Builder Timing Bug? INFLATED

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Originally Posted by Styper

So you are saying that taking 1.5 years to fix an issue that is clearly bothering people is OK in your book? How about scamming people, is that OK too?



Let's not dwell in speculations then. What is your assessment on taking 1.5 years to resolve a matter that is potentially harming your customers? Incompetence?

Also, if you can't realize that this bug can generate revenue for them, then you are the one who is biased.

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I do not need to speculate on the reasoning behind the bug going unfixed. The reasoning has been clearly stated by SuperSteve below. Do not get hung up on the word critical as many do for it has a different meaning in regards to software bugs which confused many people. Critical refers to various aspects including its impact on the end users ability to use the program and it's impact on users continuing to use the program, neither of which are critically affected.

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Originally Posted by SuperSteve[Supercell]

This is not a one sided discussion as I have been reading your comments. However, there is currently no update to this. This remains an outstanding bug and we continue to treat it as such. We still feel this is not critical and therefore there is no imminent fix on the way. It belongs in Bugs subforum as it is, indeed, a bug. This is not moving, nor is it being stickied. We apply the same forum rules to all posts. We don't need more than one thread to discuss this issue.

I find your suggestion that we want to hide this bug from sight or minimize the amount of people who see it pretty misguided, especially when you look at the OP of this thread.

I will continue to provide updates when there are updates, but there's not much I can add to this discussion at this time.

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Originally Posted by SuperSteve[Supercell]

As I've stated before the Time Lag bug would require a hugely significant amount of time to fix as it is a tough problem to resolve. Fixing a few pixels on a Wizard Tower is minor bug and easily fixable.

I'll continue to provide updates when there are updates. Attacking SC with accusations of corporate greed, etc. is not very productive, and will do absolutely nothing whatsoever to get this bug addressed with the amount of attention you believe it deserves. This thread should be reserved for educating people about the bug and what SC's current stance is on it. You've all done a great job of that so far.

Bashing SC, discussing PMs with mods, etc., will only serve to get this thread closed, once again, and not reopened this time. I am glad to see that you all feel so passionate about this issue. I do as well, and that is why I continue to keep an eye on this thread.

Thanks for your time and for understanding my stance on this.

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Originally Posted by superclash99

Exactly, like the gem glitch which only affected 0.001% of the players, as Daddy stated. They lose money, suddenly Supercell works "nonstop" - they gain money: "Oh, it's been over one and a half years too diffucult to fix". As if fixing the time lag was science's greatest breaktrough, LOL.



Unless you don't play CoC anymore, and although maybe not as significant as building and upgrade times, don't forget your Queen's and King's resting time, your CC request time, your troops training time and all your mines' and drills' collection times, all afected by the time lag "bug". But like I said, maybe not as significant as a 14d upgrade.

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The way you distort facts, supply disinformation and imply your own meaning to unrelated facts is quite astonishing. Let the reader not forget you have in the past been shown to edit SuperSteve's quotes in an effort to paint SC in a bad light and to a point where they meant something unintended that supported your views.


The gem glitch affected every player based on the arguments of the players that it devalued thier efforts put into the game. There are two aspects to the gem glitch 1) the original which allowed unlimited gems and 2) the result of that which is maxed out villages. The bug itself was fixed in a short ammount of time as it was likely not a complicated fix,we are talking hours here which is where the .0001% comes from, the time frame in which it was fixed is why the number is so small and it surely would've grown much larger had the bug persisted. The gem bug cannot be compared to the time bug as they are completely different. Furthermore SC stated there would not have been a rollback of villages if it was not for the opinion of its players that they would be harmed by these new maxed out villages. They rolled back villages for the players and not themselves.



http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-v65WYXrL1O...inion+copy.jpg

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Originally Posted by Franchise

While I do not blame anyone, including Steve (OP), who happens to be a community "face" for supercell, I do believe it to be a slap in the face for them to start this thread and close all others regarding a "bug" that they clearly have no intentions to "fix" (No acknowledgment of such, no updates, proof of same "bug" in other SC games".) I mean, it is as if they said "here ya go, now shut up about it throughout the rest of the forum since it is never going away. DEAL WITH IT or cry about it HERE. So I will cry, for a bit then be on my way. Why the "time bug" bothers me and so many others WHO KNOW ABOUT IT.

