How Can Supercell Get you to Upgrade your Permabase?

A while back, Darian mention that one of the reasons for nerfing infernos heal blocking was to encourage all us perma TH9s to go to TH10.

I thought to myself “Good luck in doing that!”

We’ve been doing great with our nearly maxed TH9s. We currently have not lost a war in our last 28 outings. Though, I do fear that might be coming to an end tomorrow. We are currently matched to a clan that could do it.

We didn’t win them all, we have two ties in the run. Our war win streak is only 10. That’s pretty darn good.

All of our TH9s have level 2 xbows but most have high level Royals. Mine are 30/30. Several of our nines have maxed except for Xbows. That’s my contribution to engineering and I do realize it’s slight engineering.

War Weight Goes Away

In Darian’s post for collecting information for science regarding unfair wars, he posted something to indicate that they were considering “Radical” ideas for war. I thought great, they are going to give a minimum weight to TH at last. I now think that was wishful thinking.

I have not followed CWL closely but I doubt you’ll find a lot of engineered clans in contention for the top spot.

I’m no expert on CWL but I don’t think war weight comes into play at all. It’s a bracket type thing. You win, you move up. It seems to me that the best way to win is to have a boatload of max TH11s in that situation.

If I understood Darian correctly, they said they had come up with an idea that they are confident will remove the advantage for engineering.

A while back, some of the Game specialist and other experts were discussing a system like that used in chess could do away with war weight.

If they do that, that would get me off my perma TH9 and my perma TH10.

I suspect that it will also mean the beginning of a long losing streak for our clan. With all those wins we have had, we’d likely be ranked much higher than our capabilities with our TH9s and 8s.

So, I really don’t want it to happen but I fear it will. It will get me to upgrade to TH10 and beyond. That’s about the only way I can see it happening. :)

What about you? Would you be likely to take your permabase to the next level if war weight stops being the main factor for war?

Do you think it is likely or far fetched that war weight will be going away? If it does go, can you picture all the whining on the forums?

Far fetched! Clans should be matched as far as possible for a fair match , otherwise it’ll be the case of those who can gem the most will win and it’ll be the end of the lower players. It’d be absurd to take it that far

BUT, I think war weight needs an overhaul. Infernos (IMO) are too heavy (especially for what they do now- OR restore them to their former glory). And we know this because we see those 10.75s (or whatever we call them) with the max defenses except the eagle and infernos and they sit under a max TH10 on a war map and they are far harder to take down than a max Th10. That should be addressed. I can’t believe it still hasn’t tbh

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Originally Posted by StormHeart

I have not followed CWL closely but I doubt you’ll find a lot of engineered clans in contention for the top spot.

I’m no expert on CWL but I don’t think war weight comes into play at all. It’s a bracket type thing. You win, you move up. It seems to me that the best way to win is to have a boatload of max TH11s in that situation.

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CWL, NDL, MCLW absolutely do rely on war weight. Their breakdowns for each townhall are matched with their opponent so neither clan has a defensive/offensive advantage.

My wife's base is getting maxed to th9. I would never recommend her to hit the upgrade button to th10 as of now as it's the perfect spot.

Heroes : Th9 will always be an important transition point in the game because of the heroes (th8 BK10 to th9 AQ30/BK30). That's a huge step.

Walls : are now easier to do (previously 3mil gold only to 3mil gold/elixir) , but it still is difficult for a new th9, still adjusting to the dynamics of the game.

Wars : The real variety of attack strategies start at th9 & its fun 3 starring other th9's with some amount of skill.

Th9 will always be a special spot
& I sincerely hope supercell dies not kill th9's charm by making unnecessary changes.

I agree, I like TH9 but I do have a weakness, it's hogs. i need to work on those. My QW is not all that great either. I recently dropped trophies so I could work on QW with hogs. It wasn't pretty. LOL I did three star three times but even those were not pretty. I need to do more of it.

GoWiPe was hard a long long time ago because I hadn't done it. Now I can do it almost with my eyes closed. :)

I do think they are going to kill war weight but I've been wrong before. I'm also not changing anything until I see it happen.

We are about to start a war, in about 5 minutes. They have four TH9s all completely maxed except Royals and they have high level royals so we could finally lose. If we took four max TH9s I can just about guarantee you that we would draw a strongish TH10.

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Originally Posted by SpartanDoc

My wife's base is getting maxed to th9. I would never recommend her to hit the upgrade button to th10 as of now as it's the perfect spot.

Heroes : Th9 will always be an important transition point in the game because of the heroes (th8 BK10 to th9 AQ30/BK30). That's a huge step.

Walls : are now easier to do (previously 3mil gold only to 3mil gold/elixir) , but it still is difficult for a new th9, still adjusting to the dynamics of the game.

Wars : The real variety of attack strategies start at th9 & its fun 3 starring other th9's with some amount of skill.

Th9 will always be a special spot
& I sincerely hope supercell dies not kill th9's charm by making unnecessary changes.

