after 4 whole days?

Can we get all of these siege machine threads merged into one mega thread?

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Originally Posted by Starryisafk

Any chance someone (where is Napoleon when I need him) could translate the gist of why the triangle works? It sounds important.

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https://i.imgur.com/zgCnVHJr.jpg

When you build a triangle like this, it's difficult to use the siege machine.
TH side: it will self destruct very early
Left/right inferno side: single inferno will kill the siege machine
Between infernos: both infernos will target your troops and you can't kill the enemy queen and th12 tesla

The yellow arrow shows the best side to attack with a ks for laloon. You can predict where a good attacker will come from and adjust traps/defenses to stop him.

One of my clan mates used a siege machine testing something out, he got a 2 Star. Yes it was testing but if truly OP it would’ve been a 3* by all the other TH11s too. Some gained 3 others did not.

They were against 100% maxed bases of the TH11 standard, and maxed siege machines via cc.

Made a mistake with the wording that made no sense, hope this cleared up any confusion.

Going to go with not OP. I am about 1/3 through th11 with 40/40/8 and no new defenses. Maxed teslas, AD, archer towers moslty maxed the rest at th10. I got attacked farming with a siege engine and they got a solid 2 star. I have a central town hall and the single inferno almost got it, but a well time freeze spell saved it.

Felt like a very solid attack to me and the seige engine did help, but I don't see it as OP. Had I gotten a few more defenses upgraded, higher inferno towers, or an eagle I think it would have been toast and just a one star.

So early on it seems just fine to me. In war I already do an anti-3 base with town hall offset. Siege engine will do almost nothing to help this base. Time will tell if I need to change it up to deal with things.

Is that not the point? To see what has changed, then adapt? I am Soooooo excited again. I was getting bored grinding away, and moving pretty slow honestly. The last few days I have logged more hours than the last 2 weeks!

Fantastic job SC!¡!

Go ahead call me a fan boy...I can take it😋

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Originally Posted by iamnotdeadyet

do you even have it unlocked or another th10 eho played it once and saw it in action and decided its op?? cause i am finding more th10s crying about siege being op since they can only get it in cc. its like case of sour grapes for them 😂

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This th10 is crying not because I can only get machine in cc, but because it is available at all. Definitely sour grapes when a clan with no machine availability matches machines in war. I've read plenty of posts from 12s that dislike donating machines and 10s that don't want them. Why not make every happy and scrap the whole donation of machines idea? Make the machine that incentive to continue on to 12 without killing lower game play. I'm sure there are some clans out there now starting new accounts for the sole pups of feeding their 10s and 11s. New day, new loophole. Many will have extra accts that will not take long. How long would it take to get a 12 just for machine donation with minimum upgrades?

I'm in a clan who doesn't have siege engines yet. We're at war with a clan who has and we don't stand a chance. I think it seems unfair that you can donate them, giving attackers a big advantage.

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Originally Posted by Gerlof

I'm in a clan who doesn't have siege engines yet. We're at war with a clan who has and we don't stand a chance. I think it seems unfair that you can donate them, giving attackers a big advantage.

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Sorry you got stuck with such an obvious disadvantage. This should never happen, but I imagine we will be seeing many more posts just like yours. It is inevitable. It's sad that SC has implemented this. They had to know terrible mismatches were coming. I guess it's back to sitting out of wars again. I should have kept my th 9 to have some hope of avoiding the machines. I'll finish up my 10 and take a break. Maybe SC will come to their senses and remove machine donations. It's a shame too because matchmaking and other updates were making the game enjoyable again. The inferno change and matchmaking change got me to finally upgrade my 9 after taking months off due to poor war matching.

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Originally Posted by Gerlof

I'm in a clan who doesn't have siege engines yet. We're at war with a clan who has and we don't stand a chance. I think it seems unfair that you can donate them, giving attackers a big advantage.

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We're in the same boat right now. We don't have siege machines, but we've been getting some good 10v10 3 stars, enemy clan hasn't gotten a single one. Their top th11 failed to dip twice with no siege machine, but our 2nd th11 gets fresh 3 starred with a battle ram. That ram was deployed on the opposite side of the town hall and ran through the entire base -_-If that's not overpowered idk what is anymore

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Originally Posted by Realtruth

So that new thing is crazy overpowered- described as invincible wall breakers crossed with a golem crossed with 1-2 jumps. In fact at this stage I don’t even feel it adds to the gameplay. Rather takes away from it. So what can we do to improve this situation?

new trap- the ambush. Make th10+ capable of building two of these. If the siege engine passes within let’s say 4-5 tiles from it the ambush trap activates and destroys the siege engine. You can level this trap and depending on what level it is is what % health the cc troops lose once the engine is ambushed. 25%-50%-75%


so what do you think ?

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Seige only seems op if your defenses are rushed. Max out your defenses.

It's not overpowered at th11 and 12.

It's not OP. Give the defenses time to catch up.

I won't say that they are OP, but I will say that they don't add anything to the game for me. My style of gameplay tends towards using miners or using air attacks - something that negates the walls. A siege engine is unnecessary for me and annoying to deal with on defense.

Not that I bother with defense much anymore, since defensive structures like inferno towers have been nerfed and offense is favored anyway.

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Originally Posted by Redviper42

How about 30% to nearly 90%? You are being not true to yourself if you say that the sm is not very powerful, borderline op. I actually would rather them keep the sm alone but undo the buff to spammy troops- mainly witches and miners.

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I never said it wasn’t powerful. The post of mine you replied to was in response to an inaccurate definition of what OP means.

As for whether the SM is OP, I don’t think so at th10 since th10 is the new th9. It was too hard to 3 star even when it was the 2nd highest hall and it would be way too hard to 3 star as the 3rd highest hall if they didn’t change something. At th11 I also don’t think it is OP. It definitely increases the 3 star rates for 11v11 and I’m fine with that. I thought 11 was at a pretty good balance for being the highest hall, but now that it no longer is the highest hall I’m glad the SM makes it easier to 3 star. For th12 I don’t know yet. It is very easy to have a max SM and max army combo right now, but not so easy to have max defense. So, offense should be very powerful right now, otherwise it will be terrible later when defenses catch up. I will need to wait to see what it is like against max defenses and properly designed bases before knowing whether I consider it OP and in need of a nerf. One thing SC could have done is only release SM as level 1 for now and then add the extra levels later when defenses are higher. That would have made sense to me.

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Originally Posted by Beachdude67

I won't say that they are OP, but I will say that they don't add anything to the game for me. My style of gameplay tends towards using miners or using air attacks - something that negates the walls. A siege engine is unnecessary for me and annoying to deal with on defense.

Not that I bother with defense much anymore, since defensive structures like inferno towers have been nerfed and offense is favored anyway.

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Currently using miners to get some dark, and I use one siege machine every attack, it works as a fine tank, and soaks quite a bit of damage for miners, and lets the queen get inside the base more easily to help (king upgrading so haven't used him with miners).

Spending some gold to get a higher percentage of the loot seems worth it.

I won't go as far as saying they're OP, but I do think they completely blow-up TH10 vs TH10 wars. It amazes me to watch those wall wreckers work. Honestly, my golems seem to melt faster than the wall wrecker, and they don't even take out the walls for me. Put a few giants in your SM, and you're almost guaranteed to have something tanking for you throughout your whole hit. Admittedly, this may be by design with SC, encouraging players to jump out of TH10 by introducing something that completely blows-up the strategic side of TH10 wars. While I do wish SMs were only available at the end game (i.e., TH11s & TH12s), its also early so maybe there'll be some balancing incoming in the coming weeks. Who knows...