The Bottom Line. Money.
Let us say there are a total of 100 buildings to upgrade in COC. Let's just say. Each of them has 2 hours added onto them by the "bug". That is 200 hours which translates to 1164 gems or 9.99USD.

Sure, 10 bucks seems forgettable, but lets not forget this.....

It adds up to significantly more than 10$ (more than 100 buildings/upgrades) and varies depending on player activity, with the more active players being hit the hardest. That is the first insult. Rewarding those who play most.....with the longer builds. Thanks. Thoughtful. But keeping to the example, lets stick to the 10$. Even if you decide not to spend that 10$ in cash on gems, you are losing it's value in time. And do not be mistaken, that is the most valuable currency IN THIS GAME and arguably in life (dramatic I know, but that's me). So even if you don't buy gems to finish off that 200 hours, but say buy them to boost barracks, they have been devalued. (There is that word everyone threw around during the infamous GEM BUG!) They just are not worth what you spent on them. Plain and simple.

Let us look into why they would let this go on for so long without so much as an update. well...

10$(200 hours) x 10 million ( modest estimation of active player base) = $100 Million or 2 Billion hours. WOW.


The Gem bug was estimated (through various sources, none of them supercell I don't think) to have been something of a hit in the range of the 100 thousands for supercell (fraudulent gems spent) and affected something like 0.0something % of the player base for a short period of time. The outrage I saw over that claiming devaluation is LAUGHABLE. LAUGHABLE. Did anyone reading get that? LAUGHABLE when compared to the likes of this monumental cash syphon that is known to us as the "TIME LAG BUG" which affects THE ENTIRE player base AS LONG AS THEY ACTIVELY PLAY THE GAME SINCE DAY ONE.

You want to talk about devaluing something? Let's raise the stakes a little bit? From about 100k to 100M. Or was the TRUE issue with the gem bug and why it was such an outrage on the forum was because "some of us got shiny big toys and most of us didn't"? Because let me tell you, the stink for this? Not nearly as foul.

My two cents.

Disclaimers
I am not a Mathematician
Not a lawyer
Not a developer
Not a disgruntled SC employee
DO NOT have inside info to the inner workings of SC
I very much enjoy playing COC and will continue to do so until I do not.
I know that the gems I purchase are not worth what I pay for them and I do it anyway. (Because see above)

Just a guy with some common sense and an opinion.


Some follow up questions for the forums related to this
1. Any opinions on this "bug" one way or the other from any notable mods? Link me please
2. Likewise for any supercell employees?
3. Likewise for any prominent Clash Tubers? More specifically ones who were invited to SC.
4. Is the petition or movement "going anywhere".
5. What was the last official statement (prior to this thread) on this from SC?
6. It has been reported in Heyday and Boom beach as well, yet some still call it a bug? Why?

A software bug is an error, flaw, failure, or fault in a computer program or system that causes it to produce an incorrect or unexpected result, or to behave in unintended ways.

Nothing about this says UNEXPECTED or UNINTENDED to me at all. shrug.

Thanks if you read this likely redundant post. Double thanks if you answer one of my questions! I must go. My clan needs me.

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I liked your thoughts on this, especially the last part regarding labeling the time lag as a bug, that's why I call it the time lag "bug". It's pretty clear now that it's a hidden feature (and against the developer guidelines of Apple and Google) but Supercell of course won't admit this. So you're left to believe what they say (as absurd as the excuses may sound) but what is more absurd are the ones that continue defending the time lag. That's why I love the ignore list feature, you never have to read any more nonsense again (except when these people are getting quoted, but when that happens they are getting burnt badly, so I do not mind)

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Originally Posted by Coathanger

I do not need to speculate on the reasoning behind the bug going unfixed. The reasoning has been clearly stated by SuperSteve below. Do not get hung up on the word critical as many do for it has a different meaning in regards to software bugs which confused many people. Critical refers to various aspects including its impact on the end users ability to use the program and it's impact on users continuing to use the program, neither of which are critically affected.