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The air is getting thiner with every update for perma bases.
I'm a convinced single accounter and I never had the idea to stop at some point, so it don't affects me now, but I saw it on the way up as well.
Since the first players hit Th 10, SC had to realise they spend a lot more money, than the players of lower bases. At least form the December update 2015 SC is working on the goal making lower Ths not worth staying at.
1st. example: They introduced a hopelessly OP lv. 3 Witch, waited a few weeks until everyone is crying for a nerf ..... but the nerf don't just moderate the max Witch, it makes the low level Witch completely useless.
2nd. example: They introduced a much faster Valk and to make sure, it's not too OP, they reduced the hitpoints around 20% (!). So the Valks level 1-3 are useless.
3rd example: They did this https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...rs-Matchmaking this was the introdution of the biggest evil of the game, it makes engineering a real advantage. We discussed it the day it was pulished in our Clan and everyone agreed, where this is heading for. So nobody can tell me, it was an accident.

Now, with the spam of rewards in Clan Games, they found a much more positive way to force the players to grade up (and spend money!).
I like this way a lot more ...... But the message stays the same: A permanent stand at a low Th level should not be enjoyable.

The air is wonderful for a permabase up to this point. It's a very good strategy for war too.

There is only a small portion of player that will max a TH as soon as the next level come out. That is gemmers. Yes, that is immediate income for SC but that's not sustainable.

Sure, SC does something for profit but nothing indicates to me that they make major changes to the game bases on money. I don't that is a major factor for SC. Or course, in the end money is key but I think they are more focused on making the game better and think that will make more money. I think they are right.

You have some bad information about level 2 valks. Maybe you don't mean at TH8 but they are very good at TH8 before they were buffed they were good. I went to champ as a TH8 using level 2 valks long before they were buffed.

Level 2 witches are incredible at TH9. I've got a LOT of three star war attacks using them. I think the biggest streak was 13 3 stars in a row and that was at the top of our map. They are over powered at TH9 if anything.

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Originally Posted by MiCra

The air is getting thiner with every update for perma bases.
I'm a convinced single accounter and I never had the idea to stop at some point, so it don't affects me now, but I saw it on the way up as well.
Since the first players hit Th 10, SC had to realise they spend a lot more money, than the players of lower bases. At least form the December update 2015 SC is working on the goal making lower Ths not worth staying at.
1st. example: They introduced a hopelessly OP lv. 3 Witch, waited a few weeks until everyone is crying for a nerf ..... but the nerf don't just moderate the max Witch, it makes the low level Witch completely useless.
2nd. example: They introduced a much faster Valk and to make sure, it's not too OP, they reduced the hitpoints around 20% (!). So the Valks level 1-3 are useless.
3rd example: They did this https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...rs-Matchmaking this was the introdution of the biggest evil of the game, it makes engineering a real advantage. We discussed it the day it was pulished in our Clan and everyone agreed, where this is heading for. So nobody can tell me, it was an accident.

Now, with the spam of rewards in Clan Games, they found a much more positive way to force the players to grade up (and spend money!).
I like this way a lot more ...... But the message stays the same: A permanent stand at a low Th level should not be enjoyable.

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Originally Posted by StormHeart

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You have some bad information about level 2 valks. Maybe you don't mean at TH8 but they are very good at TH8 before they were buffed they were good. I went to champ as a TH8 using level 2 valks long before they were buffed.

Level 2 witches are incredible at TH9. I've got a LOT of three star war attacks using them. I think the biggest streak was 13 3 stars in a row and that was at the top of our map. They are over powered at TH9 if anything.

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I have the same information about Valks as you. Before they were "buffed" you could easily take down a level 2 Inferno with them as a Th 8 in Champs. One day after the update they had been fried before they could even reach it. This I know for sure, because I was at Th 8 and using Valks a lot this time.
A Witch, I did't had at the time it was nerfed, but I noticed how rare it became this time.

Anyway, I still think it's a bad Idea to ruin the fun of the lower THs. It is not really an endangerment for their business, if a few players decide to stay down there. Most probably this kind of player will not spend more money on the Game even if they give up and go on.

i suspect that most of the perma bases are not primary accounts, and are just secomdary accounts which arent focused on. so if people successfully max their main base, they may play their other accounts and upgrade them.

i dont know about other clashers, but right now i only have 1 active main accounts, 1 occasionally active engineered th10, and 2 inactive perma th9.

Interesting discussion but I don’t understand how anyone can enjoy only playing half a game, which is how I feel it must be sticking at th 9 when there are troops and defences and upgrades that you will never have the enjoyment of experimenting with.

To my mind it’s a bit like being in a second division where war wins are gained but not against the big guns who have max troops and bases, hence they don’t mean as much.

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Originally Posted by Rst

Interesting discussion but I don’t understand how anyone can enjoy only playing half a game, which is how I feel it must be sticking at th 9 when there are troops and defences and upgrades that you will never have the enjoyment of experimenting with.

To my mind it’s a bit like being in a second division where war wins are gained but not against the big guns who have max troops and bases, hence they don’t mean as much.

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I was a max TH9 for over a year as a sole account, I didn't get bored once. Pushed to Titans for fun. Joined a league team, learnt a massive amount of strategies and helped other players.

I moved to TH10 earlier this year, not out of boredom but the pathways into TH10 were easier, clan games rewards, books, loot and TH9 had become more like TH8.

My perma TH9 is my main base. :) But, I do have a TH10 and a weak TH11.

Many people only have one but I'm retired and have no life so I have too much time.

Unless they do something like do away with war weight, I don't think they can get me to budge.

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Originally Posted by ClasherYukon

i suspect that most of the perma bases are not primary accounts, and are just secomdary accounts which arent focused on. so if people successfully max their main base, they may play their other accounts and upgrade them.

i dont know about other clashers, but right now i only have 1 active main accounts, 1 occasionally active engineered th10, and 2 inactive perma th9.