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Let's talk about these two words in bold, "Steve has CLEARLY stated", stated what? That the bug is hard? How does he knows so if they haven't even tried to fix is as stated by himself that "it would be too hard", meaning, "we're not even going to bother so move along".
I've been wondering myself too, is this guy even a developer? At least when I see bugs that appear hard the only sentiment in me is "challenge accepted", that's also my job, fixing bugs that the innovation team missed, have you ever heard of this concept? Well, we have TWO teams where one creates stuff and one fixes new and old stuff that get reported as broken. But of course, the almighty SC doesn't needs this according to the fanboys who come here to comment like they know squat about software development.
Someone sarcastically said that there was only one guy coding for SC, I'm actually starting to believe that.

Now about the critical, well, even if it isn't critical, I don't think you people grasp the concept of time, 1.5 years is enough time to code this game 3 times over. What you should get is that this bug is not even minimal in their book, they really don't care or are liking the concept of free money, they've even stopped posting here showing two other awesome qualities of theirs which is transparency and great customer support.

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Originally Posted by Franchise

Some follow up questions for the forums related to this
1. Any opinions on this "bug" one way or the other from any notable mods? Link me please
2. Likewise for any supercell employees?
3. Likewise for any prominent Clash Tubers? More specifically ones who were invited to SC.
4. Is the petition or movement "going anywhere".
5. What was the last official statement (prior to this thread) on this from SC?
6. It has been reported in Heyday and Boom beach as well, yet some still call it a bug? Why?

A software bug is an error, flaw, failure, or fault in a computer program or system that causes it to produce an incorrect or unexpected result, or to behave in unintended ways.

Nothing about this says UNEXPECTED or UNINTENDED to me at all. shrug.

Thanks if you read this likely redundant post. Double thanks if you answer one of my questions! I must go. My clan needs me.

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The following quotes from employees and mods show it is not intentional.

6. It has been reported in Heyday and Boom beach as well, yet some still call it a bug? Why?
It is present in the other games. TMK there has been no official reason or explanation of why. It is likely Supercell is using the code that causes the bug in all their games. They could have essentially cannibalized portions to save on the time spent on new code. Or it could also be related to the hardware or security measures they use in the games. Or other reasons.

1. Any opinions on this "bug" one way or the other from any notable mods? Link me please
3. Likewise for any prominent Clash Tubers? More specifically ones who were invited to SC. Daddy=Both

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Originally Posted by Daddy

So,

I discussed this issue in depth with SC when I was over there, actually to be specific I discussed it while devouring a rather excellent Reindeer - so you could say because of this Christmas is going to be slightly different now Rudolph is dead - I hope you are feeling guilty :)

This is a REALLY difficult one to solve, basically whenever the base is disrupted by something like a defence or if you are attacking it messes with the timing, I can't go into any more detail partly because I didn't understand it fully (there was wine involved) and partly because it's not public knowledge how it works. What I suggested would be to look at the timing differential and then compensate - i.e. if on average it's causing the timer to end 10% too late then adjust the time by that % - it's not a perfect fix but it would ease people's pain a LOT.

They felt that was a good idea - but I'm not the one developing the game so I can't promise anything - but I can promise that next time i'm with them i'll be raising it.

I do promise you that it's not:

a) a conspiracy to make you buy gems
b) any of the other conspiracies

It's just a really tricky one that causes issues for those who notice it, and none whatsoever to those who don't.

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Originally Posted by Kolonistje1

Yes there would still be an objection namely clutter. There are other topics which would make better sticky material.


There is no need for a cover up since we aren't hiding anything. We are allowing and always have allowed discussion on the mattere haven't we ? And we have responded to it on several occasions haven't we ? If anything with all discusions people are making up more and more conspiracy theories about the whole thing getting further and further from the issue and the point here.


I think you're reading much more in my words then I actually said. It affects some players slightly more then others it's not attached to certain villages in particular it can happen and does happen to players sometimes more then other times but can happen to everyone.


However it's a key issue only because you decided it's a key issue just like a 1-issue politician. To me personally as a player who does get affected by this every now and then i have to say it really doesn't bother me. Every now and then i just let a builder finish during the night when i sleep and start the upgrade the next morning. It's only a couple of hours or I use the x days and 12 hours upgrade for the BK and AQ to get my builder back on a schedule which suits me better. That way you're good to go for many upgrades before the builder starts finishing really late.