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Originally Posted by Rst

Interesting discussion but I don’t understand how anyone can enjoy only playing half a game, which is how I feel it must be sticking at th 9 when there are troops and defences and upgrades that you will never have the enjoyment of experimenting with.

To my mind it’s a bit like being in a second division where war wins are gained but not against the big guns who have max troops and bases, hence they don’t mean as much.

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I agree unless it is a second account, but I can see players big into the clan war leagues wanting it even for their main account.

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Originally Posted by Mico11813

I was a max TH9 for over a year as a sole account, I didn't get bored once. Pushed to Titans for fun. Joined a league team, learnt a massive amount of strategies and helped other players.

I moved to TH10 earlier this year, not out of boredom but the pathways into TH10 were easier, clan games rewards, books, loot and TH9 had become more like TH8.

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And this is why I resist the ideas by some to make Th9 harder to 3 star.

I will do whatever is necessary to win wars. If I have to upgrade my TH9 to do that, then I will upgrade it. Otherwise, there is no way I will. :P

If I had only one base it would be harder to stay at TH9 but I have a TH10 and TH11.

In one way, having multiple accounts has hurt me. I'm not a very diverse attacker. I've only mastered a few TH9 attacks. I'm to the point now that I can work on that and I am working on it. Clan games slows me down on trying new attacks. I want to get that done on my main so I end up using the same old attacks that I know I'm good at.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rst

Interesting discussion but I don’t understand how anyone can enjoy only playing half a game, which is how I feel it must be sticking at th 9 when there are troops and defences and upgrades that you will never have the enjoyment of experimenting with.

To my mind it’s a bit like being in a second division where war wins are gained but not against the big guns who have max troops and bases, hence they don’t mean as much.

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Originally Posted by MiCra

I have the same information about Valks as you. Before they were "buffed" you could easily take down a level 2 Inferno with them as a Th 8 in Champs. One day after the update they had been fried before they could even reach it. This I know for sure, because I was at Th 8 and using Valks a lot this time.
A Witch, I did't had at the time it was nerfed, but I noticed how rare it became this time.

Anyway, I still think it's a bad Idea to ruin the fun of the lower THs. It is not really an endangerment for their business, if a few players decide to stay down there. Most probably this kind of player will not spend more money on the Game even if they give up and go on.

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Provided that the TH10 isn't terribly rushed, a TH8 shouldn't even make it to the Infernos. His/her troops should be vaporized well before that.

Some people want to be a big fish in a small pond. Not sure you can ever change their mentality.

I didn't read any of the posts or the main thread. I'll say this much though, TH9 is such a cake walk once you go through the motions as a TH10/TH11 in war. That's why I'm currently making a perma TH9 base. It's just fun to hop on and grab an easy 6 pack. The amount of planning we do for TH11 bases in war is immensely more than for a TH9 base. It's nice to blow off some steam and kind of appreciate how much the game has changed from TH9 to TH11 as well.

TH10 on the other hand, I will not be touching that lol.

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Originally Posted by iGroot

I didn't read any of the posts or the main thread. I'll say this much though......l.

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Dont you think that reading even one post may be useful when joining in a thread to ensure the relevance of your post.

I can see both sides of the coin with this. I was a max th9 for about 8 months enjoying the nearly guaranteed 6 packs in war, but for me personally, it got boring. The inferno nerf update launched and I started my th10 upgrade that day and never regretted it. I was able to try new army comps and that brought a much needed freshness back to the game for me. I can understand if a perma 9 is an alt account and wanting to keep it there, but mine was my main and I needed to keep progressing.

OP, perma TH9 here (main account too)...

If SC did what you suspect they will I’d probably quit. I enjoy TH9 and enjoy hitting other TH9s. If the MM suddenly consistently put me in a situation where I had to hit 10s or 11s in order to encourage me to upgrade (or even 8s) then my enjoyment would be gone and I would quit rather than upgrade. I might still play the BB, but I would permanently opt out of war since it would be pointless for me.

Granted, there would stil be leagues, but if random matches were essentially closed to me I wouldn’t play anymore.

By adding some sort of "legendary th"/"legendary game mode" that makes lower ths pointless, luring a lot of players to higher ths while making the matchmaking really troublesome for lower ths in war, i.e. Or giving th9 the th5 treatment.

>I’m no expert on CWL

Actually, it sounds like you don't have a clue of what CWL is, tbh. You can't have rushed/engineered bases on CWL and, imo, it's the only scenario which maxing/having a permabase makes sense. Otherwise, you're just delaying your progress (unless you have a rushed alt).

>Do you think it is likely or far fetched that war weight will be going away? If it does go, can you picture all the whining on the forums?

I don't label anything as unlikely after december/15 and builder base - and the more I see Darian avoiding the words "th12", the more I expect riots.

My 2nd account is working towards maxing TH7 right now and I'm unsure just how far I'll take it. Maybe Max 8 and stay there? Perhaps I'll do just that but carry on with some nasty engineering afterwards or perhaps I'll just push it to 11 (or 12?) eventually.

Hard to say since I hated the TH9 grind the first go through.

Of course, when my main account was a 9, books didn't exist and gems were far less abundant so who knows.

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Originally Posted by PeutzJeghers

That's why that they should make even a rushed TH10 a huge hurdle even for maxed TH9s. Imagine that a rushed TH10 with TH8 level defenses but maxed infernos can resist even a maxed TH9 30/30 strongest attack and hold them to barely a 2 star. And that rushed TH10 with lvl2/3 miners can roll over a TH9 without even blinking

why? So engineers can rule? Build light weight th10s and 11s and face lower level opponents with no chance?

That's why the game should be changed in a way that there are no more "ponds", its all the great ocean

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Ummm....what?

I feel it's shortsighted to believe th11 should be the ultimate goal. My th9s are my most fun accounts. The variety at th9 makes it the most fun for me. While you can throw in any troop as a pity choice at th10 and 11. The variety at 10 and 11 are lacking. While content creators make videos showcasing abstract attacks at 10 and 11. The reality is at 11 you're going to use bowlers or laloon. At 10 you're going to use laloon hogs or bowitch. At th9 a good attacker can close their eyes and randomly pick an army and have a chance to 3 star. It's not that th9 is that easy; it's balanced. Almost every troop can function as a main troop or support troop at th9.

To answer your question. I think I'd stop playing my perma 9s if they ever became obsolete. Mainly because my max 10 is my least fav account. I don't want to go thru th10 again. My 10 has been maxed for maybe 2 years now. I keep it at th10 for reasons outside of SC control. Depending on how fun/balanced th12 is when it eventually comes out. Will determine if I leave my th11 as a perma th11.

I only grind my main. Permas remain permas... Permanently.

Clueless? No. Do I know very much? No. I used to watch some of the attacks on Youtube until they added that delay before it starts. I never had the time to wait for that delay. I maybe would now because most of my bases are where I want them. But, that's about the extent of my knowledge. That and their list of banned people and clans. I am sure I read up on it at some point but I've long ago forgotten.

There's no way you're going to the top of CWL with a silly engineered clan. I wondered if they just didn't let them in at all. Now I know, I might have known before and forgot. Our clan is no where near that kind of war so nothing for me really to look into.

Yeah, Darian said something in one of the QnA that caused many people to think that TH12 was near. But, he later clarified that. I'll be very surprised if that comes in the first half of this year. Maybe in December.

He just said they were working on it and people leaped to that it would be coming soon. I hope they are working on TH14, at least have some thoughts on it.

It's not really my theory about the end of war weight. I thought they were going to make wars more like an event. That is you must use x number of n troops. I would hate that but that was my theory. I decided that is not what they are going to do.

There was a post about a year ago, I think. The game specialist and other high level players were discussing a chess ranking system. I think it was Hawken or something like that. I had never heard of it but I did google it. I tried to find that thread but I had no luck.

I don't really want them to do away with war weight. Our clan has been built around it. With the improvements to war matching and my improvements to our roaster, we don't have a major issue with engineers. We see them but in the last three months it only allowed them to kill our TH8s. Our eights kill all the opposing 8s about 99.9 percent of the time. So, that's not an issue for us.

We will lose a lot of wars if they do away with it. I have a TH10 that is strong but no war experience so I don't expect to be a hero in war with it. We have a TH11 with a war weight of 96 but level 4 wizards towers and the fourth AD is gong to level 6 now. So it's useless for war. It's only good for donating. That has been the purpose of our TH10 and 11.

Darian's silence on TH12 is probably the biggest indicator that it could come sooner than I expect. But, that's just me. He's been very quiet. Probably now is not a good time for him to do QnA with an update likely to come.

He also had no comment about some kind of cooperative attacks. I think those were in war. I don't have a clue what that could be but that may be coming very soon.

I think, massive changes to war matching and some new cooperative attacking are likely to be the next update.

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Originally Posted by BaronScarpia

By adding some sort of "legendary th"/"legendary game mode" that makes lower ths pointless, luring a lot of players to higher ths while making the matchmaking really troublesome for lower ths in war, i.e. Or giving th9 the th5 treatment.

>I’m no expert on CWL

Actually, it sounds like you don't have a clue of what CWL is, tbh. You can't have rushed/engineered bases on CWL and, imo, it's the only scenario which maxing/having a permabase makes sense. Otherwise, you're just delaying your progress (unless you have a rushed alt).

>Do you think it is likely or far fetched that war weight will be going away? If it does go, can you picture all the whining on the forums?

I don't label anything as unlikely after december/15 and builder base - and the more I see Darian avoiding the words "th12", the more I expect riots.

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Even when I do get a little bored with the game, I just play through it. It goes away.

Being a clan leader changes how I think of things. I don't do anything for me, I do it for the clan. I'm thinking of starting a thread about how I ended up with 15 accounts. Most of them don't see any action these days. That is because of engineering. We went to smaller wars. I just can't see me having 7 to 10 accounts in a war again and I have done that. I have five in our current war. That's more than enough.

I won't quit. I'm retired and in poor health so I don't have much to do and this helps me waste away the time. :P

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Originally Posted by Gxr900

OP, perma TH9 here (main account too)...

If SC did what you suspect they will I’d probably quit. I enjoy TH9 and enjoy hitting other TH9s. If the MM suddenly consistently put me in a situation where I had to hit 10s or 11s in order to encourage me to upgrade (or even 8s) then my enjoyment would be gone and I would quit rather than upgrade. I might still play the BB, but I would permanently opt out of war since it would be pointless for me.

Granted, there would stil be leagues, but if random matches were essentially closed to me I wouldn’t play anymore.