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Originally Posted by Kolonistje1

I never said the way I solve this problem was a fix. It's a workaround and sometimes in life you just need to adapt to the hand you're dealt. For me it's much easier then let a bug like this take over. It's a game after all. Besides having a builder go idle for about 6 hours in a night to have it on an acceptable schedule for the next 6-10 builds really isnt all that much time. Its not like you need to do this every build.

As for losing loot.. Since storage raiding is capped it doesnt matter whether your storages are maxed or just have a million there are those occasions where you have much more then you need.

As already stated several times by several people if this were easy to fix it would have been fixed by now but it's not. That doesnt mean it won't get fixed but in the mean time we got to make the best of what we got that's why I use my workaround until it is fixed. I'd would like to see it fixed also but can't wave a magic wand. Now I will go fix my own idle builder.

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Originally Posted by twister

*closed Thread post#50

Hi Folks,

Thank you all so much for the continued verification of times being off. We've always known there was some sort of issue, but have gone through so many theories as to the cause, that having some tangible evidence is awesome!

This will help the team get closer to the cause and narrow their game code search. Until they find where the 13 minutes a day is getting added, please continue to post your findings showing start/stop times and what buildings or upgrades are involved. If we can narrow down if it's every upgrade, only certain buildings, etc it can help them hone in on where the issue lies.

I can put your uneasiness to rest on two specific issues here though.

1) There is absolutely nothing intentional going on to add time. I am hoping it is a simple value or mathematical calculation happening incorrectly.

2) Once the exact cause is identified, as long as it's possible to fix (which I'm 99.9% sure it will be) they will update the code to calculate time as intended.

So... thanks again for your help with this, it is a great example of what a community forum can accomplish within the community. Hopefully it can be resolved quickly.

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Originally Posted by zachUVA

*closed thread post #21

Well, hopefully if it is fixable they will fix it, and if it isnt they will tell us so.

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2. Likewise for any supercell employees?
5. What was the last official statement (prior to this thread) on this from SC?

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Originally Posted by SuperSteveSupercell

*closed thread post #32

Are you playing this game on more than one device? I've noticed that sometimes the timers get thrown off when I switch between my iPad and iPhone frequently. That's probably the cause of this type of behavior. My only recommendation would be to always force quit your game on one device when you are going to switch over to the other.

I can guarantee you this isn't deliberate, but I can't guarantee there isn't some bug here.

We'll keep an eye on this. :rolleyes:

-Steve

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Originally Posted by SuperSteveSupercell

*closed thread post #113

a) I'll send you a PM so I can get your email and look up your ticket. Just because you didn't get a number doesn't mean it's not being dealt with! Promise! Sorry.

b) This issue has been known for quite some time. Part of the problem was fixed in the last update. It's essentially a discrepancy in how time is counted. It's a pretty tough one to fix, for reasons I'll update later once I get a better description. We do want to fix it eventually, but we are not currently addressing it for the next update, unfortunately. I will update this thread if I have more information in the future... now... about that ticket... look out for a PM!

Also keep in mind that any time discrepancy greater than one hour is usually a display issue... i.e. a 5 day upgrade may show 7 days but will finish in 5 days.

-Steve

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Originally Posted by SuperSteve[Supercell]

We have a fix in place for the upcoming update that will cover some to most of these cases. It does not fully fix the issue, but it will help in a lot of these cases.

Cheers and Clash On,

Steve

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Originally Posted by SuperSteve[Supercell]

Yes, it's a pretty serious problem, and we hope we can fix it. It would be quite a big task because of the depth of it. It's definitely on the list, and pretty high up it.

Gonna close this thread, since the discussion on this one definitely belongs in the bugs section.