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Because I can experience TH10 and 11 on other accounts, I don' have a reason to upgrade my TH9. I've been a nine for two years.

One thing, I'm not really ready to go to TH10. All those bases I have has hurt my attacking. There are too many attacks at TH9 that I have not used a lot. For that reason, I consider myself to be a weak TH9. Because I have been trying to get that TH10 ready for war, I've spent too much time there. It's ready now but my attacking skills are not ready there either.

As a clan leader everything I do is about the clan. If one of our nines goes to TH10 then it needs another strong TH10 to back them up. So, I have a strong TH10.

In my case, which isn't the norm, I just have no reason to upgrade my TH9 unless I can expect to be matched against a TH10 or higher. They only way that could happen is if war weight is not the major factory in matching for war.

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Originally Posted by Zedicuz

I can see both sides of the coin with this. I was a max th9 for about 8 months enjoying the nearly guaranteed 6 packs in war, but for me personally, it got boring. The inferno nerf update launched and I started my th10 upgrade that day and never regretted it. I was able to try new army comps and that brought a much needed freshness back to the game for me. I can understand if a perma 9 is an alt account and wanting to keep it there, but mine was my main and I needed to keep progressing.

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I've seen quite a few people that don't like TH10.

We had a TH8 that was a mini account. He once two starred a TH10 with infernos while he was a TH8 in war. He hated TH10. Said something like "TH10? I won't do it!" He has a strong TH11 but has left the game. I don't think he's coming back. His 11 was not in our clan.

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Originally Posted by ayih

I feel it's shortsighted to believe th11 should be the ultimate goal. My th9s are my most fun accounts. The variety at th9 makes it the most fun for me. While you can throw in any troop as a pity choice at th10 and 11. The variety at 10 and 11 are lacking. While content creators make videos showcasing abstract attacks at 10 and 11. The reality is at 11 you're going to use bowlers or laloon. At 10 you're going to use laloon hogs or bowitch. At th9 a good attacker can close their eyes and randomly pick an army and have a chance to 3 star. It's not that th9 is that easy; it's balanced. Almost every troop can function as a main troop or support troop at th9.

To answer your question. I think I'd stop playing my perma 9s if they ever became obsolete. Mainly because my max 10 is my least fav account. I don't want to go thru th10 again. My 10 has been maxed for maybe 2 years now. I keep it at th10 for reasons outside of SC control. Depending on how fun/balanced th12 is when it eventually comes out. Will determine if I leave my th11 as a perma th11.

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What I do not understand, is how a change in war matching would make permanent town-halls obsolete. Whatever they do, it will always make sense for a TH9 to match another TH9. SO yeah, permanent town-halls will always have their place, especially when they are maxed.

What I hope for (and it is not the first time I mention it either) is matchmaking where TH level is the major matchmaking variable. first match all town-hall levels, then consider war weight. So a 3x11, 3x10, 4x9 war will meet the exact same town-hall levels. That will immediately kill engineering. Of course war weight needs still to play a role, as you do not want maxed 11s being matched with just upgraded 11s if possible, but there should never be an extra TH11 on either side.

That one is easy.

We've gone 28 wars without a loss. Though, it looks like that is going to end today. :(

So our recent war performance is fantastic. If war weight went away, then we'll match with others that have fantastic war records.

We are not going to match to clans with TH9s and 8s. We'll likely be seeing Th11s. We are going to lose almost every war for a long time until we drop down far enough that we will win 50 percent with our 9s and 8s.

The game will change. We will all be more focused on climbing up the ladder and that means we need to have the strongest bases possible.

Only matching on recent war performance means you are going to face much stronger clans if you win. It already does but since war weight is still the determining factor we can keep our 9s and 8s and beat most clans.

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Originally Posted by LordSk

What I do not understand, is how a change in war matching would make permanent town-halls obsolete. Whatever they do, it will always make sense for a TH9 to match another TH9. SO yeah, permanent town-halls will always have their place, especially when they are maxed.

What I hope for (and it is not the first time I mention it either) is matchmaking where TH level is the major matchmaking variable. first match all town-hall levels, then consider war weight. So a 3x11, 3x10, 4x9 war will meet the exact same town-hall levels. That will immediately kill engineering. Of course war weight needs still to play a role, as you do not want maxed 11s being matched with just upgraded 11s if possible, but there should never be an extra TH11 on either side.

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I have an account that is staying TH9, one at TH10, two at TH11 where one is staying and one is moving up when/if the time comes. I can't think of anything that would make me abandon this approach, but then again, I'm talking about minis. The main account is always going for max.

i really cant understand why ppl seem to find th9 to be in a "perfect spot".

i got a max th9 account for numbers as a mini account, and i never fail to get 3 stars on any other th9 base. old school mass gobs with ks entry against cc and aq, and then heal the hogs through, surgical deployment. it s no challenge, just for safe stars, i.e. boring.

and yes, i m facing so-called good anti3 bases...

th9 is in the same category as th8 to me. both shouldnt have a place in high level gameplay, imo. ie shouldnt be in league wars... ( in casual wars all is fine, of course. i wouldnt want that sc forces anyone to upgrade anything!)

They will never just match on war logs. Removing the importance of war weight does not imply that. It would kill the game (for the war part, that is), as it would match a 10xTH11 with a 10XTH9 because of similar war logs, which would not be fun for either. Town hall level will always need to be an important factor, preferably the main factor.

I hope they scrap war weights all together, too many people are caught up and obsessed by it, it makes people to scared to drop or upgrade defences because of it, just seems like a weird way of playing. Seems like a cancer that plagues the war scene that needs to be got rid of, and then everyone can drop there defences and we can all have some fun against equal bases..

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Originally Posted by TheGame1

I hope they scrap war weights all together, too many people are caught up and obsessed by it, it makes people to scared to drop or upgrade defences because of it, just seems like a weird way of playing. Seems like a cancer that plagues the war scene that needs to be got rid of, and then everyone can drop there defences and we can all have some fun against equal bases..

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It's a nessasary evil. Or else the clans with the highest th11's will always win & any lower TH won't even find a clan... Lower the TH... More the undesirability

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Originally Posted by Mico11813

CWL, NDL, MCLW absolutely do rely on war weight. Their breakdowns for each townhall are matched with their opponent so neither clan has a defensive/offensive advantage.

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This isn’t exactly true... I am the cwl rep for an alliance of multiple clans so I set up our rosters and negotiate weekly breakdowns with our opponents. Cwl has set and an optional breakdown for each of its divisions. For example: 2/6/17, which is two th11s, six th10s, and 17 th9s. Th11s can be any weight provided they have every available defense/trap/troop/hero. The same goes for th9. So basically every clan in cwl has all max th11s and th9s in their lineup (you’ll occasionally see a slightly less than max th9 at the bottom of a roster from time to time but it’s extremely rare). Th10 is different... th10 has three tiers. The tiers basically cover 87K (tier 1), 88K (tier 2), 89K-90K (tier 3). Just like th11 & 9, th10 must have every available defense, etc. to be eligible for cwl. In my example above (2/6/17), the six th10s must include one Tier 1, two Tier 2s, and the remaining four can be Tier 3s. A clan is allowed to play with six tier 1s, but just like th11 or th9, that would put you at an extreme disadvantage. So hopefully this answers anyone’s questions about how cwl actually works roster/war weight wise and whether they allow engineered accounts (definitely NO). Lol

As far as we know, TH is not a factor at all. Now Darian did say they are trying to match TH to TH in wars now. That would explain why people are going three days with no match on those really engineered roasters.

At first it would mean some very poor matches. We just won another war and that gives us 29 wars without a loss. If war weight was to go away, we would drop like a rock for a long time. I agree, no fun but eventually we would fall to a place where we could be competitive and we would also upgrade and stop telling TH10s "We don't war with TH10s."

There would be some massive pain at first but that would subside. Would people quit? People quit because of just about any major update.

Again, I don't want them to do it but I think it is likely.

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Originally Posted by LordSk

They will never just match on war logs. Removing the importance of war weight does not imply that. It would kill the game (for the war part, that is), as it would match a 10xTH11 with a 10XTH9 because of similar war logs, which would not be fun for either. Town hall level will always need to be an important factor, preferably the main factor.

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Hard for me to follow. :)

But, I mean it would be obvious that at some point, war weight cannot be a factor at all. The top two clans in the final war can't have war weight as a factor. :)

I did not know there were divisions. But it's not divisions based on town halls a clan has, right? It's more of a random division to provide organization?

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Originally Posted by RoosterCoC

This isn’t exactly true... I am the cwl rep for an alliance of multiple clans so I set up our rosters and negotiate weekly breakdowns with our opponents. Cwl has set and an optional breakdown for each of its divisions. For example: 2/6/17, which is two th11s, six th10s, and 17 th9s. Th11s can be any weight provided they have every available defense/trap/troop/hero. The same goes for th9. So basically every clan in cwl has all max th11s and th9s in their lineup (you’ll occasionally see a slightly less than max th9 at the bottom of a roster from time to time but it’s extremely rare). Th10 is different... th10 has three tiers. The tiers basically cover 87K (tier 1), 88K (tier 2), 89K-90K (tier 3). Just like th11 & 9, th10 must have every available defense, etc. to be eligible for cwl. In my example above (2/6/17), the six th10s must include one Tier 1, two Tier 2s, and the remaining four can be Tier 3s. A clan is allowed to play with six tier 1s, but just like th11 or th9, that would put you at an extreme disadvantage. So hopefully this answers anyone’s questions about how cwl actually works roster/war weight wise and whether they allow engineered accounts (definitely NO). Lol

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That's right, those clans with the strongest troops and defense will be at the top. The wars will eventually become solely based on skill and power. Seems to me they way a war should be determined. No?

The Powell doctrine was something like use overwhelming force. It doesn't include have the weakest tanks and planes possible so we have an advantage. That makes no sense but it has made sense in CoC.

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Originally Posted by SpartanDoc

It's a nessasary evil. Or else the clans with the highest th11's will always win & any lower TH won't even find a clan... Lower the TH... More the undesirability

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That's a bit simplified but you are not entirely wrong. Afraid to drop defenses is certainly happening. It is also a mistake. It will get you matched to engineers and if you are not engineered, you certainly don't want that. If you are engineered, you hope that you'll match to non-engineered but that rarely happens any longer.

Not dropping all defenses is no longer a good strategy. Now, not maxing them still works pretty well.

I will not max any base because of war weight, not until I am ready to go to the next TH level. It's the worst thing you can do in war right now. Many don't get that but I've never been more certain of anything. Do not max your base until you are ready to go to the next TH if you are a warrior. If you're a farmer, sure max everything and hold on to your loot.