Thanks,

Steve

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Originally Posted by Styper

Let's talk about these two words in bold, "Steve has CLEARLY stated", stated what? That the bug is hard? How does he knows so if they haven't even tried to fix is as stated by himself that "it would be too hard", meaning, "we're not even going to bother so move along".
I've been wondering myself too, is this guy even a developer? At least when I see bugs that appear hard the only sentiment in me is "challenge accepted", that's also my job, fixing bugs that the innovation team missed, have you ever heard of this concept? Well, we have TWO teams where one creates stuff and one fixes new and old stuff that get reported as broken. But of course, the almighty SC doesn't needs this according to the fanboys who come here to comment like they know squat about software development.
Someone sarcastically said that there was only one guy coding for SC, I'm actually starting to believe that.

Now about the critical, well, even if it isn't critical, I don't think you people grasp the concept of time, 1.5 years is enough time to code this game 3 times over. What you should get is that this bug is not even minimal in their book, they really don't care or are liking the concept of free money, they've even stopped posting here showing two other awesome qualities of theirs which is transparency and great customer support.

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Thanks for your misguided opinion. When you delve into the cause and code behind the bug rather than applying what you have encountered maybe your opinion will mean something. Putting words in peoples mouths helps show the bias present so please continue, it helps speak against your opinion to the reasonable.

In the case of software bugs, "Severity" can be an attempt to categorize the symptom or actual behavior of the bug. Severity levels are not standardized and are decided by each software producer, if they are even used. For example, bug severity levels might be "crash or hang", "no workaround" (meaning there is no way the customer can accomplish a given task), "has workaround" (meaning there is a way for the user to recover and accomplish the task), "UI" or "visual defect" (for example, a missing image or displaced button or form element), or "documentation error". Some software publishers use more qualified severities such as "critical", "high", "low," "blocker," or "trivial".^[18] The severity of a bug may be a separate category to its priority for fixing, and the two may be quantified and managed separately. For example, if a flaw is found in an application which causes it to crash, yet the crash is so rare and takes, say, ten extremely unusual or unlikely steps to produce it, management may set its priority as "low" or even "will not fix." How the priority for fixing is used is decided internally by each software producer. Priorities are sometimes numerical and sometimes words, such "critical," "high," "low" or "deferred"; note that these can be similar or even identical to severity ratings when looking at different software producers. For example, a software company may decide that priority 1 bugs are always to be fixed for the next release, whereas "5" could mean its fix is put off – sometimes indefinitely.
A software publisher may opt not to fix a particular bug for a number of reasons, including:

• A deadline must be met and priorities are such that all but those above a certain severity are fixed for the current software release.
• The bug is already fixed in an upcoming release, and it is not serious enough to warrant an immediate update or patch
• The changes to the code required to fix the bug are too costly, will take too long for the current release, or affect too many other areas of the software.
• Users may be relying on the undocumented, buggy behavior; it may introduce a breaking change.
• The problem is in an area which will be obsolete with an upcoming release; fixing it is unnecessary.
• It's "not a bug". A misunderstanding has arisen between expected and perceived behavior, when such misunderstanding is not due to confusion arising from design flaws, or faulty documentation.

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Originally Posted by SuperSteve[Supercell]

Yes, it's a pretty serious problem, and we hope we can fix it. It would be quite a big task because of the depth of it. It's definitely on the list, and pretty high up it.

Gonna close this thread, since the discussion on this one definitely belongs in the bugs section.

Thanks,

Steve

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Originally Posted by SuperSteve[Supercell]

As I've stated before the Time Lag bug would require a hugely significant amount of time to fix as it is a tough problem to resolve. Fixing a few pixels on a Wizard Tower is minor bug and easily fixable.

I'll continue to provide updates when there are updates. Attacking SC with accusations of corporate greed, etc. is not very productive, and will do absolutely nothing whatsoever to get this bug addressed with the amount of attention you believe it deserves. This thread should be reserved for educating people about the bug and what SC's current stance is on it. You've all done a great job of that so far.

Bashing SC, discussing PMs with mods, etc., will only serve to get this thread closed, once again, and not reopened this time. I am glad to see that you all feel so passionate about this issue. I do as well, and that is why I continue to keep an eye on this thread.

Thanks for your time and for understanding my stance on this.