You're not wrong, many are afraid to drop defenses but that's also a huge mistake. Drop, just don't max. :P Unless you like engineering and want to try to out engineer others. I can see the challenge in that too. It's not for me but not maxing my defenses could be considered mild engineering.

For example, I have a FULLY maxed TH9 EXCEPT I have level 2 xbows and unless I got to TH10 they will stay at level 2. We now have 29 wars without a loss. It works well.

We don't see the massive engineers doing what we are doing. In our prior war, we did get engineers but they just had a TH9 at the bottom and a week one at their bottom 9s. That made it easy to kill our TH8s but that's all it did. We will kill almost any TH8 with our 8s so that doesn't hurt us and ends up taking their two extra TH9s out of the war. They are too weak to be a threat to our TH9s. So what if they kill our TH8s, we killed theirs too and our 9s attacked only 9s.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheGame1

I hope they scrap war weights all together, too many people are caught up and obsessed by it, it makes people to scared to drop or upgrade defences because of it, just seems like a weird way of playing. Seems like a cancer that plagues the war scene that needs to be got rid of, and then everyone can drop there defences and we can all have some fun against equal bases..

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I’m still not getting it.

If this game was about racing cars surely you would want to be racing Formula 1 but you seem happy with winning at Formula 3.

If if this was about racing horses then surely you would want to enter the prestigious races but you seem happy winning the Donkey Derby.

Wow, how did that happen? You quoted a post from a different thread. Did you copy and past and get on the wrong thread? I'm not complaining just confused :)

He won't be answering you, check his status. :)

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Originally Posted by Rst

I’m still not getting it.

If this game was about racing cars surely you would want to be racing Formula 1 but you seem happy with winning at Formula 3.

If if this was about racing horses then surely you would want to enter the prestigious races but you seem happy winning the Donkey Derby.

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Originally Posted by StormHeart

Wow, how did that happen? You quoted a post from a different thread. Did you copy and past and get on the wrong thread? I'm not complaining just confused :)

He won't be answering you, check his status. :)

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errr.... that wasn’t a quote but you may want to check out the original thread for some light relief

They can't and they won't.

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Originally Posted by StormHeart

The air is wonderful for a permabase up to this point. It's a very good strategy for war too.

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Interesting read this thread, I've quite enjoyed it. I would just be a little careful with generalisations like the above, because it's not absolutely true.
For slightly manicured TH9's I think it may still be viable, but not for multi fully max TH9's, and certainly not for Max TH10's. In fact, since July last year, being a big TH10 was a terrible place to be, as you would draw decent TH11's consistently.
Adding just lvl3 Bowlers and a lvl5 Warden to a TH10 makes a huge difference.
However, to be fair more recently this lack of TH11 parity seems to have diluted.

As for the future? .....I'm really not sure, but my gut says that TH12 is coming, and you won't be able to upgrade to TH12 unless you've built all your TH11 defences (ala Builder Base). Of course I could be completely wrong.

Nice thread!:)

Thanks!

I was wondering how come none of the game specialist has posted on this thread. You guys are usually all over the place. :)

I think you missed some key points I made, several places in this thread. DO NOT MAX A PERMABASE. :)

I have level 30 Royals on my fully maxed TH9 EXCEPT I still have level 2 xbows. All of our TH9s have level 2 xbows. One might still have level 1 but it still has Royals under 20.

Maxing a base lower than 11 might not hurt so badly if you have a large clan with high THs at the top. We are warring with only 9s and 8s. 10vs10. So a max base would be terrible.

We had one fully maxed TH9 but he quit the the game. That's when our long streak without a loss started. We have just won war number 29 without a loss. The war win streak is only 11 because of two ties. I wouldn't take a max TH9 to war with our current lineup. I would advise them to go to TH10.

But they way I have a permabase, the air is wonderful :)

I don't think 12 is coming in the next 30 days but like you said, I too have been wrong many times. Probably wrong again. I'm almost always wrong about updates. :P I think TH12 will be at the end of the year and I don't think you will be required to build all your defenses when it does come.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skrags

Interesting read this thread, I've quite enjoyed it. I would just be a little careful with generalisations like the above, because it's not absolutely true.
For slightly manicured TH9's I think it may still be viable, but not for multi fully max TH9's, and certainly not for Max TH10's. In fact, since July last year, being a big TH10 was a terrible place to be, as you would draw decent TH11's consistently.
Adding just lvl3 Bowlers and a lvl5 Warden to a TH10 makes a huge difference.
However, to be fair more recently this lack of TH11 parity seems to have diluted.

As for the future? .....I'm really not sure, but my gut says that TH12 is coming, and you won't be able to upgrade to TH12 unless you've built all your TH11 defences (ala Builder Base). Of course I could be completely wrong.

Nice thread!:)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by StormHeart

Thanks!

I was wondering how come none of the game specialist has posted on this thread. You guys are usually all over the place. :)

I think you missed some key points I made, several places in this thread. DO NOT MAX A PERMABASE. :)

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You're welcome, and yes I did gloss over (and miss) your specific base progressions with lvl 2 Xbows. My apologies!!!:thumbsup:
Your wins make more sense now, congrats! When I read Perma TH9, I assume perma Max! My bad.:cool:

p.s. Just for info, my mini TH9 has level 3 Xbows, but no Bomb Tower and only 3 Mortars. It weighs 66k. :)

Nothing to apologize for. :) Thanks again. We got lucky in our last war, they had us beat but didn't one of their 9s never showed up. Thanks for the gift. I really want to get to 30 because it seems like a magical number. HAHA :)

Most people think that maxing is good. Running small wars you can learn a lot. We switched to them due to engineering.