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There is two possible reasons, its either they don't want to fix it or they don't know how to. Now let me tell you something, Supercell mainly employs game designing veterans, in one word one of the best people out there. So it is kinda suspicious that it's taking them a year and a half to sort it out. Don't get me wrong, maybe they don't know how to fix it, but there is always a solution to a problem. Hire someone who can fix it!

As coathanger has stated, SC is aware of this. They've said its hard and it would take a fair bit of time to sort it out. Alright, its been 16 month already, don't you think that during those 16 months they could have hired a team to look over it and see what the problem is? They could have, but they didn't. They didn't do it because it would cost them money, paying for that team to work on the issue and also they would lose the revenue they make from that bug.

Don't get me wrong, i dont really care about this since i gave up on supercell a while ago, however i've decided to fight for whats right for my fellow clashers so they can enjoy this game more. I am not an expert when it comes to game developing but i have seen this similar scenario several times in which the company makes profit of the issue and is not willing to fix it because it will equal to less profit for them. Instead they create a thread like this, get members to discuss whats right and whats wrong, comment couple of times stating that its hard to resolve an issue and that it has been on their top priority list for over a year.

Still wondering why they are not fixing it ? lol
I wanna ask everyone a simple question that will clarify and end this thread.
will you take your chicken to the doctor if it is laying golden eggs ????
i hope you got my point and I'm sure that this will answer every question in this thread.
BTW i am a programmer and client server sync is a serious problem but this does not mean that it has no solution. at least it can be optimized to minimize the lag between the client and the server to nothing more than couple of seconds not 2 hours or more like what is happening now.
People lets be real. after playing this game for almost a year, super-cell managed to increase its profit in lots of ways by some minor modifications through which they claim it is for the users sake. do you believe it ?
What about paying 50% if you cancel an upgrade ?
Why walls needs a builder ?
Why are you removing inactive and abandoned villages from matchmaking ?
Why war loot barely return 50% of what you pay for your attack ?
Why the lag is so big in upgrades ?
Why you pay gold to find another match (lately you spend 90K gold for next and 90K elixir for troops and spells to find a 100K village if you are lucky )
They want us to pay for resources, for time, for trophies, for heroes, who knows maybe later you'll have to pay to download the app.

Try to be the sheep that waits for the whole cattle to pass and take a look at it... and tell me what you see :)

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Originally Posted by edergham

Still wondering why they are not fixing it ? lol
I wanna ask everyone a simple question that will clarify and end this thread.
will you take your chicken to the doctor if it is laying golden eggs ????
i hope you got my point and I'm sure that this will answer every question in this thread.
BTW i am a programmer and client server sync is a serious problem but this does not mean that it has no solution. at least it can be optimized to minimize the lag between the client and the server to nothing more than couple of seconds not 2 hours or more like what is happening now.
People lets be real. after playing this game for almost a year, super-cell managed to increase its profit in lots of ways by some minor modifications through which they claim it is for the users sake. do you believe it ?
What about paying 50% if you cancel an upgrade ?
Why walls needs a builder ?
Why are you removing inactive and abandoned villages from matchmaking ?
Why war loot barely return 50% of what you pay for your attack ?
Why the lag is so big in upgrades ?
Why you pay gold to find another match (lately you spend 90K gold for next and 90K elixir for troops and spells to find a 100K village if you are lucky )
They want us to pay for resources, for time, for trophies, for heroes, who knows maybe later you'll have to pay to download the app.

Try to be the sheep that waits for the whole cattle to pass and take a look at it... and tell me what you see :)

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$$$$$$$$$$

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Originally Posted by NatsuDragneel

. Now let me tell you something, Supercell mainly employs game designing veterans, in one word one of the best people out there.

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Sorry, but that is very, VERY difficult to believe. Especially after reading this tread:

http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...hing-in-return

Because if it was true (that SC employs the best devs ever) the logical conclusion would be they are scamming their customers....

"Supercell is a company found in 2008 by game developing veterans" this is what the Internet says about SC.

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Originally Posted by NatsuDragneel

"Supercell is a company found in 2008 by game developing veterans" this is what the Internet says about SC.

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Then we got two options:

a) This statement is false (the countless bugs and glitches account for this)

b) These "veterans" knew exactly what they were doing when they incorporated the time lag "bug" in all three Supercell games