Yeah, maxing a permabase is a very bad idea in my mind.

It was about two years ago when someone in the clan I was in said "Are we doing something wrong?" We kept getting a lot more TH9s in war than what we were taking. Three TH8s were mirrored vs TH9s. I know it's the overall weight. But it kept happening for about a month. I don't know, it was two years ago. Our three max TH8s were really frustrated. Our TH9s could easily take them out but the 8s were running out of viable attacks early on.

Back then, I never did understand what was wrong. But now I know. Because of being a clan leader and looking more closely at our matches, I came to understand those two max Th8s we were taking were a problem. They belonged to me and my GF so it wasn't hard to get them out of war. I took TH7s to eight and took those two out. Wars matching got much better after that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skrags

You're welcome, and yes I did gloss over (and miss) your specific base progressions with lvl 2 Xbows. My apologies!!!:thumbsup:
Your wins make more sense now, congrats! When I read Perma TH9, I assume perma Max! My bad.:cool:

p.s. Just for info, my mini TH9 has level 3 Xbows, but no Bomb Tower and only 3 Mortars. It weighs 66k. :)

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Originally Posted by StormHeart

Hard for me to follow. :)

But, I mean it would be obvious that at some point, war weight cannot be a factor at all. The top two clans in the final war can't have war weight as a factor. :)

I did not know there were divisions. But it's not divisions based on town halls a clan has, right? It's more of a random division to provide organization?

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There are six divisions within cwl. They are mainly based on roster size and breakdown (ranging from 25v25 - 50v50), but the top division “Invite” is also filled with the league’s best clans. Btw, I am 100% behind the idea of completely removing war weight and basing weight on the town hall only. It would be a bit extreme at first but would solve so many issues long term.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by StormHeart

Nothing to apologize for. :) Thanks again. We got lucky in our last war, they had us beat but didn't one of their 9s never showed up. Thanks for the gift. I really want to get to 30 because it seems like a magical number. HAHA :)

Most people think that maxing is good. Running small wars you can learn a lot. We switched to them due to engineering.

Yeah, maxing a permabase is a very bad idea in my mind.

It was about two years ago when someone in the clan I was in said "Are we doing something wrong?" We kept getting a lot more TH9s in war than what we were taking. The TH8s were mirrored vs TH8s. I know it's the overall weight. But it kept happening for about a month. I don't know, it was two years ago. Our three max TH8s were really frustrated. Our TH9s could easily take them out but the 8s were running out of viable attacks early on.

Back then, I never did understand what was wrong. But now I know. Because of being a clan leader and looking more closely at our matches, I came to understand those two max Th8s we were taking were a problem. They belonged to me and my GF so it wasn't hard to get them out of war. I took TH7s to eight and took those two out. Wars matching got much better after that.

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This is a very interesting thread. However, I think it's very much a niche issue. Like your comment about maxing being a bad thing. For your specific instance, yeah it's bad. However, in more casual wars, having heavy anchors at each th level has been working for us. Rushed, not carefully planned engineers, clans that we seem to draw have a hard time dipping on us. Maybe supercel has more data than I do but I can't see that perma max bases would be a huge thing.

I would agree it depends on the situation.

We don't get engineers, well we sometimes but rarely, get engineered Th9s that can kill our TH8s. That's it. Engineers are easy to avoid by adding all defenses and keeping a tight range of bases. The last time we got that engineered nine I took a TH7 because we didn't have enough to war with. I could have taken an 8 but we keep ending up with one TH9 less than the other side has. My adding the TH7 just got us two more 9s than we took. Just one war but tight range of bases works best. Some clans can't do that though.

I think a max base is always a bad thing at TH8 or above. Many clans can compensate for it with their other bases. I'd rather not compensate for it. The larger the war gets though, the less damage it does. In a 20vs20 or higher, a max Th8 wouldn't hurt too much. In a 10vs10 war it hurts a lot.

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Originally Posted by Piper139

This is a very interesting thread. However, I think it's very much a niche issue. Like your comment about maxing being a bad thing. For your specific instance, yeah it's bad. However, in more casual wars, having heavy anchors at each th level has been working for us. Rushed, not carefully planned engineers, clans that we seem to draw have a hard time dipping on us. Maybe supercel has more data than I do but I can't see that perma max bases would be a huge thing.

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I would prefer TH only myself but I think there would have to be some leeway in that. Otherwise, might never get a match.

That could happen. Recalling Darian's comment that they are already trying to match TH to TH. Most of us, including myself, missed that comment by Darian but Tank Sintra (spelling) pointed it out a couple of weeks ago. They are already trying to do that, at least to some extent. I don't think they could ever do it that way exclusively. Not exact matches.

I've usually only seen the semi-finals and finals in CWL wars so I just see the top clans.

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Originally Posted by RoosterCoC

There are six divisions within cwl. They are mainly based on roster size and breakdown (ranging from 25v25 - 50v50), but the top division “Invite” is also filled with the league’s best clans. Btw, I am 100% behind the idea of completely removing war weight and basing weight on the town hall only. It would be a bit extreme at first but would solve so many issues long term.

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